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In the Name of God بسم الله

Angry Exchange b/w Indian Maulana and Musharaf

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP9JCusfje0

This is the video of an angry exchange between Musharraf and Maulana Mahmood Madani of Jamiat-e-ulema-e-Hind who is also member of Indian parliament. I'd like to know what people on the forum, especially Indians, have to say about Maulana's comments. Let me also quote a few excerpts from an article written by another Indian Muslim jounrlaist, Javed Naqvi and his take on this incident. Please check the video, read the lines below and share your thoughts. Thanks very much.

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". . .Delhi’s city elite applauded a leading Jamiat cleric when he had an angry exchange with Gen Pervez Musharraf at a conclave last week reveals a bit of sociology as well as a slice of history. The tense exchanges between Gen Musharraf and Maulana Mahmood Madani were rooted in pre-Partition history. Jinnah had opposed Gandhi’s campaign with the Jamiat for the restoration of the Khilafat in Turkey. Many Indians would not know this bit of communalism. They believe that khilafat was Urdu for opposition. ‘Humne angrez ki khilafat ki’ i.e ‘We opposed the British’, many an MP is still heard telling parliament inanely. Very few are aware of ‘mukhaalifat’ as the word they are looking for.

Last year, the Jamiat and 6,000 muftis issued a declaration against terrorism. It is not clear if it has given up its core beliefs for the new precept. In 1939, it adopted a resolution to rebuff Gandhi’s non-violence saying: ‘We have accepted non-violence only as a policy. This cannot be accepted as a creed. This is against the teaching of the Quran which encourages the Muslims to jihad.’

The Jamiat also said secular education was dangerous because ‘the children will be indoctrinated in such a way that not only would they be friendly to other religious groups, but they would also consider every religion of the world a true religion. This belief is un-Islamic’. In the 1980s, the Jamiat opposed the Supreme Court verdict to allow alimony for a divorced Muslim woman on the grounds that a secular court could not comment on laws pertaining to Muslims.

However, these factors from the Jamiat’s past could not be the reason for the Indian elite’s resounding applause for Maulana Madani. They were in all probability cheering the fact that an Indian Muslim cleric had stood up to Gen Musharraf, that too when the Pakistani visitor was beginning to count the factors that he thought were responsible for the growing scourge of terrorism in his country and in India.

READ FULL ARTICLE HERE: http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%2...or-hypocrisy-ha

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i think mushy answered pretty well, whats the annotations all about?

The quoted article of Javed Naqvi, an Indian, says it all. This Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Hind is the organisation that preached exclusion and which led to the illiterate and deprived Indian Muslims taking up arms. This organisation followed the agenda of ghettoisation and exclusion of Muslims from the mainstream Indian society. And now their representative is confronting Musharraf [or infact anyone] not to comment upon the situation of Indian Muslims that they had a hand in ruining . Hence the title "Applause for Hypocrisy".

I would agree if it had come from any other Indian Muslim. Because it is important that Pakistan leave Indian Muslims to sort out their own problems. Any Pakistani meddling in their affairs has the potential to create dangers for them inside India.

By the way, their sister organisation, Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Pakistan, are the mentors of Taliban and all other whacko Jihadist/sectarianists in Pakistan.

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By the way, their sister organisation, Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Pakistan, are the mentors of Taliban and all other whacko Jihadist/sectarianists in Pakistan.

mushy should have taken out his gun and shot that urdu gibbering clown in the mouth

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mushy should have taken out his gun and shot that urdu gibbering clown in the mouth

lol. When Mushy was in GHQ, he actively facilitated the strategy whereby he and his cronies nurtured Taliban as assets in Afghanistan. Check the whole video of the India Today seminar. He admits something to the effect that "realities and demands were different during the times of Zia." Read - We had to support Taliban and Mujahideen then. "When I was in power 9/11 happened and things changed. We had to make a new strategy". Read - We had to stop funding and aiding Taliban and like ilk.

Pakistan is reaping what it sowed. Then the intention was to guard the interests of Pakistan but it never worked. Now the Frankenstein's Monster has come home.

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subhanallah very nice video..

musharraf looks like he was beaten with wet shoes by simple indian muslim lolllll

subhanallah very nice video..

musharraf looks like he was beaten with wet shoes by simple indian muslim lolllll

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Pakistan is reaping what it sowed. Then the intention was to guard the interests of Pakistan but it never worked. Now the Frankenstein's Monster has come home.

bro lets be honest, 5 or 6 more "laal masjids" affairs and those haramzadeh taleban waleh would have pissed off back to afghanis[Edited Out] once and for all and left the rest of us alone. mushy was on the right lines whatever happened in the past. the only language they understand is violence, and for a people so desperate to attain shuhada status, they seem pretty keen to save their lives *cough* BURKHA *cough*

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Salaamu-ya-Haq Chaar Baap-o-Jai Shri Krishnan Madad was Salaam

Frankly speaking Pakistan isn't meddling into matters of Indian Muslims & for once these people & their leadership should act realistically sensibly & maturely rather than getting incited on & bickering ceaselessly amongst themselves & the whole world on trivial issues like a Tennis Players clothing or an Overgrown Firangi actress visiting some Dargah. In that case may I know weather the Pakistanis told them to do these things?

Also Being so Rash & anti Pakistan wont get them any where also neither being extremely nationalistic to a state whose system has given them just Broken & false promises as well as distress full situations and out standing grievances wont get them any where. Also heres some important advice to them regarding trivial matters like which side they cheer during cricket Matches i.e. those out for their blood will go for it no matter what regardless of which side they cheered or weather which team won etc so they should better act a bit selfishly when it comes to their interest & survival. Also coming to think of it after the 1971 Defeat of Pakistan werent Indian Muslims subject to a great deal of emotional & Pshycollogical distress when people would point to them & say things like '' Ye Kutte Musaalman Hai'' i.e. Muslim dogs.

So selfishness & sensibility is key for the survival of a community in such a situation not rash behaviour or emotional out bursts. For long it has been that Indian Zakiren like Qalb-e-Sadiq used to come & dictate thing to us but now I think it should be a 2 way traffic besides I cant stand him at all

Bombay Shareef

Bombay Shareef

Bombay Shareef

Seyedna Vidhya Balan (ra)

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musharraf looks like he was beaten with wet shoes by simple indian muslim lolllll

This is the problem sweetie, this is the problem. Have you read the article of your compatriot Javed Naqvi and what he had to say about the Maulana and his organisation?

I agree with the crux of the argument that there should be no Pakistani political interference in the affairs of Indian Muslims. But one has the right to comment upon anything and so Musharraf told them what he thought were the problems. But the opposition of Musharraf's take on the issue coming from a man whose ideology is largely responsible for the backwardness of Muslims. . .is called hypocrisy.

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This is the problem sweetie, this is the problem. Have you read the article of your compatriot Javed Naqvi and what he had to say about the Maulana and his organisation?

I agree with the crux of the argument that there should be no Pakistani political interference in the affairs of Indian Muslims. But one has the right to comment upon anything and so Musharraf told them what he thought were the problems. But the opposition of Musharraf's take on the issue coming from a man whose ideology is largely responsible for the backwardness of Muslims. . .is called hypocrisy.

Perhaps he's 'moderate Taliban' lol. I've heard of certain Deobandi ulama who are actually anti-Taliban.

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mushy should have taken out his gun and shot that urdu gibbering clown in the mouth

How can a dead man shoot?

Mushy looks already he is shot down, and so is every pakistani leader. They are busy killing each other and should stop coming to India with their agenda.

As if Indian's settled in Pakistan are happy with Pakistan.

Mushy, the clown, should restrain himself and manage the terrorist country of his own and stop encouraging cross border terrorism and interfering in others affairs.

As well as you Pakis you already have many problems to solve and should stop poking your clownish red bleeding noses in other affairs.

Jai Hind

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Pakistan should stay away from India or Indian politics for its the Anglo-American hand in the region. Pakistan is sectarian, Pakistan is fanatic, Pakistan is the South Asian Saudi. India, like Iran, is diverse, civil and ancient. Perhaps the Pakistani-Indian rivalry/conflict could be best understood in the context of Saudi-Iran one. Gulf regime could very well one day get a fax from washington and start getting concerned about Iranian Arabs.

nothing good has come out of this colonial outpost thats pakistan. all u get is negative.

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Pakistan should stay away from India or Indian politics for its the Anglo-American hand in the region. Pakistan is sectarian, Pakistan is fanatic, Pakistan is the South Asian Saudi. India, like Iran, is diverse, civil and ancient. Perhaps the Pakistani-Indian rivalry/conflict could be best understood in the context of Saudi-Iran one. Gulf regime could very well one day get a fax from washington and start getting concerned about Iranian Arabs.

nothing good has come out of this colonial outpost thats pakistan. all u get is negative.

Critique of one country on these lines is equally valid for the other. Bias is bad wherever it comes from. You could have put your case with civility and decency or is it too much to ask from you dearie?

Edited by Jibran Haider
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Critique of one country on these lines is equally valid for the other. Bias is bad wherever it comes from. You could have put your case with civility and decency or is it too much to ask from you dearie?

I believe Truth needs to be declared at all costs and in all times. Even if its loud or ugly or corrosive to any man made overlays. Truth is my concern and has my full attention, so much so that it leaves no room to paint and color or sugarcoat. I'd however be thankful if I am guided towards it. Did I not speak the truth? If not, then where and why?

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I believe Truth needs to be declared at all costs and in all times. Even if its loud or ugly or corrosive to any man made overlays. Truth is my concern and has my full attention, so much so that it leaves no room to paint and color or sugarcoat. I'd however be thankful if I am guided towards it. Did I not speak the truth? If not, then where and why?

You spoke bias and hatred and this is what I am up against.

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You spoke bias and hatred and this is what I am up against.

If bias and hatred is what you got from it all then I am sorry for you missed the entire point. Just take a look at this forum and see the sectarian chaos and evils in Pakistan. It however is completely not the case with India or Indian Muslims. I dont know who is living in illusion.

instead of being against bias or hatred focus on leaning towards Truth.

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If bias and hatred is what you got from it all then I am sorry for you missed the entire point. Just take a look at this forum and see the sectarian chaos and evils in Pakistan. It however is completely not the case with India or Indian Muslims. I dont know who is living in illusion.

instead of being against bias or hatred focus on leaning towards Truth.

You speak of this truth as if it is 2+2 = 4 kind of truth. Listen the troubles in Pakistan go back to Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the policies of the swine who went by the name of Zia-ul-Haq. There has never been a civilian riot among Shia-Sunni/Wahhabis in Pakistan (unlike India where ordinary going Hindus and Muslims butchered each other in Gujrat for instance). It clearly tells that Pakistan is no Lebanon. The sectarianism and Jihadism that wrecks the country was purposefully created to be used against the Soviets with the aid of the US. The monster has got out of control. Pakistanis are still reaping what Zia sowed.

You don't want to listen to any of this but instead paint all Pakistanis as some sort of bearded raving fanatics going around killing innocent people, as some kind of religio maniacs suicide bombing everything they can't stand? Get real and see the correct picture. It is your this behaviour which I called bias and hatred. Every sane person here can see that.

Edited by Jibran Haider
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP9JCusfje0

This is the video of an angry exchange between Musharraf and Maulana Mahmood Madani of Jamiat-e-ulema-e-Hind who is also member of Indian parliament. I'd like to know what people on the forum, especially Indians, have to say about Maulana's comments.

I reckon that this Maulana is a typical example of an illeterate and an ill mannered person. I have revised the entire show three times, just cz I like listening to Musharraf. I enjoyed his replies to the very critical and bias questions from the indians.

Salams

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You speak of this truth as if it is 2+2 = 4 kind of truth. Listen the troubles in Pakistan go back to Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the policies of the swine who went by the name of Zia-ul-Haq. There has never been a civilian riot among Shia-Sunni/Wahhabis in Pakistan (unlike India where ordinary going Hindus and Muslims butchered each other in Gujrat for instance). It clearly tells that Pakistan is no Lebanon. The sectarianism and Jihadism that wrecks the country was purposefully created to be used against the Soviets with the aid of the US. The monster has got out of control. Pakistanis are still reaping what Zia sowed.

You don't want to listen to any of this but instead paint all Pakistanis as some sort of bearded raving fanatics going around killing innocent people, as some kind of religio maniacs suicide bombing everything they can't stand? Get real and see the correct picture. It is your this behaviour which I called bias and hatred. Every sane person here can see that.

Truth- Indian Muslims live in far secure environments and in no way harm or have harmed other Muslims around the world.

Truth- Pakistani Muslims live under unsecure conditions and not only live in a sectarian reality but have also harmed Muslims and the Muslim image globally.

Yes- India=Good. Pakistan=Taliban + BinLaden + Lashkare Taiba + 1000 other treachery.

You have inflated the Pakistani concept so much that its blocking your view to reality. Pakistani problem did not start from Zia. It was through Pakistan that US was meddling in Afghan affairs before the Soviet Invasion. The War on Terror celebrity such as Hekmatyar was in training way before the Commies.

Comparing Lebanon or Lebanese problem to South Asian ones is like apples and monkeys. You have to examine the issue within the cultural context.

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Truth- Indian Muslims live in far secure environments and in no way harm or have harmed other Muslims around the world.

Truth- Pakistani Muslims live under unsecure conditions and not only live in a sectarian reality but have also harmed Muslims and the Muslim image globally.

Yes- India=Good. Pakistan=Taliban + BinLaden + Lashkare Taiba + 1000 other treachery.

You have inflated the Pakistani concept so much that its blocking your view to reality. Pakistani problem did not start from Zia. It was through Pakistan that US was meddling in Afghan affairs before the Soviet Invasion. The War on Terror celebrity such as Hekmatyar was in training way before the Commies.

Comparing Lebanon or Lebanese problem to South Asian ones is like apples and monkeys. You have to examine the issue within the cultural context.

Truth = A truckload of bull[Edited Out].

Suggesstion = Carry on

Result = Make a fool of yourself

Benefit = Give people something to laugh

Moral of the Story = It is useless to play flute in front of a cow.

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Pakistan is responsible for everything that goes wrong in the Islamic communities around it including Gujrat. In Afghanistan it gave us Taliban and Ubl. In Iran it has erected Jundullah, It has emboldened the line of communal division for the South Asian Muslim communities. It has served as the sole legitimizer of the Hindu nationalism. Its evil. The entire South Asian Muslim community with Bangladesh could be far better off united as one and without this foreign entity. Then again, England doesnt do anything that harms it. Quite the opposite.

Truth = A truckload of bull[Edited Out].

Suggesstion = Carry on

Result = Make a fool of yourself

Benefit = Give people something to laugh

Moral of the Story = It is useless to play flute in front of a cow.

how many threads informing of shia murders in this forum comes from pakistan and how many from india?

so Taliban, UBL, Lashkar e Taiba, the source of regional spread of wahabism etc are all bull[Edited Out]? and Pakistan, an abstract entity, real? :!!!:

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Pakistan is responsible for everything that goes wrong in the Islamic communities around it including Gujrat. In Afghanistan it gave us Taliban and Ubl. In Iran it has erected Jundullah, It has emboldened the line of communal division for the South Asian Muslim communities. It has served as the sole legitimizer of the Hindu nationalism. Its evil. The entire South Asian Muslim community with Bangladesh could be far better off united as one and without this foreign entity. Then again, England doesnt do anything that harms it. Quite the opposite.

how many threads informing of shia murders in this forum comes from pakistan and how many from india?

so Taliban, UBL, Lashkar e Taiba, the source of regional spread of wahabism etc are all bull[Edited Out]? and Pakistan, an abstract entity, real? :!!!:

ignored.

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ignored.

you could have ignored me without wasting space or your self respect by getting personal. I believe there is reason behind such extravagance.

Anyway, I care less what you think of me or of what I write. The issue is not me but the British created entity thats Pakistan. It has been one of the top three receivers of USAid besides Egypt and Israel. USAid comes with US interest- hence Pakistan an anglo-american entity for anglo american interests. Thats why ALqaida or Talibananas or other figures that harm the Muslim interests and Muslim image did not hail from Iran or India but from Afghanistan and Pakistan.

With USAid came US fellowships in American war colleges. Hence shifting the societal gravity towards the military and subsequently making for a military state- pakistan.

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you could have ignored me without wasting space or your self respect by getting personal. I believe there is reason behind such extravagance.

Anyway, I care less what you think of me or of what I write. The issue is not me but the British created entity thats Pakistan. It has been one of the top three receivers of USAid besides Egypt and Israel. USAid comes with US interest- hence Pakistan an anglo-american entity for anglo american interests. Thats why ALqaida or Talibananas or other figures that harm the Muslim interests and Muslim image did not hail from Iran or India but from Afghanistan and Pakistan.

With USAid came US fellowships in American war colleges. Hence shifting the societal gravity towards the military and subsequently making for a military state- pakistan.

ignored again.

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ignored again.

bush ignores reality too and was apparently less concerned about what people think. To him presidency was not a popularity contest. I guess same goes to your notion of that cancerous British entity that has divided the South Asian Muslim Community into 3, thats the womb of wahabism in South Asia, thats sectarian, violent etc.

the molvi was rude

I believe the Bombay shootings were ruder.

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bush ignores reality too and was apparently less concerned about what people think. To him presidency was not a popularity contest. I guess same goes to your notion of that cancerous British entity that has divided the South Asian Muslim Community into 3, thats the womb of wahabism in South Asia, thats sectarian, violent etc.

I believe the Bombay shootings were ruder.

ignored all over again.

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In conclusion, I must say that its a mistake to be so protective of a foreign entity and foreign concept. Nation State is a European concept that rode on the back of the Protestant Reformation with the slogan of Whose land his Rule. Thats why we see a Europe mostly divided on ethnic lines. But when this concept was exported and imposed on the rest of the world, it hardly had the same blueprint- ethnic groups were divided all over the world and nation states were comprised of them. Punjabis, Bengalis, Kashmiris, Pashtuns, Turks, Uzbeks, Turkmen, Kurds, Arabs, Hutus, Tutsis etc were all and still continue to be separated. Nation State is the main instrument of the Divide and Rule policy of the west. To believe in it in any sort of way is to have fallen for its snare.

ignored all over again.

oh no :(

well if you are blind enough to ignore that cancerous entity thats pakistan despite all its terror and treachery, i wont be surprised if you 'ignored' me. What else is to be expected of those that follow the ideals of a bafoon thats jinnah,

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