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In the Name of God بسم الله

Prophet(a.s.) and abu bakr,umar

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  • Advanced Member

Its Something important to discuss about and something which is to be clearly answered.

since our beloved rasool salallahu alyhe wa alehi wassalaam was the knower of ghaib and he was our maula e qaynaat

he must be knowing about abu bakr and umar what they will do to ahlul bayt after prophet so why didn't prophet opposed them and how come these two become the most important personalities in islamic history

[Moderators Note]: The rules of this forum do not allow cursing/cussing the first three caliphs.

Total warnings received by member: 1.

Total remaining warnings: 2

Edited by inshaAllah
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Islam says do not punish any one untill they commit crime...

Jesus knew his companion will cheat him but still he was silent.

prophet yacob knew his son will mistreat yusuf but still he sent him with them.

many example in history....

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(bismillah)

(salam)

how come these two become the most important personalities in islamic history

first of all

my dear brother, islamic hisroty was not written by prophet

but rather by people, who wrote history as per their likings and disliking

if someone is giving importance to someone, it is all the more possible that he may have some personal likings for that person

let me give you an example

we hear that umar was very brave, and that holy prophet prayed for his conversion to islam in sunni books

now the main question is

do we find any such act by him which makes him worthy of being a person for whom prophet would pray for conversion

ponder for yourself

he was no where in shaab-e-abitalib

we do not see him in any battle in such a way that he is fighting and winning battles

you see all the sahaba could not do what abutalib did

prophet was there is makkah preaching his ideologies and those kuffar were not able to fight him or kill him

now the point is that why did not the prophet pray for his conversion if he was a kafir?

all prophet was supposed to do was to inform you in these words

Volume 8, Book 76, Number 585:

Narrated Abu Hazim from Sahl bin Sa'd:

The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor (forerunner) at the Lake-Fount, and whoever will pass by there, he will drink from it and whoever will drink from it, he will never be thirsty. There will come to me some people whom I will recognize, and they will recognize me, but a barrier will be placed between me and them." Abu Hazim added: An-Nu'man bin Abi 'Aiyash, on hearing me, said. "Did you hear this from Sahl?" I said, "Yes." He said, " I bear witness that I heard Abu Said Al-Khudri saying the same, adding that the Prophet said: 'I will say: They are of me *(i.e. my followers). It will be said, 'You do not know what they innovated (new things) in the religion after you left'. I will say, 'Far removed, far removed (from mercy), those who changed (their religion) after me." Abu Huraira narrated that the Prophet said, "On the Day of Resurrection a group of companions will come to me, but will be driven away from the Lake-Fount, and I will say, 'O Lord (those are) my companions!' It will be said, 'You have no knowledge as to what they innovated after you left; they turned apostate as renegades (reverted from Islam)."

*bracket added by the translator

online link from bokhari

hope this suffices

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  • Advanced Member

Just to have a better understanding, I put you one question.

Allah swt is Aalim ul Ghaib. Allah swt knew what IBLEES laeen will do in future.

But instead punishing him, Allah swt promoted him from earth to first sky and then to the second sky.

Allah could have easily punished him after he refused to prostrate ADAM a.s. But Allah swt gave him liberty till the known time, ( Zahoor of our Maula Imam e Zamaan ajtfs)

Why was it so?

To Add to the punishments of Iblees and

to increase Almighty blessings for the followers of his religion, who suffered from Iblees.

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  • Advanced Member
Just to have a better understanding, I put you one question.

Allah swt is Aalim ul Ghaib. Allah swt knew what IBLEES laeen will do in future.

But instead punishing him, Allah swt promoted him from earth to first sky and then to the second sky.

Allah could have easily punished him after he refused to prostrate ADAM a.s. But Allah swt gave him liberty till the known time, ( Zahoor of our Maula Imam e Zamaan ajtfs)

Why was it so?

To Add to the punishments of Iblees and

to increase Almighty blessings for the followers of his religion, who suffered from Iblees.

MAshAllah! Brother you give a very perfect justification and similarities of iblees and his followers.

But people have still doubt about synchronization of lanat act with Allah.

"Allah huma alan awala zalman zalma haqa Mohammed un wa Aley Mohammed wa akhir wa tabey al zaleqa .....

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Veteran Member

(bismillah)

(salam) ,

Its Something important to discuss about and something which is to be clearly answered.

since our beloved rasool salallahu alyhe wa alehi wassalaam was the knower of ghaib and he was our maula e qaynaat

he must be knowing about abu bakr and umar what they will do to ahlul bayt after prophet so why didn't prophet opposed them and how come these two become the most important personalities in islamic history

[Moderators Note]: The rules of this forum do not allow cursing/cussing the first three caliphs.

Total warnings received by member: 1.

Total remaining warnings: 2

Please visit www.abubakr.org for very very very very very valid reasons for cursing Abu Bakr.

By the way, why's is he called AbuBakr? He didn't have a son named Bakr, did he? :unsure: :unsure:

(wasalam) and take care,

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  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)

(salam) ,

Please visit www.abubakr.org for very very very very very valid reasons for cursing Abu Bakr.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Those are not valid reasons at all for cursing Abu Bakr. If you claim to love Ahlul Bayt, then you should follow them. If they never cursed Abu Bakr, then you shouldn't either.

Abu Bakr was a somewhat decent guy; he was wrong on several occasions, but in terms of behavior, it's not like he used to beat up other Muslims like a certain other caliph; some people act like Abu Bakr is worse than muawyia(la) or his satanic son(la)

wa salam

Edited by lotfilms
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  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)

(salam)

Those are not valid reasons at all for cursing Abu Bakr. If you claim to love Ahlul Bayt, then you should follow them. If they never cursed Abu Bakr, then you shouldn't either.

Abu Bakr was a somewhat decent guy; he was wrong on several occasions, but in terms of behavior, it's not like he used to beat up other Muslims like a certain other caliph; some people act like Abu Bakr is worse than muawyia(la) or his satanic son(la)

from al kafi

Úóáöíøõ Èúäõ ÅöÈúÑóÇåöíãó Úóäú ÃóÈöíåö Úóäú ÍóäóÇäö Èúäö ÓóÏöíÑò æó ãõÍóãøóÏõ Èúäõ íóÍúíóì Úóäú ÃóÍúãóÏó Èúäö ãõÍóãøóÏò Úóäú ãõÍóãøóÏö Èúäö ÅöÓúãóÇÚöíáó

Úóäú ÍóäóÇäö Èúäö ÓóÏöíÑò Úóäú ÃóÈöíåö ÞóÇáó ÓóÃóáúÊõ ÃóÈóÇ ÌóÚúÝóÑò ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÚóäúåõãóÇ ÝóÞóÇáó íóÇ ÃóÈóÇ ÇáúÝóÖúáö ãóÇ ÊóÓúÃóáõäöí

ÚóäúåõãóÇ Ýóæó Çááøóåö ãóÇ ãóÇÊó ãöäøóÇ ãóíøöÊñ ÞóØøõ ÅöáøóÇ ÓóÇÎöØÇð ÚóáóíúåöãóÇ æó ãóÇ ãöäøóÇ Çáúíóæúãó ÅöáøóÇ ÓóÇÎöØÇð ÚóáóíúåöãóÇ íõæÕöí ÈöÐóáößó ÇáúßóÈöíÑõ ãöäøóÇ

ÇáÕøóÛöíÑó ÅöäøóåõãóÇ ÙóáóãóÇäóÇ ÍóÞøóäóÇ æó ãóäóÚóÇäóÇ ÝóíúÆóäóÇ æó ßóÇäóÇ Ãóæøóáó ãóäú ÑóßöÈó ÃóÚúäóÇÞóäóÇ æó ÈóËóÞóÇ ÚóáóíúäóÇ ÈóËúÞÇð Ýöí ÇáúÅöÓúáóÇãö áóÇ íõÓúßóÑõ ÃóÈóÏÇð

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íõßúÊóãõ æó áóßóÊóãó ãöäú ÃõãõæÑöåöãóÇ ãóÇ ßóÇäó íõÙúåóÑõ æó Çááøóåö ãóÇ ÃõÓøöÓóÊú ãöäú ÈóáöíøóÉò æó áóÇ ÞóÖöíøóÉò ÊóÌúÑöí ÚóáóíúäóÇ Ãóåúáó ÇáúÈóíúÊö ÅöáøóÇ åõãóÇ

ÃóÓøóÓóÇ ÃóæøóáóåóÇ ÝóÚóáóíúåöãóÇ áóÚúäóÉõ Çááøóåö æó ÇáúãóáóÇÆößóÉö æó ÇáäøóÇÓö ÃóÌúãóÚöíäó

let me also remind you if you have forgotten

Narrated Aisha,'After the death of Allah's Apostle Fatima,the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her the share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting)which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "the Holy Prophet (pubh) had said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqah (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of the Holy Prophet pbuh.gif.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325

here is the link for this one

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/en...tml#004.053.325

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Just to have a better understanding, I put you one question.

Allah swt is Aalim ul Ghaib. Allah swt knew what IBLEES laeen will do in future.

But instead punishing him, Allah swt promoted him from earth to first sky and then to the second sky.

Allah could have easily punished him after he refused to prostrate ADAM a.s. But Allah swt gave him liberty till the known time, ( Zahoor of our Maula Imam e Zamaan ajtfs)

Why was it so?

To Add to the punishments of Iblees and

to increase Almighty blessings for the followers of his religion, who suffered from Iblees.

That doesnt make sense because the two Shaitains ( since you insisted to compare Abu bakr and Umar to Ibless ) are buried next to the prophet for 1400 years till TODAY, where was the God of Shia and how could He let his prophet o be buried next to two kaifr munafiq, it seems that Abu Bakr and Umar were stronger than the God of Shia !!?

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  • Advanced Member

(bismillah) (salam)

Prophet said he doesn't speak without permission of Allah s.w.t which means Allah s.w.t didn't want to punish them till they did the deed.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Those are not valid reasons at all for cursing Abu Bakr. If you claim to love Ahlul Bayt, then you should follow them. If they never cursed Abu Bakr, then you shouldn't either.

Abu Bakr was a somewhat decent guy; he was wrong on several occasions, but in terms of behavior, it's not like he used to beat up other Muslims like a certain other caliph; some people act like Abu Bakr is worse than muawyia(la) or his satanic son(la)

wa salam

(bismillah) (salam)

We don't determine good or bad by comparing them with other cruel people, it is important we speak up against all injustice. I am sure you heard the story in the quran where the calf was halmstrung and anyone who didn't protest against it, Allah s.w.t send his azab on. He stole Hazrat Fatima's garden for gods sake.

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  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)

(salam)

ok

let me put it this way round

we read in bokhari

Volume 5, Book 57, Number 111:

Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:

Allah's Apostle said, "Fatima is a part of me, and whoever makes her angry, makes me angry."

link from bokhari

and i had already told you

Narrated Aisha,'After the death of Allah's Apostle Fatima,the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her the share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting)which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "the Holy Prophet (pubh) had said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqah (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of the Holy Prophet pbuh.gif.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325

link i have already given

and we find in quran

57. Åöäøó ÇáøóÐöíäó íõÄúÐõæäó Çááøóåó æóÑóÓõæáóåõ áóÚóäóåõãõ Çááøóåõ Ýöí ÇáÏøõäúíóÇ æóÇáúÂÎöÑóÉö æóÃóÚóÏøó áóåõãú ÚóÐóÇÈðÇ ãõåöíäðÇ

[Mohsin Khan] Verily, those who annoy Allâh and His Messenger (SAW) Allâh has cursed them in this world, and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating torment.

now what do u say?

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  • Advanced Member
now what do u say?

(bismillah)

(salam)

Why do you keep giving me Sunni references? lol

And why do you quote the hadith from Miswar ibn Makrama when he narrated a very similar hadith saying that the Prophet (pbuh) said that when Ali (as) supposedly trying to marry the daughter of abu jahl(la)?

Obviously the content of the hadith is sahih, but a Sunni is eventually going to get you on that.

If you can't get me a hadith of Ahlul Bayt cursing Abu Bakr then I refuse to curse him.

As I said, there is a difference between angry at him and cursing him.

And never underestimate God's mercy

wa salam

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  • Advanced Member
(bismillah) (salam)

Prophet said he doesn't speak without permission of Allah s.w.t which means Allah s.w.t didn't want to punish them till they did the deed.

(bismillah) (salam)

We don't determine good or bad by comparing them with other cruel people, it is important we speak up against all injustice. I am sure you heard the story in the quran where the calf was halmstrung and anyone who didn't protest against it, Allah s.w.t send his azab on. He stole Hazrat Fatima's garden for gods sake.

(bismillah)

(salam)

I personally don't really like the guy but you should always give people an excuse. It was well-known that Abu Bakr was somewhat ignorant about aspects of the sharia; perhaps he actually believed that the Prophet (pbuh) said such a thing. Besides, we have hadiths that Abu Bakr intended to give fadak to Fatimah (as) after her khutbah, but a *certain person* ripped up the deed. And we have hadiths (not sure about the authenticity of these) that he deeply regretted his actions towards her (as) on his deathbed and even before his deathbed.

wa salam

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  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)

(salam)

Why do you keep giving me Sunni references? lol

i never knew you would forget this soon

did i not give you from al-kafi which you rejected so smoothly by saying

As for the al Kafi one, I can't read it on this computer.

ok take this one, again from al-kafi.

äóÇäñ Úóäú ÃóÈöíåö Úóäú ÃóÈöí ÌóÚúÝóÑò ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞóÇáó ÞõáúÊõ áóåõ ãóÇ ßóÇäó æõáúÏõ íóÚúÞõæÈó ÃóäúÈöíóÇÁó ÞóÇáó áóÇ æó áóßöäøóåõãú

ßóÇäõæÇ ÃóÓúÈóÇØó ÃóæúáóÇÏö ÇáúÃóäúÈöíóÇÁö æó áóãú íóßõäú íõÝóÇÑöÞõæÇ ÇáÏøõäúíóÇ ÅöáøóÇ ÓõÚóÏóÇÁó ÊóÇÈõæÇ æó ÊóÐóßøóÑõæÇ ãóÇ ÕóäóÚõæÇ æó Åöäøó ÇáÔøóíúÎóíúäö ÝóÇÑóÞóÇ

ÇáÏøõäúíóÇ æó áóãú íóÊõæÈóÇ æó áóãú íóÊóÐóßøóÑóÇ ãóÇ ÕóäóÚóÇ ÈöÃóãöíÑö ÇáúãõÄúãöäöíäó ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÝóÚóáóíúåöãóÇ áóÚúäóÉõ Çááøóåö æó ÇáúãóáóÇÆößóÉö æó

ÇáäøóÇÓö ÃóÌúãóÚöíäó

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  • Advanced Member

I never understood why we should curse uthman and Abu Bakr and Ayeesha. :no:

SURELY GOD IS INFINITELY MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY HUMAN BEING?

Belief in God should bring us humans together more than petty squabbles divide us.

Edited by saff
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  • Advanced Member

as far as abu bakr regretting what he did and was willing to give back fadak is concerned,Yes i totally agree that he was willing to give it back to hazrat fatimah (as) but he didn't do that because he thought that if he would give it back then he would have to accept he was wrong and that he would then be questioned by the people for stealing away the khilafat of amirul mumineen.as far as he repenting on death bed is concerned if he truly had repented and asked for forgivness don't you think the queen of paradise,the most benovelent lady of prophet's family,the member of ahlulbayt(as) for whom God has promised to keep away sins and give them thorough purification hazrat fatimah zahra(as) would have forgiven him,but he didn't repented and when bibi zahra(as) was about to die she asked imam ali (as) to bury her in the night and don't let them(umar,abu bakr) pray namaze janazah on her grave.If he was a true repenter she would have FORGIVEN him.

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I never understood why we should curse Umar and Abu Bakr and Ayeesha. :no:

SURELY GOD IS INFINITELY MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY HUMAN BEING?

Belief in God should bring us humans together more than petty squabbles divide us.

Allah curses them in the quran why shudnt His true followers? the enemis of the ahlulbayt, be a curse upon them. i dont have time to look for verses but there are a lot.

as far as abu bakr regretting what he did and was willing to give back fadak is concerned,Yes i totally agree that he was willing to give it back to hazrat fatimah (as) but he didn't do that because he thought that if he would give it back then he would have to accept he was wrong and that he would then be questioned by the people for stealing away the khilafat of amirul mumineen.as far as he repenting on death bed is concerned if he truly had repented and asked for forgivness don't you think the queen of paradise,the most benovelent lady of prophet's family,the member of ahlulbayt(as) for whom God has promised to keep away sins and give them thorough purification hazrat fatimah zahra(as) would have forgiven him,but he didn't repented and when bibi zahra(as) was about to die she asked imam ali (as) to bury her in the night and don't let them(umar,abu bakr) pray namaze janazah on her grave.If he was a true repenter she would have FORGIVEN him.

sunnis amaze me with their stupidity the DAUGHTER OF THE PROPHET (pbuh) is being oppressed by abu bakr a man u take as ur caliph how do u think the prophet (pbuh) feels about abu bakr? its all common sense.

Edited by interesting_guy
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  • Advanced Member

Its an open proof for all specially to the brothers of ahle sunnah to judge abu bakr and umar,

yet they continue to praise them and appreciate them.God knows how much more sins they both would have committed which are still hidden due to manipulations of authentic sources.

The most amazing thing about them both is that they managed to make the majority of people of those times to accept the khilafah of abu bakr inspite of the command of Allah (swt) in ghadeer to declare ali (as) as their mawla.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Basic Members

Man these abu bakr and umar are still in the islamic history cause the history was written at the time of muawiya and in the years of banu ummayia era. These guys were only jeloused of BANI HASHIM and they only wanted to hide the FAZAAIL of AHLY BAIT and in some way muawiya succeed in fabricating the history but still we shiites are present banu ummayia cant succeed!

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