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Pakistan launches a major assault ,30 000 troops

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Pakistan launches Taliban assault

Major General Athar Abbas of the Pakistani Army: ''Forces are progressing well''

Fierce fighting has broken out as Pakistan's army launched an air and ground offensive against Taliban militants in the South Waziristan area.

Officials said 30,000 troops, backed by artillery, had moved into the region where Pakistan Taliban leader Hakimullah Mehsud is based.

Militants were reported to be offering stiff resistance as troops advanced from the north, east, and west.

A curfew was imposed in the region before the offensive began.

There have been several co-ordinated Taliban attacks in recent days, killing more than 150 people in cities across Pakistan.

Dozens of casualties have taken place, they say, and both sides are using heavy weapons.

Meanwhile locals from South Waziristan are facing great difficulty in leaving the area. All roads have been blocked by the military which is using them to transport ammunition and arms into the heart of the battle.

The transport and communication network has been effectively crippled. The casualties are now expected to rise as the terrain gets difficult for ground troops to operate in against the battle-hardened Taliban.

Eyewitness: At the edge of war

Pakistan's top army spokesman Maj Gen Athar Abbas confirmed that a fully-fledged assault had begun and said that an offensive could last up to two months.

"The objective is to clear this terrorist organisation from the area, who has taken over the area, turned these state institutions, organisations out and has taken the entire population hostage," he told the BBC.

He added that intense fighting was expected during the course of the operation.

Dozens of casualties have already been reported by local officials as both sides used heavy weapons.

The bodies of three Pakistan soldiers were taken to the northern town of Razmak. There have also been unconfirmed reports of militant deaths.

Nearly all communications in the region were down after the Taliban destroyed a telecommunications tower at Tiarza, local officials said.

WAZIRISTAN ASSAULTS AND PEACE DEALS

March - April 2004: Two-week assault where military suffered heavy casualties, ending in peace deal with militant Nek Mohammad

January - Feb 2005: Peace deal with Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud ends significant army presence there

December 2007 - January 2008 - Army operation in Mehsud area partially successful but ended in peace deal with Baitulalh Mehsud

October 2009 - Army launches offensive

Reports from the area are sketchy as it is difficult and dangerous for foreign or Pakistani journalists to operate inside South Waziristan.

Aerial bombardments in the the Makeen area, a stronghold of the Mehsud tribe and a key army target, were also reported by local officials and witnesses.

One resident of Makeen town described the onset of fighting.

"We heard the sounds of planes and helicopters early Saturday. Then we heard blasts. We are also hearing gunshots and it seems the army is exchanging fire with Taliban," Ajmal Khan told the Associated Press news agency by telephone.

Hakimullah Mehsud in late 2008

Hakimullah Mehsud is the new leader of the Pakistan Taliban

The ground operation comes after weeks of air and artillery strikes against militant targets in the region, which lies close to the Afghan border.

Thousands of civilians have fled South Waziristan in anticipation of the offensive.

Aid agencies say that many more are expected to flee but the tough terrain and the Taliban's grip on the area will present difficulties.

Transport has been difficult as roads have been blocked by the military.

FORCES IN WAZIRISTAN

Pakistan army: Two divisions totalling 28,000 soldiers

Frontier Corp: Paramilitary forces from tribal areas likely to support army

Taliban militants: Estimated between 10,000 and 20,000

Uzbek fighters supporting Taliban: Estimates widely vary between 500-5,000

Challenges in Waziristan

Pakistanis reflect on offensive

There is a huge army presence on the road between Tank and Dera Ismail Khan, says the BBC's Islamabad correspondent Shoaib Hasan, near South Waziristan.

On his way to South Waziristan, he passed several army convoys on the road.

There has been no comment from the Pakistan military yet.

The mobilisation came a day after Pakistan Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani held a meeting of the country's senior political and military leadership.

Lengthy planning

Recent militant attacks were seen as an attempt to divide public opinion, but they appear to have strengthened the resolve of the government, which says the Taliban must now be eliminated, our correspondent added.

A family flee Waziristan region near the Afghan border ahead of fighting

Pakistanis have fled the Afghan border region as troops move in

The army has been massing troops near the militants' stronghold for months - ever since the governor of Pakistan's North West Frontier Province announced a ground offensive in South Waziristan on 15 June.

Pakistan's government has been under considerable pressure from the US to tackle militancy there.

North and South Waziristan form a lethal militant belt from where insurgents have launched attacks across north-west Pakistan as well as into parts of eastern Afghanistan.

South Waziristan is considered to be the first significant sanctuary for Islamic militants outside Afghanistan since 9/11.

It also has numerous training camps for suicide bombers.

Edited by Bonafide Hustler
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It's going fine so far. The troops have captured Kotkai, the hometown of the current Taliban leader, Hakimullah Mehsud. Dawn has quoted the army spokesman saying that around 25 (23?) troops and 160 militants have died since the ground offensive began. The army should not leave before breaking the entire network of TTP and allies. It is also imperative that army stays in the area when operations ends.

Edited by Marbles
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The chickens are coming home to roost for Pakistan

Their bloated defence budget and history of support for Taliban as a proxy could only lead them down this path

I have a question for you Pakistani brothers: do you think the government has finally learned its lesson?

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The chickens are coming home to roost for Pakistan

Their bloated defence budget and history of support for Taliban as a proxy could only lead them down this path

I have a question for you Pakistani brothers: do you think the government has finally learned its lesson?

The chickens are coming home to roost for quite some time now.

The strategic support for Taliban was not due to any ideological/religious but purely political reasons. i.e; To keep Taliban as a group of handy mercenaries who could be mobilised on short notice. These ideological nutcases and their allies have "helped" Pakistan to counter Indian influence in the region with control on Afghan politics and insurgency in Indian held Kashmir. Little did the establishment know that the Frankenstein's Monster they created would turn against its own creator.

The government, or rather the ISI/military, won't completely give up strong and long established ties with some sections of militants who, on the orders of the agencies, have refrained from any militant activity. These are being called "good Taliban" - so the "bad" ones, either outsiders or home grown, are those who have turned their guns against the Pakistani state and public. It's the latter group that worries Pakistani state. The positive side of this fiasco has been the total drop in popularity of Taliban among general Pakistani (non-Shia) population. The religious kind were quite sympathetic to the "Islamic" rule of Taliban next door. Now, they are not.

It can't be said with certainty if Pakistan has learned a lesson. When these Talibans and neo-Talibans are annihilated and dust settles, then maybe we will see what happens next in Pakistani politics. That, of course, assuming that Pakistan will survive the ongoing unrest.

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It's going fine so far. The troops have captured Kotkai, the hometown of the current Taliban leader, Hakimullah Mehsud. Dawn has quoted the army spokesman saying that around 25 (23?) troops and 160 militants have died since the ground offensive began. The army should not leave before breaking the entire network of TTP and allies. It is also imperative that army stays in the area when operations ends.

I agree, its imperative that they stay there, and also make sure that all such areas in west Pakistan where the government or army doesnt excercise any presence or control are also dealt with.

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Its not easy dude. Ever wonder why USA has problems keeping Mexicans from crossing their border? Most of the Pakistani military presence is situated towards the right in bigger cities, and the rest is ever focused towards the Indian border where the real supposed threat has lied. A lot of the area in west Pakistan has been self governed and run by local tribes and recently by Taliban who have even pushed the local leaders out of contention through force. This will now take a while. More than totally removing all terrorist cells from that area, it’s absolutely essential that Pakistan at least snatches control of it.

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Its not easy dude. Ever wonder why USA has problems keeping Mexicans from crossing their border? Most of the Pakistani military presence is situated towards the right in bigger cities, and the rest is ever focused towards the Indian border where the real supposed threat has lied. A lot of the area in west Pakistan has been self governed and run by local tribes and recently by Taliban who have even pushed the local leaders out of contention through force. This will now take a while. More than totally removing all terrorist cells from that area, it’s absolutely essential that Pakistan at least snatches control of it.

I understand it's not easy. And I understand i don't have the answers to these problems.

But isn't it at least obvious that it is impossible to win a conflict against a group which thrives upon conflict?

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What's the deal? How can such a large military force not be able to establish control over the entire country?

Did they just relegate certain areas to the Taliban as a show of 'good will?'

You have to consider two related facts to understand the current dilemma.

Pakistan has always concentrated on its Eastern border with the traditional rival India and stationed all their troops on that front. Due to constant (real or perceived) threat of Indian conspiracies, border skirmishes and a possible war, Pakistan wanted to keep their Western border with Afghanistan as friendly as possible. (Successive pre-Soviet Afghan war governments in Kabul were hostile to Pakistan and leaning towards India due to the Durand Line border conflict). Hence Pakistani support for Taliban because Taliban, from the time of Soviet-afghan war, were in the pocket of Pakistani establishment and there was minimal threat of any military conflict. The Western border was considered safe. This was true till Pakistan, under US pressure, decided to fight the very Taliban it created, nurtured and armed since the time of Soviets till 9/11. Taliban, of course, felt betrayed.

Second, the border area with Afghanistan, which had supply routes and training facilities for Afghan Mujahideen during Soviet-Afghan war roughly includes FATA (Federally Administered Tribal Areas). The FATA has always been a semi-autonomous region with political agents who govern on behalf of Islamabad. There was hardly any army/police/security presence in the area. It's exactly those areas where Afghani Taliban, their foreign and Pakistani allies had sought refuge when they were made to run after the fall of Taliban. They (talibanis) have been strengthening their control of FATA, accumulating weapons and declaring war against the very Pakistan which supported them in the past. The lack of military presence in FATA and neighbouring areas wasn't a problem because Taliban and other jihadis who frequented those areas were friends. Not anymore.

Pakistan is currently trying to eliminate these elements and trying to regain full control of those areas. Even though the army is engaged on Western front with 28,000 troops, the bulk are still stationed at the Eastern border with India as Pakistan fears that India would take advantage of the internal social unrest. Actually, Indians have been involved in destabalising Balochistan - something Pakistan can't afford at the moment. There is speculation going on whether Iran would send its forces into Pakistan to take out Jundullah terrorists. This would quadruple Pakistan's worries if Iran goes ahead with it or presses Pakistan for a military action against Pakistani Balochistan based Jundullah terrorists at this point in time

As for "good Taliban", no Pakistan has not given any territory to them. They are dormant and probably only involved against NATO forces in Afghanistan. Maybe Pakistani establishment has lost effective control over them. I can't say. But Pakistan is still cautious not to attack every single Talibani and/or Kashmiri jihadi splinter group so long as they sit quiet within Pakistan.

Edited by Marbles
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When speaking about Pakistan, it should be kept in mind that during the past 32 years, the present government is the Only government that is avle to act relatively indepenedently and reflects, to a large extent, the peoples will.

Benazir's 2 tenures were severely compromozed by her agreements with the GHQ.

Zia and Mussharraf were outright trautors to the people of Pakistan, as was and is Mian Nawaz Sharif.

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Despite popular belief, Taliban were not always supported by all governments. They were created, armed and organized by Gen. Zia ul Haqq (la'een) and their master, the US. They served in the fight against USSR in the past. The thing is that the people comprising Taliban or the TTP (Tehreek Taliban Pakistan) are all Kharijites exclusively, following the neo-Islamic extremist doctrines originating and spread by the post WWI Saudi Arabia. The Uzbek and Chechen reinforcements are mercenaries and so are Taliban who are funded and supplied by India and the West, although covertly. It serves many purposes now. In the past, the Taliban were used to butcher Shia across Pakistan and fuel sectarianism in an attempt to deface Islam and destabilize Pakistan.

During democratic govt tenures, they are helped by the Kharijites in the beurocracy, intelligence agencies and law enforcement. This phenomenon needs to be understood properly and it makes perfect sense too. Unless all Kharijites are removed from the country, the Taliban cancer will not disappear. Since Kharijite doctrine declares both Sunni and Shia as infidels, the Taliban do not hesitate to kill any and all Pakistani civilians. Our fault, therefore, and the fault of stool pigeons like Nawaz Sharif is that we tolerated this religious invasion from Saudi Arabia, another British/US puppet, and in return Nawaz Sharif received petro dollars as "aid" which he and former marshall law administrators also used to sabotage other democratic parties and their chances of victory. Its a great conspiracy that has been seeded, nutritioned and nurtured over the course of many decades and now we behold them as the Taliban.

We have to neutralize and ban Kharijite activity and its teachings to stop Talibans and Talibanization. This must be done at a government and then public level after giving people awareness about whats really going on.

On topic, I love this move by our army that they are actually cutting off their supply lines by taking control of and sealing the Pak-Afghan border on their own. Its also evidence that they know that the US troops who sit right at the border on the other side are actually also supplying and helping the Pakistani Taliban covertly and do not rely on their security at all. Once south waziristan is also cleansed and the border is sealed, they will have no more cross border supplies and the fate of the militants shall be inshaAllah sealed by doing that. The second proof is that mullah Umar, the head of the real Taliban in Afghanistan, has disclaimed any relationship to the Pakistani Taliban (TTP).

The real worry is that India might have to directly intervene on behalf of the global Satanic alliance, if Taliban are in serious trouble, and thats going to happen sometime soon. This is why the Indians have been constantly exerting pressure throughout this thing, and even staged a false flag op in coordination with their own mercenaries in TTP -- the amphibious terrorist attack in Mumbai. They are producing excuses because if this careful and very long plan fails, they will have to wait for a very long time again.

Edited by Ibrahim Nakhaee
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The Uzbek and Chechen reinforcements are mercenaries and so are Taliban who are funded and supplied by India and the West, although covertly.

No wonder Pakistan has turned into a hell hole with a populace that has a shocking inability to self-reflect and a mind boggling penchant for absolutely bizarre conspiracy allegations. And to put it bluntly, these conspiracy theories after a point should be classified as nothing less than lies that are damaging what's left of the reputation of Muslims.

Kind'a of topic but this pitiful line of thought has even crept into (or was it always there?) the sport of cricket, with a Pakistani politician accusing the Pakistani cricket team of losing on purpose. Thankfully, Younus Khan (cricket captain) agreed to not quit.

Edited by thepeacemaker
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No wonder Pakistan has turned into a hell hole with a populace that has a shocking inability to self-reflect and a mind boggling penchant for absolutely bizarre conspiracy allegations. And to put it bluntly, these conspiracy theories after a point should be classified as nothing less than lies that are damaging what's left of the reputation of Muslims.

Kind'a of topic but this pitiful line of thought has even crept into (or was it always there?) the sport of cricket, with a Pakistani politician accusing the Pakistani cricket team of losing on purpose. Thankfully, Younus Khan (cricket captain) agreed to not quit.

As much as I despise mindless conspiracy theories, and Ibrahim can testify to that, I do not think you can just write off the possibility of the ill-wishers of Pakistan to take advantage of the terrible socio-political situation in the country. I accept that blame game, with Pakistan and India accusing each other for every mosquito that dies in the country, isn't going to take us anywhere. But at the same time, it would be naive to assume that Indian intelligence is sitting idly on their backsides getting sad at the worsening situation next door. We have enough suspicion against extraordinary Indian activity in Afghan cities near Afghan-Pakistan border. Yes, I'm linking to troubles in Balochistan.

I see you are Indian but that doesn't mean you can call Indian involvement in Pakistan a conspiracy theory.

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So if all taliban are funded by the the same entities, why would they dissociate from each other?

They don't fight each other either or do they? How naive can you become in your reasonings? Proclaiming dissociation is infact a mildly good way to confuse all the herd of cows around the globe, the pathetic mindless slaves whose only purpose in life is to earn money and the continuation of their meaningless lives. So they can rest easy with whatever BS their favorite news channel just fed them.

And thanks for showing that pic, I hope you can recognize the British Vickers MMG produced in India?

You all terribly need to understand how spies work. If it were so easy to understand the profession all the agencies would never exist and no governments would bother having them. They're there to help control all the naive people in this world, and they are certainly worth all the funding. Remember that.

No wonder Pakistan has turned into a hell hole with a populace that has a shocking inability to self-reflect and a mind boggling penchant for absolutely bizarre conspiracy allegations.

Why don't you ask the interior minister of Pakistan who openly expressed some of my thoughts, accused India too. Why would our media lie? Why would the western media, of all else, lie?

Thousands of guns USA sent to Afghanistan are missing -- CNN.com (A friend of mine is personally in possession of one of their Beretta 9mm automatic. He bought it for approx. 350 euros and now its worth more than twice that much.:()

Germany donates 10000 guns to Afghanistan

German military guns reportedly sold illegally on Pakistani and Afghan black markets

Brother of Afghan leader (Puppet Karzai) said to be paid by CIA to do a lot of their dirty work -- NY Times

Islamabad: Americans Dressed as Afghans Caught With Illegal Weapons and Explosives Pak Alert Press

FOUR American citizens were caught red-handed by Capital Police in the early hours of Tuesday for photographing sensitive buildings. All four were dressed in traditional Afghan outfits and were found to be in possession of illegal weapons and explosives.

The Americans were also seen taking photographs of buildings around the area while some videos of sensitive locations in Islamabad were also found with them. During the preliminary investigation, the Americans falsely claimed that they were US Marines – and were taken to the police station for further investigation. After the personal intervention of those high up in the Interior Ministry, the Americans were allowed to leave without being charged. Some sources disclose that the US Embassy officials intervened in the matter by contacting higher-ups of Pakistan’s Interior Ministry and had the culprits freed.

In 2005, Iraqi Police arrested and locked up TWO British operatives in Basra who were dressed in local Arab gear, shooting at innocent civilians in a busy market with automatic rifles and driving a vehicle laden with explosives, intended to go off in the middle of the busy market. British tanks tore into the prison and rescued both these men. In Pakistan, it seems all the Americans need to do is make a call to the Interior Ministry and have their terrorists released.

Some days ago, police officials deployed at a security check post in Islamabad stopped two Dutch personnel and recovered sophisticated weapons including hand grenades, bombs, and sophisticated guns from their custody. The police lodged a formal complaint, however, no action was initiated on directions of Interior Ministry and the matter was hushed.

William Ven and Tomas Smith were the two Dutch men caught roaming around with sophisticated weapons, bombs and hand grenades in a blue BMW, registered number of which was IDL 4191. Sources on the condition of anonymity reveal that both officials were working for the notorious Blackwater Co. (Xe) and were almost certainly out on an assassination mission, target of which is still unknown.

Before the security agencies could confirm their connection with Blackwater (Xe), the interior ministry again came to their rescue and saying that the men were ‘Dutch embassy officials’ – which appears to be an attempt to cover up Blackwater’s questionable activities on the media.

These are not conspiracy theories, obviously. It's not my personal little vendetta against your darlings or the Satan himself, God forbid. I'll never understand Indian "muslims" either, or patriotism towards governments. How long will you people take to realize that you're not loved back and they only spend a tiny fraction of your own taxes back on you? Patriotism for a country is understandable but patriotism for your government is clear foolishness. You know what your problem is? You need stuff to criticize and people to point your little fingers on, so you can feel good and sensible. I feel too concerned about your mental health to say anything more.

Shame on you.

2uyod3k.gif

Edited by Ibrahim Nakhaee
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They don't fight each other either or do they? How naive can you become in your reasonings? Proclaiming dissociation is infact a mildly good way to confuse all the herd of cows around the globe, the pathetic mindless slaves whose only purpose in life is to earn money and the continuation of their meaningless lives. So they can rest easy with whatever BS their favorite news channel just fed them.

LOL sorry about that. I misunderstood when you mentioned Mullah Umar. I thought you are taking it the same way as some of their own keep talking here, i.e. Mullah Umar is good, doing jihad but not TTP when both are same.

And thanks for showing that pic, I hope you can recognize the British Vickers MMG produced in India?

Yeah, seen it before too during Swat operation pictures. Do you happen to know exact model of these? Because I remember reading somewhere that these are PKMs and being called Vickers. I have seen PKM, there is resemblance between the two, the only major difference appearing in the pictures is the muzzle design. PKM's muzzles are not cone shaped.

Edited by Nocturne
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Confirmed: TTP using Indian / US weapons

Pak Army gains control over Mingora. US, Indian and Russian weapons found.

US should worry about lost weapons in Afghanistan, not about Pak nukes: ISPR

vickers-indian.jpg

As for the pic Nocturne, they say its an Indian FN MAG rifle 7.62mm (Its not Vickers LMG, my mistake, sorry). But you have actually stirred some doubt in me there because I have seen PKM's and there is some resemblence, except for its barrel. I'll look into it, and thanks. :)

Here is some Tali dog firing a PKM:

Mullah_Dadullah_firing_PK_2.PNG

Notice the difference in barrels? This one has a stronger, sturdy barrel with sort of "corrugations" (for lack of a better word) over the part near the firing chamber. This is necessary for a proper LMG that has to keep firing a lot of rounds. Whereas, the one in the previous picture has plain, thinner barrel instead, so its just a squad level automatic weapon. Also notice the difference in the mechanical part and its casing which is between the barrel and the buttstock. The mullah's PKM has an even "box" sort of casing whereas the one in the previous pictures has an uneven surface. They say its an Indian FN MAG 7.62 as I wrote before, but now I'm not sure so I'll ask some military experts soon to clarify. Pakistan produces german HK33 rifles (called G-3) and MG42 LMGs under license. While India produces some Russian weapons under license. That could be the cause in similarity of design, especially in the bipod placement under the barrel.

But, being honest, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that perhaps it could be that some media outlets are hired as Islamist propaganda machines in order to, yet again, shift the blame from the Taliban? One things for sure, however, that the US and Indians are neck deep in this. There are too many findings to support that. I was looking for the pic with american taliban M16s to post here, I'll find it eventually (i.e. taliban with the "lost" us weaponry).

Then there were the (disturbing) pics of uncircumsized dead taliban (not posting the link again on purpose). And bro I never said that the mullahs aren't responsible. I've merely said that they are working as mercenaries, and that the Satan is helping them establish their caliphate. Of course, once if they start succeeding in the future, heavens forbid, then the Satan will have to betray the mullah and cut off their own serpent's head after its done destroying Pakistan -- the part that interests Satan. That outcome, the mullah can't figure out yet, or thinks that they'll be able to handle it when it comes. But I'm certain that unless the Satan openly intervenes to help Taliban, our Pak Army will kick their arse and bury them forever, and their cheap plan will fail. Above all, these Kharijites will be crushed and removed from our country. That'll be great and lets pray for that.

Edited by Ibrahim Nakhaee
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Hakeemullah Mehsood with Indian FN MAG?/PKM?. There are different variants of PKMs I think, could be one of them? Not all PKMs have the corrugated barrel. FN MAG are of Belgium, their buttstocks are not like that. I have only seen Russian PKMs and Russian Draganov Sniper rifle with a buttstock like that.

post-18745-12570576805726_thumb.jpg

Compare with PKM variants here:

http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg07-e.htm

Also, check Indian Ordnance Factories website, their products:

http://ofbindia.gov.in/index.php?wh=Weapons〈=en

and yeah, I've seen that photo. Not ruling out foreign involvement, just that this particular instance of weapon is doubtful to me.

Edited by Nocturne
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Well those are just pictures that did appear and it would be terribly unwise for any foreign power to deliver their own army's service weapons to the Taliban, even though they do have some of those too. I have personally purchased US army boots, a rifle telescope and some items of use in the outdoors and hunting. I saw piles of flak vests with the US flag and USMC insignias on them and level IIIA and IV plates inside of them. The guy asked me 400 euros for a much more special full body armor but I had no need of it. I saw his reserves away from his shop to sake my curiosity. He had so much US army equipment that I was amazed and couldn't identify all of it. There were stockpiles of what I think were radios, scanners, rations, GPS devices, some laser based devices, etc. This was in open market in Peshawar.

In the picture you have posted, there is a bag on the lower left corner that reads "Indian medicines". Al-Jazeera reporters visited that very little stash photographed there. They too believe that there is fishy stuff going on. Why would our army lie? There is also a recent news that didn't make it onto media on purpose. As you know we have the Talidogs surrounded in south waziristan. About over a week ago, there were two US gunships, two chinooks and a jet ranger heli that crossed the border and ignored the encirclement, flew over it and took the top TTP/Al-CIAduh leadership with them. The Pakistan Army shot down one of the jet rangers. Since then the army has shoved a boot up the politicians and foreign diplomats. Hillary Clinton recently visited us on an apologetic, reconciliation mission -- to explain and give reassurances. Moreover, the new development is to install a new puppet government and change the existing one. PPP had been preparing for it since the beginning of october as they relaxed a lot of rules and requirements for stuff like electrification of their own remote estates belonging to PPP politcians, some other reuirements and trade restrictions so they can prepare for the fall of their government and the coming time when they'll be out of power and some of them will probably be persecuted and witch-hunted by media after surprising "scandals", as is the norm.

To the Pakistanis who know, its no secret that the US (through its Balckwater/Xe) and the Indians (through their hired agents and sympathizers in Afghanistan and in seperatist political parties like ANP and personalities like Pir Pagarhaand Bugti, etc.) are neck deep into this whole thing. The mullah has sold itself to them. Who benefited the most from Mumbai attacks and who carried it out? Our new private and hot GEO tv channel is partly owned by India (by Bajjaj corporation who has 40% shares in GEO as well as other media outfits in Pakistan). So its a big game going on and I've always summarized their objectives.

Report about Taliban working as American mercenaries:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTpTRX6zuuo

Reality about Al-CIA-duh (which is just an excuse and doesn't exist):

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And its not just me, or us Pakistanis who can sense foul play by foreign powers.

Afghans suspect US / NATO are aiding the Taliban insurgents

Thing is, that we all should know that HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF. These Saudi minions, the wahabi terrorists, are the same backstabbers who worked for Col. Lawrence and helped defeat the Ottoman empire. They're only doing it again. Their reward will be a chunk of the Afghan-Pak region. We've all seen the wishful new geopolitical maps from CIA's website, showing chunks and provinces of what is Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. They're all in it together. There are also hadeeths that say that in the end times there will be so much confusion that the killer will not know the real reason why he is killing another and the murdererd will not be knwing why he is killed. That there will be layers and layers of deceit. Thats exactly whats happening these days, beginning with the 911 false flag op.

We found passports of foreign agents from TTP strongholds in Waziristan who arrived here a bit before 9/11 incident. It was all planned.

Here is the ex military intelligence chief who tells us that the Pakistani Taliban were created only a couple of years before 9/11. (Video is in urdu)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiAZQJwjv3E

(Sorry for cosecutive posts, SC had been down or something for a while).

Edited by Ibrahim Nakhaee
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Well those are just pictures that did appear and it would be terribly unwise for any foreign power to deliver their own army's service weapons to the Taliban, even though they do have some of those too. I have personally purchased US army boots, a rifle telescope and some items of use in the outdoors and hunting. I saw piles of flak vests with the US flag and USMC insignias on them and level IIIA and IV plates inside of them. The guy asked me 400 euros for a much more special full body armor but I had no need of it. I saw his reserves away from his shop to sake my curiosity. He had so much US army equipment that I was amazed and couldn't identify all of it. There were stockpiles of what I think were radios, scanners, rations, GPS devices, some laser based devices, etc. This was in open market in Peshawar.

Well, their convoys were looted or they had them looted and what not by their own breed. Not all of that stuff end up getting used by their breed. I don't think they will ever prefer anything over AK47, lol because that's the easiest to maintain, including ammunition supplies etc. They even got a few Humvees I think, lol.

and I bet you saw all that in Karkhano Market?

In the picture you have posted, there is a bag on the lower left corner that reads "Indian medicines". Al-Jazeera reporters visited that very little stash photographed there. They too believe that there is fishy stuff going on. Why would our army lie? There is also a recent news that didn't make it onto media on purpose. As you know we have the Talidogs surrounded in south waziristan. About over a week ago, there were two US gunships, two chinooks and a jet ranger heli that crossed the border and ignored the encirclement, flew over it and took the top TTP/Al-CIAduh leadership with them. The Pakistan Army shot down one of the jet rangers. Since then the army has shoved a boot up the politicians and foreign diplomats. Hillary Clinton recently visited us on an apologetic, reconciliation mission -- to explain and give reassurances. Moreover, the new development is to install a new puppet government and change the existing one. PPP had been preparing for it since the beginning of october as they relaxed a lot of rules and requirements for stuff like electrification of their own remote estates belonging to PPP politcians, some other reuirements and trade restrictions so they can prepare for the fall of their government and the coming time when they'll be out of power and some of them will probably be persecuted and witch-hunted by media after surprising "scandals", as is the norm.

I don't deny that fishy stuff is going on but I don't fully trust the Army either. They have had an even contribution in the monster creation. Indian medicines, yeah its ideal for them to get stuff from the Afghan side, I bet Indian products are present on the other side of the border and Indian medicines were in some Lahore shops even, this was years ago. I don't know now.

and US did that? and Army shot down Jet Ranger? Really? They took the top leadership with them? This was known to Army and they weren't intercepted or anything like that? :-\

To the Pakistanis who know, its no secret that the US (through its Balckwater/Xe) and the Indians (through their hired agents and sympathizers in Afghanistan and in seperatist political parties like ANP and personalities like Pir Pagarhaand Bugti, etc.) are neck deep into this whole thing. The mullah has sold itself to them. Who benefited the most from Mumbai attacks and who carried it out? Our new private and hot GEO tv channel is partly owned by India (by Bajjaj corporation who has 40% shares in GEO as well as other media outfits in Pakistan). So its a big game going on and I've always summarized their objectives.

Geo isn't new :P and owned by Bajjaj? I'd like to see some proof, lol. and the Blackwater/Xe is all here right. Why did our saviors let them be? and what's being done about them? I hope you know the Army's very own ISI Chief was/is on tour to Saudi Arabia, met with their king (I'd like to dream he went to warn the king not to fund the jihad but oh well), at time when Zardari is being asked to resign, the Chief of Army Staff is meeting the Prime Minister and Nawaz League is getting all jumpy. Probably all for the same reason. Will see the vidz n all later tomorrow.

Peace.

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Proof of Indian involvement in Waziristan found: Pak army (Dawn.com)

and I bet you saw all that in Karkhano Market?

Yeah bro. I didn't have time or the money I knew I'd have to spend in a visit to the old barha. ;)

On topic,

the army has found a 500 meter long, huge underground tunnel in the hills of Waziristan. It contained whole trucks carrying ammo and miscellaneous supplies.

Here are some video updates from Waziristan on the current military operation appropriately termed "raah-e-nijaat" (path to good riddance) :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j94xjMI3NCc

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Proof of Indian involvement in Waziristan found: Pak army (Dawn.com)

Yeah bro. I didn't have time or the money I knew I'd have to spend in a visit to the old barha. ;)

On topic,

the army has found a 500 meter long, huge underground tunnel in the hills of Waziristan. It contained whole trucks carrying ammo and miscellaneous supplies.

Here are some video updates from Waziristan on the current military operation appropriately termed "raah-e-nijaat" (path to good riddance) :P

You are going to tell about the rest of stuff you mentioned earlier? :P

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MashAllah good to see the Military doing well against the insurgents.

i doubt they d get anywhere and i never knew the pakistani army was so begheraat' and cowardly that they cant even take out a [Edited Out]py insurgency such as these taliban mongs

in my area of pakistan - swabi province we have a rule - see a taliban - shoot him so if town-village geezers can have effective methods then what are these pakistani army mongs doing

doubt anything good will come just some exagerated numbers of deaths etc blah blah

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i doubt they d get anywhere and i never knew the pakistani army was so begheraat' and cowardly that they cant even take out a [Edited Out]py insurgency such as these taliban mongs

in my area of pakistan - swabi province we have a rule - see a taliban - shoot him so if town-village geezers can have effective methods then what are these pakistani army mongs doing

doubt anything good will come just some exagerated numbers of deaths etc blah blah

lol, they're doing alright man, they already took Swat back, only a matter of time.

It isn't as easy as you think, the Taliban are keere-mokere, they hide in the crack and sometimes its hard to find and kill them.

But I gotta say man the Army are doing alright in this regard.

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lol, they're doing alright man, they already took Swat back, only a matter of time.

It isn't as easy as you think, the Taliban are keere-mokere, they hide in the crack and sometimes its hard to find and kill them.

But I gotta say man the Army are doing alright in this regard.

just destroying the country bro man i wonder where these taliban geezers even popped out from back in 2005-06 when i last went there wasnt even a whisper in the street about them now its everywhere

america must have something to do with this and these drones which hit NWFP all the time and sudden increase in bombs in peshawar

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PESHAWAR: The Army is winding up the first phase of Operation Rah-i-Nijat by this weekend by capturing all major towns and villages in the Taliban heartland of South Waziristan, senior military officials said.

The lightning speed with which the military has been able to seize major towns and villages, taking over Sherwangi, Kotkai, Kaniguram and Sararogha and secure main supply routes in the embattled tribal region has taken many an analyst, and even some military planners, by surprise. The security forces are already inside Makin from the Razmak access but the area is said to be infested with minefields and will take some time before it is declared safe.

In 20 days since the launch of the operation on the night of October 16, the military is now poised to march into Mehsuds’ regional headquarters of Laddah.

The fall of Laddah will mark the end of the first phase of the operation into the mountainous Mehsud territory.

This will mean a huge reversal for the militants who had over-run paramilitary security forces’ forts, beaten back two military operations in the past and turned South Waziristan into the epicentre and birthplace of Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan.

The second phase

The second phase that will include consolidation and clearance will take the military deeper into the Mehsud heartland, into valleys and small hamlets.

This phase will also be used to bring the political administration back into an area that hitherto was off-limit for them to make damage assessment and begin to take charge of the civil affairs.

Already, the military has begun repair work on the Shakai-Kaniguram road, while the administration has undertaken the reconstruction of Jandola-Sararogha road.

The roads have been in a shambles and no repair work could be undertaken in the area since it plunged into militancy and the state authority ceased to exist and exercise its control.

Work has also begun on restoring power transmission line, in the same speed with which the military moved in.

Officials in the Fata administration say they need Rs3.8 billion to carry out the early recovery and reconstruction work in the Mehsud territory, and a security official says Rs2.5 billion has already been placed at their disposal.

Fata administration officials say they plan to complete the major repair work, restore civic amenities and re-establish political administration in the embattled zone by April next year.

‘The Mehsuds usually migrate to Tank and Dera Ismail Khan to avoid harsh winter and return home after spring. So we have time between now and until then to complete civil and administrative work,’ a senior official in the Fata Secretariat said.

The fall of the Taliban heartland

But while the government moves in right earnest to restore its writ in the territory, there are speculations and questions galore as to what happened to the almost legendary and much-hyped Taliban resistance in the area.

Military officials now acknowledge that after putting up stiff resistance in the initial phase of the operation, the militants’ resolve to fend off attacks simply collapsed.

Not surprisingly, therefore, the military casualties have been minimal with 40 dead and 71 wounded, in what was widely billed as the mother of all battles.

Based on intercepts and other intelligence reports, the military puts the militants’ casualty figure at close to 500 dead and 786 wounded. ‘We have broken the myth of Taliban’s invincibility and we have also broken the myth that South Waziristan is a no-go area,’ a senior military officer said.

The fighting has been tough, at least in some areas, but several factors led to the military’s relatively smooth and trouble-free march into the territory.

Military officials offer various reasons for the near-successful operation so far. Chief among them was a replication of a Taliban tactic, military officials say.

The Taliban had fortified their positions and heavily mined the major access routes into South Waziristan, hoping the military, like the past, would push ahead through the main roads.

It didn’t happen. Instead, the military infantry walked through the mountains, taking over ridges and commanding features before moving down to enter a built-up area.

‘We have beaten them at their own tactic. This has been the classic Mehsud tactic, encircling and ambushing the enemy from the ridges and commanding features and we did the same to them. They were not prepared for this,’ one official commented.

The sheer preponderance of soldiers, unlike the past half-hearted limited-scale operations which were easily beaten, also seems to have overawed the Taliban, military officials say.

Air Action

But one of the most significant contributions perhaps, came from the Pakistan Air Force and Army’s Aviation Wing with its attack helicopters.

The PAF with advanced technology not only targeted the enemy positions with precision but also provided enhanced and high resolution images to the ground forces.

‘Necessity is the mother of all inventions,’ a senior security official remarked. ‘For nearly four months, the PAF worked hard to try and conform to our needs,’ the official said. Video feed from its planes and unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) and their night capabilities to search and attack targets came as a big surprise to the Taliban fighters.

‘The Taliban assertion based on their knowledge of the local area that the night belongs to them suddenly became irrelevant. They are no longer able to mount night attacks,’ the official said.

As the incessant precision attacks hit the hardcore militants hard, the peripheral elements appeared to dither and fade away. Even the widely acclaimed tough Uzbek fighters are reported to have relocated to North Waziristan, security officials said.

What probably made the military’s job easier was the evacuation of Mehsud civilians to Tank and Dera Ismail Khan. Political administration officials say almost 99 per cent of the Mehsud population left the area due to three months of crippling economic blockade and impending military operation.

Another crucial factor was the decision by the Ahmadzai Wazir militant commander Maulvi Nazir in Wana and Hafiz Gul Bahadar to stay neutral and not join the fight.

‘It took us four months to shape up the environment for the military operation,’ the senior military official said.

The Taliban say they have made a tactical retreat to avoid civilian casualties, but officials maintain that a retreating enemy does not leave behind their ammunition and weapons.

‘When somebody retreats, he takes his weapon to fight another day. He does not flee and abandon his weapons. What has happened is that they have left behind huge cache of arms and ammunition.’ The third phase:

But challenges remain. The anticipated Mehsud uprising with the launch of the military operation against the Taliban has not come, largely due to past bitter experiences with half-hearted and half-backed operations.

‘To be honest, we didn’t expect them to rise against the militants so early in the operation. There is a trust deficit. They want to be sure that the military will not abandon like the past and we don’t want to push them,’ an official acknowledged.

But the political administration official in South Waziristan’s regional headquarters of Wana said the Mehsuds had begun showing signs of supporting the government against the Taliban.

‘We have assured them that the military will stay and the paramilitary force would return in addition to levy force to assuage their fears and give them a sense of security,’ he said.

The Mehsuds are weary that with the leadership intact, the Taliban may stage a comeback and make life difficult.

There is also a debate and consensus within official circles to relocate Mehsuds’ regional headquarters from Laddah to Makin.

Makin —a plain area and commercial hub of the Mehsuds —is close to Razmak, is easily defendable and sits on the Y-junction between Sararogha and Wana.

There is also a consensus to create more administrative tehsils to increase official presence and make the Mehsud territory more governable.

The divisive issue, however, is the bifurcation of South Waziristan into two separate administrative regions —the Wazir and Mehsud tribal regions.

Some officials argue that the construction of Gomal Zam Road to allow unhindered access to Ahmadzai Wazir, by-passing the Mehsud territory, and create a separate Wazir tribal agency would end Mehsuds’ nuisance value once and for all.

The Mehsuds have been opposed to such a drastic measure for obvious reasons. This will allow access to the Afghanistan via the Wazir territory for trade. Therefore, such a step now will create more acrimony than bring them back into the mainstream.

Source: DAWN.com

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^^^^ India is backing them in order to destabilise Pakistan. See what happens I guess.

I agree I was there in 07 and there weren't any issues at all.

Right because Pakistan never supported jihadis in the 80's and 90's, right?

Einstein, who supported the Taliban in the 1990s? Pakistan, obviously.

You're like every other Pakistani, unable to take responsibility for your own screw-ups. This is simply "blowback" for the Pakistanis. I'm pretty sure you blame India for losing Bangladesh, right? Because no Pakistani is ever racist against Bengalis :lol:

Pakistan essentially turned Afghanistan to another Lebanon with their mindless meddling. To me, Pakistan is no different from what Israel did to Lebanon in the civil war by supporting the fascist Phalangist devils.

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