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In the Name of God بسم الله

Lucid Dreaming

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(bismillah)

Any lucid dreamers out here on shiachat? What have your experiences been like? Let's discuss.

For those that don't know what lucid dreaming is, it's when during a dream you become aware that you are dreaming... there are different levels of lucidity, ranging from just awareness to full control of the dream and the environment.

Some of the crazy things I've been able to do in dreams is walk through walls, put my hand through objects, stretch my fingers... and my favorite - flying!

Edited by skinee
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^ i was into that for a while when i was a kid after i read an article about it and how you can make yourself fly in your dreams. as it happened it was not very difficult to control dreams. i remember reading that you can tell that you are dreaming if you read something and then you look back and it is spelled differently, for some reason you brain can't get it right when you are asleep. anyway i lost interest but anyway happy flying

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For me, after i realize that i am dreaming in my dream, i usually wake up very soon afterward..lol.

There ways to bypass this and prolong the lucidity. First thing is to not get excited, and stay as calm as possible... it's usually the excitement that will get you. These are somethings you can try:

1. Spin... spin as fast as possible... this known to work for many people, however it didn't work for me.

2. Stare at any object... stare at your hands, the ground, whatever is around.. concentrate on it.. this helps you focus and remain in the dream - this has worked best for me.

The first time I became lucid was by accident, I never really knew such a thing was possible.. the first time was really amazing.. there's a great book on this by a scientist at Stanford, Stephen LaBerge.. it's very good.

It's all highly recommended to keep a dream journal to write down your dreams as soon as you wake up... it's supposed to help with dream recall. I never got around to doing that, just starting that now.

Im doing it right now.

:)

What do you experience when you sleep?

More then half my dreams I realize I'm dreaming.

Do you want to share your experiences or is that personal? What kindof things are you able to do in the dream.

^ i was into that for a while when i was a kid after i read an article about it and how you can make yourself fly in your dreams. as it happened it was not very difficult to control dreams. i remember reading that you can tell that you are dreaming if you read something and then you look back and it is spelled differently, for some reason you brain can't get it right when you are asleep. anyway i lost interest but anyway happy flying

this is part of reality checks within a dream... usually you can't read things properly.. numbers and words get messed up.

Also light switches don't work for some reason.. i guess there's no electricity in dreams :)

There's a good movie on this subject called the Waking Life.

Edited by skinee
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Do you want to share your experiences or is that personal? What kindof things are you able to do in the dream.

I fly sometimes. I sometimes move things without touching them. And one time, I was shooting energy (like dragon ball Z or street fighter but not exactly) from my hands.

this is part of reality checks within a dream... usually you can't read things properly.. numbers and words get messed up.

I've read in some dreams.

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it looked neatly written, but I couldn't make sense of a bit of it.

Maybe dreams have their own language.

That is really interesting. I have never tried it.

I have flown a lot in my dreams. The places I have lived have all been placed on islands in a big very intense blue sea. I swoop down on one and can see the most intricate detail from a child's height - the stores, the pavement, the trees and all very detailed (but no people) and then I fly off to another island in the sea- and again, another place I have lived, and it is full of detail at the height I was when I lived there as well (but no people).

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This might sound like a silly question but how do you distinguish between realising that you are dreaming and then taking control of your dream, and realising that you are dreaming and then continuing to think/imagine yourself in the dream?

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I've read in some dreams.

Yea me too, but usually most people can't.

This might sound like a silly question but how do you distinguish between realising that you are dreaming and then taking control of your dream, and realising that you are dreaming and then continuing to think/imagine yourself in the dream?

sometimes you can just have awareness that it is a dream, yet have no control over your dream self.. i.e. things continue as normal, but just with you being aware it's all a dream. Having control would mean you can choose where to direct your dream self in terms of looking and moving... people that have a lot of experience in this are able to imagine anything they want and have it... pretty much then they can do anything they imagine.. there are many other aspects of dreaming that are discussed in the book Bahadur Ali put up.

Time is also an issue.. i.e. being able to remain in sleep and not waking up. Advanced lucid dreamers can stay in a dream for anywhere upto an hour or more.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Dear all, I have just uploaded a complete PDF book on lucid dreaming. It's a complete guide to the process and focusses on the spiritual use of lucid dreaming. On a side note lucid dreaming is a technique used in tasawwfu and non Sufi erfan for spiritual exploration and zyarah among other things. I hope it will be of some use. You'll find the book attached to my mesage.

kind regards

Haha.. this is the book that I was referring to earlier, i just wasn't putting it up here due to copyright issues i.e. not having author's permission to use it publicly.

Do you have any articles or books by Muslims on using lucid dreams spiritually?

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This might sound like a silly question but how do you distinguish between realising that you are dreaming and then taking control of your dream, and realising that you are dreaming and then continuing to think/imagine yourself in the dream?

You know you are in the dream and that it is a non-real situation and that allows you to engage in non-real things. For instance, if you want to fly, a good technique is to start running and then jump (in the dream of course) with the intention of flying and usually you can get airborne in a while.

Another way to know you are dreaming is to see or do something impossible. For instance, if you are breathing underwater you know it is not real.

I think these things are commonly used with people who suffer from debilitating nightmares, in that once you realize it is not real, it is less scary, and you can try to adjust it

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U know... it is fairly easy to control what u do in a dream, but I don't think u can control what other people do. So... that might present a problem if they object!

Perhaps that relates to the spiritual nature of dreams, as some are connected to the broader spiritual world

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Skinee wrote:

Is it haraam to fulfill your desires in a lucid dream? ... u know what I'm talking about.

Not that I know of. Lucid dreaming may actually be a healthy alternative to masturbation. Just make sure you marry the lady in the dream world though. :!!!: I am actually being serious : make sure she is married to you because the dream world is an intermediary space and let's just say that other beings can enter it too...

Edited by Bahadur Ali
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Smiley wrote:

I don't think you should do immoral things in lucid dreams. It may not be a sin, but if you are intentionally thinking about it that may have negative mental and spiritual consequences. It probably also isn't a good idea to intentionally dream about marrying someone who you have no reason to think would marry you in real life. Also, if you are married it probably isn't a good idea to "marry" someone else in a dream. I am of the opinion that too much focus on fantasy can impair your view of reality. Not just in the mentioned issue, but in many things.

I forgot to add that lucid dreaming as an alternative to masturbation is only advisable to people who are single and have no possibility of getting married. It's a different issue when you are married. Sex in the dream world is far batter than in real life and may trigger an addiction that can be harmful to a married couple.Lucid dreams should primarily be used for spiritual zyarah. If anyone wants the book on lucid dreaming send me a pm.

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Is it haraam to fulfill your desires in a lucid dream? ... u know what I'm talking about.

gosh

If its haraam, i would certainly need to get lashed a thousand times (in the dream of course!!) :!!!:

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(bismillah) (salam)

I haven't had a scary dream in soo long. Even if I die in the dream, I wake up and I am like, aww I was sure I couldda kicked his butt in a rematch!

Like in this dream me and my family coming back to life and getting killed by gangsters. Then when I was on the ground pretending to be dead, one of them dropped a tennis ball on my head continuosly. I am like I don't fear him, so I got up and shot him and his whole gang. Then the F.B.I comes and kills me for killing the gangsters (because they didn't know they were gangsters). Then I wake up and don't care. In this other dream I was in the eye of a tornado and I was enjoying the ride till I woke up.. WHY can't I have scary dreams anymore! And When I do, why can't they scare me.

Serious question, why don't I get nightmares?

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(bismillah)

skinee wrote:

What are you talking about, it's impossible to marry the dream lady... it's a dream, the person isn't real! even if the person was real, there are many of them, and I don't even know who they are... the chances of getting married to random person from the dream world, who may or may not be real, are a bit ridiculous. When I can control myself, I run away from the situation.

1. You are assuming that the dream experience when it's lucid is not real. That is a first mistake. Lucid dream is a real as the world you live in when you are awake except it's far more complex and has its own rules.

2. As I said before when entering certain stages of lucid dreaming it's possible to enter other realms and this includes the 'alam ul mithâl. When our Imams (as) appear to us in dreams and give us instructions this is what happens.

3. The beings you encounter in lucid dreams have either an existence of their own or they are the creation of your mind and desires. That doesn't mean they're not real.

4. Because in lucid dreaming you are able to exert free will and decide what you want to do you are indeed able to marry, play football, cook tagliatelli etc there is no limit to what you can do.

The book has no mention of doing spiritual zyarah... the chapter talks about finding your "higher self" etc.. is this what you are referring to? spiritual zyarah of what exactly?

Of course it's not mentionned , it's mot a Shi'a book. When I speak of spiritual ziarah I mean accessing the 'alam ul mithâl via lucid dreaming and meeting nurwani form of the Imams. Amir-Moezzi has mentionned this practise in two articles.The articles are in French unfortunately.He refers to piety books where certains amals are mentionned to see Imam e Zaman (ajf) in dream. The process it uses (such as doing dua for three days and othe practises) condition one to achieve such lucid dreams and this is exactly what lucid dreaming is all about.

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1. You are assuming that the dream experience when it's lucid is not real. That is a first mistake. Lucid dream is a real as the world you live in when you are awake except it's far more complex and has its own rules.

2. As I said before when entering certain stages of lucid dreaming it's possible to enter other realms and this includes the 'alam ul mithâl. When our Imams (as) appear to us in dreams and give us instructions this is what happens.

3. The beings you encounter in lucid dreams have either an existence of their own or they are the creation of your mind and desires. That doesn't mean they're not real.

4. Because in lucid dreaming you are able to exert free will and decide what you want to do you are indeed able to marry, play football, cook tagliatelli etc there is no limit to what you can do.

hmm.. this gives me a lot to think about.. some very weird things have happened to me in dreams, this just scares me now! Actually, someone once told me the dream world is more real than this world... I didn't pay attention to them at the time.

Of course it's not mentionned , it's mot a Shi'a book. When I speak of spiritual ziarah I mean accessing the 'alam ul mithâl via lucid dreaming and meeting nurwani form of the Imams. Amir-Moezzi has mentionned this practise in two articles.The articles are in French unfortunately.He refers to piety books where certains amals are mentionned to see Imam e Zaman (ajf) in dream. The process it uses (such as doing dua for three days and othe practises) condition one to achieve such lucid dreams and this is exactly what lucid dreaming is all about.

Brother, it would be of extreme benefit if you can put-up the process used for these ziyarah or PM it to me. If you have the article online or soft copy, please send it, I'll have it translated.

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I've been having random lucid dreams lately, probably from the power bars i'm eating b4 bed :P. Flying around a lot is fun.

...

And one more recent one where I was in a dream, and something happened, and I woke up, and then I realized it was a dream, and then I woke up again and realized that was a dream too D.D. Fun stuff :!!!: .

Before you sleep, make the intention, or remember that you will do Zikr of Allah or the Imams once you become lucid e.g. saying Ya Allah, Ya Rab, or Ya Ali etc.

If you are able to do it, see what happens.

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^ If u r having an intention to meet the Imams in ur dreams or doing a'mal for that, u have to be careful that u do not deceive urself into imagining that u see them. It is easy for us to delude ourselves. So it is good to be careful as u know sometimes people can get kinda crazy if they get into this stuff the wrong way.

I just let my dreams speak to me, they usually have a lot to say, and I figure if God has a message He will send it in His own way.

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If I knew the art of lucid dreaming I would use it to go visit Karbala and other shrines :'(... Those who are into this, tell me if you're able to do that?

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I just let my dreams speak to me, they usually have a lot to say, and I figure if God has a message He will send it in His own way.

hmm.. i don't think there is an "if" in God having a message for us... it's always there waiting to be heard... we just need to tune in.

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I never knew this kind of dreaming had its own definition.

I know I can control my dreams when I take a nap in the afternoons.

Yep, there is a whole industry surrounding lucid dreaming. First time I became lucid was in the afternoon, but now it is mostly in the morning, and there is a scientific reason as to why you're prone to becoming lucid in the morning (REM cycles increase etc).

what can you control in your dreams, what experiences have you had?

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is it impossible for some people to becoming lucid dreamers?

I wanna know how to do it :) ( SOMEONE TEACH ME )

i know my bro once had a dream where he found it he was in a nightmare so he said "STOP" and everything stood still and he ended the dream..... but i don't think i have ever been able to do that kind of stuff. I once had x-men powers ( that stopped working :dry: ) but although i used them, i don't think i have ever had full control of my dreams. It seems like im a different being in that world, and that i cannot control anything.

also... isnt it awesome how in our dreams we see in a 3rd person view :D

random questions.........

in lucid dreaming can you guys see in 1st person? or is it in 3rd person too? and how much control of the dream do you have?

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is it impossible for some people to becoming lucid dreamers?

Nope, I don't think it's impossible... all that happens in a lucid dream is that you become aware of yourself... raising awareness is definitely possible for everyone. We are actually sleeping in this world in our waking life, spiritually asleep... but that's a different topic :)

I wanna know how to do it :) ( SOMEONE TEACH ME )

The book to read is "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming" by Stephen Laberge... best guide on how to learn, that's where I started after I had my first accidental lucid dream. I'm pretty sure there are copies of it floating around on the internet, do a search. Some quick tips:

1. You have to raise dream recall i.e. being able to remember dreams, usually recommended to start keeping a dream journal, write down everything you can remember as soon as you wake up.

2. Ask every hour of your waking life, Am I dreaming? You can connect these to reality checks. The idea is if this becomes habitual, you'll do it in a dream as well.

There is also a technology called binaural beats that can help induce different states... I've tried it, it worked for a while in helping increase dream recall. However I wouldn't recommend it too much, it can screw up your sleeping patterns, and side effects are unknown.

also... isnt it awesome how in our dreams we see in a 3rd person view :D

random questions.........

in lucid dreaming can you guys see in 1st person? or is it in 3rd person too? and how much control of the dream do you have?

Never gave this much thought, I'm pretty sure I've had regular as well as lucid dreams both in 1st person as well as 3rd person. I remember having a dream where I wasn't even present, sort of like watching a movie screen.

Personally I don't have too much control in my lucid dreams... when I exert a bit of effrot, I end up waking up... so generally I tend to let things happens as they happen. The few times where I have a lot of control is when I go to sleep super tired and become lucid... then I can walk through walls, fly etc... only once I was able to completely change the entire dream environment e.g. going from being in a room to entering a forest.

Edited by skinee
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This is very fascinating. I'm wondering, what do the Ahlulbayt (as) have to say about this? Like, was this ever mentioned by one of the Imams (as)??

I wish I was a lucid dreamer, first thing I would do is go back to Karbala'!

Hmm, is it possible for you to be a lucid dreamer, yet be unaware of it? Like at times I feel that I have control over my dreams, except I never really thought about it to the point where I would be able to conclude that I am a lucid dreamer. I never knew what "lucid dreamers" were. Heck, I didn't even know that such a thing existed!

Also, is it possible for you to contact a person through your dream? As in, for instance you have a friend that lives half the way around the world and you would like to contact them. Like, not only speak to them, you just want to be with them and basically enjoy things with them (movies, games, chats, etc). Is it possible for BOTH you and that person to contact one another through lucid dreaming? What I mean is that you would like to imagine your friend sitting with you in your dream, and you do so, however will that "friend" be an imagination or a memory of what you have left of that person, OR will it actually be your friend. Hmmm I guess a simpler way to put this is: can two lucid dreamers meet each other in a dream?

This may sound strange (NOTE: I've got a vast imagination), but I've imagined "lucid dreaming". Yet, I never knew it was possible. I thought that dreams were just confusing, hard to define, uncontrollable images/movie/whatever it is, that you experience once you have closed your eyes and fallen into a deep sleep.

Oh, and is there any connection between sleep walking and lucid dreamers??

I apologize for the long post and any confusion that I may have caused, what can I do, my curiosity took over me. :)

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(bismillah)

yafatimaalzahra wrote:

Hmm, is it possible for you to be a lucid dreamer, yet be unaware of it? Like at times I feel that I have control over my dreams, except I never really thought about it to the point where I would be able to conclude that I am a lucid dreamer. I never knew what "lucid dreamers" were. Heck, I didn't even know that such a thing existed!

The degree to which one is able to control one's dream differs from people to people. Some people are just aware they dream but don't undertake any action during the dream. It is just a question of training.

Also, is it possible for you to contact a person through your dream? As in, for instance you have a friend that lives half the way around the world and you would like to contact them. Like, not only speak to them, you just want to be with them and basically enjoy things with them (movies, games, chats, etc). Is it possible for BOTH you and that person to contact one another through lucid dreaming? What I mean is that you would like to imagine your friend sitting with you in your dream, and you do so, however will that "friend" be an imagination or a memory of what you have left of that person, OR will it actually be your friend. Hmmm I guess a simpler way to put this is: can two lucid dreamers meet each other in a dream?

It's possible. It has happened to me once that me and and two other persons had the exact same dream the same night about doing ziarah of Lady Zainab (as) in Damascus. The other persons who had the same dream were in the UK and the US. Physically we were on three different continents but in the dream world we were in the same place. I asked precised descriptions and we really dreamt the same dream, with the same streets, same colours of the doors of the houses etc... So it is possible to meet other people but I don't know how it's done intentionally. My guess is that both dreamers must intend to dream about the same place in order to meet.

Oh, and is there any connection between sleep walking and lucid dreamers??

Lucid dreaming denotes the ability to 1. be aware that you're dreaming 2. that this awareness enables you to control your dreams. Sleep walking can be explained by the fact that your body is actually dreaming with you.

Like, was this ever mentioned by one of the Imams as.gif??

The great Iranian scholar Husayn al Nuri al Tabrisi (d.1902) has written extensively about this subject in his Dar al-salam fi ma yata'aalqu bil ru'ya wal manam. He mentions different special amaals to achieve vision of the Ahlul Bayt (as) in the dream world. I need to add straight away that he was a staunch opponent of Sufism and wrote against Sufis in case some peopke wondered if this was some Sufi practise. He mentions the following hadith which can be found in the Kitab al ikhtisas of Shaykh Mufid and in Bihar ul Anwar- It's from Imam Musa (as):

The one who desires to ask something from God, or wants to see us(the Imams) and know his sitution let him have complete ablutions for three nights and pray in secret through us (falyaghtasil thalatha layalin yunaji bina) then he will see us (...) see Mufid 1958:90 (Ghaffari edition) and Bihar 7:336.

Sunnah practises such as dreaming on one's right side are highly recommended as they increase the possibility of lucid dreaming.

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