Shocking and Sad

[TheHealer]

A few days ago , as some of you might be aware of , there was this post mentioning the launch of shiachat.com , a website dedicated to translating books of Shiite Urdu writers into standard English Texts. Having never read any Urdu Shiite book ( find Urdu very very difficult to read), i decided to take a sneek peek. But i was in for a huge shock, the book Kashaful Aqaid by one Syed Baqir Nisar Zaidi , is to put it mildly, an insult to Tawheed.

The author quotes Quranic verses and Hadith randomly, curses( you can pick it from the tone of the text) the Ayatollahs of Qum, curses usoolis and what not.

Now the thing is , the concept of the whole book is to elevate the status of Ali almost tantamount to Allah(SWT) , to quote a sentence from its text, it alleges Ali(AS) said ," i am the creator of the universe and so on....."And the author goes in his high handedness to claim these are the REAL Shiite principles !! The concept being Allah made Ali(AS) to create the universe, I know in the past we have been having discourses and disscussions about Wilayat e Taqwenia( what it really means) and Tafwid etc, but this book takes it to an all together different level. And its just one book, wonder what others like it on the website would be preaching.....

The author has totally tried to redefine Gullu and Shirk, you need to read it to believe it.........its scary.

Now the reason i brought it up, is to know whether this is an isolated incident or a main stream LAYMAN view in the Urdu speaking world( surely it cant be...) ?

Have refutations and rebuttals been given to authors such as these ? Or are they having a niche' readership ? or is it main stream ? What is the common perception of Shiites of Pakistan ( presumibily the author is from there) and India on such works...........Lastly is this particular group having firm base in the sub continent, since these`works are being translated, website(s) dedicated to them et all....More so is it the traditional Akhbari view ? And the most important thing, is the Sectarian voilence in Pakistan related to such things ?

Plus while visiting the website forum, you will come across topics like Khameni Exposed.......... One could comprehend it, if say it was an Akhbari oriented website , but the views that it propagates regarding Shiite principles, is confusing to say the least, therefore, the question whether these are standard Akhbari prinicples....more so when a certain member ( yes, bro Alhumdullilah/ Trailblazer the same one you were suspecting to be a middle aged man pretending to be a female revert !!!!) in the past here on shiachat has expressed the same views quite stongly, albiet in a toned down version.......

NOTE: this is not a thread to pit Usoolis against Akhbaris, its to know who these people are)

Wasallam

[AbdullaQ]

I am interested. Eagerly waiting to learn.

Peace

[yassameen]

are you sure the one behinde it are shias?

[TheHealer]

are you sure the one behinde it are shias?

Ya, looks like it..........they are

[SpIzo]

They are neither Usulis nor Akhbaris (although they pretend to be), they are malangs. Do a search on ShiaChat, there have been many threads on their beliefs. Here is one:

I'd also like to add that malangs are more predominant in Pakistan than in India.

[yassameen]

thanks sis

so they are not shia after all ,but that should be clear , imean they shouldnt walk with shia tag over their heads

and i would ask : do they have anything to do with sectarian tension in pakistan

[SpIzo]

so they are not shia after all ,but that should be clear , imean they shouldnt walk with shia tag over their heads

Even in malangs, there are different kinds [with different beliefs]. So I wouldn't be too quick to judge and declare all of them as non-Shi'i. They claim to be Shi'is, but of a different kind.

and i would ask : do they have anything to do with sectarian tension in pakistan

Most likely, although I don't know.

The new forum which brother fahim is talking about has been discussed [and refuted] here: and the website here:

Edited September 14, 2009 by SpIzo

[yassameen]

Even in malangs, there are different kinds [with different beliefs]. So I wouldn't be too quick to judge and declare all of them as non-Shi'i. They claim to be Shi'is, but of a different kind.

Most likely, although I don't know.

The new forum which brother fahim is talking about has been discussed [and refuted] here: and the website here:

thanks sis for clarification

[Basim Ali]

(salam),

I feel guilty of asking people to join it in the first place... :blush:

(wasalam)

Basim Ali Jafri

[786abdullah786]

do they have anything to do with sectarian tension in pakistan

Im sure they do. If their views disturb mainstream shias greatly, just think of the sunni reaction.

[toyibonline]

(salam),

I feel guilty of asking people to join it in the first place... :blush:

(wasalam)

Basim Ali Jafri

(salam)

I read that book. Very long. And I had to just scan through it at a later stage. I am not sure if I am right. But, I think the entire book revolves around one particular concept: Wilayat Takwiniyyah. For instance, we read:

[shakir 32:5] He regulates the affair from the heaven to the earth; then shall it ascend to Him in a day the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count.

[shakir 10:31] Say: Who gives you sustenance from the heaven and the earth? Or Who controls the hearing and the sight? And Who brings forth the living from the dead, and brings forth the dead from the living? And Who regulates the affairs? Then they will say: Allah. Say then: Will you not then guard (against evil)?

However, Allah (swt) actually regulates the affairs through His creatures:

[shakir 79:5] Then those who regulate the affair.

This is the commentary of this verse is Tafsir al-Jalalayn (English translation):

and by those that direct the affair, [by] the angels who direct the affairs of this world, that is to say, they descend with the directions for it [from God] (the response to all of these oath clauses has been omitted, understood to be [something like], la-tub‘athunna yā kuffāra Makka, ‘you shall certainly be resurrected, O disbelievers of Mecca!’, which is also the operator of [the following clause])

This is Ibn Kathir’s own commentary of the verse in his Tafsir (English translation):

(And by those who arrange affairs.) `Ali, Mujahid, `Ata', Abu Salih, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ar-Rabi` bin Anas, and As-Suddi all said, "They are the angels.'' Al-Hasan added, "They control the affairs from the heaven to the earth, meaning by the command of their Lord, the Mighty and Majestic.''

A book that compiles Ibn Abbas’ (ra) commentaries, Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs (English translation), records this commentary of the verse from him:

(And those who govern the event) and He swears by the angels who govern the matters of the slaves, meaning Gabriel, Michael, Seraphiel and the angel of death. It is said that (those who govern the event) refers to the spears of soldiers, (the meteors rushing) refers to the ropes of soldiers and (the lone stars floating) refers to the ships of soldiers who fight at sea, (the ones who do the hastening) refers to the horses of soldiers, while (those who govern the event) refers to the generals of soldiers; it is also said that (the lone stars floating) refer to the sun, the moon, the day and the night. Allah swore by all these that the two blowings of the trumpet will take place, with an interval of 40 years separating the two blowings.

Another example is this:

[Yusufali 21:91] And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.

[Yusufali 66:12] And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).

However, it was actually Hadrat Jibril (as) who breathed into her. This is how Tafsir Jalalayn interprets Qur’an 66:12:

And Mary (wa-Maryama is a supplement to imra’ata Fir‘awna) daughter of ‘Imran, who preserved [the chastity of] her womb, so We breathed into it of Our Spirit, namely, Gabriel — when he breathed into the opening of her shirt, by God’s creation of this action of his which reached her womb, thus conceiving Jesus — and she confirmed the words of her Lord, His prescriptions, and His, revealed, Scriptures and she was of the obedient, [one] of the obedient folk.

This is how Tanwîr al-Miqbas min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbas, interprets the same verse:

(And Mary, daughter of Imran, whose body was chaste, therefore We breathed therein something of Our Spirit) and so Gabriel breathed inside her garment and she became pregnant with Jesus. (And she put faith in the words of her Lord) she believed in what Gabriel told her that he was the Messenger of Allah entrusted with giving her a holy son (and His Scriptures) and she also believed in His Scriptures: the Torah, the Gospel and all other Scriptures; it is also said this means: she believed in the words of her Lord that Jesus the son of Mary will come into being by Allah saying "Be!" and he became a human being, and she also believed in His Scripture: the Gospel, (and was of the obedient) in times of hardship and comfort; and it is also said that this means: and she was obedient to He Who is far transcendent and majestic'.

And now, let us read how Ibn Kathir interprets it in his Tafsir:

<And Maryam, the daughter of `Imran who guarded her chastity (private part).> meaning, who protected and purified her honor, by being chaste and free of immorality…

<And We breathed into it (private part) through Our Ruh,> meaning, through the angel Jibril. Allah sent the angel Jibril to Maryam, and he came to her in the shape of a man in every respect. Allah commanded him to blow into a gap of her garment and that breath went into her womb through her private part; this is how `Isa was conceived. This is why Allah said here…

<And We breathed into it through Our Ruh, and she testified to the truth of her Lords Kalimat, and His Kutub,> meaning His decree and His legislation.

The statement of Hadfat Jibril (as) when he was doing that is very important:

[shakir 19:16-21] And mention Marium in the Book when she drew aside from her family to an eastern place; So she took a veil (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our spirit, and there appeared to her a well-made man. She said: Surely I fly for refuge from you to the Beneficent Allah, if you are one guarding (against evil). He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy. She said: When shall I have a boy and no mortal has yet touched me, nor have I been unchaste? He said: Even so; your Lord says: It is easy to Me: and that We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from Us, and it is a matter which has been decreed.

Hadrat Jibril (as) is here attributing the act of giving to himself, even though he was only a messenger. Allah (swt) gave him the power to do it, and permitted him to attribute the divine act to himself. Shaykh al-Islam Tahir Qadri al-Hanafi in his book Beseeching for Help, chapter 4 , states:

Though the statement, “I bless you with a pure son,” apparently belongs to Jibrīl (as), but the “son” actually refers to the son Allāh is about to bless her with, and the angel is only a cause, a means for the act which is, in essence, divine. Thus the Qur’ānic verse (19:19) embodies only an act of help which is really an act of intermediation only and is a superb example of derivative help furnished by the Qur’ān itself.

Some people raise objection against the translation of the verse. They opine that the subject of the verb li-ahaba (I should bless) is Allāh Himself and Jibrīl (as) said it reportedly. While in another recitation of the verse the verb is li-yahaba (He (Allāh) should bless).

The deniers accept these two translations because they cater to their temperament and pamper their mood. And they reject the preferred one that is in the holy Qur’ān and recited accordingly. So what hindrance remains there to accept the preponderant recitation and meaning of the verse that has also been narrated by the exegetes of great repute? The same meaning that we narrated is printed in the translation of the holy Qur’ān in Urdu published by Shāh Fahad Qur’ān Karīm Complex, Saudi Arabia.

On a last note, we read:

[al-hilali and khan 27:7-10] (Remember) when Mûsa (Moses) said to his household: "Verily! I have seen a fire, I will bring you from there some information, or I will bring you a burning brand, that you may warm yourselves." But when he came to it, he was called: "Blessed is Whosoever is IN the fire, and whosoever is round about it! And glorified be Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinns and all that exists). "O Mûsa (Moses)! Verily! It is I, Allah, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. "And throw down your stick!" But when he saw it moving as if it were a snake, he turned in flight, and did not look back. (It was said): "O Mûsa (Moses)! Fear not, verily! The Messengers fear not in front of Me.

Obviously, whoever was speaking to Musa (as) was NOT Allah (swt) since He could not have been contained by a small fire! Besides, the Arabic used for "Blessed ...." is burika, which is in the majhul (passive)form (as my little knowledge tells me), and thus confirms that whoever was inside the fire speaking to Musa (as) was being blessed by an external force. Obviously, such a description cannot be for Allah (swt). Certainly, someone was representing Him there and speaking His words on His behalf.

'Abdullah ibn Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his book Al-Sunnah p. 300 records:

ÍÏËäí ÃÈí äÇ íÍíì Èä ÂÏã äÇ ÔÑíß Úä ÚØÇÁ Èä ÇáÓÇÆÈ Úä ÓÚíÏ Èä ÌÈíÑ Úä ÇÈä ÚÈÇÓ ÑÖí Çááå ÚäåãÇ Ãä ÈæÑß ãä Ýí ÇáäÇÑ ÞÇá Çááå æãä ÍæáåÇ ÞÇá ÇáãáÇÆßÉ

Ibn Abbas said: "Blessed is Whosoever is IN the fire" refers to Allah while "and whosoever is round about it!" refers to angels.

In his book, Uluww, al-Dhahabi says about this report:

ÅÓäÇÏå ÕÇáÍ

You can check a Salafi discussion of this verse here http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=705. It seems they too are confused about this, despite their anthropomorphism!

Lastly, we read this verse:

áóÞóÏ ÊøóÇÈó Çááå Úóáóì ÇáäøóÈöíøö æóÇáúãõåóÇÌöÑöíäó æóÇáÃóäÕóÇÑö ÇáøóÐöíäó ÇÊøóÈóÚõæåõ Ýöí ÓóÇÚóÉö ÇáúÚõÓúÑóÉö ãöä ÈóÚúÏö ãóÇ ßóÇÏó íóÒöíÛõ ÞõáõæÈõ ÝóÑöíÞò ãøöäúåõãú Ëõãøó ÊóÇÈó Úóáóíúåöãú Åöäøóåõ Èöåöãú ÑóÄõæÝñ ÑøóÍöíãñ {117}

[shakir 9:117] Certainly Allah has turned (mercifully) to the Prophet and those who fled (their homes) and the helpers who followed him in the hour of straitness after the hearts of a part of them were about to deviate, then He turned to them (mercifully); surely to them He is Compassionate, Merciful.

Here, Allah is said to be Raufun Raheemun, translated above as "Compassionate, Merciful". But, a few verses later, we read this:

áóÞóÏú ÌóÇÁßõãú ÑóÓõæáñ ãøöäú ÃóäÝõÓößõãú ÚóÒöíÒñ Úóáóíúåö ãóÇ ÚóäöÊøõãú ÍóÑöíÕñ Úóáóíúßõã ÈöÇáúãõÄúãöäöíäó ÑóÄõæÝñ ÑøóÍöíãñ {128}

Same terms. This is a translation:

[Yusufali 9:128] Now hath come unto you a Messenger from amongst yourselves: it grieves him that ye should perish: ardently anxious is he over you: to the Believers is he most kind and merciful.

So, it is possible that this book is talking in these tones. Otherwise, it is pure nonsense!

[Orion]

(bismillah)

(salam)

Most Pakistani and Indian SHIAS are not like this. The are simple people and lovers of Ahlul Bait (as). They respect Scholars of Najaf and Qom. In fact one of the Marja Taqlid, Ayatullah Bashir Hussain Najafi is a Pakistani. Similarly Imam Khomeini's forefathers are said to have migrated from Kashmir (a part of India and Pakistan).

Regarding Taqlid, a lot of Pakistani shia masses dont do Taqlid. But this is simply because of lack of awareness. But still when they have an issue they refer to books like Tofatul Awam, which has fatwas of Ayatullahs from Najaf and Qom. Or they go to local scholars who intern follow the Mujtahids of Qom and Najaf. But since the Islamic Revolution things have changed fast and people are more aware of such issues as Taqlid.

Now regarding this group of Ulema hatters. There are many so called "Zakirs" that portray themselves as scholars. These pseudo-scholars have to compete with real scholars that come from Najaf and Qom. They feel threatened that they may loose their following or income source. Thus they retaliate against the Ayatullahs.

These people exploit some fatwas like the one against Zanjeer Matam (blood letting) in Moharam. They say that Ayatullahs are against Azadari (moharram rituals) and so on.

WS

[Haji 2003]

(salam),

I feel guilty of asking people to join it in the first place... :blush:

(wasalam)

Basim Ali Jafri

I must say I was beginning to have doubts about you. It even crossed my mind that you were some sort of 5th columnist, who had tried to build up credibility on this board, only to introduce us to dodgy philosophies.

People may want to see this thread where one of the Bro's behind that site introduces it:

You'll note Bro Macisaac's invitation to them to address questions to him, but they've failed to do this.

Personally I have a problem with people who try and hide who and what they are. They try and come over all pious, but a perusal of the site shows exactly what they are.

[TheHealer]

One more thing i would like to have clarified, is it a standard Akhbari belief that Allah created the ahlul bayt(AS) and then asked them( the ahlul bayt) to create the universe ? Since a few months ago, a certain female member who likes to promote such things and likes to flount her Akhbari views, was claiming so. In a PM during a disscussion she claimed the BE , when Allah says to a thing BE and it is, this BE are the ahlul bayt(AS)......I remember answering her by saying that, then who was the BE when Allah created the ahlul bayt(AS) in the first place ? Never got the answer from her....................

Wasallam

[shian-e- ali]

yes brothers and sis situation in Pakistan is getting worse and worse.these so called malang exist in Pakisatn and i just hate those b******ds who r shaking the foundations of our sect.And they even curse these Ayatullahs.And on 14 of muharram iveherad from a very close sources dat These people stormed in Shah e Khurasan masjid in Karachi and kicked and beat the people over there who were praying there and raised the new issue dat praying in mosques is haram nauzobillah because it is the death place of Maula Ali(a.s).I dont abt India but this thing pretty much exists in Pakistan And Ive seen it many times

[Basim Ali]

I must say I was beginning to have doubts about you. It even crossed my mind that you were some sort of 5th columnist, who had tried to build up credibility on this board, only to introduce us to dodgy philosophies.

(salam),

Really? :cry: :cry: :cry:

You want me to quit SC? :cry:

(wasalam)

Basim Ali Jafri

[Haji 2003]

(salam),

Really? :cry: :cry: :cry:

You want me to quit SC? :cry:

(wasalam)

Basim Ali Jafri

NO! :!!!:

Your previous post cleared it all up.

[iraqi_shia]

I guess this is why only books written by ACTUAL scholars are worth reading.

Anyone can sit there, write their opinion and get it printed, and then claim thats the religion.

How many different sects are there in Christianity for example?

[Basim Ali]

NO! :!!!:

Your previous post cleared it all up.

(salam),

...and don't ever let those thoughts cross your mind again! :lol:

I'm a measly 13-year-old boy, for Pete's sake!!!

(wasalam)

Basim Ali Jafri

Edited September 15, 2009 by Basim Ali

[Proud Shiite]

(salam)

One more thing i would like to have clarified, is it a standard Akhbari belief that Allah created the ahlul bayt(AS) and then asked them( the ahlul bayt) to create the universe ? Since a few months ago, a certain female member who likes to promote such things and likes to flount her Akhbari views, was claiming so. In a PM during a disscussion she claimed the BE , when Allah says to a thing BE and it is, this BE are the ahlul bayt(AS)......I remember answering her by saying that, then who was the BE when Allah created the ahlul bayt(AS) in the first place ? Never got the answer from her....................

Wasallam

Disturbing site indeed,it looks like Azadara e Hussain is there just to defend the writer.

Few brothers asked questions but no answers were given.I didn't know the meaning of "ya Ali"

after salam until brother Jondab-Azdi asked for proof that it's "Wajib"(according to them) in greetings,Adhaan

and Tashahhud,but no answer either with or without proof.I didn't dare to ask about anything

just for the fact I didn't know how they would respond to a woman :!!!: :!!!:

[TheHealer]

,

...and don't ever let those thoughts cross your mind again!

I'm a measly 13-year-old boy, for Pete's sake!!!

Basim Ali Jafri

Boy O Boy, you pack quite a punch for a 13 year old. Have seen some of your posts.........never thought you were this young ( shiites are doin' just fine )..........keep going.........................

wasallam

[saheb]

Shias of kufa betrayed Imam Husein.

[TheHealer]

Shias of kufa betrayed Imam Husein.

Hey, genius, atleast make a statement about something which you are aware of.....................

At that time Shia' Sunni maslaqs were still not totally defined in a religo- social sense. For you to make this statement ( wahhabi and some sunnis who want to exonerate the filthy Yazid(la) also claim so } you first need to understand the complexities of the Kufan society at that time, who were the real shias ( religious affiliation wise) and who were mere oppurtunists. What were the restrictions imposed by Ibn Ziyad on Kufan shias after Muslim bin Aqeel(ra) was martyred, who were the people who were put in jail( among them a certain Mukhtar al Thaqaffi), and then make a claim..........

I do suggest you to read the following and try to learn something and then make any assumption :

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/who_killed_imam_hussain/en/index.php

and then read this :

http://www.karbala-najaf.org/shiaism/shiaism.html this is a book in which the author has painstakingly defined the religious and geopolitical make up of the Kufan society in that era...........

And for Pete's sake , atleast know a thing fully, before you make a GRAND comment..........

PEACE

[AliRabb110]

salam, rather then talking about it here, why dont you go to the room and talk about it there?. Join the forum and bring you proof.

[AliRabb110]

Yes one more thing, check this thread out on IVF

Now you tell me is this shia Islam?

[iraqi_shia]

I went to the mentioned forum. Usual stuff, all thier ideas proven wrong long ago.

I wonder how long this new sect will last?

[Maula Dha Mallang]

people are entitled to their opinions, but if thats a dedicated site to their beliefs, and no one goes there to discuss/ refute their claims, then people wont think to come here to sc and check will they? they will just either accept the beliefs as true or assume that they cant be refuted. might be worth signing up there and registering, if only just to show refutations for people to read.

www.shia-nation.com

shia social networking site

[nastynas]

yes brothers and sis situation in Pakistan is getting worse and worse.these so called malang exist in Pakisatn and i just hate those b******ds who r shaking the foundations of our sect.And they even curse these Ayatullahs.And on 14 of muharram iveherad from a very close sources dat These people stormed in Shah e Khurasan masjid in Karachi and kicked and beat the people over there who were praying there and raised the new issue dat praying in mosques is haram nauzobillah because it is the death place of Maula Ali(a.s).I dont abt India but this thing pretty much exists in Pakistan And Ive seen it many times

What about all them b******ds who make such generalised comments such as the one above? Maybe you should bring proof before alleging people beat others for praying in Masjids!

:yaali:

[nastynas]

people are entitled to their opinions, but if thats a dedicated site to their beliefs, and no one goes there to discuss/ refute their claims, then people wont think to come here to sc and check will they? they will just either accept the beliefs as true or assume that they cant be refuted. might be worth signing up there and registering, if only just to show refutations for people to read.

www.shia-nation.com

shia social networking site

If they did that, then they couldn't sit behind their screens and act like keyboard warriors on another site bro!

[Maula Dha Mallang]

shian-e-shaytaan did you just call me a b*stard?

www.shia-nation.com

shia social networking community

Edited September 17, 2009 by maula dha mallang

[nastynas]

people are entitled to their opinions, but if thats a dedicated site to their beliefs, and no one goes there to discuss/ refute their claims, then people wont think to come here to sc and check will they? they will just either accept the beliefs as true or assume that they cant be refuted. might be worth signing up there and registering, if only just to show refutations for people to read.

www.shia-nation.com

shia social networking site

Just somthing that confused me somewhat bro, you have 'malang' as your username and when people refer to the mominonline site as a malang site you then state 'their beliefs'?

What's the difference between 'them' and you?

[Maula Dha Mallang]

What's the difference between 'them' and you?

lol none, i was talking in general, third person "if people have their beliefs". Inshallah i will always remain a mallang, or at least attempt to, to the best of my ability. no taqleed for me thanks ;)

[SpIzo]

people are entitled to their opinions, but if thats a dedicated site to their beliefs, and no one goes there to discuss/ refute their claims, then people wont think to come here to sc and check will they? they will just either accept the beliefs as true or assume that they cant be refuted. might be worth signing up there and registering, if only just to show refutations for people to read.

I don't think we have the time to waste refuting their beliefs on their forums just as we don't have time to go to kr-hcy and refute foolish propagandist beliefs. Moreover, their beliefs have been refuted many times considering that it is laid on a shaky foundation but as Imam Ridha (a) said, there is no remedy for stubborn ignorance.

Nonetheless, as you must have noticed here, bro macisaac asked the promoter of that forum to ask him questions; but he did not reply.

shian-e-shaytaan did you just call me a b*stard?

That's rude. Do you curse the `ulema? shian-e-ali is referring to those who curse the `ulema and create problems.

lol none, i was talking in general, third person "if people have their beliefs". Inshallah i will always remain a mallang, or at least attempt to, to the best of my ability. no taqleed for me thanks ;)

Wrong determination. One should strive to be a Shi'i; rather than a malang. Ahadith guarantee paradise for a Shi'i, not a malang or usuli or akhbari or whatever other distinctions that exists on this planet.

Whether you do taqlid or not, make sure that whatever you do is with the intention to seek the pleasure of Imam az-Zaman (atf), not yours.

May God guide us all.

Edited September 17, 2009 by SpIzo

[nastynas]

I don't think we have the time to waste refuting their beliefs on their forums just as we don't have time to go to kr-hcy and refute foolish propagandist beliefs. Moreover, their beliefs have been refuted many times considering that it is laid on a shaky foundation but as Imam Ridha (a) said, there is no remedy for stubborn ignorance.

Nonetheless, as you must have noticed here, bro macisaac asked the promoter of that forum to ask him questions; but he did not reply.

That's rude. Do you curse the `ulema? shian-e-ali is referring to those who curse the `ulema and create problems.

Wrong determination. One should strive to be a Shi'i; rather than a malang. Ahadith guarantee paradise for a Shi'i, not a malang or usuli or akhbari or whatever other distinctions that exists on this planet.

Whether you do taqlid or not, make sure that whatever you do is with the intention to seek the pleasure of Imam az-Zaman (atf), not yours.

May God guide us all.

Splzo you said:

Nonetheless, as you must have noticed here, bro macisaac asked the promoter of that forum to ask him questions; but he did not reply.

why is the admin of the site supposed to be asking the questions to macisaac.... did he suddenly become a marja or the representitive to sistani all of a sudden?

the point was the marja e taqleed or the representitive from the offices refused to answer the questions! it is them and their representitives responsible for answering their muqallids.

What you probably expected was a faqih to be described by the Masumeen asws as one who is a Jurist. This is the common understanding of most people….that a Faqih is a person who is an expert in the principles of jurisprudence (Usool E Fiqh). But the Holy Infallibles (asws) have described a Faqih as a person who understands their position.

For example when Imam Husayn (asws) wrote a letter to Habib Ibn Mazahir to invite him for help he addressed it as ‘From Abu Abdillah Al Husayn to a man of understanding (Rajool Un Faqih) Habib Ibn Mazahir’.

Can someone now tell me as to which Usool E Fiqh did Habib Ibn Mazahir study or whether he used to issue any verdicts (Fatawa)? When you study the whole of Imam Husayn (asws)’s letter you will realize the connotation of the epitaph ‘Man of Understanding’ that He (asws) used for Habib Ibn Mazahir (ra). He (asws) says in his letter ’O Habib! You are aware of our station and position, therefore come to our help’.

It is now established that according to Imam Husayn (asws) the ‘Faqih’ is one who understands the position and the station of the Imam (asws). This word has no relationship with the branches (Furoo) of religion. This is the reason why the Holy Imams (asws) never recognized these so called Fuqaha as Faqih.

Wasaail Us Shia Vol 11 H 27; Bihar Ul Anwaar Vol. 82 H 2; Rijal Kashi Vol 3.

Imam Sadiq (asws) said: Understand the status of our Shias according to the good reports

from us for we do not recognise the Faqih from among them to be a Faqih unless he

becomes a Muhaddith (Narrator of traditions)

What! The mujtahadeen spend their entire lives learning Fiqh, then how come the Holy Imams (a.s.) refuses to recognise them as such? Is it because they base their Ijtihad on the Usool E Fiqh taken from the enemies of the Holy Ahl Ul Bayt (asws)? Think again about what I have just said!

Al KAFI - H 206, Ch. 22, h8 (EXTRACT)

It is reported that: A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn uhammad ibn

Khalid from ‘Isma’il ibn Mihran from abu Sa‘id al-Qammat and Salih ibn Sa‘id from Aban ibn

Taghlib who has said the following: “Once a man asked a question from Imam abu Ja’far,

recipient of divine supreme covenant, who replied to it, and then the man said, ‘The Fuqaha

do not say this.’ “The Imam [asws] then said, ‘It is a pity. Have you ever seen a Faqih?

Look at the question here. Have you ever seen a Faqih? So what were those guys who used to walk around with turbans on their head posing as Faqihs? Maybe it is because of this Hadeeth.

AL KAFI - H 167, Ch. 19, h11م

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from al-Washsha’ from

Muthanna al-Hannat from abu Basir who has said the following:“Once I asked (Imam) abu

‘Abd Allah [asws], recipient of divine supreme covenant, saying, ‘We may face an issue about which

there is nothing said in the book of Allah or in the Sunnah, tradition of the Holy Prophet,

recipient of divine supreme covenant, can we use our own opinion in such matters?’ The

Imam [asws] replied, ‘No, you must not do that. If you, in this way, find the truth you will receive

no rewards for it, and if you missed the truth you have forged lies against Allah, the

Majestic, the Glorious.’”

So it does not matter whether he gets it right, as there is no reward for him for that. And if he gets it wrong? Imagine spending you entire life in a Madrassah in a far away land, publishing your own book of emulation for people to follow, answering thousands of questions posed by them, and then find out there is no reward waiting for you on the Day of Judgment for all your right answers. For all your wrong answers you will be classified as a forger of lies and be deserving of Hell. What a waste of life that would be. The forger of lies against Allah (s.w.t.) will end up in Hell as he is the most unjust.

[shakir 6:144] Who, then, is more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah that he should lead astray men without knowledge? Surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. Not only that, they have been regarded as evil people by the Holy Prophet (sawws).

Edited September 18, 2009 by nastynas

[Maula Dha Mallang]

ya ali madat Bro nastynas

in the case of say, smoking, how would a non usooli narrator of hadiths determine its legal standing whether halal haram or makrooh, or would smoking not be analysed, since its not a part of islam, and the scholar would say "refer to a scientist"?