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Marbles

Romance in a Tehran Park

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Zahra, the rights or wrongs (wrongs, imo) of what happened in those pics is beside the point. The point is the BBC using some old photos that have been circulating the net for a while (I've seen them a while ago) on it's website for no apparant reason other than to present a certain image of Iran. It seems that since the election controversy, and during it, some media outlets have been trying quite hard to push a certain agenda, with barely the thinnest veiling of their intentions. It's not the BBC's place to take a position on these things, it is an institution with public finding, not some piece of [Edited Out] Murdoch tabloid.

Iranians must deal with their government themselves, without the nefarious hand of the foreign media and agents interfering.

The BBC is bringing news of an art exhibition, what's wrong with that? The age of the photos is irrelevant, its a new exhibition opening. What is wrong with the image of Iran being presented, isn't it a true and accurate part of modern day Iran and its culture? What is the position the BBC is taking with this? Most countries would appreciate the foreign interest in their country's culture.

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The BBC is bringing news of an art exhibition, what's wrong with that? The age of the photos is irrelevant, its a new exhibition opening. What is wrong with the image of Iran being presented, isn't it a true and accurate part of modern day Iran and its culture? What is the position the BBC is taking with this? Most countries would appreciate the foreign interest in their country's culture.

Read the text beneath the pictures.

She continues: "This tells the story of young Iran. We start with a young couple sitting on a bench, sharing a joke. Then a man in a green jacket is watching them... he is standing, listening and coming closer." *Makes the religious police sound like a serial killer :lol:*

It is not interest, it is unwanted interfearance

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

Read the text beneath the pictures.

She continues: "This tells the story of young Iran. We start with a young couple sitting on a bench, sharing a joke. Then a man in a green jacket is watching them... he is standing, listening and coming closer." *Makes the religious police sound like a serial killer :lol:*

It is not interest, it is unwanted interfearance

Well that is what he was doing..

and in every country foreign media is unwanted interference.

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I would say "in love." Young people in love do things thoughtlessly and impulsively. It has little to do with exhibition or rebellion. Stop waging wars that only exist in your head.

This conflict exists in many people's heads. Therefore, it is real.

And if you think this was not done with political intentions, then I am afraid you are not very knowledgeable about Iranian society.

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

This conflict exists in many people's heads. Therefore, it is real.

And if you think this was not done with political intentions, then I am afraid you are not very knowledgeable about Iranian society.

interesting definition of reality..

I am sure that a political agenda could have been a factor. However, your post was about the individuals inside the pictures who have nothing to do with this political agenda.. that is what I was responding to

Edited by Zahratul_Islam

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This selective and manipulative propaganda has (like the many ones before it) done exactly the effect it has intended to produce, cause shock and dismay to the "enlightened" liberal ones, and cause doubt and division within Muslim ranks, and some people on this site fell for the mouse trap again.

Just let garbage stay in the trash bin where it belongs, why do people constantly dig up this stuff? Garbage is garbage.

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interesting definition of reality..

I am sure that a political agenda could have been a factor. However, your post was about the individuals inside the pictures who have nothing to do with this political agenda.. that is what I was responding to

For the record, I don't apply that definition to everything. But it certainly is applicable to conflicts. Perceived differences imply actual differences (because, at the very least, there is a perception of being different).

I am not suggesting that this is some sort of nationwide conspiracy. There is no agenda here and nothing is being accomplished. But there is a perception among those who displays affection so publicly that they are somehow fighting a struggle. They do it with the intent of getting caught. They like it because it lets them play their favorite role: the role of the oppressed youth.

This is, of course, my guess. My guess is based on experience. I think it is fairly probable that my guess is correct. Although I do not think the Park Police should concern themselves with such things, it rather cheapens love to embrace each other in a public surrounding; wouldn't you agree?

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Its all the propaganda of western countries, trying to twist things and make them look differently. They should stop pointing things out in Iranian society, rather fix their own country. They only show the images/news which serve their purpose of turning the general public against Iran. For example, a lot has been about the lady who was killed in Iran during the election time in western media, but I have not seen or heard single news about the pregnant lady, Marwa, who was murdered in Germany, even though the murderer said that I thought she was a terrorist because she was wearing hijab.

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

For the record, I don't apply that definition to everything. But it certainly is applicable to conflicts. Perceived differences imply actual differences (because, at the very least, there is a perception of being different).

I am not suggesting that this is some sort of nationwide conspiracy. There is no agenda here and nothing is being accomplished. But there is a perception among those who displays affection so publicly that they are somehow fighting a struggle. They do it with the intent of getting caught. They like it because it lets them play their favorite role: the role of the oppressed youth.

This is, of course, my guess. My guess is based on experience. I think it is fairly probable that my guess is correct. Although I do not think the Park Police should concern themselves with such things, it rather cheapens love to embrace each other in a public surrounding; wouldn't you agree?

Yes, I am sure this couple was trying to get caught and publicly humiliated, especially given the implications of this. They were two Iranian youths fighting a struggle against oppression rather than an indiscreet couple who made an impulsive, hormonally/sentimentally charged decision to publicly display affection.

Do you see where I am coming from here?

Neither of us are in a position to decide what "cheapens" their love.

Edited by Zahratul_Islam

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

^ What oppression?

Hasan Sajjad

President

That is my point.. there was NO fight against oppression. Baradar Jackson suggested that their public display of affection was part of a greater struggle against oppression. I was being sarcastic. Reread my post.

Let me reiterate myself here.. no. oppression. sarcasm.

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Fida are you serious??? You speaking as if they committed Zina in public. I never read or heard a ruling saying it is forbidden to hug your wife in public?!! Plus he is stopping them not because he thinks ,as you think that "it is yew stuff in public", he is stopping them to make sure if they are married or not! What you mean total sanity etc? The man just half-hugged her, since when Islam arrests couples for hugging in public? Disgusting to hold your wife in public?? Seriously are you joking? My parents hold hands when they take a walk and if they have not seen each other for a long time(due to travelling) they hug each other at the airport, why is it not moral? See that's why I curse 'some parts' of culture every day!

Look you can't compare holding hands and hugging, these two are different... i believe that the love and other sort of relationship between husband and wife should be private, not public... by total sanity i meant that the men who do hugging, kissing etc in public don't know the dignity of women, they are just using her out of thier lust, just to show-off... thats what i think...

Inshallah when i would get married obviously i would love my husband but that does not mean that i would show-off that love in Public or become a banner of how-much-i-love-my husband... i have read sonewhere that you are not allowed to do intimating acts in front of your children, then how come one do these acts in Public...

After having viwed these pics I felt shy, so how can people doing such acts nort feel shy??? I mean it should be private not public yaara

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW pretty birds they look so cute together

:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: MALUSH

GOD BLESS THEM

:!!!: :!!!: :!!!: :blush: :!!!: :!!!:

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Yes, I am sure this couple was trying to get caught and publicly humiliated, especially given the implications of this. They were two Iranian youths fighting a struggle against oppression rather than an indiscreet couple who made an impulsive, hormonally/sentimentally charged decision to publicly display affection.

Do you see where I am coming from here?

Neither of us are in a position to decide what "cheapens" their love.

I am not deciding with absolute certainty, and I never claimed to.

I am making an inference based on my extensive experience (i.e. being around my people and understanding their mindset).

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Read the text beneath the pictures.

She continues: "This tells the story of young Iran. We start with a young couple sitting on a bench, sharing a joke. Then a man in a green jacket is watching them... he is standing, listening and coming closer." *Makes the religious police sound like a serial killer :lol:*

It is not interest, it is unwanted interfearance

I read the captions, this kind of art is called a photo essay and the captions are telling the story. You may find it controversial, though I really don't understand why, that is the nature of much art. Leonardo Da Vinci's painting the virgin on the rock was contraversial at the time. Most great artists have produced contraversial pieces.

Different people will have different impressions, you may aliken the religious police to a serial killer others will have the impression of a diligent policeman.

Your reaction that this is interference suggest to me that you find something shameful in the depiction, something you do not wish the outside world to know. Why? Most countries are proud of their culture and welcome interest for it.

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I'd like to see BBC do a piece, with pictures, on the London CBD on a weekend early morning, say 4am.

The BBC often brings TV reports from London including all kinds of different issues including social ones from buying houses to prostitution and homelessness. Haven't you seen any? Its not like everyday life in London is something hidden. There are also plenty of foreign media free to make programs, write articles, take photos etc. of everyday life in London and there are plenty of art students and professional artists making this the subject of their art, both foreign and domestic. However its a bit more of a challenge to produce a work which really causes a stir.

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of course it's a propaganda trick, there are many other cultures throughout the world that are conservative (like saudi arabia, or, for that matter, china) and people frown on PDA's, but you don't see the BBC making it front page news

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of course it's a propaganda trick, there are many other cultures throughout the world that are conservative (like saudi arabia, or, for that matter, china) and people frown on PDA's, but you don't see the BBC making it front page news

It was not exactly front page news on the BBC.

And here is an article on Saudi from just a few days back.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8295020.stm

And some other recent articles that dont exactly portray Saudi in a good way.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/news/2009/09/090929_saudiarabia_nh_fl.shtml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8158576.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8096821.stm

Edited by Irishman

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ok well u get my point about media coverage of iran i hope

I agree the UK media coverage of Iran is generally negative, but I suppose its fair to say that Iranian news coverage of UK is not overly positive. They both try and score points against each other.

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of course it's a propaganda trick, there are many other cultures throughout the world that are conservative (like saudi arabia, or, for that matter, china) and people frown on PDA's, but you don't see the BBC making it front page news

I don't agree at all. There are reports and articles about all sorts of different societies and Saudi society is no exception. Mention of this exhibition, and the exhibition itself, could just as easily have been from Saudi and have ben given exactly the same prominence.

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We are supposed to follow the laws of the land - the couple(s) didnt.

Actually, I am surprised a(n) (unmarried?) couple thought they could publically find privacy in such a crowded city....what if her father or brother had been walking by :cry: ...or worse - some gossip who told her father and with the usual embellishments, half of the neighbourhood, as well.

We are taught never to be alone with a man - I am sure the reverse is taught. It is a slippery slope from there...most likely leading to regret.

However, I dont think you need a police state where men lurk in bushes :wacko: :sick: :wacko: looking for any couples who want to sit on a bench holding hands...sounds like something out of a George Orwell novel.

A married couple should be allowed to sit close together and enjoy the beauty of their relationship through nature. Peace, romance and tranquility are good for a society.

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I agree the UK media coverage of Iran is generally negative, but I suppose its fair to say that Iranian news coverage of UK is not overly positive. They both try and score points against each other.

This is what I don't get. Why exactly is this coverage negative? All it was showing was the enforcement of cultural values which are not shared with English society. Would you consider it negative coverage if a photoessay telling a story of a park bench in London was mentioned in Iranian media? Lets say it showed young mothers slapping their toddlers and being approached by a park warden, when the slapping from an English cultural standard was considered inappropriate but perfectly normal from an Iranian one.

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I dont think the application of this PDA law is any different for married or unmarried.

This is what I don't get. Why exactly is this coverage negative? All it was showing was the enforcement of cultural values which are not shared with English society. Would you consider it negative coverage if a photoessay telling a story of a park bench in London was mentioned in Iranian media? Lets say it showed young mothers slapping their toddlers and being approached by a park warden, when the slapping from an English cultural standard was considered inappropriate but perfectly normal from an Iranian one.

Good example.

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Actually, I am surprised a(n) (unmarried?) couple thought they could publically find privacy in such a crowded city....what if her father or brother had been walking by :cry: ...or worse - some gossip who told her father and with the usual embellishments, half of the neighbourhood, as well.

Who said they are unmarried? We don't know for sure. When I see two Muslims (male and female) holding hands or sitting on a bench side by side, I give them the benefit of the doubt, they could be married, temp married or even engaged . They are sitting in a public place where as you said their family could have seen them, so it's likely(my guess) they are married .

We are supposed to follow the laws of the land - the couple(s) didnt.

How do you know they did not? The law does not say married people are not allowed to hold hands in public. So it depends if they're married, they have not offended the laws of the land. Again, the officer stopped them to check if they are married not to stop them from holding each other.

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Who said they are unmarried? We don't know for sure. When I see two Muslims (male and female) holding hands or sitting on a bench side by side, I give them the benefit of the doubt, they could be married, temp married or even engaged . They are sitting in a public place where as you said their family could have seen them, so it's likely(my guess) they are married .

How do you know they did not? The law does not say married people are not allowed to hold hands in public. So it depends if they're married, they have not offended the laws of the land. Again, the officer stopped them to check if they are married not to stop them from holding each other.

OK - I am misinformed. I was told by an Iranian that there were no PDA's - married or unmarried. So my mistake. If married are allowed PDA - then the oficer walking away with the couple would imply, to me, that they were not married.

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ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã æ ÑÍãÉ Çááå æ ÈÑßÇÊå - Peace be upon you, as well as Allah's pity and his blessings

Çááøåã Õáø Úáì ãÍãøÏ æ Âáå ÇáØøíøÈíä ÇáØÇåÑíä - May Allah's blessing be upon Mu7ammad and his Generous and Pure Family

ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑøÍãä ÇáÑøÍíã - In the name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful

ÚÙøã Çááøå ÃÌæÑßã Úáì ãÕÇÈ ÇáÅãÇã ÌÚÝÑ ÇáÕÇÏÞ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã - May Allah increase your good deeds for the loss of the Imâm Ja3far al-9âdi8 -as-

---

Hello everybody

Everyone's opinion is important, and i admit i have mine, which is not in the same line of thought of many of you here.

  1. How do you know if the couple are married or un married? If they are married, will you check if the marriage is valid or not? If they are married temporarily, will you ask for a certificate (which is not mandatory should i recall...)? Don't you think it's private life for both people?
  2. If i get married (insha Allah -swt-), i imagine myself hugging my wife, taking her hand, kissing her from time to time, but NOT MAKING OUT! Which these people were not doing. It's a simple display of affection true, but nothing shocking.
  3. I'm the kind of man who likes to show his affection or love to his friends and family. If i hug my mum in the streets, should someone check if she is my mum? In my 7usêniyya around Paris, i'm so happy everytime i meet the other people which i really consider as good friends and brothers: should i avoid hugging them in public because the police may think that i'm gay? (asta'3firu Allah -swt-).
  4. I don't like the saudi mu6awwa, and i disagree abour having a similar one in Iraq...
  5. If i got it well, Islam is against abuse in any kind: there should not be any abuse between the couple (not getting too much into it), and there should not be any abuse from the police (not getting too intrusive).

And i don't have any information on how "everyday" life was between the Messenger Mu7ammad -sA3aws- and '7adîja bint '7uwêlid -3s-, and between Imâm 3alî bin Abî 6âlib -3s- and Fâ6ima bint Mu7ammad -3s-. But i'd like to believe that as both couples really liked each other, they don't hesitate on some SIMPLE kinds of affection.

End of the line (and excuse my french...): if the girl was all over the man or vice versa and they were getting into something "hot", i admit the police should stop them and get them for questioning and a warning! But that was clearly not the case.

In my mind Islam is a religion of freedom, let's keep it this way...

---

æ Úáíßã ÇáÓáÇã æ ÑÍãÉ Çááå æ ÈÑßÇÊå - And upon you be peace, as well as Allah's pity and his blessings

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You have a wild imagination!

Yeah I'm sure this photographer got a real turn on! This doesn't come close to BBC limits. I wonder how you manage out here in cyber space with all the images, it must be terribly traumatic for you!

Anyway why isn't Marbles just as sick as the BBC for spreading such smuck?

are you telling me that the first picture is ROMANTIC!!! is that romantism for you!?

concerning my part:

they are sick because it is act of voyeurism.

may i add also, they -BBC- are propagandist... they do not show us why the police officer stepped to them... they show picture, then police.. what happened between is not shown and we do not have any idea.. may be the policeman have seen something that is not shown in pictures.. there is a gap..

I would say "in love." Young people in love do things thoughtlessly and impulsively. It has little to do with exhibition or rebellion. Stop waging wars that only exist in your head.

Why are they sick? They are curious about something that is foreign and alien to them. It is an interesting dynamic that was captured on camera, and I found it entertaining.

I didn't see any kissing. I am sure they were unaware of being filmed (a tad naive) or watched (a tad stupid), but they were certainly not displaying any inappropriate amount of affection. I don't know what "blah blah" means, but if it means holding hands I can't quite seem to muster up the same amount of outrage about that.

Likewise. It makes me feel horribly awkward.

I think you are taking this way too far and reading too deeply into what seems to be a few harmless photos meant to highlight the very real cultural difference, coupled with the very similar human inclinations between Iran and the West. It is interesting.. nothing more unless you take it to mean something more. People who disagree with a government involving itself in these matters will find themselves outraged, and people who accept that Iran is a theocracy with a moralistic aspect (in accordance with Islamic law) to its government will find this reasonable. Predicting the rise of Islam as a hegemony while denouncing hegemonic secularism in the same breath seems ironic.

Very true.

Why? Do you live overseas? Presumably because people already know what goes on and are able to see it, which makes it much less interesting.

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are you telling me that the first picture is ROMANTIC!!! is that romantism for you!?

concerning my part:

they are sick because it is act of voyeurism.

may i add also, they -BBC- are propagandist... they do not show us why the police officer stepped to them... they show picture, then police.. what happened between is not shown and we do not have any idea.. may be the policeman have seen something that is not shown in pictures.. there is a gap..

Yeah, I don't have any problem seeing a romantic connection there. He's got an arm around her and they have an enclosed common intiment space. What is romantic for you?

I see no reason to believe there was any sexual motivation, what do you base that on? Is it really possible for anyone to get any sexual satisfaction out of watching a young couple like this on a park bench?

Its a work of art. If there's any propaganda in it then its not the BBC but the artist. I have no reason to believe that it isn't an accurate portrait of an everyday mundane ocurrence.

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Yeah, I don't have any problem seeing a romantic connection there. He's got an arm around her and they have an enclosed common intiment space. What is romantic for you?

I see no reason to believe there was any sexual motivation, what do you base that on? Is it really possible for anyone to get any sexual satisfaction out of watching a young couple like this on a park bench?

Its a work of art. If there's any propaganda in it then its not the BBC but the artist. I have no reason to believe that it isn't an accurate portrait of an everyday mundane ocurrence.

if you see that romantic then it is your problem... if you believe that there is no missing scenes then that is your problem

if you think that secretly photographing people is completely normal.. that that is your problem

i see nothing wrong in Police questioning an "Unusual" or "Suspect" action...

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This is what I don't get. Why exactly is this coverage negative? All it was showing was the enforcement of cultural values which are not shared with English society.

what news a media organization chooses to report as well as how they report it is not accidental. there are billions of news stories they could have chosen and they chose this one. you have to look at the subtext - what is the implied message behind it? was it really a story of 'look, iran is different than the uk, but we're all equal live humans and accept each other's differences and live happily ever after'?

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This reminds me of the time when my fiance and I were sitting under the shade of a tree in a tehran park in a hot summer day. We were just talking and since I travel alot to different places, i know to be respectful of local customs regardless of my own views. We were disturbed by a very rude and intrusive policeman. I was left in utter awe, I did not know what I did wrong because sharing a park bench with a female was not against the law from what I had seen. Then I realized that I had new clothes on. See some in Islamic Republic get mad when they see an Afghan (an inferior sect) doing better than them.

But coming to the pictures on the bbc, its politically motivated to demean and degrade the Islamic Regime.

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I read the captions, this kind of art is called a photo essay and the captions are telling the story. You may find it controversial, though I really don't understand why, that is the nature of much art. Leonardo Da Vinci's painting the virgin on the rock was contraversial at the time. Most great artists have produced contraversial pieces.

Different people will have different impressions, you may aliken the religious police to a serial killer others will have the impression of a diligent policeman.

Your reaction that this is interference suggest to me that you find something shameful in the depiction, something you do not wish the outside world to know. Why? Most countries are proud of their culture and welcome interest for it.

What is the point of the publication of these pictures by the BBC on its Middle East front page? Is it not to portray Iran in a negative light? A westerner reading it would directly have the sterotypical impression reiterated, of Iran being an oppressive state which lacks basic freedoms. This is obviously not the case, and Iran being a conservative Islamic nation, has the full right to dictate its own moral standards, and what is acceptable.

This has nothing to do with art, but is yet another politically motivated piece of jibberish propoganda by the BBC to influene peoples attitude towards Iran.

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