Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Are the following hadith about Abu Lulu authentic?

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Veteran Member

(salam)

Since I am looking into the topic of Abu Lulu, and since I've been given the following hadiths, th enext logical step would be to check the authenticity of these hadiths.

Could some of the hadith experts please check and verify the authenticity of the following hadiths? If not all, then some please

According to many scholars, Abu Lulu - known as Baba Shuja al-Din - was among the greatest muslims and mujahids (those who strive in the path of God), in addition to being amongst the staunchest believers in Imam Ali as.gif. (Riyadh al-Ulama, v. 5, p. 507 Chapter of "lam" and Safinat al-Behar v. 7, p. 561 under topic "Lulu").

In Tariq al-Irshad (p. 456) it's written that Abu Lulu asked Umar about the punishment about the one who causes suffering for his mawla (master), usurpes the land of his master and abuses the wife of his master (Fatima). Umar replied that it's mandatory to slay such a person. Then Abu Lulu faced Umar, asked him why he had caused the immense suffering to Imam Ali as.gif by killing his wife, the mother of the Imams as.gif, and usurping their land, and stabbed him.

Daylami writes in Irshad al-Quloob (v. 2, p. 285) that Imam Ali as.gif told Umar, "Abu Lulu will put an end to you, as God has given him this tawfiq. By God, Abu Lulu will enter paradise against your will." Also repeated in Mashariq al-Anwar p. 79.

It's further famous among Shi'is that after Abu Lulu had slayed Umar, he narrated this to Imam Ali as.gif upon which he was transferred miraculously to Kashan, where he married the daughter of the Chief Judge of Kashan, and he had pious children (Shakhe Tooba p. 107, by Mohaddes Noori, who also authored Mustadrak al-Wasael).

Also Sheikh Sepehr writes in Nasekh al-Tawarikh Tarikh al-Khulafa v. 3, p. 49 that When Abu Lulu killed Umar, he came to Kashan, and he was among the Shi'i until he died. The people of Kashan buried him at Fin.

Habib al-Siraj p. 489 also states that he was a muslim and died as one in Kashan.

Thank you very much in advance

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

According to many scholars, Abu Lulu - known as Baba Shuja al-Din - was among the greatest muslims and mujahids (those who strive in the path of God), in addition to being amongst the staunchest believers in Imam Ali as.gif. (Riyadh al-Ulama, v. 5, p. 507 Chapter of "lam" and Safinat al-Behar v. 7, p. 561 under topic "Lulu").

^This is the view of the scholars.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
According to many scholars, Abu Lulu - known as Baba Shuja al-Din - was among the greatest muslims and mujahids (those who strive in the path of God), in addition to being amongst the staunchest believers in Imam Ali as.gif. (Riyadh al-Ulama, v. 5, p. 507 Chapter of "lam" and Safinat al-Behar v. 7, p. 561 under topic "Lulu").

^This is the view of the scholars.

I have noticed how at times certain scholars use certain hadiths that other scholar deem not strong and not authentic.

So, for a bold claim such as a murderer being among the greatest muslims, I would need to examine, how many scholars and based on how many authentic hadiths, conclude such claim.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member

He was a majoosi and has nothing to do with Imami madhab.

From Shaykh al-Radhy's website:

ÈÚÖ ÇáÑæÇíÇÊ ÇáÊí ÊÞæá ÈÃä ÃÈí áÄáÄÉ ãÓáã æÃäå ÃÝÖá ÇáÔíÚÉ Úáì ÇáÅØáÇÞ Ýåá åí ÕÍíÍÉ ¿

ÇáËÇÈÊ ÊÇÑíÎíÇð Ãä ÃÈÇ áÄáÄÉ ãÌæÓíÇð æáíÓ áå ãä ÇáÅÓáÇã ÔíÆÇð æÇáÊÔíÚ ÈÑíÁ ãäå

http://www.alradhy.com/as/hst.htm

w/s

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 12 years later...
  • Advanced Member
On 2/11/2009 at 2:23 PM, SoRoUsH said:

According to many scholars, Abu Lulu - known as Baba Shuja al-Din - was among the greatest muslims and mujahids (those who strive in the path of God), in addition to being amongst the staunchest believers in Imam Ali as.gif. (Riyadh al-Ulama, v. 5, p. 507 Chapter of "lam" and Safinat al-Behar v. 7, p. 561 under topic "Lulu").

In Tariq al-Irshad (p. 456) it's written that Abu Lulu asked Umar about the punishment about the one who causes suffering for his mawla (master), usurpes the land of his master and abuses the wife of his master (Fatima). Umar replied that it's mandatory to slay such a person. Then Abu Lulu faced Umar, asked him why he had caused the immense suffering to Imam Ali as.gif by killing his wife, the mother of the Imams as.gif, and usurping their land, and stabbed him.

Daylami writes in Irshad al-Quloob (v. 2, p. 285) that Imam Ali as.gif told Umar, "Abu Lulu will put an end to you, as God has given him this tawfiq. By God, Abu Lulu will enter paradise against your will." Also repeated in Mashariq al-Anwar p. 79.

It's further famous among Shi'is that after Abu Lulu had slayed Umar, he narrated this to Imam Ali as.gif upon which he was transferred miraculously to Kashan, where he married the daughter of the Chief Judge of Kashan, and he had pious children (Shakhe Tooba p. 107, by Mohaddes Noori, who also authored Mustadrak al-Wasael).

Also Sheikh Sepehr writes in Nasekh al-Tawarikh Tarikh al-Khulafa v. 3, p. 49 that When Abu Lulu killed Umar, he came to Kashan, and he was among the Shi'i until he died. The people of Kashan buried him at Fin.

Habib al-Siraj p. 489 also states that he was a muslim and died as one in Kashan.

 

Non of these sources are Primary sources of Hadeeth though

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
8 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Non of these sources are Primary sources of Hadeeth though

Salam brother, so they are not real or what?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salam ,

According to my knowledge these hadith are correct and authentic but they arent from the Primary hadith collections , so that's why people doubt them .

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 2/11/2009 at 2:53 PM, SoRoUsH said:

(salam)

Since I am looking into the topic of Abu Lulu, and since I've been given the following hadiths, th enext logical step would be to check the authenticity of these hadiths.

Could some of the hadith experts please check and verify the authenticity of the following hadiths? If not all, then some please

Thank you very much in advance

I personally don't believe in these hadith. The reason being the manner in which Umar was killed. 

Imams (عليه السلام) never supported or embraced or encouraged such ways. So, personally I don't think these hadith align with Shia aqeeda regarding seerah of Imamate.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
2 hours ago, Zainuu said:

I personally don't believe in these hadith. The reason being the manner in which Umar was killed. 

Imams (عليه السلام) never supported or embraced or encouraged such ways. So, personally I don't think these hadith align with Shia aqeeda regarding seerah of Imamate.

Actually They did specially for those who claim ghulat about the Imams (عليه السلام).

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
2 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Actually They did specially for those who claim ghulat about the Imams (عليه السلام).

The ones who claimed ghulat were killed on open orders by Imam Ali (عليه السلام) himself. 

There was no secret conspiracy going on. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
1 hour ago, Zainuu said:

The ones who claimed ghulat were killed on open orders by Imam Ali (عليه السلام) himself. 

There was no secret conspiracy going on. 

Yes that what I mean brother.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
7 hours ago, AbalFadhl said:

Salam ,

According to my knowledge these hadith are correct and authentic but they arent from the Primary hadith collections , so that's why people doubt them .

Ok but what makes them authentic brother? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 2/11/2009 at 2:23 PM, SoRoUsH said:

Daylami writes in Irshad al-Quloob (v. 2, p. 285) that Imam Ali as.gif told Umar, "Abu Lulu will put an end to you, as God has given him this tawfiq. By God, Abu Lulu will enter paradise against your will."

From Irshad Al Quloob:

image.thumb.png.10a8b39d52c06e55d1112c95db2b80f1.png

Books Author is الشيخ الحسن بن أبي الحسن محمد الديلمي

And he mentions no chain or sources upto Harun Bin Saed who is a companion of Imam Ali (عليه السلام).

Therefore this narration has no significance. And i think all other narrations are just like that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...