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In the Name of God بسم الله

I suspect my daughter being abused

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kaneez14

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^ Man what are you guys talking about???

The child's behavior could be effected for MANY reasons.

And one reason COULD be child abuse.

If there is NO sign of abuse, then why accuse the husband of abuse based on NOTHING?

Hasan Sajjad

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Indecent touching of a child would NOT leave signs of abuse. The mother must have her suspicions that something was going on, as she is the one living in the house with the father and daughter, unlike us. She may be wrong, but she has made a decision in what she feels are her childs best interests. She may be wrong, and I truly feel sorry for the husband and children if she is, but her head and heart told her something was wrong, and she felt she had to act.

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And one reason COULD be child abuse.

Indecent touching of a child would NOT leave signs of abuse. The mother must have her suspicions that something was going on, as she is the one living in the house with the father and daughter, unlike us. She may be wrong, but she has made a decision in what she feels are her childs best interests. She may be wrong, and I truly feel sorry for the husband and children if she is, but her head and heart told her something was wrong, and she felt she had to act.

What a pathetic reason to tear apart a family... father having to stay without his children.. children without father.. just because wife has 'waham' delusions thats his husband is upto some mischief...

and esp. when after all this scientific investigation apart from mother trying by all possible means to extract from daughter that monster's name.. she never uttered her father's.. and this is spread over many months not a few days.. isn't it going a bit too overboard..

all of us understand that child abuse is a very serious issue and needs to be tackled very sensitively and aggresively.. but that does not mean you can end up dividing families based on your whims and opinions.. when none of the family members agree even after this big headlines.. if it has come to this level for the wife then hasn't this mariage come to a point of no return.. when you don't allow your husband in house and don't allow him to interact with his child.. without any proofs.. when even you cannot elicit a word from your daughter against your hubby.. thats crazy

I guess all those defending the wife even at this point after almost a year of story and with this much detail.. need to read Islamic teachings..

As a mother your first instinct is to protect your child above EVERYTHING/EVERYONE else. There are different types of abuse that wouldn't leave a physical mark, but for sure would leave an ever-lasting mental/emotional/spiritual mark.

And what if the father has GUT that mother is trying to keep away the child from him ??.. Family relations don't work on basis of whims and delusions.. Investigating and being alert is one thing.. but going hyper with your concerns and tearing apart the family is another..

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I think everyone needs to realize that there is no "right" or "wrong" thing to do in a situation like this, especially when we are being presented with one side of the story. You can't condemn her and dismiss her "intuition." You can't dismiss the power of what a mother feels, especially when she is hearing noises from upstairs at 3 am in the morning and when she has known this man intimately, far better than we do or her family does. A lot of women ignore abuse because they fear not having concrete "proof" or ruining their reputation. Some ignore it because they can't accept their husband, the man they love, is so sick that he lusts after their own child. Sometimes ignoring intuition because things seem ok on the surface is a lot easier than putting the interests of your child above your own.

You can't dismiss it because the child has not admitted it and you can't allow him to continue living with his child in order to "prove" it. The situation is incredibly messy.

Similarly we can't condemn the father because this may be a product of paranoia or other psychological issues this woman has. We just have to accept that in this case we can't take sides and we can't help her figure things out, all we can do is pray for that poor child. Both parents will eventually (whatever the future holds) move on in life. That child is the only person in this entire situation who is not to be blamed or questioned.. and I prefer her living away from her father for the time being because the negative implications of that situation are far less severe than pretending nothing has happened.

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I think both wife and husband needs proper counselling esp. from a senior religious scholar who can discuss this with them in privacy and not broadcast their concerns and allegations in public.. and calm them down.. and teach them their responsibilities and rights.. and do's and no do's (esp. the hubby that he needs to be away from filth that's is available on internet (if he is upto it)).. it's shocking that only 1 person (before i write this post) in this whole thread suggested an Islamic and a better way of this problem to the lady concern..

I would urge the sister who posted this issue here to seriously explore this option of talking to her husband and going for a counselling session with a senior and pious scholar who they both agree for.. and then discuss very frankly all their allegations and counter allegations there.. else only Allah may save this marriage in long term...

Edited by shabib_jaisi
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You can't dismiss the power of what a mother feels, especially when she is hearing noises from upstairs at 3 am in the morning and when she has known this man intimately, far better than we do or her family does.

Question is why she herself never tried to rush upstairs on hearing those noises at 3 am.. what was stopping her from grabbing the monster red handed.. atleast she would have known if her hubby was the monster or not.. i mean this is ridiculous that we keep believing in accusations when it's verification was not that difficult..

i think these issues need not be discussed in this detail on Shia chat.. it's better to discuss in private with any member here if they are expert on this.. such explicit details from one side is not the way to solve this issue..

Edited by shabib_jaisi
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Salam,

Sister, I am sorry to say but I do not agree with your decisions. Child abuse is a very harsh reality that exists and should be avoided and protected from by any cost however given that their is a small shred of proof. I am sorry to say but based on your posts your "gut feeling" is not a valid proof what so ever to shred your family apart and deny your husband yourself and access to his children. Your actions are all based on doubts and suspicions. I hope I am "right" and that your daughter was not abused. Imagine for a second that your "gut feeling" was wrong. Do you understand the consequence of what you are doing?

Please look into this further, talk and communicate with your husband, set up counseling or a local credible scholar which both of you trust to be an intermediary.

I will pray that inshallah everything works out for you

Ma'salam

Edited by Deen
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Shabib jaisi..you know what is totally crazy?

People talking about investigating properly and then THEY themselves make up some random assumptions. Such as the father is not having ANY contact with the children and vice versa. Please act upon your own advice, before you dish it out to others. I never said any such thing. The children do see their father, they just don't live under the same roof as him. You do not know me and i frankly dont care what you think of me, but i know how important my marriage was to me. This was a decision i did not want to have to make, but unfortunately one of lifes harsh realities has happened and it turned my entire world upside down.

You cannot know what someone like me is having had to deal with in this past year. DONT think it could never happen to you because i did too. Where on earth are you coming out with 'scientific investigation'.???

There you go again with your ASSUMPTIONS.

I don't understand WHY you are so against me coming on here and asking for advice??

What EXPLICIT DETAILS???

I have nowhere gone into any details about exactly what he has done!!! and neither do i wish to.

It is people like you who wish for this subject to be kept 'under the carpet' that allow it to carry on and those that continue to abuse do so knowing that because of 'people like you' the 'victim will not be believed.

I can say that of the entire shiachat members, unfortunately some will have had experience of this sad issue. :-(

WAKE UP and come out of the dark ages. This is an issue which affects ALL kinds of people. Just be thankful to Allah that for YOU this IS JUST a story but for my daughter and I aswell as so many others this IS not a story but REALITY. Huh...and you talk about Islamically. FYI...i have researched what is islamically my duty...to protect my children.

When i first posted i was truly searching for help and advice. Now when i updated, i wanted to share my experience and to help raise awareness about this issue. So many unfortunately are left totally isolated when they are affected by abuse.

You can close your eyes and pretend that something as evil as this does not exist. I did not expect anything other than this from people like you.

Like i said before...think what you will of me. Life has forced me to face something which i never ever thought that this man who i adored, would ever be capable of such a thing. But still with the help of Allah i have managed to come through and do the right thing fore my daughter..which is to PROTECT her!!!!!

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DEEN oh please...you don't think that i have thought i may be wrong???

That is exactly what i thought, and that is what i wanted to be..WRONG. But for my daughters safety and wellbeing i had to do what some on here are finding it difficult to do. Face reality.!!!

I am not here to try and convince anyone because none of these people live with me or my children. So for them they can sit in the comfort of their home and act like this doesn't exist. It's not them that i care about. Its the victims forced to stay silent that i care about.

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^ Her decision as she mentioned was based on her daughter saying there is a monster in her room and then her developing a "gut feeling". Come on now, even I have closet monsters in my room!

You can't take a father away from her daughter, and a daughter away from her father based on a "gut feeling". Do you all honestly think a father doesn't care about her daughter? A father now has no right over his daughter, where a mother can have a "gut feeling" and take away everything?

Come on Irishman, lets be real here.

Hasan Sajjad

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I dont think a wife and mother is going to tear apart her family unless that gut feeling is very strong, maybe as a result of other actions and behaviours she has witnessed in the own home.

As for you comment "Do you all honestly think a father doesn't care about his daughter?"

Well, then its that care and protection for the daughter by her mother that caused the mother to take this course of action. I dont know if the father is guilty of this act, only him and Allah will truly know, as the child may have blanked it out. But you dont know for certain either if the husband is not guilty of this act.

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Shabib jaisi..you know what is totally crazy?

People talking about investigating properly and then THEY themselves make up some random assumptions. Such as the father is not having ANY contact with the children and vice versa. Please act upon your own advice, before you dish it out to others. I never said any such thing. The children do see their father, they just don't live under the same roof as him. You do not know me and i frankly dont care what you think of me, but i know how important my marriage was to me. This was a decision i did not want to have to make, but unfortunately one of lifes harsh realities has happened and it turned my entire world upside down.

You cannot know what someone like me is having had to deal with in this past year. DONT think it could never happen to you because i did too. Where on earth are you coming out with 'scientific investigation'.???

There you go again with your ASSUMPTIONS.

I don't understand WHY you are so against me coming on here and asking for advice??

What EXPLICIT DETAILS???

I have nowhere gone into any details about exactly what he has done!!! and neither do i wish to.

It is people like you who wish for this subject to be kept 'under the carpet' that allow it to carry on and those that continue to abuse do so knowing that because of 'people like you' the 'victim will not be believed.

I can say that of the entire shiachat members, unfortunately some will have had experience of this sad issue. :-(

WAKE UP and come out of the dark ages. This is an issue which affects ALL kinds of people. Just be thankful to Allah that for YOU this IS JUST a story but for my daughter and I aswell as so many others this IS not a story but REALITY. Huh...and you talk about Islamically. FYI...i have researched what is islamically my duty...to protect my children.

When i first posted i was truly searching for help and advice. Now when i updated, i wanted to share my experience and to help raise awareness about this issue. So many unfortunately are left totally isolated when they are affected by abuse.

You can close your eyes and pretend that something as evil as this does not exist. I did not expect anything other than this from people like you.

Like i said before...think what you will of me. Life has forced me to face something which i never ever thought that this man who i adored, would ever be capable of such a thing. But still with the help of Allah i have managed to come through and do the right thing fore my daughter..which is to PROTECT her!!!!!

Sister let me clarify a few things before i write something more and you get me wrong...

First of all i m sorry for hurting you with my utterings.. but please know that when you post a private event of your life on a public forum.. you invite comments from one and all.. so if you get so hurt by even reading opinions of other people or the advices they have to offer.. i would suggest please don't post such details on a public forum..

2ndly no one is closing his/her eye to this rampant problem of child abuse.. even by their immediate family members.. i also wish that may Allah protect you and your childrens.. may Allah clear things for you and your family so that they may happily live this life.. And may Allah not show these hardships to other momeneens/momenaats.. It's also equally important to raise awareness by sharing one's personal experience if any in this regard...

And i still believe that best way forward for any such cases is to seek both professional help and help from an Islamic scholar so as to understand the implications both from physical and spiritual aspects.. and just for your understanding it is true that Islamically your duty is to protect your childrens.. but Islamically you have no business to keep your husband away from children (even if it is for a minute) based on your unproved suspicions (unless they are proved which you have not yet mentioned on this site even once).. so please understand that you have no right to trample upon anyone's right to secure the Gut feelings of yours..

If the accusations are proved (even slightly) against your husband then it's a different case..

I am once again sorry if i hurt you in any way.. Allah knows that it was not the intention.. All of us who question wish that your marriage may be back on track if possible and that the family may live like a family if possible..

I wish to post no further to avoid hurting you.. I hope you forgive me

Iltemas e Dua

Wassalam

Edited by shabib_jaisi
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I am not hurt by anyone's comments, just annoyed by the ignorance of some, who are adamanat that this cannot be true. Why would i be hurt? Frankly i have been hurt in the worst possible way by my husband, the one who i loved most in this world. But i have come some way through this and have to be strong for the sake of my children. In this pat year i have had some very very bad lows and have prayed for my existence to end. But my belief in Allah did not allow me to do so. And love for my children, who would care for them if i wasn't around? I have had to put my own pain aside and move on.

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Asalam o Alikum Sister,

I have skimmed through your posts and all the comment's in this thread. I don't want to say anything rude that can hurt you or offend anyone here. Let's not be emotional but be practical here. I will pray that inshallah Allah swt will help you and your daughter through this hard time and gives you patience. It is a very tough situation and I hope no mother ever face something like that. You are a very strong person Mashallah and I hope you stand like this. I personally don't know you nor I am experienced but, I wish you come all over this as soon as possible.

I will keep you in my prayers.

Ya ali.

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Jazakallah Brother Mohsen Ali. Your words have brought tears to my eyes and touched my heart.

So kind of you to say and exactly what i have been searching for hence coming on Shiachat, where i believed that my momin brothers and sisters would not necessarily agree with me but just keep me in their duas at this very very difficult test in my life.

It is ironic that we call ourselves the followers of the masoomeen yet we shun those in need who do not ask for much but only to be understood and for others to show abit of compassion. It doesn't take alot but it means a great deal to someone like me. We treat those overcome by difficulties by treating them as though it is their fault. When all they have done is their islamic duty to serve and stay loyal to their partner. Yet are repayed for their commitment by being violated through that which is most dear to them as a mother, her child.

That child which she had prayed day and night to be blessed with. I pray that we ALL may improve our ikhlaq both on here and in the real world, so that we can truly be called followers of the Ahlebait. Illahiameen. And brother please please keep me in your prayers, i truly believe that with the duas of my true momin brothers and sisters, i will gain the strength to go on and come through this test. Although at this time i feel very very low, unable to carry on. And sometimes in desperation pray for me and my children to be called away from this world forever.

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macisaac and others: i think for a lady to decide to uproot her family and take such measures, it must have been slightly more than a "gut feeling". in situations like this people like us who dont know the mother, father, child, environment or the full situation and only have limited access to information, all we can do is give the benefit of the doubt to the mother.

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MDM thank you for your words. I have given up stressing over the words of people like some of those on here.

Instead i have from the start and will carry on calling on help from Mola Ghazi Abbas(as) and i truly believe that they have helped me to come through the hard times when i thought i would either go crazy or lose my life because of the pain of all this betrayal faced by that daughter that i did so many manats on Ghazi's alam for.

But i have my belief that it is them that will get me through this and the zaalim will face what he is owed in this life and the next.

I pray that my children and i will at some point this year be able to go to Iraq and call upon them standing in front of their zari. Ilahiameen.

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(salam)

I have spent much time considering whether I should reply to this topic and decided that I have a few things that I want to say, even though they are extremely personal to me.

Whether the OP is right or wrong to remove her children from their father is not for me to judge. There is only one judge and that is Allah. I am here to post, albeit very briefly, my experience.

I was abused from the age of 6 to the age of 14 and there were three perpetrators, all living under my roof and one who was not. I showed no outward emotional signs and there was never a mark on my body to show what was happening. I spoke once to a friend about it when I was about 9 or 10, who then spoke to my school principle, who then spoke to me - and I denied anything was happening (as is the case for a lot of victims). And that's where any intervention stopped.

My mother tells me she had absolutely no inkling of what was happening and, I like to think that if she did she would have taken all measures humanly possible to protect me. Proof or no proof.

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all we can do is give the benefit of the doubt to the mother.

No, we don't, because to do so is to accuse another person, a Muslim at that, of being guilty of a horrendous crime (molesting his own daughter). Imagine if someone did that to you. You do realize that when it comes to child molestation the mere accusation of it, even if the person if found completely innocent, can basically ruin them for life. If there was really more substantial evidence other than her feelings, you don't think she'd have presented it instead of the extremely weak arguments she's been talking about? And you don't think the police would have been all over this if there was even the slightest possibility of truth in what she is accusing him of? And I'm confused by her now saying that she's still allowing them to spend time with each other. If he really was this evil, depraved molester she's accused him of being, why would she even think of putting her daughter in the same room as him??

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^

True that. Everybody knows what kind of social implications come along when once someone has been labelled as ''child molester'' eventhough he is not. When I read this topic, I subconsciously replied to it; You have to buy a gun and shoot your husband in the back of the head. I think everyone has the same feeling when dealing with child molesters. But what if the accusation is absolutely wrong? Innocent untill proven guilty is how I feel.

Edited by P. Ease
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Macisaac, like i said before go do some research, read the post before yours. Not ALL child molesters are brought to justice. Irony is that PROOF is required in this man made court of law. Like hijabikel said there isn't always visibl proof. According to idiots like you i can't do right. If he is kept from the kids then u say " a father is not allowed to see his kids, how wrong" and if he does see them then its "he shouldn't be seeing them " make up ur minds where u stand cos u seem confused to me.

That is a tragedy in itself that it is her father, someone who is biologically so close to her, don't u think i have wished that it was someone else a complete stranger then yes i would have not thought twice about throttling them. You are not in this situation and you know i never wished this upon myself or anyone else but maybe if it did happen to a certain someone then at least you wouldn't be jumping up and down for the rights of a so called muslim.

I wonder why you are sympathetic of her father, do you have something to hide???

@ Hijabikel i am really really sorry to hear of what you went through. I am sure that had your mum known then she would have done all that she could have to protect her child. But then she would have been gunned for protecting you by people like some of those on here for even thinking something like that.

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This situation is most likely a lot more complex than you realize. You can apply for a social worker to help navigate through all of this - dont know if you have one or not but they are trained to help from the outside as when you are in the middle of an extremely stressful emotional situation it is hard to see things objectively - hard for all of us - not just you. It is good to have another who is not involved in the situation who is TRAINED to suggest what is best for everyone.

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Irony is that PROOF is required in this man made court of law.

Um, yeah.. that's why we don't go stringing people up from trees without evidence...

Like hijabikel said there isn't always visibl proof.

Except in your case, you have have zero proof, visible or otherwise, only your suspicions. There's also a world of difference between someone who has been molested over a protracted period of time by multiple individuals up to the age of fourteen, where they will have a pretty clear idea of what sex is and a strongly developed sense of shame, social consciousness and so on, and a five year old. A decent psychiatrist should be able to get a basic "have you ever been touched over here" or "tell me about the types of games you play with so and so" or "let's play a game with these dolls. here's the daddy doll, here's the girl doll." and so on. But according to what you have said, therapy has shown nothing of this sort.

If he is kept from the kids then u say " a father is not allowed to see his kids, how wrong" and if he does see them then its "he shouldn't be seeing them " make up ur minds where u stand cos u seem confused to me.

Forget about me, how is your behavior consistent to yourself? If I really, truly believed someone had molested my child, there's no way I'd allow them to be with their molester.

That is a tragedy in itself that it is her father, someone who is biologically so close to her, don't u think i have wished that it was someone else a complete stranger then yes i would have not thought twice about throttling them.

Which brings up the next question. Though you've provided no evidence of her even having been molested in the first place, why did you assume it _had_ to have been her father as opposed to someone else she knows?

I wonder why you are sympathetic of her father, do you have something to hide???

This one, stupid, comment has amply demonstrated the type of person you are, and why we should trust your suspicions even less.

Allah help your daughter.

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And may Allah help imbeciles like you aswell....and thank Allah that HE is the judge and not persons like you!!!

Oh and i do not remember asking for your OPINION. I was merely bringing this particular issue here to maybe help others. I have done what is BEST for my child. Thats not gonna change. And i do recall mentioning physical signs on her body aswell.

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Salams,

I just wanted to add that there are hidden cameras that look like other objects (like radios, lamps, etc) and do not require any light to work(i.e. you can see what's going on even if the lights are off). If the sis decides to let him back in the house, I would suggest getting a few of these and placing them at different areas around your daughters room, so that if he finds one there is still others that are working, or if one stops working you still have a backup. If you get him 'in the act' there will be no dispute about evidence, he will have his parental rights taken away, Islamically and civally, and will be in jail. If you need info on where to purchase these types of cameras or help setting them up, I am sure there are members here who can help you. I am not an expert on this type of technology, but I know it exists.

You and your daughter are in my duaa's.

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well well well, it seems you have come here to justify and feel at peace with your decision rather than actually seeking advice. I don't think anyone here has asserted your child isnt being abused, they are simply questioning your "gut instincts" based on incredibly limited amount of information you have provided us. Anyways we do have to appreciate a mothers love for her child and also realize the fact that a lot of mothers tend to be overly protective and paranoid when it comes to their children. I realize that a lot of children can take abuse without ever reporting it, but if a mother happens to suspect and let alone be convinced of abuse, it shouldn't be that hard to find evidence beyond gut instinct to prove her doubts. I think if a loved one spends enough time comforting and reassuring the child of their care, love and safety, they do tend to open up to their loved ones especially if they are only a child. Anyways we don't have enough information here and I understand your concern with respects to your child and who knows, your course of action based on gut instincts maybe the best way to go. I would urge you to keep trying to look for credible evidence though, not for the authorities or the courts, but for yourself personally. Focus on the child, I am sure eventually they will open up and come clear provided that they were abused in the first place.

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Salams,

I just wanted to add that there are hidden cameras that look like other objects (like radios, lamps, etc) and do not require any light to work(i.e. you can see what's going on even if the lights are off). If the sis decides to let him back in the house, I would suggest getting a few of these and placing them at different areas around your daughters room, so that if he finds one there is still others that are working, or if one stops working you still have a backup. If you get him 'in the act' there will be no dispute about evidence, he will have his parental rights taken away, Islamically and civally, and will be in jail. If you need info on where to purchase these types of cameras or help setting them up, I am sure there are members here who can help you. I am not an expert on this type of technology, but I know it exists.

You and your daughter are in my duaa's.

you know, thats a brilliant idea.

hidden cameras are pretty cheap and easy to set up, for eg. look here. set one up, and keep it running. if he does do anything you will have all the hard evidence you are ever going to need, and he will go to jail.

btw do you KNOW what they do to paedophiles in jail? he will suffer every single moment of every single day :)

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Kaneez, I know this must be very scary for you,

I can't imagine what you must be thinking bro.

If I had a daughter, if anything were to happen...

...heads would roll!

By the way you do get infra-red cams for darkness.

Maybe thats an option.

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