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In the Name of God بسم الله

why doesnt god just kill the devil?

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salams, ya ali madat, and lanat on the enemies of the ahlebeyt guys :)

got a few interesting questions, be good to see what u can come up with

(1) why did Allah make a deal with shaytaan? why extend his life until qiyaamat? why didnt Allah just kill him and allow the world to be full of good? how do we know the difference between evil caused by shaytaan, and evil caused by humans?

(2) why test us? why create us to worship him, when he does not require it?

(3) how did shaytaan gather his support, and who from? does he have agents? disciples? his own prophets? his own army?

(4) if shaytaan did so many ibadats for so many hundreds of thousands of years, why didnt they benefit him as ibaadat do to humans, and cause him to humble himself? what triggered his pride after all those years devotion?

(5) what non muslim proof do we have that the quran is perfectly preserved, or that our prophet was a descendant of abraham, or that abraham built the kaaba?

got about 15 more but these will do for now lol

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(salam)

1.Allah has his own wisdom that humans cannot comprehend.But maybe he did this because it would be ideal for the test for humans.

2.Because Allah (swt) cannot be called a creator if he didn't create anything.He is the creator of time, shape, and everything else.Allah wanted to be known as a creator so he created us so we can worship him and know he is the creator.

3.Shaytan misguides people and therefor they become his "helpers".It's almost like army tag.Once you get someone, they get other people.For example, if a guy did drugs, wouldn't he want to get other people to do them with him? This is what the Shaytan does to us.

4.Because the worst thing you can do is be a believer and then stop believing for personal needs or desires.Shaytan decided not to bow down to Adam (as), and so know he is misguiding people.He will be thrown in hell because he stopped worshipping Allah (swt).To add on to that, he's misguided so many people so a very big punishment will go to him.

5.If we can prove that God (swt) exists, then it will be easy to show that the correct religion is Islam.First prove that the Bible and Torah has been changed, then after that you only need to use logic.If there is a God, and 2 of his books have been changed, he has to leave us with SOMETHING..The Qu'ran is that SOMETHING.God (swt) wouldn't have created us to fail, or to burn in hell forever.And let's just assume that MAYBE he did, why not try to ask him to be merciful to you by following the religion that seems the most true, so if God turned out to be merciful, you go to heaven, and if God just wanted all of us to burn in hell, then obviously you can't do anything about it.The ideal way to prove Islam is to first prove there is a God.

Hard questions :P

(salam)

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(salam)

2.Because Allah (swt) cannot be called a creator if he didn't create anything.He is the creator of time, shape, and everything else.Allah wanted to be known as a creator so he created us so we can worship him and know he is the creator.

I beleive god was a hidden treasure and wanted to be known and thatsy he created Ahlulbayt, not because God wanted to be known as a creator.

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I beleive god was a hidden treasure and wanted to be known and thatsy he created Ahlulbayt, not because God wanted to be known as a creator.

(salam)

Most of these questions have a plain answer : It is God's wisdom..

We will never know the exact reason of why he created us because our minds can't comprehend it.So we all have our explanations, but in the end, we'll never know the actual reason.

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I beleive god was a hidden treasure and wanted to be known and thatsy he created Ahlulbayt, not because God wanted to be known as a creator.

Interesting. This is what Imam Ali says

Sermon 90 - Even a silent thing is a guide towards Him as though it speaks, and its guidance towards the Creator is clear.

Sermon 185 - Everything that is known through itself has been created, and everything that exists by virtue of other things is the effect (of a cause)............................Through them the Creator manifests Himself to the intelligence, and through them He is guarded from the sight of the eyes.

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Hadith-e-Qudsi

"I was a hidden treasure and I desired to be known. So I created the creation in order to be known."

Thats true but it contradicts what you said earlier.

and thats why He created Ahlulbayt, not because God wanted to be known as a creator.

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Earlier I said God wanted to be known and thatsy he created ahlulbayt, he didn't create because he wanted to be known as a creator, he just wanted to be known? How does that contradict what I said earlier??

I'm confused :D

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(1) why did Allah make a deal with shaytaan? why extend his life until qiyaamat? why didnt Allah just kill him and allow the world to be full of good? how do we know the difference between evil caused by shaytaan, and evil caused by humans?

One theory is that Allah granted shaitan's wish to reward him for his thousands of years of ibadaat... no good deed goes to waste, and the fact that Allah granted shaitan's request gives me a lot of hope... it validates Allah's Justice and Mercy etc. Also, his life hasn't been extended till Qiyamaat, it is only till an appointed time which many believe will end before Qiyamat (some say the the 12th Imam will kill him, Allahu Alim)

At the end of the day, the type of evil you are asking about is caused by humans... shaitan can't force anyone to do anything, he enters at the level of thought and offers suggestions... it is each humans' choice to accept or decline the suggestion.

(2) why test us? why create us to worship him, when he does not require it?

For our own benefit. Our natural disposition is to worship Allah swt and be happy through it. Unhappiness arises when we deviate from this purpose i.e. it is abnormal to not worship Allah swt. And Allah Knows Best.

Read this by Ayatullah Khomenie for more info, very interesting:

http://www.al-islam.org/fortyhadith/11.htm

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Earlier I said God wanted to be known and thatsy he created ahlulbayt, he didn't create because he wanted to be known as a creator, he just wanted to be known? How does that contradict what I said earlier??

Because from the sermons I have quoted and the Hadith a qudsi that you have quoted, the common thread between them is that God wants to be known by virtue of Creation. In your first statement you said the following

and thats why He created Ahlulbayt, not because God wanted to be known as a creator.

Ofcourse Allah wants to be known as a Creator though His Creation. There is no other way. So obviously the 2 statements contradict each other.

Allah would be known even thru silent things i.e. inanimate objects. We dont need Ahlul Bayt for that as per the sermon of Imam Ali. Where the Ahlul Bayt are important in this equation is that AFTER the Prophets, they have the most knowledge about Creation. Thus guidance through them regarding Creation is the ONLY way Allah has made viable for us. This is what Imam Ali says again on the subject

Sermon 151 - Certainly the Imáms are the vicegerents of Alláh over His creatures and they make the creatures know Alláh. No one will enter Paradise except he who knows them and knows Him, and no one will enter Hell except he who denies them and denies Him.

In short we cannot know creation without consulting the Ahlul Bayt. Thats the way Allah has designed it.

Edited by simplymoja
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(salam)

2.Because Allah (swt) cannot be called a creator if he didn't create anything.He is the creator of time, shape, and everything else.Allah wanted to be known as a creator so he created us so we can worship him and know he is the creator.

I beleive god was a hidden treasure and wanted to be known and thatsy he created Ahlulbayt, not because God wanted to be known as a creator.
Hadith-e-Qudsi

"I was a hidden treasure and I desired to be known. So I created the creation in order to be known."

Edited by MOHIB E AHLAYBAIT
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^

Absolutely I VUN HUNDRED PERCENTAGE TINGS agree vith you this is extremely immature thinking. What a waste of time thread this maula da malangness has created. You are right Ali Huzaifa, he thinks very immaturely............I personally think that making threads about loving girls and my heart is vith the girl from the sunni school of faith is very manly and grown up, but pondering upon Allah (swt) is just........plain childish!!!!!

GROW UP MAULA DHA MALANG!!!!!!

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^

Absolutely I VUN HUNDRED PERCENTAGE TINGS agree vith you this is extremely immature thinking. What a waste of time thread this maula da malangness has created. You are right Ali Huzaifa, he thinks very immaturely............I personally think that making threads about loving girls and my heart is vith the girl from the sunni school of faith is very manly and grown up, but pondering upon Allah (swt) is just........plain childish!!!!!

GROW UP MAULA DHA MALANG!!!!!!

ok here i have a critic lemme explain it to you...

my threads on love and sunni girl is not a challenge against Allah or any thing like that, i dont doubt on his creation,i have a personal issue so just thought lemme share it with my love hearted bro and sis who can help me in some way..nothing personal

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asking such questions shows even we muslims dont trust Allah's decision and his creation.

any ways i my self like to explore things and ask as many questions i can...but some times we need to try and find out few solution by our own consicious..

any ways carry on i have no intention to interrupt

hehe i am busy with my loving world i dont care what people doing

masalam

Edited by Ali Huzaifa
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asking such questions shows even we muslims dont trust Allah's decision and his creation.

Or it could mean that we want to learn more about our deen rather than following blindly?!

Think before you talk. Just 'cause someone wants to learn doesn't mean they have no faith. Who the hell are you to decide anyway?!

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Ali Huzaifa my freshy brotha from anotha motha

There are those who question to look more knowledgeable i.e they are not interested in learning, rather they want to either show how silly something is, or negate something or somebody publically to make themselves look so cool like ........

AMITAAAB BACHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN AMITAAAB BACHAAAAAAN

slum460.jpg

OR THOSE WHO QUESTION BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KNOW SINCERELY THE TRUTH AND SEARCH FOR ANSWERS

LET'S NOT FORGET IMAM ALI (A.S) SAID THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A STUPID QUESTION .....(.I BET THAT SILLY POOFTA WHO ASKED HIM HOW MANY HAIRS HE HAD ON HIS HEAD TOOK IMAMS SAYING COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT)

Edited by SO SOLID SHIA
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i am never against learning look at sign...plunge into depth untill u reach truth

;)

Or it could mean that we want to learn more about our deen rather than following blindly?!

Think before you talk. Just 'cause someone wants to learn doesn't mean they have no faith. Who the hell are you to decide anyway?!

chill out bro...u might donno hell might be near for doubting Allah's decisions :angel:

any ways lets cut the [Edited Out] down here i am busy i wont be able to reply further carry on with ur research i really dont care

Edited by Ali Huzaifa
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Lol, and to think..This whole arguement started because I said ".Because Allah (swt) cannot be called a creator if he didn't create anything." :D

very immature thinking

Yes you have a point.For example, if I was a Christian, I should just follow blindly instead of looking for answers.We may as well just put our heads down and remain empty with knowledge.

asking such questions shows even we muslims dont trust Allah's decision and his creation.

Or it can show that we are thirsty for knowledge.

chill out bro...u might donno hell might be near for doubting Allah's decisions

We are not doubting Allah's (swt) decisions.We are merely asking if there was an explanation to these things.There are no hadiths or Qu'ranic verses that say "wondering why Allah created you is haram and you will go to hell for it".There are no "mights".Allah made everything clear about what is haram.This is why we have the Qu'ran, the Messenger (pbuh), and the Imams (as).So we can know what we should and shouldn't do.

(salam)

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salams, ya ali madat, and lanat on the enemies of the ahlebeyt guys :)

got a few interesting questions, be good to see what u can come up with

(1) why did Allah make a deal with shaytaan? why extend his life until qiyaamat? why didnt Allah just kill him and allow the world to be full of good? how do we know the difference between evil caused by shaytaan, and evil caused by humans?

(2) why test us? why create us to worship him, when he does not require it?

(3) how did shaytaan gather his support, and who from? does he have agents? disciples? his own prophets? his own army?

(4) if shaytaan did so many ibadats for so many hundreds of thousands of years, why didnt they benefit him as ibaadat do to humans, and cause him to humble himself? what triggered his pride after all those years devotion?

(5) what non muslim proof do we have that the quran is perfectly preserved, or that our prophet was a descendant of abraham, or that abraham built the kaaba?

got about 15 more but these will do for now lol

Wooaaa MDM, awesome questions I must say. You are opening up a pandora's box I must warn too. :D Sometimes, I just feel that there is something fundamentally wrong with these concepts. There is something that doesn't sit well with us when we think too much about it. An avalanche of logical contradictions, perceived or real, sweep us off our feet.

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I believe in everyone at birth has a priori knowledge of there being a God, but not of a Satan. We may thank, or rue, Zoroaster for the innovation of the now epic battle of good versus evil, light versus dark and an ultimate master of evil. These concepts were then incorporated by the Jews. In fact some of the Dead Sea Scrolls, written by Essenes, are verbatum copies of Zoroastrian scripture. Whats more Zoroastrianism includes a messiah and virgin birth. I myself give no creedence to the Satan concept. There for there is nothing for God to dispose of.

All is perfect, so perfectly perfect!

Whatever being lives, moves

And breathes on Earth

At every level from atom

To galaxy is absolutely perfect in its place

Precise and choreographed,

Because "That" flows from the glory of God,

The Lord,

The Self

Consciousness.

The Source,

Awareness, Peace, and Love,

And is therefore perfect,

When you have surrendered your ego

To "That"

You will find happiness.

Never ever envy the place of

Any other man or woman.

From the Isa Upanishad.

Peace

Satyaban

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yeah well...no point in having doubts festering in ur mind is there? might as well ask the questions and see what comes up.

what i dont understand is the whole deal between shaytaan and Allah...how can any creation, a jinn, who has been granted status due to his ibadat, act in such a way?

why would Allah grant a status to iblees higher than all but the highest angels, if Allah knew what was in his nature? we cannot have our duas answered due to our sins and our inner natures...why did Allah grant shaytaan the status, DESPITE iblees' arrogance?

and secondly, how can a creation, who has done SO MUCH ibadat, dare to "cut a deal" with his creator?!?! doesnt it say in the quran in black and white that "eyes percieve him not" etc, i.e. we cant see, hear, touch or anything Allah, so how exactly was this deal made? and why did Allah grant iblees life until qiyaamat?

if Allah is a gracious god, and a beneficient god, and a merciful god, why not just get rid of shaytaan completely, allow us to worship him in perfection, and fill the world with grace, benefits and mercy?

and secondly - how can we prove that our prophet is the descendant of abraham, and abraham built the kaaba, to someone who has no faith or is not a muslim?

my questions spring from these thoughts

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yeah well...no point in having doubts festering in ur mind is there? might as well ask the questions and see what comes up.

what i dont understand is the whole deal between shaytaan and Allah...how can any creation, a jinn, who has been granted status due to his ibadat, act in such a way?

why would Allah grant a status to iblees higher than all but the highest angels, if Allah knew what was in his nature? we cannot have our duas answered due to our sins and our inner natures...why did Allah grant shaytaan the status, DESPITE iblees' arrogance?

and secondly, how can a creation, who has done SO MUCH ibadat, dare to "cut a deal" with his creator?!?! doesnt it say in the quran in black and white that "eyes percieve him not" etc, i.e. we cant see, hear, touch or anything Allah, so how exactly was this deal made? and why did Allah grant iblees life until qiyaamat?

if Allah is a gracious god, and a beneficient god, and a merciful god, why not just get rid of shaytaan completely, allow us to worship him in perfection, and fill the world with grace, benefits and mercy?

and secondly - how can we prove that our prophet is the descendant of abraham, and abraham built the kaaba, to someone who has no faith or is not a muslim?

my questions spring from these thoughts

Did you ever think that maybe Allah (SWT) granted him such a long life so that he could increase his acts of disobedience so that when he is finally thrown into hell fire for eternity with all its horror he will totally deserve it. Sometimes life can be a blessing and sometimes it can be a curse. Allah (SWT) gave the best of everything to Pharoah, but his afterlife will be one of unimaginable suffering. Long life does not mean he was granted a blessing.

In terms of granting him such a high status before his act of disobedience this is not a strange thing at all. Allah (SWT) does not judge us before we do something wrong. Allah (SWT) knows the final destination and acts of all of his creation, but that doesn't stop Him from allowing us perform those actions.

Why do you think that if Allah (SWT) would get rid of iblees that all of a sudden everything would be okay. The concept of shaytaan is larger than just iblees. The concept of shaytan, which iblees embodies, is about those that have disregarded Allah's command and have rebelled against Him. The Quran mentions the shayateen among jinn and man, so we shouldn't think that iblees is the source of all satanic forces. Anyone who joins into the camp of rebelling against Allah (SWT) become a type of shaytan.

I really don't see how you can historically prove that the Prophet (SAW) is a decendant of Abraham (as) or that Abraham (as) built the kaaba to a non-believer. It is probably better to convince them that Allah (SWT) exists and that Islam is the true religion to follow. These other things will become a lot easier after that since the Quran verifies both.

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thanks for the post, u said some pretty interesting things man.

In terms of granting him such a high status before his act of disobedience this is not a strange thing at all. Allah (SWT) does not judge us before we do something wrong. Allah (SWT) knows the final destination and acts of all of his creation, but that doesn't stop Him from allowing us perform those actions.

no i mean, that much ibadat in the very presence of Allah, MUST have had some positive benefit on iblees, look at us humans, people do so much zikr one of the first things they learn to control is their own nafs. thats over a HUMAN lifetime, maybe 20 - 30 years max. when a being has done hundreds and thousands of years of ibadat, maybe even millions of years, how could his arrogance have remained? wouldnt it have been removed almost instantly?

Why do you think that if Allah (SWT) would get rid of iblees that all of a sudden everything would be okay. The concept of shaytaan is larger than just iblees. The concept of shaytan, which iblees embodies, is about those that have disregarded Allah's command and have rebelled against Him. The Quran mentions the shayateen among jinn and man, so we shouldn't think that iblees is the source of all satanic forces. Anyone who joins into the camp of rebelling against Allah (SWT) become a type of shaytan.

AFAIK doesnt shaytaan mean "enemy"? so yeah you can have enemies amongst men and jinn. im talking about just THE shaytaan tho. we read repeatedly in the quran and hadith that HE whispers in our ears and HE is responsible for leading us astray and so on.

he is not even an angel, who ARE capable of being almost omnipresent (eg isra'il), he is a jinn who was GRANTED the rights. why - AFTER the fall and his disgrace, was he STILL granted these rights from Allah? do u get me? look at hazrat adam, he disobeyed Allah and was sent to earth and lost his rights to jannat?

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thanks for the post, u said some pretty interesting things man.

no i mean, that much ibadat in the very presence of Allah, MUST have had some positive benefit on iblees, look at us humans, people do so much zikr one of the first things they learn to control is their own nafs. thats over a HUMAN lifetime, maybe 20 - 30 years max. when a being has done hundreds and thousands of years of ibadat, maybe even millions of years, how could his arrogance have remained? wouldnt it have been removed almost instantly?

Generally, ibadaat brings us closer to Allah (SWT), but in certain circumstances, and done with impure intentions, can takes us very far away from Allah. One of those sins that take us very far away is kibr (pride). To read more on how this and other vices can destroy all of our actions I recommend reading Ayatollah Khomeini's "Forty Hadith". He talks about these vices by choosing certain hadith that talk about them and explains very well how they can destroy us. Shaytan fell into this trap and his arrogance lead him to becoming an open enemy of Allah (SWT) after having been an apparently devoted servant.

AFAIK doesnt shaytaan mean "enemy"? so yeah you can have enemies amongst men and jinn. im talking about just THE shaytaan tho. we read repeatedly in the quran and hadith that HE whispers in our ears and HE is responsible for leading us astray and so on.

All iblees does is whisper. He has no control over us at all. Verse 99-100 of Surah Nahl (Bee). says:

Surely he has no authority over those who believe and rely on their Lord.

His authority is only over those who befriend him and those who associate others with Him

There is another verse where iblees will disassociate from us on the day of judgement and say he never made us do anything. He can only whisper it is up to us to decide if we follow his evil whisperings or the clear guidance from Allah (SWT).

he is not even an angel, who ARE capable of being almost omnipresent (eg isra'il), he is a jinn who was GRANTED the rights. why - AFTER the fall and his disgrace, was he STILL granted these rights from Allah? do u get me? look at hazrat adam, he disobeyed Allah and was sent to earth and lost his rights to jannat?

Like I said before he may have been granted those rights so that it would enable him to fall further into disobedience and so that all his past good deeds would be dwarfed by his future bad deeds. Allah (SWT) only knows why he granted the request and Allah (SWT) is the giver of life so it is His decision how long someone should get to live. Adam (as) was always destined for the Earth. He was never supposed to live in paradise. It was always supposed to be a stop on his way to the earth.

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