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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Given how many Nizari Ismailis are marrying non-Ismailis and non-Muslims, and given how few kids Nizari Ismailis are having, as well as the fact that Nizari Ismailis don't give daw'ah at all and aren't allowed by their Imam to preach Nizari Ismailism actively to outsiders, I believe the numbers of Nizari Ismailis in the world is decreasing over time.

I've come across a number of ex-Ismailis, but, haven't yet come across a Sunni or Twelver who has become a Nizari Ismaili. Most of the ex-Ismailis I've come across have become Sunni, a certain number have become Twelver, and then a few are Agnostic. I've even come across ex-Ismailis who are now Christians.

Anyway, I still think we must warn against Nizari Ismailism and expose this fraudulent religion. The followers of this trash need to be awoken and educated about the Qur'an and the true teachings of Islam. What they're practicing now is more like Catholicism or Hinduism than having anything to do with Islam.

Nasir Khusraw converted to a form of Ismailism that is a way more like modern-day Bohra Ismailism than anything having to do with modern-day Nizari Ismailism. The Fatimid Empire and the Ismailis of nearly a thousand years ago have nothing to do with the Dajjal-led cult that Nizari Ismailism is today and has been over the past 100-150 years. The Ismailis of old cared about both zahir and batin as well as the five pillars of Islam - and they didn't call their Imam the mazhar of Allah nor invoke him / worship him alongside Allah like modern-day Nizari Ismailis do.

It's a matter of time before the Aga Khan or a future Nizari Ismaili Imam either fails to appear or becomes publicly revealed as an impostor. The tide will insha'Allah go out soon and Nizari Ismailism will be left naked. May Allah make it happen quickly, aameen.

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As exemplified by this hadith found in the primary Fatimid era Isma`ili collection of hadiths, Da`a'im al-Islam. I'll quote it here in full with the hopes that Isma`ili posters in this thread actuall

Do you want me to go on? I think i should, so that once and for all this 11 page debate with an easy solution can finally come to an end. In the Ismaili madhab where is the required wudhu? wudhu is a

I used to be an Ismaili, and I left about 7 years ago, because the entire madhhab was a direct insult to not only my intellect, but to the Sunnah of Rasulallah (pbuh) and Allah's religion. Ismailis ha

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I also want to add that the media often reports the total population of Nizari Ismailis in the world as being about 15 million. However, if one adds up generous estimates of the number of Nizari Ismailis for the countries in which they are predominantly located globally (mainly: the Indo-Pak subcontinent, Africa, as well as all of the major Western countries), it's difficult to even get close to a few million. I would suggest that the actual number of Nizari Ismailis in the world is significantly less than half of the 15 million that is commonly reported.

For those wondering, the 15 million figure is an exceptionally generous and wickedly biased estimate that came out of the Aga Khan's "Secretariat" a long time ago, and has been floating around in the media for almost a century now. There is no way to know for sure how many Nizari Ismailis are out there in the world, however, so, no one has really questioned the figure too much. But, those of us who have done some research into Nizari Ismailism and know where Nizari Ismailis are predominantly located will realize what I mention above (i.e. that the actual number of Nizari Ismailis in the world is significantly less than even half of the 15 million that is commonly reported).

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Ex-Ismaili Comments on the Nizari Ismaili "Holy Du'a" vs Islamic Namaz

Note: Even though this video suggests that Nizari Ismailis do a full sujood in their Holy Du'a, trust me: they DO NOT - and the reason is because they sit cross-legged or zig-zag legged (as per the picture below) when saying their Holy Du'a in their "jamatkhanas," making a full sujood impossible for almost of all of them except those with very flexible bodies.

For those wondering, here is how the inside of a typical Nizari Ismaili jamatkhana looks during most communal acts of worship, including when the "Holy Du'a" is being recited:

tumalaaa.png

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It was difficult getting this picture!

Edited by Ruwayd
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I'd like to add, do you think that by doing dandia and rass. Which is dancing and playing music, you can youtube it. Do you think that gets you close to Allah? Wallah if that gets you close to Allah then what the rest of the Muslims do gets us lightyears closer to Allah. Honestly...you'd think these married people would have morality..but they're grinding on others' wives as if it's the night club

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I'd like to add, do you think that by doing dandia and rass. Which is dancing and playing music, you can youtube it. Do you think that gets you close to Allah? Wallah if that gets you close to Allah then what the rest of the Muslims do gets us lightyears closer to Allah. Honestly...you'd think these married people would have morality..but they're grinding on others' wives as if it's the night club

Yes, scenes like this at Nizari Ismaili music parties - held inside of jamatkhanas (in a social hall area and not in the main area where worship services are conducted) - are not at all uncommon:

tumalawowza.png

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Everyone in the above pic = Nizari Ismaili

And, yes, that is typically how men and women dress inside the Nizari Ismaili jamatkhanas each evening. In fact, many Nizari Ismaili women can be quite slutty in their attire and wear far less than what you see the above women wearing. I would post pics of what I mean, but, I know the mods wouldn't allow such indecent images of women being posted here.

Edited by Ruwayd
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Where in hadis of Prophet [PBUH] says to beat yourself up?

http://davidderrick....8/01/shiite.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.u...ast/1890541.stm

http://ivarfjeld.wor...-and-holy-week/

Anyways, I am not here to defend my religion, faith or belief or ismaili or my Imam, because no matter what you say or no matter how many bad words you say, the truth doesn't change, that's the good news. And my religion and my Imam doesn't need defending. This will be my last post here. But, I'd like to conclude by repeating it again, that : An imam in a cave is no imam, but a coward.

No one gives 2 rats ass. Adios!!!

Wow, where do I begin... Okay,

1) Not one Shia on the planet believes our Prophet (pbuh) self flagellated himself. I don't know why so many try and use this line of argument. It's a clear bid'a, an evil one at that. No one doubts it's a Bid'a.

2) Why do you think the Mahdi (as) is in a cave? I've never seen a Hadith stating this, honestly where do you people get this garbage from?

3) You are going to regret what you just said about the Imam of the Time (as). You follow an imposter, yet you have the audacity to call our Imam a coward... Mindboggling, utterly mindboggling.

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Are the followers of Aga Khan (Ismailis) forced to follow his (Aga Khan) leadership? Do they do all these willingly or are they coerced somehow to follow him? Do they follow him just to remain in the community?

All Nizari Ismailis get their children a formal bay'ah at the hands of a Nizari Ismaili priest ("mukhi" = male priest; "kamadia" = female priest) upon birth (even though the children don't have the mental capacity to understand what they're doing). The child is then expected to abide by the Nizari Ismaili constitution (here is a copy of it - although it has been sanitized for non-Ismaili consumption) thereafter, from cradle to grave. The bay'ah ceremony performed is much like the baptism ceremony that Christians perform.

The Aga Khan and his leadership councils have the power to excommunicate anyone they wish from the Nizari Ismaili community and Nizari Ismaili properties (especially as all properties are technically the legal property of the Aga Khan himself). They rarely exercise this power, but, have done so before. Anyone who has publicly challenged Aga Khan's stipulations when it comes to matters of faith, or publicly challenged his leadership, has traditionally been excommunicated.

Here is what the Aga Khan said in an interview:

The Imam’s word on the Faith is taken as an absolute rule. Every Ismaili is expected to accept it. The Community always follows very closely the personal way of thinking of the Imam. It’s one of the particularities of Ismailis. An Ismaili who did not obey My word in matters of Faith, would not be excommunicated, he would still be a Muslim. He simply would no longer be a member of the Jamath – The Community of Ismaili Muslims. One has to make a very careful distinction here between worldly and religious matters. An Ismaili may ask my advice on a worldly problem, then not accept it. But, if he were to ignore the Imam’s decision on matters of Faith, the Community pressures on him would be very strong.

It is pretty difficult for anyone who has grown up Nizari Ismaili to willingly leave it, especially if that person is a Khoja. Most Nizari Ismailis (especially Khoja Nizari Ismailis) are very tight-knit with the rest of the Nizari Ismaili community and are steeped in Khoja and//or Nizari Ismaili traditions, even if they don't really believe in Nizari Ismailism. It's like trying to leave a closed society that you've grown up in and has known you intimately since you were born...very, very difficult - but, certainly far from impossible, as the increasing number of ex-Ismailis makes clear.

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Thank Allah I left that garbage. Even though I became a Sunni afterwards, I finally learned all the proofs of why even that was wrong, and Alhumdulillah Allah guided me to be a true Muslim following the true Sunnah as preserved by the Ahlul Bayt (as)

Allahu Akbar!

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'The Institute of Ismaili Studies' is nizari and affiliated with the agha khan, but to be fair to them, they do have some kind of islamic studies going on

http://www.iis.ac.uk/home.asp?l=en

They have published a book I am considering buying: http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Early-Shii-Thought-Arzina-Lalani/9781850435921

I was hesitant to purchase this book as it is coming from Ismaili sources, but should it be okay, or would you or anyone else suggest I not buy it?

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They have published a book I am considering buying: http://www.bookdepos...i/9781850435921

I was hesitant to purchase this book as it is coming from Ismaili sources, but should it be okay, or would you or anyone else suggest I not buy it?

If you are really interested to know about them, then I suggest you go ahead, but the contents could have been tweaked to make it more accommodating for non Ismaili readers. But in all honestly and my personal opinion, I wouldn't spend my hard earned money on something that it is so blatantly disgusting.

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If you are really interested to know about them, then I suggest you go ahead, but the contents could have been tweaked to make it more accommodating for non Ismaili readers. But in all honestly and my personal opinion, I wouldn't spend my hard earned money on something that it is so blatantly disgusting.

No, it's not about Islamilism, it's about Imam al-Baqir (as). It's just published by the Ismaili Institution

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No, it's not about Islamilism, it's about Imam al-Baqir (as). It's just published by the Ismaili Institution

I have the book. It's not written from an Isma'ili perspective. Actually t's written in an academic fashion. It's a scholarly work, and definitely not devotional in character. Quite a decent book, actually, as long as you understand its intended audience ie Western academics.

Edited by Abdul Qaim
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Jazaka'Allah to the ex-Ismaili brothers for shedding more light on this twisted sect and it's corrupt leadership.

I have differences with fellow Shi'ah and sunnis but at least on majority of hukm we're ALL agreed and the basis of our deen is the same; reading the mind-boggling recollections and seeing the pictures makes it clear this cult is non-Shi'ah, non-Islamic and seriously deviated.

As for toledo, he's a coward and a liar; when he can't answer or deny the facts (which is often) he resorts to abusing an Imam, using the exact same words Nasibis use - not even able to think for himself, such is his level of ignorance.

ALI

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Absolutely incorrect. Shias are known today to be primarily the Zaidi's (who break off from mainstream Shias after Imam Zaynul Abideen (as) and go to his son Zaid) and the Ithna'Ashri's (mainstream Shias who believe in 12 imams as told in the Quran and the hadith of the Sunnis and Shias). I agree that Sunnis have four main schools (you have to remember they also have schools such as Salafi and Wahhabi not just Hanafi, Shaf'ii, Maliki, and Hanbali), however among the five major schools (Ja'fari, Hanafi, Shaf'ii, Maliki, Hanbali) the basics are intact and 90% of the content is the same. Shahada, Salat, Zakat, Sawm, and Hajj, they're all there in all five. When it comes to the Ismaili school, as I said in my long explanations: They do shirk, hence making their Shahada null and void, they do not pray Salat, they do not pay Zakat, they do not participate with the rest of the Muslims in fasting in Ramadan, and they do not perform Hajj. Among many other things which disqualify their claim to be Muslims.

Majority of people, who quoted me, are not being honest and or are unaware of history (please do some research). If you are a twelver and think that seveners (Ismailies) are not shia, because they don’t believe in 12 imams then that is a theology not history (Just like Catholic and Protestant Christianity).

HISTORICAL FACT: Ismailies are Shia. The first shia empire (Fatimid Empire) was a Ismaili Shia Muslim empire.

As for salafies/wahabies: it is a movement not a school of thought. Sunnies have only four schools Hanifi, Maliki, Shafi’I, and Hambali. (If you are a Hanafi/shafi’i/hambali/maliki and disagree with other schools of thought that’s your problem not mine).

Ethic lesson: Please don’t say “you have lied” “you are lying” “you are misleading” etc.

Instead use words such as, I disagree, you are wrong, you need to do more research, I differ…etc.

As a reminder to myself and everyone else: May Allah give us an Islamic Adab.

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Majority of people, who quoted me, are not being honest and or are unaware of history (please do some research). If you are a twelver and think that seveners (Ismailies) are not shia, because they don’t believe in 12 imams then that is a theology not history (Just like Catholic and Protestant Christianity).

HISTORICAL FACT: Ismailies are Shia. The first shia empire (Fatimid Empire) was a Ismaili Shia Muslim empire.

As for salafies/wahabies: it is a movement not a school of thought. Sunnies have only four schools Hanifi, Maliki, Shafi’I, and Hambali. (If you are a Hanafi/shafi’i/hambali/maliki and disagree with other schools of thought that’s your problem not mine).

Ethic lesson: Please don’t say “you have lied” “you are lying” “you are misleading” etc.

Instead use words such as, I disagree, you are wrong, you need to do more research, I differ…etc.

As a reminder to myself and everyone else: May Allah give us an Islamic Adab.

That was a well mannered response to a rude post.

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..., they do not pray Salat, they do not pay Zakat, they do not participate with the rest of the Muslims in fasting in Ramadan, and they do not perform Hajj.

It directly depends on how do you interpret (salat, zakat, fast and hajj).

"Musulmani agar kahbah parasteest, parastaraani bout ra tahna az cheest!"

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It directly depends on how do you interpret (salat, zakat, fast and hajj).

"Musulmani agar kahbah parasteest, parastaraani bout ra tahna az cheest!"

Actually, no it's not. Nizaris don't practice the zahiri rituals of other Muslims. Understanding the batin behind the zahir is vital, otherwise the a'maal you perform are meaningless, but Nizaris have foregone the zahir altogether, which is something the Fatimi imams and their da'is specifically forbade. Practicing the batin without the zahir is as futile as the zahir without the batin. It's like an egg without a yolk, or conversely, a yolk without an egg.

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An interesting fact about the Nizari Ismailis is up until their 48th imam (Karim Agha Khan's grandfather), they were more or less the same as Twelver Shias in practice and beliefs. It's a historical fact that the first two Agha Khans, imams 46 & 47 were Shias who believed in the Imamate of Imam Musa Kadhim (as). Sultan Muhammad Shah (#48) is the one who [Edited Out]ized the religion into what it is today. Check out this site for some interesting history on the Agha Khans: http://mostmerciful.com/?p=343

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Majority of people, who quoted me, are not being honest and or are unaware of history (please do some research). If you are a twelver and think that seveners (Ismailies) are not shia, because they don’t believe in 12 imams then that is a theology not history (Just like Catholic and Protestant Christianity).

HISTORICAL FACT: Ismailies are Shia. The first shia empire (Fatimid Empire) was a Ismaili Shia Muslim empire.

As for salafies/wahabies: it is a movement not a school of thought. Sunnies have only four schools Hanifi, Maliki, Shafi’I, and Hambali. (If you are a Hanafi/shafi’i/hambali/maliki and disagree with other schools of thought that’s your problem not mine).

Ethic lesson: Please don’t say “you have lied” “you are lying” “you are misleading” etc.

Instead use words such as, I disagree, you are wrong, you need to do more research, I differ…etc.

As a reminder to myself and everyone else: May Allah give us an Islamic Adab.

Thank you brother for the reminders, and I hope you can understand I got worked up a little up there because of the irrational arguments being brought from the other user. My apologies, but having been an Ismaili, I can say for sure, that where-ever we went, and visited family, in whichever Jamat Khana in the world, if you call them Shias they will say no we are not Shias, that's someone else. When the term 'Shia' is lached onto the term 'Shia Imami Ismaili' I can say for a fact that everyone around me looked perplexed as to who was being referred to, then they realized oh they probably mean us. They do not associate with this title.

I think it's debatable to call the Fatimid dynasty a Shia empire, but to each their own.

However I do disagree with the analogy given of Catholics and Protestants, and Salafi/Wahhabi with respect to the four schools of Sunni thought, being compared to Ismailis with Shias. The Shias as well as Sunnis have unequivocally said that they do not recognize the Ismailis as being within the fold of Islam, so apart from not being Shia, they are not Muslim. In fact I do not consider my conversion as intra-faith (going from one sect to another), I consider it a conversion into Islam itself. For there is no concept of Quran being an authority in their way, and this is evident from reciting a short sura from the Quran such as Sura A'laa. They will come up to you (as they came up to me) and praise your recitation and then ask which Ginan you were were reciting. Ginan by the way is like a devotional song, which comes from a deep history in the Hindu religion. They don't know the Quran when they hear it, and when you ask them to give the Quran a try, as one might to their Christian and Jewish friends, you'll many a time get arrogant responses as if they are above it. There are the soft-hearted exceptions, I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the proud apologetic ones.

It directly depends on how do you interpret (salat, zakat, fast and hajj).

"Musulmani agar kahbah parasteest, parastaraani bout ra tahna az cheest!"

There is no re-interpretation sir. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and Imam Ali (as) and the rest of the Imams, even the ones that only Nizaris believe in clearly prayed Salah, even Aga Khan doesn't pray using the dua he has his followers use, he prays like the rest of the Ummah. So this excuse that salah can be interpreted as dua or namaz, is false. Salah requires a key component which is Quranically mandated, called Rukuu' or Genuflexion, which is absent in the Ismaili dua. Not to mention the sujood, as well as the earth (for example the tablets of karbala) and NOT on plush carpets. (Carpets came to the Prophets mosque about 250-300 years after Rasulallah died so he didn't make sujood on carpets, only on dirt and earth) Sujoods in the Jamat Khanas werent even putting your head on the ground it was touching your nose than your forehead and bowing a little was optional. This is not anywhere close to salah.

Fasting? "Our fast is of the eyes ears and hands" Even after that the things Ismailis will do with their eyes ears and hands, you ask them "what about your fast?" and they literally don't care.

When the Prophet (pbuh) and the Quran came to be a Furqaan (criterion) it was to eliminate black and white area. Not to leave gray area for Sultan Mohamed Shah and Karim Aga Khan, to introduce 3 new duas in the span of 150 years, in three different languages.

And I absolutely agree with what my brother Abdul Qaim above me has written as well.

Edited by ShababAlMahdi
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The Shias as well as Sunnis have unequivocally said that they do not recognize the Ismailis as being within the fold of Islam, so apart from not being Shia, they are not Muslim

I'm not aware of any fatawas from Shia scholars declaring Ismailis as kafir. Despite the corruption in their religion, at the end of the day they are technically still Muslims because they believe in "La ilaha illalah Muhammadur Rasoolillah." So regardless of practice, they are still within the fold of Islam although just barely as long as they attest to this statement.

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I'm not aware of any fatawas from Shia scholars declaring Ismailis as kafir. Despite the corruption in their religion, at the end of the day they are technically still Muslims because they believe in "La ilaha illalah Muhammadur Rasoolillah." So regardless of practice, they are still within the fold of Islam although just barely as long as they attest to this statement.

It can be deduced from other rulings they would not qualify as Muslims. So for instance, Nizari Isma`ilis deny the obligation of salat, fasting, hajj, etc, and denial of these which are counted as daruriyyat ad-deen is kufr.

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As for the so-called Agha Khan himself, then the following applies to him without doubt

ãÍãÏ Èä íÍíì Úä ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚíÓì Úä Úáí Èä ÇáÍßã Úä ÃÈÇä Úä ÇáÝÖíá Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå Ú ÞÇá: ãä ÇÏÚì ÇáÅãÇãÉ æáíÓ ãä ÃåáåÇ Ýåæ ßÇÝÑ

Muhammad b. Yahya from Abdallah b. Muhammad b. Isa from Ali b. al-Hakam from Aban from al-Fudhayl from Abi Abdillah Ú who said:

whoever proclaims his Imamah [i.e. declares himself to be an Imam] without being from its people then he is a Kafir.

and also

ÇáÍÓíä Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ãÚáì Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÏÇæÏ ÇáãÓÊÑÞ¡ Úä Úáí ÇÈä ãíãæä¡ Úä ÇÈä ÇÈí íÚÝæÑ ÞÇá: ÓãÚÊ ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã íÞæá: ËáÇËÉ áÇ íäÙÑ Çááå Åáíåã íæã ÇáÞíÇãÉ æáÇ íÒßíåã æáåã ÚÐÇÈ Ãáíã: ãä ÇÏÚì ÅãÇãÉ ãä Çááå áíÓÊ áå¡ æãä ÌÍÏ ÅãÇãÇ ãä Çááå¡ æãä ÒÚã Ãä áåãÇ Ýí ÇáÓáÇã äÕíÈÇ.

al-Husayn b. Muhammad from Mualla b. Muhammad from Abi Dawud al-Mustariq from Ali b. Maymun from Ibn Abi Yafur who said:

I heard Aba Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã saying:

Allah will not look at three people on the day of judgement, nor will he purify them, and they will have a painful punishment -

the one who claims Imamah from Allah without it being for him,

one who fights an Imam appointed by Allah,

and those who think they have a (birthright) portion in Islam.

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It can be deduced from other rulings they would not qualify as Muslims. So for instance, Nizari Isma`ilis deny the obligation of salat, fasting, hajj, etc, and denial of these which are counted as daruriyyat ad-deen is kufr.

Salat, fasting, etc. are practices of religion (furu) not pillars. Not performing them might make someone a fasiq but not kafir. A kafir is someone who denies the fundamentals of faith which are belief in Allah (SWT) and His Prophet (saw). If Ismailis are kafir for not praying or fasting then what do you have to say about Sunnis who unlike the Ismailis, deny Imamate which is far more important than ritual worship.

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(bismillah)

Salat, fasting, etc. are practices of religion (furu) not pillars. Not performing them might make someone a fasiq but not kafir. A kafir is someone who denies the fundamentals of faith which are belief in Allah (SWT) and His Prophet (saw). If Ismailis are kafir for not praying or fasting then what do you have to say about Sunnis who unlike the Ismailis, deny Imamate which is far more important than ritual worship.

He's not talking about simply not practicing these pillars (they are pillars - in the hadith of the Imams [as] and the Prophet [sawa], they are pillars), by denying the obligation of these acts one becomes a kafir. If you don't practice these things but still believe Islam obligates them upon you, you are a Muslim, but a fasiq.

æÇááå ÃÚáã

Ýí ÇãÇä Çááå

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Merdan, I don't think Bohris will be considered momineen for having accepted wilayat of Ali (a.s) isn't enough. One has to accept all the 12 Imams (a.s) to be called as a Shia and considered as a momin, in the true sense of the word.

Bohris will only be considered as Muslims, just like the rest of them who accept Tawhid, Nubuwwah and dhuririyat al-deen.

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I'm not aware of any fatawas from Shia scholars declaring Ismailis as kafir. Despite the corruption in their religion, at the end of the day they are technically still Muslims because they believe in "La ilaha illalah Muhammadur Rasoolillah." So regardless of practice, they are still within the fold of Islam although just barely as long as they attest to this statement.

If you have any knowledge of some people called Banu Ummaya, then you know very well that "La ilaha illalah Muhammadur Rasoolillah" was uttered by all of the worst people, Amr ibn Al-'As, Muawiyah, and the likes. And what are you talking about, "regardless of practice"? Brother do you know what you are saying? If intentions are all that count, next time a friend of yours is in pain and needs an ambulance, say I have the intention that's enough, and don't call the ambulance for him. Honestly how absurd. I am aware that at this time no formal fatwas have been made, but those Shia scholars who I have mentioned, who had been Ismailis in the previous generations, they KNOW Ismailis are kaafirs. The general public and our scholars do not have access to their Jamat Khanas. Even this weekend I had to go to a weekend and they would not allow any pictures or videos inside their prayer hall, because they don't want real Muslims to be able to see. If they had the access they would without a shadow of a doubt, declare them kaafirs as their fellow scholars already have.

Salat, fasting, etc. are practices of religion (furu) not pillars. Not performing them might make someone a fasiq but not kafir. A kafir is someone who denies the fundamentals of faith which are belief in Allah (SWT) and His Prophet (saw). If Ismailis are kafir for not praying or fasting then what do you have to say about Sunnis who unlike the Ismailis, deny Imamate which is far more important than ritual worship.

No, RasulAllah (pbuh) said that Islam is built on five pillars: Shahadah, Salah, Zakat, Sawm, and Hajj. These are the pillars of religion. Now let's analyze step by step, because logically you need to go in that order, you can't go to Hajj if you haven't said your Shahadah.

Ismailis do clear shirk with the Aga Khan, and declare him to be a Mazhar of Allah (astaghfirallah) or an incarnation. So the first pillar: Shahadah is void for Ismailis, for those that even do say La Ilaha Illa Allah Muhammadur Rasulallah, and even if they say Ali Wali Allah, Ali Hujjat Allah, it doesn't matter, they still do shirk with their Aga Khan, and ask directly from him, not as a tawassul, but FROM him.

Ismailis do not establish salah, they have a shortened "dua" ritual chant, which is comprised of 6 units, and done at only 3 times. They do not believe in 5 times a day prayer. Forget that they do not even pray remotely correctly.

Ismailis do not pay the charity rate, there is no concept of Zakat in any of their communities.

Ismailis do not fast, let's not kid ourselves. However much they say "We fast with our eyes and ears and watnot" They even break that stuff, so let's not fool ourselves for the sake of them being within the fold of Islam.

Ismailis in general do not care nor do they go on the pilgrimage to Makkah. There are those who do, but their belief is that by seeing the face of the Aga Khan you have already completed your Hajj.

If you honestly think THIS is anywhere remotely close to Islam as brought by Rasulallah (pbuh) and taught by the Ahlul Bayt (as), then I honestly pray for you to see the light.

Edited by ShababAlMahdi
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this may help you guys answer some of your questions.

http://ismailignosis...-ismaili-islam/

I have not read your site thoroughly, but the start had some odiously cooked up answers.

I quote

Q. Why don’t Ismā‘īlī Muslim women observe pardah?

A. Pardah is not Islamic concept. Click Here to Read a post by NanoWisdoms where the contemporary Ismā‘īlī Imāms explain their views on the matter:

“But purdah, as now known, itself did not exist till long after the Prophet’s death and is no part of Islam. The part played by Muslim women at Kardesiah and Yarmuk the two most momentous battles of Islam next to Badr and Honein, and their splendid nursing of the wounded after those battles, is of itself a proof to any reasonable person that purdah, as now understood, has never been conceived by the companions of the Prophet. That we Muslims should saddle ourselves with this excretion of Persian custom, borrowed by the Abbassides, is due to that ignorance of early Islam which is one of the most extraordinary of modern conditions.”

- Imām Sulṭān Muḥammad Shāh Āgā Khān III

The fact is that women in pakistan after 9-11 falseflag , from among SECULAR shia, sunni, and I dont know which anchors might be the agha khani, atleast one ODIOUS Shehla Raza, one ODIOUS Meher Bokhari, one ODIOUS Fareeha Idrees, among many others, and in those videos posted here, where I saw agha khani khoja women, in the same way, short dresses, arms bare from the shoulder, stomachs showing, often the belly button, or the chest down.

Your question (as stated in the quote above) confuses the question of hijab. Hijab, Burka, Purdah are not exactly the same concepts and Quran has Ayat on the matter.

The way the iranian women dress on the media with scarf, is not BURKA, or PURDAH of the traditional type. It is SUFFICIENT for women to participate actively in many activities including NINJA, police and martial arts.

Why dont you HONESTLY admit that Iranians have posed a SERIOUS challenge to the followers of AGHA KHAN on several intellectual and therefore economic fronts which I shall very CLEARLY specify.

1. Iranians have achieved excellent results in literacy, both for the male and female population that EXCEEDS that of the Agha Khanis. Agha Khanis are mainly degree holder type, accountants, managers, some doctors, but NO innovation. Even despite moving to Canada, UK, USA, the agha khani khojas can name not a single innovator in scientific fields. There is a deep seated reason in psyche for it that you have also failed to diagnose.

2. Iranians have achieved excellence in innovation, in religious studies and you have failed to produce any new literature since the time of the fall of your Al-Amut. In addition, your innovation is hampered by your inabilities to cooperate as the iranians have done among themselves and so have our Lebanese brothers (May Allah keep them pure).

3. Why dont you admit honestly that since you have all these weaknesses, you are under the burden of compromises. You are making compromises after compromises just to survive, because your khojas have failed to lighten the flame of cooperation in your hearts that could be lightened by some kind of noor.

4. All the batinis seem to suffer from this emaciation and therefore failing to produce any economic prosperity. Be honest to me and look in your Jam Khanas !!!

5. The most important argument that shall face you is the materialized iranian challenge in a WORKABLE model for women. This the SINGULAR achievement of our Imam Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini Rahmetullah Alaih and the marajas guiding our people. When faced with this fact, your lies only need one little hole and all the air is OUT.

I await your deep, penetrating and scholarly analysis, go to your IIS scholars, Azim Nanji, Ali Asani and others. When I met some of your scholars, they were either speechless to my questions, or cooked a reply which was stretching the argument. I was unimpressed and they did not have a witness to shame them of the fabrication, they themselves knew were an odious fabrication.

I respect logic. Bring logic - in this matter - and you shall gain respect.

Again, comparing the very battle of survival, at Yarmouk, is not fair. It was a public situation, a situation of war. The situation in which purdah is the most important is the relaxed environment of social discourse, as in universities, as in peace, as in workplace. That is where the mind wanders to the evil temptations, not in the battle !!!

Personally, it appears to me that your imam, agha kahn 3 intended to advance arguments to take you to a necessary compromise - for survival in the western situation and also to moderate the extreme BURKA of India to a more moderate form, now in Iran - without denting your faith and that is what he did.

Edited by punjabishia
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