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In the Name of God بسم الله

Shams al Tabrizi

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Who was Shams al Tabrizi, was he Shia? Some say he vanished? Others say hes buried in Pakistan? Whats the story behind this character? What signficance did he play in Rumis life?

Rumi was an orthodox scholar who sermoned against Sufis on regular basis until he met Shams Tabrezi. The teachings of Shams changed Rumi's mind. He gave up orthodox scholarship and accepted Sufi tradition. It was then that Rumi began to compose his Persian verses and wrote, among other collections, Divan-e-Shams Tabriz. It is Rumi's poetry attributed to his master and mentor Shams. I don't know the detailed account of the later events but one day Shams left Rumi [probably they were in Konya at that time] and disappeared. His sudden disappearance was heart breaking and totally devastating for Rumi. Rumi became an introvert and composed even more verses. There are traditions which indicate that Shams was seen [and died] in Damascus many years later but this is not definitive. Rumi and Shams never met again.

I have not read anywhere about the madhab of Shams Tabrezi and cannot say if he was a Shia.

There are two personalities with the name of Shams Tabrezi. One is Rumi's master and the other is a Sayyed and a Shia who migrated to India from Iran in perhaps 1400s, a couple of centuries after the other Shams lived. His shrine is in Multan, Pakistan and visited by Shias and Sunnis alike. Luckily the shrine is under Shia administration. Some people confuse the Shams Tabrezi buried in Pakistan with Shams Tabrezi, Rumi's master.

Edited by Marbles
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Who was Shams al Tabrizi, was he Shia? Some say he vanished? Others say hes buried in Pakistan? Whats the story behind this character? What signficance did he play in Rumis life?

Sayyidna Shams al-Tabrezi radiallahu anhu was from an Ismaili Nizari family in Azerbaijan. His father was a da'i, and Sayyidna Shams al-Tabrezi was raised to become a da'i himself. But while in his late teens, he saw something, and learned something, that made him realize that the truth was not what he was following. He became a Shafii Sunni. Studied Shafii fiqh and other sciences of Islam, especially Tasawwuf, the science of the heart, and all of a sudden disappeared into the vast wilderness of western iran, eastern turkey, the caucasus and northenr arabia.

It is then in that wilderness that he met Sayyidna Shaikh al Rom, Jalal al-Din Hazrat Mawlana radiallahu anhu.

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Sayyidna Shams al-Tabrezi radiallahu anhu was from an Ismaili Nizari family in Azerbaijan. His father was a da'i, and Sayyidna Shams al-Tabrezi was raised to become a da'i himself. But while in his late teens, he saw something, and learned something, that made him realize that the truth was not what he was following. He became a Shafii Sunni. Studied Shafii fiqh and other sciences of Islam, especially Tasawwuf, the science of the heart, and all of a sudden disappeared into the vast wilderness of western iran, eastern turkey, the caucasus and northenr arabia.

It is then in that wilderness that he met Sayyidna Shaikh al Rom, Jalal al-Din Hazrat Mawlana radiallahu anhu.

I will appreciate any reference to the madhab of Shams Tabrezi. i.e' his being born Isma'ili and later conversion to Sunni Shaf'i.

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Rumi was an orthodox scholar who sermoned against Sufis on regular basis until he met Shams Tabrezi. The teachings of Shams changed Rumi's mind. He gave up orthodox scholarship and accepted Sufi tradition. It was then that Rumi began to compose his Persian verses and wrote, among other collections, Divan-e-Shams Tabriz. It is Rumi's poetry attributed to his master and mentor Shams. I don't know the detailed account of the later events but one day Shams left Rumi [probably they were in Konya at that time] and disappeared. His sudden disappearance was heart breaking and totally devastating for Rumi. Rumi became an introvert and composed even more verses. There are traditions which indicate that Shams was seen [and died] in Damascus many years later but this is not definitive. Rumi and Shams never met again.

I have not read anywhere about the madhab of Shams Tabrezi and cannot say if he was a Shia.

what is an 'orthodox' scholar?

Sayyidna Jalal al-Din Rumi radiallahu anhu was a Sunni Hanafi faqih, master of Sunni aqida. He never sermoned against the sufis on a regular basis, because his place of birth, his teachers, his parents, and his city was almost entirely sufi!

Sayyidna Rumi did not give up being an orthodox Sunni scholar. He just now payed more emphasis on to the science of Irfan, Tasawwuf, as advised by Sayyidna Shams Tabrezi.

There is a beautiful story as to how the both met.

There are two personalities with the name of Shams Tabrezi. One is Rumi's master and the other is a Sayyed and a Shia who migrated to India from Iran in perhaps 1400s, a couple of centuries after the other Shams lived. His shrine is in Multan, Pakistan and visited by Shias and Sunnis alike. Luckily the shrine is under Shia administration. Some people confuse the Shams Tabrezi buried in Pakistan with Shams Tabrezi, Rumi's master.

The Shah Shams Tabrez in Multan, Pakistan, IS NOT SHAMS TABREZ. His actual name is Shah Shams SABZWARI. He is an Ismaili Nizari Shia Sevener dai'i who migrated to Multan for preaching the Ismaili faith there.

Also, Shah Shams Sabzwari in Multan, did not migrate there in the 1400s. He migrated there in the time of the early Abbasids!

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what is an 'orthodox' scholar?

Sayyidna Jalal al-Din Rumi radiallahu anhu was a Sunni Hanafi faqih, master of Sunni aqida. He never sermoned against the sufis on a regular basis, because his place of birth, his teachers, his parents, and his city was almost entirely sufi!

Sayyidna Rumi did not give up being an orthodox Sunni scholar. He just now payed more emphasis on to the science of Irfan, Tasawwuf, as advised by Sayyidna Shams Tabrezi.

Rumi's distrust of Sufis is widely reported in almost all scholarly books. He changed his mind when he accepted the teachings of Shams Tabrizi. He then turned his weapons against hardcore orthodox scholars or Islamic jurists [fuqaha] who focus on the outer manifestation of religion and do nothing for the inward.

The Shah Shams Tabrez in Multan, Pakistan, IS NOT SHAMS TABREZ. His actual name is Shah Shams SABZWARI. He is an Ismaili Nizari Shia Sevener dai'i who migrated to Multan for preaching the Ismaili faith there.

Also, Shah Shams Sabzwari in Multan, did not migrate there in the 1400s. He migrated there in the time of the early Abbasids!

I am not sure about the date of migration as I said. He is commonly known among the locals as Shah Shams Tabrez and his tombstone reads his full name INCLUDING Tabrez, though the full name also includes Sabzwari. He was definitely not a Shia Ismai'li. He was Shia Twelver and converted masses to Twelver Shi'ism. In fact, he was the first man to introduce Shi'ism in Multan and adjoining areas.

Edited by Marbles
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Do people here know the descent of my master Hazrat Jalal al-Din radiallahu anhu?

On his father's side he is descended from Sayyidna Abu Bakr al-Siddiq radiallahu anhu

On his mother's side he is descended from Sayyidna Maula Ali karamallahu wajhu

Exactly the ancestry of my mother. lol

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Read an authentic biography of him. It is common knowledge among Sunnis. Since you were a Sikh; in your Punjab, in a city called Sirhind, near Patiala I think, there is the maqam of

Sayyidna Mujaddid Alf Thani Shaikh Ahmad Sirhindi Naqshbandi radiallahu anhu. Check out his maqalat. They contain an authentic bio. The letters are originally in Farisi.

If not, then you can google into Sunni websites on Tasawwuf, especially the Naqshbandi ones, and find it out yourself. Nothing comes for free.

Edited by (_Sijistani_)
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Rumi's distrust of Sufis is widely reported in almost all scholarly books.

Which scholarly books, references please.

Rumi was very much an irfani - and not a "sufi" as used in the contemporary sense, especially in the "west" - Rumi was first influenced by his father Baha Walad, who like Allama Tabatabai, Imam Khomeini, and others - did not belong to a "sufi order" as such, but was an accomplished scholar of Islam and who recognized the importance of Irfan. Rumi himself was aware of the irfani levels of meanings of Qur'an and hadith. Rumi's meeting with Shams - opened him up to expressing what he already knew - and what he had been trained towards. For translated works of Baha Walad see Chittick's Sufism A Beginners Guide.

Rumi himself did not belong to any "sufi" order - This is very similar to the way Shi'a Irfani knowledge is transmitted - if one is serious, one finds an accomplished instructor - who is always also a jurist-scholar - the way of Irfan and being an Islamic "exoteric" scholar go hand in hand - and are not separated.

Even now, within existing sufi orders, those that are closest to being authentic in their teachings - will always include both exoteric and the inner meanings in their teachings.

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Read an authentic biography of him. It is common knowledge among Sunnis. Since you were a Sikh; in your Punjab, in a city called Sirhind, near Patiala I think, there is the maqam of

Sayyidna Mujaddid Alf Thani Shaikh Ahmad Sirhindi Naqshbandi radiallahu anhu. Check out his maqalat. They contain an authentic bio. The letters are originally in Farisi.

If not, then you can google into Sunni websites on Tasawwuf, especially the Naqshbandi ones, and find it out yourself. Nothing comes for free.

gimme a link, and dont gimme ambigious answers to his being Sunni. I need actualy reference evidence. Thank you, Salaam

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salaam,

most western scholars regard Rumi as being Sunni

(one exception to this might be Henry Corbin - but I'm not sure about that - but Corbin regarded sunni sufism to have its roots in the Shi'a concept of walaya: "The term walayah has been used frequently, and we know that Shi’ism is a religion of walayah. …The contexts in which it appears and the Persian term used most frequently to translate it (dusti) as well as the Arabic terms that sometimes are paired with it and sometimes are substituted for it (hibb, mahabbat, muwaddat) all enable us to grasp at once its basic meaning: The religion of wlayah is the religion of spiritual love."

(Imams and Imamate by Henry Corbin, Shi’ism Doctrines, Thought, and Spirituality edited by Seyyed Hossein Nasr). )

However, there is also substantial literature that focuses on the more Twelver Shi'a aspects of Maulana - and those are primarily in Farsi, there was one very good scholarly article in English that discussed Rumi as being Shi'a but I'm not able to find it... If i do, I'll post it here.

Having said that, in my view - Maulana may have been outwardly Sunni, but had recognized the validity of Twelver Shi'a - because the Mathnawi, and his other works, resonate with themes that are Shi'a (I understand that a Sunni may quote verses from the Mathnawi that appear to be clearly Sunni - I don't want to get into that here...). I view Maulana much the same as Allama Iqbal, who, while apparently Sunni, if one reads his works, they are filled with Shi'a concepts of Imamat (Urdu speakers may want to check out H.I. Jawad Naqwi's talks on Iqbal : http://islamimarkaz.com/ ).

Also there is a tendency amongst Turkish sufis to respect the first three, but also reserve a special place for the Twelve Imam (as) + Fatima Zehra (as) (and regard them as masoom) - but observe one of the sunni schools as their outward practice. This may have also been true of Maulana Rumi.

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salaam,

most western scholars regard Rumi as being Sunni

(one exception to this might be Henry Corbin - but I'm not sure about that - but Corbin regarded sunni sufism to have its roots in the Shi'a concept of walaya: "The term walayah has been used frequently, and we know that Shi’ism is a religion of walayah. …The contexts in which it appears and the Persian term used most frequently to translate it (dusti) as well as the Arabic terms that sometimes are paired with it and sometimes are substituted for it (hibb, mahabbat, muwaddat) all enable us to grasp at once its basic meaning: The religion of wlayah is the religion of spiritual love."

(Imams and Imamate by Henry Corbin, Shi’ism Doctrines, Thought, and Spirituality edited by Seyyed Hossein Nasr). )

However, there is also substantial literature that focuses on the more Twelver Shi'a aspects of Maulana - and those are primarily in Farsi, there was one very good scholarly article in English that discussed Rumi as being Shi'a but I'm not able to find it... If i do, I'll post it here.

Having said that, in my view - Maulana may have been outwardly Sunni, but had recognized the validity of Twelver Shi'a - because the Mathnawi, and his other works, resonate with themes that are Shi'a (I understand that a Sunni may quote verses from the Mathnawi that appear to be clearly Sunni - I don't want to get into that here...). I view Maulana much the same as Allama Iqbal, who, while apparently Sunni, if one reads his works, they are filled with Shi'a concepts of Imamat (Urdu speakers may want to check out H.I. Jawad Naqwi's talks on Iqbal : http://islamimarkaz.com/ ).

Also there is a tendency amongst Turkish sufis to respect the first three, but also reserve a special place for the Twelve Imam (as) + Fatima Zehra (as) (and regard them as masoom) - but observe one of the sunni schools as their outward practice. This may have also been true of Maulana Rumi.

O My God, now Sayyidna Jalal al-Din Rumi radiallahu anhu, who was extremely anti-shia, is also a twelver shia?

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The tomb of Shah Shams Tabrizi in Khoy near Damascus, is not a confirmed as his grave. It appeared much after his time and was made mainly to dispel the stories about his disappearance and folklore about his supernatural powers. According to my study, the tomb in Multan is of the same person and coincides with a number of historical facts. Shah Shams was being hunted by the then administration of the Abbasides and he needed to get away. The earliest uprising against the Abbaside caliphate had already started in the mid 12th century and these originated in what is now Balkh and northern Afghanistan. This area had broken away from the control of Baghdad and was being hammered by Mongol incursions. The only place safe from Mongol hordes was I

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