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In the Name of God بسم الله

50 Million Shias Are Ignored In India

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Indian Shias seek representation in Parliament

By: Nizam Hussain

NEW DELHI, India: Shia Muslims in India have demanded protection of their social, religious and political rights by means of representation in Parliament.

President of All India Shia Personal Law Board Maulana Mirza Mohammad Atahar said despite repeated reminders to the government, their demands were unheard.

''There is no representative from our sect in Parliament because of which, there is nobody in the government who could listen to our plight. We are ignored by both the government and the political parties,'' he said.

Shias number around five crore (50 million) in the country.

Moulana Atahar claimed that Shias were deprived of their political rights since Independence. ''The vote politics has harmed us,'' he said.

''We have to suffer a lot, while going for Haj because we are not given any subsidy for the same since 70s. Similar problem is faced to get the visa for Iraq and Iran,'' he noted.

The community also sought reservation in various government sectors like Dalits and other weaker sections in the society.

''This will prevent us from any subjection to coercion by progressive and influential sections of the society,'' he asserted.

''We do not believe in violence and improper means of protest.

We love peace and so wish to raise our voice through peaceful meeting only,'' he claimed.

He also noted various other problems faced by the sect like in educational sector, employment sector, defence and others.

jafariyanews.com

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In India, all shias (twelvers/Ismailis/Bohras) all added together do not number more than 1% of India's population. Thats 11 million

Yes its like for you as if the Shias dont exist any where at all, and since when were these Ismaili Filth ever Shias let alone Muslims? :mad:

Also what proof do you have for what you say, then again Sunnis arent even that great in strength over there as well, So noo use playing the Sunni Supremist card every time.

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In India, all shias (twelvers/Ismailis/Bohras) all added together do not number more than 1% of India's population. Thats 11 million

Nasibi, you haven't replied to 'Brelavi Suffi' post yet... you went there to bark and call others nonsense then you failed to proof anything nonsense.

In this post, 2 groups are replying, one that is supporting Shias of India and the 2nd one is the Indo worshiper and supporter. You should your true face just like other Sunni haters that you are by Israel, Crusaders, Indos and other Mushrik communists against your fellow communities and against Shias. Just like your high ranking Ulama issued fetwah to support Israel and not Shias of Lebanon in war of 2006.

May God eliminate your whole population as it is almost half done.

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In India, all shias (twelvers/Ismailis/Bohras) all added together do not number more than 1% of India's population. Thats 11 million

Well, according to Wikipedia (where I'm assuming he got his figures from) he is correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia#Demographics

Also, having Indian Shia parents I can agree with him that there aren't 50 million Shia in that country. That would put India second to Iran in Shia population and that certainly isn't the case. In India not only do Shia have to deal with Sunni persecution but also Hindu discrimination as well. I'm so glad my parents left that dump for the good ole U.S. of A.

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Singh, however, expressed hope that India could act as a bridge between US and Iran. "We have strong civilisational links with Iran. Also, I would say that Iran is the largest Shia Muslim country in the world. We have the second largest Shia Muslim population in our country...and I do believe (with) that part of our unique history, we can be a bridge," he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1178983.cms

Edited by Thurston
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Well, according to Wikipedia (where I'm assuming he got his figures from) he is correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia#Demographics

Also, having Indian Shia parents I can agree with him that there aren't 50 million Shia in that country. That would put India second to Iran in Shia population and that certainly isn't the case. In India not only do Shia have to deal with Sunni persecution but also Hindu discrimination as well. I'm so glad my parents left that dump for the good ole U.S. of A.

I did not know that wikipedia had the same figure :)

But please do not call India a dump. Its full of Muslims, besides Hindu discrimination. And the vast majority of them are excellent Muslims. Allah protect them.

Edited by (_Sijistani_)
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Singh, however, expressed hope that India could act as a bridge between US and Iran. "We have strong civilisational links with Iran. Also, I would say that Iran is the largest Shia Muslim country in the world. We have the second largest Shia Muslim population in our country...and I do believe (with) that part of our unique history, we can be a bridge," he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1178983.cms

According to the Indian Govt, Muslims are hovering close to 13.6% of Indian's population. If India's population is 1150 million, thats about 156 million Muslims.

If there are 50 million twelver Shias in India, then that would mean, 1/3rd of Indian Muslims are Twelvers. Are you kidding me?

Half the Indian States have no twelver population, while they have tens of millions of Sunnis.

Even in north india, where most of the twelver population lives, Sunnis are MORE than 10 times their number

Some states like Gujarat have a Bohra/Nizari Shia population higher than the twelver population.

Edited by (_Sijistani_)
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According to the Indian Govt, Muslims are hovering close to 13.6% of Indian's population. If India's population is 1150 million, thats about 156 million Muslims.

If there are 50 million twelver Shias in India, then that would mean, 1/3rd of Indian Muslims are Twelvers. Are you kidding me?

Half the Indian States have no twelver population, while they have tens of millions of Sunnis.

Even in north india, where most of the twelver population lives, Sunnis are MORE than 10 times their number

Some states like Gujarat have a Bohra/Nizari Shia population higher than the twelver population.

From where do you get your information and also the thing is have you ever been there & if not then how do you know? Also the thing is why are you hell bent on understating Shia Population Statistics, also the thing there arent really that many Ismailis & like some one rightly said somewhere they are like Scum by the side of the road.

I did not know that wikipedia had the same figure :)

But please do not call India a dump. Its full of Muslims, besides Hindu discrimination. And the vast majority of them are excellent Muslims. Allah protect them.

How do you know that they are excellent Muslims as you have said as some of them can be quite Rude & abnoxious as well as quite literally 3rd class people who are quite hurtfull in behaviour especially to pakistainis against whom they will spare no chance to cause distress to.

ANy ways truth of the Matter is India is a pretty Pathetic situation to be in regardless of all proppoganda.

Well, according to Wikipedia (where I'm assuming he got his figures from) he is correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia#Demographics

Also, having Indian Shia parents I can agree with him that there aren't 50 million Shia in that country. That would put India second to Iran in Shia population and that certainly isn't the case. In India not only do Shia have to deal with Sunni persecution but also Hindu discrimination as well. I'm so glad my parents left that dump for the good ole U.S. of A.

But I thought that Indian Muslims couldnt bear to hear or say anything against their country & were actually quite nationalistic, also I dont think that it is true that Sunnis are Persecuting Shias there. Well the thing is no country is worth being so obsessed about especially today.

But yes the truth of the matter is repeatedly time & again Indian Muslims have been put into quite distresssfull & frustrating situations by various factors be it State Policies, Exploitation, Hindu Extremism etc. It is Hight time that there was genuine acceptance for the Muslims in India with all sincerity.

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Sijistani... numbers dont matter

shias may be the minority everywhere, yet we can put our heads up and tell people we are shias. we have respected leaders like imam khamenei and seyyed nasrallah, who do you have? king abdullah? omar bakri (whose daughter is a stripper), or the qaradhawi guy? shame on you, and other sellouts like you

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I think that is the right figure.

The topic wasn't really about Shia population in India. 11 million which is a big number, 30 million even bigger, or 50 million, it doesn't matter. That is not the point of the report. One thing we should remember that India's population is growing, with Muslims having the higher growth av. Shias did not promise to stay right there and never give any birth.

But, anyhow!

One Monafiq Nasibi comes here and throws a stupid question, then everyone follows him.

This is the main topic, where no one was interested to even talk about it.

Indian Shias seek representation in Parliament

NEW DELHI, India: Shia Muslims in India have demanded protection of their social, religious and political rights by means of representation in Parliament.

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This is the main topic, where no one was interested to even talk about it.

Their system doesnt allow it. I have worked with tons of Indian expatriates and whenever I asked them how Indians finds it more conducive for a Sikh to be PM and not a Muslim, they would just laugh and informed me that Muslims were given Pakistan and Bangladesh. Besides, Muslims make better bollywood actors they informed me. Its strange cos Muslim representation far outstrips Sikh and in addition to that, Indian Muslims seem rather Nationalistic too. Indian Muslims do have a sense of belonging but pro rata representation would seem like pipe dream.

But my personal opinion tells me that begging for hajj subsidies from Hindus is a pathetic request and least relevant to their range of grievances.

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The topic wasn't really about Shia population in India.

I understand that.

I just mentioned that because I am pretty sure there are at least 30 million Shias in India, quite possibly somewhere betwen 30 and 40.

Indian Muslims do have a sense of belonging but pro rata representation would seem like pipe dream.

Compared to Sikhs, Indian Muslims are not assertive or aggressive enough to try and get what they want and that goes both for Shias and Sunnis. Like Muslims everywhere else in the world, they would rather be spoon-fed than use their own muscles. They are not united either and represent a very divided front.

But I agree with brother Someone50, a representation in Parliament would help.

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But I agree with brother Someone50, a representation in Parliament would help.

It would no doubt and i am all for it but it wont happen. I know how these guys think whether they are citizens or NRI's or ex citizens domiciled in other countries. I have my reasons why this will not happen but I was wondering what you feel about the possibility of such a scenario becoming a reality.

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I have my reasons why this will not happen but I was wondering what you feel about the possibility of such a scenario becoming a reality.

Well, I agree that the probability of it happening could be low. But if Indian Muslims take up the issue with strength and unity, it just might happen.

What Muslims in India (and other parts of the world) need to do is to improve their educational opportunities. Like the Jews did in Europe even though they were in an absolute minority, producing the world's greatest scientists and philosophers.

Today at long last, they have the world within their grasp.

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Well, I agree that the probability of it happening could be low. But if Indian Muslims take up the issue with strength and unity, it just might happen.

Inshallah..... although personally speaking, I dont see this happening at all. There are enough transparent examples of marginalization to know what the bottom line really is.

Its been several years since i read Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's (Art of Living) interview in the Economist and after all these years, strangely the one point in that interview that I can still recall rather vividly was his opposition to Hajj Subsidies. This is the same man who preaches inclusivity and engenders the spirit of celebration when embracing the diversity of human spirituality.

This is just one simple example and whlle most other Hindus dont pretend to espouse such pluralistic laa dii daa values, their bottom line is the same. India is for Hindu supremacy where Muslim Lawmakers could rock the boat of their supremasicst (sp) ambitions.

What Muslims in India (and other parts of the world) need to do is to improve their educational opportunities. Like the Jews did in Europe even though they were in an absolute minority, producing the world's greatest scientists and philosophers.

Today at long last, they have the world within their grasp.

I do agree with this view wholeheartedly. Education, Health and Economic opportunity should be within our control excercised by community driven programs. Then you will be very very successful. Communal unity and networking is absolutely key if you want achieve mass scale success. But who knows, maybe the sheer daunting scale of networking 150 million Muslims maybe an impediment.

Edited by mandate
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Really ?

That's really sad.

But as a Shia citizen of India, i never found myself ignored !

In what senses? You can go to school? can go to shopping? You have Indo friends? You can watch movies?

The reasons Shias are ignored are explained in the first report, if you do bother reading them.

It is not mainly about the whole Muslims I believe, since Sunnis have MPs, but it is mainly about Shias where no political group or the gov. ever dedicated any seats for them.

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India's legislative system does not provide for representation according to religious proportion.. It is a democracy based on 1 vote person.. and seats are localized to region rather than religion..

In India 543 parliamentry seats are up for grab representing different localized regions.. Each seat has on an average around 1 million voters (+- 30%).. and that means with average 60% voting.. any winner has to poll around 2 lakh to 3 lakh votes in his constituency..

Now since Shia's are spread out across India and are not locally dominant in any specific region.. they are not a critical mass for parliamentry seats except a few seats..

Sikhs on the contrary dominate the state of Punjab (13 seats) and some parts of Delhi (total 7 seats out of which Punjabi population dominant in 2-3 seats), Haryana and Himachal and thus are in play in around 20 parliamentry seats..

Christians similarly are dominant in some part of southern state of Kerala and Tamilnadu and some areas in North East and have sizable localized population in part of Andhra Pradesh.. and hence they are also good for around 15 parliament seats..

Now if we see Muslims on whole.. its the same scenario for them too.. Muslims dominate Northern Kerala, Kashmir, part of Bihar and Uttar Pradesh, West Bengal, Assam, and individual constituencies like Hyderabad.. and they are in sizable number in some constituencies in tamil Nadu, Karnataka (esp. North Banglore), Maharashtra, Gujrat, Andhra Pradesh etc.. and thus they are in play for around 60-70 parliament seats.. Although it is another matter that due to severe infighting, cross votes among Muslims and vote polarization.. only around 30-40 win the elections..

As far as the Shias are concerned.. there are only 3-4 constituencies where they can dominate and win elections.. eg..

Rampur (U.P)

Kargil (Kahsmir)

Constituencies where Shias are in good number but still way below to form a critical voting mass..

Lucknow (U.P)

Hyderabad (U.P)

Srinagar (Kashmir)

Couple of Constituencies in Bihar

Couple of Constituencies in West Bengal

3-4 Constituencies in U.P. like Bahraich, Amroha etc..

My analysis may not be entirely correct, but it represents a basic understanding of a Indian political system..

Edited by shabib_jaisi
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Honestly dear i see nno point behind being so over obsessed and nationalistic about India as if it has a perfect & ideal system. Also the way some indiam muslims tend to behave is quite disghusting & in fact they can be quite harmfull & hurtfull to others especially to Pakistanis. I see no reason to be sympathetic to them & their leaders among them you find the Vilest of crooks be it Qalbu or the Imam ot the Dehli Jamia Mosque.

Then again Education & science are not every thing but also upbringing as well as charachter and having a right approach also does go a great way in making a positive difference & not just clinging to obsessive tendencies in fact it is more harmfull.

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''There is no representative from our sect in Parliament because of which, there is nobody in the government who could listen to our plight. We are ignored by both the government and the political parties,'' he said.

Already discussed in detail.. I don't think it's easy to change constitution to give seats on basis of religious strength.. ideally seats should be reserved for Shias incase they are dominant in any constituency.. but that would amount to religious reservation and is not so easy in Indian political landscape..

We need to be more creative in our demand given the possibilities in political structure of Indian democracy..

Shias number around five crore (50 million) in the country.

It is a clear overstatement.. A realistic figure is around 30 million (+ - 5 million)

Moulana Atahar claimed that Shias were deprived of their political rights since Independence. ''The vote politics has harmed us,'' he said.

Vote Politics has definitely harmed us.. but it is the vote politics of voting for a Shia or Muslim candidate.. Merit loses and votes get polarized in such a case.. and Right wing parties garner more seats..

Muslims cannot agree on a single party to represent them which would be the best case..

''We have to suffer a lot, while going for Haj because we are not given any subsidy for the same since 70s.

Now thats not true.. Govt subsidies for Hajj are not on basis of Shia and Sunnis.. There is a fixed quota and there is no reservation for Shias in that fixed quota of seats available for government subsidy.. Infact there is a quota for different regions as far as i know.. Any person can apply for govt subsidized Hajj and can be selected irrespective of being a Shia or a Sunni.. i know many Shias who have done govt, sponsored Hajj and i know many who are even doing it this time..

Also main reason Govt gives subsidy is because subsidized pilgrims are restricted to take India's official carrier and similarly other Hospitality services are offered through government agencies.. thus ensuring a big yearly contract for them..

Similar problem is faced to get the visa for Iraq and Iran,'' he noted.

Although govt has not made any special efforts for pilgrims to Iran / Iraq.. but i don't think there is any issue in getting VISA for Iraq and Iran.. I don't understand what problem he is trying to convey here..

Till today i have not heard of any one being denied a pilgrim VISA to Iran / Iraq..

The community also sought reservation in various government sectors like Dalits and other weaker sections in the society. ''This will prevent us from any subjection to coercion by progressive and influential sections of the society,'' he asserted.

Reservations are good.. but how do you implement them.. Shias are hardly 2-3% of India's population... Most states they are below 1%..

Also on subject to coercion.. I don't see what issues he forsee.. Shias hardly make a lucrative or critical mass to elicit coercion by any section of society.. Infact Shias are much more respected for their moderate take on many subjects and rarely under scanner as a community

He also noted various other problems faced by the sect like in educational sector, employment sector, defence and others.

These are genuine issues and need to be raised more often.. Infact govt. implementation on Sachar report should be raised a topic and it should be ensured that weaker sections of Shia community also benefit from that..

But even here major part of solution lies with the community itself.. esp incase of Education.. we need to ensure that most of our kids go to schools and atleast complete vocational trainings after Secondary education.. We need to raise more scholarships within community to support educational initiatives..

Private sector is opening up and it does not distinguishes between a Hindu , Muslim etc.. it wants a capable and knowledgable professional fit for the job..

Another major sector is Health and Public work development which needs govt. attention in Shia areas...

Honestly dear i see nno point behind being so over obsessed and nationalistic about India as if it has a perfect & ideal system.

Just incase you referred to me..

No one said it is a perfect or ideal system of governance.. infact i did not even comment on the merit of the system per se.. but just explained the scope of Shia representation possible..

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Couple of Constituencies in Bihar

Couple of Constituencies in West Bengal

3-4 Constituencies in U.P. like Bahraich, Amroha etc..

Could you please advise the names of the constituencies in Bihar and West Bengal where Shias are in such significant numbers ?

Thanks

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Could you please advise the names of the constituencies in Bihar and West Bengal where Shias are in such significant numbers ?

Thanks

They are not in very significant number.. but you can say good or sizable numbers

West Bengal --

Murshidabad

Kolkata + Hooghley

Bihar --

Patna

Siwan (Gopalpur, Khajwa and many other shia pockets)

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In what senses? You can go to school? can go to shopping? You have Indo friends? You can watch movies?

The reasons Shias are ignored are explained in the first report, if you do bother reading them.

It is not mainly about the whole Muslims I believe, since Sunnis have MPs, but it is mainly about Shias where no political group or the gov. ever dedicated any seats for them.

Oh, ok !

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