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In the Name of God بسم الله

"Do not say the Sunnis are our brothers..."

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Omar Khyamm, if you are inspired by sufis good for you

Sunni Islam is based on Irfan or as in the common word Tasawwuf.

Check out the manuals on Irfan by Imam Nawawi radiallahu anhu and Imam Ibn Abidin radiallahu anhu, among the last of the great Sunni mujtahids.

How are you following Ali's(ra) example in this matter?

Its clear, the Twelvers DO NOT follow the example of Maula Ali karamallahu wajhu. They admit that he respected our mother Sayyida Aisha radiallahu anha, the noble wife of the Prophet sallalaho alaihi wa alihi wa ashabih wa sallam. But they will not respect her themselves because they are above the hukm of our Maula alaihisalam.

Edited by (_Sijistani_)
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it make my laugh those who attack Sufism ,as it was one block ,there are several sufism ,i belong to the Sufism of Bayazid Bistami,Jilani,Hasan Basri and of course Al Ghazali ,other would say Jalal din Rumi and Ibn Arabi ...

One thing is sure is that the shia spirituality has nothing to offer comparable to the writtings of these great masters.

As if ifran khomaini ,a small commentator of Ibn Arabi ,interest the world intellegencia.

Or if i'm wrong ,what are your important books on this subject as shias ?

dont delude yourself by your sectarian kerbalahi blind hatred ,almost all the gems of the islamic spiritualiy belong to the Sunni Islamic World.

Omar, did you see how quick these juveniles are into copy/pasting out of nowhere haphazardly anything that seems minutely as relevant to them? :lol:

I am sure shaikh mutahhari or shaikh tabatabai must have read the works of Sayyidna Bayazid al-Bustami. If someone posts from those truly relevant stuff, then these 'dialogues' can really go towards something worth.

No doubt, spirituality in Islam is among the Sunnis. And this is no surprise, why? Because, all Sunni masters are the students of Maula Ali karamallahu wajhu. All their ways are derived from him indirectly or directly.

Has anyone seen the spectrum of Sunni Masters of Irfan from Maula Ali karamallahu wajhu? Take a look, starting from Morocco. I personally call Morocco nothing but the country of the ahl al-bayt. Then move your eyes across the rest of Africa, Arabia,Asia, ending in Indonesia.

Does anyone know what Indonesia is? It is the Ba Alawi country (200 million). Did everyone read that? Ba Alawi

Alawi for being from Ali, thats Maula Ali

Ya Ali!

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I'm sorry, your explanation does not cut it. You chose the username 'shiasoldier786' because it translates to 'follower soldier'? If I named myself 'SunniWarrior' or 'SalafiWarrior', would you view me as wanting dialogue? I've read your posts in this forum and they sound like you've read them on the back of a Shia cereal box (if there is one).

This is hypocrisy at its best. Shias ridicule, attack, say hateful duas (even in private) against earlier Caliphs(ra) that even Caliph Ali(ra) was willing to work with and then call for unity. How are you following Ali's(ra) example in this matter?

Yes, I boldened our Creator Allah(swt) for a reason. We clearly have different approaches to reaching closeness with Him. There is no sense in any Sunni or Shia playing politically correct and to say otherwise.

There would absolutely be no problem for you to have named yourself "sunniwarrior" or anything else, and than go on to advocate dialogue. This, keeping in mind what you think of shia-sunni relations, which I view in a very positive manner.

I dont curse the caliphs, nor am I aware of any "secret" duas that do so. I, so lowly myself, have no right to judge certain personalities, which I know alot of my sunni brothers have deep respect for. I do though, want to make myself clear, that I support the position of Imam Ali (as) in all of the matters. I know that alot of my shia brothers may disagree, but Imam Ali (as) maintained unity for the sake of the ummah and went to advice the caliphs, so why cant we just do the same?

We all pray 5 times a day to the One and Only Lord, Allah (swt) and ask Him Only for our needs. Period! I see no other approaches.

Intercession through the masumeen has nothing to do with the above, and I can direct to some very good links which prove intercession fromj the quran and the hadith

ma'salaam

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it make my laugh those who attack Sufism ,as it was one block ,there are several sufism ,i belong to the Sufism of Bayazid Bistami,Jilani,Hasan Basri and of course Al Ghazali ,other would say Jalal din Rumi and Ibn Arabi ...

One thing is sure is that the shia spirituality has nothing to offer comparable to the writtings of these great masters.

As if ifran khomaini ,a small commentator of Ibn Arabi ,interest the world intellegencia.

Or if i'm wrong ,what are your important books on this subject as shias ?

dont delude yourself by your sectarian kerbalahi blind hatred ,almost all the gems of the islamic spiritualiy belong to the Sunni Islamic World.

How can anyone debate with a jaahil who talks about 'irfaan, then posts rubbish like this ...

btw ,yazid had been a succesful warrior during the battle of cyprus ,if you restrict him to the sad events of kerballa in which he played an indirect role and especially his attack against the holy sites in his end ,his rule was not only dark,he was a reformer,a man of letter,and was a true muslim.If you want to compare him with today rulers ,like your super star khomaini ,he was far better ruler than him.And i tend to believe that he respected hussain despite the quarrel and despite what we could read here and there,hussain was victim of the so called shi'at ali cowards,the legendary half men....

Bani Ummayya defeated bigger than the small zionists of today,they are the builder of the Islamic nation.

Yaa Allah !!!

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Omar, did you see how quick these juveniles are into copy/pasting out of nowhere haphazardly anything that seems minutely as relevant to them? :lol:

I am sure shaikh mutahhari or shaikh tabatabai must have read the works of Sayyidna Bayazid al-Bustami. If someone posts from those truly relevant stuff, then these 'dialogues' can really go towards something worth.

No doubt, spirituality in Islam is among the Sunnis. And this is no surprise, why? Because, all Sunni masters are the students of Maula Ali karamallahu wajhu. All their ways are derived from him indirectly or directly.

Has anyone seen the spectrum of Sunni Masters of Irfan from Maula Ali karamallahu wajhu? Take a look, starting from Morocco. I personally call Morocco nothing but the country of the ahl al-bayt. Then move your eyes across the rest of Africa, Arabia,Asia, ending in Indonesia.

Does anyone know what Indonesia is? It is the Ba Alawi country (200 million). Did everyone read that? Ba Alawi

Alawi for being from Ali, thats Maula Ali

Ya Ali!

Hold on, let me summarize you...

Sunni is true Islam, blah blah blah. Shi'ah are kuffaar, blah blah blah. Abu Sufyaan was really respected by the Prophet (pbuh), and Mu'awiya and Yazeed were just misunderstood blah blah. You win, we lose.

OK, now that is out of the way, can you leave now :) ?

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Abdul Qaim ,let us be neutral and see how the intellegensia of the best universities in the world and scholars of islam judge the Ummayyads ,almost all of them agree that Bani Ummayya were among the best rulers in history.

Now if your references are only the hateful biased rafidi clerics ,it's your problem.

Edited by Omar Khayyam
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Salaam galbeziba,

Your site is an excellent idea, but I should offer some constructive criticism. Firstly the forum could use a more attractive and simpler front page. And secondly the site does not seem active at the moment, but that could be changed inshallah. I think YouTube would be an excellent place to make a advertisement for the forum. Anyways, I will join, and give it my all to make it successful. I hope that it becomes successful.

bismillah,

salamualeykum wr wb,

dear shaheen,

thank u a lot for registering in there and thank u a lot for showing ur support in there.

thank for for ur critics..surely we are working hard to produce good things through there inshaAllah.

The only problem is.."buzy"

Some of my team mate are busy since they are still studying and cant afford their time a lot in there.And me myself also having limited time for it.

We have not done lots of promotion due to "busy" problem.InshaAllah i will try my best to take ur advice for the forum's performance.

And Its a tough job ya know.There's a time where we have been kicked off from other's forum because they dont want unity lol.

Again ..thank u..i appreciate ur kindness so much. ^_^.We kind of have lots of member before but we have closed the old forum due to problems that occurred within it.

with duas,

me

Edited by galbeziba
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Abdul Qaim ,let us be neutral and see how the intellegensia of the best universities in the world and scholars of islam judge the Ummayyads ,almost all of them agree that Bani Ummayya were among the best rulers in history.

Now if your references are only the hateful biased rafidi clerics ,it's your problem.

actually they do not say anything of the sort. They use the Ummayad era as proof Islam was not a seperate religion yet and that there was no fixed Quran. They point to christian sources who worked for the ummayads as proof that the Quran(S) was different, that even Makkah was not the BAcca of the Quran. They claim Ummayad buildingd prove Muslims had different Qurans and prayed either to Jerusalem or another city. The Ummyad era has gone down as one where there is no real religious learning, especially in Syria and Palestine.

Yes, there is praise for the ummayads for their military discipline. Yet, intellectually, it was a period of drought that is now used by Islam's enemies.

I am a rafidi of your ummayads and you are a muhib of those who murdered the Prophet's (SAAWAWS) family (as).

Oh by the way, please keep your goat away from the Quran. I know you have a problem of goats eating mushafs. ahahahhaaha

Read all of Crone and Crook and see what fruits the Ummayads have brought forth!

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Patricia Crone and Cook, sorry for the typos

Haggarism

read it and many other articles and you will see how much the Ummayads loved Islamic learning!

But it is ok they conquered cities! That is all that matters right?

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I'm sorry, your explanation does not cut it. You chose the username 'shiasoldier786' because it translates to 'follower soldier'? If I named myself 'SunniWarrior' or 'SalafiWarrior', would you view me as wanting dialogue?

warrior=fighter

soldier=defender

these are 2 different concepts, that's why we have 2 different terms to explain them.

This is hypocrisy at its best. Shias ridicule, attack, say hateful duas (even in private) against earlier Caliphs(ra) that even Caliph Ali(ra) was willing to work with and then call for unity. How are you following Ali's(ra) example in this matter?

the same Ali A you are talking about has the sermon "sheqsheqiyya" and dua "sanama quraysh". he helped for Islam, he kept quiet for Islam, he ignoored for Islam, he didnt give allegiance for Islam.... he did not like caliphs. he loved Islam and people's guidance (what he had been asigned to form the primordiality)

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it make my laugh those who attack Sufism ,as it was one block ,there are several sufism ,i belong to the Sufism of Bayazid Bistami,Jilani,Hasan Basri and of course Al Ghazali ,other would say Jalal din Rumi and Ibn Arabi ...

we dont even care for your caliphs let alone these no ones.

One thing is sure is that the shia spirituality has nothing to offer comparable to the writtings of these great masters.

Imam Ali A and A'emme Ma'soumin A are all enough to meet the need for spirituality. wedont need magicians. God's true successors are enough.

As if ifran khomaini ,a small commentator of Ibn Arabi ,interest the world intellegencia.

and do you think, the ones who has claim to have Irfan are the true possessors of it (well yes you do, otherwise you would have never belived in omar and abubakr's caliphate)

Or if i'm wrong ,what are your important books on this subject as shias ?

Sahifa sajaadiyya, Nahjolbalaaghah, Ghororolhekam and dororolkalim will suffice.

dont delude yourself by your sectarian kerbalahi blind hatred ,almost all the gems of the islamic spiritualiy belong to the Sunni Islamic World.

by gems you mean the ones who follow the killers of the Sediqqeye Taherreh S? dude all of them will be present on the beholder of God on the Judgment day and all will have to answer it. I really like to see them how they justify it. killing the holy beloved daughter of a religion and helping growth of its spirituality :!!!:

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warrior=fighter

soldier=defender

these are 2 different concepts, that's why we have 2 different terms to explain them.

So an Israeli, British, American, Chinese soldier is defending when killing Muslims?

the same Ali A you are talking about has the sermon "sheqsheqiyya" and dua "sanama quraysh". he helped for Islam, he kept quiet for Islam, he ignoored for Islam, he didnt give allegiance for Islam.... he did not like caliphs. he loved Islam and people's guidance (what he had been asigned to form the primordiality)

Unfortunately, I don't believe Ali(ra) said certain duas. I have reason to believe some sayings attributed by Ali(ra) were not passed down generation to generation in a neutral manner by Shia sources. If you believe Caliph Ali(ra) did not 'like' the other Caliphs(ra) but kept quiet and ignored for Islam, why can't the Shia people of today do the same thing by following in Ali(ra)'s example?

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Taqqiyah at its best, You cant love those who love and support the " enemies of Ahlu albayt "!! , Al Majlisi made it clear in his book Bihar Al Anwar, that Sunnis are kafirs for rejecting the so called " divine Imamah " !? now would you say kafirs are your brothers ..I think not

Yep taqiyyah is 9/10th of deen

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So an Israeli, British, American, Chinese soldier is defending when killing Muslims?

come down man. why do you tend to mix things? a sildier is a protector and defender, no matter what he defends. he defends what he is told to. a soldier is respected since he is defending.

Unfortunately, I don't believe Ali(ra) said certain duas. I have reason to believe some sayings attributed by Ali(ra) were not passed down generation to generation in a neutral manner by Shia sources. If you believe Caliph Ali(ra) did not 'like' the other Caliphs(ra) but kept quiet and ignored for Islam, why can't the Shia people of today do the same thing by following in Ali(ra)'s example?

Imam Ali A never kept quiet. he didnt even helped the caliphs. he did help Islam and Muslim people but not caliphs. suppose he kept quiet, can you tell me why? he didnt have the folowers he needed at that time. but for 7 (in some narrations 9, in some 5, in some, 3) people he didnt have any other follower. people didnt want him to rule them. now we want. and we are not less than the number of fingers.

and we dont have anything to do with sunnis. we do our missionaries they can do theirs. only dont kill us under the name of kafir (remember the caliphs didnt kill the very early shias such as salman ra why dont you learn this from your caliphs?)

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Taqqiyah at its best, You cant love those who love and support the " enemies of Ahlu albayt "!! , Al Majlisi made it clear in his book Bihar Al Anwar, that Sunnis are kafirs for rejecting the so called " divine Imamah " !? now would you say kafirs are your brothers ..I think not

Sometimes it's really difficult to understand that, are you shia's the ummah of our prophet(SAW)??

The basic difference between a shia and sunni is, sunnis dont even hate their enemies.But shias feel proud to "hate" a the sunnis and always poke them.

Trust me guys, learn to love people at first, world will look much green than ever.

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Sometimes it's really difficult to understand that, are you shia's the ummah of our prophet(SAW)??

The basic difference between a shia and sunni is, sunnis dont even hate their enemies.But shias feel proud to "hate" a the sunnis and always poke them.

Trust me guys, learn to love people at first, world will look much green than ever.

Shi`as have been feeling the "love" of the Sunnis for over a millennium now, and it isn't all that pretty. Here's an example from today:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/artic...1FdgEVKvMDvCIBg

As to hating the enemies of Allah (and if the person is not an enemy of Allah, why would you be an enemy unto them?), read what Allah tells us in the Quran, such as in Sura al-Mumtahina.

Edited by macisaac
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I have to add one other point. Since joining this forum, I have noticed there is a general dark atmosphere of sadness and anger from members. When I visit Sunni forums, I see more peace and light-heartedness. I'm talking about generally, without me being included in any conversations. I'm trying to understand if the two madhabs offer different attitudes based on emotions.

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I have to add one other point. Since joining this forum, I have noticed there is a general dark atmosphere of sadness and anger from members. When I visit Sunni forums, I see more peace and light-heartedness. I'm talking about generally, without me being included in any conversations. I'm trying to understand if the two madhabs offer different attitudes based on emotions.

(bismillah)

That's cause you're in the Shia/Sunni "dialogue" section. Mention anything Shi'a on Sunni Forums and the super hate and taqfeer begins.

(salam)

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That's cause you're in the Shia/Sunni "dialogue" section. Mention anything Shi'a on Sunni Forums and the super hate and taqfeer begins.

I'm not referring to conversations between Shias and Sunnis or exclusive to this forum. I'm talking about Shias talking with other Shias on this website. There is a dark atmosphere of sadness and anger amongst them as they discuss their beliefs. I'm not saying it exists all the time, but it is definitely more prevalent than on Sunni websites when they are discussing their own beliefs.

What I'm trying to see is if these emotions have a psychological impact on their lives.

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I'm not referring to conversations between Shias and Sunnis or exclusive to this forum. I'm talking about Shias talking with other Shias on this website. There is a dark atmosphere of sadness and anger amongst them as they discuss their beliefs. I'm not saying it exists all the time, but it is definitely more prevalent than on Sunni websites when they are discussing their own beliefs.

What I'm trying to see is if these emotions have a psychological impact on their lives.

(bismillah)

If you get different beliefs together, there will be arguments. Put a Salafi and Sufi in a room and watch it explode.

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I'm not referring to conversations between Shias and Sunnis or exclusive to this forum. I'm talking about Shias talking with other Shias on this website. There is a dark atmosphere of sadness and anger amongst them as they discuss their beliefs. I'm not saying it exists all the time, but it is definitely more prevalent than on Sunni websites when they are discussing their own beliefs.

What I'm trying to see is if these emotions have a psychological impact on their lives.

:lol:

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I have to add one other point. Since joining this forum, I have noticed there is a general dark atmosphere of sadness and anger from members. When I visit Sunni forums, I see more peace and light-heartedness. I'm talking about generally, without me being included in any conversations. I'm trying to understand if the two madhabs offer different attitudes based on emotions.

The madhabs and attitudes of the followers depends upon the circumstances and how they eveolved, as opposed what God prescribes. Haven't you heard that "shias live in "gham-e-Hussain" (Hussain's grief)".

For sunnis history is generally a source of contentment, the episode of Karbala just another sad event that passed and nothing can be done about it. For shias, history of full of injustices, struggle and discontent, hence their attitude. The concept of Tabarra and its practice is a testimony of this.

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Sunnis tend to have a very romantic and jubuliant interpretation of Islamic history, where the Prophet (s) came in, all the Sahabas were wonderful and never disagreed on anything, threw cotton candy in the streets, and formed the greatest empire in history. Tragedies like the Battle of Kerbala are simply too depressing to fit into this narrative, so it has to cut out and forgotten about. Zakir Naik's comments were just a reflection of the ignorance the concept of tragedy has in the Sunni world's understanding of history.

Shias have been oppressed for centuries, their leaders and members harrassed, imprisoned, tortured, and killed. Tragedies after tragedies. But life is best reflected in the worst of times and not the best, which is why Shiism to me personally gives the greater reflection of humanity. When people are down and not up.

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Shias have been oppressed for centuries, their leaders and members harrassed, imprisoned, tortured, and killed. Tragedies after tragedies. But life is best reflected in the worst of times and not the best, which is why Shiism to me personally gives the greater reflection of humanity. When people are down and not up.

(bismillah)

This is the religion of martyrdom, jihad, and `ibadah fi-sabiliallah! :yaali:

(salam)

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The madhabs and attitudes of the followers depends upon the circumstances and how they eveolved, as opposed what God prescribes. Haven't you heard that "shias live in "gham-e-Hussain" (Hussain's grief)".

For sunnis history is generally a source of contentment, the episode of Karbala just another sad event that passed and nothing can be done about it. For shias, history of full of injustices, struggle and discontent, hence their attitude. The concept of Tabarra and its practice is a testimony of this.

(bismillah)

(salam)

no wonder it gets difficult to seperate the truth from falsehood(haq from batil)

(wasalam)

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^Sunnis in general haven't paid much attention to history. History was never a source of theology and religious doctrine, as opposed to shi'ites for obvious reasons.

(bismillah)

History isn't where we "get our beliefs" and such. We get the true Islam from Quran and Ahlulbayt (as).

The Ahlulbayt (as) are part of Islam and whatever happens to them by order of Rasulullah (pbuh).

(salam)

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^Sunnis in general haven't paid much attention to history. History was never a source of theology and religious doctrine, as opposed to shi'ites for obvious reasons.

(bismillah)

(salam)

does this mean that my bro has not paid much attention to the greater part of the quran, the history of the earliers.

Allah(swt) does not do things for a jest, if there is history in the quran then it must be very very important.

(wasalam)

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