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Muslim786

Is Taqleed Wajib?

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name='kadhim' date='25 September 2009 - 10:52 AM' timestamp='1253890329' post='1965308']

The verse was revealed in the context of war, but generally it is understood as a principle of general utility, that some should devote themselves fully to study.

please define what you mean by 'fully to study.' here where i reside, one is considered a full time student by taking 12 credit hours a week, i think. would only 12 hrs a week studying be enough to be considered a full time scholar? please keep in mind there is a hadith that says something like; there was a man who was unmatched in his amount of worship and when Prophet Isa asked 'who pays for his everyday needs and such' the other replied that his brother pays for all his expenses. and Prophet Isa says his brother is more of a worshipper than the man who always prays.
As for the rest of what you have written here, there seems to be a mistaken conception here. I'm not sure what what the issue is, exactly, because it's a relatively straightforward point. Of course everyone has to do what they can to learn. The difference is that some, because of a combination of natural ability and a feeling of a need to answer a calling make scholarship their vocation. The presence of fulltime scholars does not negate the need for individual lay believers to study and learn. Conversely the fact that lay believers are studying likewise does not negate the need for those who devote themselves more deeply, and the importance of the lay believers referring to those full time scholars for deeper guidance. It's not a one or the other proposition.
the problem that one may see with this is that if the laymen doesn't understand what he is doing, this guidance is as good as null. isn't it said that Imam Ali says something like; islam is submission and submission is certainty?

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I think what taqleed has become nowadays is a genius political method to accumulate bare khums money

It's a business ting right now it's not even about Islam

Look at how many different centres there are and all preach different things.....

Edited by inshaAllah

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please define what you mean by 'fully to study.' here where i reside, one is considered a full time student by taking 12 credit hours a week, i think. would only 12 hrs a week studying be enough to be considered a full time scholar? please keep in mind there is a hadith that says something like; there was a man who was unmatched in his amount of worship and when Prophet Isa asked 'who pays for his everyday needs and such' the other replied that his brother pays for all his expenses. and Prophet Isa says his brother is more of a worshipper than the man who always prays.

the problem that one may see with this is that if the laymen doesn't understand what he is doing, this guidance is as good as null. isn't it said that Imam Ali says something like; islam is submission and submission is certainty?

Full time. As in full time job. As in, that's your day job. That's what you do. Who on earth told you a full time student studies only 12 hours a week. They go to class 12-15 hours a week. Successful students will study and read about 3 hours for each hour of class, for a total of 48-60 hours a week of study.

That's the life of a person fully devoted to scholarship. His or her job is to read, think, write, publish, teach students, answer questions, and do any administrative work involved. An immersion in the seeking of knowledge on the subject.

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Full time. As in full time job. As in, that's your day job. That's what you do. Who on earth told you a full time student studies only 12 hours a week. They go to class 12-15 hours a week. Successful students will study and read about 3 hours for each hour of class, for a total of 48-60 hours a week of study.

That's the life of a person fully devoted to scholarship. His or her job is to read, think, write, publish, teach students, answer questions, and do any administrative work involved. An immersion in the seeking of knowledge on the subject.

Who says a full time student cannot study just 12 hrs? successful students? that is as vague as your 'fully to study' comment. as for the tafsir of the said verse, i think my reply fits more in tune with the tafsir from al-islam.org/quran. i think there is a reason why the verse was in context of war and to admonish and teach the jihadis upon their return. if the jihadis don't understand the admonishing, does it legitimize having the scholars stay behind or is it rendered null and void?

Edited by gogiison2

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Who says a full time student cannot study just 12 hrs? successful students? that is as vague as your 'fully to study' comment. as for the tafsir of the said verse, i think my reply fits more in tune with the tafsir from al-islam.org/quran. i think there is a reason why the verse was in context of war and to admonish and teach the jihadis upon their return. if the jihadis don't understand the admonishing, does it legitimize having the scholars stay behind or is it rendered null and void?

Of for goodness' sake.

I've had about enough of this. I've been quite clear. I'm not going to continue to spend my limited time when the person on the other end is playing games and being argumentative for the sake of it. It's rude and annoying.

The final lines of both of your last posts don't even make any sense.

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Of for goodness' sake.

I've had about enough of this. I've been quite clear. I'm not going to continue to spend my limited time when the person on the other end is playing games and being argumentative for the sake of it. It's rude and annoying.

The final lines of both of your last posts don't even make any sense.

playing games? come on now..I've noticed from past discussions with you that you always find your way to pull that 'makes no sense' card. what don't you understand? iA i can elaborate for you.

Edited by gogiison2

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playing games? come on now..I've noticed from past discussions with you that you always find your way to pull that 'makes no sense' card. what don't you understand? iA i can elaborate for you.

I notice from a lot of threads that you like to troll. I'm not going to continue to feed this behavior. Good day.

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I notice from a lot of threads that you like to troll. I'm not going to continue to feed this behavior. Good day.

well, if you cannot answer with Quran or ahadith, i'd advise to keep any subjective reasonings to yourself. this is why i asked Bint this question but you wanted to run it into a dead end. So please, next time you reply to me, try to have evidence at hand before you speak or take some more time to study more about islam as opposed to trying to create fitna and taking the easy way out and saying you don't understand anything. this is why we must think and learn together because some of us will never want to understand or make sense of it.

Edited by gogiison2

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well, if you cannot answer with Quran or ahadith, i'd advise to keep any subjective reasonings to yourself. this is why i asked Bint this question but you wanted to run it into a dead end. So please, next time you reply to me, try to have evidence at hand before you speak or take some more time to study more about islam as opposed to trying to create fitna and taking the easy way out and saying you don't understand anything. this is why we must think and learn together because some of us will never want to understand or make sense of it.

I gave you the well established meaning and understanding and made it quite clear. If you don't want to understand, that's your problem.

Edited by kadhim

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I gave you the well established meaning and understanding and made it quite clear. If you don't want to understand, that's your problem.

I don't want to understand? i'm the one asking you what you understood from this verse and to bring proofs with ahadith or other verses of Quran to justify your answers. now, if one stays back from war and studies to remove uncertainty, it's different than one studying his whole life and not removing these uncertainties. i think this is the part that is confusing you, and i base this upon your other answers that you give to other topics. you seem confused on what to believe and you tend to cherry pick fatwas as you please. please correct me if i'm wrong. Btw, who are you in taqleed of? Edited by gogiison2

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I don't want to understand? i'm the one asking you what you understood from this verse and to bring proofs with ahadith or other verses of Quran to justify your answers.

I told you what I understood it to mean. It means that some people should hang back from the fray of things and devote themselves to gaining knowledge they can teach to others who are caught up in the fray of everyday life. The specific context of the verse is in the context of the fray of actual battle, but the general utility of the message to the everyday immersioon in the battlefield of our secular life within the material world with all its distractions is relatively obvious. If certain people study as a living rather than working a full time job and flipping books on the weekend, then there will be some who have the time to go deeper into the field of knowledge, with insights that benefit all.

you seem confused on what to believe

I have plenty still to learn, but no, I don't feel particularly confused as to what to believe.

Some might think I am confused because I think certain issues are not as clear cut and simplistic as some would like to think, but that's in my mind a matter of clarity to see the finer details rather than confusion.

tend to cherry pick fatwas as you please. please correct me if i'm wrong. Btw, who are you in taqleed of?

I'm not in taqleed of anyone and do not believe in the concept of taqleed as envisioned by the most rigid of orthodox believers (one marja, unquestioning unconditional obedience to what this individual teaches). I have an active relationship as voluntary seeker of advice with the knowledgeable members of the community when it comes to fiqh, with my reason and conscience as a factor to weigh the advice I am given.

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