Where is God according to shi'as?

[Ruwayda Mustafah]

Salam,

Glorify the name of thy Guardian-Lord

Most High

[87:1]

They all fear their Lord, high

above them

, and they do all that they are commanded. [16:50]

Your Guardian Lord is

Allah

, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then

He settled Himself on the Throne

: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: and the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) are subservient by His Command. Verily, His are the Creation and the Command. Blessed be

Allah

, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds![ 7:54]

Where is Allah according to Shi'as?

[SpIzo]

(wasalam)

Imam Ali's (a) reply:

As for His saying '

Do ye feel secure that He Who is in Heaven will not cause you to be swallowed up by the earth when it shakes (as in an earthquake)?

(67:16)' and His saying '

And He is

Allah

in the heavens and on earth

(6:3)' and His saying '

The (Commands and Plans of the) Most Gracious is established on the Throne

(20:5)' and His saying '

(He is) the Evident and the Hidden

(57:3)' and '

And He is with you wheresoever ye may be

(57:4)' and His saying '

We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein

(50:16)' Such is

Allah

, increased is His Blessing and is the most High. He is purified and exalted that anything should happen to Him from whatever happens to the creations, and He is subtle, well-aware, the Most Glorious, and the Most High ...

(Verily the above verses mean) He is witness to all secret conversations, and He has authority over all affairs, and He is illuminator of everything, and planner of all the things. He, the High, the Great, is much exalted to than be on His throne.

http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=3332

A Jewish Rabbi came to Abu Bakr and said "you are the Prophet's successor (ie; the Khalifa of this community)". Abu Bakr said "yes".

The Rabbi said: "we find in the Torah that the su(Kh) of prophemost knowledge of the communities, therefore tell me about God, the Exalted.

Where is He?

In heaven or on earth"? Abu Bakr said "in heaven, on the Throne".

The Rabbi said "then I should consider that the earth is without Him and I should consider according to this statement that He is in one place only".

"That is the doctrine of atheists" said Abu Bakr. "Go away from me or I will have you killed".

The Rabbi went away amazed at Abu Bakr ignorance and mocking Islam for having a leader who does not know much about God's whereabouts! Imam Ali (a.s.) (who was not present when this discussion took place) met the Jew as he was leaving town. He called him and said "

I know what you have asked about and did not get an answer for.

In Islam we say that God, the Mighty and High, is the whereness of whereness, there is no where for Him (ie; God is everywhere). He avoids any place containing Him while He is in every place, without contact with anything and without being next to anything. He encompasses knowledge of what is there and nothing of it is outside His provenance.

I am telling you what is written in your books which attests to the truth of what I have told you. If you know it, do you believe in it"?

"Yes" said the Jew. Then Imam Ali asked him: "

Didn't you find in one of your books that Moses, the son of Imran, peace be on him, was sitting down one day when an angel came to him from the East. Moses asked him 'From where have you come' and the angel said 'From God, the Mighty and High'. Then another angel came to him from the West. Moses asked him 'from where have you come' and the angel said 'from God the Mighty and High'. Then again a third angel came to him and said 'I have come to you from the Seventh Heaven, from being with God the Mighty and High'. Then a fourth angel came to him and said 'I have come from the Seventh Firmament (the vault of Heaven-ie; the 7th Heaven), from being with God, the Mighty and High'. At that time Moses (as) said: "praise be to God, no place is without Him and He is not nearer to one place than another

".

The Rabbi replied: "I testify that this is the truth and that you have more right to (occupy) the place of your Prophet than the one who currently has control over it".

http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/b...imam_ali/07.htm

Imam Ridha (a) answers this question of an atheist:

Q1: "May

Allah

have mercy on, let me know how is He (

Allah

) and where is He?"

Ans. 1: "

Surely the opinion you have adopted is mistaken. He (

Allah

) determined the 'where' and he was when there was no where; He fashioned the 'how' and He was when there was no 'how'. So He is not known through 'howness' or 'whereness' or through any form of sense perception; nor can He be gauged by anything

."

http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/l.../10.htm#_T46715

In debate with Abu Qurra:

Q8: "Where is

Allah

?"

Ans. 8: "

The 'where' is a place. This is the question of one who is present about one who is absent. As for

Allah

, the Most High, is not absent; nor was there an eternal thing before Him. He is everywhere. He is Director, Creator, Keeper, the Holder of the heavens and the earth.

"

http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/l.../10.htm#_T46711

In another debate, the same question was posed and the Imam (a) replied, "Tell me where He is not, and I will tell you where He is."

[Ruwayda Mustafah]

Thank you for the reply. Where are these incidents recorded?

[AbuHope]

Your Guardian Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He settled Himself on the Throne: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: and the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) are subservient by His Command. Verily, His are the Creation and the Command. Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds![ 7:54]

So where is His Throne? Above the heavens? Or..

He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!" Surah Hud (11) Verse 7

Nanda?

[lotfilms]

Salam,

Glorify the name of thy Guardian-Lord

Most High

[87:1]

They all fear their Lord, high

above them

, and they do all that they are commanded. [16:50]

Your Guardian Lord is

Allah

, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then

He settled Himself on the Throne

: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: and the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) are subservient by His Command. Verily, His are the Creation and the Command. Blessed be

Allah

, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds![ 7:54]

Where is Allah according to Shi'as?

(bismillah)

(salam)

All of those verses are there to show Almighty God being above us in terms of His rank, not necessarily in terms of him being X miles above us. He is the Master and we are the servant. He is the Rich and we are the poor. He is the Powerful and we are the weak.

And splzo's answer should be sufficient for your question inshallah

wa salam

[Ruwayda Mustafah]

So where is His Throne? Above the heavens? Or..

He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!" Surah Hud (11) Verse 7

Nanda?

Thank you for your sincere Question. I'm not qualified to answer any questions. But this will be a sufficient response:

Allaah, the Exalted, has described Himself in His Book, and by the tongue of His Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam as Sublime, Supreme, and Lofty. The Qur'aan is full of proofs relevant to the Loftiness of Allaah.

Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jama'ah believe in and confirm all of the attributes of Allaah without distorting their meaning, and that Allaah is above His seven heavens, above His 'Arsh, and separated from His creatures, and His creatures are separated from Him.

This discourse will provide the Scriptural proofs of the Loftiness of Allaah is an indivisible part of the inherent faculty of knowing Allaah with which Allaah has created mankind. Although the aqeedah of Loftiness of Allaah is part of man's innate knowledge and cannot be subjected to hypothetical of philosophical argumentation, there are some deviated sects who follow their whims and deny this intuitive and self-evident fact. For this reason, they have twisted Scriptural proofs and distorted them, and manipulated the texts to conform with their deviant argument.

All of the divine attributes are intrinsically related to the attribute of divine Loftiness. Therefore, accepting or rejecting them must be based on accepting or rejecting the Loftiness of Allaah. Whoever believes that Allaah is above His 'Arsh [The Throne of Allaah] and separated from His creatures, also believes in the rest of the attributes of Allaah, and believes as well that the heaves and the earth submit to His will, and that He is the Great Rubb of the worlds. Allaah does whatever He wills and rules according to His Own wishes. Glory be to Him.

Denial of the divine Loftiness is one of the basic doctrinal heresy promoted by the Jahmites [Jahmites are the followers of Jahm bin Safan (d. 128-745), a radical heretic. Among other things, they deny that Allaah, the Exalted, is above His Arsh, and they allege that He is everywhere] and their off-shoots of today in order to confuse the Muslims' minds. Denying this divine attribute also leads by necessity to the denial of the attribute of the istiwaa of Allaah above His Arsh. There is no doubt that the denial of the attributes of Allaah clashes with the clear Qur'aanic verses in which the unique essential attributes and beautiful names of Allaah confirmed. These attributes must be affirmed as identical with Allaah.

The essential divine attributes of Allaah constitute an integral part of His essence and are not superadded to it. They are accepted literally by Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jama'h without questioning the 'how' of these attributes. To deny them is clear unbelief and heresy. It is for this reason this discourse has been prepared to deal with the creed of Loftiness of Allaah, or the question, 'Where is Allaah?' with the Scriptural evidences from the Qur'aan and the authentic prophetic traditions, as well as the traditions of those early Muslims, the pious predecessors

.

You can continue reading about this topic here: http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/aqeedah/0039.htm so you can learn about the Ahlel Sunnah Wal Jama'a view.

[Ruwayda Mustafah]

And splzo's answer should be sufficient for your question inshallah

wa salam

I don't understand how Allah [swt] is the whereness of whereness? It does not make sense to me and I don't see how this view corresponds to the Qur'an.

[AbuHope]

Thank you for your sincere Question. I'm not qualified to answer any questions. But this will be a sufficient response:

I'm sorry but that answer doesn't answer my question :) Where is the 'Arsh?

I don't understand how Allah [swt] is the whereness of whereness? It does not make sense to me and I don't see how this view corresponds to the Qur'an.

When the Prophet (pbuh) was about to pass away, he told his followers to hold on to two things, The Quran and his Ahlul Bayt. Imam Ali's (as) sayings, to us, are completely corresponding with the Quran, he (as) and his family (as) and offspring (as) are the only ones who can teach the meaning of the Quran. It's the cornerstone of the school of Ahlul Bayt.

As to ''whereness of the whereness'' it means that Allah's existence and essence is outside of our understanding/imagination. We can not comprehend Him since he is outside of our existence and can not be put in brackets within the realm of our five senses. Therefor according to us, there is no ''where'' to Allah, the question in itself is wrong. He is not confined to a place, He just is. You can not ask where the existent Creator of existence is, if you already believe that that very existent Creator created all existence that we know/live/dream..

WS

[poetik]

(bismillah)

Salam sister Ruwayda. The problem with Allah being over his Throne is the fact that Allah created this throne. As we all know Allah existed when there was no place, or no creation for that matter; and therefore Allah existed with no place. After creation, why do we say that Allah now has a place? Was He affected by his creation? Just some questions to ponder on.

Wa'salam

[Ruwayda Mustafah]

I'm sorry but that answer doesn't answer my question :) Where is the 'Arsh?

I don't know. But this Question does not relate to Where Allah is.

When the Prophet (pbuh) was about to pass away, he told his followers to hold on to two things, The Quran and his Ahlul Bayt. Imam Ali's (as) sayings, to us, are completely corresponding with the Quran, he (as) and his family (as) and offspring (as) are the only ones who can teach the meaning of the Quran. It's the cornerstone of the school of Ahlul Bayt.

As to ''whereness of the whereness'' it means that Allah's existence and essence is outside of our understanding/imagination. We can not comprehend Him since he is outside of our existence and can not be put in brackets within the realm of our five senses. Therefor according to us, there is no ''where'' to Allah, the question in itself is wrong. He is not confined to a place, He just is. You can not ask where the existent Creator of existence is, if you already believe that that very existent Creator created all existence that we know/live/dream..

WS

You can claim that it fully corresponds to the Qur'an, But I ask you, Where does Allah [swt] claim that he is the whereness of whereness? Because it makes no logical sense to say something is the whereness of whereness. You can claim that we are finite beings incapable of understanding an infinite being. But the Question is still valid.

And some claim that saying there is "no where" to Allah in itself means there is somewhere which is "no where".[?]

[Ruwayda Mustafah]

(bismillah)

Salam sister Ruwayda. The problem with Allah being over his Throne is the fact that Allah created this throne. As we all know Allah existed when there was no place, or no creation for that matter; and therefore Allah existed with no place. After creation, why do we say that Allah now has a place? Was He affected by his creation? Just some questions to ponder on.

Wa'salam

Wa 'alaikum assalam,

What is the problem with Allah being above his throne if he created his throne? I'm not questioning your "logic" here but rather from where do you derive such Knowledge the Qur'an or your Imams or purely from logic?

[SpIzo]

Seems like you asked to argue.

Peace.

[Ruwayda Mustafah]

Ok, Thanks for the responses.

[poetik]

Wa 'alaikum assalam,

What is the problem with Allah being above his throne if he created his throne? I'm not questioning your "logic" here but rather from where do you derive such Knowledge the Qur'an or your Imams or purely from logic?

Firstly,

In Sahih Al-Bukhari, it is related that:

Ñæì ÇáÈÎÇÑìõø æÇáÈíåÞìõø æÇÈäõ ÇáÌÇÑæÏ Ãä ÑÓæáó Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞÇá:

"ßÇä Çááå æáã íóßõäú ÔóìÁñ ÛóíúÑõåõ".

Meaning, Allah existed eternally and nothing else existed.

Secondly,

Abu Mansur Al-Baghdadiyy related in his book, Al-Furqu Baynal-Furaq, that Imam Ali (as) said:

"ßÇä Çááå æáÇ ãßÇä¡ æåæ ÇáÂä Úáì ãÇ Úáíå ßÇä".

Meaning, "Allah existed and there was no place, and He is now as He was," (i.e. with no place, since originally He had NO place)

Thirdly,

Also in Abu Mansur Al-Baghdadiyy's book, it is related that Imam Ali (as) also stated:

äóÞóáó ÇáÅãÇãõ ÃÈæ ãóäúÕæÑö ÇáÈÛÏÇÏìõø Ãäóø ÇáÅãÇã Úáìø Èäó ÃÈì ØÇáÈ ÑÖì Çááå Úäå ÞÇá: "Åäóø Çááå ÊóÚóÇáì ÎóáóÞó ÇáÚóÑúÔó ÅÙúåóÇÑðÇ áöÞõÏúÑóÊöåö æóáã íóÊóøÎöÐõåõ ãóßÇäðÇ áöÐóÇÊöåö"

Meaning, "Allah created the 'Arsh as an indication of His power and did not take it as a place for Himself."

These are all sources from Ahl'ul Sunnah. I don't have a source for this one, but it is said that someone asked Imam Ali (as), where is Allah? Imam Ali (as) replied with, "Tell me where He is not, and I will tell you where He is." Again, ponder. Is it fitting for us to worship and god that is sitting on a throne that He created? If He was without a place to begin with, why does He have a place now? If you agree that He had no place to begin with, and He now has a place, does this not mean change? Does Allah change? If you believe He always had a place, then are you implying this 'place' is eternal as well?

Wa'Salam

[alimohamad40]

assalamu alaikum

This topic was mentioned by Bilal Philips about Harun Yahya and sufies understanding of gods tawheed and shirk,

I made a 3 parts Video response to that on you tube you can watch the original video as well

part 1

part 2

part 3

original video by billal philips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubFyJI1XlAU

ws

[lion]

aslamo alakom,

please note that my statements are to marvel at the creation of our lord swt and not question the Almighty's abilities in any way or form.we ask him for guidance.

according to my understanding of the quran and science , Allah swt is outside of matter space time , which in order to have been created ,as a finite creation it would need some power that is not restricted by general relativity and is outside of such. a power which has the ability to be without matter space time and can be omnipresent within such system. Furthermore I believe God swt is beyond this universe and the quran proves this fact by saying :

“He manages (each and every) affair from the heaven to the earth; then, it (affair) goes up to Him in a Day, the length of which is a thousand years such as you count.”

or in other words, the affair goes to him in the speed of light, as we have mathematically derived such.

[Awaiting_for_the12th]

if Allah (swt) is above his throne then:

[50:16] We created the human, and we know what he whispers to himself. We are closer to him than his jugular vein.

time to ponder sister

[lion]

the verse is clearly figurative speech, That God swt is telling us: We who created you , know very well what thoughts you harbor.

[The Canuck]

(salam)

I believe the shia Islamic view on "where is God" , is that the concept of "where" is God cannot be applied, because with all our perceptions, imaginations, and our point of references, we cannot comprehend all of what is Allah (swt) let alone reach a 'location' for him. Allah (swt) has no limits, and he is not contained in space, he has no conditions, so you cannot properly say that He is in a 'place' or is 'located' some where. Allah (swt) is far beyond these concepts, and we cannot comprehend him with our such concepts.

ws

[rzairul]

"Where" is a question to ask location, i.e. a point in space

It means that the object which location is asked will be bound by the law in that space

God is unlimited.

It means that the question is wrong because it tries to limit God.

[lion]

^ not precisely so,

'where' doesnt have to be a relative term. Something can be at a place without time matter space, ie God swt. in this case the where precisely unlimits God swt because as i have explained before , it wouldnt limit God swt to a refrence point.

[chat_buddy]

Accordingly to the Ahlul Bayt (peace be on them all), "throne on water" allegorically refers to "sitting on knowledge". Water is the metaphor for knowledge, wherever you meet such a verse or narration.

Of course, our semantic feel predisposes us to thinking that Allah SWT is "sitting on a place". But this is not the case.

TQ

[guest020117]

Salam,

Glorify the name of thy Guardian-Lord

Most High

[87:1]

They all fear their Lord, high

above them

, and they do all that they are commanded. [16:50]

Your Guardian Lord is

Allah

, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then

He settled Himself on the Throne

: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: and the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) are subservient by His Command. Verily, His are the Creation and the Command. Blessed be

Allah

, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds![ 7:54]

Where is Allah according to Shi'as?

there is no where for Him (ie God is everywhere)

[CPT]

(bismillah)

Salam sister Ruwayda. The problem with Allah being over his Throne is the fact that Allah created this throne. As we all know Allah existed when there was no place, or no creation for that matter; and therefore Allah existed with no place. After creation, why do we say that Allah now has a place? Was He affected by his creation? Just some questions to ponder on.

Wa'salam

Who says that the 'arsh is a created thing? Can it not be understood metaphorically? A throne is a symbol of power: can we not understand God's 'sitting' on the throne as His establishing His Power over all things?

Also, I have problems with your assertion that there is a 'before creation' and 'after creation'. Does that not bring God into time? If we say that there was no creation and *then* God created, you are making God time-bound. Do you not see the inherent problems in this assertion?

[to2rabs]

I will first of all wish to ask the sister who posed this interesting question, to please not leave at this point, because it looks like she walked away without becoming convinced with the answers.

As for the question what i can say is that looking at the verses quoted by the person who asked the question and those who replied so far, in summary are saying: God is in Heaven above, God is on the Arsh, God is on the throne, God is on earth, God is closer to us than our jugular vein/carotid artery, and in addition to the ff verse: "when my servants ask you of Me, tell them I am close...." is enough for one to conclude that GOD IS EVERYWHERE!

Scientifically, unless we are saying that God is a matter, then He can occupy space and eventually has a weight(which He can not be describe with) and has to be in one of the three or four states of matter (subhanALLAH).

As i always said the five senses we have and the brain that controls them all have limitations, which if subjected beyond, the result is a lie; as Imam Ali AS said "he who free his heart and exerts his thinking in order to know how Thou established Thy throne, how Thou created Thy creatures, how Thou suspended the air in Thy skies and how Thou spread Thy earth on the waves of water, his eyes would return tired, his intelligence defeated, his ears eager and his thinking awander".

So the best is to resort to the conclusion above that God is everywhere.

GLORY BE TO YOUR LORD, THE LORD OF HONOR, ABOVE WHAT THEY DESCRIBE, AND PEACE BE ON THE APOSTLES, AND ALL PRAISE IS DUE TO Allah, THE LORD OF THE WORLDS - Quran 37:180-182.

Allah knows best.

ma'assalam

[Ruwayda Mustafah]

God is not everywhere. It does not befit his majesty and glory to be everywhere. There is a difference between being everywhere in essence and in knowledge. And while I appriciate your response and concern the only reason I stopped commenting and responding to this thread is because I’m clear on the shi`i view and I reject it.

Thank you.

[eThErEaL]

I don't understand how Allah [swt] is the whereness of whereness? It does not make sense to me and I don't see how this view corresponds to the Qur'an.

Dont worry if you dont understand that.

No Muslim (shia or sunni) denies that God is seated on His throne. The issue is: what you understand from that?

Do understand it in a way that is opposed to this verse, "and nothing is like Him" (Koran,Ikhlas)? If you think they are opposed to each other and utterly irreconcilable then you are not understanding the verses properly. But If you dont find them to be opposed to each other, and in stead find them to complement each other, then you are understanding the verses properly.

[culturei]

I will first of all wish to ask the sister who posed this interesting question, to please not leave at this point, because it looks like she walked away without becoming convinced with the answers.

As for the question what i can say is that looking at the verses quoted by the person who asked the question and those who replied so far, in summary are saying: God is in Heaven above, God is on the Arsh, God is on the throne, God is on earth, God is closer to us than our jugular vein/carotid artery, and in addition to the ff verse: "when my servants ask you of Me, tell them I am close...." is enough for one to conclude that GOD IS EVERYWHERE!

Scientifically, unless we are saying that God is a matter, then He can occupy space and eventually has a weight(which He can not be describe with) and has to be in one of the three or four states of matter (subhanALLAH).

As i always said the five senses we have and the brain that controls them all have limitations, which if subjected beyond, the result is a lie; as Imam Ali AS said "he who free his heart and exerts his thinking in order to know how Thou established Thy throne, how Thou created Thy creatures, how Thou suspended the air in Thy skies and how Thou spread Thy earth on the waves of water, his eyes would return tired, his intelligence defeated, his ears eager and his thinking awander".

So the best is to resort to the conclusion above that God is everywhere.

GLORY BE TO YOUR LORD, THE LORD OF HONOR, ABOVE WHAT THEY DESCRIBE, AND PEACE BE ON THE APOSTLES, AND ALL PRAISE IS DUE TO Allah, THE LORD OF THE WORLDS - Quran 37:180-182.

Allah knows best.

ma'assalam

the question is wrong... GOD is outof space-time... he can't be in a place, nor in (everywhere)... nor nowhere... GOD can;t be described to places

hey is that true..

we know how god created creatures.. not fully but we know a hell lot of things...(evolution)... we know how god suspended air and sky... laws of physcis.. and know how god spread earth on water.. (tectonic plates... well it is not reall earth on water as described)..

[AbuHope]

^

You reject the truth of space not being attributed to God? I thought this was true for all muslims.

[icewizard]

ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã æ ÑÍãÉ Çááå æ ÈÑßÇÊå - Peace be upon you, as well as Allah's pity and blessings

Çááøåã Õáø Úáì ãÍãøÏ æ Âáå ÇáØøíøÈíä ÇáØÇåÑíä - May Allah's blessing be upon Mu7ammad and his Generous and Pure Family

ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑøÍãä ÇáÑøÍíã - In the name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful

---

God is not everywhere. It does not befit his majesty and glory to be everywhere. There is a difference between being everywhere in essence and in knowledge. And while I appriciate your response and concern the only reason I stopped commenting and responding to this thread is because I’m clear on the shi`i view and I reject it.

Thank you.

salâm Sister Ruwayda,

And what is your view exactly?

What do you mean exactly by "God is not everywhere"? Do you restrict him in a place? I'm sorry if i don't understand your view and that's why i ask for clear explanation please.

In my own opinion, it's impossible to us shia muslims to "imagine" where or when is god because he is the Creator, and the "where" or "when" answers are his creations.

---

æ Úáíßã ÇáÓáÇã æ ÑÍãÉ Çááå æ ÈÑßÇÊå - And upon you be peace, as well as Allah's pity and his blessings

[Ruwayda Mustafah]

ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã æ ÑÍãÉ Çááå æ ÈÑßÇÊå - Peace be upon you, as well as Allah's pity and blessings

Çááøåã Õáø Úáì ãÍãøÏ æ Âáå ÇáØøíøÈíä ÇáØÇåÑíä - May Allah's blessing be upon Mu7ammad and his Generous and Pure Family

ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑøÍãä ÇáÑøÍíã - In the name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful

---

salâm Sister Ruwayda,

And what is your view exactly?

What do you mean exactly by "God is not everywhere"? Do you restrict him in a place? I'm sorry if i don't understand your view and that's why i ask for clear explanation please.

In my own opinion, it's impossible to us shia muslims to "imagine" where or when is god because he is the Creator, and the "where" or "when" answers are his creations.

---

æ Úáíßã ÇáÓáÇã æ ÑÍãÉ Çááå æ ÈÑßÇÊå - And upon you be peace, as well as Allah's pity and his blessings

wa `alaikum salam,

I am not making any claims or restrictions, I asked for evidence from the Qur`an and Sunnah in relation to God being the whereness of whereness since the statement does not make sense. If I were to ask you what does the whereness of whereness means you would not be able to explain it. And your incapability to explain it is not evidence for having a irrefutable position about God. It just means you are making statements about God and attributing things to him without evidence.

My position is simply to take things as they are without imposing secondary views when it comes to Allah (swt). Allah (swt) is not in e.g. toilet therefore he is not everywhere in essence, this is not a restriction on Allah (swt).

[culturei]

^

You reject the truth of space not being attributed to God? I thought this was true for all muslims.

not true... not all muslims say that.. only Sunnis..

GOD created Space, he exist before space and time,... and they are but his creatures, so he can't be linked to them or be in them

[JimJam]

Who says that the 'arsh is a created thing? Can it not be understood metaphorically? A throne is a symbol of power: can we not understand God's 'sitting' on the throne as His establishing His Power over all things?

According to the Ayal ul Kursi(Verse of the Throne)

"God - There is nothing worthy of worship except Him. the Ever Living, The Eternal One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Throne extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. 2:255"

According to this it seems like the Arsh appears to a metaphor for the absolute authority and dominion of Allah

[icewizard]

ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã æ ÑÍãÉ Çááå æ ÈÑßÇÊå - Peace be upon you, as well as Allah's pity and blessings

Çááøåã Õáø Úáì ãÍãøÏ æ Âáå ÇáØøíøÈíä ÇáØÇåÑíä - May Allah's blessing be upon Mu7ammad and his Generous and Pure Family

ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑøÍãä ÇáÑøÍíã - In the name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful

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wa `alaikum salam,

I am not making any claims or restrictions, I asked for evidence from the Qur`an and Sunnah in relation to God being the whereness of whereness since the statement does not make sense. If I were to ask you what does the whereness of whereness means you would not be able to explain it. And your incapability to explain it is not evidence for having a irrefutable position about God. It just means you are making statements about God and attributing things to him without evidence.

My position is simply to take things as they are without imposing secondary views when it comes to Allah (swt). Allah (swt) is not in e.g. toilet therefore he is not everywhere in essence, this is not a restriction on Allah (swt).

salâm Sister Ruwaydah,

by saying "Allah (swt) is not in e.g. toilet", you want to pay respect to Allah -swt- and i understand that. but in the same time you are "limiting" Allah -swt- as he is not limited (that's the way we believe, and i hope that you believe too!). is the door, and the walls of the restroom a "boundary" to Allah -swt-? i ask forgiveness to Allah -swt- for even writing down such theory!

Thank you in advance for explaining me how you can limit Allah -swt-.

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æ Úáíßã ÇáÓáÇã æ ÑÍãÉ Çááå æ ÈÑßÇÊå - And upon you be peace, as well as Allah's pity and his blessings