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In the Name of God بسم الله
Abdullah_A

Are Ismaili muslims?

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Ruwayd - Please kindly explain what shirk is according to your understanding?

 

As a matter of fact, Ismaili doctrine is the only tariqa that understands the concept of God as its unconditional absoluteness, by double-negating any imaginable and unimaginable attributes. So, to say what you just said above, is talking out of your ignorance.

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HERE'S WHY THE AGHA KHAN IS A FRAUD:

I was.passing by an Ismaili center one day around maghrib time so I decided.to go in there to do.my salat as it was less than a block away. I had never been inside one before but I had heard they were Shia and I figured that as a.fellow.Shia I would be welcomed there.

WRONG ANSWER

They would even let me in ! None of the wo.en were covered and none of the men had beards. The security stopped.me.at the door. I was sent to an office where a woman with no hijab at all told me that this was one of his (meaning the Agha Khan) houses and Inwas not allowed in because I am not Ismaili. She thendirectd me to go to a website to learn more if I was interested.

THEY ARE HIDING SOMETHING!

I do not trust them and do not consider them to be Muslims because they do not accept Muslims as their brethren.

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HERE'S WHY THE AGHA KHAN IS A FRAUD:

I was.passing by an Ismaili center one day around maghrib time so I decided.to go in there to do.my salat as it was less than a block away. I had never been inside one before but I had heard they were Shia and I figured that as a.fellow.Shia I would be welcomed there.

WRONG ANSWER

They would even let me in ! None of the wo.en were covered and none of the men had beards. The security stopped.me.at the door. I was sent to an office where a woman with no hijab at all told me that this was one of his (meaning the Agha Khan) houses and Inwas not allowed in because I am not Ismaili. She thendirectd me to go to a website to learn more if I was interested.

THEY ARE HIDING SOMETHING!

I do not trust them and do not consider them to be Muslims because they do not accept Muslims as their brethren.

 

Drama aside, why would you go anyway to an Isma`ili centre (not an open-for-all mosque) to say your prayers? Isma`ili Nizaris don't even allow their closer brethern Isma`ili Musta`alis (Bohras) let alone let a Zaidiyyah enter their place.

 

Comparatively to Sunnis, Shia sects - although they don't kill one another - do not get along well and tend to keep to themselves. An Isma`ili won't enter an Ithna `Ashari mosque, a Zaidiyyah won't enter an Isma`ili jamaat Khana and so on and so forth.

Edited by Marbles

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Drama aside, why would you go anyway to an Isma`ili centre (not an open-for-all mosque) to say your prayers? Isma`ili Nizaris don't even allow their closer brethern Isma`ili Musta`alis (Bohras) let alone let a Zaidiyyah enter their place.

 

Comparatively to Sunnis, Shia sects - although they don't kill one another - do not get along well and tend to keep to themselves. An Isma`ili won't enter an Ithna `Ashari mosque, a Zaidiyyah won't enter an Isma`ili jamaat Khana and so on and so forth.

Because I DID NOT KNOW that they would let me in. If you really read my post you would.see that I said I had never been to one before. I didn't know about the Ismailis, had only been Shia for about a year or two andAll I knew is that I had heard that Ismailis were Shia. So I thought I was heading into a Shia masjid. That's what I kept telling them too. I kept asking why they were keeping M out when I am Shia.

In any case I am Zaydi and I go to 12er masjid all the time. There has never been an issue with that.

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They arent "hiding" something. Its just that non Ismailis dont get into jamatkhana during dua. I can explain more if you have questions. But why would you really want in? You can usually go in as long as no prayers are being said, but only Ismailis are allowed during dua. Ismailis dont do salat like you. Its a different dua said while sitting on the ground and not facing mekka. So there's no point in a non Ismaili praying in there.

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They arent "hiding" something. Its just that non Ismailis dont get into jamatkhana during dua. I can explain more if you have questions. But why would you really want in? You can usually go in as long as no prayers are being said, but only Ismailis are allowed during dua. Ismailis dont do salat like you. Its a different dua said while sitting on the ground and not facing mekka. So there's no point in a non Ismaili praying in there.

I stated why I went. I did not know that. And why,if what they are.doimg is correct, would they keep me.out? 12ers.do not.screen people to make sure they are 12ers before entering their masjid. Why not just explain that they do things differently?

That is PURE sectarianism and therefore unIslamic. Any Muslim should be allowed into any Islamic house of worship.

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Bihar al Anwar vol:54 page.198(arabic)

Kitab al Shifa( ibn sina) chapter on universal intellect.

Shows Ahlulbayts divine manifestations..

Correct understanding of wilayah takwinniyah, would to accept the absence of their free will, for Allah manifests their form

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It is SAD to see that some of the topics on this website are geared to negatively judge other sects of Islam!

Is everyone here in this website a Muslim? None of us know the REAL meaning of being a muslim (ISLAM)! It means tollerance, peace, forgiveness, itellect (Knowledge), Personal judgement, and all those good attributes that our beloved Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) sacrificed his whole life in devotion of...and I repeat "good" attributes ONLY!! And above all "BROTHERHOOD" Anyone disagrees?? Yet! discussions like these keeps us Ummah apart, and we are letting non-Muslims rule over us because we are divided ourselves, discounted with lack of unity, peace, tollerance, and all of the above attributes of being a good Muslim.

NOTE: My address today is to ALL of you (Including the Ismailis in this post). I myself am a devoted practicing Ismaili Muslim.

One thing I have learnt from our Holy faith above all (being a Muslim) is that Intellect surpasses what we all do regarless of our belief of our faith. You can memorize the whole of the Quran, or any part of any sect of Islam's prayers, rituals, etc...even if we know the meaning of what we recite, withouth adequate intellect, we can all superficially understand our faith which leads us to the above arguments and disgusting things that comes out of our mouths in anger (And by the way...ANGER is forbidden in Islam).

So, in conclusion...here my take on being a Muslim. 1. Have enough intelligence to interprete our Glorious faith of Islam and practice the smaller aspect of our faith first to acieve the bigger aspect of it. If we can not practice the basic principles of our faith like "Brotherhood" how can we claim to know our faith the best!! We have 2 fights to fight A. To "defend" (Not offensive) our faith collectively with Ummah (Jihad-e-Asgar) B. To fight a bigger fight (Jhad-eAkbar), which is against our undesired inticts, to control our anger (especially towards our own brothers and sisters), but of-course above all anything that hinders our spiritual connection to Allah.

I think, the enemy of our faith are non other then ourselves, those who divide the Ummah! And make the Ummah weak. WHY? Why do we judge ourselves? and talk bad about our own family (Ummah)? Why do we judge others of our own? We all are under the same umbrella of the "Shahada". Who is wrong or who is right? why do we judge others then? Isn't He the only judge Al-Hakam (الحكم)? So, if we claim to be Muslims, we surely can live by it's simple and basic principle of "Brotherhood".  Living with this principle/practice is the choice of an individual and I know that there will be some who will not embrace these principles and decide to break the Ummah but that will be between you and Allah.....................I have no say on that!

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Like Sufi Tariqahs that practice in Jamatkhanas and Khanaqas and Ribats - where admission is only open to those who gave bayat to the Murshid of the Tariqah, the Ismaili Jamatkhana during prayer time service is only open to Ismailis who gave bayah to the Imam of the Time.

 

It is a very logical idea - the word bayah means buying - selling; and the bayah between Murid and Murshid is a spiritual covenant that involves both parties making promises to one another. The Ismaili Tariqah rituals are part of that bayah between each Ismaili murid and the Imam of the Time; non-murids have no rights to this bayah because they have not taken it - so therefore they have no rights to access the Jamatkhana services all of which express in ritual, the Imams relationship to his murids. 

 

Why are we starting out with the assumption that by default, all religious practices must be public! Who ever said that. The Quran even says to ask permission before entering any house. The jamatkhana is the House of the Living Imam and one needs his permission to enter - nobody has any rights to enter a private space.

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Ex-Ismaili Comments on the Nizari Ismaili "Holy Du'a" vs Islamic Namaz

Note: Even though this video suggests that Nizari Ismailis do a full sujood in their Holy Du'a, trust me: they DO NOT - and the reason is because they sit cross-legged or zig-zag legged (as per the picture below) when saying their Holy Du'a in their "jamatkhanas," making a full sujood impossible for almost of all of them except those with very flexible bodies.

For those wondering, here is how the inside of a typical Nizari Ismaili jamatkhana looks during most communal acts of worship, including when the "Holy Du'a" is being recited:

tumalaaa.png

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

It was difficult getting this picture!

This is not Ismailis while praying. Women sit on the opposite side from men to avoid distraction while praying. This is ismailis during a wedding. This is trying to deceive. Any questions regarding ismaili practices I would love to answer. Thank you.

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Salam,

At what period did the Agha khani Ismaïlis dua replace Salah ?

How did the community react ?

By the way, do you have Ulama and madressa or hawza system ?

The Dua was introduced by the 48th hereditary Imam Sultan Mohammed Shah. The Dua had 17 parts and was in Gugurati. It is said that the idea of a Ismaili Dua came from the 47th Imam. The reason it was introduced is debateable. For many many years the Ismailis were in hiding. They had to practice Taqiyyah. When the Ismaili Imams got political power, the Ismailis no longer had to hide. That is when the dua was introduced. It is the belief of the Ismailis that is the sole perogative of the Imam to choose how the Ismailis will pray. The Ismailis have religious education called Bait ul Ilm. This starts for children grades kindergarten to 12. There are scholars in the faith as well. They are called Al-Waez. They deliver education/sermons at the Jamtkhanas. Any other questions?

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Salam,

At what period did the Agha khani Ismaïlis dua replace Salah ?

How did the community react ?

By the way, do you have Ulama and madressa or hawza system ?

As for the current dua, the 49th Imam, changed it to Arabic, so it would be the universal language of Islam. The current Dua has 6 parts starting with Sura Fatia. After each part, the Ismailis make sujood.

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