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Orion

Dawoodi Bohra beliefs and practices.

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Br. Fakhruddin,

You still did not answer my questions. I did not ask you where the money is spent. I asked:

Do Bohris have to pay all these seven different types of taxes or not???????

Is it true that Bohris are not allowed to give charity (fitra, zakat) directly to the poor and everything goes to the Dai?????

Is it true that even the dead are not spaired of a tax like Haqqun Nafs and the dead body is not allowed to be burred until the relatives pay up??????

Is it a Bohri belief that the dead would go to hell without this note to God (ruku chitthi)??????

Is it true that Bohri leaders live in a palaces while ordinary Bohris live in poverty????

And I am still waiting for you to tell me if Bohris do Sijda to Sayedina or not?????

Two wrongs dont make one right.

Being a Bohri all your life I think it is very hard for you to see what is wrong with this story. What you are saying is that a person has to PAY money to meet Sayedna??????????? Very strange!

Did the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) ask money to meet people?

Did Maula Ali (salam) ask money to meet people?

I can meet any of the Shia scholars and leaders today without paying a penny? I can shake their hand, ask for dua, ask questions, etc without spending anything.

What kind of religion you follow in which the leaders have to be paid money to meet or shake hands with???????????

WS

Brother Orion. You don't understand do you. And body can meet Dai, but this man whole life he was just asking to meet syedna and would pray day and night. Syedna knew about it and he tested him was his love true or no..

I guess your shia scholar don't have that spiritual capability to know first hand like our Dai.

Your leaders are just the ordinary human being. But our dais are representative of Imam uz Zaman.

For your knowledge, There was a ayat which was later taken back by Allah. Allah ordained that anybody who wish to meet Mohammed Prophet (TUS) had to first give xxx amount of money. When this ayat came, everybody resisted. Imam Ali at that very moment sold what ever he had and collected dinars and gave to Prophet (s.a) for his audience. After this Allah took back this ayat from Quran. This was test which Allah want to show, how much Maula Ali loved Mohammed Prophet.

In same way this man also showed his love for dai and was award by Allah. He was poor his whole life time, but by giving what he had to dai, Allah gave him everything.

Any shia who has immense love for Alhe-Bait would understand the underlying meaning.

Also a Dai of Imam uz Zaman can do such things or act in such a way because he knows what is going be, since he has command over seen and unseen with authority by Imam uz Zaman.

Surely your shia leaders can't do this because they have no such power or authority right!!

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Brother Orion. You don't understand do you. And body can meet Dai, but this man whole life he was just asking to meet syedna and would pray day and night. Syedna knew about it and he tested him was his love true or no..

I guess your shia scholar don't have that spiritual capability to know first hand like our Dai.

Your leaders are just the ordinary human being. But our dais are representative of Imam uz Zaman.

For your knowledge, There was a ayat which was later taken back by Allah. Allah ordained that anybody who wish to meet Mohammed Prophet (TUS) had to first give xxx amount of money. When this ayat came, everybody resisted. Imam Ali at that very moment sold what ever he had and collected dinars and gave to Prophet (s.a) for his audience. After this Allah took back this ayat from Quran. This was test which Allah want to show, how much Maula Ali loved Mohammed Prophet.

In same way this man also showed his love for dai and was award by Allah. He was poor his whole life time, but by giving what he had to dai, Allah gave him everything.

Any shia who has immense love for Alhe-Bait would understand the underlying meaning.

Also a Dai of Imam uz Zaman can do such things or act in such a way because he knows what is going be, since he has command over seen and unseen with authority by Imam uz Zaman.

Surely your shia leaders can't do this because they have no such power or authority right!!

Now we know one more thing about the Da'i of Dawoodi Bohras. He has ilm-al-ghayb, the knowledge of the unseen.

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^brother fakhruddin miracles arent the proof of any thing...but i will say the work done by syednaa sahaab is out standing i really appreciate it as a service to islam and shiaism.

Now we know one more thing about the Da'i of Dawoodi Bohras. He has ilm-al-ghayb, the knowledge of the unseen.

i am not surprise at all

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Now we know one more thing about the Da'i of Dawoodi Bohras. He has ilm-al-ghayb, the knowledge of the unseen.

To Mr. Marbles.. He has very sarcastically made a statement. For his marbles i present one more Mozizaa of current Dai. A first had account of a person.

Only true lover of Alhe bait will understant, they will not.

Interviews of people whose lives have been touched by the grace of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb, TUS

Following interview of Haiderbhai Kohdawala, Calcutta, by Mudar Patherya:

THIS HAPPENED in the late Nineties. I would walk 20 steps aney mara muscles stiff thayi jayi (my muscles use to stiffen), requiring me to rest. Within six months, the degeneration had spread to my hand muscles. I would hold a glass and it would slip and break; I would take a ‘nivaala’ aney jaman giri jayi (take food in my hand and would fall). I switched six doctors in the hope that with advanced medical science to support them, at least one of them would be able to fix the problem. But the reality was that from mobility I was progressively bedridden. Completely. Bed pan and everything. And only at 35.

Pachi ek (Then one) neurosurgeon suggested the name of specialist called Dr Chatterjee. On his recommendation, I was admitted to the CMRI hospital in Kolkata. The hospital’s diagnosis: polynyosites. As part of a test, needles were inserted into my body and rotated. The test confirmed the disease in which the voluntary muscles are affected first, the involuntary muscles thereafter and then followed by the vital organs. As a result, the doctors shook their heads and confessed that I was building towards an imminent heart attack. Based on this prognosis, I was administered steroids. My last chance.

The steroids had little effect. Even as I had earlier been able to lift my legs and hands, my muscles had now stopped functioning completely. The doctor shook his head. I could see myself wasting away in some hospital room. Wanting to live but waiting to die.

That is when I felt that I needed to make a personal arzi(request) to the Dai of the day. One had been brought up on stories of what he had done for others; I was only 25 with two children. I needed to appeal to him to save me. Last chance.

There was no way I could go to Huzurala(Syedna) so I placed his photograph on my chest. I entreated: ‘Maula! Mara kaya gunaah chhey jena sabab aa bimari aavi chhey? Maula! Mara nana farzando nu su thaase? Why do I have to suffer like this? For what sins am I being punished? I have small kids. Tamne mane jawaab aapwoj padse!’You will have to answer me.

I kept ‘talking’ to him. Once. Twice. Half a dozen times. A dozen times. Thereafter I fell asleep on my hospital bed late in the night in Kolkata.

Thereafter, this is what I saw. A ‘presence’ in the room. Huzurala (Syedna) himself.

Maula mara qadam na nazdeek khada chhey (Syedna is standing next to me). Maula mane ek kaagal aapo aney farmayu ke aama je likhu chhey yeh padho.(Syedna gave me a letter and said read what is written in the letter). I read: ‘Ehde nas-siraat al mustaqeem’. Aqa Maula yeh farmayu ke kagal phiraao. (Syedna said now turn the letter). When I did I found Aqa Maula’s mohor (Stamp of Syedna). I rubbed it on my lips and forehead. Suddenly mein ekdum bed par uchhlo – Suddenly i jumped a few inches off the bed - aney mari aankh khuli gayi!(And my eyes opened)

I turned around to see Huzurala sitting in the visitors’ chair in my room; the vision gradually faded.

After this powerful ‘encounter’, my first reaction was to offer a sajda in gratitude. Mein uthi ne sajdo bajaayo ane ghano royo. (I got up and did sajda and Wept and wept). Completely therapeutic. That is when I realized that something unusual had not only happened but was still happening … aa sajda na baad pehli cheez je maara zehen ma aavi ke aa sajdo mein kai tarah si bajaayo. (After this sajda first thing i thaught was how did I performed this sajda) I mean, for the last number of months I had been completely immobilised!

That was the turning point of my life. Thereafter, the improvement was rapid. The doctor was more amazed than I was. For someone who had not seen Huzurala and for someone who hypothetically trusted medicine over miracle, he simply said ‘Your guruji saved you!’

I am in my mid-forties today and for someone who could not lift a finger at one time, I lift 15 kgs thaals single-handedly as a part of my niyaaz e Husain khidmat in Calcutta today!

Only Aqa Maula did it.

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To Mr. Marbles.. He has very sarcastically made a statement. For his marbles i present one more Mozizaa of current Dai. A first had account of a person.

I apologise if you felt that my post was non-serious and sarcastic. I assure you that it wasn't the intention. I singled out the matter of Da'i's ilm-al-ghayb from your post and highlighted it separately for the readers of this thread as I found it interesting. Just that.

As for rest of your post with the miracle, I didn't read it. This is not rocket science to see where these miracles come from. All religions and all factions within a religion claim miracles for their holy persons. So a religion can't be shown to be true by recounting unverifiable miraculous occurrences. That requires solid proof.

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I apologise if you felt that my post was non-serious and sarcastic. I assure you that it wasn't the intention. I singled out the matter of Da'i's ilm-al-ghayb from your post and highlighted it separately for the readers of this thread as I found it interesting. Just that.

As for rest of your post with the miracle, I didn't read it. This is not rocket science to see where these miracles come from. All religions and all factions within a religion claim miracles for their holy persons. So a religion can't be shown to be true by recounting unverifiable miraculous occurrences. That requires solid proof.

Ya Allah.

I too apologise for my remarks. Please forgive me.

I agree religious group claim miracles for their leaders.

But those where thing of past. Today tell me which religious group can claim for their current living leader. can you claim??

We are presenting the solid proof, the living people in 2009 who have been benefited are testifying. If you don't consider this as solid proof, then i wonder we have to call angels only to testify. Okay i will provide a testimony of a Hindu Idol worshipper also:

Interviews of people whose lives have been touched by the grace of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb, TUS

Following interview of Jayesh Patel, The Crystal Shop, New Delhi, by Mudar Patherya:

I am a Hindu by birth and belief. I can also state that the person singularly responsible for the turning point in my spiritual and psychic existence has been Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb. And I have met him for no more than four minutes in my life.

Amazed?

Read my story: I had been commissioned by the Dahod jamaat to provide it with a large chandelier (8 ft diameter, 8 ft height) for its newly built masjid in 2001. When the masjid was inaugurated by Syedna saheb, I flew down with my wife Sangeeta to be present. I was fortunate enough to be allocated a brief audience; I went into Syedna saheb’s presence with a crystal gift. What struck me was that instead of merely touching each of the gifts that he would receive before they were collected by a devotee standing nearby, he received our gift with two hands and held it before passing it on for safekeeping. In turn, Syedna saheb most graciously presented us with a shawl, which we recognised was his way of reciprocating the respect we had shown. We spoke for about four minutes during which time he asked us about our work and our shop in Delhi.

I presented a gift. He presented a gift. Exchanged pleasantries. End of matter?

Not quite. I referred this exchange and experience to my longstanding guide and philosopher. He remarked that if a personage like Syedna saheb had given me a shawl then there was a deeper meaning behind it. It cannot be an ordinary shawl, he said. Drape the shawl and meditate on auspicious nights, he added.

Over the next few weeks, we encountered a family mishap. My 75-year-old father was struck with a paralytic stroke. One side of his body was completely affected. When something like this happens at that age, there is little hope. That is when I remembered the shawl. I put it to an immediate test; I wore it at the appointed hour, sat in meditation and prayed. Within a week, my father was recovered. Fully.

In the following months, more experiences transpired. I started getting visions of what would transpire to people. If I was speaking to a lady, I would inexplicably get a feeling that there was something wrong with her married life; besides, the solution would emerge unprompted. If I was speaking to a long-lost cousin in Penang, I could ‘see’ her house with clarity, the problems she was facing and be able to suggest solutions. They would begin to wonder….how does an ordinary chandelier maker know all this about us?

And then there is the influence that the shawl has had on my professional well-being. Within a short while of being presented the shawl, my company completed an unprecedented order of having supplied 52 (coincidence!) chandeliers to Uday Vilas in Udaipur (now rated as possibly the finest hotel in the world). Over the years, our reputation as one of India’s finest chandelier craftsmen was convincingly established.

More than anything, there has been a remarkable change in our positioning and confidence. It is like the shawl has emerged as a ‘kavach’ – nobody can do us any harm.

Instead of inspiring smugness, the shawl has inspired responsibility. Instead of providing answers, the shawl has generated questions: Who am I? What is my connection with the Syedna saheb? Who was I in my previous birth? How am I connected to the Dawoodi Bohras? Why is there an increasing incidence of Bohras in my life?

And I can state with conviction that my spiritual and material rebirth in the last few years started with the shawl that I received from the Syedna saheb in 2002.

A number of people may see it as just another piece of cloth. And a few may see it differently.

And therein lies the story.

For further reading

http://www.bohranet.com/lives_touched_by_huzurala_tus

This is the link where all the miracles are been complied, its a ongoing process. We as a bohris are never bother what other think about us. Site is for benefit of our members.

And brother Marbles mozizaa and noble characters of All 52 dai's can't be a coincidence. If you believe from past 1000 years only coincidence is happening, then there is something wrong with us or you..

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Few more photos of Kufa Masjid

haram_00.jpg

masjid has been renovated by us.

masjid_12.jpg

haram_01.jpg

haram_02.jpg

masjid_11.jpg

haram_03.jpg

masjid_15.jpg

See how Bismillah is written over the Meharab where Aqa Imam Ali was strike by Ibn Muljim (LA)

Meharab has been rebuilt by us and Bismillah over it is written in Syedna Mohammed burhaunddin handwriting.

masjid_17.jpg

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The author of that article on taxes, Asghar Ali Engineer, is a Bohri himself so you cant just dismiss him, he knows what hes talking about. He is from the Progresive Dawoodi Bohra movement - group of Bohras who have retained their theological beliefs as well as practices but have rejected the leadership of the present da'i. I have met many of them and all of them will tell you - Bohras under the da'i are being taxed to death, apparently there is a fixed amount (and a substantial one at that) that you have to pay regardless of whether you even earn any money or not.

Lovely people by the way.

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http://www.malumaat....r/item/627.html

@ orion i am sure this shia scholar didnt paid any thing to meet his holiness

Bfo shoelace,

I am not a Bohri and I dont know, I have heard and read things and I am just asking questions.

If anyone could meet him without paying any money thats good...... Just say so.

If the article about all the taxes is a lie...... just say so.

If Bohris dont do sajda to the Dai..... just say so.

But so far it has been a difficult task to get streight answers from Br. Fakharuddin. He seems to get upset and defensive with each question and does not give a yes or no answer. And this leads people to think that he is hiding something or that these rumors are true and he cant deny them.

WS

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(salam)

Thank you for posting these pictures. They are very beautiful.

Throughout the history of the Shrines in Iraq, they have been many personalities from India who have contributed very significantly towards the building and maintenance of the mosques and tombs of the ahlul bayt, their family and their friends. May god bless them.

Shoelac also said right Imam Ali, Imam Hussein would not allow a fake to build their mashahads.

I don't think the dead have any control to their tomb or mosque. If they had, do you think the 2 caliphs would have been buried beside the Holy Prophet (sawa)? :blink:

But those where thing of past. Today tell me which religious group can claim for their current living leader. can you claim??

What are you claiming exactly? That there is a leader that represents your sect (school of thought)?

Most sects do have some sort of leaders. Even the cultist like the David Koresh of Waco fame or Aum Shinrikyo of the Japanese cult claimed to be in direct command with the chain of authority.

If we follow your logic, you have to admit that your own brethren, the followers of Aga Khan have it better than you. They have the living Imam currently living among them. So, I am not sure why you think you are at a position of advantage when you are obviously not. :unsure:

I guess your shia scholar don't have that spiritual capability to know first hand like our Dai.

Your leaders are just the ordinary human being. But our dais are representative of Imam uz Zaman.

Your first sentence is pretty offensive. :huh:

As for your second sentence, I am not surprised you are still making this claim. The whole Ismaili history (since the establishment of the Fatimid Empire in Cairo) is based on making grand claims to be either on the speaking term with the Imam or the God. You are free to believe whatever you want. But most people do require some form of evidence. Otherwise your claim is nothing but blind faith. :squeez:

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I guess your shia scholar don't have that spiritual capability to know first hand like our Dai.

Your leaders are just the ordinary human being. But our dais are representative of Imam uz Zaman.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Actually our scholars do have such spiritual capabilities. We call them "Karamat". But we don't use them as "proof" to convince others. In our school, Ayats of Quran, Hadith from the Prophet (pbuh) and Ahlul Bait (as) and sound intellectual arguments is considered "solid proof".

Allah has mentioned the Karamat of Asif Barqia in Quran. He was able to bring the throne of Queen Saba to Prophet Suleman (as)

He (Prophet Suleman) said (to his own men): "Ye chiefs! which of you can bring me her throne before they come to me in submission?"

Said an 'Ifrit, of the Jinns: "Iwill bring it to thee before thou rise from thy council: indeed I havefull strength for the purpose, and may be trusted."

Said one who had knowledge of theBook: "I will bring it to thee within the twinkling of an eye!" Thenwhen (Solomon) saw it placed firmly before him, he said: "This is bythe Grace of my Lord!- to test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful!and if any is grateful, truly his gratitude is (a gain) for his ownsoul; but if any is ungrateful, truly my Lord is Free of all Needs,Supreme in Honour !" (Quran 27:38-40)

The point is that Asif Barqia could perform this Karamat since he had knowledge of the book.

I can quote several Karamats and spiritual capabilities of our scholars. Ayatullah Taqi Bahjat who passed away a few months back was famous for his spiritual capabilities. Even my family has witnessed one of his karamats.

But these spiritual capabilities are used to help others. They are not used as "proof" to convince people in religious discussions. For that scholars use ayats, hadith and intellectual arguments in their discussions and lectures. They write books, not about miracles they could perform but about the pearles of wisdom they have collected from the ayats of quran and sayings of Ahlul Bait (as).

Imam Hussain (as) did not show miracles in Karbala to convince his opponents. He lectured them and reminded them about the din of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh).

WS

Edited by Orion

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Brother Fakhruddin,

Here is another question I want to ask. This question has nothing to do with progressive Bohras. I have heard some people say this but I dont know if this is true or not. And so I am asking the question.

As you know both Shia athna asharis and Bohris follow Imams. The first few Imams (as) are common among both groups. But there are Imams that Shia athna asharis follow and Bohris dont since they have their own line of Imams which is different from what we have.

-Some people say that Bohris curse (send lanats) on those Imams (as) that they don't follow but Shia athna asharis do. Is that true?

I have not seen any Bohris at the graves of those Imams (as) that they don't follow.

A clear answer on this issue will be highly appreciated.

Thanks.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Brother Fakhruddin,

Here is another question I want to ask. This question has nothing to do with progressive Bohras. I have heard some people say this but I dont know if this is true or not. And so I am asking the question.

As you know both Shia athna asharis and Bohris follow Imams. The first few Imams (as) are common among both groups. But there are Imams that Shia athna asharis follow and Bohris dont since they have their own line of Imams which is different from what we have.

-Some people say that Bohris curse (send lanats) on those Imams (as) that they don't follow but Shia athna asharis do. Is that true?

I have not seen any Bohris at the graves of those Imams (as) that they don't follow.

A clear answer on this issue will be highly appreciated.

Thanks.

No brother Bohras never do this. Bohra will only send lanats on assissns or people who have troubled Panjatan Pak.(a.s)

we are not seen at the graves of other Imams (as) because we don't follow.

A clear answer.

For other questions i will answer you.. Inshallah.

Please no offense in that. I ask for forgiveness for any wrong words used against you or if you felt bad.

WS

(salam)

Thank you for posting these pictures. They are very beautiful.

Throughout the history of the Shrines in Iraq, they have been many personalities from India who have contributed very significantly towards the building and maintenance of the mosques and tombs of the ahlul bayt, their family and their friends. May god bless them.

I don't think the dead have any control to their tomb or mosque. If they had, do you think the 2 caliphs would have been buried beside the Holy Prophet (sawa)? :blink:

What are you claiming exactly? That there is a leader that represents your sect (school of thought)?

Most sects do have some sort of leaders. Even the cultist like the David Koresh of Waco fame or Aum Shinrikyo of the Japanese cult claimed to be in direct command with the chain of authority.

If we follow your logic, you have to admit that your own brethren, the followers of Aga Khan have it better than you. They have the living Imam currently living among them. So, I am not sure why you think you are at a position of advantage when you are obviously not. :unsure:

Your first sentence is pretty offensive. :huh:

As for your second sentence, I am not surprised you are still making this claim. The whole Ismaili history (since the establishment of the Fatimid Empire in Cairo) is based on making grand claims to be either on the speaking term with the Imam or the God. You are free to believe whatever you want. But most people do require some form of evidence. Otherwise your claim is nothing but blind faith. :squeez:

Brother Zareen. Please reading the previous post with Marbles and Orion,in whose context i posted my reply. Please don't pick few lines and reply. You need to read entire post.

bro fakhruddin how many shia dawoodi bohra in world ?

Brother Shoelace I don't have any no's for that, but interestingly all the bohris in the world have a unique username and password for a site where they can register for any events and other bohra resources in the world.

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No brother Bohras never do this. Bohra will only send lanats on assissns or people who have troubled Panjatan Pak.(a.s)

we are not seen at the graves of other Imams (as) because we don't follow.

A clear answer.

For other questions i will answer you.. Inshallah.

Please no offense in that. I ask for forgiveness for any wrong words used against you or if you felt bad.

WS

(salam)

Thank you so much for your clear answer.

I also ask for forgiveness for anything that may have offended you.

WS

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(salam)e

Thank you for posting these pictures. They are very beautiful.

I don't think the dead have any control to their tomb or mosque. If they had, do you think the 2 caliphs would have been buried beside the Holy Prophet (sawa)? :blink:

are u sure u are shia? if yes how dare u to say ahlul bayt is dead?

maula who controls whole qaayenaat and he cant control who can built is own zarih?

I am sure maula Ali will never accept service of building zarih if syedna sahaab is corrupt (naudobillah).

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are u sure u are shia? if yes how dare u to say ahlul bayt is dead?

maula who controls whole qaayenaat and he cant control who can built is own zarih?

I am sure maula Ali will never accept service of building zarih if syedna sahaab is corrupt (naudobillah).

Just to give a perspective of Alhe-bait are not dead. I provide two authentic facts for Bro Zareen

1. After taking correct measurement of Maula Abbas Alamdar old Zarih, We constructed new Zarih in Mumbai. New Zarih for Maula Abbas Alamdar was shipped to Karballa. But to everybodys surprise, Zarih just won't fit over the qabr mubarak. All the bohra architectures were astonish how could this happen. After precise measurements and months of construction, they could not go wrong.

Matter was informed to Syedna. He said take Zarih from Maula Abbas Alamdar and place it over Rasul Hussain in Cairo.

Subahnallah, a miracle, Zarih fitted over Rasul Hussain in Cairo as if it was made for it.

Syedna said this is love of Maula Abbas Alamdar for Imam Hussien. how can he have a new Zarih when Head of Hussain lies in old zarih in Cairo.

2. When we where renovating the minarets of Maula Abbas Alamdar Haram shareef.A strange thing happened, we use to work on one wall in the day, next day we would find the work has fallen down from the wall. Every day this use to happen and the workers got puzzled. Matter was referred to Syedna. He said inquire whether Imam hussein Haram Shareef walls are intact. On investigation it was found, on some walls work had fallen. We repair Imam Hussein haram Shareef wall. Once that was done Maula Abbas Alamdar wall work also got completed.

Immense love of Maula Abbas Alamdar (s.a) for Imam hussien (s.a) even after death.

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