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Sayeda Zahra

Praying with sunni

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Salams

At college, I often attend friday prayers with other muslims (sunnis)

I am aware that their prayers contain some aspects which invalidate the salah e.g. saying ameen after surah al fatiha

However, I still attend because I don't want to appear hostile towards them and want to prove to some of the more ignorant ones that shia DO pray and ARE still muslims

So, am I commiting a sin by praying with them in their way, e.g. with my hands folded on my waist? I always repeat my salah afterwards on my own anyway, but I just need to know whether it is haram or hypocritical of me to join in with them?

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WA wr wb..

i don't know about niyyat of following a sunni in salaat. if you say you do reapeat the prayers when at home then i guess what i would do is behind the sunni imam w/out niyyat of salaat rather i would niyyat of standing w/ them in unity and i would go there speed and maybe just do tasbeeh throughout the whole salaat.

Edit: if you do this for unity i think you must also ask questions about shia to fulfill your "unity" and i would just pretend i am in ignorance and ask them many questions like "what if" and "why" "why not" etc.

Edited by gogiison2

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(bismillah)

If you are praying their way, then how are you making a case for Shias then? Be a rebel and be different. Shake the boat a little bit.

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i don't know about being rebellious..i edited my post #2 tell me what you think..i think you'll agree.

(bismillah)

Praying in a masjid is always superior to praying at home. Give your Shia prayers there, not with the intention of completing Jome salat, but just for worship in general, and that should take care of the unity component right there. I would do Zhuhr and Asr there if possible, and do it on your own time.

Also the khutba should mostly be fine, and the farther they stay away from talking about Umar and the like, etc, the better.

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^ praying at a masjid is better solo or in congregation? if one wants jamaat for reward i think shia led prayers would be the way. although i guess i agree with what you're saying what i think might be a good idea is to start maybe w/ hands folded and then start asking many questions and work into praying the shia way shortly afterwards because you know how many sunnis will call us off because we are shia regardless of what truth we speak. so the gradual change in my opinion would be good.

also from what i understand for a woman it's more benefit at home than at a masjid. (not including the holiest sites of islam.)

Edited by gogiison2

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^ praying at a masjid is better solo or in congregation? if one wants jamaat for reward i think shia led prayers would be the way. although i guess i agree with what you're saying what i think might be a good idea is to start maybe w/ hands folded and then start asking many questions and work into praying the shia way shortly afterwards because you know how many sunnis will call us off because we are shia regardless of what truth we speak. so the gradual change in my opinion would be good.

also from what i understand for a woman it's more benefit at home than at a masjid. (not including the holiest sites of islam.)

Yes I have heard that it is better for a woman to pray at home than in the masjid too but in college my lunch is only one hour long and I don't have enough time to go home and come back etc, so I resort to praying with them

Also, I don't usually fold my hands or say ameen, I just listen to the khutba and then pray as I normally would but stood with the sunnis in congregation, but I was just wondering generally what people thought about this?

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^ praying at a masjid is better solo or in congregation? if one wants jamaat for reward i think shia led prayers would be the way. although i guess i agree with what you're saying what i think might be a good idea is to start maybe w/ hands folded and then start asking many questions and work into praying the shia way shortly afterwards because you know how many sunnis will call us off because we are shia regardless of what truth we speak. so the gradual change in my opinion would be good.

also from what i understand for a woman it's more benefit at home than at a masjid. (not including the holiest sites of islam.)

(bismillah)

It depends on what "Sunni" masjid one goes too. As far as I know, most are pretty liberal or open minded, and barely know anything about their own faith, let alone somebody else's. You shouldn't have that much trouble unless you get to the Salafi types. If you are approached, just say I am a follower of Ahlul-Bayt, and leave it at that.

I didn't even realize the OP was female. I guess that changes a few things.

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(bismillah)

It depends on what "Sunni" masjid one goes too. As far as I know, most are pretty liberal or open minded, and barely know anything about their own faith, let alone somebody else's. You shouldn't have that much trouble unless you get to the Salafi types. If you are approached, just say I am a follower of Ahlul-Bayt, and leave it at that.

I didn't even realize the OP was female. I guess that changes a few things.

these same sunnis would also be confused about what to follow when we ask about Judas, the sahaba of Prophet Isa. If you mean liberal as in taqiya then maybe. LOL. remember everyone is born a 12er, it's the parents and ignorance that changes them. i guess it would be a judgement call based on what the sister sees. if they look angry or short tempered then i would recommend my way. if they seem very open and honest and searching for truth then i would maybe recommend your way, but chances are there may be 1 salafi minded one in the jumaat since there jumaat's are usually large.

Edited by gogiison2

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these same sunnis would also be confused about what to follow when we ask about Judas, the sahaba of Prophet Isa. If you mean liberal as in taqiya then maybe. LOL. remember everyone is born a 12er, it's the parents and ignorance that changes them. i guess it would be a judgement call based on what the sister sees. if they look angry or short tempered then i would recommend my way. if they seem very open and honest and searching for truth then i would maybe recommend your way, but chances are there may be 1 salafi minded one in the jumaat since there jumaat's are usually large.

(bismillah)

I admit, it can be very uncomfortable being amongst the masses and not knowing who is cool and who will jump you outside. Islam is a struggle, and the truth cannot be compromised for the sake of conformity, unless your life is in danger, and if you are in the West at least, this shouldn't be too much a problem.

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(bismillah)

I admit, it can be very uncomfortable being amongst the masses and not knowing who is cool and who will jump you outside. Islam is a struggle, and the truth cannot be compromised for the sake of conformity, unless your life is in danger, and if you are in the West at least, this shouldn't be too much a problem.

(bismillah)

(salam)

That is the reason why I specifically go to my local wanna-be salafi mosque. I want to show them that Shia are normal people but I'm not afraid of what they'll do to me if I pray like the Prophet (pbuh). They'll be asked about it on the Day of Judgment inshallah

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(bismillah)

I admit, it can be very uncomfortable being amongst the masses and not knowing who is cool and who will jump you outside. Islam is a struggle, and the truth cannot be compromised for the sake of conformity, unless your life is in danger, and if you are in the West at least, this shouldn't be too much a problem.

(bismillah)

ya, definitely here in the west i doubt people would fight over these things unless the shia loses sabr. the thing is, if we openly do our worship the shia way while salafis are present i think they'll write us off as being a quack and not listen to us. as we know there is always special ways to deal w/ different levels of ignorance and i would do the gradual change/teaching with the more extreme salafis.

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Salams

At college, I often attend friday prayers with other muslims (sunnis)

I am aware that their prayers contain some aspects which invalidate the salah e.g. saying ameen after surah al fatiha

However, I still attend because I don't want to appear hostile towards them and want to prove to some of the more ignorant ones that shia DO pray and ARE still muslims

So, am I commiting a sin by praying with them in their way, e.g. with my hands folded on my waist? I always repeat my salah afterwards on my own anyway, but I just need to know whether it is haram or hypocritical of me to join in with them?

I think it's actually a good thing to pray with the Sunnis because it's a great way to remain united. (Remember, a family that prays together, stays together, except in this case the family is the community.) I used to do it all the time on Fridays with my MSA, but I used to keep my arms down, use a turbah, etc. And I never redid my prayers afterward, either.

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According to Sayyed Khamenei, you can't study behind a Sunni unless there is no other way; for example in Mecca or so

what do you mean we can't study behind a sunni?

Edited by gogiison2

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(bismillah)

(salam)

That is the reason why I specifically go to my local wanna-be salafi mosque. I want to show them that Shia are normal people but I'm not afraid of what they'll do to me if I pray like the Prophet (pbuh). They'll be asked about it on the Day of Judgment inshallah

It is the best when you bring your turba and then they look so astonished.

and to reply to the topic starter..... just pray with them the shia way.... do jamat but dont make your intention of jamat.

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(bismillah)

Praying in a masjid is always superior to praying at home. Give your Shia prayers there, not with the intention of completing Jome salat, but just for worship in general, and that should take care of the unity component right there. I would do Zhuhr and Asr there if possible, and do it on your own time.

So you would rather pray Juma Salat or Zuhr and Asr with Sunnis and then pray them the shiite way AGAIN at Home !!?

Hypocrisy at its best :)

please do us a favor and don't at our sunni mosques ..save your time and pray at home ...

I never knew Unity would require a person to become hypocrite ..

At a Sunni Mosque " Look at me Sunnis I praying with you, isn't unity lovely !! "

At Home : " guess I have to pray the same prayers again ..after all they were false because I was praying behind a sunni imam "

Next time Find an Ahmadi Mosque !!

Edited by Sunniyah4life

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also how can one pray w/ intention behind a sunni prayer leader if he doesn't recite bismillahirahmanirahim before every sura?.. of course barring chapter 9.

Edited by gogiison2

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So you would rather pray Juma Salat or Zuhr and Asr with Sunnis and then pray them the shiite way AGAIN at Home !!?

Hypocrisy at its best :)

please do us a favor and don't at our sunni mosques ..save your time and pray at home ...

I never knew Unity would require a person to become hypocrite ..

At a Sunni Mosque " Look at me Sunnis I praying with you, isn't unity lovely !! "

At Home : " guess I have to pray the same prayers again ..after all they were false because I was praying behind a sunni imam "

Next time Find an Ahmadi Mosque !!

(bismillah)

I thought mosques belonged to Allah SWT, where did the 'our sunni' come into it? Oh yes, after the event at saqheefah!

Unity may have required one person to act hypocritically in your eyes, but disunity came about when the thousands at Ghadeere Khum (on the way back from the HOLY PROPHET SAWW's last hajj) became hypocrites.

So let's leave hypocrisy out of it, shall we?

Also, is the Ahmadi sect the only sect of Shiaism u acknowledge? Because i don't even count them as muslims.

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Salams

At college, I often attend friday prayers with other muslims (sunnis)

I am aware that their prayers contain some aspects which invalidate the salah e.g. saying ameen after surah al fatiha

However, I still attend because I don't want to appear hostile towards them and want to prove to some of the more ignorant ones that shia DO pray and ARE still muslims

So, am I commiting a sin by praying with them in their way, e.g. with my hands folded on my waist? I always repeat my salah afterwards on my own anyway, but I just need to know whether it is haram or hypocritical of me to join in with them?

Wswrwb,

Why are WE the ones always having to PROVE OURSELVES to the rest of the 'ummah'? Why should WE have to prove that we do pray? Why can't the sunnis prove their love for the ahlul bayt for a change by maybe attending our mehfils, our majlises?

How come we never see sunnis attending our jum'ah namaz?

Also sister, what is the point of pretending to be like them by having your hands folded on your wist when praying. If your Shia, say it LOUD and PROUD. Your life is not in danger, there is no basis for going into a state of Taqayya. And all this for the sake of unity???

Why should the lovers of the ahlul bayt ever unite with the lovers of the enemies of the Ahlul Bayt?

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Salams

At college, I often attend friday prayers with other muslims (sunnis)

I am aware that their prayers contain some aspects which invalidate the salah e.g. saying ameen after surah al fatiha

However, I still attend because I don't want to appear hostile towards them and want to prove to some of the more ignorant ones that shia DO pray and ARE still muslims

So, am I commiting a sin by praying with them in their way, e.g. with my hands folded on my waist? I always repeat my salah afterwards on my own anyway, but I just need to know whether it is haram or hypocritical of me to join in with them?

assalamu alaikum

What you do is ihtiyart the prayer to yourself and move when they move. If you can't use a torbat, then you put a piece of paper up in your hijab on your forhead of palm the torbat. (People will notice if your palming a torbat. OR you can even get one of those prayer rugs that are made of straw or have straw matting or a small square of straw matting at the top sewen in it. Leave your hands to the sides. Malikis can pray with their hands to their sides. If someone asks you can just say that Malikis are allowed to pray with their hands to their side.

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^ jazakAllah khayr...ya that's what i do if i pray behind a sunni. i was kind of directing that question in post #21 to those who pray behind sunni with the intention of behind their imam, sorry for not clarifying.

Edited by gogiison2

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Pray with a jamat with the intention of praying furada meaning alone. You should pray furada at anytime you think the Imam of the salaat prays incorrectly or is not fit to lead the salaat no matter what faith he follows.

And a couple of points just for the sake of clarification:

1) When praying furada, you should recite the surahs silently (whereas you would not recite them yourself when praying in Shia jamaat).

2) You cannot pray the Friday Prayer as furada, because according to Shia fiqh it requires a jamaat of at least 5 people. And because it's just two rakaats, you can't pray Dhuhr at that time either. If you're going to join Sunnis in the Friday Prayer then do a sunnat prayer or a qadha Fajr prayer. Then afterwards you will still need to recite the Dhuhr prayer.

As for a turbah, you could possibly use a tasbeeh made from wood or clay or some other material from the earth. There's some info at http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=234914904 ... check with your own marja, though.

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For the person who said we can pray behind a Sunni imam in order for unity, no we can't pray behind a Sunni imam unless its urgent or there is no other way such as in Mecca or if you were passing through a Sunni populated area and you had no other choice or so.

The only reason you can pray behind a Sunni imam without those reasons is when there is a Takleef. For example, in 2006 or 2007, Sayyed Hassan Nasrollah asked Shiites and Sunnis to pray behind the Sunni imam; Daiya Fathi Yakan. It was for the unity. And thus, there was a Takleef by Sayyed Hassan.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Ok, enough with our own opinions. Lets see what the scholars say:

Ayatollah Sistani:

Question: Is it permissible to offer congregational prayers behind a Sunni prayer leader?

Answer: It is permissible but you must recite Hamd and Sura yourself even though the recitation may be in low voice.

http://sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&a...d=5&cid=568

feel free to add the opinions of any other scholar, with citations (from the website, books, etc)

EDIT: and yes it would be hypocritical to pray that way; keep it real

wa salam

Edited by lotfilms

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For the person who said we can pray behind a Sunni imam in order for unity, no we can't pray behind a Sunni imam unless its urgent or there is no other way such as in Mecca or if you were passing through a Sunni populated area and you had no other choice or so.

The only reason you can pray behind a Sunni imam without those reasons is when there is a Takleef. For example, in 2006 or 2007, Sayyed Hassan Nasrollah asked Shiites and Sunnis to pray behind the Sunni imam; Daiya Fathi Yakan. It was for the unity. And thus, there was a Takleef by Sayyed Hassan.

According to the ruling of Ayatollah Khamenei you can pray jamat prayers with sunnis with the intention of jamat and also pray jumah prayers and not have to pray them over.

In his book "Practical Laws of Islam" on pg 214 question 609 he was asked "Is it permissible to do one's prayers in a sunni group prayer?" The answer is "It is permitted to perform one's prayers in jama'ah behind them to create greater harmony with them."

This question comes from his website wilayah.org

Q: Would I be guilty if I do not pray in my city’s masjids? What can I do? For your knowledge, if I want to pray there, I should pray cross-armed?

A: You are not obliged to attend their congregational prayer. Anyhow, if you attend there and pray like them, it is valid, but, regarding crossing arms, as long as you can neglect it, you should neglect it and it seems not to be an example of taqiyyah as far as crossing arms is concerned. Of course, if taqiyyah requires praying cross-armed, it would not harm the correctness of praying behind them.

This was also the ruling of Imam Khomeini and this is also the ruling of Ayatollah Makarim Shirazi as well. It is very possible that others also have this ruling though I do not know for certain.

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(bismillah) I am Sunni .. let me pls. tell you how we do nyyat for salah .. Bissmillah .. Nyyat for offering Salat ( Asar / Isha etc) for Allah the Almighty , my face is twards Kabah Tullah , then .. Allah Ho Akbar ...

WA wr wb..

i don't know about niyyat of following a sunni in salaat. if you say you do reapeat the prayers when at home then i guess what i would do is behind the sunni imam w/out niyyat of salaat rather i would niyyat of standing w/ them in unity and i would go there speed and maybe just do tasbeeh throughout the whole salaat.

Edit: if you do this for unity i think you must also ask questions about shia to fulfill your "unity" and i would just pretend i am in ignorance and ask them many questions like "what if" and "why" "why not" etc.

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(bismillah) A.s sister,

How are you? That's pretty interesting you fold your hands while praying with Sunnis, but I also have a best friend and very close to his family who are sunni, but whenever we go to pray at his mosque, i STILL don't fold my hands, some people found it weird but it's all good..also my friend understands it too, so he never forced me or told me to fold my hands while I am in sunni mosque and I have also volunteered in sunni mosque's before. Think of this way, the reason we go to mosque is to bow down to our lord Allah s.w.t..so I don't think it would be a sin to pray in a sunni mosque, they are muslims too. About folding hands, well Allah knows everything, so I don't think it should be a problem.

W/salam o iltimase dua

Edited by MohsenAli

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