Freemasonry and Islam

[Frosty]

(bismillah)

(salam)

Despite what some tinfoil hat sods might believe I don't believe that freemasons are an evil cabal of baby-eaters. An opportunity has presented itself and I was wondering would it be permissible to join? Are there any rulings or writings on this? Thanks in advanced. :)

Edited October 21, 2009 by Frosty

[guest 34193]

wa `alaykum as-salaam,

I would strongly advise against it. I don't mean because of the baby eating, illuminati take over the world thing, but because of other problems. One, freemasonry presents a number of religious and even occultic beliefs to its members. It carries it's own theology, as well as mythology, that is a core part of its initiations and rituals. They'll claim they're not a religion, but really it does sound an awful lot like it is one with deistic beliefs, myths, initiations, hierarchies, ceremonies, etc. Another very incompatible idea between it and Islam so far as I understand it is that to a Freemason, all other Freemasons are his brothers to whom he must give his oath and loyalty to. The problem here is that for us, our loyalty is the the Imam, and it is the believers who are our brothers, not kuffar of some not-so-secret secret society. You can't have double loyalties like that.

[Rohani]

(salam)

yes, if you join them you have left islam! consider their works, i mean doing everything opposite to what Allah has commanded is really evil. just like it looks "Rebellion!" Stay away from Freemasons!

(wasalam)

Edited October 21, 2009 by theunknownpreacher

[Frosty]

wa `alaykum as-salaam,

I would strongly advise against it. I don't mean because of the baby eating, illuminati take over the world thing, but because of other problems. One, freemasonry presents a number of religious and even occultic beliefs to its members. It carries it's own theology, as well as mythology, that is a core part of its initiations and rituals. They'll claim they're not a religion, but really it does sound an awful lot like it is one with deistic beliefs, myths, initiations, hierarchies, ceremonies, etc. Another very incompatible idea between it and Islam so far as I understand it is that to a Freemason, all other Freemasons are his brothers to whom he must give his oath and loyalty to. The problem here is that for us, our loyalty is the the Imam, and it is the believers who are our brothers, not kuffar of some not-so-secret secret society. You can't have double loyalties like that.

I see, I am not well versed though I have read about them. Some of my associates whom I hangout with and converse regularly with happen to be masons and one asked me would I ever consider joining and I said it would be something I would be interested in though I would be hesitant to join considering it could be haram or something. I was however assured that Muslims can be masons and that the Supreme Being to Muslim masons would be Allah (swt) and I haven't seen anything blatantly anti-Islamic as of yet however alligience to the order over the ummah and the Imam does concern me and I shall take this into account. I will try to talk more with my friend.

(salam)

yes, if you join them you have left islam! consider their works, i mean doing everything opposite to what Allah has commanded is really evil. just like it looks "Rebellion!" Stay away from Freemasons!

(wasalam)

Really? Because from what I understand masons do a lot of charity work. Not only that but the Shriners (an associated order) even have hospitals in North America, what might I ask are these evil, sinful works that breaks all the laws of Allah (swt)?

[culturei]

the question why? why joining them?!

would not be bettter to join a respectable or benefitial group... volunteer for good causes?!

[Frosty]

the question why? why joining them?!

Why would you join any club?

would not be bettter to join a respectable or benefitial group... volunteer for good causes?!

Masons to a lot of people in the community are seen as respectable men who do charity work and again I point out that the Shriners whom are masons themselves have hospitals. How much more charitable can you get? Start handing out yipping puppies to all the boys and girls?

Edited October 21, 2009 by Frosty

[culturei]

Why would you join any club?

Masons to a lot of people in the community are seen as respectable men who do charity work and again I point out that the Shriners whom are masons themselves have hospitals. How much more charitable can you get? Start handing out yipping puppies to all the boys and girls?

i don't know... why i should join a club...!! no need... i think insecure people who like to follow a group of people to feel accepted or secure to compensate for their inferiority complex are justified to join secretive groups...

Free Masons .. a charity group?! :)

[JalalAd-DinAli]

i don't know... why i should join a club...!! no need... i think insecure people who like to follow a group of people to feel accepted or secure to compensate for their inferiority complex are justified to join secretive groups...

Umm, you belong to a religion - a group. Are you saying that some how your 'group' is some how more 'real' and 'authentic' than another group? based on what evidence?

Free Masons .. a charity group?! :)

Yes, and they also contribute towards religious groups. A Catholic church in the bay of islands was paid for through the fund raising efforts of the free masons.

[Rohani]

(salam)

even sinners give charity. if you love Allah truly you should consider deeply and stay away from these groups. Islam is the religion of Allah what is better then the religion of Allah? surly nothing is better then the religion of Allah.

(wasalam)

Edited October 22, 2009 by theunknownpreacher

[culturei]

Umm, you belong to a religion - a group. Are you saying that some how your 'group' is some how more 'real' and 'authentic' than another group? based on what evidence?

Yes, and they also contribute towards religious groups. A Catholic church in the bay of islands was paid for through the fund raising efforts of the free masons.

religion is not just a group, nor it is a club... religion is first a belief. if you believe in Islam, you do not need a group leader to accept you .. nor a group leader to banish you... as for evidence.. they are more than what can this thread holds, and discussing it here is off topic

is that called a charity... so ok.. if you love them, then go join them... why asking our advice!

[Irishman]

Two of my uncles were free masons, one still is. The other one died and his wife has been told that if she ever had any problems paying a bill etc..., just inform any of the free masons and it will be taken care of. The uncles have told me the old 'strange' traditions are pretty much gone nowadays, its just a group of like minded people who do things for charity and their own local area. I see now harm in what they do personally.

[guest 34193]

I see now harm in what they do personally.

Don't you call yourself a Catholic? Your church would strongly differ with you on that, condemning the order and membership in it under pain of excommunication. This looks like a very thorough article on Freemasonry (from a Catholic perspective):

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09771a.htm

Something interesting for the brother who started this thread. In terms of what I mentioned about loyalties, see these types of oaths the Freemason takes, quoted in the above:

In view of the fact that the secrets of Masonry are unknown to the bulk of Masons, the oaths of secrecy taken on the Bible are all the more startling and unjustifiable. The oath, for instance, of the first degree is as follows: "I, in the presence of the Great Architect of the Universe, . . . do hereby and hereon solemnly and sincerelyswear , that I will always hide, conceal and never reveal any part or parts, any point or points of the secrets or mysteries of or belonging to Free and Accepted Masons in Masonry which may heretofore have beenknown by, shall now or may at any future time be communicated to me" etc. "These several points I solemnly swear to observe under no less penalty, than to have my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by the root and my body buried in the sands of the sea", "or the more efficient punishment of being branded as a wilfully perjured individual, void of all moral worth". "So help me God", etc.

Similar oaths, but with severer penalties attached, are taken in the advanced degrees. The principle contents of the promises are according to Pike:

Eighteenth degree: "I obligate and pledge myself always to sustain, that it belongs to Masonry to teach the great unsectarian truths, that do not exclusively belong to any religion and acknowledge that I have no right whatever to exact from others the acceptation of any particular interpretation of masonic symbols, that I may attribute to them by the virtue of my personal belief. I obligate and solemnly pledge myself to respect and sustain by all means and under any circumstances Liberty of Speech, Liberty of Thought and Liberty of Conscience in religious and political matters". [143]

Thirtieth Degree: A. — "I solemnly and freely vow obedience to all the laws and regulations of the Order, whose belief will be my belief, I promise obedience to all my regular superiors. . . . I pledge myself to be devoted, soul and body, to the protection of innocence, the vindication of right, the crushing of oppression and the punishment of every infraction against the law of Humanity and of Man's rights . . . never, either by interest or by fear, or even to save my existence, to submit to nor suffer any material despotism, that may enslave or oppress humanity by the usurpation or abuse of power. I vow never to submit to or tolerate any intellectual Despotism, that may pretend to chain or fetter free thought, etc."

B. "I solemnly vow to consecrate my life to the ends of the Order of Knights of Kadosh, and to co-operate most efficaciously by all means prescribed by the constituted authorities of the order to attain them. I solemnly vow and consecrate, to these ends, my words, my power, my strength, my influence, my intelligence and my life. I vow to consider myself henceforward and forever as the Apostle of Truth and of the rights of man."

C. "I vow myself to the utmost to bring due punishment upon the oppressors, the usurpers and the wicked; I pledge myself never to harm a Knight Kadosh, either by word or deed . . .; I vow that if I find him as a foe in the battlefield, I will save his life, when he makes me the Sign of Distress, and that I will free him from prison and confinement upon land or water, even to the risk of my own life or my own liberty. I pledge myself to vindicate right and truth even by might and violence, if necessary and duly ordered by my regular superiors."

D. "I pledge myself to obey without hesitation any order whatever it may be of my regular Superiors in the Order". [144]

Some of the above might sound ok, but underlying it all is absolute loyalty to the brotherhood (of Masons) and total obedience to the order and its superiors. I can't see how a Muslim, a Shi`a at that, could pledge himself to something like this.

[Irishman]

Don't you call yourself a Catholic? Your church would strongly differ with you on that, condemning the order and membership in it under pain of excommunication. This looks like a very thorough article on Freemasonry (from a Catholic perspective):

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09771a.htm

Something interesting for the brother who started this thread. In terms of what I mentioned about loyalties, see these types of oaths the Freemason takes, quoted in the above:

Some of the above might sound ok, but underlying it all is absolute loyalty to the brotherhood (of Masons) and total obedience to the order and its superiors. I can't see how a Muslim, a Shi`a at that, could pledge himself to something like this.

FreeMasons Lodges vary quite a bit. Yes, the Vatican is against it, but they are against the use of condoms and other forms of birth control also, but 99.99% of Catholics ignore this ruling as its not practical.

http://www.ugle.org.uk/what-is-masonry/frequently-asked-questions/

Are you not a religion?

Emphatically not. Freemasonry does not try to replace religion or substitute for it. It deals in a man’s relationship with his fellow man not in a man’s relationship with his God.

Why do some churches not like Freemasonry?

There are elements within churches who misunderstand Freemasonry and its objectives. They confuse secular rituals with religious liturgy. There are many Masons in churches where their leaders have been openly critical of the organisation. Masonry has always actively encouraged its members to be active in their own religion.

Does Freemasonry accept Roman Catholics?

Yes. Four Grand Masters of English Freemasonry have been Roman Catholics. Today there are many Roman Catholic Masons.

[guest 34193]

Yes, the Vatican is against it, but they are against the use of condoms and other forms of birth control also, but 99.99% of Catholics ignore this ruling as its not practical.

So you're saying 99.9% of Catholics are hypocrites to their own religion, only practicing the parts that suit their convenience?

[Irishman]

So you're saying 99.9% of Catholics are hypocrites to their own religion, only practicing the parts that suit their convenience?

We are discussing Freemasonry here, and I just used that as one example of where normal practising Catholic differ in their views of what the Vatican says. Lets not derail this thread. If you want to discuss it in another thread, please feel free.

[labbaik_khamenai]

So you're saying 99.9% of Catholics are hypocrites to their own religion, only practicing the parts that suit their convenience?

(salam)

MACISAAC - you are being a bloody hypocrite to your religion as well.. By not admitting the fact that Freemasonary is a Satanic Cult and that Illuminati are the followers of Shaitaan. You seriously acting like one of those Western Born KHOJA ... DONT SAY BAD TO ANYONE - YOU DISPLAY PICTURE SAYS YA ALI - ACT LIKE ALI- SHOW THE WORLD THAT YOU ARE HIS FOLLOWER- YOU SHOULD HAVE THE BALLS TO CRITICISE BAD THINGS - AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING GO OUT AND START ABUSING PEOPLE- BUT CRITICISE THEIR WRONG DEEDS- IT IS A KNOWN FACT THAT FREEMASONS ARE EVIL- AND EVEN IF YOU DONT KNOW THEN YOU DESERVE TO BE AN ADMIN OVER HERE. TRUST ME IMAM MEHDI DOES NOT WANT IGNORANT PEOPLE IN HIS ARMY-

PEACE

(salam)

DEAR BROTHER FROSTY- PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM FREEMASONS- UNFORTUNATELY , I CANT SAY THINGS ON THIS FORUM, BUT JOINING THEM IS LIKE JOINING THE ARMY OF DAJJAL - STAY AWAY AND PLEASE PREPARE FOR THE ZAHOOR OF IMAM AND THINK OF JOINING HIS CLUB/GROUP.

Peace

Edited October 22, 2009 by labbaik_khamenai

[JalalAd-DinAli]

So you're saying 99.9% of Catholics are hypocrites to their own religion, only practicing the parts that suit their convenience?

Incorrect. within Catholicism you have to listen to the Pope *BUT* Pope John XXIII notes that Catholics also have to follow their conscious; there is a balance between following and just blind following. I suggest you read some of the writings from the Jesuits - many times confronting church policies through a methodical critique.

[Irishman]

Incorrect. Within Catholicism you have to listen to the Pope *BUT* Pope John XXIII notes that Catholics also have to follow their conscious; there is a balance between following and just blind following. I suggest you read some of the writings from the Jesuits - many times confronting church policies through a methodical critique.

Correct, God has given us all a conscience, which we are obliged to follow, and not just blindly follow the beliefs or views of one person. If the Pope had told me this morning to carry out a suicide bombing against innocent people for the benefit of the Catholic Church, well then if my moral conscience told me that is wrong, I am not obliged to do it!!, and that would not make me a hypocrite!!

[ShiaSoldier@2007]

(salam)

MACISAAC - you are being a bloody hypocrite to your religion as well.. By not admitting the fact that Freemasonary is a Satanic Cult and that Illuminati are the followers of Shaitaan. You seriously acting like one of those Western Born KHOJA ... DONT SAY BAD TO ANYONE - YOU DISPLAY PICTURE SAYS YA ALI - ACT LIKE ALI- SHOW THE WORLD THAT YOU ARE HIS FOLLOWER- YOU SHOULD HAVE THE BALLS TO CRITICISE BAD THINGS - AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING GO OUT AND START ABUSING PEOPLE- BUT CRITICISE THEIR WRONG DEEDS- IT IS A KNOWN FACT THAT FREEMASONS ARE EVIL- AND EVEN IF YOU DONT KNOW THEN YOU DESERVE TO BE AN ADMIN OVER HERE. TRUST ME IMAM MEHDI DOES NOT WANT IGNORANT PEOPLE IN HIS ARMY-

PEACE

(salam)

DEAR BROTHER FROSTY- PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM FREEMASONS- UNFORTUNATELY , I CANT SAY THINGS ON THIS FORUM, BUT JOINING THEM IS LIKE JOINING THE ARMY OF DAJJAL - STAY AWAY AND PLEASE PREPARE FOR THE ZAHOOR OF IMAM AND THINK OF JOINING HIS CLUB/GROUP.

Peace

(bismillah) (salam)

Woah woah woah..

Full caps, you are really serious about this. Macisaac was given the status he is given for a reason, he has to be politically correct. It is up to us small guys to say what needs to be said (in an appropriate manner of course).

[Frosty]

i don't know... why i should join a club...!! no need... i think insecure people who like to follow a group of people to feel accepted or secure to compensate for their inferiority complex are justified to join secretive groups...

So conversing with like minded people, having wholesome fun, doing charity works, all the reasons why I would want to join means I have a inferiority complex? Come on, that doesn't make any sense at all.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Frosty

[yahossein]

So conversing with like minded people, having wholesome fun, doing charity works, all the reasons why I would want to join means I have a inferiority complex? Come on, that doesn't make any sense at all.

If you are here to ask whether WE think that you should join Freemasonry you know full well the answer to that question before you posted that topic on this forum.

However if you are here to promote Freemasonry as "like minded people" who have "wholesome fun" and engage in "charity work", you sound like propaganda.

That is all i will say regarding this.