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In the Name of God بسم الله

Blatant US hypocricy, pics speak louder than words

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The thing that really irks me is this... where was Obama when US "civil servants" were beating the living [Edited Out] out of the far left protesters outside both the Democratic National Convention and the Republic National Convention this past election cycle? Where was his outrage at the government using violence on its own people? Where was John McCain, for that matter? Why have neither of them condemned the Denver or Minneapolis police departments for their use of tear gas, batons, tazers and rubber bullets on American citizens just voicing their human right to dissent? Why are they not speaking in condemnation to those police departments for the unwarranted and illegal detention of those people? Let alone the deliberate exclusion of alternative press outside CNN, Fox, NBC, CBS and ABC?

What about the BBC and the British government when Ian Tomlinson was murdered by London police? Or the scores of other protesters that got their butts kicked protesting the G20? What's going to happen about protesters at the G8 in Italy just around the corner?

Edited by Zenshiite
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Obama, in his own words today:

"I strongly condemn these unjust actions, and I join with the American people in mourning each and every innocent life that is lost."

"We deplore the violence against innocent civilians anywhere that it takes place."

"Those who stand up for justice are always on the right side of history."

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And yet... he's still as hypocritical as all American presidents... particularly in light of the repression witnessed at the DNC and RNC that he's never commented on.

Zen, can you give more info on the protests at the DNC and RNC?

The same can be said about the French anti-Christ president Nicolas Sarkozy who ended up violently suppressing his own people in 2007. By the way, any one know of rioters that were killed at that time?

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RNC 2008

Battle of Seattle 99

I was wrong about 2008 DNC, seems there wasn't much that went on there.

I have to laugh at some of the stuff people throw around on this website, such as links to Wikipedia articles with statements such as, "The massive size of the protest pushed the city of Seattle $3 million over their estimated budget of $6 million." Look, children, Seattle's budget in 2009 is $3.6 billion. Do you think the city budget has grown 600-fold in 10 years, or do you think your Wikipedia source is produced by a bunch of fools who don't know a single thing? I'll vote for the latter, and note that Wikipedia's credibility is routinely satirized by commentators on all points of the political spectrum here.

Shia children, please take more care with respect to your sources and citations. When the "grand leader" pointed to the mass cult suicide in Waco, Texas, that sound you heard over the Western horizon was laughter. When you cite Paul Craig Roberts, who is two steps away from an insane asylum, and point people to a white supremacist website for arguments supporting your position, all you do is inspire hilarity. Get serious, Shia children, because you are establishing yourselves as complete fools.

Oh, by the way, the riots in Seattle were started by about 50 anarchist thugs who traveled there from the town of Eugene, Oregon, about 300 miles away. The Seattle police didn't expect the violence, and neither did the city administration, so they were caught unprepared. Interestingly enough, rather than special courts established by the Iranian theocratic dictator bent on making a mockery of the so-called "Islamic Republic," in Seattle many of the protestors arrested during the riot were paid an average of $2,000 apiece for the inconvenience. The Iranian thugs, on the other hand, are trying to collect a $3,000 "bullet" free from the parents of one of the protestors that the government murdered in cold blood.

Nice society they've got over there. Fits well with the burkahs and the stonings and the "Basij" and the grand leader who thinks an 1,100 year-old nine-year-old boy is hidden in some "sacred city" getting read to lead us into the promised land or something. Some "Islamic Republic." Between you people and our evangelical Christian fanatics, it's a wonder that the other 98% of the population hasn't long since turned atheist.

Edited by curious american
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Bro Hizbullahi

Great minds thinking alike and all that. Here's what I posted yesterday:

post-6473-1245825063.jpg

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1914333

:lol:

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Shia children, please take more care with respect to your sources and citations. ... Get serious, Shia children, because you are establishing yourselves as complete fools. ... The Iranian thugs, on the other hand, are trying to collect a $3,000 "bullet" free from the parents of one of the protestors that the government murdered in cold blood. Nice society they've got over there. Fits well with the burkahs ...

Sigh ... and you who are so sure of your sources, repeat the "$3,000 bullet" story. That is unconfirmed from any reputable source, and is a propaganda story on the blogosphere. Very silly, very false.

Also, Iranian women don't wear burkahs, but rather, chadors.

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Zen, can you give more info on the protests at the DNC and RNC?

The same can be said about the French anti-Christ president Nicolas Sarkozy who ended up violently suppressing his own people in 2007. By the way, any one know of rioters that were killed at that time?

I don't know much about the US protests, but certainly soccer riots in France, Italy and Spain have been very violent, and have been met with a lot of violence by the authorities.

But the prime hypocrites are the British. No one can equal them on this or any other occasion.

Jean Charles de Menezes, the South American man shot repeatedly by British police when he was riding a train, is a well known case - which drew no protest from the US govt.

Equally disturbing were the scenes of violence at the recent G8 protests.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/london-man-...90408-a0us.html

London man who died at G20 protest attacked by police, video shows

Paul Lewis, London

April 9, 2009

A MAN who died at last week's G20 protests in London was attacked from behind and thrown to the ground by a baton-wielding police officer in riot gear. Moments after the assault on Ian Tomlinson was captured on video, he had a heart attack and died.

Dramatic footage obtained by The Guardian sheds fresh light on the events surrounding the death of the 47-year-old newspaper seller, who had been on his way home from work when he was confronted by lines of riot police.

... The film reveals that as Mr Tomlinson walks, his hands in his pockets, he does not speak to the police or offer any resistance. [He is then thrown to the ground and assaulted, and subsequently died of a heart attack - assisted only by passers by.]

...The man who filmed the incident was a fund manager from New York in London on business.

The Guardian's dossier, which is to be handed to the police complaints watchdog, includes a sequence of photographs, taken by three people, showing the aftermath of the attack, as well as witness statements from people in the area. Witnesses said that, prior to the moment captured on video, Mr Tomlinson had already been hit with batons and thrown to the floor by police who blocked his route home.

One witness, photographer Anna Branthwaite, described how in the minutes before the video was shot, she saw Mr Tomlinson walking towards Cornhill Street.

"A riot police officer had already grabbed him and was pushing him," she said. "It wasn't just pushing him - he'd rushed him. He went to the floor and he did actually roll. That was quite noticeable," she said.

"It was the force of the impact. He bounced on the floor. It was a very forceful knocking down from behind. The officer hit him twice with a baton when he was lying on the floor. So it wasn't just that the officer had pushed him - it became an assault."

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(bismillah)

(wasalam)

You know they attacked a Taliban funeral, right? You know, Taliban? You know, the people that will turn on their own people because, hey, they are the Taliban?

Let me see if can explain:

Based on several sources I've read on the issue (all western sources; the East has absolutely no reliable sources that I have come across), one of the Taliban "lieutenants" has been (well, was) challenging the head of the Taliban in Pakistan.

He was killed by one of his bodyguards for challenging the hierarchy. A funeral attended by Talibani upper-ups ensued.

They got blown to bits by the Americans.

Now the Pakistanis' job will be a lot easier.

That's my summary to the best of my understanding. Feel free to challenge it.

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Sure!

How do you know the narrative is true?

There go go! That is the spirit, dear Sir! I mean this!

Short answer: I don't. I wasn't there.

Long answer: Please read below. Please.

The Pakistani government has been challenged by the Taliban for quite some time now. In fact, more Pakistani soldiers have died fighting the Taliban than American soldiers have (yes, REALLY).

One of the main problems that the Pakistani government runs into is that their main security apparatus (the ISI) has been very much anything anti-government and pro-anything anti-government (and by that I mean anything not "West" or Shi'ia ). This is one of the main reasons why they seem reluctant to engage the enemy. That, and the fact that this could potentially bankrupt Pakistan (they are currently NOT getting the help for the common people that does not care about politics and just want to live his life).

The US has the fire power and intelligence, and the Pakistanis have the intelligence and ground forces (laugh all you want, but the Pakistani Army is...well, when the suck comes along, those guys are right there in the middle of it).

I need to go to bed. I will cite the things that I have posted (especially about the Pakistani Army being MUCH better than people give them credit for) tomorrow.

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There go go! That is the spirit, dear Sir! I mean this!

Short answer: I don't. I wasn't there.

Long answer: Please read below. Please.

The Pakistani government has been challenged by the Taliban for quite some time now. In fact, more Pakistani soldiers have died fighting the Taliban than American soldiers have (yes, REALLY).

One of the main problems that the Pakistani government runs into is that their main security apparatus (the ISI) has been very much anything anti-government and pro-anything anti-government (and by that I mean anything not "West" or Shi'ia ). This is one of the main reasons why they seem reluctant to engage the enemy. That, and the fact that this could potentially bankrupt Pakistan (they are currently NOT getting the help for the common people that does not care about politics and just want to live his life).

The US has the fire power and intelligence, and the Pakistanis have the intelligence and ground forces (laugh all you want, but the Pakistani Army is...well, when the suck comes along, those guys are right there in the middle of it).

I need to go to bed. I will cite the things that I have posted (especially about the Pakistani Army being MUCH better than people give them credit for) tomorrow.

Ok thats good. And when you wake up. I want you to think about the possibility of the other theory that the Taliban are an American proxy. How can your information shoot down the alternative theory.

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Ok thats good. And when you wake up. I want you to think about the possibility of the other theory that the Taliban are an American proxy. How can your information shoot down the alternative theory.

That drone strike was on the funeral of a senior Taliban leader that was killed the previous day. Of course, ALL the mourners must have been innocent passers by who happened to join the funeral, and NOT other senior Taliban members paying their last respects!!

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I'll concede that most of the mourners were probably baddies. Ok. BUT its still a FUNERAL. Attacking a funeral is like shooting a man in the back, like attacking him while he's praying. It isn't ok, no matter how much a baddie he is, to attack a funeral. "We" can't justify "our own" evil by saying "they were evil first".

The US had intelligence that Baitullah Mehsud may have been at the funeral. I know its not nice to attack a FUNERAL, but if the chance involves killing an important enemy, then no military organisation in the world would reject that chance.

I'm sure the Taliban in Pakistan have killed a number a civilians in their attempts to take out people they consider enemies. Civilians will always be in the crossfire in war.

Numerous bombings in Iraq have happened during religious parades. We must accept that muslims have been involved in carrying out these bombings also, so they have no respect for people in religious parades or ceremonies either.

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Shia children, please take more care with respect to your sources and citations. When the "grand leader" pointed to the mass cult suicide in Waco, Texas, that sound you heard over the Western horizon was laughter. When you cite Paul Craig Roberts, who is two steps away from an insane asylum, and point people to a white supremacist website for arguments supporting your position, all you do is inspire hilarity. Get serious, Shia children, because you are establishing yourselves as complete fools.

Nice society they've got over there. Fits well with the burkahs and the stonings and the "Basij" and the grand leader who thinks an 1,100 year-old nine-year-old boy is hidden in some "sacred city" getting read to lead us into the promised land or something. Some "Islamic Republic." Between you people and our evangelical Christian fanatics, it's a wonder that the other 98% of the population hasn't long since turned atheist.

Hate to break this to you friend, but when you and your President (and my PM - G.Brown) moralise about Iran, it's the Shia children who are laughing.

Your country financially support countless dictatorships across the region which are much worse than Iran in human rights and have less democracy (by less I mean zero). So how can your president criticise Iran without looking like a total hypocrite? He looked awfully sad when he talked about Neda. Does he care about the countless other Neda's being slaughtered by US client states and puppet regimes? Or does a death only register if it appears on YouTube?

Your president talks about freedom of expression and peaceful protest. Does that extend to Egypt, where political prisoners in the Tora Tora prison are forced to rape each other? Presumably not, as your country gives billions in aid to Egypt every year and Obama chose Cairo for his speech. Does your president's moral indignation extend to the still-expanding state of Israel, where according to NGO's Gazan women and children were shot point blank in the heads? Doesn't look like it.

Your objective American media has made sure that everyone in the world knows the name of "crazy" Ahmedinajad, and you yourself participate in his demonisation with your messages here. Have you heard of President Karimov of Uzbekistan? He deals with political prisoners by boiling them alive. Hardly anyone in the West has heard of him, because he obeys your president and the US even had troops stationed there.

Saudi, Tunisia, Morocco, Azerbaijan, Kyrgystan are all immeasurably worse than Iran but since these are compliant puppet regimes, neither you, nor the Western media, nor your president, care less about the fate of those unfortunate enough to seek "Change" there. You and your president would rather demonise Iran, Syria and other outspoken enemies of Israel. And perhaps I'm guessing your ire may extend to Venezuala, right? So are you informed about these things, misinformed, biased, or simply a fool?

Keep laughing though, they say it's the best medicine :lol:

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Hate to break this to you friend, but when you and your President (and my PM - G.Brown) moralise about Iran, it's the Shia children who are laughing.

Your country financially support countless dictatorships across the region which are much worse than Iran in human rights and have less democracy (by less I mean zero). So how can your president criticise Iran without looking like a total hypocrite? He looked awfully sad when he talked about Neda. Does he care about the countless other Neda's being slaughtered by US client states and puppet regimes? Or does a death only register if it appears on YouTube?

Your president talks about freedom of expression and peaceful protest. Does that extend to Egypt, where political prisoners in the Tora Tora prison are forced to rape each other? Presumably not, as your country gives billions in aid to Egypt every year and Obama chose Cairo for his speech. Does your president's moral indignation extend to the still-expanding state of Israel, where according to NGO's Gazan women and children were shot point blank in the heads? Doesn't look like it.

Your objective American media has made sure that everyone in the world knows the name of "crazy" Ahmedinajad, and you yourself participate in his demonisation with your messages here. Have you heard of President Karimov of Uzbekistan? He deals with political prisoners by boiling them alive. Hardly anyone in the West has heard of him, because he obeys your president and the US even had troops stationed there.

Saudi, Tunisia, Morocco, Azerbaijan, Kyrgystan are all immeasurably worse than Iran but since these are compliant puppet regimes, neither you, nor the Western media, nor your president, care less about the fate of those unfortunate enough to seek "Change" there. You and your president would rather demonise Iran, Syria and other outspoken enemies of Israel. And perhaps I'm guessing your ire may extend to Venezuala, right? So are you informed about these things, misinformed, biased, or simply a fool?

Keep laughing though, they say it's the best medicine :lol:

And I suppose Iran's allies like Russia, China, North Korea have a perfect record in Human Rights also?. No country points out what human rights violations are taking place in countries that are allied to them, but will always point them out in countries they consider enemies.

Thats world politics, live with it!!

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That drone strike was on the funeral of a senior Taliban leader that was killed the previous day. Of course, ALL the mourners must have been innocent passers by who happened to join the funeral, and NOT other senior Taliban members paying their last respects!!

Apparently that senior Taliban leader was no longer with the Taliban.

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but if the chance involves killing an important enemy, then no military organisation in the world would reject that chance.

And if there is a danger to the stability of the system and integrity of any nation, then no internal security organisation in the world would keep quite and let things go as usual.. I hope you understand this simple logic

Numerous bombings in Iraq have happened during religious parades. We must accept that muslims have been involved in carrying out these bombings also, so they have no respect for people in religious parades or ceremonies either.

So since they don't have respect, so it is justified if Moral Police like America etc also have no respect.. So that makes the Moral Cop of the world equivalent to those bombers.. Isn't it

Edited by shabib_jaisi
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I'll concede that most of the mourners were probably baddies. Ok. BUT its still a FUNERAL. Attacking a funeral is like shooting a man in the back, like attacking him while he's praying. It isn't ok, no matter how much a baddie he is, to attack a funeral. "We" can't justify "our own" evil by saying "they were evil first".

It's a war, not a chess match.

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Obama, in his own words today:

"I strongly condemn these unjust actions, and I join with the American people in mourning each and every innocent life that is lost."

"We deplore the violence against innocent civilians anywhere that it takes place."

"Those who stand up for justice are always on the right side of history."

Total hypocrisy.....but that's politics.

Obama is under pressure to say something.

I'm enjoying seeing him squirm.

Let's see what he says to Ahmadi in New York this September.

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Hate to break this to you friend, but when you and your President (and my PM - G.Brown) moralise about Iran, it's the Shia children who are laughing.

Your country financially support countless dictatorships across the region which are much worse than Iran in human rights and have less democracy (by less I mean zero). So how can your president criticise Iran without looking like a total hypocrite? He looked awfully sad when he talked about Neda. Does he care about the countless other Neda's being slaughtered by US client states and puppet regimes? Or does a death only register if it appears on YouTube?

Your president talks about freedom of expression and peaceful protest. Does that extend to Egypt, where political prisoners in the Tora Tora prison are forced to rape each other? Presumably not, as your country gives billions in aid to Egypt every year and Obama chose Cairo for his speech. Does your president's moral indignation extend to the still-expanding state of Israel, where according to NGO's Gazan women and children were shot point blank in the heads? Doesn't look like it.

Your objective American media has made sure that everyone in the world knows the name of "crazy" Ahmedinajad, and you yourself participate in his demonisation with your messages here. Have you heard of President Karimov of Uzbekistan? He deals with political prisoners by boiling them alive. Hardly anyone in the West has heard of him, because he obeys your president and the US even had troops stationed there.

Saudi, Tunisia, Morocco, Azerbaijan, Kyrgystan are all immeasurably worse than Iran but since these are compliant puppet regimes, neither you, nor the Western media, nor your president, care less about the fate of those unfortunate enough to seek "Change" there. You and your president would rather demonise Iran, Syria and other outspoken enemies of Israel. And perhaps I'm guessing your ire may extend to Venezuala, right? So are you informed about these things, misinformed, biased, or simply a fool?

Keep laughing though, they say it's the best medicine :lol:

Speaking of human rights in the Islamic Republic, one has to admire the lovely Iranian custom of raping political prisoners the night before they are executed. This is a consequence of a "fatwah" from one of the ruling hoo-hahs. Nice people.

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That would be called murder here in the US. Vigilantism.

Murder does not justify murder, and you can't compare yourself to the worst of the worst as an ideal. Is that what you strive to be?

"Collateral damage" is murder, and it is murder whether committed by Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, or anyone else.

At the early stages of WW2, if say the wife of one of hitlers generals had died, and intelligence pointed out that hilter, some generals and their wives and children would be at a funeral at a secret location. The Allies know this location and could possibly bomb it, should they?, or instead of a few innocents dying let the war continue and millions of innocents will die?

Do you think the Allies could of won the war by not bombing munitions factories, tank and aircrtaft factories, oil depots etc..., the personnel working in all these were civilians. No bombs from the Russian into Berlin during the final assault in case they killed civilians?

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Is this where it all started? :(

There is no justification for ANY non-combatants being killed in battle. Lack of regard for human life, not seeing people as individual people, but as "collateral damage" is a sign of the loss of humanity that we suffer from. As I understand it, Islam does not condone killing non-combatants in battle, and as far as I can tell Christianity preaches pacifism. It is just a coldness of the heart that makes us think its just an unfortunate necessary consequence to kill innocent people in order to "win".

Yeah, I'm as close to a pacifist as a rational person can be. My views may not reflect those of other Muslims.

I am pacifist also, my country Ireland is somewhat neutral. Well virtually every Islamic resistance movement in the world currently kills non-combatants on an almost daily basis. They must not share those Islamic values.

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I am pacifist also, my country Ireland is somewhat neutral. Well virtually every Islamic resistance movement in the world currently kills non-combatants on an almost daily basis. They must not share those Islamic values.

No, I'd say that so-called Islamic values are honored mainly in the breach. The "Islamic Republic" of Iran is a good example, of these "Islamic Values" at work.

Edited by curious american
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The people are not always a good representation of the religion. :(

Resistance to what? If they are resisting oppression they have a right to fight back. I only oppose aggression, not self-defense. I only oppose attacking those who are not fighting.

So many countries in the world currently seem to facing wars against hardline Islamists, from Philipinnes to Thailand, lots of countries in Africa, in southern Russia etc..., are all these resistance or are some agressive in wanting Islamic control over certain regions in a country?. If a couple of hundred thousand Christian in a muslim country demanded a certain region of that country which would be under Christian rule and law, would a Muslim country be happy, would that be resisting oppression?

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Speaking of human rights in the Islamic Republic, one has to admire the lovely Iranian custom of raping political prisoners the night before they are executed. This is a consequence of a "fatwah" from one of the ruling hoo-hahs. Nice people.

My question to you was whether you are informed, misinformed, biased or a fool. On the basis of your response I'll plump for biased - you're certainly not a fool.

Chitsaz and Samsani seem proud to belong to the PMOI/ NCRI terrorist - sorry, no-longer-officially-terrorist (slip) - group. Who will you be quoting next, curiousamerican, may I suggest Meir Kahane?

As per my original post, if you defend human rights then I applaud you, but if you're inconsistent about it then you're nothing but a hypocrite (like your president).

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