Turbah

[GhulamNabi]

The Shia place a piece of stone or clay, known as �Turbah,� on the ground so that their forehead touches the stone when they prostrate themselves in prayer. The Turbahs are made out of the stone or clay from the shrines of Imams or saints. Oftentimes, the Turbah is made from the clay or stone from Imam Hussain�s shrine. The Shia Ulema have declared that no Turbah has a higher sacredness than a Turbah made from Imam Hussain�s shrine, not even the stone from the Holy Ka�abah.

By praying to stones made from the shrines of their Imams and saints, the Shia are practising a polythiestic and paganistic act of grave-worshipping; they are quite literally making Sajood (prostration) to the Imams or saints. Indeed, praying to the Turbah of these Imams and saints is Bidah (evil innovation) and Shirk; it is not much different than idol worshipping. What is the difference between the idol that Hindus do Sajood to and the Turbah that the Shia do Sajood to? Both are considered Waseelah to bring them closer to God, and both of them are prostrated to.

Shi�ism is rooted in Shirk; the Shia have allowed their so-called love for the Imams translate into polythiestic adoration.

Moderator Note: Member has been warned for disrespect of the religion of others, however, I've allowed his text to remain so that it can more easily be refuted by my brothers and sisters on shiachat for the benefit of those lacking in knowledge who may have misconceptions similar to this person's.

Edited April 7, 2009 by smiley
Moderator added a note.

[wayfarer.]

(salam) my jaahil brother in faith(?) (or the jaahil site from which you have pasted this)

Prostrating on a Turbah does not mean we are worshipping the Turbah. I don't know, it might take a decade for you to understand the difference between the two.

The people closest to the Holy Prophet (s) and his Ahlalbayt (as) were very firm in their practice of prostrating on the earth and, in doing so, were following the tradition of their grandfather, the Messenger of Allah (s).

Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq said: "Prostration is not permitted except on the earth and whatever grows from it except on those things that are eaten or on cotton."

When he (Imam Ja'far as Sadiq a.s) was asked whether having one's turban touch the earth instead of the forehead was acceptable, he replied that this was not sufficeint unless the forehead actually touched the earth.

Wasa'il al-Shi'ah, Volume 3 page 592

There are many Prophetic traditions that clearly prove that he (s) also prostrated on earth and ordered his Sahaba to do likewise. We read in Sunan Abu Dawud, Urdu Edition, page 381, 376:

“The Prophet (s) had the sign of Mud on his forehead and Nose, due to prostration on Mud”

Similar traditions are present in Volume 7 of Kanz ul Ummal from the section on sujood laws/ahadith

[toocoool66]

(bismillah)

(salam)

The Shia place a piece of stone or clay, known as “Turbah,” on the ground so that their forehead touches the stone when they prostrate themselves in prayer

hmm i prostration our forehead touches the stone

and i have myself seen sunnis touching their foreheads on the same very cloth on which they are offering prayers while prostating

so

can it be said that sunnis are worshiping and prostrating to that cloth???

[wayfarer.]

Shi’ism is rooted in Shirk

can it be said that sunnis are worshiping and prostrating to that cloth???

Lol, yes sunnism is rooted in shirk because they worship the cloth, what is this if not polytheistic adoration ? Big time Biddah astaghfirullah

Edited April 7, 2009 by Alhumdolilllah

[Guest]

(bismillah)

I thought this guy was banned already.

[GhulamNabi]

I have noticed that my Shia friends argued: “We only pray on the dirt from the grave, not towards it.” To this, I can only say: the first generation of the people of Nuh (A.S.) did not pray to their pictures, but rather they simply prayed near them. Yet, their action was satanic and the cause for their eventual destruction.

I want to ask you why you place your foreheads on a piece of clay can you give me a logic behind this?

[Hassan2jz]

I have noticed that my Shia friends argued: “We only pray on the dirt from the grave, not towards it.” To this, I can only say: the first generation of the people of Nuh (A.S.) did not pray to their pictures, but rather they simply prayed near them. Yet, their action was satanic and the cause for their eventual destruction.

I want to ask you why you place your foreheads on a piece of clay can you give me a logic behind this?

http://www.al-islam.org/beliefs/practices/turba.htm

[gogiison2]

I have noticed that my Shia friends argued: “We only pray on the dirt from the grave, not towards it.” To this, I can only say: the first generation of the people of Nuh (A.S.) did not pray to their pictures, but rather they simply prayed near them. Yet, their action was satanic and the cause for their eventual destruction.

I want to ask you why you place your foreheads on a piece of clay can you give me a logic behind this?

(bismillah)

ask the Maliki sunnis why they say it's mustahab to use pure earth for sijdah.

[guest 34193]

I have noticed that my Shia friends argued: “We only pray on the dirt from the grave, not towards it.” To this, I can only say: the first generation of the people of Nuh (A.S.) did not pray to their pictures, but rather they simply prayed near them. Yet, their action was satanic and the cause for their eventual destruction.

I want to ask you why you place your foreheads on a piece of clay can you give me a logic behind this?

If you had your way, would you tear down the Ka`ba too? Remove the black stone? Destroy the Maqam Ibrahim? Flatten Safa and Marwa? Have Muslims fallen into shirk because of these?

Anyhow, the reason for doing sujud on that which is the earth or grows from it, but which is neither eaten nor worn, is that the A'imma of the Ahl al-Bayt instructed us to do so as a condition of sujud in salat. During the time of the Prophet (pbuh) they did not use these carpets of fabric as you do sujud on them today. By your argument, would you say that you are then doing a bid`a by doing this? Would you say that Sunnis are carpet worshipers falling into shirk because of it?

As to the reason of this, there's a beautiful hadith from Imam Sadiq (as) wherein he explains it. It reads:

ÞÇá åÔÇã Èä ÇáÍßã(2) áÇÈí ÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã: " ÃÎÈÑäí ÚãÇ íÌæÒ ÇáÓÌæÏ Úáíå æÚãÇ áÇ íÌæÒ¿ ÞÇá: ÇáÓÌæÏ áÇ íÌæÒ ÅáÇ Úáì ÇáÇÑÖ Ãæ Úáì ãÇ ÃäÈÊÊ ÇáÇÑÖ ÅáÇ ãÇ Ãßá Ãæ áÈÓ ÝÞÇá áå: ÌÚáÊ ÝÏÇß ãÇ ÇáÚáÉ Ýí Ðáß¿ ÞÇá: áÇä ÇáÓÌæÏ ÎÖæÚ ááå ÚÒæÌá ÝáÇ íäÈÛí Ãä íßæä Úáì ãÇ íÄßá Ãæ íáÈÓ áÇä ÃÈäÇÁ ÇáÏäíÇ ÚÈíÏ ãÇ íÃßáæä æíáÈÓæä¡ æÇáÓÇÌÏ Ýí ÓÌæÏå Ýí ÚÈÇÏÉ Çááå ÚÒæÌá ÝáÇ íäÈÛí Ãä íÖÚ ÌÈåÊå Ýí ÓÌæÏå Úáì ãÚÈæÏ ÃÈäÇÁ ÇáÏäíÇ ÇáÐíä ÇÛÊÑæÇ ÈÛÑæÑåÇ¡ æÇáÓÌæÏ Úáì ÇáÇÑÖ ÃÝÖá áÇäå ÃÈáÛ Ýí ÇáÊæÇÖÚ æÇáÎÖæÚ ááå ÚÒæÌá "

Hisham b. al-Hakam said to Abu `Abdillah (as): Inform me of what it is permitted to do sujud upon and what is not permitted. He said: Sujud is not allowed except for upon the earth or what the earth grows except that which is eaten or worn. So he said to him: May I be your sacrifice, what is the reason for that? He said: It is because sujud is submission to Allah, `azza wa jalla, so it is not appropriate that it be upon what it eaten and worn. For the sons of the dunya are worshipers of what they wear and eat. And the prostrator in his sujud is in the worship of Allah, `azza wa jalla, so it is not appropriate that he place his forehead in his sujud upon that which is worshiped by the sons of the dunya, having been deceived by its deception. And sujud upon the earth is better for it is more (conducive) to attaining humility and submission to Allah, `azza wa jalla.

[Ali Huzaifa]

(salam) my jaahil brother in faith(?) (or the jaahil site from which you have pasted this)

Prostrating on a Turbah does not mean we are worshipping the Turbah. I don't know, it might take a decade for you to understand the difference between the two.

The people closest to the Holy Prophet (s) and his Ahlalbayt (as) were very firm in their practice of prostrating on the earth and, in doing so, were following the tradition of their grandfather, the Messenger of Allah (s).

Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq said: "Prostration is not permitted except on the earth and whatever grows from it except on those things that are eaten or on cotton."

When he (Imam Ja'far as Sadiq a.s) was asked whether having one's turban touch the earth instead of the forehead was acceptable, he replied that this was not sufficeint unless the forehead actually touched the earth.

Wasa'il al-Shi'ah, Volume 3 page 592

There are many Prophetic traditions that clearly prove that he (s) also prostrated on earth and ordered his Sahaba to do likewise. We read in Sunan Abu Dawud, Urdu Edition, page 381, 376:

“The Prophet (s) had the sign of Mud on his forehead and Nose, due to prostration on Mud”

Similar traditions are present in Volume 7 of Kanz ul Ummal from the section on sujood laws/ahadith

kudos....man you prove this nasibi a real *****

[wayfarer.]

^ (salam)

the following link provided by bro Hassan2jz is good!

http://www.al-islam.org/beliefs/practices/turba.htm

[Mehek]

The Shia place a piece of stone or clay, known as �Turbah,� on the ground so that their forehead touches the stone when they prostrate themselves in prayer. The Turbahs are made out of the stone or clay from the shrines of Imams or saints. Oftentimes, the Turbah is made from the clay or stone from Imam Hussain�s shrine. The Shia Ulema have declared that no Turbah has a higher sacredness than a Turbah made from Imam Hussain�s shrine, not even the stone from the Holy Ka�abah.

By praying to stones made from the shrines of their Imams and saints, the Shia are practising a polythiestic and paganistic act of grave-worshipping; they are quite literally making Sajood (prostration) to the Imams or saints. Indeed, praying to the Turbah of these Imams and saints is Bidah (evil innovation) and Shirk; it is not much different than idol worshipping. What is the difference between the idol that Hindus do Sajood to and the Turbah that the Shia do Sajood to? Both are considered Waseelah to bring them closer to God, and both of them are prostrated to.

Shi�ism is rooted in Shirk; the Shia have allowed their so-called love for the Imams translate into polythiestic adoration.

Moderator Note: Member has been warned for disrespect of the religion of others, however, I've allowed his text to remain so that it can more easily be refuted by my brothers and sisters on shiachat for the benefit of those lacking in knowledge who may have misconceptions similar to this person's.

Iblis became the cursed one when he insulted Adam by saying he is made of Clay and did not perform sajadah to him on Gods's order.

GhulamIblis is another servant of Iblis who insults the clay for which God has chosen a man to be made and was proud of his sand creation.

Edited April 7, 2009 by Mehek

[Abdul-Rahman Brent]

The Shia place a piece of stone or clay, known as �Turbah,� on the ground so that their forehead touches the stone when they prostrate themselves in prayer. The Turbahs are made out of the stone or clay from the shrines of Imams or saints. Oftentimes, the Turbah is made from the clay or stone from Imam Hussain�s shrine. The Shia Ulema have declared that no Turbah has a higher sacredness than a Turbah made from Imam Hussain�s shrine, not even the stone from the Holy Ka�abah.

By praying to stones made from the shrines of their Imams and saints, the Shia are practising a polythiestic and paganistic act of grave-worshipping; they are quite literally making Sajood (prostration) to the Imams or saints. Indeed, praying to the Turbah of these Imams and saints is Bidah (evil innovation) and Shirk; it is not much different than idol worshipping. What is the difference between the idol that Hindus do Sajood to and the Turbah that the Shia do Sajood to? Both are considered Waseelah to bring them closer to God, and both of them are prostrated to.

Shi�ism is rooted in Shirk; the Shia have allowed their so-called love for the Imams translate into polythiestic adoration.

Moderator Note: Member has been warned for disrespect of the religion of others, however, I've allowed his text to remain so that it can more easily be refuted by my brothers and sisters on shiachat for the benefit of those lacking in knowledge who may have misconceptions similar to this person's.

Regarding making sujood (prostration) on Turbah; read the following; from: http://www.answering-ansar.org/fiqh/salat/en/chap12.php

Quote- Prostrating on Turbah

Praying on the earth

As Shi’a we believe that the most perfect method of prostration is to place one’s head upon the earth, since this is lowest point that one can place onself when remembering Allah (swt). Prostrating itself is a gesture of humiliation and insignificance before the Almighty, and if it is done on dirt, it will have more effect than, say, prostrating on carpets. In Ahl’ul Sunnah’s authority work Targhib wal-Tarhib, Vol 1 page 581 we read:

“The Messenger of Allah (pbuh&hf) said: Make your faces dusty, and cover your noses with dust."

The Prophet (s) explained the reasons for prostrating on soil in the most beautiful manner. In Kanz ul Ummal we see the hadith that beautifully ORDERS (during sujood) the Masah (rubbing of forehead) on EARTH/SOIL and its reasoning:

We read in Kanz al Ummal Volume 7 Hadeeth Number 19778:

“Rub yourself by earth because its pity/mercy for you, pity/mercy just like the kind mother have mercy for her childern, verily you have been created from it, it is your livelihood (food) and to it you will be buried after death”

Online Kanz ul Ummal, Volume 7 Hadith 19778 - (Cached)

Similarly When Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (as) was asked about the philosophy behind prostrating on the earth, he said:

"Because prostration is surrendering and humiliation to the Almighty. Therefore, it shouldn't be on what is worn and eaten because people are slaves of what they eat and wear, and prostration is worshipping of Allah, so one should not put his forehead during prostration on that which is worshipped by the people (food and clothing) and that which conceits people."

Wasa'il al-Shi'ah, Vol 3 page 591

The people closest to the Holy Prophet (s) and his Ahlalbayt (as) were very firm in their practice of prostrating on the earth and, in doing so, were following the tradition of their grandfather, the Messenger of Allah (s).

Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq said: "Prostration is not permitted except on the earth and whatever grows from it except on those things that are eaten or on cotton."

When he (Imam Ja'far as Sadiq a.s) was asked whether having one's turban touch the earth instead of the forehead was acceptable, he replied that this was not sufficeint unless the forehead actually touched the earth.

Wasa'il al-Shi'ah, Volume 3 page 592

The Prophet (s) said it was compulsary to prostrate on soil

There are many Prophetic traditions that clearly prove that he (s) also prostrated on earth and ordered his Sahaba to do likewise.

We read in Sunan Abu Dawud, Urdu Edition, page 381, 376:

“The Prophet (s) had the sign of Mud on his forehead and Nose, due to prostration on Mud”

All of the below traditions have been taken from Volume 7 of Kanz ul Ummal from the section on sujood laws/hadiths:

We read in Kanz ul Ummal, Vol 7 Tradition No. 19804

“From Umm Attiya it is narrated that the Salat of one who does not place his nose right on the EARTH is not accepted”

We should also point out that Ali Muttaqi al-Hindi raises no objection to this tradition in Kanz ul Ummal.

We also read:

Ibn Attiya narrates “Verily God does not accept the Salat of One who does not put his Nose right on the EARTH/SOIL”.

Kanz ul Ummal, Volume 7 Hadith 19775

This is second Hadith by Ibn Attiyah (from two different soures as can be seen in prefixes by Al Muttaqi Hindi in Kanz ul Ummal). The first one was mentioned a little above (i.e Tradition No.19804). Both Traditions insist on the Nose to be put RIGHT ON EARTH while the earlier one also stresses this with the word RUB (Masah) of NOSE on the EARTH. Again there is no objection with either of these traditions otherwise Muttaqi Hindi would have quoted as he does with analysis of other hadiths throughout Kanz ul Ummal.

We can see clearly its not a few but a large number of traditions from Ahl ul Sunnah which prove our position of Prostrating on Earth and Masah (Rubbing) of Face parts on it with Tawatur.

In another hadith, again the concept of praying on EARTH/SOIL is mentioned by Al Daylami who narrates from Abdullah ibn Masood, the Sahabi that:

“Verily Allah does not consider/look at the Salat of a person who does not touch his palms on the EARTH/SOIL.”

Online Kanz al Ummal, Vol 7. Tradition No. 19801 - (Cached)

“Bow/Prostrate your Face on EARTH/SOIL Towards Allah”

Kanz ul Ummal Vo.7 Tradition No. 19809

And a similar (though mursal) tradition has been narrated by Abdul Razzaq from Khalid:

“O Suhaib, Bow/Prostrate your Face on EARTH/SOIL Towards Allah”

Kanz ul Ummal Vo.7 Tradition No. 19810

None of these above traditions has been shown to have any problem by anyone in Kanz ul Ummal in terms of authenticity of content or narrators.

Ibn Abbas issued a Fatwa that failing to prostrate on earth made one’s Salat invalid

Furthermore, we read the fatwa of Sahabi Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

"Abdullah Ibn Abbas said: He who doesnt put his nose with his forehead on the Earth/Soil when doing Sajdah (Prostration), his Salat is invalid”

We have taken this from the following Sunni sources

1. Kanz ul Ummal Vol 7, Page 464 (No. 19802)

2. Al Mu'jam al Awsat by Tabarani Vol3, Page 139 (No. 4111)

Al Muttaqi in his Kanz Al Ummal took the above narration from Tabarani which is proven due to the usage of the siglum "Taa Baa" i.e. Tabarani. Immediately after the Hadeeth, the author seeks to allay Sunni fears by stating

“there is Ikhtilaaf on some of the narrators because of their Tashayyi” (Shia leaning or Beliefs).

In response to this we will point out that this is an opinion of Haythami (as quoted from his book Majma al Zawaid). What is interestring is the fact that despite seeking to question it, he then goes on to say

“And its Rijal are most authentic (Mo'thiqoon)".

Haythami does not declare that ALL Sunni scholars believe / consider the chain of narrations in this hadith to be weak on account of Shi’a leaning of certain narrators, rather he clearly says there is ‘difference of opinion’ amongst the scholars and only ‘some of them allege’ that the narrators were Shi’a. On these grounds, the narartion cannot be rejected nor can this opinon be held as the consensus of truthful Ahl ul Sunnah scholars especially when we know how divided they are and have historically issued Fatwas against one another’s positions / opinions and madhab adherence.

We would also like to point out that the above opinion is also not supported or endorsed by Al Muttaqi al Hindi (i.e accusing some narrators of this hadith o fbeing Shi’a) otherwise he would have said so or quoted other sources for giving strength to refute this. Rather he chose to give Haythami's ruling to consolidate his position that this tradition is with a sanad that is thiqah.

Praying on Turbah

Shi’as normally place a Turbah (Sajdagaah in Urdu) made of clay to prostrate on while offering prayers and this act is proven from the Holy Prophet’s Sunnah, there are numerous traditions in the Hadeeth books of Ahl e Sunnah that Holy Prophet (s) used to place a Sajdagaah to prostrate on. We believe that the most humble act is to prostrate on Allah (swt)’s earth, rather than man made cloth. In this regards we find these traditions. The word used in the traditions is ‘Khumrah’ which has been translated as ‘Sajdagaah’ by the Sunni Scholars.

Allah's Apostle used to pray on a Khumra

Allamah Waheed uz-Zaman while commenting on this tradition states in his esteemed commentary on Sahih al Bukhari:

“All the jurists unanimously agree that it is permissible to prostrate on Sajdagaah, but Umer bin Abdul Aziz says that he used to prostrate on the mud which was supposed to be brought for him, and Ibn e Abi Shaybah narrates from Urwah that he considered prostrating on anything else other the Sajdagaah as undesirable.”

Tayseer al-Bari Sharh Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, page 275, published by Taj Company Limited.

Imam Bukhari and Imam Abu Daud have both maintained whole chapters on prostration on clay.

1. Tayseer al-Bari Sharh Bukhari, Volume 1, page 276.

2. Sunan Abi Daud, volume 1, page 291, translated by Maulana Waheed uz-Zaman.

The prostration of Holy Prophet (s) on clay is such a famous act that most of the narrators have mentioned it in their Hadeeth books.

According to Imam Shaukani, a famous Sunni scholar, more than ten Companions of the Prophet (s) have narrated traditions mentioning his prostration on a Khumrah. And he lists all the Sunni sources recording these traditions which include Sahih Muslim, Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Sunan Abu Dawud, Sunan al-Nasa'i and many others.

Nayl al-Autaar, Chapter of Prostration on the Khumrah, volume 2, page 128

In Sahih Tirmidhi, Hadhrath Abbas narrates that the Holy Prophet (s) prostrated on Sajdagaah.

Sahih Tirmidhi, volume 1, page 156, translated by Badee’ uz Zaman, published in Lahore

It is on the basis of these traditions that Medina born Imam Malik said:

“Other then the earth, to prostrate on anything else or botanic herbs or plants is undesirable.”

Urdu translation of Al-Muhalla, volume 3, page 115, by Imam Ibn e Hazm Andalasi, published in Lahore

Meaning of Khumrah

The Traditions that report about Holy Prophet’s (s) prostration spot usually state:

“The Holy Prophet (s) used to prostrate on Khumrah.”

Sunni scholars have defined the term Khumrah as follows:

Dr Mushin Khan in his English translation of Sahih al Bukhari vol. 1, book 8, no. 376 states in paranthesis)] defines Khumrah as:

“A small mat sufficient just for the face and the hands while prostrating during prayers.”

Ibn Athir in his Jami al-'Usul has written:

"Khumra is [like that] upon which the Shi'ah of our time perform their prostrations."

Ibn al-'Athir, Jami' al-Usul, (Cairo, 1969), vol. 5, p. 467

Maulana Waheed Uz Zaman Khan Hyderabadi in “Lughaat Al-hadeeth” said:

“Khumra is the small piece of mat (made of palm leaves), or made up of date-palm leaves on which one can only place his head during each prostration.” A little further he writes that Ibn al-Aseer had said in Jame’ Al Usool, “Khumrah is a prostration spot on which Shiites used to prostrate in our times….Although in our religion it is permissible on a cloth but it’s better to prostrate on soil or mat (palm leaves).”

Lughaat ul Hadeeth, volume 1, Book: Letter khay, page 133, published by Meer Mohammad Kutb Khana, Aaram Bagh, Karachi

Allamah Waheed uz Zaman’s personal practice of prostration on Khumrah and deeming it Sunnah

On the same page while concluding his discussions on using something to prostrate on Maulana Waheed Uz Zaman writes:

“I say that from this tradition, keeping something to prostrate on is lawful and it is incorrect for people to label those who do this as apostates. In accordance with this tradition, I sometimes keep a feather made of palm leaves to prostrate on and I do not care about the taunting and criticism of ignorant people. We should only be concerned with the traditions of the Holy Prophet (s), even if someone labels us as apostates.”

Lughaat ul Hadeeth, Volume 1, Book:Letter ‘Khay’, page 133, published by Meer Mohammad Kutb Khana, Aaram Bagh, Karachi

At another place he writes:

“I often my lay my mat on the floor of the mosque that has cloth spread on it. Some of the people of Ahl’ul Sunnah condemn me unnecessarily for this. They do not understand that we should offer the prayers in a way which is right according to all. This is more cautionary. It is also reported that the Holy Prophet (s), offered prayers on cloth but obligatory prayers cannot be offered on cloth.” The Sahaba report that the Holy Prophet (s) used to prostrate on soil or mat (palm leaves).”

Lughaat ul Hadeeth Volume 1, page 113, Book: Letter Bai, published by Meer Mohammad Kutb Khana, Aaram Bagh, Karachi

The earth was made a place of worship for Rasulullah (s)

We read this tradition in Saheeh al Bukharee, Book on Making Ablutions with Sand or Earth, hadith Volume 1, Book 7, Number 331:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "I have been given five things which were not givento any one else before me.

1. Allah made me victorious by awe, (by His frightening my enemies)for a distance of one month's journey.

2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum, therefore anyone of myfollowers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due.

3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me yet it was not lawfulfor anyone else before me.

4. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection).

5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind.

This narration very clearly says that the earth (the dust and the stones) is the place of prostration. The history of Islam and the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hf) shows that his mosque in Madinah was furnished only with dust although numerous types of rugs and furnishings existed at that time. Because this mosque did not have a carpet or any other type of covering on the floor, when it rained, the floor of the mosque would turn into mud. Still, the Muslims prostrated on the mud and did not put any carpets or rugs down.

We read in Saheeh al Bukharee Volume 1, Book 11, Number 638:

Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri:

A cloud came and it rained till the roof started leaking and in thosedays the roof used to be of the branches of date-palms. Iqama was pronounced and I saw Allah's Apostles prostrating in water and mud and even I saw the mark of mud on his forehead.

Imam Bukhari narrates that the Holy Prophet (pbuh&hf), when he used to do the prayers in his own room, would pray on "khumra" (a solid piece of dirt or a piece of straw.

We read in Saheeh al Bukharee Volume 1, Book 6, Number 329:

Narrated Maimuna:

(the wife of the Prophet) During my menses, I never prayed, but used to sit on the mat beside the mosque of Allah's Apostle. He used to offer the prayer on his sheet and in prostration some of his clothes used to touch me."

The Prophet (s) told his Sahaba not to prostrate on cloth and remove turbans so that forehead touch the ground

Prostration is the way to thank the blessings of Allah [swt] he bestowed on us and the best way is to prostrate on earth/soil. That is the reason Holy Prophet used to aske Sahabah to remove any kind of cloth between the head and the soil so that all the aspects of Sujud shall be completed. There are many Hadeeths according to which Prophet (s) forbade prostrating on cloth (or with turbans) and never did he himself do such a thing.

We read in Hadith books:

“When the Prophet would prostrate he would lift his Amamah (turban) from his forehead”

1. Al Tabaqat al Kubra by Ibn Sa'ad Vol 1 P.352

2. Kanz ul Ummal Vol.7, P.49 (No.17896)

Along the same line we read that Holy Prophet asked a Sahabi to remove his turban during prostration.

Ãóäøó ÑóÓõæáó Çááøóåö ÑóÃóì ÑóÌõáÇð íóÓúÌõÏõ ÈöÌóäúÈöåö ¡ æóÞóÏú ÃóÚúÊóãó Úóáóì ÌóÈúåóÊöåö ¡ ÝóÍóÓóÑó ÑóÓõæáõ Çááøóåö Úóäú ÌóÈúåóÊöåö.

“The Apostle of Allah saw a man prostrate next to Him and his (man’s) forehead was covered, so the Apostle of Allah uncovered his (man’s) forehead”

Sunan al Kubrah by Al Bayhaqi Volume 2 page 151 (No. 2659)

Online Al Isabah by Ibn Hajar al Asqallani Vol. 3, P. 465 (No. 4138) - (Cached)

Usd ul Ghaaba by Ibn al Atheer Volume 3 Page 9

Sa'id Ibn Al Mussayab stated that praying on cloth was Bida’h

Imam of Ahle Sunnah, Jusrit of all Jurists and the most superior among all Tabaeen Saeed bin al Mussayyib had the following views about praying on carpet/cloth. Ibn Sa`ad records from Qatadah:

ÃÎÈÑäÇ ÞÊÇÏÉ ÞÇá ÓÃáÊ ÓÚíÏ Èä ÇáãÓíÈ Úä ÇáÕáÇÉ Úáì ÇáØäÝÓÉ ÝÞÇá ãÍÏË

“I asked Sa'id Ibn Al Mussayyib about praying on carpets. He said 'It is something new'.”

Online Tabaqat al Kubra by Ibn Sa`ad, Vol 5 - (Cached)

In the Urdu version of Tabaqat al Kubra we read:

“Narrated from Qatadah that when Sa'id Ibn Al Mussayyib was asked about praying on cloth, He said: 'It is Bidah’.”

Tabaqat Ibn Sa`ad (Urdu), Vol 3 Part 5 page 160 (published by Daarul Ishaat Karachi)

Sahabi Abdullah Ibn Masud never prostrated other than on soil

Those ignorant Nasibis who call Shia innovators and deviated for keeping a Sagdagah with them for prostration during prayers shall read about the practice of a great Sahabi Abdullah Ibn Masud who never prared on anything other than soil. We read the testimony of another Sahabi Abu Ubaidah recorded by Al Haythami in his Majma' al-Zawa'id by, Volume 2 page 57:

“Abu Ubaidah narrates that the companion Ibn Mas'ud never prayed or prostrated except on the soil”

Online Majma' al-Zawa'id, Volume 2 Hadith 2272 - (Cached)

Prominent Tabi`e Masruq ibn al-Ajda' used to keep a brick with him for prostration

Masruq ibn al-Ajda a prominent tabi'i and a faithful jurist and a student of Sahabi 'Abdullah ibn Mas'ud made for himself a tablet and used it to prostrate on, taking it with him on his trips especially when he boarded ships. Ibn Sa'ad in his al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, Volume 6 page 53 records:

“Muhammad narrates that Masruq used to keep a raw brick with him and used to prostrate on in it during journey on boats”

Tabaqat Ibn Sa`ad (Urdu), Vol 3 page 493 published by Daarul Isha`at Karachi

This reference can also be read on the online version of Tabaqat al Kubra by Ibn Sa`d at

http://www.al-eman.com/Islamlib/viewchp.as...&CID=73#s76 - (Cached)

Sahabi Jabir bin Abdullah would prostrate on pebbles although their being hot due to extreme heat

The enourous heat did not stop the famous companion of Holy Prophet Jabir bin Abdullah from prostrating on hot pebbles. We read in the books of Hadeeth:

“Jabir Ibn Abdullah reported : We were praying with Messenger of Allah at noon (dhuher prayer) so I held pebbles in my palm to make it cold then switch it to my other palm and when I prostrate I put them down for my forehead”

Sunan al-Nisa'i, Volume 2 page 204. (Online Link Hadith No. 1089) - (Cached)

Sunan al-Bayhaqi Volume 1 page 439

Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Volume 3 page 327. (Online Link) - (Cached)

Ibn Taymeeya’s Fatwa that prayer on a mat is an innovation, and people should pray on earth

Imam of the Nasibis Ibn Taymeeya issued this edict in Majmoo Al Fatawa:

“….And it was asked from him about the Prostration on a Prayer Mat / carpet in the Mosque and Prayer (performing of Salat) on it: Is it an act of Innovation (Bid'ah) or Not?

So He replied positively:

Praise be to the Lord of the Worlds, as for the Salat on the prayer mats on which the Salat Performer prays, that is NOT from the Sunnah of the SALAF of Muhaajireen or Ansar and Nor from the Sunnah of Tabi'een after them; on whom is the blessing/favor of Allah on the promise of the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh&f) BUT INFACT all of these people PRAYED in the MOSQUE on SOIL. Not even One of them ever took a PRAYER MAT / SUJJADAH / Ja e Namaz / CARPET to pray on for their Salat. And it is narrated from Abdul Rahman ibn Mahdi:

When the CARPETS/SUJJADAH/PRAYER MATS/ Ja-e-Namaz (first) came to Madinah then Malik ordained (passed a hukm) about confiscating them (or forbade people from using them) and then it was said to him, that is Abdulrahman ibn Mahdi

So He said: And Truly Know! that verily the CARPET / PRAYER MAT / JAA E NAMAZ in OUR mosque is a BI'DAH (Innovation)

and (this is) in the Sahih (tradition) from Abi Sa'eed al Khudri in the Tradition of Eitikaaf al Nabi (s)”

Mujmoo al Fatawa by Ibn Taymeeya Volume 22 page163

Online Link: http://arabic.islamicweb.com/Books/taimiya...22&page=163 - (Cached)

Muhaddith Shah Abul Aziz Dehalvi’s views about prostratring on mud

Imam of Ahle Sunnah Muhaddith Shah Abdul Aziz Dehalwi offers following views regarding prostration on mund in his anti- Shia book:

“..The reply to this accusation is that when do the Ahle-Sunnah stay away from prostrating on clay? Infact the Sunnis even deem it permissible to prostrate on cloth and leather. It is in known narrations that before apostasy, Satan had not left any place in the heavens and the earth where he had not prostrated, but when it refused to prostrate in front of Adam [khaki] who was in the form of flesh, all his prostrations became unacceptable, so it is known that a person who only prostrates on mud, and does not prostrate on things that are made of mud and have changed shape, his/her situation will be the same that is of Satan.”

Tohfa Athna Ashriya (Urdu), pages 97-98, published in Karachi.

end quote.

[Rafidi2020]

i think iam becoming anti sunni, I CANT HANDLE IT ANYMORE :wacko: :realangery:

[wonderer]

Salaam

i guess the other bros already said it all

just one more thing bowing on a turbah stimulates the negative energy coz when ur forhead is connected 2 it ur negative energy is being taken & that doesnt happen when u bow on carbet

i wish i had the source!

btw rafedhy u saw nothing pay saudi a visit & u'll truly hate them!

[The Green Knight]

Turbah is sacred dust and all obedient beings and angels long before human beings appeared on this Earth did not pray on fancy fabric mats with pictures of a mosque on it, but rather they just prostrated their foreheads into the ground, be it dust or mud, in utter humility and submission to Allah s.w.t. He created Adam (as) from the most sacred dust on Earth which was taken from the place of Ka'bah. Dust to dust.

Now, prostrating on the purest of dust is perfectly fine. It's infinitely better than your Imam Bukhari teaching to prostrate between the legs of a woman.

Volume 1, Book 9, Number 498:

Narrated 'Aisha:

It is not good that you people have made us (women) equal to dogs and donkeys. No doubt I saw Allah's Apostle praying while I used to lie between him and the Qibla and when he wanted to prostrate, he pushed my legs and I withdrew them.

(Astaghfirullah)

Shame on you GhulamShaqii.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Ibrahim Nakhaee

[Guest]

(bismillah)

Such nonsense and not even worth the replies given to it.

[GhulamNabi]

I had checked from a my Shia friend today and he told me that "Turbah, or "muhur" as we call it in our country is not an idol that shias prostrate to. Shah Sahib told me that Shia just believe that prostration should be done on soil. And since the place where Imam Hussain was killed and buried is more sacred than a common place, they try to atribute these turbahs to that place. They believe in tabarruk, which is obviously not shirk. It's like all Muslims believe that the place where Allah's Messenger lie now, is the most sacred place on Earth.

And according to Muslims praying in places like Makkah, Madina and Quds has more ajr than common places. So, shia makes analogy and they believe that praying on a turbah taken from Imam Hussain's shrine brings more value to salah. It's similar to tabarruk.

Shah Sahib also told me that it's obviously bidah and a reason that can lead one to major shirk. But it's not a major shirk. We should be fair! We can not say that they become like pagans who worship graves. And Allah knows best!

[Hassan2jz]

Turbah is sacred dust and all obedient beings and angels long before human beings appeared on this Earth did not pray on fancy fabric mats with pictures of a mosque on it, but rather they just prostrated their foreheads into the ground, be it dust or mud, in utter humility and submission to Allah s.w.t. He created Adam (as) from the most sacred dust on Earth which was taken from the place of Ka'bah. Dust to dust.

Now, prostrating on the purest of dust is perfectly fine. It's infinitely better than your Imam Bukhari teaching to prostrate between the legs of a woman.

(Astaghfirullah)

Shame on you GhulamShaqii.

Is that a real hadith??

[Akbar673]

i think iam becoming anti sunni, I CANT HANDLE IT ANYMORE :wacko: :realangery:

Don't be Anti-Sunni, be Anti-Salafi/Wahabbi. Educated Non-Wahabbi/Salafi Sunnis are more like us than we know.

[GhulamNabi]

Is that a real hadith??

I dont know. How come i know that this Hadith is true or false? Do you know this Hadith is true?

As Muslims, we believe in the absolute authority of the Quran. It is the highest source of legislation; in fact, it is the very speech of Allah. The Quran refers to the Prophet’s wives as the Ahlel Bayt. Allah Almighty Himself negates all those who dare argue that Aisha (ÑÖøì Çááå ÚäåÇ) and Hafsa (ÑÖøì Çááå ÚäåÇ) are not part of the Ahlel Bayt.

The Quran specifically refers to the wives of the Prophet as Ahlel Bayt in the following verse:

“O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other of the women; If you will be on your guard, then be not soft in your speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; and speak a good word. And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, you Ahlel Bayt (People of the House), and to make you pure and spotless.” (Quran, 33:32-33)

The transliteration reads:

“Ya nisa al-nabiyi lastuna kahadin mina alnisa-i ini itaqaytuna fala takhdaAAna bialqawli fayatmaAAa allathee fee qalbihi maradun waqulna qawlan maAAroofan Waqarna fee buyootikunna wala tabarrajna tabarruja aljahiliyyati al-oola waaqimna alssalata waateena alzzakata waatiAAna Allaha warasoolahu innama yureedu Allahu liyuthhiba AAankumu alrrijsa Ahlul Bayt-i wayutahhirakum tatheeran” (Quran, 33:32-33)

There is in fact not a single verse in the Quran which identifies Ali (ÑÖøì Çááå Úäå), Fatima (ÑÖøì Çááå ÚäåÇ), Hasan (ÑÖøì Çááå Úäå), or Hussain (ÑÖøì Çááå Úäå) as the Ahlel Bayt. Not a single verse in the Quran mentions the 12 Infallible Imams of the Shia, let alone calling them Ahlel Bayt. The term “Ahlel Bayt” has been used twice in the Quran, and both times it is used to refer to the wives. And a similar term, Ahli Baytin is used in the Quran to refer to the wife of Imran (mother of Moses). And yet, not a single time is the word “Ahlel Bayt” used in the Quran for Ali (ÑÖøì Çááå Úäå), Fatima (ÑÖøì Çááå ÚäåÇ), Hasan (ÑÖøì Çááå Úäå), or Hussain (ÑÖøì Çááå Úäå). Nowhere does the Quran say “O cousin of the Prophet” but rather the Quran says “O wives of the Prophet.” If following the Ahlel Bayt is the fundamental of belief as the Shia Ayatollahs claim, then why is it that the Quran never once mentions Ali (ÑÖøì Çááå Úäå) let alone mentioning him as the Ahlel Bayt? If we ask our Shia brothers to produce verses in the Quran about the Ahlel Bayt, they will be dissapointed to find that these verses are all in relation to the Prophet’s wives.

Allah, his Prophet (pbuh) & Ahlel Bayt (wives of Prophet Muhammad) can only confirm that this Hadith is true or false.

[Hassan2jz]

Ghulam bhai, I meant, if I look up that reference, will I find that hadith?

Isn't Bukhari meant to be one of the most authentic Sunni hadith books?

Do you think it is Sahih?

In terms of the wives being part of the Ahlul-Bayt, Shia disagree. :)

Edited April 8, 2009 by Hassan2jz

[GhulamNabi]

Ghulam bhai, I meant, if I look up that reference, will I find that hadith?

Isn't Bukhari meant to be one of the most authentic Sunni hadith books?

Do you think it is Sahih?

In terms of the wives being part of the Ahlul-Bayt, Shia disagree. :)

My Brother: I dont know Sahih Bukhari is correct or wrong. Any Hadith which is closed to Quran we all (I, U & whole Muslim Ummah) accept it. Any Hadith which is different from Quran should be asked from Ulemas. But Quran is true. All Muslims (Sunni, Shia, Wahhabi) follow Quran.

Dear What do you mean by Shia disagree? Do you want to say Shia dont belive in the ayat of Quran I mentioned in my last reply? I dont think so that any Shai dont belive in any comma or word of Quran. i know Shia's very well. They read Quran and obey Quran. Dont try to change the topic. Cant we all Muslim become brother and accept Quran as our Quaid in this difficult time???

We Sunni respect all Imams, Cant Shia start respecting our beloved ones???

[Hassan2jz]

My Brother: I dont know Sahih Bukhari is correct or wrong. Any Hadith which is closed to Quran we all (I, U & whole Muslim Ummah) accept it. Any Hadith which is different from Quran should be asked from Ulemas. But Quran is true. All Muslims (Sunni, Shia, Wahhabi) follow Quran.

Dear What do you mean by Shia disagree? Do you want to say Shia dont belive in the ayat of Quran I mentioned in my last reply? I dont think so that any Shai dont belive in any comma or word of Quran. i know Shia's very well. They read Quran and obey Quran. Dont try to change the topic. Cant we all Muslim become brother and accept Quran as our Quaid in this difficult time???

We Sunni respect all Imams, Cant Shia start respecting our beloved ones???

I think our interpretation of the Quran and therefore the definition of ahlul-bayt is different.

I agree with hadith, in that a hadith is either right or wrong, regardless of what it is written.

In terms of respecting the beloved ones, in respect of your beliefs I would not make any disrespect. That said, nor would I respect them.

[toocoool66]

(bismillah)

(salam)

Book 031, Number 5955:

'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one norning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said: Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)

from sahih muslim

and please note that the word is

Ãóåúáó ÇáúÈóíúÊö

this is ism-e-ma'rifa ,and not at all ism-e-nakra

that is evident from the AL before bait (it is not ahle bait , but ahl ul bait)

that is Allah is not mentioning all people of house

rather talking of some special ones ,

so better not play with the translations

thanks

[GhulamNabi]

I think our interpretation of the Quran and therefore the definition of ahlul-bayt is different.

I agree with hadith, in that a hadith is either right or wrong, regardless of what it is written.

In terms of respecting the beloved ones, in respect of your beliefs I would not make any disrespect. That said, nor would I respect them.

My Brother Hassan you want to say that you will not respect son of law of Imam Ali???Ali (ÑÖøì Çááå Úäå) Gave His Daughter to Umar (ÑÖøì Çááå Úäå). Evidence of this comes from a Shia Hadith, narrated in the esteemed Shia work, “Tadheeb al-Ahkam” (Vol.2, p.380) in Chapter “Meeras”:

“Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (as) said: ‘Umm Kulthoom bint Ali and her son Zayd bin Umar both died at the same time. It was not possible to ascertain who had died first. They did not inherit from one another and their funeral prayers were read at the same time.”

2nd Shia Hadith: “Abu Abdullah (a.s) said about the marriage of Umm Kulthoom: “That was the vagina that we were forced to give.” (narrated in Furoo al-Kafi, vol.6, p.117 )

3rd Shia Hadith: Humayd ibn Ziyad—Ibn Sama‘ah—Muhammad ibn Ziyad—Abdullah ibn Sinan—Muawiyyah ibn ‘Ammar—Imam Jafar as-Sadiq: “I asked him about a woman whose husband died: ‘Should she spend her ‘iddah in her house, or where she wants to?’ He [the Imam] replied, ‘Where she wants to. When Umar died, Ali came and took Umm Kulthoom to his house.’” (narrated in Furoo al-Kafi, vol.6, p.117)

Among the Shia sources that narrate the fact of this marriage from Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (ÑÖøì Çááå Úäå) with the statement “Umm Kulthum bint Ali ibn Abi Talib died at the same time as her son Zayd ibn Umar ibn al-Khattab” and the narration from Muhammad ibn al-Hasan that “Umar ibn al-Khattab married Umm Kulthum bint Ali with a dowry of 40,000 dirhams” are the following:

1- Agha Burzug al-Tahrani’s al-Dhari`a (5:184).

2- Ali ibn Muhammad al-`Alawi’s al-Mujdi fi Ansab al-Talibiyyin (p. 17).

3- Al-Fadil al-Hindi’s Kashf al-Litham (2:312).

4- Al-Hurr al-`Amili’s Wasa’il al-Shi`a Al al-Bayt (15:19, 17:594, 21:263, 26:314).

5- Muhammad ibn Habib al-Baghdadi’s al-Munammaq fi Akhbar Quraysh (p. 301).

6- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Ardabili’s Majma` al-Fa’ida (11:530).

7- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Naraqi’s Mustanad al-Shi`a (19:452).

8- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Sabzawari’s Kifayat al-Ahkam (p. 307).

9- Al-Sayyid Muhammad Sadiq al-Rawhani’s Fiqh al-Sadiq (24:496).

10- Al-Shahid al-Thani’s Masalik al-Afham (13:270).

11- Al-Shaykh al-Amini’s al-Ghadir (6:136-137).

12- Al-Shaykh al-Tusi’s al-Mabsut (4:272).

13- Tahdhib al-Ahkam (9:362-363).

14- Al-Shaykh al-Jawahiri’s Jawahir al-Kalam (39:308).

Did Umar (ÑÖøì Çááå Úäå) Force Ali (ÑÖøì Çááå Úäå) to Give His Daughter?

[toocoool66]

(bismillah)

(salam)

brother why are you changing topics so often

i mean to say if this is a thread regarding turbah , better discuss turbah

sometimes you start off with your interpretation of ahlulbait , sometimes you jump to this topic

let me tell you what

all your points have already been discussed a number of times

so start a thread and discuss that particular topic in that thread , rather then changing topics from the original one

better make another thread for this topic

what do you have to say?

[GhulamNabi]

(bismillah)

(salam)

brother why are you changing topics so often

i mean to say if this is a thread regarding turbah , better discuss turbah

sometimes you start off with your interpretation of ahlulbait , sometimes you jump to this topic

let me tell you what

all your points have already been discussed a number of times

so start a thread and discuss that particular topic in that thread , rather then changing topics from the original one

better make another thread for this topic

what do you have to say?

Thanks for the advice.

Are you coming to the new topic Imam Mahdi?

[Hassan2jz]

(bismillah)

(salam)

brother why are you changing topics so often

i mean to say if this is a thread regarding turbah , better discuss turbah

sometimes you start off with your interpretation of ahlulbait , sometimes you jump to this topic

let me tell you what

all your points have already been discussed a number of times

so start a thread and discuss that particular topic in that thread , rather then changing topics from the original one

better make another thread for this topic

what do you have to say?

Brother can you elaborate on his post though?

Is is true, if so, what were the circumstances of this marriage?

WaSalaam.

[Jondab_Azdi]

Is is true, if so, what were the circumstances of this marriage?

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1769601

Edited April 8, 2009 by Jondab_Azdi

[Hassan2jz]

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1769601

Jazaks!

That clears it up very well.

[wayfarer.]

Is is true, if so, what were the circumstances of this marriage?

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1792491

So many times I hear Sunni’s come forth and say that Umm Kulthum (as) daughter of Imam Ali (as) was married to Omar. Wrong!!! Let me set the record straight now, incase you were misinformed by your politician of a Sheikh.

She was NOT married to him, her husband was Aun bin Ja’far, who was the son of Imam Ali’s (as) brother. Mathematically it can be proven that she was not married to Omar. According to the politicians, Umm Kulthum and Omar ibn al-Khattab were married in the year 17 Hijri, when Umm Kulthum was 4 or 5 years old. That means she would have been born around the year 12 or 13 Hijri. So you mean Imam Ali (as) allowed his daughter to marry at 4 or 5 years old? Wow, anything to try to justify their idols.

Anyways, now we expose these liars. If the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) died in the year 11 Hijri, and Fatimah al-Zahra (as) died 6 months later, how in the world could Umm Kuthum (as) have been born after the death of her Mother (as) Even Sahih Bukhari confirms she died 6 months later. Sahih Bukhari:Volume:5 Book:59 Hadith:546, not to mention its also the hadith about Abu Bakr stealing her land that Allah s.w.t gave to her. Quran: Surah:17 verse:26

Next they mark her (as) death in 50 Hijri, but how is that possible when she was present in Karbala when Imam Hussein (as) was martyred in the year 61 Hijri. Yes, she remarried her cousin Abdullah ibn Jafar ibn Abu Talib, after the death of her sister Zainab (as), who was married to him before her. But that’s it, that is the only two times she married so what the are these politicians talking about. So just who did Omar marry……… Umm Kalthum bint Abu bakr. Let me explain so it all makes sense.

Omar did not just have one wife named umm Kulthum, he had a total of FIVE wives by that name.

Umm Kulthum bint Jarwila Khizima, Umm Kulthum bint Uqba, Umm Kulthum bint Rahab, Umm Kulthum bint Asim, and then finally Umm Kulthum bint Abu Bakr.

She was born after the death of her father in the year 13 hijri, her mother is Asma binte Umays. She was pregnant with her when Abu Bakr died. They also had one more child before her, guess who, Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr--->A true companion of Imam Ali (as). So just how did she get the title bint Ali. If you clicked on her mothers name, you would have read a brief bio on her and put two and two together, but I will explain it anyway’s.

Asma bint Umays Married Imam Ali (as) after the death of Abu bakr. Imam Ali (as) loved Muhammad ibn Abu bakr very much. He married his mother shortly to take him in as his own. Son naturally Imam Ali(as) moved them into his home. Now if you do the math that was done earlier on this Umm Kulthum, it works out according to the Sunni hadith.

Also note: Omar did not go to Imam Ali(as) to ask for her hand but he sent word to Aisha, her older sister, and she accepted. So in conclusion Umm Kulthum as.gif bint Imam Ali as.gif did NOT marry Omar. Thank you.

Ps. For you hypocrites that challenge this I have saved your Sunni hadith that prove this truth. I did not incorporate a lot of these references you can have a little faith I could be wrong or lying, so then you would question it and then i would drop them on you.

As Imam Ali (as)would say “Peace be upon those who deserve it”

[toocoool66]

(bismillah)

(salam)

Brother can you elaborate on his post though?

Is is true, if so, what were the circumstances of this marriage?

if you wish to read, better read this article

marraige of umm-e-kulthum

[GhulamNabi]

(bismillah)

(salam)

if you wish to read, better read this article

marraige of umm-e-kulthum

Dear Freind I just visited the site you mentioned http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/umm...um/en/index.php. I am sorry to say that it was just a waste of time and nothing else. Answering-Ansar’s article is of a very unprofessional nature, defies the Shia scholarship on many issues, and is of very poor quality overall. To sum it up: it may be rebuttal, but I don’t think anyone who actually reads it would think it worthwhile to reference.

Umm Kulthoom’s marriage was confirmed by Imam Al-Kulayni. Among the Shia sources that narrate the fact of this marriage from Imam Muhammad al-Baqir with the statement “Umm Kulthum bint Ali ibn Abi Talib died at the same time as her son Zayd ibn Umar ibn al-Khattab” and the narration from Muhammad ibn al-Hasan that “Umar ibn al-Khattab married Umm Kulthum bint Ali with a dowry of 40,000 dirhams” are the following:

1- Agha Burzug al-Tahrani’s al-Dhari`a (5:184).

2- Ali ibn Muhammad al-`Alawi’s al-Mujdi fi Ansab al-Talibiyyin (p. 17).

3- Al-Fadil al-Hindi’s Kashf al-Litham (2:312).

4- Al-Hurr al-`Amili’s Wasa’il al-Shi`a Al al-Bayt (15:19, 17:594, 21:263, 26:314).

5- Muhammad ibn Habib al-Baghdadi’s al-Munammaq fi Akhbar Quraysh (p. 301).

6- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Ardabili’s Majma` al-Fa’ida (11:530).

7- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Naraqi’s Mustanad al-Shi`a (19:452).

8- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Sabzawari’s Kifayat al-Ahkam (p. 307).

9- Al-Sayyid Muhammad Sadiq al-Rawhani’s Fiqh al-Sadiq (24:496).

10- Al-Shahid al-Thani’s Masalik al-Afham (13:270).

11- Al-Shaykh al-Amini’s al-Ghadir (6:136-137).

12- Al-Shaykh al-Tusi’s al-Mabsut (4:272).

13- Tahdhib al-Ahkam (9:362-363).

14- Al-Shaykh al-Jawahiri’s Jawahir al-Kalam (39:308).

How is it that the Shia propagandists will reject the Shia heavyweights and instead accept the lightweight Answering-Ansar, who are neither religious scholars nor are they historians?

What the Answering-Ansar team failed to address was that why did all of these classical Shia scholars hold the opinion that this marriage took place, and that it was only after so many centuries that the opinion suddenly switched?

[toocoool66]

(bismillah)

(salam)

ok listen boy

if you are so interested make another thread regarding this marriage and i bet you even there you would run from the main topic , which you do

you would continue running , and this is old habit of sunnis

they love running away , may be it reminds them of something

and if you think answering ansar are wrong

then gather some guts and write an arictle in response to them which even other nasibi site could not do

but remember

this thread was regarding turbah , right

so do not run from the main topic