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In the Name of God بسم الله

[Laws] Is Mazi The Same Thing As Precum?

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Salaams all,

I found this website and was hoping someone can help me with my concerns. I've read that mazi, as per Sistani's laws is

"The moisture which is discharged by man during wooing and courtship... It is Pak"~

I find the wording "wooing" and "courtship" not very clear.

My question:

Is Mazi the same thing as Precum i.e. just the arabic term for it? The definition of precum is as follows: The pre-ejaculate, (also known as pre-ejaculatory fluid or Cowper's fluid) clear lubricating fluid that is issued from a man's penis when he is aroused. (Appologies for being a bit explicit)

If they are the same then precum would be pak as well. The definition of precum is a lot more clear in order to help me identify the liquid so to speak as. If you can back up your responses with some reference it would be appreciated. The definition of mazi above suggests that it is limited to occuring during foreplay whereas precum could happen in many other situations such as whilst sleeping.

Thanks for your help.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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(bismillah)

Yes, I'm pretty sure it is.

According to Ayatollah Khamenei:

The wetness that comes out occasionally after the discharge of semen is called ‘wadhi’ That which comes out occasionally after urinating is called ‘wadi’, and that which comes out after foreplay is called ‘madhi’. All of them are pure and do not invalidate neither wuḍū’ nor ghusl. Experiencing them is not considered sin.

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i don't understand why the sites don't just say precum and semen.

I think precum is the right word for madhi fluid. The fatwa talks about other 'wetnesses' like the one that comes after urinating and gives it a different name.

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i don't understand why the sites don't just say precum and semen.

Cum and by extension pre-cum are both slang words. So perhaps best that the religious sites do not use them. Also in terms of the other brother who was confused by the words *wooing/courtship*, these were just polite ways of talking about the activities other bros have written about more explicitly.

I think we'll need to accept that while it is important that mar'je websites talk about practical issues that are relevant, we give them the leeway to use language that is polite, even though it may seem a bit archaic.

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Thanks for clearing that up. Is there a website that discusses/explains similar "delicate" issues. The sunni brothers seem to have plenty of Q&A sites and I think we shias are lacking here (or at least have been overshadowed by them - based on google searches).

I need something based on Sistani's laws (other than the website detailing his laws) or at least a general shia website - obviously substantiated by proper scholars.

Thanks again.

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This fluid is also present after a state of arousal, even if you don't do anything. I know your question specifically addresses wooing and courtship, which I suspect to be a form of arousal or foreplay. Whether or not this arousal happens with your wife or on your own, the fluid that accompanies your erection is considered pure.

I don't know if this is directly relevant to your question, but here is a Q&A with the offices of Sistani:

Question:

Salaam Alaikoom Wa Rahmat Allahi Wa Barakatu,

Throughout the day, I find myself having erections. During (and after) the erection, I get a slight discharge of a clear substance which I suspect to be pre-ejaculatory fluid. I can control myself from engaging in intercourse or masturbation, but I cannot always control the frequency of erections. If I have this slight discharge after an erection, am I considered impure and do I have to perform ghusl?

Is the slight discharge after an erection enough to put me in the state of janabat and does this require mandatory ghusl for prayer? Remember that these discharges (which are often very slight and clear) are not caused by intercourse or masturbation.

Thank you for the reply. May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى reward your efforts.

Answer:

In the name of Allah, the Most High

It is clean and ghusl or wudhu is not necessary.

Wassalam

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On 8/27/2009 at 10:10 PM, asphyxiated said:

This fluid is also present after a state of arousal, even if you don't do anything. I know your question specifically addresses wooing and courtship, which I suspect to be a form of arousal or foreplay. Whether or not this arousal happens with your wife or on your own, the fluid that accompanies your erection is considered pure.

I don't know if this is directly relevant to your question, but here is a Q&A with the offices of Sistani:

Question:

Salaam Alaikoom Wa Rahmat Allahi Wa Barakatu,

Throughout the day, I find myself having erections. During (and after) the erection, I get a slight discharge of a clear substance which I suspect to be pre-ejaculatory fluid. I can control myself from engaging in intercourse or masturbation, but I cannot always control the frequency of erections. If I have this slight discharge after an erection, am I considered impure and do I have to perform ghusl?

Is the slight discharge after an erection enough to put me in the state of janabat and does this require mandatory ghusl for prayer? Remember that these discharges (which are often very slight and clear) are not caused by intercourse or masturbation.

Thank you for the reply. May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى reward your efforts.

Answer:

In the name of Allah, the Most High

It is clean and ghusl or wudhu is not necessary.

Wassalam

this is EXACTLY the same issue which i face i do ghusul 99 times out of 100 due to this clear liquid and 1 out of 100 if its white from actual sperm first tbh i dont masterbate often so its mostly this clear liquid _ however since im on shiachat and not sunnichat i m still in search for an answer lol

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  • 7 months later...
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On 8/27/2009 at 10:10 PM, asphyxiated said:

This fluid is also present after a state of arousal, even if you don't do anything. I know your question specifically addresses wooing and courtship, which I suspect to be a form of arousal or foreplay. Whether or not this arousal happens with your wife or on your own, the fluid that accompanies your erection is considered pure.

I don't know if this is directly relevant to your question, but here is a Q&A with the offices of Sistani:

Question:

Salaam Alaikoom Wa Rahmat Allahi Wa Barakatu,

Throughout the day, I find myself having erections. During (and after) the erection, I get a slight discharge of a clear substance which I suspect to be pre-ejaculatory fluid. I can control myself from engaging in intercourse or masturbation, but I cannot always control the frequency of erections. If I have this slight discharge after an erection, am I considered impure and do I have to perform ghusl?

Is the slight discharge after an erection enough to put me in the state of janabat and does this require mandatory ghusl for prayer? Remember that these discharges (which are often very slight and clear) are not caused by intercourse or masturbation.

Thank you for the reply. May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى reward your efforts.

Answer:

In the name of Allah, the Most High

It is clean and ghusl or wudhu is not necessary.

Wassalam

by pure do u mean dahir and also does it break the wudhu like urine?

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Is this even true?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 178:

Narrated 'Ali:

I used to get emotional urethral discharges frequently and felt shy to ask Allah's Apostle about it. So I requested Al-Miqdad bin Al-Aswad to ask (the Prophet ) about it. Al-Miqdad asked him and he replied, "On has to perform ablution (after it)."

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(salam)

(bismillah)

This has been stated throughout out aHaadeeth.

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ حَمَّادٍ عَنْ حَرِيزٍ عَنْ زُرَارَةَ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ إِنْ سَالَ مِنْ ذَكَرِكَ شَيْ‏ءٌ مِنْ مَذْيٍ أَوْ وَدْيٍ وَ أَنْتَ فِي الصَّلَاةِ فَلَا تَغْسِلْهُ وَ لَا تَقْطَعِ الصَّلَاةَ وَ لَا تَنْقُضْ لَهُ الْوُضُوءَ وَ إِنْ بَلَغَ عَقِيبَكَ فَإِنَّمَا ذَلِكَ بِمَنْزِلَةِ النُّخَامَةِ وَ كُلُّ شَيْ‏ءٍ يَخْرُجُ مِنْكَ بَعْدَ الْوُضُوءِ فَإِنَّهُ مِنَ الْحَبَائِلِ أَوْ مِنَ الْبَوَاسِيرِ وَ لَيْسَ بِشَيْ‏ءٍ فَلَا تَغْسِلْهُ مِنْ ثَوْبِكَ إِلَّا أَنْ تُقْذِرَهُ

  1. Source:
  2. Al-Kulaynee, Al-Kaafee, vol. 3, ch. Al-Madhee and Wadhee, pg. 39, hadeeth # 1

  1. Grading:
  2. Al-Majlisi says this hadeeth is Hasan
    --> Mir'aat Al-'Uqool, vol. 13, pg. 123
  3. Bahboodee says this hadeeth is SaHeeH
    --> SaHeeH Al-Kaafee, vol. 1, pg. 193

^^ Only reason why Al-Majlisi graded this hadeeth Hasan is because 'Alee ibn Ibraaheem's father (Ibraaheem bin Haashim Al-Qummee). He (Ibraaheem bin Haashim) is just "praised" and there is no clear-cut tawtheeq for him so that'll drop the grading to Hasan. Because of this issue, especially since it is 'Alee ibn Ibraaheem's father, this is taken LIKE a SaHeeH hadeeth. ^^

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ عُمَرَ بْنِ أُذَيْنَةَ عَنْ بُرَيْدِ بْنِ مُعَاوِيَةَ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَحَدَهُمَا ع عَنِ الْمَذْيِ فَقَالَ لَا يَنْقُضُ الْوُضُوءَ وَ لَا يُغْسَلُ مِنْهُ ثَوْبٌ وَ لَا جَسَدٌ إِنَّمَا هُوَ بِمَنْزِلَةِ الْمُخَاطِ وَ الْبُزَاقِ

Partial Translation: Yazeed bin Mu'aawiyah asked about Al-Madhee. He (as) said, It does not break WuDoo- and no need for ghusl....

  1. Source:
  2. Al-Kulaynee, Al-Kaafee, vol. 3, ch. Al-Madhee and Wadhee, pg. 39, hadeeth # 3

  1. Grading:
  2. Al-Majlisi says this hadeeth is Hasan
    --> Mir'aat Al-'Uqool, vol. 13, pg. 124
  3. Bahboodee says this hadeeth is SaHeeH
    --> SaHeeH Al-Kaafee, vol. 1, pg. 193

^^ The same issue as the first hadeeth I mentioned. It has Ibraaheem bin Haashim Al-Qummee ^^

وَ بِهَذَا الْإِسْنَادِ عَنِ الْحُسَيْنِ بْنِ سَعِيدٍ عَنْ حَمَّادٍ عَنْ حَرِيزٍ قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي زَيْدٌ الشَّحَّامُ وَ زُرَارَةُ وَ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ مُسْلِمٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع أَنَّهُ قَالَ إِنْ سَالَ مِنْ ذَكَرِكَ شَيْ‏ءٌ مِنْ مَذْيٍ أَوْ وَدْيٍ فَلَا تَغْسِلْهُ وَ لَا تَقْطَعْ لَهُ الصَّلَاةَ وَ لَا تَنْقُضْ لَهُ الْوُضُوءَ إِنَّمَا ذَلِكَ بِمَنْزِلَةِ النُّخَامَةِ وَ كُلُّ شَيْ‏ءٍ خَرَجَ مِنْكَ بَعْدَ الْوُضُوءِ فَإِنَّهُ مِنَ الْحَبَائِلِ

Partial Translation: Question posed to our 6th Imaam (as) about Madhee or Wadee, you do not need to do ghusl, it doesn't interrupt your salaah and it doesn't break your waDoo-

  1. Source:
  2. Al-Toosi, Tahdheeb Al-aHkaam, vol. 1, ch. 1, pg. 21, hadeeth # 52

  1. Grading:
  2. Al-Majlisi says this hadeeth is SaHeeH
    --> Milaadh Al-Akhyaar, vol. 1, pg. 108

So these are the aHaadeeth that the maraaji' get their ruling from.

(salam)

Edited by Nader Zaveri
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(wasalam)

Thank you for the ahadith. However, my question was not regarding the ruling but the claim that Imam Ali used to suffer from madhy a lot, since he is Imam and thus is perfect.

(salam)

you do not think infallible men do not get excited when thinking of their wife, do you? it is not a sin to have some madhy.

(wasalam)

Edited by AlMuttaqi
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(salam)

well whether it is true or not still is nothing wrong with having excessively or normally. There are some hadiths in bukhari that say some bad things about our imam (as) though i do not know if this would be consider as something that would harm his image or not. and it seems form the look of it the ruling the hadith leads to is different from what we do when in the situation of having madhy. so if we have such a similar hadith that is sahih perhaps we would have a ruling for ablution in such circumstances.

(wasalam)

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(salam)

The point I am making here is that Imams have no pyhysical deformity,

Where do you get this conception? You're taking the notion of "perfection" too far.

I don't understand why people get so caught up on trivial matters like this.

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(salam)

The point I am making here is that Imams have no pyhysical deformity, I was hoping to see a sanad of this tradition as it seems fabricated even if the message/ruling is right.

(salam)

infallibility is as infallible in religion, in obedience, and in all that is required by a slave of Allah, it don't necessary mean they do not get ill or have a deformity. (even though madhy is not a deformity nor a sin).

(wasalam)

Edited by AlMuttaqi
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(salam)

Being among Allah's best creation, there is nothing but perfection and there is no perfection higher than theirs. There are ahadith to prove that they cannot be disabled or have "satanic" diseases (see case of Ayesha accusing Propeht (pbuh) of having tumor). I am not saying this is a "satanic" deformity, I am merely saying that in the description of Imamate, such ahadith are likely to be falsified.

(even though madhy is not a deformity nor a sin).

(wasalam)

I beg to differ, excessive anything is a physical deformity.

Edited by cusulli
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(salam)

could you show me some of these hadiths and maybe some brothers like jondab and nader could confirm if sahih ?

(wasalam)

Edited by AlMuttaqi
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  • 5 years later...
Guest silasun

Salaam

 

From Ayat. Sistani's website:

 

1581. There are nine acts which invalidate fast:
Eating and drinking Sexual intercourse Masturbation (Istimna) which means self abuse, resulting in ejaculation Ascribing false things to Almighty Allah, or his Prophet or to the successors of the Holy Prophet Swallowing thick dust Immersing one's complete head in water Remaining in Janabat or Haidh or Nifas till the Adhan for Fajr prayers Enema with liquids Vomiting

 

Release of pre-ejaculate does not result in breaking fast by itself, unless coupled with another fast breaker (like penetration in sexual intercourse).

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Hello, I have been having this problem for weeks now. After i finish urinating a clear liquid comes out, and I feel there is more but it is not exiting. When I exit the bathroom and do other stuff sometimes the liquid comes out, or stays on the tip of my penis. Will this liquid invalidate my wudi and salat? And is it ok to have it on my pants, even though it's barely visible?

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On 9/30/2015 at 6:18 PM, Boshehri said:

Hello, I have been having this problem for weeks now. After i finish urinating a clear liquid comes out, and I feel there is more but it is not exiting. When I exit the bathroom and do other stuff sometimes the liquid comes out, or stays on the tip of my penis. Will this liquid invalidate my wudi and salat? And is it ok to have it on my pants, even though it's barely visible?

Salam, 

From Sayyed Khameini's website:

A Man's Doubted Secretion
As to men, if the discharge — whether during sleep or not — is associated with passion [lust], spurt [sudden swiftness] and bodily weakness [slackening), it is ruled as semen. But if it lacks at least one of these signs or one doubts, it is not ruled as semen unless one is certain that it is semen.

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On 8/16/2009 at 9:15 AM, jboltz said:

"The moisture which is discharged by man during wooing and courtship... It is Pak"~

The moisture which is discharged by man during wooing and courtship, is pak (ritually pure) and so is the liquid which is seen after ejaculation.  It is called Wazi. Similarly, the liquid, which at times comes out after urine, is called Wadi and  it is pak if urine has not reached it.  If a person  performs Istibra after urinating, and then discharges liquid doubting whether it is urine, or one of the above mentioned three liquids, that liquid is pak (pure).

A fluid will be treated as semen if it is thrown out with lust and if the body is slackened. If these signs are not present, the fluid will not be treated as semen. In the case of illness, the fluid may not come out with sudden swiftness and the body may not slacken; but if the emission takes place with lust, it will be treated as semen. This is for men.  As for women, if emission of fluid takes place with extreme sexual excitation (orgasm), it is considered semen although it may not be together with swiftness and slackness of body.

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