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In the Name of God بسم الله

Young Iranian woman shot in Tehran June 20

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At 19:05 June 20th

Place: Karekar Ave., at the corner crossing Khosravi St. and Salehi st.

A young woman who was standing aside with her father watching the protests shot by a basij member hiding on the rooftop of a civilian house. He had clear shot at the girl and could not miss her. However, he aimed straight her heart. I am a doctor, so I rushed to try to save her. But the impact of the gunshot was so fierce that the bullet had blasted inside the victim's chest, and she died in less than 2 minutes.

after the issue has been used like the Tshirt of Othman I thought they actually had very hard evidence because the shooter was on a rooftop of a military compound but please please how on earth did you Identify some one who was not only on a civilian house rooftop but also was dressed as a civilian , how did you identify him as being a Baseej member? did you see some sort of small tag from the shooting distance? and how on earth they knew what he aimed for unless they were looking through his binoculars ? what about the reports of police themselves being shot also?? did the Baseej also shoot the police?

Edited by alimohamad40
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First off, it is quite possible that people there heard the gunfire. The weapon used was a shotgun, which if you've ever fired one emits a distinctive blast that can be heard over just about anything else.

Further, Iran has very strict gun laws, so the liklihood it was a protester or civilian not given a weapon by the government is nil.

sir fix your information we already have enough misinformation going around.

I have Iranian Family in the villages they all had guns in the 1990s and they live in mountains and some times get attacked by bears. This was in Luristan borojerd kharam abad (abe sardah) and these regions

Also how can you say the shot was a shotgun? what i know about shotgun is that it disperses in a conical path so there is no way a shotgun can make one hole in the human body unless the distance is very very close. even from few meters it would disperse and create splinters before impacting.. and according to my information from 1990s we were able to buy air-rifles from the shops and probably shotguns too I am not sure.

mko is not in iran...smartypants.

some of my family inside Iran used to regard themselves as MKOS , i mean they used to defend them and I remember there was always debates about the issue.

so its false to Say MKO is only outside but MKO has a strong silent base inside as well.

Edited by alimohamad40
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It is not about Musavi or the election itself... iranian liberals want a secular system where they are free to do whatever. Given the freedom that ppl have in iran vs. other neighboring countries... liberals in iran still want more.

Maybe not so much a completely secular system as they want a more pluralistic system ... in both cases as opposed the current theocratic autocracy. When you say secular, that isn't like the US or like Britain ... they aren't secular countries. Secular is like Turkey or France; a system whereby the outward manifestations of religion are discouraged and even combated in the official and societal sense. I don't think that's what Iranians want at all.

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PS. I wouldn't like to see India turn into a Hindu state. I want India to remain secular. How about you, my friend?

Does Israel being a Jewish state bother you at all, did you hate to see that, aswell? Are you fighting for freedom on behalf of the Palestinians, who are subjected to abuse by their Israeli oppressors? What has the UN done about that? You're a hypocrit and a western ZOG puppet!!!!!!!!

Edited by celina
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Shame on all of you who feel any of this is justified, secondly this whole issue is blown out of proportion and has very little to do with Ahmadinejad despite me not taking a liking to him. God its annoying the hell out of me stormed with 123020320320 CNN and BBC articles pointing to this incident. My heart goes out to this woman and her family, but the attention this has got in context of the situation in Iran is preposterous.

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I don't have an internet source but i read in a newspaper that Basij has not been given such authorization, and that whoever fires shots is doing so without orders.

If its true it would mean that the state has failed and it can't control gun totting terrorists killing people randomly. 

The least they could do is to start thorough investigation into these incidents and put perpetrators to justice. 

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If its true it would mean that the state has failed and it can't control gun totting terrorists killing people randomly. 

The least they could do is to start thorough investigation into these incidents and put perpetrators to justice. 

The state has failed because MAYBE a baseej member out of 11 million+ baseejis wasn't stopped in time from killing someone?? .................. In that case, every country in the world has failed.

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Police Detects Suspicious Arms Distribution in Tehran

TEHRAN (FNA)- Media reports on Tuesday said that large cargoes of weapons and ammunitions have been smuggled into Tehran to arm rioters for a new surge of unrests after weeklong rallies and riots ceased on Sunday and Tehran could experience calm and order for a couple of days.

"Large caches of weapons have been transferred to Tehran through different entry points during the last few days and rioters can easily get cheap weapons in a number of neighborhoods in the Iranian capital," Persian-language daily, Javan reported without any specific details.

The Iranian police forces seized an arms shipment carrying 30 colts last weekend, the report added.

Prior to Iran's presidential election on June 12, Iranian security forces warned that supporters and foreign liaison of rioters had plans to transfer different types of weapons to Tehran in a bid to intensify possible post-election unrests.

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The empathy for these protesters (they're actually rioters) is appalling. No citizen burns, vandalizes and causes chaos. no normal citizen does any destruction because their choice for president lost by a 2 to 1 margin. They belong in jail and more.

There have been a bunch of troublemakers, but I'd say the great majority of protests and protesters have been peaceful. The Iranian government has been reacting disproportionately to the actions of the protesters. At most, you should throw people in jail for making trouble, not shooting people to kill them just for protesting. To me, from what I saw the past few days, the Basij are nothing more than the Iranian taliban.

If the elections were truly legitimate, which I'm still not totally convinced that they were (heck, the government basically admitted there was fraud in some areas of the country) hence the response from the government, Ayatullah Khamenei and the rest of the government shouldn't feel threatened enough to shoot and kill protesters.

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At most, you should throw people in jail for making trouble, not shooting people to kill them just for protesting. To me, from what I saw the past few days, the Basij are nothing more than the Iranian taliban.

People were attacking riot police en masse and even trying to break into military bases to get weapons, what do you expect? I do think less lethal weapons should be used, though we don't know the context and circumstances surrounding each death, so jumping to conclusions and saying they're just murderers gets us nowhere.

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At most, you should throw people in jail for making trouble, not shooting people to kill them just for protesting. To me, from what I saw the past few days, the Basij are nothing more than the Iranian taliban.

sounds like you've taken the CNN line - OK.

"If the elections were truly legitimate, which I'm still not totally convinced that they were (heck, the government basically admitted there was fraud in some areas of the country) hence the response from the government, Ayatullah Khamenei and the rest of the government shouldn't feel threatened enough to shoot and kill protesters."

The government did not admit to any such thing - as what you are implying, and they have not been killing anyone --- one shooting attributed to basij when their office was attacked by the rioters, again the rioters, blew up another basij office killing those inside, the killing of the woman - that the basij are accused of has not been pproved - unless you think of tweets as proof?

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IRI has prosecuted people affiliated with the government in the past...it's nothing new.

This is different. This is not treason or corruption; this is a more sensitive issue. This would mean that the government is losing control of a paramilitary group.

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sounds like you've taken the CNN line - OK.

Nah, CNN and basically every western news source are drooling for a revolution against the current Iranian government like hungry dogs drool over a bone. All you hear from them is "twitter, youtube, twitter, youtube" when the forget to take note that Iran is made up of more than just university kids using twitter and youtube, and infact a Mousavi win wouldn't diminish the IRI anymore than Ahmedinejad's "win" strengthens it but western news sources conveniently forget about that completely. Thankfully though, the IRI is going nowhere.

"If the elections were truly legitimate, which I'm still not totally convinced that they were (heck, the government basically admitted there was fraud in some areas of the country) hence the response from the government, Ayatullah Khamenei and the rest of the government shouldn't feel threatened enough to shoot and kill protesters."

The government did not admit to any such thing - as what you are implying, and they have not been killing anyone --- one shooting attributed to basij when their office was attacked by the rioters, again the rioters, blew up another basij office killing those inside, the killing of the woman - that the basij are accused of has not been pproved - unless you think of tweets as proof?

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=98711...ionid=351020101

Iran's Guardian Council has admitted that the number of votes collected in 50 cities surpass the number of those eligible to cast ballot in those areas.

What were you saying?

I may not be with western media, but I'm not believing every word of the Iranian government and trying to make excuses for them like a silly little sheep like people on this forum are doing.

I prefer to stay objective throughout this ordeal, and just because I support the Islamic Republic of Iran doesn't mean that I think the government is infallible.

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This is different. This is not treason or corruption; this is a more sensitive issue. This would mean that the government is losing control of a paramilitary group.

Yes but no one in their right mind would think a government can actually control every single individual of an 11 million+ paramilitary group...it's just not possible. There are standards for being a member, but after that, ultimately a person can go on a rampage for all he cares, it wouldn't be the government's fault...

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http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=98711...ionid=351020101

What were you saying?

I may not be with western media, but I'm not believing every word of the Iranian government and trying to make excuses for them like a silly little sheep like people on this forum are doing.

I prefer to stay objective throughout this ordeal, and just because I support the Islamic Republic of Iran doesn't mean that I think the government is infallible.

That issue of "excess" votes - etc. has been discussed on this forum, even before the Guardians Council came up with those figures --- its a non-starter, and by no means an admission of "fraud" - as you stated.

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the excess votes issue has been discussed so many times. it was noticed in the Caspian areas where travelers have gone and voted there. they said its a very normal thing in every election and some of those areas that had over 100% turnup favored Musawi so fraud could not be implied from that.

its true we have to be objective so every claim has to be backed with evidence. and we all know that the government is not infallible but we are afraid that the alternative is worse.

Edited by alimohamad40
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She was shot with military grade ammunition with increased lethality. For example, a person hit in the hand is likely to have it exit out the top of their head. Look at the vidio. She has a blood spot on her leg where a fragment of the bullet exited there. Also, there is very large blood spot on the ground even before she falls. I'm sure if she had been rolled over an observer would have found an exit hole the size of a pie plate in her back. I have seen what an M16 round can do. It is as if the round explodes in the body. All modern military assault rifles have this capability. A peasant's shot gun or hunting rifle could not do this even if the mussel had been pressed to her chest when fired. It was not an old G3 or M14 either. The increased lethality comes from the bullet being unstable and this makes it inaccurate at longer ranges. As soon at a modern assault rifle bullets hits human flesh, it tumbles and then comes apart, dumping all its kinetic energy into the targets body. So it was not a snipers weapon with a scope either. The murder was within 300 meters of his target.

Edited by Spriglief
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She was shot with military grade ammunition with increased lethality. For example, a person hit in the hand is likely to have it exit out the top of their head. Look at the vidio. She has a blood spot on her leg where a fragment of the bullet exited there. Also, there is very large blood spot on the ground even before she falls. I'm sure if she had been rolled over an observer would have found an exit hole the size of a pie plate in her back. I have seen what an M16 round can do. It is as if the round explodes in the body. All modern military assault rifles have this capability. A peasant's shot gun or hunting rifle could not do this even if the mussel had been pressed to her chest when fired. It was not an old G3 or M14 either. The increased lethality comes from the bullet being unstable and this makes it inaccurate at longer ranges. As soon at a modern assault rifle bullets hits human flesh, it tumbles and then comes apart, dumping all its kinetic energy into the targets body. So it was not a snipers weapon with a scope either. The murder was within 300 meters of his target.

You are kidding me right ?

"Military Grade Ammo" with "increased lethality" ?

It wasnt depleted uraniam, and as far as i know, thats about as lethal as u can get in a bullet...

What you TRYING to say is the bullet was HOLLOW TIP , which in turn explodes upon contact, rather then simply pierce...

Its not hard to get hollow tipped, as it has become the standard in bullets these days, and even if ur bullet was not hollow tipped, all you need is a knife and u engrave a + on its tip, so it becomes weaker... This was and has been done since the WW1

the large hole on the back would be from a hollow tip bullet, or a modified one, which a 3 year old could do.... I have been hunting many times, and used hollow tip bullets, they are as standard as red balloons...

So please it has nothing to do with the rifle, or military grade stuff, cos thats when depleted uraniam and all sorts of other aweful stuff kicks in... This was a standard bullet, dont blow something out to be bigger then what it really is...

Regards

TBM

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Wrong, the protests were peaceful until the Basij attacked them. THAT is their role by definition, to break up anti-governmental demonstrations. To claim otherwise indicates you don’t have a clue.

How's life in Tehran? You would know right? Since you have all the details. You obviously have zero clue about Iranian security. Baseej are there to protect government interests and are used as reserve in case of WAR. There are seperate entities that control riots. The first 2 days of the protests were peaceful, then started getting violent when Mousavi's hooligans began bashing windows and setting buses and cars on fire when they weren't getting their way. That's when RIOT police came into the scene, not the same as Basij. I guess assaulting military compounds and torching hundreds of buildings isn't grounds for force. Man what was I thinking!?

Not too many people trust the IRI right now, in fact most people wouldn’t believe them if they said water was wet.

Now you speak for the entire populace too?

So next time someone mentions Abu Ghraib, since it was perpetrated by 11 people out of 150,000, will you be as understanding of this point, or do you only cut slack for iranians?

Lol. Anti-IRI people are funny. You put us all in one bucket. Actually I don't blame the entire US military for what a few wackos did at all.

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Buggy Man, the blood spot exit wound on her leg means fragmentation of the bullet. The large amount of blood on the ground means expansion and tumbling of the bullet. You can’t get both with a simple field modification.

Field expedient methods are not encouraged nor practiced by most militaries. Any soldier who attempted to return such modified ammunition to his armory would be charged for the ammunition. To get bullet expansion, fragmentation, with tumbling, the round has to be made at the factory. In any case as Wikipedia points out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet

“At rifle velocities, a hollow point is not needed for reliable expansion and most rifle ammunition makes use of tapered jacket designs to achieve the mushrooming effect.”

You cannot get expansion, fragmentation, and tumbling without military factory built rounds of exact balance, mix of metal materials, with high velocities powders.

I considered explosive mercury tipped bullets, but that would have produced a different wound. I don’t know exactly what the world militaries are doing to defeat the current body armor, but I'm sure it is simpler and less expensive then using uranium rounds.

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and some news from outside of west:

http://www.shiatv.net/view_video.php?viewk...=&category=

do listen to the MKO confessions they caught!!

hopefully this will clear some doubts out of dumb americans but i still doubt it coz americans are completely retarded!!!

If the MKO killed her, why is Tehran so scared to stop this girl having a normal funeral, her family to mourn and place a black flag on the wall.

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As much as it saddens me to here that this woman was shot a killed in Iran, I have to be honest; this issue is way out of proportion, what about the Israeli attack on the UN school which killed more than 40 people? Why is this being seen as more critical by Western media, or why isn't the US government seen as evil when such acts are committed dozens of times buy our police, and soldiers raping Iraqi women and men? Why does this event get so much more coverage when Neda is no more, or less important than these people?

It is nothing but a ploy, and a disrespect for Nada, to show pictures of her corpse all over the world and to use it as a political tool. If this was an American killed they would not even allow the picture to be shown on American TV!!!!! Show some respect to her! Do not use her death for a political gain. Some Iranians do not seem to understand that much of the U.S government does not care for them, or how many of them die. They only want a regime who submissive to them, a half a million Iranians died from America's proxy war through Iraq, hundreds of thousands people died from U.N food shortages in Iraq. How come America does not pay for that? Did they prevent this? No they created it!

As I said above, it saddens me to see Neda like that, and the person who killed her should be punished for his action. However, we should not blame this on the government because who killed her was not a slave of the government, but of his own stupidity much like how cops here sometimes kill people without a probable reason, and I do not blame that on the government, but rouge elements within it, which can be found in every nation, not just Iran.

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Your point? We are both Americans, and we both know that our police have killed dozens of innocent people, and our soldiers also. Once you give a person a gun you cannot control what he does it with it, the government cannot stop a rouge basij from killing someone. Likewise our government cannot stop a cop from killing a innocent person which does happen.

As for your like its a report, not a verified account, but if true that would be wrong. I'll look into it.

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Buggy Man, the blood spot exit wound on her leg means fragmentation of the bullet. The large amount of blood on the ground means expansion and tumbling of the bullet. You can’t get both with a simple field modification.

Field expedient methods are not encouraged nor practiced by most militaries. Any soldier who attempted to return such modified ammunition to his armory would be charged for the ammunition. To get bullet expansion, fragmentation, with tumbling, the round has to be made at the factory. In any case as Wikipedia points out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet

“At rifle velocities, a hollow point is not needed for reliable expansion and most rifle ammunition makes use of tapered jacket designs to achieve the mushrooming effect.”

You cannot get expansion, fragmentation, and tumbling without military factory built rounds of exact balance, mix of metal materials, with high velocities powders.

I considered explosive mercury tipped bullets, but that would have produced a different wound. I don’t know exactly what the world militaries are doing to defeat the current body armor, but I'm sure it is simpler and less expensive then using uranium rounds.

You missed the point i was making.... I dont care what wikipedia says, i have seen first hand what hollow tip bullets do..... As for field modification i was simplying implying its easy to do so, as it has the same effect...

Im not doubting it was it was from a military RIFLE and im not doubting it was supplied VIA MILITARY but i am saying it was as simple as a hollow tip....

and as for body armour these days, depleted uraniam is simple the most affective method... Maybe not the cheapest, but since when is cost an issue ? They make their money back in no time

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(bismillah)

(salam)

What do you think about this article?

http://www.notmytribe.com/2009/who-killed-...tani-88127.html

Who killed Neda Soltani?

By Eric Verlo

NOT MY TRIBE - 6/22/2009

The video footage is shocking. An attractive young woman watching the demonstrations in Tehran is struck by a sniper’s bullet and dies before several video cameras. The tragedy is projected unto Facebook and Youtube, with advocates hoping it will galvanize (American) public support for the brave reform movement in Iran. News accounts blame “Basij snipers” on the rooftops. Other protesters have been killed in confrontations with Iranian riot police, without the benefit of video witnesses, much like two million Iraqis, Afghans, Pakistanis et al. Poor 27-year-old bystander Neda Soltani stood at the quite improbable convergence of bullet and camera –correction– cameras. I don’t have to suggest the scene was staged; whether or not the triggerman was an American is immaterial.

Think about just the improbability of your seeing this video. When was the last time the mainstream press has circulated a snuff film? The average person is embarrassed to watch a person die. It’s exploitive. Even when America was fixated on beheaded hostages, our television gatekeepers refused to broadcast the footage. Many horrific war killing moments have found their way unto Youtube, which antiwar activists could only hope would find wider distribution, if only to bring home the inhumanity of our soldiers’ deeds. It never happens.

The western press is running with this story because it demonizes the apparently naked inhumanity of Islam. Muslims stone women, hang gays, look: the [Edited Out]s shoot their own people arbitrarily. Curiously our media doesn’t make hay with the hapless victims of US snipers.

The Neda Soltani snuff footage hit internet shores prepackaged with a smiling mug, and a name that translated means “the voice.” Could a casting director have picked a better title character to represent Iran’s repressed? The western press is even poised to outdo the Muslims in indignant piety, already lauding Neda as a martyr, whom we are informed should launch a thousand Shiite funeral processions. Western pundits compare Neda to the first Shiite martyr, the grandson of Mohammed himself.

Of course, also showing excessive Islamic sensitivity, western reporters readily dismiss the vanishing of Neda’s body, to the Muslim tradition of hasty burials. For the record, in case you missed it, Neda dies onscreen from an apparent gunshot. We do not see the bullet strike, nor now can anyone habeas corpus.

If the scenario was acted entirely, given the success with which the girl’s face is being made into an icon, young Neda’s life is probably as utterly expendable now as already depicted. You think you’re mourning Neda now, imagine her fate if this is a hoax.

OR the gunman could just as well have been a US black-op hit-man who had his eye on the videographers approaching innocent Neda. The US military has long admitted that special forces are already operating in Iran. If the Iranian forces are shooting civilian protesters, what’s the harm of helping them out where there’s a camera ready?

When we’re not meant to see it, the soldiers shoot the cameramen too.

It could be the work of Moussavi henchmen, who are our henchmen.

The Green Revolution, or TwitterTM Revolution, rebranded a “Social Media Revolution,” is a fabrication of the US pro-democracy agents working to destabilize Iran. They are hard at work in Cuba, in Venezuela, in Bolivia, and everywhere regimes threaten US globalization by enslavement. Remember the Orange Revolution? Any movement that is color-coded is the work of organizers reading US how-to manuals or attending OTPOR training seminars.

Where are the international voices decrying election fraud in Iran? No one other than the US and its stooges is asserting that populist leader Ahmadinejad did not win by a landslide. Only Iran’s urban middle class has taken to the streets of Tehran. And to protest what? Their minority standing in Iran?

The reformists in Iran are protesting democracy, not the failure of democracy. They are protesting Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s hard line against irreligious western economic and colonial policies which traditionally benefit the secular urban elite. “Pro-Democracy” is neoliberal for pro-capitalist plunder.

Like the “dissidents” of Cuba, the Green greenback-seekers are marching on the CIA’s dime, and being meted the fate of foreign provocateurs. I have no doubt the majority are idealists and are well-intended, but like the Kurds who rose against Saddam Hussein, the US has set them up for slaughter, the sooner to motivate western support for military aggression against their evil regime.

Our media pundits point out that the protest banners are written in English, a sign that the Iranians are desperate to appeal to American viewers. They dismiss Iranian accusations of the demonstrations being US-backed as pure paranoia, and ignore the most simple explanation behind the English slogans, and the websites and networks amplifying the message to English speakers: these materials are being crafted by USAID advisers. This is a propaganda campaign aimed at Western ears, to call for regime change in Iran.

Neda’s Theme is tried and true: Jessica Lynch, Roxana Saberi, Euna Lee and Laura Ling, Neda Salehi Agha Soltan. Onward Christian Soldiers.

The American public won’t believe another fiction about Kuwaiti babies dumped from incubators, or of Belgian children impaled on the bayonets of the evil Hun. So Madison Avenue has upped the amperage. Today’s television armchair adjudicators have to see innocent young women snuffed on film before our eyes. Provided to us by a press too otherwise prurient to show us the mass of death we deal everyday.

The Iranians in the streets, and poor pretty Neda, are being sacrificed by heartless US strategists. I doubt even an errant Iranian bullet can match the American military for cruelty.

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