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In the Name of God بسم الله

Fadak and the shia books

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  • Advanced Member

In a debate with a sunni about fadak he brought forward the following claims from our books. I am having the debate on youtube here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyBRfDDJNs

Imam Jafar as-Sadiq said:

Women will have nothing of houses or land. (Tahdhib al-Ahkam, vol. 9 p. 299; Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 104 p. 351)

Of course I said that it contradicts the Quran which states women DO have rights of property, so does anyone else have anything to add?

Also he brought the following:

The Prophets did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance, but they left knowledge. (al-Kafi, vol. 1 p. 42)

Again, more info to refute this would help.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also the following was brought as 'proof' that we exaggerate what happened after the death of RasoulAllah (saaw);

Ali ibn Abi Talib said to Zubair: (Although we got angry momentarily at the time of consultation (i.e. Saqifah), we can now see that Abu Bakr is the most deserving of the Caliphate: He was the companion of the Messenger of Allah in the cave. We know of his life and we know that the messenger of Allah had ordered him to lead the prayers. And then he (Ali) gave his Bayah (to Abu Bakr).

(Sharh Nahjul-Balagha; Ibn Abi Al-Hadeed; Vol 1. P. 132)

He is bringing Sharh Nahjul Balagha which isnt a shia book yet he claims shia scholars appreciate it's contents. Again if anyone has more info to refute this then please do.

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In a debate with a sunni about fadak he brought forward the following claims from our books. I am having the debate on youtube here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyBRfDDJNs

Imam Jafar as-Sadiq said:

Women will have nothing of houses or land. (Tahdhib al-Ahkam, vol. 9 p. 299; Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 104 p. 351)

Of course I said that it contradicts the Quran which states women DO have rights of property, so does anyone else have anything to add?

Also he brought the following:

The Prophets did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance, but they left knowledge. (al-Kafi, vol. 1 p. 42)

Again, more info to refute this would help.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also the following was brought as 'proof' that we exaggerate what happened after the death of RasoulAllah (saaw);

Ali ibn Abi Talib said to Zubair: (Although we got angry momentarily at the time of consultation (i.e. Saqifah), we can now see that Abu Bakr is the most deserving of the Caliphate: He was the companion of the Messenger of Allah in the cave. We know of his life and we know that the messenger of Allah had ordered him to lead the prayers. And then he (Ali) gave his Bayah (to Abu Bakr).

(Sharh Nahjul-Balagha; Ibn Abi Al-Hadeed; Vol 1. P. 132)

He is bringing Sharh Nahjul Balagha which isnt a shia book yet he claims shia scholars appreciate it's contents. Again if anyone has more info to refute this then please do.

This sounds like it means that the prophets are not materially wealthy, but the wealth they leave behind is knowledge. It obvioulsy can't take its literal meaning, as the nawasib like to believe, since Soloman inherited David's Kingdom, including his land and palaces, and other wealth.

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  • 4 years later...

salam, fst ibnal hadeed is not shia he is mutazali sunni, second thing is the hadith of al kafi doesnt mean children will have no share this is for ulama and successors who will heir knowledge of ambiya a.s nor that hadith says all anbiya a.s left is to be gone in charity as claim of abu bakr and umar

 

other hadith about women will not inherit is a deciev by nasbis the actual hadith is in wasail al shia which is complete hadith which says about women which donot mean a daughter which actually mean a ''widow'' she will get her share too but not fix property such as land etc but yes its value

 

but daughters will get fix property and they will get inheritance 

here is the complete reason

 

Maysarah: I he asked Abu Abdullah (as) about what a woman inherits. The Imam replied: ‘They will get the value of the bricks, the building, the wood and the bamboo. As for the land and the fixed property, they will get no inheritance from that’. Maysarah said: ‘What about daughters?’ He (as) replied: The daughters shall inherit.’ Maysarah said: ‘How come they (widow) don’t inherit (land or building) although their share is 1/8 of the inheritance and the (daughters’) share is 1/4 ?’ He replied: ‘Because she is not a blood relative to inherit but she is relative in law. And this (widow not inheriting land) is because that woman might marry again and bring her husband or her sons from other husband (in the land/house) which would cause rivalry with others living in their house.’ 
 Wasail al-Shia, Volume 26 pages 206-207

 

nasbis wont quote you the full hadith coz it will refute them hope this helps.

Edited by BrockLesnar
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salam, fst ibnal hadeed is not shia he is mutazali sunni, second thing

is the hadith of al kafi doesnt mean children will have no share this is

for ulama and successors who will heir knowledge of ambiya a.s nor that

hadith says all anbiya a.s left is to be gone in charity as claim of

abu bakr and umar

other hadith about women will not inherit is a deciev by nasbis the

actual hadith is in wasail al shia which is complete hadith which says

about women which donot mean a daughter which actually mean a ''widow''

she will get her share too but not fix property such as land etc but yes

its value

but daughters will get fix property and they will get inheritance

here is the complete reason

Maysarah: I he asked Abu Abdullah (as) about what a woman inherits.

The Imam replied: ‘They will get the value of the bricks, the building,

the wood and the bamboo. As for the land and the fixed property, they

will get no inheritance from that’. Maysarah

said: ‘What about daughters?’ He (as) replied: The daughters shall

inherit.’ Maysarah said: ‘How come they (widow) don’t

inherit (land or building) although their share is 1/8 of the

inheritance and the (daughters’) share is 1/4 ?’ He replied: ‘Because

she is not a blood relative to inherit but she is relative in law. And

this (widow not inheriting land) is because that woman might marry again

and bring her husband or her sons from other husband (in the

land/house) which would cause rivalry with others living in their

house.’

Wasail

al-Shia, Volume 26 pages 206-207

nasbis wont quote you the full hadith coz it will refute them hope this

helps.

Aww :( .. U should've t0ld that to him b4 five years ..
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  • Advanced Member

Azaan, brother, are you for real? Accusing your brethren of lies? And you like it? Is this funny to you?

That you emraced another islamic denomination means anyone, emracing the denomination which you left, is a liar?

Supposing your decision was true, isn't it possible, when he made his decision, he missed what truth you found in sunnism and he missed what mistakes you saw in shiism?

And the vice versa, supposing his decision was true, isn't it possible that, when you made your decision, you missed what truth he found in shiism and you missed what mistakes, contradictions, etc he saw in sunnism?

Edited by HamzaTR
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mr azan this is not lie or fun or a funny statement,  i was sunni before 5 yrs and this is my fst year+ being a shia i have my 8 year story of my revert to shia islam its me and my Allah SWT knows best then anyother person about my story that how he made me choose this path now i will die on shia Islam INSHAALLAH no one can steel my eeman from it InshAALLAH, my parents are sunni, so my friend if you believe this or no it doesnt effect me nor i get some benefit to make you believe or tell you that i am revert to shia Islam or how i reverted etc....so no problem if you donot want to believe do what ever you want....but truth never changes...and soon you will know it too.

Edited by BrockLesnar
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  • Advanced Member

IBN abul hadid is a Shia book

He used to be the debator defending the Shia sect in the last days of banu Abbas

He used to invite Sunni scholars for polemical discussions ..... He was a renowned pro Shia personality in his time and for his debates against Sunnis he wrote this voluminous book which is about 20 volumes or 40 volumes

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ibnal hadid was a famous sunni not shia here is neutral encyclo which confirms it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izz_al-Din_ibn_Hibatullah_ibn_Abi_l-Hadid

 

Sunni scholars consider him Sunni

Allamah Salahuddin Khalil bin Aybak al-Safadi (d. 764 H) records in his lengthy work ‘Al-Wafi bel Wafyat’ Volume 18 page 46:

عزالدين ابن أبي الحديد عبدالحميد بن هبة الله بن محمد بن محمد ابن أبي الحديد عزالدين أبوحامد المدائني المعتزلي الفقيه الشاعر

 Ez al-Deen ibn Abi al-Hadid Abdulhamid bin Hebtallah bin Muhammad bin Muhammad bin Abi al-Hadeed  Ez al-Deen Abu Hamid al-Madaeni, the Mu’atzali, the jurist (Faqih) and the poet.

 

We read in Tarikh al-Islam Volume 48 page 20 by Dhahabi:

عبدالحميد بن هبة الله بن محمد بن محمد بن أبي الحديد عز الدين أبوحامد المدائني المعتزلي الفقيه الشاعر الأديب

 Abdulhamid bin Hebtallah bin Muhammad bin Muhammad bin Abi al-Hadeed, Ez al-Deen Abu Hamed al-Madaeni, the Mu’atzali, the jurist (Faqih) the poet and the man of letters.

 

We read in Al-Awasim min al-Qawasim by Ibn al-Wazir, Volume 4 page 42:

 

Shia scholars consider him Sunni

We read in al-Jawahir al-Sanya by Hur al-Amili, page 305:

الشيخ العالم عزالدين عبدالحميد بن أبي الحديد المعتزلي أصولاً ، الحنفي فروعاً في كتابه شرح نهج البلاغة

The Sheikh, the scholar, Ez al-Deen Abdulhamid bin Abi al-Hadeed the Mu’atazili in beliefs and Hanafi in Fiqh, narrated in his book Sharah Nahajul Balagha.

We read in Ehqaq al-Haq by Tusturi, page 200:

ابن أبي الحديد المعتزلي الحنفي

Ibn Abi al-Hadid the Mu’atzali and Hanafi.

We read in Izam al-Nawasib by Mefleh bin Rashid, page 183:

بن أبي الحديد المعتزلي أصولاً والحنفي فروعاً من أعيان علماء السنة

Ibn Abi al-Hadid the Mu’atzali in beliefs and Hanafi in jurisprudence, he was a prominent Sunni scholar.

 

His father was a Sunni scholar

We read in Tarikh al-Islam by Dhahabi, Volume 44 page 176:

هبة الله بن أبي المعالي محمد بن محمد بن أبي الحديد القاضي أبو الحسين الفقيه الشافعي قاضي المدائن وخطيبها

Hebtallah bin Abi al-Ma’aly Muhammad bin Muhammad bin Abi al-Hadid Abu al-Hussain, the Shafiyee jurist, he was the judge and preacher of Madaen city.

علامة المعتزلة عبدالحميد بن أبي الحديد

 The Mu’atzali scholar Abdulhamid ibn Abi al-Hadeed.

Edited by BrockLesnar
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Azaan, brother, are you for real? Accusing your brethren of lies? And

you like it? Is this funny to you?

That you emraced another islamic denomination means anyone, emracing the

denomination which you left, is a liar?

Supposing your decision was true, isn't it possible, when he made his

decision, he missed what truth you found in sunnism and he missed what

mistakes you saw in shiism?

And the vice versa, supposing his decision was true, isn't it possible

that, when you made your decision, you missed what truth he found in

shiism and you missed what mistakes, contradictions, etc he saw in

sunnism?

So you easily believed me that iam speaking truth and i was a shia.... :)

mr azan this is not lie or fun or a funny statement, i was sunni before

5 yrs and this is my fst year+ being a shia i have my 8 year story of

my revert to shia islam its me and my Allah SWT knows best then anyother

person about my story that how he made me choose this path now i will

die on shia Islam INSHAALLAH no one can steel my eeman from it

InshAALLAH, my parents are sunni, so my friend if you believe this or no

it doesnt effect me nor i get some benefit to make you believe or tell

you that i am revert to shia Islam or how i reverted etc....so no

problem if you donot want to believe do what ever you want....but truth

never changes...and soon you will know it too.

MABR0OK! MABR0OK !

And no, i d0nt have any pers0nal interest in u (if u think that i have) .

I kn0w u fr0m an0ther site ..

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  • Veteran Member

So you easily believed me that iam speaking truth and i was a shia.... :)

MABR0OK! MABR0OK !

And no, i d0nt have any pers0nal interest in u (if u think that i have) .

I kn0w u fr0m an0ther site ..

Azan! I see you've come here!

Why don't you answer our questions in the other thread about Imamate? about mu'awiyyah cursing Imam Ali as.

You said you didn't have time.

You are not a troll? Are you?

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  • Advanced Member

ibnal hadid was a famous sunni not shia here is neutral encyclo which confirms it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izz_al-Din_ibn_Hibatullah_ibn_Abi_l-Hadid

Sunni scholars consider him Sunni

Allamah Salahuddin Khalil bin Aybak al-Safadi (d. 764 H) records in his lengthy work ‘Al-Wafi bel Wafyat’ Volume 18 page 46:

عزالدين ابن أبي الحديد عبدالحميد بن هبة الله بن محمد بن محمد ابن أبي الحديد عزالدين أبوحامد المدائني المعتزلي الفقيه الشاعر

Ez al-Deen ibn Abi al-Hadid Abdulhamid bin Hebtallah bin Muhammad bin Muhammad bin Abi al-Hadeed Ez al-Deen Abu Hamid al-Madaeni, the Mu’atzali, the jurist (Faqih) and the poet.

We read in Tarikh al-Islam Volume 48 page 20 by Dhahabi:

عبدالحميد بن هبة الله بن محمد بن محمد بن أبي الحديد عز الدين أبوحامد المدائني المعتزلي الفقيه الشاعر الأديب

Abdulhamid bin Hebtallah bin Muhammad bin Muhammad bin Abi al-Hadeed, Ez al-Deen Abu Hamed al-Madaeni, the Mu’atzali, the jurist (Faqih) the poet and the man of letters.

We read in Al-Awasim min al-Qawasim by Ibn al-Wazir, Volume 4 page 42:

Shia scholars consider him Sunni

We read in al-Jawahir al-Sanya by Hur al-Amili, page 305:

الشيخ العالم عزالدين عبدالحميد بن أبي الحديد المعتزلي أصولاً ، الحنفي فروعاً في كتابه شرح نهج البلاغة

The Sheikh, the scholar, Ez al-Deen Abdulhamid bin Abi al-Hadeed the Mu’atazili in beliefs and Hanafi in Fiqh, narrated in his book Sharah Nahajul Balagha.

We read in Ehqaq al-Haq by Tusturi, page 200:

ابن أبي الحديد المعتزلي الحنفي

Ibn Abi al-Hadid the Mu’atzali and Hanafi.

We read in Izam al-Nawasib by Mefleh bin Rashid, page 183:

بن أبي الحديد المعتزلي أصولاً والحنفي فروعاً من أعيان علماء السنة

Ibn Abi al-Hadid the Mu’atzali in beliefs and Hanafi in jurisprudence, he was a prominent Sunni scholar.

His father was a Sunni scholar

We read in Tarikh al-Islam by Dhahabi, Volume 44 page 176:

هبة الله بن أبي المعالي محمد بن محمد بن أبي الحديد القاضي أبو الحسين الفقيه الشافعي قاضي المدائن وخطيبها

Hebtallah bin Abi al-Ma’aly Muhammad bin Muhammad bin Abi al-Hadid Abu al-Hussain, the Shafiyee jurist, he was the judge and preacher of Madaen city.

علامة المعتزلة عبدالحميد بن أبي الحديد

The Mu’atzali scholar Abdulhamid ibn Abi al-Hadeed.

Disagree

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  • Veteran Member

Disagree

 what do you mean?

you mean he was a shia?

ok, I get it, every fair historian and scholar was a shia!

 

what if we throw all other history books to the sea and only take benefit of two sahih books regarding the islamic history?

even in that case, we still had some questions that would lead to shia!

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  • Advanced Member

these are clear prooves in #post 11, if you still disagree not our fault its your problem...no forces its up to u do what ever you want..

Bruv that is not the thing

I have seen many Shia scholars on television and especially in their sermons referring to this book.... I personally know a few Shia leaned people very inclined in giving references from this book.....

They never mentioned that hadid was a Shia scholar

Anyways kool bro

No worries

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  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)

(salam)

Post 17 of Advocate 123

 

Many Shia Scholars refer to book Nahjul Balagah not Sharah Nahjul Balagah, Also there are many Sharahs written by Shia Scholars too.

 

Yes if the gathering is mixed and Sunni Brothers who have read Nahjul Balagah and its Sharah from their perspective they need reference from their own book and thus scholars are often felt as they are inclined in giving reference to Sharah Najhul Balagah of  Ibn Al Hadeed

Another misconception is that our Scholars praise the work, but that doesn't mean that they accept every thing written inside. Praise is there because there are many things which are in conformity to our cause as well as in debates you do need such references and praises

 

Jazak Allah

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