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thebigmans

Would you marry a religious guy that was poor?

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Secondly, not everybody gets the same opportunities. Some guys were absolutely rich and lost all their wealth whole some were mighty poor and made money overnight but its no secret that generally money begets money. The guys who have no money, chances are they will always poor since they dont have the same opportunities as the rich.

This explanation suffices. There is hardly a need to embellish it any further with fatalism and kismet.

Btw, we are off-topic.

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This explanation suffices. There is hardly a need to embellish it any further with fatalism and kismet.

Btw, we are off-topic.

Imam Ali is not an embellisher but eventually the natural laws will validate him. I believe the Quran that says the People of Aad were born to make money. So the reasons may even be genetic so who knows.

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salaamz

I know of a few good religious men who are not very rich. They have very low paid jobs. They dont have the confidence to approach the families of girls. What is the solution to this problem? How do you find a woman who will accept a poor guy or a student?

Why is a student perceived to be poor? It's not the same thing, usually it's just a temporary lack of wealth that sorts itself out later on when studies are over. I'm sure there are many sisters on here that have married men that were still full time students. Sure it takes longer for you to afford the things you need to settle down together, but that's not real poverty is it? :unsure:

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Why is a student perceived to be poor? It's not the same thing, usually it's just a temporary lack of wealth that sorts itself out later on when studies are over. I'm sure there are many sisters on here that have married men that were still full time students. Sure it takes longer for you to afford the things you need to settle down together, but that's not real poverty is it? :unsure:

No it's not.

Being student is not a reason to avoid marriage. Smiley made this point, and she speaks out of real experience rather than mere theory- her responsibilities are far more demanding than that of a typical student. Also, someone on here, Zeynab-Europe I think her name was, wrote about how she and her husband dealt with finances as students. It definitely can be done with a little maturity and forbearance.

Mandate - thanks for the quotes from Ali.

Edited by Dirac Delta function

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I don't think it is difficult to determine someone's financial position as it is tangible, but I am always a little confused when someone says a religious guy or girl - how do you define that? how do you determine that? Unless you know that, it is hard to answer the question.

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salaamz

I know of a few good religious men who are not very rich. They have very low paid jobs. They dont have the confidence to approach the families of girls. What is the solution to this problem? How do you find a woman who will accept a poor guy or a student?

I cannot marry a religious man who is poor but if I was a girl then yes I must marry a religious guy who is poor because he is in truth very rich with a wage from Allah that does not stop. Why is there no confidence to approach the parents? Do you mean really the girl is voting no confidence for this venture? If the man is of no confidence then he is to make confidence before he can marry. This no confidence mean the man is pray to the parents and not pray to Allah to know his worth. If the man knows of his spiritual worth then he cannot vote no confidence in himself or he knows the spiritual worth is low and this is the real truth. If the man is to know himself jihad then he is to know his worth and all the females will know this when he speaks and he is but most men understand not.

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I don't think it is difficult to determine someone's financial position as it is tangible, but I am always a little confused when someone says a religious guy or girl - how do you define that? how do you determine that? Unless you know that, it is hard to answer the question.
^ indeed
I also agree!

I join the club too.

To add my two cents, generally the religiosity of a person is unsatisfactorily measured, among other things, by their observing the wajibaat like prayers, fasting, zakat/khums, their abstaining from alcohol, pre-martial sex, and in extreme cases, by their appearance, such as beard for men and hijab for women. This approach may be a good starting point or an indicator of the proper religiosity [as well as humaneness] of a person but this is not an end in itself. This does not in any way guarantee that a person would be a good Muslim in broader sense of the word. For example this is not an indicator of a person's fairness, justice, propriety in dealings and behaving with others, and whether s/he would make a good wife/husband or not. The latter set of characteristics is too often neglected and not given proper attention. I should add that it is also difficult to find out. . .one can only make informed guesses.

Some of us have a very narrow definition of being religious. It can go as far as believing that women who wear jeans are irreligious [at least among desis], non-hijabis are irreligious, people who watch movies and listen to songs are irreligious - as we have seen in one of the posts here. -_-

Edited by Marbles

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I am not narrow minded however I must say that observing hijab (complete hijab not only the physical portion of it) is something very very important in Islam , so women not wearing/practicing hijab , they're respected like any other women however they are not completely religious because they are missing a huge portion of Islamic practice. Same goes for hijabis who, for instance, do not pray but are just wearing hijab because they're told to, these are also non practicing Muslims .

Yes, I get your point. But I was specifically talking about hijab as head covering. Women who observe spiritual hijab and who also dress up modestly, but do not cover their hair in public are unjustly declared as irreligious or even immodest. I don't buy this line. I don't think religiosity hangs on in the practice of covering hair or in case of men, in keeping beards. [no offence to hijabis and bearded men intended. . .]

In many cases, hijab as head covering can be deceptive let alone an indicator of religiosity/modesty. As you rightly point out, some might cover their hair because they are required to do so as a family/cultural practice and not because they want to.

By the way, I am not anti-hijabi in case someone thinks I am.

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Yes, I get your point. But I was specifically talking about hijab as head covering. Women who observe spiritual hijab and who also dress up modestly, but do not cover their hair in public are unjustly declared as irreligious or even immodest. I don't buy this line. I don't think religiosity hangs on in the practice of covering hair or in case of men, in keeping beards. [no offence to hijabis and bearded men intended. . .]

In many cases, hijab as head covering can be deceptive let alone an indicator of religiosity/modesty. As you rightly point out, some might cover their hair because they are required to do so as a family/cultural practice and not because they want to.

By the way, I am not anti-hijabi in case someone thinks I am.

you are sooo very right on this!

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I get your point too. And nah I did not think you are anti-hijabi although it's becoming famous in the area where I live in, Muslim men are starting to put it as a marital condition that the woman they marry must remove her hijaab. << That, I do not understand.

Neither do I. The rebarbative cretins who ask women to remove their hijabs have no confidence in themselves - - and the same is true for those who force hijab on women.

Hijab is women's personal religious preference and men have no say in it. But many don't see it that way.

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Neither do I. The rebarbative cretins who ask women to remove their hijabs have no confidence in themselves - - and the same is true for those who force hijab on women.

Hijab is women's personal religious preference and men have no say in it. But many don't see it that way.

You're right but I must correct you on this , Hijab is a women's personal religious obligation , as it is compulsory in Islam.

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You're right but I must correct you on this , Hijab is a women's personal religious obligation , as it is compulsory in Islam.

LOL. okay I will accept that. But I should emphasize that my point depends on the red-coloured key word.

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"Religious". This is such a term that can be applied to many people. It's easy to say this man or that woman is religious. But the real test and the real question is are they a MU'MIN. A religious person can go around giving zakat and preaching to others 'no brother this is haram', this and that, and can say when we should fast and when salat time is, but when they're tested in something or in an area where they are hard-willing to give up a particular unIslamic attribute or issue, real mu'mineen are difficult to find. When you turn your back and are not seeing what they do behind the scenes, they might do many un-Islamic things.

People who wish to marry should search for true mu'mineen and mu'minat who obide or try to obide by ALL Islamic laws to the best of their abilities. Not following 90% and then neglecting the last 10%. This doesn't work that way. Either you give 100% or don't. You can not say you love Allah and love his Ahlul Bayt and say you are a mu'mina and then not wear hijab. It is one of the key fundamental aspects of Islamic faith. For Allah's sake, it is the flag of our faith. You can not say you are a follower of Imam Ali a.s and his progeny and then strap on your headphones and shave your beard in the morning. Some people don't like to hear this but it's the truth, ask any alim and I guarantee they will tell you the same.

Just those few examples are simple, simple to obide by. Any woman who does not wear is directly disobeying Allah swt and is in direct confrontation, defiance and opposition to the whole ideology of Ahlul Bayt. How can this person be considered a mu'mina? It's simple logic. How can a person who listen to music, especially by kuffar and shaves his beard everyday for example even begin to associate himself with Ahlul Bayt? Is it so hard to understand? Brothers and sisters, inshallah everyone finds that mu'min who Allah swt has decreed for them ya rab. Remember a person's character and iman aren't determined by his/her words, but by their actions after their words.

Imam Sadiq (a.s) said: "Whoever is more attached to this world will be more regretful when he is about to depart from this world."

Abi Basir narrated that Imam Sadiq (a.s) said: "Whoever recognizes his destiny will not get ruined, and the people will not cry over what they lose, but over what they excessively obtain." He then asked: "How much will be enough for a man?" He then pointed to his hands.

Sorry to go on and keep typing, just wishing to instill some discourse.

Edited by jund_el_Mahdi

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Well then the guy should be willing to accept a girl who is religious but not beautiful (beauty being a woman's currency).

Yeah this is acceptable to one such as me when faced with a female of low physicality but of high spiritual currency. I am not agree that is physicality is a woman currency for this is part of many slogans sent down to the femals for observance of the hijab. I am not agree your physicality is the same for what I am revealing because physicality cannot be transfer to the male. If the male is of spiritual currency or the female is of spiritual currency then this is the true currency that is to be transferred among the believers that worship Allah together. Physicality is of no transference and is of no spiritual worth. Spiritual currency of the man or woman din and iman are of transference among believers and this is the currency I bring forth unto you but most men understand not.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

My parents do care for status a lot so i have to obey them but if they allow(in my dreams) then why not.If he shares same belief as i do,if he is from my caste and if he is tall,dark and handsome but then also he would have to live with my parents.JUST JOKING,i WOULDN'T because appearences are often deceptive.I think it's easy to say but far more difficult to practice.I think any girl from a sound background would not be eager to do so.Love lasts only for 2-3 months after marriage then money becomes important.It's really very difficult for a girl coming from sound background to settle with someone,having only looks and no money.So wealth wins the race.

(wasalam)

Edited by saba fatima naqvi

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salaamz

I know of a few good religious men who are not very rich. They have very low paid jobs. They dont have the confidence to approach the families of girls. What is the solution to this problem? How do you find a woman who will accept a poor guy or a student?

(bismillah) Wassalaam, dont worry about his salary, as long as he is a pious muslim. He's a perfect match. Our Masumeen AS tells us, that the wife is such a key figure within the circle of a marriage, that she alone by her actions can make her house a heaven or hell for her family. And as for those who fear that marriage will bring additional expenses and financial hardship, Allah SWT assures us in yet another ayaat of the Quran that He will in fact enhance the means of our sustenance when we marry : “And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; and if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His Grace; and Allah is ample-giving, Knowing.” (Sura Noor, 24:32) In this connection also we have a hadith from the holy Prophet SAW that in a marriage, the ‘maal’ (material wealth) will come with the luck of the wife, while the ‘aal’ (children) will be according to the share of the husbands luck! I hope this helps.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

My parents do care for status a lot so i have to obey them but if they allow(in my dreams) then why not.If he shares same belief as i do,if he is from my caste and if he is tall,dark and handsome but then also he would have to live with my parents.JUST JOKING,i WOULDN'T because appearences are often deceptive.I think it's easy to say but far more difficult to practice.I think any girl from a sound background would not be eager to do so.Love lasts only for 2-3 months after marriage then money becomes important.It's really very difficult for a girl coming from sound background to settle with someone,having only looks and no money.So wealth wins the race.

(wasalam)

So you will not consider marrying a non-Syed?

I agree with the red. Good point.

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"Religious". This is such a term that can be applied to many people. It's easy to say this man or that woman is religious. But the real test and the real question is are they a MU'MIN. A religious person can go around giving zakat and preaching to others 'no brother this is haram', this and that, and can say when we should fast and when salat time is, but when they're tested in something or in an area where they are hard-willing to give up a particular unIslamic attribute or issue, real mu'mineen are difficult to find. When you turn your back and are not seeing what they do behind the scenes, they might do many un-Islamic things.

People who wish to marry should search for true mu'mineen and mu'minat who obide or try to obide by ALL Islamic laws to the best of their abilities. Not following 90% and then neglecting the last 10%. This doesn't work that way. Either you give 100% or don't. You can not say you love Allah and love his Ahlul Bayt and say you are a mu'mina and then not wear hijab. It is one of the key fundamental aspects of Islamic faith. For Allah's sake, it is the flag of our faith. You can not say you are a follower of Imam Ali a.s and his progeny and then strap on your headphones and shave your beard in the morning. Some people don't like to hear this but it's the truth, ask any alim and I guarantee they will tell you the same.

Just those few examples are simple, simple to obide by. Any woman who does not wear is directly disobeying Allah swt and is in direct confrontation, defiance and opposition to the whole ideology of Ahlul Bayt. How can this person be considered a mu'mina? It's simple logic. How can a person who listen to music, especially by kuffar and shaves his beard everyday for example even begin to associate himself with Ahlul Bayt? Is it so hard to understand? Brothers and sisters, inshallah everyone finds that mu'min who Allah swt has decreed for them ya rab. Remember a person's character and iman aren't determined by his/her words, but by their actions after their words.

Imam Sadiq (a.s) said: "Whoever is more attached to this world will be more regretful when he is about to depart from this world."

Abi Basir narrated that Imam Sadiq (a.s) said: "Whoever recognizes his destiny will not get ruined, and the people will not cry over what they lose, but over what they excessively obtain." He then asked: "How much will be enough for a man?" He then pointed to his hands.

Sorry to go on and keep typing, just wishing to instill some discourse.

Salaam, Excellent point brother, Wassalaam

(bismillah)

(salam)

My parents do care for status a lot so i have to obey them but if they allow(in my dreams) then why not.If he shares same belief as i do,if he is from my caste and if he is tall,dark and handsome but then also he would have to live with my parents.JUST JOKING,i WOULDN'T because appearences are often deceptive.I think it's easy to say but far more difficult to practice.I think any girl from a sound background would not be eager to do so.Love lasts only for 2-3 months after marriage then money becomes important.It's really very difficult for a girl coming from sound background to settle with someone,having only looks and no money.So wealth wins the race.

(wasalam)

(bismillah) Salaam, I agree, ensha Allah maybe we can sort something out. Its all about being religious, money is just a small thing. Wassalaam

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(salam)

My husband and I married without having money.

We married because we didn't wanna do haram things.

For me the most important reason was this one:

The Holy Prophet said: "The person who marries gains half of his Faith, then he must fear of Allah for the next remaining half."

Al-Kafi, vol. 5, p. 328

I never ever thought about the money.

(wasalam)

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I don't think religious people are poor. Especially when you bare the love of Ahlul Bayt a.s in your heart - reminds me of a hadeeth from a video Tayyeb showed me..

This person approached Imam Ridha (8th Imam) a.s because of his poverty, and complained about his situation.. Imam Ridha a.s told him that his situation isn't bad at all, this process of exchanging complaint and Imam's reply took place 3 times - Then Imam Ridha a.s bargained with him, and told him, I will uncover ALL the gold in this Dunya for you - IF you give me something that you have - The man happily replied "What is it ya Imam?" - Imam Ridha a.s "Give me the love of Hussein, Give me the love of the Ahlul Bayt back" The mans reply: "I shall not do such bargain"

I really think people aren't poor when they have Ahlul bayt in their heart, in their day to day transactions Allah s.w.t is in their mind, their moral conduct is very good, they follow the teachings of the Ahlul bayt thus being successful in bringing up spiritually refined children, leading a very good marriage life and finally leading a modest, easy life.

However, one does need to earn enough to accomodate for the necessities such as a house, car, family needs etc - im sure these people are able to cater for that, or atleast already have a job which accomodates for the necessities of one and ones family.

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I actually knew a well religious big bearded broke as hell brother once who has now transformed himself to a local club DJ. He is also a walking encyclopedia on contemporary drink mixing techniques. In any case, this happens to be strong trend these days contrary to popular belief.

And please don’t throw the "OMG BIG BEARED WAHABI, EW I DIDNT MEAN HIM, HE CANT BE RELIGIOUS, I MEANT A NICE TRIMMED SHIA LOOKING RELIGIOUS BROTHER HOT HOT HOT" excuse at me. Trust me, when I say my big bearded friend was mad religious, I actually mean he was a 100 times more religious than you freaks who subconsciously decide its haram to shower on Tues and Mondays just because your great grand mother blindly took every word in Tohfah-tul-awam as the sacred word of god.

So now you sisters have a crush on a nicely trimmed shia boy who is also filthy rich, bearing in mind that Mike Tyson also used to be filthy rich once upon a time. You now proceed in trying to judge a man's religious character.

Firstly, you sisters need to stop reaching conclusions by monitoring the brothers Jumma prayer attendance and the number of times he has lead prayers during Ramadan. Such inferential techniques, no matter what the percentage of your confidence interval will bear results that are severely inconclusive. My friend Hamza bin Jamaatussami regularly leads Friday prayers at our Uni, but then he is always found chilling outside the ladies entrance tentatively seeking young sisters who are in desperate need of an older brother to shelter them from the unislamic, evil and satanic pressures of biology labs and problems in philosophy.

Its exceedingly frustrating trying to hang a brother as high as can be on a momin measuring scale. So the question is, do you trust your heart and go by gut instincts in perceiving this man’s religious character? Or do you trust HIS heart since you happen to arbitrarily fall madly in love (AKA infatuation these days) with this brother?

If you are ever caught in this dilemma to begin with, the probability is that you are too stupid and shouldn’t trust either of the two parties. This is where it’s imperative that you seek counselling and help from a third party.

This third party could be me or your local school janitor with thousands of years of observational experience. If you cannot reach us because are we are too preoccupied with other stupid clients. I would suggest you study the brother’s transformational patterns. All men go through transformations and phases (Big beard broke ---> big 4 DJ Tyson Rich). The key to finding a perfectly suitable broke religious partner is to understand the philosophy and essence behind such changes. Obviously this is very hard to do, in such times it’s best to become best friends with the brothers best friend newly turned enemy and take every word he says to heart like your great grand mother once did.

Good luck seekers and happy mating.

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You're right but I must correct you on this , Hijab is a women's personal religious obligation , as it is compulsory in Islam.

LOL. okay I will accept that. But I should emphasize that my point depends on the red-coloured key word.

Calm only half corrected you on that.. Hijab is women's PUBLIC religious obligation.

Hijab is not a "PERSONAL" domain, it's rather a PUBLIC domain because it's a right of the PUBLIC...Think about it

*Edit*

And back to the topic: It is wajib on the husband to provide for his wife atleast exactly (if not better) the way she was being provided for at her fathers house. Now obviously her father has spent years and struggled a lot before he achieved that status whereas the young man who has probably just graduated would not be able to meet her financial demands in the same way.. so she may, ofcourse, agree let go that right. It is important that this issue is clarified prior to marriage.

Edited by Simba

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That doesn't sound reasonable to me. Do you have evidence to support this?

Question: I would like to have more information regarding the depth and extent of a husband's obligations for maintenance and expenses of the wife. Is it true that the husband should provide the same level of life (luxuries, maids, education) as the wife had before marriage? Does the answer differ from one scholar to another? Are there any hadith and/or rulings in this regard?

Answer: The husband is obliged to provide his wife with food, clothing and housing in conformity with her social status and dignity; dignity meaning the same level of life that she had before marriage. In this regard, the scholars share the same view.

http://sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&nid=5&cid=539

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The prophets, Imams and the most pious of people are usually are poor. This is because when you reach a level of faith as these people do money and material loose their value.

As for the women who look at good poor men as not worthy, then in fact it is she who is not worthy of him. Saying that I think he would be better off without such a woman who chooses the riches of this life over the next.

Salam to all from Algerian Shia

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Question: I would like to have more information regarding the depth and extent of a husband's obligations for maintenance and expenses of the wife. Is it true that the husband should provide the same level of life (luxuries, maids, education) as the wife had before marriage? Does the answer differ from one scholar to another? Are there any hadith and/or rulings in this regard?

Answer: The husband is obliged to provide his wife with food, clothing and housing in conformity with her social status and dignity; dignity meaning the same level of life that she had before marriage. In this regard, the scholars share the same view.

http://sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&nid=5&cid=539

Another of A. Sistani's rulings

401. It is obligatory on the husband to provide for the wife if she is a permanent wife and obedient to him in matters in which she is required to obey him. In this case, it is obligatory on the husband to provide whatever the wife needs in her life like food, dress, and accommodation with the required amenities like fan, air-conditioner, carpets, furniture, etc. that are commensurate with her status as his wife. Such status would differ according to place, time, circumstances, common perceptions, customs, standard of living, etc. (See the question-answer section below.)

http://www.najaf.org...5/inside/45.htm

I also share sister Smiley's concerns, this ruling sounds far more reasonable to me. If we implement the above, then even men who are temporarily lacking in material wealth (e.g. students) would be discouraged from proposing to a girl. Unfortunately this is a problem today.

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salaamz

I know of a few good religious men who are not very rich. They have very low paid jobs. They dont have the confidence to approach the families of girls. What is the solution to this problem? How do you find a woman who will accept a poor guy or a student?

What do you mean by "low paid jobs"? Why don't these men have higher paying jobs? Is it because of the economy? Or are they not ambitious in their professional lives? Or is it that they are doing something that isn't all that lucrative (which is perfectly fine)? Is there upward mobility in their jobs so that they may be earning less now, but more later if they stay with the company?

I don't mean to sound harsh or judgmental but people should really strive to be the best (or at least better than their current position) in their fields, whatever the field, even if the field itself is low-paying. For example, if they are working under someone, they should strive to become the boss. There is so much that can be done with money-- and I don't mean a bigger house or more clothes. Bibi Khadija's money went toward building the ummah. I really think that if Muslims that had the opportunity to earn more actually did, we as a world would be a better place-- less poverty, a stronger ummah.

It doesn't make a man/woman bad or worth any less to be earning less, but I just think that if someone recognizes something about themselves that can be improved, then they should try to improve it.

As for students, there certainly are families that would give their daughters to them. People realize that studying is a temporary situation during which money will be tight. This shouldn't deter students from asking for the hands of people's daughters.

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