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Born_to_cry

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lol ahmad. you want emotional people looking after your children? :lol:

whats a stensh? stench shway?

if women are the emotional ones, youre being very effeminate right now. :lol:

from all that, thats all you understood. See what i mean by negativity, instead of helping the sister you post things that satisfy your ego, that make you feel that you have won the debate or something. It gives you a sense of achievement doen't it? I feel sorry for your sister.

shway???

your generalizing and the way u accuse people is amazing. You know the zionists can use u in their campaigns. Would be good money in these economic conditions.

Im not going to even bother replying.

Edited by Ahmad Jafar

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You have rendered half of humanity useless with a stroke of a pen. With typing on keyboard in this case.

Useless? I saw him list the functions of providing for some of mankind's nutritional needs, habitational hygiene and healthy living, raising the future of our species, growing and learning in our faith which is the ultimate goal in this life, and being an active and contributing member to our Umma through her local community. How the heck is all that useless?

Does useful only equate to working for a paycheck for some corporation, plowing away to make some rich person richer, or is it just that without earning money the person holds no value in life?

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^ a very bad case of misunderstanding of what the man said. nothing fits the definition better for rehtoric than what you just said.

Edited by lion

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That's a little too harsh Haji. She did all the household chores for her in-law family, but that was unfair given that they themselves did nothing according to her. She should only be used as help. The main responsibilities are their's. This is complete abuse. Furthermore, she did all of this, yet received nothing but inhuman rude treatment and no gratitude for her services.

If they would share the burden with her (and it was their burden not her's) and show her some appreciation and treat her as one of the family, not a slave to be worked; things would surely be a lot different.

It's been quite instructive looking at the OP's posts on SC.

Reading her posts it's hard not to come to the conclusion that she has *issues*, regardless of whatever her in-laws have been putting her through.

I want to help poor people, the disabled and the like. I want to become an artist and show them what I feel.

Hmm. So doing work for the in-laws is a nightmare and she now wants to go off and help total strangers???

We didnt have a maid for 3 months and I did all the work and never complained.

No Maid?? My heart bleeds. Obviously grounds for divorce.

I love kids but I want to study further (both worldly and religious)and make my career in Fine Arts first before I have kids. and there's nothing wrong with that I guess...I am going to complete my Bachelors and maybe even Masters in Psychology, and after I am done with that, I plan to get into an art school and make my dream of becoming a certified artist come true.

This is what I meant by *issues*. I think she missed out the bit about wanting to be an airline pilot.

I don't even plan to have kids until I discover the real purpose of my life.

OH MY GOD. I think Bro Marbles should lend her his image of Le Penseur, to stick on her handle. Or should that be Le Poseur??

can a shia girl marry a sunny guy? given the conditions that no one will ever interfere with the other person's religion. i think it should be fine as long as they're happy practising their religions independently without any restrictions. both are Muslims after all. what do you think?

Hmmm. Another one of those women who believe in Amor Vincit Omnia.

If we were created to worship Allah and follow the rules and regulations of the religion we are granted, I don't see the need of having a brain. That is why I don’t like to have a blind faith about anything. I have a brain, so I like to see proofs with reasoning and logic and plain common sense.

Ahh this is sooo rational. It's a pity her career planning isn't.

P R I C K I N G is not a dirty word. Why was it edited out ? I didn't use use the F word.

I see so someone living in Karachi is familiar with the F word, but does not understand what the problems can be between Sunni/Shia marriage, does not know the difference between Usooli and non-Usooli and has various other problems with faith.

People can draw their own mental picture of this person.

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That's a little too harsh Haji. She did all the household chores for her in-law family, but that was unfair given that they themselves did nothing according to her. She should only be used as help. The main responsibilities are their's. This is complete abuse. Furthermore, she did all of this, yet received nothing but inhuman rude treatment and no gratitude for her services.

If they would share the burden with her (and it was their burden not her's) and show her some appreciation and treat her as one of the family, not a slave to be worked; things would surely be a lot different.

The akhlaq of her inlaws has nothing to do with the role of women. It is a bit harsh but non the less true.

Sis i'm telling ya get away from your inlaws house.

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^ a very bad case of misunderstanding of what the man said. nothing fits the definition better for rehtoric than what you just said.

I understand quite well what he said, and my point was to highlight this disease that so many (Muslims included sadly) have been infected with that being a "productive" member of society only equates to having a paying job. For a man, yes I would agree, part of his place in life is to earn pay by some lawful work so that we may provide for himself and his family. But for a woman this is not the case. They're role in life is not that of a man's. However, those things that women for most of the history of our species have been providing have been under constant attack and even denigration for around fifty years now, and the results of this we see all around us. Such as broken up families, miserable discontent women, and men without a larger sense of responsibility. All of those things that were written off as being useless however form amongst the most important parts of any life, and are key to the well being of the larger society. Hardly "useless"...

Edited by macisaac

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I understand quite well what he said, and my point was to highlight this disease that so many (Muslims included sadly) have been infected with that being a "productive" member of society only equates to having a paying job. For a man, yes I would agree, part of his place in life is to earn pay by some lawful work so that we may provide for himself and his family. But for a woman this is not the case. They're role in life is not that of a man's. However, those things that women for most of the history of our species have been providing have been under constant attack and even denigration for around fifty years now, and the results of this we see all around us. Such as broken up families, miserable discontent women, and men without a larger sense of responsibility. All of those things that were written off as being useless however form amongst the most important parts of any life, and are key to the well being of the larger society. Hardly "useless"...

Bro you are a shining star of guidance.

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No Maid?? My heart bleeds. Obviously grounds for divorce.

Hmmm. Another one of those women who believe in Amor Vincit Omnia.

Ahh this is sooo rational. It's a pity her career planning isn't.

did I mention that you're awesome?

Useless? I saw him list the functions of providing for some of mankind's nutritional needs, habitational hygiene and healthy living, raising the future of our species, growing and learning in our faith which is the ultimate goal in this life, and being an active and contributing member to our Umma through her local community. How the heck is all that useless?

Ahsant. May Allah bless you even more, brother.

Edited by Trailblazer

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Im not going to even bother replying.

:lol: youre too much fun! if fun is an achievement, then i guess i am happy about my sense of achivement. :lol:

i should work for the zionists because i called you effeminate by your own definition? :lol: oh man.

ahmad, unlike what appears to be the majority of the posting members of this forum, i do not intend on giving people marriage advice. so no, i dont intend on giving the OP any advice, besides, her question does not address me.

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Useless? I saw him list the functions of providing for some of mankind's nutritional needs, habitational hygiene and healthy living, raising the future of our species, growing and learning in our faith which is the ultimate goal in this life, and being an active and contributing member to our Umma through her local community. How the heck is all that useless?

All of that is well and good, but see what he has subtracted from women to make sure his plans work smoothly. Men are not exempt from these responsibilities. Why tie up these roles exclusively to women?

Thanks to educated and active Muslim women or we would still be raising illiterate generations. Well, actually we still do. Take a look at the East.

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It's been quite instructive looking at the OP's posts on SC.

Reading her posts it's hard not to come to the conclusion that she has *issues*, regardless of whatever her in-laws have been putting her through.

I want to help poor people, the disabled and the like. I want to become an artist and show them what I feel.

Hmm. So doing work for the in-laws is a nightmare and she now wants to go off and help total strangers???

We didnt have a maid for 3 months and I did all the work and never complained.

No Maid?? My heart bleeds. Obviously grounds for divorce.

I love kids but I want to study further (both worldly and religious)and make my career in Fine Arts first before I have kids. and there's nothing wrong with that I guess...I am going to complete my Bachelors and maybe even Masters in Psychology, and after I am done with that, I plan to get into an art school and make my dream of becoming a certified artist come true.

This is what I meant by *issues*. I think she missed out the bit about wanting to be an airline pilot.

I don't even plan to have kids until I discover the real purpose of my life.

OH MY GOD. I think Bro Marbles should lend her his image of Le Penseur, to stick on her handle. Or should that be Le Poseur??

can a shia girl marry a sunny guy? given the conditions that no one will ever interfere with the other person's religion. i think it should be fine as long as they're happy practising their religions independently without any restrictions. both are Muslims after all. what do you think?

Hmmm. Another one of those women who believe in Amor Vincit Omnia.

If we were created to worship Allah and follow the rules and regulations of the religion we are granted, I don't see the need of having a brain. That is why I don’t like to have a blind faith about anything. I have a brain, so I like to see proofs with reasoning and logic and plain common sense.

Ahh this is sooo rational. It's a pity her career planning isn't.

P R I C K I N G is not a dirty word. Why was it edited out ? I didn't use use the F word.

I see so someone living in Karachi is familiar with the F word, but does not understand what the problems can be between Sunni/Shia marriage, does not know the difference between Usooli and non-Usooli and has various other problems with faith.

People can draw their own mental picture of this person.

Hmm.. i don't know what to say... haji2003, you have a picture of maulana with your nick but all you ever talk is S H I T. I think you should watch what you say. That was very rude of you.

It's my mistake that I ever thought I would share my problems with people here ... I'll never log in here again .... really, all I needed was that [Edited Out] from you .... I guess I should keep my problems to myself ... !

Thanks anyway for wasting your time to read all my [Edited Out]py posts and reply to them ..

It's been quite instructive looking at the OP's posts on SC.

Reading her posts it's hard not to come to the conclusion that she has *issues*, regardless of whatever her in-laws have been putting her through.

I want to help poor people, the disabled and the like. I want to become an artist and show them what I feel.

Hmm. So doing work for the in-laws is a nightmare and she now wants to go off and help total strangers???

We didnt have a maid for 3 months and I did all the work and never complained.

No Maid?? My heart bleeds. Obviously grounds for divorce.

I love kids but I want to study further (both worldly and religious)and make my career in Fine Arts first before I have kids. and there's nothing wrong with that I guess...I am going to complete my Bachelors and maybe even Masters in Psychology, and after I am done with that, I plan to get into an art school and make my dream of becoming a certified artist come true.

This is what I meant by *issues*. I think she missed out the bit about wanting to be an airline pilot.

I don't even plan to have kids until I discover the real purpose of my life.

OH MY GOD. I think Bro Marbles should lend her his image of Le Penseur, to stick on her handle. Or should that be Le Poseur??

can a shia girl marry a sunny guy? given the conditions that no one will ever interfere with the other person's religion. i think it should be fine as long as they're happy practising their religions independently without any restrictions. both are Muslims after all. what do you think?

Hmmm. Another one of those women who believe in Amor Vincit Omnia.

If we were created to worship Allah and follow the rules and regulations of the religion we are granted, I don't see the need of having a brain. That is why I don’t like to have a blind faith about anything. I have a brain, so I like to see proofs with reasoning and logic and plain common sense.

Ahh this is sooo rational. It's a pity her career planning isn't.

P R I C K I N G is not a dirty word. Why was it edited out ? I didn't use use the F word.

I see so someone living in Karachi is familiar with the F word, but does not understand what the problems can be between Sunni/Shia marriage, does not know the difference between Usooli and non-Usooli and has various other problems with faith.

People can draw their own mental picture of this person.

Hmm.. i don't know what to say... haji2003, you have a picture of maulana with your nick but all you ever talk is S H I T. I think you should watch what you say. That was very rude of you.

It's my mistake that I ever thought I would share my problems with people here ... I'll never log in here again .... really, all I needed was that [Edited Out] from you .... I guess I should keep my problems to myself ... !

Thanks anyway for wasting your time to read all my [Edited Out]py posts and reply to them ..

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Hmm.. i don't know what to say... haji2003, you have a picture of maulana with your nick but all you ever talk is S H I T. I think you should watch what you say. That was very rude of you.

It's my mistake that I ever thought I would share my problems with people here ... I'll never log in here again .... really, all I needed was that [Edited Out] from you .... I guess I should keep my problems to myself ... !

Thanks anyway for wasting your time to read all my [Edited Out]py posts and reply to them ..

You should be ready for dirt to be thrown at you whenever you visit this forum. This is a difficult place. Some people, unfortunately, don't attack the idea, they attack the person. All you have to do is to ignore personal slurs and derive whatever benefit you can from people who you think make sense. Don't take anything on heart. That's my advice after hanging on here for 8 years now.

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Thanks anyway for wasting your time to read all my [Edited Out]py posts and reply to them ..

As I said for a supposedly repressed Karachiite lady your language does suggest a familiarity with the outside world, which is shall we say, incongruous.

It's my mistake that I ever thought I would share my problems with people here ... I'll never log in here again .... really, all I needed was that [Edited Out] from you .... I guess I should keep my problems to myself ... !

On the contrary, I am sure we will see you back with other handles. You've made it pretty clear what you agenda is with your posts:

1. Islam and its incompatibility with women's rights

2. Why Islamic beliefs should be *rational*

etc.

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As I said for a supposedly repressed Karachiite lady your language does suggest a familiarity with the outside world, which is shall we say, incongruous.

On the contrary, I am sure we will see you back with other handles. You've made it pretty clear what you agenda is with your posts:

1. Islam and its incompatibility with women's rights

2. Why Islamic beliefs should be *rational*

etc.

Oh, thank you so much for analyzing me so deeply ... I love you for that .... I really do ...

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How many of you think the purpose of women on earth is only to be a housewife, take care of the husband’s needs, raise children and look after the house? and why?

Not that i think that is the purpose of woman but naturally most woman full into this role by themself because of the structure of the household and the physical layout of the female body, she holds the baby for 9 months, gives birth and then has to breast feed the baby until they can start eating and by that time the baby is much more attached to the mothers love then the father and therefore requires the mothers netchers most of the time.

unless the couple choose not to have children then the woman can go on with a full time job and an similar life to her husband.

and jafar forget cary she gets very emotional she is after all a female ;)

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Not that i think that is the purpose of woman but naturally most woman full into this role by themself because of the structure of the household and the physical layout of the female body, she holds the baby for 9 months, gives birth and then has to breast feed the baby until they can start eating and by that time the baby is much more attached to the mothers love then the father and therefore requires the mothers netchers most of the time.

unless the couple choose not to have children then the woman can go on with a full time job and an similar life to her husband.

and jafar forget cary she gets very emotional she is after all a female ;)

Thanks for the advice. I have decided to forget about her. And thanks for getting everyone back on track.

May i add you are opening up yourself for slander from the feminists

Edited by Ahmad Jafar

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Since when did a man decide what a woman's purpose of life is? Sure, give your opinion cos thats what the OP had asked for, but you cannot decide what we're here for. Also, what is wrong with having a career before having kids? So when your mum in law kicks you out, or when your husband dies, you don't end up jobless and struggling to make ends meet.

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I understand quite well what he said, and my point was to highlight this disease that so many (Muslims included sadly) have been infected with that being a "productive" member of society only equates to having a paying job. For a man, yes I would agree, part of his place in life is to earn pay by some lawful work so that we may provide for himself and his family. But for a woman this is not the case. They're role in life is not that of a man's. However, those things that women for most of the history of our species have been providing have been under constant attack and even denigration for around fifty years now, and the results of this we see all around us. Such as broken up families, miserable discontent women, and men without a larger sense of responsibility. All of those things that were written off as being useless however form amongst the most important parts of any life, and are key to the well being of the larger society. Hardly "useless"...

Strange that Iran has so many women studying in University to become doctors, engineers etc..., just so they can finish University and get married to then become a housewife that will never work in those area's?. A women should be fully entitled to pursue a career and earn a wage if she wishes too. She will need to understand that she may need to take career breaks to have children and raise children till they are of school going age, and they she can return to work if the hours permit that she will have sufficient time to still be a mother to the children outside of school hours. In this case, a man should also help out with the housework when he returns home from work. Its sounds like some of you on here want a maid more then a wife.

Edited by Irishman

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Is this the general thought among scholars.

I do not know of any scholar who says that the wife should be forced to do household chores or that it is her duty.

You can learn something from splzo Cary. Oh [Edited Out] i said i would forget about it. Sorry Cary couldn't resist the stroke.

Can we please cut out the personal attacks and stick to the topic?

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well ahmad, if you scroll up you will see that i had stated pretty much a summary of what SISTER spizo posted. i'm not here to educate you in fiqh, or ahadith. i would think that a person capable of gaining entry to university should be able to do a very basic search of rulings that are readily available in english, rather than calling people feminists, pessimists, and stroking other peoples egos as well as their own.

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I do not know of any scholar who says that the wife should be forced to do household chores or that it is her duty.

Can we please cut out the personal attacks and stick to the topic?

"forced" was not what i was implying. More her duty.

I agree sorry. No more person attacks from me even if I am provoked.

I will dig up some material on the role/duty of women and get back. We need to clear this once and for all.

May I just ask that when seyyeda Zahra (as) said she would take care of the internal stuff and imam Ali (as) external isnt that an indication of something. I agree with sheik Jihad now that it shoud be on agreement but isn't this also a lesson.

but for now im going to bed.

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Can we please cut out the personal attacks and stick to the topic?

You have asked something most posters on this thread are incapable of doing. Good luck though. . .

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Wow - nice lot of ugly attacks on a 19 year old that has just been though a really emotionally trying 2 years. Is this support from the male community? I thought men were our protectors - to support and guide us when we falter - not to attack us and make us less than what we are capable of being. Isn't that why men are more logical and stoic, to help us through these times so that we can be the best we can be.

I am sure she is not thinking as clearly as she will be a month or so from now.

When we are upset, we dont always think as clearly as we can - yes she seems to be reaching in a number of different directions at once (eg. education direction) but that is OK - it is called brainstorming and grasping for sanity and direction when you are emotionally distraught. You can always narrow the focus - the great thing is she has discovered she has purpose, strength and drive. That is what needs to be encouraged and applauded at this stage.

Her post seemed to personally offend a lot of men and I dont know why. It will never affect them.

Re: "Stroking"

edited.

I am confused - I thought men preferred stroking from females. :unsure:

[Mod's Note: Quoted post edited]

Edited by SpIzo

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How many of you think the purpose of women on earth is only to be a housewife, take care of the husband’s needs, raise children and look after the house? and why?

I totally agree!! You know why? Have you seen the women whom are out and about in society these days? can they possbily get any worse? I mean come on!! sleveless hijabis with packed on make up; Is that what islam tells women to do? I would personally not want that life, i'd rather live at home how i am ment to, taking and providing emotional and social comfort for my family. At least that way i respect my self far more, as does the society and my family. If you look back on history especially Fatimah Al Zahra A.S her life was like that, she did the right thing .. we have to follow in her foot steps as women right? .. you get the drill ..

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