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In the Name of God بسم الله

Can Muslims Unite?

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(bismillah)(salam) Wr Wb

I am much too lazy to watch that first video. But i've seen the second one many times! =D

The 'Aimmah are not robots who are completely perfect - they are ma'soom. Their 'ismah is greatly misinterpreted by many, even us Shi'a. It's not that the 'Aimmah cannot sin - they would not. A man came to Imam Zainul 'Abideen [as] and asked him, "How can we take after your example if you cannot sin? It's an impossible feet!" or something as such. The Imam [as] said "It's not that we cannot sin, but we would not. Why don't you remove all your clothing and run down the streets nude?" The man replies "Because of the people watching me!" and the Imam [as] replies "And we would not sin because of the Lord [swt] who watches us."

If we say they cannot sin it would mean they have no free will which is against the Islamic creed.

Wilayatul Takwiniya is a very itchy topic. Sayyid al Khoi [rh] has denounced it in its absolute sense.

��� ����� �� ����� ������ ...����� �� ���� ���� �������� �������� ������ ��� ���� ����� �� ������� ������� ��� ������� �������� ���� ��� ���� �������� �� ����� (�).. ��������� ��� ��� ��� ������ ������ ���� ���� ������ ���� ��� �� ������ ������ ��� ��� �� ������� ������� ��� ������� �������� ���� ��� ���� ������.. ����� ���� �������� ����� ������� ��� ������ ������� ��� ������� �������� ����� ���� ������ ����� ������ ��� ��� ������� ��� �� ������ �� ����� �������[�������: ����� ����� ������: 2 / 73 � 74 ].

HERE IN AL-TANQEEH BY SAYED AL-KHOEI VOLUME 2 PAGE 73/74

HE SAID THAT the matters of takween are all controlled by Allah alone and also tashree3, so believing in the wilayat takweeniyat for the imam ali or the others IS DENYING ONE OF THE NECESSARY BELIEFS SO THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT BELIEVING SUCH THINK MAKES THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE KAFFIR

This does not mean there isn't an authority given. 'Isa [as] was given an authority by the permission of Allah [swt] to raise the dead and give it life, to cure the blind and leper, and give the clays birds life by the permission of Allah [swt] Just like Rasoolullah [saww] split the moon in 2 by the permission of Allah[swt]. Just as Malik al Mawt "delivers" death and removes the soul by the permission of Allah[swt]. Just like Allah [swt] has given assigned Angels over several affairs like the movement of the Sun and Moon. All by His [swt] permission.

Allah [swt] is the all-independent. All else is subject to Him [swt] and the all-dependent.

And it is related from Zurara that he said: I said to Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq that a man from among the descendants of 'Abdu'l-lah b. Saba' is a believer in (the doctrine of) delegation (tafwid). And he said: And what is tafwid? I (Zurara) said: According to him Allah, the Mighty and Glorious, (in the first instance) created Muhammad and 'Ali, and then delegated the matter (of creation) to them, and these two created and gave sustenance, and caused life and death. The Imam said: He, the enemy of Allah, has lied. When you return to him recite to him the verse of the Chapter of The Thunder: "Or assign they unto Allah partners who created the like of His creation so that the creation (which they made and His creation) seemed alike to them? Say: Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is the One, the Al-mighty" [13, 16]. Then I went to the man and informed him of what Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq had said: And he became as if I had forced him to swallow stones or as though he were struck dumb.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

About the Quranic verses you have quoted they all are truth and we also believe that The Quran itself can explain of other verses and they are all clear message. And we also use this method and support it. Example you can read wonderful Tafsir Al Mizan, where 'Allamah Tabataba'i explain Quranic verses using other Quranic verses. Giving many different suggestion of the meaning of the Quranic verses and eliminated the untruth suggestion which are contradiction with Holy Quran.

But of course we have the other layer, the TRADITIONS (Hadiths) of the 12 imams where they also have their knowledge about the Quranic verses. The rule for this is that these hadiths must support The Holy Quran and not been contradiction with Holy Quran.

Brother Zufa , I pray and hope that soon you will be among the Pure Muslims who thinks the Book of Allah as the only guidance for salvation . Now a battle is taking place in you between your brain and your heart . Your logic, rationality and acumen is pushing you to admit the Quran as a sufficient source of Islam but your emotion, inherit beliefs and human veneration etc. are trying to drag you to the same old place .

Well , let me ask you the same Question which I ask Zahra . If Ahle Bayat must to explain the Quran , then they must had left the Tafsir/Hadith books on this . Please cite me details of those books . I prefer Ali , Hasan or Hussain as the authors of those books because they were the prime members of Ahle Bayat and they had seen and observed Prophet Muhammad (p) from so close what the latter members of Ahle Bayat didn’t do . I also add the same demand as I ask from Zahra , don’t give me any illustration like Bukhari which had been written 200+ years latter the Prophet died and labeled a plain lies ‘Qala Qala Rasulullah’ . I hope you understand what I want to mean .

Peace to you .

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Imam Khomeini on Islamic Unity

"Today, world peace is such that all countries are under the political influence of the superpowers; they observe a control everywhere and have schemes for defeating every group. The most important of these is sowing discord among brothers.

Muslims should be awake, Muslims should be alert that if a dispute takes place among Sunni and Shi'ite brothers, it is harmful to all of us, it is harmful to all Muslims. Those who want to sow discord are neither Sunni nor Shi'ite, they are agents of the superpowers and work for them.

Those who attempt to cause discord among our Sunni and Shi'ite brothers are people who conspire for the enemies of Islam and want the enemies of Islam to triumph over Muslims. They are the supporters of America and some are supporters of the Soviet Union.

I hope that through considering this Islamic precept - that all Muslims are brothers - all Islamic countries will triumph against the superpowers and succeed in actualizing all Islamic ordinances.

Muslims are brothers and will not be segregated by the pseudo-propaganda sponsored by corrupt elements. The source of this matter - that Shi'ites should be on one side and Sunni on the other - is on the one hand ignorance and on the other hand propaganda of the foreigners.

If Islamic brotherhood comes to the fore among Islamic countries, such will become a great power which none of the global powers will be able to cope with.

Shi'ites and Sunnis brothers should avoid every kind of dispute. Today, discord among us will only benefit those who follow neither Shi'ia nor Hanafi. They neither want this nor that to exist, and know the way to sow dispute between you and us. We must pay attention that we are all Muslims and we all believe in the Qur'an; we all belive in Tawheed and must work to serve the Qur'an and Tawheed."

http://www.inminds.co.uk/imam-khomeini-on-unity.html

maybe everything has changed sine Mr. Khomeini has died. look at this pls

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1852875

where are you from anyway? see the facts pls. dont talk from dreams and dreamlands.

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Brother Zufa , I pray and hope that soon you will be among the Pure Muslims who thinks the Book of Allah as the only guidance for salvation . Now a battle is taking place in you between your brain and your heart . Your logic, rationality and acumen is pushing you to admit the Quran as a sufficient source of Islam but your emotion, inherit beliefs and human veneration etc. are trying to drag you to the same old place .

Peace to you .

(bismillah)

(salam)

I thank you for your praying. And Dear Roka, I will pray and asking Allah (SWT) about you for satying your whole life on the path of Islam. Insha Allah.

Well , let me ask you the same Question which I ask Zahra . If Ahle Bayat must to explain the Quran , then they must had left the Tafsir/Hadith books on this . Please cite me details of those books . I prefer Ali , Hasan or Hussain as the authors of those books because they were the prime members of Ahle Bayat and they had seen and observed Prophet Muhammad (p) from so close what the latter members of Ahle Bayat didn’t do . I also add the same demand as I ask from Zahra , don’t give me any illustration like Bukhari which had been written 200+ years latter the Prophet died and labeled a plain lies ‘Qala Qala Rasulullah’ . I hope you understand what I want to mean .

Unfortunately i do not know any Complete Tafsir Al-Quran books writed by Ahlulbait (a) itself which is available with us today. But there are books and hadiths which by the Imams itself have been writed down, teached and disseminated by their sons, companions and the subsequent generations. You can also find these same teaching and writing in the collection books by scholars and companions which is available with us today. I'm not a expert with the Science of hadiths and track them, so i recommend you to ask member called "macisaac" and "Jondab_Azdi" about it.

Hadiths are writed, collected, traced and destroyed by peoples. And there are hadiths which are not authentic but some are authentic and truth by their classification and supporting of Holy Quran. This is the reason why i not deny "Hadiths". And i do not see any problem with accepting such a hadith which is authentic and supporting and not contradiction with Holy Quran.

What About Quran?...Well this is Imam Ali (as) saying in Nahjul Balagha about Qur'an:

And know that this Qur'an is an adviser who never deceives, a leader who never misleads and a narrator who never speaks a lie. No one will sit beside this Qur'an but that when he rises he will achieve one addition or one diminution - addition in his guidance or elimination in his (spiritual) blindness. You should also know that no one will need anything after (guidance from) the Qur'an and no one will be free from want before (guidance from) the Qur'an. Therefore, seek cure from it for your ailments and seek its assistance in your distresses. It contains a cure for the biggest diseases, namely unbelief, hypocrisy, revolt and misguidance. Pray to Allah through it and turn to Allah with its love. Do not ask the people through it. There is nothing like it through which the people should turn to Allah, the Sublime.

Know that it is an interceder and its intercession will be accepted. It is a speaker who is testified. For whoever the Qur'an intercedes on the Day of Judgement, its intercession for him would be accepted. He about whom the Qur'an speaks ill on the Day of Judgement shall testify to it. On the Day of Judgement an announcer will announce, "Beware. every sower of a crop is in distress except the sowers of the Qur'an." Therefore, you should be among the sowers of the Qur'an and its followers. Make it your guide towards Allah. Seek its advice for yourselves, do not trust your views against it. and regard your desires in the matter of the Qur'an as deceitful.

This is why when i always read this hadith, i always think that it is all in Quran what we need.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I thank you for your praying. And Dear Roka, I will pray and asking Allah (SWT) about you satying your whole life on the path of Islam. Insha Allah.

Unfortunately i do not know any Complete Tafsir Al-Quran books writed by Ahlulbait (a) itself which is available with us today. But there are books and hadiths which by the Imams itself have been writed down, teached and disseminated by their sons, companions and the subsequent generations. You can also find these same teaching and writing in the collection books by scholars and companions which is available with us today. I'm not a expert with the Science of hadiths and track them, so i recommend you to ask member called "macisaac" about it.

Hadiths are writed, collected, traced and destroyed by peoples. And there are hadiths which are not authentic but some are authentic and truth. By their classification and supporting of Holy Quran. This is the reason why i not deny "Hadiths". And i do not see any problem with accepting such a hadith which is authentic and supporting and not contradiction with Holy Quran.

What About Quran?...Well this is Imam Ali (as) saying in Nahjul Balagha about Qur'an:

And know that this Qur'an is an adviser who never deceives, a leader who never misleads and a narrator who never speaks a lie. No one will sit beside this Qur'an but that when he rises he will achieve one addition or one diminution - addition in his guidance or elimination in his (spiritual) blindness. You should also know that no one will need anything after (guidance from) the Qur'an and no one will be free from want before (guidance from) the Qur'an. Therefore, seek cure from it for your ailments and seek its assistance in your distresses. It contains a cure for the biggest diseases, namely unbelief, hypocrisy, revolt and misguidance. Pray to Allah through it and turn to Allah with its love. Do not ask the people through it. There is nothing like it through which the people should turn to Allah, the Sublime.

Know that it is an interceder and its intercession will be accepted. It is a speaker who is testified. For whoever the Qur'an intercedes on the Day of Judgement, its intercession for him would be accepted. He about whom the Qur'an speaks ill on the Day of Judgement shall testify to it. On the Day of Judgement an announcer will announce, "Beware. every sower of a crop is in distress except the sowers of the Qur'an." Therefore, you should be among the sowers of the Qur'an and its followers. Make it your guide towards Allah. Seek its advice for yourselves, do not trust your views against it. and regard your desires in the matter of the Qur'an as deceitful.

This is why when i always read this hadith, i always think that it is all in Quran what we need.

I think you started to realize the cojectures of Tafsir and Hadith .......

May be my Prayer will be heeded by Almighty very soon . I pray to see an undivided Muslim nation ruling the world with justice as it was during the time of the Prophet .

JazakAllah .

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From this awesome principle of Allah , the Most High as constructed in His book , we can glean two points very easily :

01- All Islamic laws, legislations , rituals , beliefs etc. which can be categorized under ‘Usule Din’ are clearly mentioned in the Quran . There are no chances of ambiguity ,short-comings , confusions or incompleteness in those verses . We certainly have no necessity to peep into other books apart from the Quran to know and understand them .

02- Those allegorical verses are not the foundation of Islam . We are told to believe them only, without arguing its multiple meanings which are not so clear .

In fact Shia and Sunni are the victims of the 02nd point here . They invented a series of Hadith books and Tafsir books to unveil those multiple meanings of the Quran and waged war against one another to shove them to swallow it . As a consequence due to Allah’s wrath they are divided into pieces and humiliated by the non-Muslims. More heartbreaking in the fact that they also refused to admit point no. 01 by propagating that the Quran is not clear at all on the basic beliefs of a Muslim . Hence they need some human-gods like Ahle Bayat or Sahbas etc. to explain them . According to Almighty Allah they are the doers of Fitnah on this earth (it is literary true when somebody sees a thousand years history of these two sects on their blood-shed activities in the name of Islam ).

åæ ÇáÐí ÇäÒá Úáíß ÇáßÊÈ ãäå ÁÇíÊ ãÍßãÊ åä Çã ÇáßÊÈ æÇÎÑ ãÊÔÈåÊ ÝÇãÇ ÇáÐíä Ýí ÞáæÈåã ÒíÛ ÝíÊÈÚæä ãÇ ÊÔÈå ãäå ÇÈÊÛÇÁ ÇáÝÊäÉ æÇÈÊÛÇÁ ÊÇæíáå æãÇ íÚáã ÊÇæíáå ÇáÇ Çááå æÇáÑÓÎæä Ýí ÇáÚáã íÞæáæä ÁÇãäÇ Èå ßá ãä ÚäÏ ÑÈäÇ æãÇ íÐßÑ ÇáÇ ÇæáæÇ ÇáÇáÈÇÈ

It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Quran). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book (and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkam (commandments, etc.), Al-Faraid (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers, etc.)); and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials, etc.), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah, and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding.

Would you pls tell me who are these "those who are firmly grounded in knowledge"? and tell me why they have been mentioned here in this verse? And could you tell me why you changed the comma to a period and capitalize and? does it make any sense to you that in the middle of a sentence a new sentence? I can talk over this so much that it compiles pages. So I'm not talking about this. Only I’d like to notify that there are these firmly grounded in knowledge people who know the Tawil (hidden meaning ) of these verses. So there are some people who know. The only thing is to identify these people. We have done it. We believe that the t'wil of ayaat is with Ahlulbayt A. they are the firmly grounded in knowledge and it has been confirmed by Prophet saww when he saww said "I am the city of Knowledge and Ali is the door of it" ÇäÇ ãÏیäÉ ÇáÚáã æ Úáی ÈÇÈåÇ

if you are follower of omar tell me what will be the use of allegorical ayas that neither ordinary people like us nor Ma'sumin know the ta'wil of which? Are you telling me that God has done useless na'ouzobellah?

Sister , to guard your Iman , you must read the Quran without any bias from your Ayatullahs . This comment can take you to the Jahannam , if you are not making Tauba NOW NOW . None of your Imams or none of your Aytollahs can save you from that . Why I am saying so , because you spoke something horrendous and blaspheme against the Word of the Lord of the Universe , Allah . Let me quote some of His profound claims about His own book , the Quran which clearly found you at the dark side :

After reading the above verses , you will be the judge by of your own whether you need Tafsir for the Koran or not . But here may I not ask you BUT CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW ME ANY TAFSIR BOOK/HADITH BOOK WRITTEN BY YOUR AHLE BAYAT .

Ali , Hasan and Hossain - all of them were too much intimate to the Prophet Muhammad (p) . They saw him , listened to his teachings and obeyed him . Now produce me a book written by any of them which you labeled as Hadith/Tafsir/Sirah or whatever . Don’t play hide and seek like the Sunni - Bukhari collected all those lies against Prophet Muhammad (p) 200+ years after his heavenly death but wrote in his books ‘Qala Qala Rasulullah’ . I don’t want those type of irrational stuffs . Prove me nice and fairly that indeed the prime members of Ahle Bayat left Tafsir/Hadith for us .

I like sth about you sunni people, and it is your being really funny. Can you say that God's words did not exist only because it wasnot collected (as you calim) in a book? Did people at the Sadrol eslam say such a thing? not at tall since it is not logical. So how the people go to use quran? Simply there were some people who had memorized quran and they were reliable. Those who need to now about quran's verses would go to tem and ask about Quran's veses. Also there were people who did have some parts of quran written down. Ths was another reference for the people in need of quran.

The tafasir we get use from is exactly like that. We have some reliable narrator, who are identified by rejall ulama of our sect (like that of sunnis). The ahadith narrated by tese people are considered reliable. So no invention and no fabricating at all. The whole thing existed but it as been collected in different books under different name to satisfy different needs.

As you discard the first one , i.e., the Muhareb hand , may I proceed with the 02nd . Before that I must remind you : One verse of the Quran explains the other verses . And this the best tafsir . The word ‘Tafsir’ mentioned in the Quran to denote the Quran itself , not to any other books . Moreover the Adjective ‘ Ahsan’ (most excellent) before it confirms that the Explanation of any fact in the Quran by the Quran itself is the most excellent method to do it . Check the following verse :

[25:32] æÞÇá ÇáÐíä ßÝÑæÇ áæáÇ äÒá Úáíå ÇáÞÑÁÇä ÌãáÉ æÍÏÉ ßÐáß áäËÈÊ Èå ÝÄÇÏß æÑÊáäå ÊÑÊíáÇ

[25:33] æáÇ íÇÊæäß ÈãËá ÇáÇ ÌÆäß ÈÇáÍÞ æÇÍÓä ÊÝÓíÑÇ

Translation :

And those who disbelieve say, `Why was not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once ?' WE have revealed it in this manner that WE may strengthen thy heart therewith. And WE have arranged it in the Best form.

And no question do they bring to thee but We reveal to thee the truth and the ‘Ahsan Tafsir’ . .[/font]

Hence to answer those two hands in question, I am obliged to follow the Principle of my LORD by using the Quran alone as the Tafsir .

(02.) Taymmom Hands :

The related verse in this issue is :

[005:006] O ye who believe ! when you stand up for Prayer, wash your faces, and your hands up to the elbows, and pass your wet hands over your heads and ‘rub’ your feet to the ankles. And if you be unclean, purify yourselves by bathing. And if you are ill or you are on a journey while unclean, or one of you comes from the privy or you have touched women, and find not water, betake yourselves to pure dust and wipe therewith your faces and your hands. Allah desires not that HE should place you in a difficulty but HE desires to purify you and to complete HIS favour upon you, so that you may be grateful.

The verse is pretty clear in the fact that Tayammum is the easier substitute of Wudu for the restless and unusual conditions that a Muslim passes through . Hence as in the Wudu it is mentioned that the hands should be washed till the elbows by water , in Tayammum the same length of the hands should be rubbed by the pure earth . Simple .

The Arabic translation of the verse you have mentioned has got 2 famsahou (ÝÇãÓÍæÇ).

1. for wodhu

2. 2.for tayamom

in the one for wodhu it says æÇãÓÍæÇ ÈÑÄæÓ˜ã æ ÇÑÌá˜ã Çáی Çá˜ÚÈیä while in the tayamom part it only says ÝÇãÓÍæÇ ÈÑÄæÓ˜ã æ ÇیÏی˜ã. Hence, one does not knpw to which extend one should continue it. Anyway, I don’t see any term as "betaken in the dust" in the Arabic verse and I don’t know where you got it. One might again do the tayanmom with water but like that in wodhu only rubs the wet hands over one's body. So here you are supposed to clear out 2 things

1. to what extend one should continue this rubbing (ãÓÍ)

2. how one can get this is rubbing in the dust and not with water.

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Now let us setup an analogy between these two verses . Both of the verses use the same wording , i.e., ‘qata’ means to cut and ‘aydiya’ means hands . In Sura Yusuf the women were amazed to see Yusuf (p) and unconsciously cut their hands . Was it possible for them to cut off their own hands from the elbows or from the wrist ? Of course not . In fact they were human being and it was impossible for them to chop off their own hands in that manner with a mare knife . The verse also informs us that those women were invited to a party and knives were given to them , which could be to cut some fruits or cakes . If they missed to cut fruits or whatever it might be when watching Joseph’s beauty , the best they could cut were their fingers or palms . With moderate bleeding , it could have created a wound in their hands , not more than that . In the verse we also informed that after cutting their hands , they even talked like a normal human , not like a person groaning with sever pain .

Therefore in the light of 12:31 we can draw a certain limit of the Punishment for the thieves and that is to cut their palms or fingers deeply so that mark is visible to expose their crime .

You will find that the Most Merciful Allah always give chances to His sinful servants to comeback to the right path though may be his crime is horrendous enough to have a capital punishment . That is the very reason Allah , the Most beneficent states just after the verse of the punishment of thieves :

If one repents after committing this crime, and reforms, God redeems him. God is Forgiver, Merciful. (5:39)

Now a matter of logic to ponder here : if the hands of the thieves are chopped off from the wrist or from the elbows , are that part of the hand going to grow again ? No not . Then after being repented how he/she will be compensated? The Most Merciful Allah could not have instituted such brutal punishment for a thief which can not be retractable . May be he was forced to do the theft due to feed his/her family or to pay money to doctor for his/her child’s sickness etc. For stealing only few Dinnars , how can we chop off his hand which is priceless and make him/her handicap for the rest of his/her life ?

Please , think about it .

these are all your interpretations over ayas and not acceptable then.

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åæ ÇáÐí ÇäÒá Úáíß ÇáßÊÈ ãäå ÁÇíÊ ãÍßãÊ åä Çã ÇáßÊÈ æÇÎÑ ãÊÔÈåÊ ÝÇãÇ ÇáÐíä Ýí ÞáæÈåã ÒíÛ ÝíÊÈÚæä ãÇ ÊÔÈå ãäå ÇÈÊÛÇÁ ÇáÝÊäÉ æÇÈÊÛÇÁ ÊÇæíáå æãÇ íÚáã ÊÇæíáå ÇáÇ Çááå æÇáÑÓÎæä Ýí ÇáÚáã íÞæáæä ÁÇãäÇ Èå ßá ãä ÚäÏ ÑÈäÇ æãÇ íÐßÑ ÇáÇ ÇæáæÇ ÇáÇáÈÇÈ

It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Quran). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book (and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkam (commandments, etc.), Al-Faraid (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers, etc.)); and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials, etc.), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah, and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding.

Would you pls tell me who are these "those who are firmly grounded in knowledge"? and tell me why they have been mentioned here in this verse? And could you tell me why you changed the comma to a period and capitalize and? does it make any sense to you that in the middle of a sentence a new sentence? I can talk over this so much that it compiles pages. So I'm not talking about this. Only I’d like to notify that there are these firmly grounded in knowledge people who know the Tawil (hidden meaning ) of these verses. So there are some people who know. The only thing is to identify these people. We have done it. We believe that the t'wil of ayaat is with Ahlulbayt A. they are the firmly grounded in knowledge and it has been confirmed by Prophet saww when he saww said "I am the city of Knowledge and Ali is the door of it" ÇäÇ ãÏیäÉ ÇáÚáã æ Úáی ÈÇÈåÇ

if you are follower of omar tell me what will be the use of allegorical ayas that neither ordinary people like us nor Ma'sumin know the ta'wil of which? Are you telling me that God has done useless na'ouzobellah?

You have shifted from our core discussion to some other issue . Any way still my point remains alive : the basic beliefs of Islam are described very clearly in the Quran , hence no need of any human-gods like Ahle Bayat or Sahabas to explain those verses to us .

Neither Allah , the Almighty nor I that much worry about those allegorical verses . Allah the Exalted instructed us not to bargain high and low about those verses and better just to believe them . Simple like ABC .

‘Those who are firmly grounded in knowledge’ can be referred to any body . Ahle Bayat could not manage to discover the speed of light , micro-computer, satellite communication, electricity , big-bang theory , the relation between energy and matter etc. from the Quran but so many guys did it . It means those guys are the subject of the verse when Allah address ‘Those who are firmly grounded in knowledge’ . The door of this title opens for ever . But if you are insisting on Ahle Bayat only then I don’t accuse Qadiani to refer it to Gulam Mirza or Bahai to Bab .

I like sth about you sunni people, and it is your being really funny. Can you say that God's words did not exist only because it wasnot collected (as you calim) in a book? Did people at the Sadrol eslam say such a thing? not at tall since it is not logical. So how the people go to use quran? Simply there were some people who had memorized quran and they were reliable. Those who need to now about quran's verses would go to tem and ask about Quran's veses. Also there were people who did have some parts of quran written down. Ths was another reference for the people in need of quran.

The tafasir we get use from is exactly like that. We have some reliable narrator, who are identified by rejall ulama of our sect (like that of sunnis). The ahadith narrated by tese people are considered reliable. So no invention and no fabricating at all. The whole thing existed but it as been collected in different books under different name to satisfy different needs.

Now you started . To defend your belief , you even strike on the compilation of the Quran . The way the Quran was compiled , only I can say , done by Allah , the Almighty with earthly instrument . Our Lord assures us in this respect :

[041:041] Surely those who disbelieve in the reminder when it comes to them, and most surely it is a Mighty Book:

[041:042] Falsehood cannot come at it from before it or from behind it. (It is) a revelation from the Wise, the Owner of Praise.

Do you have any assurance like the above for the hadith/Tafsir books ? Leave Bukhari for now , what about your Usule Kafi ? Usul al-Kafi includes 15,176 traditions. If the traditions reported in different sections are counted, an additional 1,000 must be added to the total amount. Of the basic traditions, 5,072 are considered sahih (sound); 144 are regarded as hasan (good), second category; 178 are held to be muwaththaq (trustworthy), third category; 302 are adjudged to be qaui (strong), fourth category; and 9,484 are considered da'if (weak), fifth category. Shaikh Saduq, didn't believe complete authenticity of Al-Kafi. Khoei points this out in his Mu'jam Rijaal al-Hadith, or "Collection of Men of Narrations", in which he states

Ãäø ÇáÔíÎ ÇáÕÏæÞ : ÞÏøÓ ÓÑøå : áã íßä íÚÊÞÏ ÕÍøÉ ÌãíÚ ãÇÝí ÇáßÇÝí

"Shaykh as-Sadūq did not regard all of the traditions in al-Kafi to be Sahih (truthful).

Al-Khoei also states in his Mu'jam (on the same referenced page):

"áÇäø ÝíåÇ ãÑÓáÇÊ æÝíåÇ ÑæÇíÇÊ Ýí ÇÓäÇÏåÇ ãÌÇåíá¡ æãä ÅÔÊåÑ ÈÇáæÖÚ æÇáßÐÈ¡"

There is within it (al-Kafi) traditions, whose chains of narration contain (known) ignorants, liars and fabricators."

[ http://www.alkhoei.net/data/almaktaba/m_r/01/p3.html]

I can add more comments from your own Ulema regarding the issue , but let me feel suffice for now because those are open secrets for Shia though they follow Hadith . Hence to compare the collection of the Quran with that of the Hdith/Tafsir is nothing but to compare an fresh red apple with a rotten worm-eaten apple .

Again my point still prevails : no books from Ahle Bayat .

The Arabic translation of the verse you have mentioned has got 2 famsahou (ÝÇãÓÍæÇ).

1. for wodhu

2. 2.for tayamom

in the one for wodhu it says æÇãÓÍæÇ ÈÑÄæÓ˜ã æ ÇÑÌá˜ã Çáی Çá˜ÚÈیä while in the tayamom part it only says ÝÇãÓÍæÇ ÈÑÄæÓ˜ã æ ÇیÏی˜ã. Hence, one does not knpw to which extend one should continue it. Anyway, I don’t see any term as "betaken in the dust" in the Arabic verse and I don’t know where you got it. One might again do the tayanmom with water but like that in wodhu only rubs the wet hands over one's body. So here you are supposed to clear out 2 things

1. to what extend one should continue this rubbing (ãÓÍ)

2. how one can get this is rubbing in the dust and not with water.

For the rest of the post I describe my opinion by using the Quranic verses . Hence I don’t think I am wrong .

Thank .

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HOW SHIA AND SUNNI CAN BE UNITED ?

I think this is the most hard nut to crack question ever Muslim Ummah faced . There are thousands of issues that Shia and Sunni had been disputing about and seems like there is no way out of it . But hold on. There are really something common to them .

- The ONE and ONLY Almighty GOD Allah, to WHOM all Shia and Sunni dedicated their worships .

- The last and Final Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him) whom all Shia and Sunni love and respect from the very bottom of their hearts .

- The glorious Qur’an - the final Testament revealed from Allah , the Omnipotent . A very admirable thing that both of them got - exactly same , unaltered and intact letter-to-letter .

Then let us make our motto e : ‘ ONE GOD-Allah , ONE MESSENGER-MUHAMMAD , ONE BOOK-THE QUR’AN’ .

- Don’t let any other gods come in side your minds. Just think about Allah , the Majestic each and every second of your life .

- Don’t undertake praiseful discussion about any other persons from this Ummah apart from our Prophet Muhammad (p) since Allah , the Most Exalted praised him alone from this Ummah and didn’t care about any one else .

- Make the Qur’an your engine for any decision you want to take . Don’t let any human-composed books be your way of life even for a tiny affair . Let this Qur’an be our breath in our international, national , social , economical , familiar and personal matters .

Thanks .

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SHIA+SUNNI UNITY : COMMEMORATION OF Allah (SWT) ALONE NOT OF HUMAN

It is usually seen that Shia and Sunni are spending most of their times to praise , to venerate and to remember human . Shia do it for Ahle Bayat and Sunni do it for Sahaba . Instead remembering Allah , the Almighty they keep themselves busy in those indirect human worship . Of course in that case they have a similarity with Christians who always commemorating Jesus (p) thinking GOD is happy with it . But Allah (swt) sends us in this world to glorify , to worship and to commemorate HIM only . Each second of our lives should be dedicated in HIS remembrance only . Human veneration in too much extent is nothing but a form of Shirk. The time and the effort that we are giving behind those human praise should be preserved for our LORD’s praise . Allah (swt) says :

[25:58] You shall put your trust in the One who is Alive - the One who never dies - and praise Him and glorify Him. He is fully Cognizant of His creatures' sins.

[5:44] ….. Therefore, do not reverence human beings; you shall reverence Me instead. …..

The overwhelming numbers of verses that can be found in the Quran in connection with the commemoration of Allah (swt) are shoving us to realize that if human admiration occupies 05 minutes of our day , the rest of 23 hrs and 55 mins should be dedicated for Allah’s (swt) glorification . But unfortunately we Muslims do just opposite . We are holding meeting , programs , seminars to discuss about our saints , imams , ancestors – investing our valuable time , money and even lives to do so thinking Allah (swt) will give us reward . For what ? For excess veneration of the saints ? No way . Allah (swt) wants us to venerate HIM alone – night and day , sitting and walking , before sleeping and after awaking .

Think my Sunni and Shia brothers and sisters . Lets be united under the guidance of GOD , the Almighty . Take out human beings from your hearts and minds and establish Allah (swt) alone there . Lets ponder on a few gems from the immense ocean :

[17:44] GLORIFYing Him are the seven universes, the earth, and everyone in them. There is nothing that does not GLORIFY Him, but you do not understand their glorification. He is Clement, Forgiver.

[20:130] Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and GLORIFY your Lord before sunrise and before sunset. And during the night GLORIFY Him, as well as at both ends of the day, that you may be happy.

[21:20] They GLORIFY night and day, without ever tiring.

[24:36] (God's guidance is found) in houses exalted by GOD, for His name is commemorated therein. GLORIFYing Him therein, day and night -

[30:17] Therefore, you shall GLORIFY GOD when you retire at night, and when you rise in the morning.

[32:15] The only people who truly believe in our revelations are those who fall prostrate upon hearing them. They GLORIFY and praise their Lord, without any arrogance.

[33:42] You shall GLORIFY Him day and night.

[38:18] We committed the mountains in his service, GLORIFYing with him night and day.

[39:75] You will see the angels floating around the throne, GLORIFYing and praising their Lord. After the equitable judgment is issued to all, it will be proclaimed: "Praise be to GOD, Lord of the universe."

[40:7] Those who serve the throne and all those around it GLORIFY and praise their Lord, and believe in Him. And they ask forgiveness for those who believe: "Our Lord, Your mercy and Your knowledge encompass all things. Forgive those who repent and follow Your path, and spare them the retribution of Hell.

[40:55] Therefore, be patient, for GOD's promise is true, and ask forgiveness for your sin, and GLORIFY and praise your Lord night and day.

[41:38] If they are too arrogant to do this, then those at your Lord GLORIFY Him night and day, without ever tiring.

[42:5] The heavens above them almost shatter, out of reverence for Him, and the angels praise and GLORIFY their Lord, and they ask forgiveness for those on earth. Absolutely, GOD is the Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[48:9] That you people may believe in GOD and His messenger, and reverence Him, and observe Him, and GLORIFY Him, day and night.

[50:39] Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and GLORIFY your Lord before sunrise, and before sunset.

[52:48] You shall steadfastly persevere in carrying out your Lord's command - you are in our eyes - and GLORIFY and praise your Lord when you get up.

[52:49] Also during the night GLORIFY Him, and at dawn as the stars fade away.

[56:96] You shall GLORIFY the name of your Lord, the Great.

[57:1] GLORIFYing GOD is everything in the heavens and the earth. He is the Almighty, Most Wise.

[59:24] He is the One GOD; the Creator, the Initiator, the Designer. To Him belong the most beautiful names. GLORIFYing Him is everything in the heavens and the earth. He is the Almighty, Most Wise.

[61:1] GLORIFYing GOD is everything in the heavens and everything on earth. He is the Almighty, Most Wise.

[69:52] Therefore, you shall GLORIFY the name of your Lord, Most Great.

[76:26] During the night, fall prostrate before Him, and GLORIFY Him many a long night.

[87:1] GLORIFY the name of your Lord, the Most High.

[110:3] You shall GLORIFY and praise your Lord, and implore Him for forgiveness. He is the Redeemer.

[8:45] O you who believe, when you encounter an army, you shall hold fast and COMMEMORATE GOD frequently, that you may succeed.

[20:34] "And COMMEMORATE You frequently.

[22:28] They may seek commercial benefits, and they shall COMMEMORATE GOD's name during the specified days for providing them with livestock. "Eat therefrom and feed the despondent and the poor."

[22:34] For each congregation we have decreed rites whereby they COMMEMORATE the name of GOD for providing them with the livestock. Your god is one and the same god; you shall all submit to Him. Give good news to the obedient.

[24:36] (God's guidance is found) in houses exalted by GOD, for His name is COMMEMORATEd therein. Glorifying Him therein, day and night -

[73:8] You shall COMMEMORATE the name of your Lord, to come ever closer and closer to Him.

[74:7] Steadfastly COMMEMORATE your Lord.

[76:25] And COMMEMORATE the name of your Lord day and night.

Thanks.

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Guest Zahrah
You have shifted from our core discussion to some other issue . Any way still my point remains alive : the basic beliefs of Islam are described very clearly in the Quran , hence no need of any human-gods like Ahle Bayat or Sahabas to explain those verses to us .

Neither Allah , the Almighty nor I that much worry about those allegorical verses . Allah the Exalted instructed us not to bargain high and low about those verses and better just to believe them . Simple like ABC .

‘Those who are firmly grounded in knowledge’ can be referred to any body .

Like you? and not Ahlolbayt? I wonder why this verse' has been sent the holy heart of Prophet saww while some guided one like you thinks that anybody can understand Quran's allegorical verses.

Ahle Bayat could not manage to discover the speed of light , micro-computer, satellite communication, electricity , big-bang theory , the relation between energy and matter etc. from the Quran but so many guys did it . It means those guys are the subject of the verse when Allah address ‘Those who are firmly grounded in knowledge’ . The door of this title opens for ever . But if you are insisting on Ahle Bayat only then I don’t accuse Qadiani to refer it to Gulam Mirza or Bahai to Bab .

to tell you the truth they did. they didnt need to discover it from Quran, they knew it themselves. if they didnt talk to all the people about such matters it was not bc they didnt know it was because the people around them didnt have that much understanding and didnt need t know such things at that time. your point is rediculous. just because someone does not talk about sth that does not mean this person does not have any knowledge over it. Like Einstain himself, who knew a lot about the relative theory but was always expelled from the classroom because he was considered by some knowledgable (or better to say some who thought were knowledgable) teachers.

Now you started . To defend your belief , you even strike on the compilation of the Quran . The way the Quran was compiled , only I can say , done by Allah , the Almighty with earthly instrument . Our Lord assures us in this respect :

[041:041] Surely those who disbelieve in the reminder when it comes to them, and most surely it is a Mighty Book:

[041:042] Falsehood cannot come at it from before it or from behind it. (It is) a revelation from the Wise, the Owner of Praise</B>.

I ddint say Quran is incomplete. I said it needed interpretation as Quran itself reveals in Ali Imran surrah.

Do you have any assurance like the above for the hadith/Tafsir books ? Leave Bukhari for now , what about your Usule Kafi ? Usul al-Kafi includes 15,176 traditions. If the traditions reported in different sections are counted, an additional 1,000 must be added to the total amount. Of the basic traditions, 5,072 are considered sahih (sound); 144 are regarded as hasan (good), second category; 178 are held to be muwaththaq (trustworthy), third category; 302 are adjudged to be qaui (strong), fourth category; and 9,484 are considered da'if (weak), fifth category. Shaikh Saduq, didn't believe complete authenticity of Al-Kafi. Khoei points this out in his Mu'jam Rijaal al-Hadith, or "Collection of Men of Narrations", in which he states

Ãäø ÇáÔíÎ ÇáÕÏæÞ : ÞÏøÓ ÓÑøå : áã íßä íÚÊÞÏ ÕÍøÉ ÌãíÚ ãÇÝí ÇáßÇÝí

"Shaykh as-Sadūq did not regard all of the traditions in al-Kafi to be Sahih (truthful).

Al-Khoei also states in his Mu'jam (on the same referenced page):

"áÇäø ÝíåÇ ãÑÓáÇÊ æÝíåÇ ÑæÇíÇÊ Ýí ÇÓäÇÏåÇ ãÌÇåíá¡ æãä ÅÔÊåÑ ÈÇáæÖÚ æÇáßÐÈ¡"

There is within it (al-Kafi) traditions, whose chains of narration contain (known) ignorants, liars and fabricators."

[ http://www.alkhoei.net/data/almaktaba/m_r/01/p3.html]

I can add more comments from your own Ulema regarding the issue , but let me feel suffice for now because those are open secrets for Shia though they follow Hadith . Hence to compare the collection of the Quran with that of the Hdith/Tafsir is nothing but to compare an fresh red apple with a rotten worm-eaten apple .

the problem is that you just interpret and dont pay attention to the way these ahadith are used. like sunnis, we might narrated any kind of Ahadith but we never ever use them for issuing Hukm or fatwa. about the tafasir for quran we know there are weak and strong ahadith and as Prophet saww has ordered us we attach to those that are in line with Quran+in line with Urf and then write those books. the matter of Quran and its tafsir and its ta'wi is not a simple matter to be accomplished by simple people. (remember Ali Imran verse)

Again my point still prevails : no books from Ahle Bayat .

again I say we dont have ay colleted book as the people from sadrol Islam didnt have any collected Quran
For the rest of the post I describe my opinion by using the Quranic verses . Hence I don’t think I am wrong .

no you have interfered your own interpretation and understanigs as well sinece we have many verses that dont support what you have said.

ÅöäøóãóÇ ÌóÒóÇÁ ÇáøóÐöíäó íõÍóÇÑöÈõæäó Çááøåó æóÑóÓõæáóåõ æóíóÓúÚóæúäó Ýöí ÇáÃóÑúÖö ÝóÓóÇÏðÇ Ãóä íõÞóÊøóáõæÇú Ãóæú íõÕóáøóÈõæÇú Ãóæú ÊõÞóØøóÚó ÃóíúÏöíåöãú æóÃóÑúÌõáõåõã ãøöäú ÎöáÇÝò Ãóæú íõäÝóæúÇú ãöäó ÇáÃóÑúÖö Ðóáößó áóåõãú ÎöÒúíñ Ýöí ÇáÏøõäúíóÇ æóáóåõãú Ýöí ÇáÂÎöÑóÉö ÚóÐóÇÈñ ÚóÙöíãñ {33}

[Pickthal 5:33] The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;

áöíóÞúØóÚó ØóÑóÝðÇ ãøöäó ÇáøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇú Ãóæú íóßúÈöÊóåõãú ÝóíóäÞóáöÈõæÇú ÎóÂÆöÈöíäó {127}

[Pickthal 3:127] That He may cut off a part of those who disbelieve, or overwhelm them so that they retire, frustrated.

áÃõÞóØøöÚóäøó ÃóíúÏöíóßõãú æóÃóÑúÌõáóßõã ãøöäú ÎöáÇóÝò Ëõãøó áÃõÕóáøöÈóäøóßõãú ÃóÌúãóÚöíäó {124}

[Pickthal 7:124] Surely I shall have your hands and feet cut off upon alternate sides. Then I shall crucify you every one.

áÇó íóÒóÇáõ ÈõäúíóÇäõåõãõ ÇáøóÐöí ÈóäóæúÇú ÑöíÈóÉð Ýöí ÞõáõæÈöåöãú ÅöáÇøó Ãóä ÊóÞóØøóÚó ÞõáõæÈõåõãú æóÇááøåõ Úóáöíãñ Íóßöíãñ {110}

[Pickthal 9:110] The building which they built will never cease to be a misgiving in their hearts unless their hearts be torn to pieces. Allah is Knower, Wise.

æóÞóÖóíúäóÇ Åöáóíúåö Ðóáößó ÇáÃóãúÑó Ãóäøó ÏóÇÈöÑó åóÄõáÇÁ ãóÞúØõæÚñ ãøõÕúÈöÍöíäó {66}

[Pickthal 15:66] And We made plain the case to him, that the root of them (who did wrong) was to

be cut at early morn.

ÞóÇáó ÂãóäÊõãú áóåõ ÞóÈúáó Ãóäú ÂÐóäó áóßõãú Åöäøóåõ áóßóÈöíÑõßõãõ ÇáøóÐöí Úóáøóãóßõãõ ÇáÓøöÍúÑó ÝóáóÃõÞóØøöÚóäøó ÃóíúÏöíóßõãú æóÃóÑúÌõáóßõã ãøöäú ÎöáóÇÝò æóáóÃõÕóáøöÈóäøóßõãú Ýöí ÌõÐõæÚö ÇáäøóÎúáö æóáóÊóÚúáóãõäøó ÃóíøõäóÇ ÃóÔóÏøõ ÚóÐóÇÈðÇ æóÃóÈúÞóì {71}

[Pickthal 20:71] (Pharaoh) said: Ye put faith in him before I give you leave. Lo! he is your chief who taught you magic. Now surely I shall cut off your hands and your feet alternately, and I shall crucify you on the trunks of palm trees, and ye shall know for certain which of us hath sterner and more

lasting punishment.

åóÐóÇäö ÎóÕúãóÇäö ÇÎúÊóÕóãõæÇ Ýöí ÑóÈøöåöãú ÝóÇáøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇ ÞõØøöÚóÊú áóåõãú ËöíóÇÈñ ãøöä äøóÇÑò íõÕóÈøõ ãöä ÝóæúÞö ÑõÄõæÓöåöãõ ÇáúÍóãöíãõ {19}

[

Pickthal 22:19] These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads,

it goes on you know but I think it is enough to show you that you are not rigt with that funny interpretation and conclusion over 2 Quranic verses.

anyway if you can iterpret as you want why cant Ahlulbayt A?

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(bismillah)

(salam)

It is usually seen that Shia and Sunni are spending most of their times to praise , to venerate and to remember human . Shia do it for Ahle Bayat and Sunni do it for Sahaba . Instead remembering Allah , the Almighty they keep themselves busy in those indirect human worship . Of course in that case they have a similarity with Christians who always commemorating Jesus (p) thinking GOD is happy with it . But Allah (swt) sends us in this world to glorify , to worship and to commemorate HIM only . Each second of our lives should be dedicated in HIS remembrance only . Human veneration in too much extent is nothing but a form of Shirk. The time and the effort that we are giving behind those human praise should be preserved for our LORD’s praise . Allah (swt) says :

Sorry, but i disagree with this. Most of our times is been used to practise Islam and for the remembering Allah by reading Quran and Ahlulbait (a) sayings about Islam and struggle by ourself to do good deeds and forbid bad deeds etc. Unfortunately but I think you have very wrong image about us. We are not a people who use our time only for this Internet to discuss and learn about Quranic verses, Hadiths or other topics.

Edited by Zufa
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the problem is that you just interpret and dont pay attention to the way these ahadith are used. like sunnis, we might narrated any kind of Ahadith but we never ever use them for issuing Hukm or fatwa. about the tafasir for quran we know there are weak and strong ahadith and as Prophet saww has ordered us we attach to those that are in line with Quran+in line with Urf and then write those books. the matter of Quran and its tafsir and its ta'wi is not a simple matter to be accomplished by simple people. (remember Ali Imran verse)

Thanks for your honesty in admitting that your past-wise Ayatollahs compiled any kinds of Hadith (!!) they wanted . That’s why in Usule kafi there are more than 60% of Hadiths which are believed to be lies and week .

Now feel wonder for your self-contradictory statement for following those Hadiths which are corroborating with the Quran . You always think that Quran is useless without the aid of Hadith/Tafsir now you are changing your verdict and propose us that Hadith/Tafsir is dependant on the Quran .

Anyway , I mentioned already that Allah , the Almighty never promised to keep hadith books guarded against any fabrication and never instructed us to follow those human made books . The fallible Shia and Sunni scholars set up their own rules to call a Hadith Sahih or Daeef , not Allah , the Omniscient . Hence the Hadith that your thinking Sahih , will never bear 100% assurance of its being perfect . The only 100% Sahih collections in this Universe is Quran and nothing else . Hence I am in a safe position for following a 100% Sahih book and you are in an unsafe position for following some unguaranteed,unprotected ,unassured books.

no you have interfered your own interpretation and understanigs as well sinece we have many verses that dont support what you have said.

I think you have heard about the awesome mathematical composition of the Quran . Each and every verse in the Quran constructed with the super-human numerical way . Using this phenomenon , we find a mathematical relation between the verse 5:38 and verse 12:31 that I have used to come to decision .

5+38=43

12+31=43

which implies numerically that the degree of punishment of thieves as found in 5:38 is equivalent to that described in the verse 12:31 .

Like you? and not Ahlolbayt? I wonder why this verse' has been sent the holy heart of Prophet saww while some guided one like you thinks that anybody can understand Quran's allegorical verses.

it goes on you know but I think it is enough to show you that you are not rigt with that funny interpretation and conclusion over 2 Quranic verses.

anyway if you can iterpret as you want why cant Ahlulbayt A?

That is the very reason I have been asking you where are those interpretations and explanations of Ahle Bayat that you think you need to follow ?

You just can’t follow Qulaini’s or Al-Razi’s books thinking they are real sayings your Imams .

Did Ahle Bayat left any tafsir for you at all ?

Sorry to ask you the same question again but you open the door again to ask you the same question .

Thanks .

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I didn't find anything useful in this regard in that site . Can you glean some of them out here my brother ?

(bismillah)

(salam)

Of course. To read them, first you choose Volume and then the verses and on down you will see "TRADITIONS" section after the commentary ( on commenatry section Tabataba'i use only Quranic verses to explain these verses) section. Example traditions about Surah Fateha, Verses 6-7.

One of the many traditions of Surah Fateha:

Imam ar-Rida (a.s.) narrates through his forefathers from Amiral al-mu'minin (a.s.) that he said: "I heard the Apostle of Allah saying: 'Allah, Mighty and Great is He, has said: "I have divide the Opening of the Book between Myself and My servant; so, half is for Me and the (other) half is for My servant. And My servant shall get what he asks for." When the servant says: In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful, Allah, Great is His Glory, says: "My servant has started with My name, an it is incumbent upon Me that I should complete his works him and bless him in his affairs". And when he says: All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the worlds, Allah, Great is His Glory says: "My servant has Praised Me, and he knows that the bounties that are with him are from Me, and that the misfortunate that have been averted from him were so averted by My grace; (O My angels!) I appoint You as My witnesses that I shall add for him the favors of the next world to those of this world, and will avert from him the calamities of the next world as I have averted from him the calamities of this world." And when he says, The Beneficent, the Merciful, Allah, Great is His Glory, says: "My servant bore witness for Me that I am the Beneficent, the MercifuI; I make you My witness that I will most surely augment his share in My mercy, and I will most certainly increase his portion My bounties." And when he says, The Master of the Day of Judgment, Allah, the High, says: "I make you My witness that, as he has acknowledged that I am the Master of the Day of Judgment I will most certainly make his reckoning easier (for him) on the Day of Reckoning, and I will most certainly accept his good deed and look over his sins." And when he says: Thee do we worship, Allah, Mighty and Great is He, says: "My servant is telling truth, He worships Me only. Be My witness that I will most surely give him for his worship a reward that will be the (object of) envy to all who opposed him when he worshipped Me." And when he says, and Thee do we beseech for help, Allah, the High, says: "From Me has My servant sought help, and in Me has he taken refuge. Be My witness that I will most certainly help him in his affairs, and will aid him in his difficulties, and will take his hand in his calamities." And when he says, Guide us to the right path…, Allah, Mighty and Great is He, says: "This (part) is for My servant, and My servant shall have what he asks for; and I have answered (the prayer of) My servant, and have given him what he hopes for and have protected him from what he is afraid of." ‘ " ('Uyunu 'I-akhbar).

Another tradition about Verses 6-7:

Again Ma'ani 'I-akhbar quotes 'Ali (a.s.) as saying: "The straight path, in this world, is that which stops short of excesses and rises above shortcomings, and remains straight; and, in the next world, it is the path of the believers (leading them) to the Garden. "

The same book quotes the same Imam, explaining the verse: The path of those. . ., as follows: "Say: Guide us to the path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors by strengthening them for Thy religion and Thy obedience - not (of those whom Thou favored) with wealth and health because such things are sometimes given even to the disbeliever or to the sinful. " (Then he said:) "And those (bestowed with divine favor) are those about whom Allah says: And whoever obeys Allah and the Apostle, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the righteous ones, and excellent are these as companion (4:69).

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Of course. To read them, first you choose Volume and then the verses and on down you will see "TRADITIONS" section after the commentary ( on commenatry section Tabataba'i use only Quranic verses to explain these verses) section. Example traditions about Surah Fateha, Verses 6-7.

One of the many traditions of Surah Fateha:

Imam ar-Rida (a.s.) narrates through his forefathers from Amiral al-mu'minin (a.s.) that he said: "I heard the Apostle of Allah saying: 'Allah, Mighty and Great is He, has said: "I have divide the Opening of the Book between Myself and My servant; so, half is for Me and the (other) half is for My servant. And My servant shall get what he asks for." When the servant says: In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful, Allah, Great is His Glory, says: "My servant has started with My name, an it is incumbent upon Me that I should complete his works him and bless him in his affairs". And when he says: All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the worlds, Allah, Great is His Glory says: "My servant has Praised Me, and he knows that the bounties that are with him are from Me, and that the misfortunate that have been averted from him were so averted by My grace; (O My angels!) I appoint You as My witnesses that I shall add for him the favors of the next world to those of this world, and will avert from him the calamities of the next world as I have averted from him the calamities of this world." And when he says, The Beneficent, the Merciful, Allah, Great is His Glory, says: "My servant bore witness for Me that I am the Beneficent, the MercifuI; I make you My witness that I will most surely augment his share in My mercy, and I will most certainly increase his portion My bounties." And when he says, The Master of the Day of Judgment, Allah, the High, says: "I make you My witness that, as he has acknowledged that I am the Master of the Day of Judgment I will most certainly make his reckoning easier (for him) on the Day of Reckoning, and I will most certainly accept his good deed and look over his sins." And when he says: Thee do we worship, Allah, Mighty and Great is He, says: "My servant is telling truth, He worships Me only. Be My witness that I will most surely give him for his worship a reward that will be the (object of) envy to all who opposed him when he worshipped Me." And when he says, and Thee do we beseech for help, Allah, the High, says: "From Me has My servant sought help, and in Me has he taken refuge. Be My witness that I will most certainly help him in his affairs, and will aid him in his difficulties, and will take his hand in his calamities." And when he says, Guide us to the right path…, Allah, Mighty and Great is He, says: "This (part) is for My servant, and My servant shall have what he asks for; and I have answered (the prayer of) My servant, and have given him what he hopes for and have protected him from what he is afraid of." ‘ " ('Uyunu 'I-akhbar).

Another tradition about Verses 6-7:

Again Ma'ani 'I-akhbar quotes 'Ali (a.s.) as saying: "The straight path, in this world, is that which stops short of excesses and rises above shortcomings, and remains straight; and, in the next world, it is the path of the believers (leading them) to the Garden. "

The same book quotes the same Imam, explaining the verse: The path of those. . ., as follows: "Say: Guide us to the path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors by strengthening them for Thy religion and Thy obedience - not (of those whom Thou favored) with wealth and health because such things are sometimes given even to the disbeliever or to the sinful. " (Then he said:) "And those (bestowed with divine favor) are those about whom Allah says: And whoever obeys Allah and the Apostle, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the righteous ones, and excellent are these as companion (4:69).

Hilarious indeed . How Tabatabaei (1892-1981) narrated from the Members of Ahle Bayat (though I like to restrict them to Ali,Hasan and Hussain only) though they passed away 1000 years before the compilation of Al-Mizan ? Are they not just guesses and conjectures ?

If your weird standard let you allow to accept Al-Mizan’s verdict as the tradition of your Imams then Sunni Tafsir of Ibne Kathir (1301-1373) should be thousand times reliable than Al-Mizan to have the tradition of Prophet . Same should be applicable to Bukhari Vs. Al-Kafi . Brother , your irrational thinking of tradition will make the Sunni win the race .

Think logically and don’t follow your ancestors blindly . How beautiful is the Wisdom of our Lord :

[017:036] And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.

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Hilarious indeed . How Tabatabaei (1892-1981) narrated from the Members of Ahle Bayat (though I like to restrict them to Ali,Hasan and Hussain only) though they passed away 1000 years before the compilation of Al-Mizan ? Are they not just guesses and conjectures ?

(bismillah)

(salam)

Using hadiths from Shias and Sunnis books of the saying of Ahlulbait (a).

Are they not just guesses and conjectures ?

No.

If your weird standard let you allow to accept Al-Mizan’s verdict as the tradition of your Imams then Sunni Tafsir of Ibne Kathir (1301-1373) should be thousand times reliable than Al-Mizan to have the tradition of Prophet . Same should be applicable to Bukhari Vs. Al-Kafi .

I do not know your meaning by "my" weird standard. And about the releability of work, the better and reliable it is if its include many categories (Commentaries, Arguments ,Traditions, Philosophical etc) with evidence.

And about Traditions: Tradition of our Imams = Saying of Prophet Muhammad (SAWS).

Brother , your irrational thinking of tradition will make the Sunni win the race .

?

Think logically and don’t follow your ancestors blindly.

Nope i do not follow ancestors blindly, i follow the principles which does not contradict with Holy Quran.

[017:036] And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.

When i follow some principle i first study it from many viewpoints with evidence of course.

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[017:036] And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.

Obviously to this insane person (roka), "Sahih" Bukhari escapes the standard defined by him in light of the above verse while, SOMEHOW, Al-Kafi doesn't. :D

Imagine that.

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Obviously to this insane person (roka), "Sahih" Bukhari escapes the standard defined by him in light of the above verse while, SOMEHOW, Al-Kafi doesn't. :D

Imagine that.

May Allah bless you my brother . You can insult me the way you want , no problem . It can be expected from Shia or from Sunni , not from a Muslim . When Prophet Muhammad (p) upheld the teaching of the Quran and instructed his people to abandon all the conjectures they obtained from their past generations , he was insulted and was called insane .

Bukhari and uslule Kafi - both are rejected .

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(bismillah)

(salam)

So why cant muslims unite why does this wall of hatred exist between the muslim sects knowing that it harms our perception to the non muslims, like a civil war in islam! the non muslims see this and are confused? a sunni/wahabi will say Shias are Kaffirs and dont talk to them there wrong and ALSO same from our shia why is it like this? The enemies benefit from this not us can someone suggest how we can come closer to one another rather then inflict hatred meaning respecting each other beliefs the SAME way as we respect other Faiths why close our ears? healthy debate is so uncommon now! so what sort of things should we do in order to prevent this ply of Shaitan

The division is created by inviduals desires who introduced alterations in their religious pleas. The same people who do not follow the footsteps of Prophet Muhammad (saws). Same people who do not avoid the evil or believe in unknow. They act on the doubts and tread in (the way of) their passions. For them good is whatever they consider good and evil is whatever they consider evil. Their confidence in regard to dubious matters is on their own opinions as if every one of them is the Leader (Imam) of himself. Whatever he has decided himself he considers it to have been taken through reliable sources and strong factors. (Nahjul Balagha Sermon 87). So we actually can be the victims of these division creators and this is why by our knowledge we should be aware of the teaching which are ageinst of Holy Quran and the Sunnah and warning or discuss others about it.

And the Disunity also come from the Divisions. And When we are disunited, its means that our heart and words have differ in such level that we may start hate eachother and even create war between us: Look, how they were when their groups were united, their views were unanimous, their hearts were moderate, their hands used to help one another, their swords were intended for assisting one another, their eyes were sharp and their aims were the same. Did they not become masters of the corners of the earth and rulers over the neck of all the worlds? Thereafter, also see what happened to them towards the end when division overtook them, Unity became fractured, and differences arose between their words and their hearts. They divided into various groups and were scattered fighting among themselves.( from al-Khutbah al-Qasi`ah)

This is why we should unity and be a one Group that support, love, respect eachother and follow and are busy towards the laws that Allah (SWT) have bestow to us and be in the same group of Imam Ali (as) when he said:

Certainly, I belong to the group of people who care not for the reproach of anybody in matters concerning Allah. Their countenance is the countenance of the truthful and their speech is the speech of the virtuous. They are wakeful during the nights (in devotion to Allah), and over beacons (of guidance) in the day. They hold fast to the rope of the Qur'an. revive the traditions of Allah and of His Prophet. They do not boast nor indulge in self conceit, nor misappropriate, nor create mischief. Their hearts are in Paradise while their bodies are busy in (good) acts. (Nahjul Balagha Sermon 191)

Even if we follow different School of Though, we still can be all together with this Group and be united.

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To answer the OP, muslims will never re-unite unless nasibi wahhabis are eradicated and Imam Mahdi returns and then forcibly unites them by forcibly converting those sunnis to shia islam because its about time they converted to shia faith instead of praising yazeed and muawiyah 24/7 .

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To answer the OP, muslims will never re-unite unless nasibi wahhabis are eradicated and Imam Mahdi returns and then forcibly unites them by forcibly converting those sunnis to shia islam because its about time they converted to shia faith instead of praising yazeed and muawiyah 24/7 .

We are sunnis that means we will never believe in the existence of the shiite Mahdi otherwise we would be shia, but I agree with you we can unite by force, if we force shia to be sunnis, or force sunnis to become shia ...

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Then be a yazidi Malak Taus shaytaan worshipping nasibi because thats what your destiny is.

Salam alaikum

I don't get why would any sane muslim fight about Mehdi

We could wait in unity and when he comes we will see who was right :rolleyes:

I am Bosnian living in Croatia, far away from nationalistic Arabo-Persian view on Shia-Suni dialogue.

I love Iran and i love my shia brothers and sisters who do not curse sahabas

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Salam alaikum

I don't get why would any sane muslim fight about Mehdi

We could wait in unity and when he comes we will see who was right :rolleyes:

I am Bosnian living in Croatia, far away from nationalistic Arabo-Persian view on Shia-Suni dialogue.

I love Iran and i love my shia brothers and sisters who do not curse sahabas

Well to be honest i love Croatians. :Hijabi:

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I am talking about islamic pluralism, both mainstream shias and sunnis are by definition muslims, all sane scholars agree with that. Last time i checked in books there wrote:"ALL MUSLIMS ARE BROTHERS". Why wouldn't we have more respect for other brother??? In my homeland which is 100% sunni its normal to respect 12 imams because our sufi brothers (sunni hanefi) also respect them, it is also normal to find selefis who love Hizbullah and president Ahmadinejad. Last few years after youtube become popular here i see many selefis here becoming anti-shia, but they are minority elhamdulillah. We don't need to have identical view on all aspects of islam to be brothers, we just need to get rid of people who are blind because of their nifak and hate for other muslims.

Salam

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(bismillah)

Salamualaikum Wr Wb Brother Croatia!

First, I welcome you to this forum. =] Please do not follow the footsteps of many of the mu'min and mu'minaat on this board who lack akhlaaq towards each other - this forum (shia/sunni dialogue) has become a big playground of hate...i personally think it should be locked away.

Anyways! Yes, Unity, good, need it =D I agree!

One thing you said in particular:

I love Iran and i love my shia brothers and sisters who do not curse sahabas

This is where that understand needs to happen before Unity occurs. To us, those who we give la'nat to are not righteous companions and are getting the la'nat of Allah [swt] and use following Allah [swt]'s sunnah means we get barakah for practicing tabarra (disassociation from Allah [swt]'s enemies). BUT this la'nat shouldn't be expressed in front of our Brothers of Ahlul Sunnah - its more offensive than us insulting their mother sometimes. Sure you might know some people give it but they don't do it in front of you - does that bother you?

So my Shi'a brothers shouldn't be cursing people whom the Sunnis love around them or in some crazy way - it divides us more than you think it doesn't.

The Sunni brothers also need to consider our feelings towards things a lot. Likewise how we shouldn't be giving la'nat on people in their presence, Sunni shouldn't praise extremely people whom we see as oppressors of the Ahlulbayt - its like saying you love the person who killed our mother.

But! My Shi'a brothers shouldn't be turned off by the fact that they do love these people cause they don't believe what we do! Their beliefs are mostly nothing but praise of these men - why shouldn't they love them?

Like wise Sunnis shouldn't hate us simply cause we don't like and hate certain people because our books have accounts of many evils they committed! Why shouldn't be give them la'nat?

UNDERSTANDING! It is that necessity before we can unite and be that 'Ummat'ul Wahida.

Waslaam!

PS. Bro Croatia, i meant no offense in my post to you =] I like your strong support for unity. It's what we need.

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Shia and Sunni can live in Unity together if they stopped being Shia and Sunni.

Or they could live a life in devotional silence, and then there would be nothing to fight about.

And what exactly do you "stopped bieng Shia and Sunni" Stop with the Labels? Yes we should. Theyre just words of distinction. But still...if a Maliki who just calls himself Muslim and is in a Salafi Masjid who just calls himself Muslim...they will be giving our Maliki brother a hard time as soon as they see him praying.

And if you mean abandon beliefs - that won't happen right now. Neither side is going to give up what it believes to be Haqq.

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