Palestine Conflict [Ambassador speaks]

[Haji 2003]

19 hours ago, Northwest said:

Of course, for certain reasons—immigration and multiculturalism, for instance—BIPOC and Muslims tend to selectively ignore this and side with the liberal elite as voting blocs. It’s a poisonous arrangement that also undermines the claim that the West is “racist” and “anti-Islamic.” After all, if the Western elite were so xenophobic it would not be promoting the free movement of people and goods so much. The headlines are a case in point:

I thought I should come back to this (though it is off-topic for the thread).

1. The demographic crisis is real. In the UK there is a real shortage of skilled people, particularly in lower paid professions. Importing people from overseas is the easiest solution.
2. A good proportion of the UKs Brexit vote was due to the indigenous population not wanting Eastern European migration and definitely wanting to exclude the horde of Turks who might enter if Turkey were to join the EU.

 

[Northwest]

23 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

I don't agree that both groups are the same when one group (Trump) changes the status quo and the other simply maintains whatever they inherit (Biden). I agree that the Democrats are Zionists (they are proud to proclaim themselves as such), but the nature of their help has been qualitatively different.

Obama did supply vast quantities of arms to Israel, but that hardly changed the status quo in the same way as changing the location of the American embassy. Moreover his oversight of the JCPOA was fought tooth and nail with Netanyahu - it was not window dressing as you claim.

@Haji 2003

Moving the embassy to Jerusalem is merely symbolic. It does nothing to alter the correlation of forces, while arms sales and expanded settlements, to not mention economic aid, do. On these grounds Israel has de facto controlled Jerusalem and the West Bank since 1967. It is Israeli weaponry and settler-colonialism (ongoing since Balfour 1917), backed up by Western aid, that truly threatens the Palestinians, not some symbolic PR move. Given Biden’s pro-Zionist record, reversing Trump’s decision on Jerusalem would have cost him nothing, nor would it have seriously endangered the Israeli state. So the fact that he did nothing to reverse Trump’s move signifies that he positively approves of Trump, and by extension Netanyahu, even on this symbolic count.

As far as the JCPOA is concerned: it has served as the liberals and Democrats’ “good cop” to the Republicans’ and right-wingers “bad cop.” The JCPOA was always a ruse, jointly run by the Western liberals and Iranian reformists, in order to sabotage Iranian sovereignty from within. The JCPOA allowed the West and Israel to covertly sabotage the Iranian economy, including civilian nuclear projects, on the pretext of halting spurious WMD activities. It was and is a front for anti-Iran espionage and even terrorism, e.g., Stuxnet, assassination, etc. Obama himself even admitted on numerous occasions that JCPOA was never an alternative to Western/Israeli military action against Iran. In other words, it did not foreclose the prospect of “kinetic” moves vs. the Iranian government.

So the JCPOA was always a way for the liberal and right-wing Zionists to feign disagreement while luring or tricking the Iranians. It was always convenient for both wings, which agree 110% on aims but have some minor differences about short-term means. The liberals (e.g., the Democratic Establishment) could use JCPOA to argue that they were “moderates” compared to the right-wingers and the best option for the Iranians, while the right-wingers (e.g., Netanyahu/Likud, the GOP) could always push the Overton window by claiming that the liberals’ efforts at negotiation, flattery, infiltration, etc. were insincere, ineffective, and weak. Yet in the end, those “vast quantities of arms” that Obama gifted Netanyahu will make all the difference in a future military conflict between the West/Israel and Iran.

To wit: the JCPOA was/is coercive “diplomacy” and was slated for reversion to plain militarism in case of failure.

 

[Haji 2003]

Here's an example of 'conservatives' impact on the ME:

“General Wesley Clark:

Quote

Because I had been through the Pentagon right after 9/11. About ten days after 9/11, I went through the Pentagon and I saw Secretary Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz. I went downstairs just to say hello to some of the people on the Joint Staff who used to work for me, and one of the generals called me in. He said, "Sir, you've got to come in and talk to me a second." I said, "Well, you're too busy." He said, "No, no." He says, "We've made the decision we're going to war with Iraq." This was on or about the 20th of September. I said, "We're going to war with Iraq? Why?" He said, "I don't know." He said, "I guess they don't know what else to do." So I said, "Well, did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?" He said, "No, no." He says, "There's nothing new that way. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq." He said, "I guess it's like we don't know what to do about terrorists, but we've got a good military and we can take down governments." And he said, "I guess if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail."

“So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, "Are we still going to war with Iraq?" And he said, "Oh, it's worse than that." He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, "I just got this down from upstairs" -- meaning the Secretary of Defense's office -- "today." And he said, "This is a memo that describes how we're going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran." I said, "Is it classified?" He said, "Yes, sir." I said, "Well, don't show it to me." And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, "You remember that?" He said, "Sir, I didn't show you that memo! I didn't show it to you!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8YtF76s-yM

[Northwest]

43 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

Here's an example of 'conservatives' impact on the ME:

“General Wesley Clark:

 

^ I already offered evidence that the liberals and right-wingers espouse the same agenda in the MENA/Israel.

[Haji 2003]

49 minutes ago, Northwest said:

Moving the embassy to Jerusalem is merely symbolic. It does nothing to alter the correlation of forces, while arms sales and expanded settlements, to not mention economic aid, do.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

I don't think American arms sales to Israel make any difference, because ultimately the US is a guarantor of Israeli security, whether that means selling arms now or just shipping them over at the time of any conflict or indeed having American boots on the ground in the event of any real threat.

As for the embassy move, I think it is more than symbolic. It's effectively the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of a Jewish state pre-empts issues that were supposed to be discussed.

[Haji 2003]

On 1/16/2023 at 4:48 PM, Northwest said:

After all, if the Western elite were so xenophobic it would not be promoting the free movement of people and goods so much.

I think xenophobia can co-exist with the promotion of the free movement of people. The new world slavers would be a prime example.

The following blogpost of mine provides an example you may wish to comment on.

 

[علوي]

Sudan on its way to joining the Abraham Accords

Quote

Sudan is on its way to officially signing the Abraham Accords, Kan 11 News reported on Wednesday.

According to the report, the issue came up during the meetings of US Secretary of State Antony Blinken with the entire political elite in Israel.

Sudan became the third Arab country to normalize ties with Israel as part of the Abraham Accords brokered by the Trump administration in October of 2020, following the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain.
...
[N]o steps for full normalization between Israel and Sudan have taken place as of yet, and the only known contacts between the sides have been in the form of reports of Israeli delegations secretly visiting Sudan.

According to Wednesday’s report, Sudan negotiated with the United States on the issue and it now appears that the issue is on the verge of being solved, and it is expected to officially join the accords.

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/366813

[Haji 2003]

 

[Haji 2003]

By sheer coincidence the FT publishes a hit piece on Barcelona

https://www.ft.com/content/18f0ca8c-607b-4633-a83f-e99f71a046e8

[Haji 2003]

 

[Haji 2003]

Odd lack of reporting

The FT has this story, which seems to be quite a significant development in the overall scheme of things.

 

But the BBC has nothing:

 

[Haji 2003]

In response to the killing of two settlers

[Haji 2003]

Religious coercion?

I've always felt that there is at least some internal consistency in the religious Zionist idea that Israel should favour religiously based laws rather than secular ones.

After all if you believe that you should have the land because God gave it to you, it's a bit rich to then say you want to run it based on secular laws.

We are headed towards 'religious coercion' and when we do, the US will have a headache.

 

Quote

Many Israelis, however, worry the religious and ultranationalists in government could drive an agenda that will affect myriad aspects of their society, from the justice system to education. Another of Netanyahu’s appointments that triggered an outcry was that of Avi Maoz — another ultranationalist known for his virulent anti-gay views — as head of a body promoting Jewish identity. The position grants him powers over some school extracurricular activities. “There is definitely fear that there’s going to be religious coercion,” says an opposition figure, who asked not to be named. “Religious coercion will turn this country upside down, it will light up liberal Israel.”

https://www.ft.com/content/05f15936-882e-4a4f-a7c4-96870cc39a3e

[Haji 2003]

What happens when a group of people can do whatever they like without any criticism

 

[Haji 2003]

Ilan Pappe

 

[Haji 2003]

UN Rapporteur

 

[Haji 2003]

Surely this falls foul of the IHRA definition of anti-semitism?

Quote

Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.

https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definitions-charters/working-definition-antisemitism

@Northwest any thoughts?

 

[Haji 2003]

Woman, life, freedom

From the World Council of Churches

Quote

 

Women and children bear the brunt of the inequity. 

As of January 2020 there were four public daycare facilities for 40,000 kids in East Jerusalem [the Muslim part], as opposed to West Jerusalem [the Jewish part], where there are 118 public daycare facilities for 72,000 kids.

 

https://www.oikoumene.org/news/in-east-jerusalem-people-need-to-understand-what-happens-when-settlements-are-built

[Haji 2003]

 

 

[Haji 2003]

 

Quote

The Israeli Law Professors’ Forum for Democracy, an ad hoc and voluntary group of experts on Israeli law and specifically Israeli public law, expresses its grave concern over the apparent intention to abolish the independence of the judiciary, to subordinate it to the government and to the partisan political considerations of the executive branch, to undermine the independent status of the attorney general and civil service legal counsels, and to violate human rights. In this paper we examine the implications of the agreement subordinating the Civil Administration to the Additional Minister in the Ministry of Defense.

https://7c4142d1-732b-4358-bdc3-d62bbc38a9ad.usrfiles.com/ugd/dc9a29_1581be83b9564514a2622bdf106a45f4.pdf

And ...

Quote

 

The agreement is an overt and formal measure that gives validity to claims that Israel’s practices constitute apartheid, which is prohibited under international law.

 

 

[Haji 2003]

Those videos of Arabs supporting the occupation ...

 

[Haji 2003]

Which other leaders are speaking out?

 

[علوي]

 

[Hameedeh]

21 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Which other leaders are speaking out?

 

CNN reported that Israeli police removed hundreds of Palestinians from the mosque and arrested them, then a second attack took place on Wednesday. 

[Haji 2003]

 

 

[Haji 2003]

Why Only a Hebrew University?: The Tale of the Arab University in Mandatory Jerusalem

Quote

This article asks, why was there no Arab university in Mandatory Palestine (while there were two Jewish universities). Apparently, the colonial mentality of the British authorities who deemed the Palestinians yet another colonized people who had to be oppressed, while regarding the Zionist settlers as fellow colonialists, feared that such a university would enhance the Palestinian national movement. At the same time, Zionist pressure, British anti-Arab racism, and lack of resources also combined to undermine the emergence of a proper Palestinian higher education system. Nonetheless, educators, intellectuals and some politicians of the Palestinian community did not give up on the idea. They used several teachers' colleges to provide high quality university-level studies, the most notable being the Arab College (al-Kulliyya al-‘Arabiyya) whose graduates went on to pursue careers in universities in the region and abroad. There was also an attempt by the mufti, Hajj Amin al-Husayni, with the help of donations from abroad, to build an Islamic, but open to all, university throughout the 1930s. This initiative was foiled by the British Mandate government despite the willingness both in the Arab and Muslim worlds to support it.

https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1653471

[Haji 2003]

https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1645173438145875970

[Haji 2003]

Missing bit of detail

Of the two Israeli women shot by Palestinians, the BBC reports that:

Quote

Maia and Rina Dee were shot as their drove from their home in the settlement of Efrat to Tiberias

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65224751

 

The Guardian adds the following bit of detail that the BBC has omitted:

Quote

The family live in the West Bank settlement Efrat, near the Palestinian city of Bethlehem ... Settlements in the occupied territories are considered illegal under international law, which Israel disputes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/09/funeral-takes-place-for-british-israeli-sisters-killed-in-west-bank

[Haji 2003]

Smotrich's Plan

It's a natural conclusion to what started in 1947.

 

Quote

The "two-state" model has led Israel to a dead end. It has brought a sense of despair of ending the conflict, and a turn to "managing" it as a cruel and eternal decree of fate. The alternative to this is a new readiness of Israeli society to win the conflict, rather than merely managing it—a victory founded on the understanding that there is no room in the Land of Israel for two conflicting national movements.

https://hashiloach.org.il/israels-decisive-plan/

 

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This stage will be realized via a political-legal act of imposing sovereignty on all Judea and Samaria, 

Not a surprise.

 

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The self-government of the Arabs of Judea and Samaria will be divided into six municipal governmental regions wherein representatives will be elected in democratic elections: Hebron, Bethlehem, Ramallah, Jericho, Nablus, and Jenin.

Bantustans

 

Quote

For decades, the official Israeli position has been supportive of a Palestinian state and even presented this option as just and moral. In all these years, the Israeli leadership said "Yes, but not now." 

They were just waiting for this plan to seem acceptable.

[Haji 2003]

Norman Finkelstein

Quotes Nobel Laureate Paul Krugman that Israel is headed towards national suicide.

 

[Haji 2003]

Pahlavi visits various non-Muslim sites in Israel - but no Muslim ones ...

 

[Abu Nur]

3 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Pahlavi visits various non-Muslim sites in Israel - but no Muslim ones ...

 

This guy is preparing that if US/Nato is going to attack Iran in coming years then the new government of Iran will be Pahvali one supporting Israel like the old days. May God destroy their plan. 

Edited April 17 by Abu Nur

[Haji 2003]

Odd place for a meeting

Looks like an empty staff canteen

[Haji 2003]

12 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

This guy is preparing that if US/Nato is going to attack Iran in coming years then the new government of Iran will be Pahvali one supporting Israel like the old days. May God destroy their plan. 

Yes. Even amongst the anti-IRI group, there are several contenders for leadership positions. Each of them will likely promise to sell out more than the others.

[Haji 2003]

He seems to do his praying at non-Muslim sites