Is it really right for her to die unmarried?

[SayYaAli]

Toocool66:

so u see we have to accept then

no one can say no

but the problem is that we find narrations (though these guys are trying to misinterpret them ) see my last post )

which prove the contrary

I understand what you are saying. But then why do scholars permit it? Are they unaware of these ahadith? I think that it is about being realistic in a world where many Syed families have tragically forgotten their roots and indulge in open sin. It is unfortunate but true. There may be suitable non-syeds, even Muslim reverts. I think all these ahadith prove that it is best for syeds and syedas to marry each other. But if there's no choice then why not marry a non-syed?

I trust Ayatullah Sistani's stance on it. He must know the ins and outs and the implications of ALL the ahadith (not just a selected few) and is capable of making a decision on the basis of them.

Is there a hadith which says a syeda can not marry a non-syed if she has no choice and if she wants to? Because there are so many ahadith which say MARRY, MARRY, MARRY and none which say don't marry!

Also even if it were the case then and assuming it is "haram" for a syeda to marry non-syed then aren't there many haram things that become acceptable due to obligation? Like drinking wine if you're dying of thirst and eating pork if you're dying of hunger? Not all countries are like the west, I think I can say without being sexist that a gal sometimes needs a hubby to be supported after her parents pass away. Otherwise the number of beggars and "miskeen" will shoot up to the stars and there will be all sorts of crimes against unprotected females. Also maybe the daughters of Imam CHOSE not to marry non-syed as matter of preference?

I'm sure kuff is not just lineage. It also means piety, chastity.

Marrying a good believer is the bare minimum. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

I believe that's true.

I've read that Ayatullah Khomeini allowed his daughter to marry non-syed. I can't find the reference so I didn't quote it. Does anyone know of it?

[asma0401]

According to traditions of Aima Masomeen (as) , see AlKafi, chapter 130, tradition no. 4, the descendants of 'Abd al-Muttalib (sws) as were considered Syeds, both males and females and eligible for Khums. It's along tradition, so only few paragraphs are given below:

"Al-Khums (one fifth) is due on five categories of properties.

(1) Cattle;

(2) Properties acquired from diving into deep waters;

(3) The treasures;

(4) The mines; and

(5) Salts. On each of such categories al-Khums is due.

Coming back to the main topic, Children of Adu al-Muttalib were Syed and then the Children of Imam Hassan sws and Hussain sws were given this status (as per Surah-e-Rahman)...

I don't think khums is paid on cattle. this might be zakat? it is paid on savings from earnings though. do you know how many children Abd al-Muttalib had and how they became to be called Syed? Also, if his children were Syed, then why are all of Imam Ali's children not Syed?

[toocoool66]

assalamoallaikom

thank you very much sister for you kind words

and for you expressing your feelings

first let me share a hadeeth for you

imam jafar told abu hamza thamali that

"stay awar from state and rulership , and riding behind other

he replied"may i be your fidya , as far as state is concerned that i understand , but as far as riding behind is concerned more than 2/3 of my life is spent in that"

imam said "no you have misunderstood

it means that you follow someone without HUJJAT AND EVIDENCE

AND THEN TESTIFY WHATEVER HE SAYS"

source: MA'ANI UL AKHBAR, sheikh sadooq, urdu , page 215

so the order to us is that we should follow people with hujjat and evidence,

and hujjat and evidence is the saying of imam in our days....

now when u say

But then why do scholars permit it? Are they unaware of these ahadith? I think that it is about being realistic in a world where many Syed families have tragically forgotten their roots and indulge in open sin. It is unfortunate but true. There may be suitable non-syeds, even Muslim reverts. I think all these ahadith prove that it is best for syeds and syedas to marry each other. But if there's no choice then why not marry a non-syed?

well i dont know that why scholars allow it ..... i do know scholars who prohibit it and they quote the ahadeeth which i told u

so you should ask those who allow it as to why those people are allowing it?is there any hadeeth with them which allows a syed girl to marry a nonsyed....

well you have charged us that we have forgotten our roots

sister , please read my posts again and you will inshallah see that i m FROM THE START , either quoting quranic verses or ahadeeth

and the people who are posting against me are either , concealing ahadeeth or giving their personal opinions....

well indulging in sin is a bit harsher , i would say

i mean which sort of sin are u talking about

if following ahadeeth is .............

sorry but i have to obey the masoomen , this is the order

mola ali said that do not see who is saying ,just see what is he saying

i cannot forget that

Is there a hadith which says a syeda can not marry a non-syed if she has no choice and if she wants to?Because there are so many ahadith which say MARRY, MARRY, MARRY and none which say don't marry!

first

remember islam is not about choices

if you do not find a person, it does not allow you to marry your brother , or a hindu for example

the problem nowadays is not this that there are no syeds boys

the problem is that when girls have time , they have so much high demands like you see we tell our daughters

that there will be a prince for you etc

and when she gets to that age , first she wishes to have that ideal sort of man

this is our mistake sister

islam allows a man to marry 4 times

but very few of syed girl will accept this that is to be the 2nd wife or 3 rd , u know

there are marriage beaures sort of

we dont consult that because we think that what would our relatives say......

so it is that useless shame which is the problem

we feel shame where we should not

and we dont feel shame where we should

now u said that there are many many ahadeeth which say mary marry marry

can u quote me 3 ?

i have quoted a lot which states that it is not allowed

i even quoted from answering ansar that bibi zainab said that one needs to be kafir to do so.....read my last post ....

may Allah bless u all , and give us the strength to serve masoomen amin

(sister i m keeping my comments reserved about a few point which you have quoted , espacially with regards to some scholars, just remember , that i m not usooli,,,, every one is free though , so if you wish to continue following , it is your wish ......sorry if this has hurt you may Allah always protect u sister amin)

[nastynas]

I don't think khums is paid on cattle. this might be zakat? it is paid on savings from earnings though. do you know how many children Abd al-Muttalib had and how they became to be called Syed? Also, if his children were Syed, then why are all of Imam Ali's children not Syed?

Khums is a separte issue but if you're not sure then ask your Marjae or resident Alim etc, he may be able to shed more light into this subject for you.

Sorry, I do not have much time to (try) answering your questions as I am packing to leave for Shaam Ziyarah later this evening. I should hopefuly re-check this discussion once I am back home in a couple of weeks Inshallah.

I can not go in detail for obvious reasons at the moment but according to Quranic tafsir, The Holy Prophet Muhammad (Saws) has said:

Allah selected Adam in preference to all other creatures; from among the descendants of Adam, He selected Nuh; from among the descendants of Nuh, He selected Ibrahim; from among the descendants of Ibrahim, He selected Ismail; from among the Quraysh, He selected Hashim. All of them carried my nur (the first light which came forth from the absolute and goes on till the day of resurrection to manifest ultimately in the arc of ascent). It passed through Abd al Muttalib to Abdullah and Abu Talib. I am from Abdullah and Ali is from Abu Talib. Ali and I are one and the same nur.

Allah chose Adam, Nuh, ali Ibrahim and ali Imran in preference to others for appointing His messengers and guides. It is a selection from the descendants of Adam, Nuh, Ibrahim and Imran, because all their children did not have the superior quality to represent Allah.

This is all showing a natural selection process, bearing in mind that even right untill the very end, Hazrat Abbas (as) refered to themselves as the 'ghulam' of Imam Hussain (as) and not brother (even though they were). Maybe that should answer your question? If not I will try to address this question in more detail upon my return Inshallah.

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

Edited February 9, 2009 by nastynas

[nastynas]

assalamoallaikom

well you have charged us that we have forgotten our roots

sister , please read my posts again and you will inshallah see that i m FROM THE START , either quoting quranic verses or ahadeeth

and the people who are posting against me are either , concealing ahadeeth or giving their personal opinions....

well indulging in sin is a bit harsher , i would say

i mean which sort of sin are u talking about

if following ahadeeth is .............

sorry but i have to obey the masoomen , this is the order

mola ali said that do not see who is saying ,just see what is he saying

i cannot forget that

usooli,,,, every one is free though , so if you wish to continue following , it is your wish ......sorry if this has hurt you may Allah always protect u sister amin)

W/Salam brother toocoool66,

I must say, what you mentioned above has been a continued theme throughout this discussion. I could be mistaken but seems highly hypocritical of the brothers and sisters calling our beliefs 'elitist junk' and others overjoyed at the harsh language being used against us yet not giving reference from the noble Quran or Ahadeeth themselves. :wacko:

No one is forcing anyone to post here... If you do not have anything constructive to say then maybe you should wait untill you find something befitting before you reply? As according to the noble Quran " Conjecture cannot replace the truth " (53:28).

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

Edited February 9, 2009 by nastynas

[asma0401]

does this mean all of Imam Ali's children were Syed? why were they referred to as Alawis?

[deNOVO]

does this mean all of Imam Ali's children were Syed? why were they referred to as Alawis?

Stretching it by that criterion, won't that create a huge SNOWBALL??? not to mention the fact the name SYED would mean nothing 'exclusive' of the Holy Prophet's bloodline!

[SayYaAli]

now u said that there are many many ahadeeth which say mary marry marry

can u quote me 3 ?

Is it not sawab to be married? Its the state that protects from sin.

The Holy Prophet said: "Any young man who marries at the beginning of his youth, his devil moans and intensively regrets that he has protected two-third of his Faith from Satan."

Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 103, p. 221

The Holy Prophet said: "O' young people! If one of you is capable of marrying, then do it, because it is good for your eyes (not to stare at women) and protects your privy part (to remain more pious).

Mustadrak Wasa'il-ush Shi'ah, vol.14, p.153

The Holy Prophet forbade the life of celibacy, and prohibited women from living in chastity and allowing their selves to remain unmarried."

Mustadrak Wasa'il-ush Shi'ah, vol.14, p. 248

i even quoted from answering ansar that bibi zainab said that one needs to be kafir to do so.....read my last post ....

I can not picture Hazrat Zainab (a.s) allowing that scum to marry the daughter of ahlul baytr (a.s). Low birth does not NECESSARILY imply non-syed. Just the fact that the two backgrounds were in sharp contrast to each other.

well you have charged us that we have forgotten our roots

No, no, no. Not "we" and "our"!

I said:

I think that it is about being realistic in a world where many Syed families have tragically forgotten their roots and indulge in open sin. It is unfortunate but true

I was referring to....a lot of incidents. A shia syed boy who was in a drunken brawl at a pub in England. A shia syed boy who proposed to my cousin, turned out he was no boy but a man who lied about his age and concealed other less savoury aspects of his life. Just the other day a shia syeda friend of mine was telling me how it was so much sawab to fast on 10th Muharram because it is the day Firawn was defeated. *slaps forehead* Everybody knows that that's a Sunni belief! How many shia syed families allow their children to grow up into uninhibited adults? Without even basic knowledge of why being a shia is important! Although it is they who have a greater responsibility to remember!

the problem nowadays is not this that there are no syeds boys

:lol: Syed boys marry Sunnis, non-syedas, non-Muslims and unsuitable girls everyday. There is a lack of boys. If not that then at least it takes a very long time to find a fit! Anyway I think that's the case in Pakistan. A lot of the younger generation of Syed and Shia guys and gals both seem to have rolled up their sleeves and started on the dating "scene" with a vigour. *shrugs* That's my opinion.

the problem is that when girls have time , they have so much high demands like you see we tell our daughters

that there will be a prince for you etc

and when she gets to that age , first she wishes to have that ideal sort of man

That's a problem?

so it is that useless shame which is the problem

I might agree with you there. A lot of Halal things have been treated with disgust just because of the what-will-people-say phenomenon. Mutah for example. People cringe and hide it away.

well i dont know that why scholars allow it ..... i do know scholars who prohibit it and they quote the ahadeeth which i told u

so you should ask those who allow it as to why those people are allowing it?is there any hadeeth with them which allows a syed girl to marry a nonsyed....

Frankly I don't know. What I do know is I personally trust certain eminent scholars. It seems odd but SOME rulings do change to adjust with the times and with shifting perceptions. Gelating from halal sources even used to be a no-no in western countries. Apparently its no biggie anymore, it had been ruled that the gelatin changes its composition so much it is negligible provided it was taken in a small amount. Whether chess is haram or not was debated for a while. I trust that these ones have weighed all evidence (not a few ahadith but ALL, from BOTH sides of the fence) and have come to this ruling.

If it is something so haram in a black and white manner it would have been unanimously ruled forbidden outright. The fact is that everybody has a different situation.

sister i m keeping my comments reserved about a few point which you have quoted , espacially with regards to some scholars, just remember , that i m not usooli,,,, every one is free though , so if you wish to continue following , it is your wish......sorry if this has hurt you

No harm in it. I don't think either of us will move from our position! But do note that I agree it is BEST for a syed and syedna to marry. But I also think (based on scholars rulings) that you cannot forbid a syeda and non syed marrying every time.

I suppose it is one of those things that end in an "agree to disagree" manner.

may Allah always protect u sister amin

Allah protect you too.

Edited February 10, 2009 by SayYaAli

[toocoool66]

assalamoallaikom

Is it not sawab to be married? Its the state that protects from sin

it is sawab but sister , u cannot marry your brother or a hindu

or those whom aimmah have forbidden

well if u wish to , against the teachings of aimmah , you are free

The Holy Prophet said: "Any young man who marries at the beginning of his youth, his devil moans and intensively regrets that he has protected two-third of his Faith from Satan."

Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 103, p. 221

The Holy Prophet said: "O' young people! If one of you is capable of marrying, then do it, because it is good for your eyes (not to stare at women) and protects your privy part (to remain more pious).

Mustadrak Wasa'il-ush Shi'ah, vol.14, p.153

The Holy Prophet forbade the life of celibacy, and prohibited women from living in chastity and allowing their selves to remain unmarried."

Mustadrak Wasa'il-ush Shi'ah, vol.14, p. 248

sister but these did not say that a syed girl should marry ,

they just show the significance of marriage

I can not picture Hazrat Zainab (a.s) allowing that scum to marry the daughter of ahlul baytr (a.s). Low birth does not NECESSARILY imply non-syed. Just the fact that the two backgrounds were in sharp contrast to each other

sister dont draw your own pictures

you may be wrong

read the full post

and may be you get the truth

other wise you are off course free

It seems odd but SOME rulings do change to adjust with the times and with shifting perceptions

yes ruling do change and that is why i dont follow them

because what has been made halal is halal

and what has been made haram is haram

i or u cannot change that

we have to adjust according to the religion

not that we adjust religion according to our needs

But I also think (based on scholars rulings) that you cannot forbid a syeda and non syed marrying every time.

i am not forbidding anyone

as everyone is free

i am just telling u that if u wana do it , do it as u r free

but dont say that aimmah have allowed us

u said that there are many many many ahadeeth

but u could not even mention three

so????

come on

dont follow what you think

do u remember when u said

that we have to see what islam is saying

that is what i have been saying

remember we all have to die one day

no one knows even if he would be able to stand up after even reading this post

so better follow what has been told to us by aimmah

so that when we face them

we should not be ashamed

may Allah bless u all amin

[SayYaAli]

(wasalam)

it is sawab but sister , u cannot marry your brother or a hindu

or those whom aimmah have forbidden

I believe that is also mentioned in the Quran. So that's a no-brainer.

well if u wish to , against the teachings of aimmah , you are free

There's no need to take that tone.

sister dont draw your own pictures

you may be wrong

read the full post

and may be you get the truth

other wise you are off course free

Right back at you.

u said that there are many many many ahadeeth

but u could not even mention three

I said there are many, many hadith saying MARRY. Do you deny that?

so better follow what has been told to us by aimmah

so that when we face them

we should not be ashamed

In my opinion that is exacty what I am doing.

The ahadith posted by you, I cannot find them to say it is HARAM to marry non-syed. That is your interpretation of them. You are free to your own intrpretation as you are not Usooli. Well and good.

The believers are kuff for each other

Man La Yahdharhul Faqih, vol 3, Page 249

"Nobility is a matter of good intellect and good conduct, not of lineage and descent. "

Imam Ali (a.s)

Allah protect you.

Edited February 10, 2009 by SayYaAli

[dingdong]

I would love to see these folk stay for more than 5 minutes in a debate with Ayatollah Sistani on this topic. :D

[deNOVO]

I would love to see these folk stay for more than 5 minutes in a debate with Ayatollah Sistani on this topic. :D

LoL : if they can last 5 minutes at that, i think we actually HAVE an ISSUE here that can go either way, in that case :D

[toocoool66]

assalamoallaikom

In my opinion that is exacty what I am doing.

The ahadith posted by you, I cannot find them to say it is HARAM to marry non-syed. That is your interpretation of them. You are free to your own intrpretation as you are not Usooli. Well and good.

The believers are kuff for each other

Man La Yahdharhul Faqih, vol 3, Page 249

sister u are doing exactly the same which jondab did..........so let me give u that from my last post which was post number 27 in this thread u may read that

rather let me copy paste for u again from that

Which hadith in Man la yadharul Faqih says that 'syed is kufv for syed'?

from man la yadharul faqih , book of nikah , chapter TO BE KUFV AND EQUAL TO GET MARRIED, hadeeth number 4384

holy prophet looked towards children of ali and jafar and said

our sons are for our daughters and our daughters for our sons

EXPLANATION OF THIS HADEETH BY SHEIKH SADOOQ :-

from AITAQADAT , SHEIKH SADOOQ , urdu page 115

“Our belief about progeny of hadrat ali is that they are the Prophet’s descendants (children/progeny). Their Mawaddat is obligatory because this the Ajar – E – Rasaalat, and Sadaqah is prohibited on them being the cleansing part of (dirt) their Maal, except for their own amongst themselves, and they are ‘kufv’ of each other. This is due to the Prophet pbuh.gif where he said on looking at the children of Ali and Jaffar – E – Tayyar that, OUR daughters are the equals of OUR sons and OUR sons of OUR daughters”.

Why are you ignoring hadith No. 4385 in Man la Yadharul Faqih, which clearly says that believers are kufv for each other and 4386 which defines kufv as 'chaste'?

i thought that u r not aware of the hadeeth 4384, but sorry

u actually knew that it is just your love for sadaat .......that you are ignoring that

but please do remember

read quran and u will never find any verse which state that dont give zakat to sadaat

my dear , u will find plenty of verses which state give zakat to the deserving though

at the most what u can say is that one should not give zakat to ahlubait as per quran as Allah has kept away rijis for them

similarly u ll find ahadeeth which mention that u should give zakat to momineen and it will not be mentioned dont give to sadaat, though there are ahadeeth which say so

similarly

in quran in almost all the verses say that no one has ilm-e-ghayb except Allah

there is only one verse i think, from surat al jin which mention that there is a prophet as well

so what i want to say is once an exclusion is mentioned , it is not going to be repeated

you love sadaat so much and are paying the ajar-e-risalat in such a nice way

that u read hadeeth 4385 and 4386 and just multiplied hadeeth 4384 by zero

i m feeling sorry for you brother

and i m sorry if u r feeling hurt

but do think about what u have actually done........

u may read my posts again

I would love to see these folk stay for more than 5 minutes in a debate with Ayatollah Sistani on this topic

and i wish that those people had or still respond to my email which i wrote to them about this matter before switching from usoolism to

what i m now

tell u what

i was also in taqleed of this man which u r mentioning :!!!:

anyways every one is free

i have time and again given u the ahadeeth which state this

i even gave u link to an article

still if u guys think so,, continue doing so

i have already quoted

imam jafar told abu hamza thamali that

"stay awar from state and rulership , and riding behind other

he replied"may i be your fidya , as far as state is concerned that i understand , but as far as riding behind is concerned more than 2/3 of my life is spent in that"

imam said "no you have misunderstood

it means that you follow someone without HUJJAT AND EVIDENCE

AND THEN TESTIFY WHATEVER HE SAYS"

source: MA'ANI UL AKHBAR, sheikh sadooq, urdu , page 215

may Allah give all of us the opportunity to serve ahlubait

and live as per their orders

amin

[SayYaAli]

(wasalam)

holy prophet looked towards children of ali and jafar and said

our sons are for our daughters and our daughters for our sons

My view: But what if there was no son for the daughter or no daughter for the son at a given pont in time? Given that believer are kufu for each other...

I'm not gonna try to convince you any different from what you believe. Everybody is free to do what they think best. So having informed you on my view I'm gonna say:

may Allah give all of us the opportunity to serve ahlubait

and live as per their orders

to you too.

[deNOVO]

seems like there's no consensus on the issue, not amongst those from IDENTICAL school of thought even! If such is the ambiguity, i personally think, it CAN'T be HARAM or MANDATORY, as in HUKM! would anyone please correct/update me if i'm wrong???

[toocoool66]

assalamoallaikom

it CAN'T be HARAM or MANDATORY, as in HUKM! would anyone please correct/update me if i'm wrong???

what do u understand by HUKM?

if u mean by this FATWAS of mujtahids

then in usooli sub sect who follow mujtahids , there are plenty of mujtahids who have given fatwa that it can be done and have even married their daughters to non syeds

though there have been scholars who had forbidden it like syed najam-ul-hassan kararvi

who has written this in his book AZMAT-E-SADAAT

same wise there is a scholar about whom i have read

(i dont have that book so i m just mentioning what i read in another book, i dont have access to these books so u may check it and if wrong please correct me......thanks ali raza )

that allama ibn junaid mohammad bin ahmad bin hussein askafi gave the fatwa that such marriage is not allowed

and the book from which i m quoting

quotes it frOM

HAWASHI(that is foot notes) SHARAH LAM'A BOOK NIKAH PAGE 84 ,, MIRA'AT-UL-UQOOL VOL 3 PAGE 448

then these hubeali guys write that

Inclusion of this historic anal was not necessary in “Chouda Sitarray” as far the theme of this book. Hujjat-al-Islam -Allama Najam – Ul – Hassan Kararvi (Peshawar), (ra) was a historian, researcher and an Aalim of great repute. He himself was against such Haram acts.

There are forewords of Agha-al-Ozamah Syed Muhammed Kazim -Shariyat Madar (ra) who himself was opposed to such venture and called it HARAM. If he was not, he would have not certified the book. Agha-al-Ozamah Syed Muhammed Kazim -Shariyat Madar (ra) had great following and was a Mujtahid of great repute. His disapproval of Syedani’s marriage with Non-Syed is weighty enough to demolish the opposing school of thought

.

link:http://www.hubeali.com/Marriage-of-Syedani-with-Non-Syed.php

on the other hand the school of thought which follows the sayings of masoomen and consider that as a hokam

they dont go for it as they consider a kufv of syed girl to be syed only.........

and the reasons i have time and again told and quoted that

i would personally never go for that , that is allow a syed girl to marry non syed,,and would not recommend that

because we do have saying which tell us that such marriages should not take place

but the reverse we dont find

and i do not follow anyone blindly as is a hokam of my imam

so till the time we dont have a hadeeth from imam which allows such marriages , i dont have guts to go for it

if daughters of imam musa cannot marry

who are we to say that we should not die unmarried

i believe that we have to die one day

so we should not do such an act because of which we curse our selves on the day of judgment

and recommending it is even more risky because i would be getting punishment for recommending

in urdu we say

khaya na piya , glass tora bara aa'ne

anyways

every one is free

and every one is answerable for his actions

and of course recommendations

i thank u all who have read these posts of mine

my purpose had never been to hurt anyone

i m really sorry if someone has been hurt

and as far as

sayyaali is concerned

remember

i dont have a yonger sister

and u r just like that to me

my dear sister please do not mind if i have said anything which has hurt u

may Allah bless u

give u a very loving hubby

protect u

and give u all the happiness amin

[deNOVO]

so till the time we dont have a hadeeth from imam which allows such marriages , i dont have guts to go for it

if daughters of imam musa cannot marry

who are we to say that we should not die unmarried

this argument that u build here, can be used on the exact contrary: i mean, untill and unless there's a clear hadeeth forbidding it, shud we take the burden of propagating a CAREFUL VIRTUE??? sounds beyond reason really.

[Candela]

People are actually discussing this topic and bringing hadeeth into it as well, nothing suprises me anymore in this DEAD Ummah.

[deNOVO]

People are actually discussing this topic and bringing hadeeth into it as well, nothing suprises me anymore in this DEAD Ummah.

I know wat u mean there Candela, but ur point is???i mean quoting Hadeeth is NOT mandatory: can be ur personal views, really: shud it be done OR avoided??? :)

Edited February 17, 2009 by deNOVO

[Candela]

I know wat u mean there Candela, but ur point is???i mean quoting Hadeeth is NOT mandatory: can be ur personal views, really: shud it be done OR avoided??? :)

You know what I mean? How is that even remotely possible when you have written the above, would you mind explaining that please?

I mean using your brain is NOT mandatory, it can be avoided OR?

My point is simple: YOU GUYS ARE WEIRD

/WS

[deNOVO]

You know what I mean? How is that even remotely possible when you have written the above, would you mind explaining that please?

I mean using your brain is NOT mandatory, it can be avoided OR?

My point is simple: YOU GUYS ARE WEIRD

OUCH : that hurt!!! u simply OWNED me there!!!!

[mari]

Salaam.

Can a sunni mullane read a Nikah for a shia/ syed grl? Is it valid? i have recently heard that its invalid!

Thanks.

[deNOVO]

Salaam.

Can a sunni mullane read a Nikah for a shia/ syed grl? Is it valid? i have recently heard that its invalid!

Thanks.

why invalid when BOTH are MUSLIMS??? of course, unless u/the opposers think otherwise! :)

[Hur14]

Even though i myself am a Syed but i have a very strong conviction that Being a Hussaini is faaaaar more important then being anything else.

And guess what?

Anybody can choose to be a Hussaini

Its not only me, i am sure many of you must have seen many people who call themselves Syeds but are no where near to being a Hussainis.

From sharah point of view it is permissable to get married to non syeds.

~Abad wAllah Ya Zahra A.S manansa Hussaina A.S.~

[UnknownShia]

i think the whole "sayed" think has deformed into a matter of pride and social highness, and it seems more prevelant in the indian subcontinent

Edited March 22, 2009 by AlgerianShia

[nastynas]

Even though i myself am a Syed but i have a very strong conviction that Being a Hussaini is faaaaar more important then being anything else.

And guess what?

Anybody can choose to be a Hussaini

Its not only me, i am sure many of you must have seen many people who call themselves Syeds but are no where near to being a Hussainis.

From sharah point of view it is permissable to get married to non syeds.

~Abad wAllah Ya Zahra A.S manansa Hussaina A.S.~

First of all, Whether a Syed is good or bad is irrelevant to the subject at hand and secondly, according to Ahadeeth and the traditions of the Aima Masomeen (as) it is NOT permissable for a Syedah to marry a non Syed or have you missed some of the references provided?

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

[nastynas]

i think the whole "sayed" think has deformed into a matter of pride and social highness, and it seems more prevelant in the indian subcontinent

'You think'???

[shakir 17:36] And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

[haideriam]

(bismillah)

(salam)

there is not a single hadeeth that a syeda cannot marry a non syed.

all presented is conjecture(which for my akhbari brothers is qiyas and haram)

also

the brother has missed the point of bibi fatima(sa),

she is batool

just like bibi maryam(as) is a batool.

whenever we have a batool a switch takes place

the lineage/mantle passes from the male to/through the female(batool)

[haideriam]

First of all, Whether a Syed is good or bad is irrelevant to the subject at hand and secondly, according to Ahadeeth and the traditions of the Aima Masomeen (as) it is NOT permissable for a Syedah to marry a non Syed or have you missed some of the references provided?

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

(bismillah)

(salam)

the most beautiful thing in the world is a shian e ali(as)

[anzurna]

A logical answer:

Bibi Syeda Zainab (Leader of all Syed women-as well as Islam, having Father Amir-Ul-Momineen, having Brothers Savior of Islam, having Grandfather Founder of Islam - no Syed woman can be better than her) was married to Non-Syed Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Ja'far Tayyar Aleh Salam.

Edited January 19, 2011 by anzurna

[BaZaRi]

As far as purity of blood is concerned, it depends more on the character and morals of the husband and not who his ancestors were.

Not to be rude to women, but I do not understand why Syed girls should ignore GOOD proposals from non-syed boys based on that factor ONLY. I mean even if they marry a syed boy, the children become syed because of the husband and not her.

[Ali_Hussain]

As far as purity of blood is concerned, it depends more on the character and morals of the husband and not who his ancestors were.

Not to be rude to women, but I do not understand why Syed girls should ignore GOOD proposals from non-syed boys based on that factor ONLY. I mean even if they marry a syed boy, the children become syed because of the husband and not her.

A snob is someone who adopts the worldview of snobbery — that some people are inherently inferior to him or her for any one of a variety of reasons, including real or supposed intellect, wealth, education, ancestry, taste, beauty, et cetera. Often, the form of snobbery reflects the snob's personal attributes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snob

Edited January 19, 2011 by ShahHussain

[Bhooka_Bhairiya]

The notions of "syeda can only marry a syed" and "syeda's marriage with non syed is zina" have no basis in Imami shiaism and are only propagated by deviant heretic malangs/matamis/molayis etc. In fact, these concepts have been borrowed from the sunni notions of "ajlaf, ahraf" as seen in Beheshti Zewar of Molana Ashraf Ali Thanvi(deviant heretic sunni deobandi scholar) and Ahmad Reza Khan Barelwi(deviant heretic scholar, founder of barelwism)'s fatawa.

This hadith should clear up the issues.

Man la yahdhuruhul faqih:

æÞÇá ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå: (ÅäãÇ ÃäÇ ÈÔÑ ãËáßã ÃÊÒæÌ Ýíßã æÃÒæÌßã ÅáÇ ÝÇØãÉ ÝÅä ÊÒæíÌåÇ äÒá ãä ÇáÓãÇÁ

Prphet(PBUH) said "I'm not but example of a human, I'll marry within you and give(my daughters) for marriage(to you) except for Fatima(as) for her marriage orders came from sky."

[anzurna]

The notions of "syeda can only marry a syed" and "syeda's marriage with non syed is zina" have no basis in Imami shiaism and are only propagated by deviant heretic malangs/matamis/molayis etc. In fact, these concepts have been borrowed from the sunni notions of "ajlaf, ahraf" as seen in Beheshti Zewar of Molana Ashraf Ali Thanvi(deviant heretic sunni deobandi scholar) and Ahmad Reza Khan Barelwi(deviant heretic scholar, founder of barelwism)'s fatawa.

This hadith should clear up the issues.

Man la yahdhuruhul faqih:

æÞÇá ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå: (ÅäãÇ ÃäÇ ÈÔÑ ãËáßã ÃÊÒæÌ Ýíßã æÃÒæÌßã ÅáÇ ÝÇØãÉ ÝÅä ÊÒæíÌåÇ äÒá ãä ÇáÓãÇÁ

Prphet(PBUH) said "I'm not but example of a human, I'll marry within you and give(my daughters) for marriage(to you) except for Fatima(as) for her marriage orders came from sky."

You are right, as I said same example in my previous post:

A logical answer:

Bibi Syeda Zainab (Leader of all Syed women-as well as Islam, having Father Amir-Ul-Momineen, having Brothers Savior of Islam, having Grandfather Founder of Islam - no Syed woman can be better than her) was married to Non-Syed Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Ja'far Tayyar Aleh Salam.

[Ali_Hussain]

A logical answer:

Bibi Syeda Zainab (Leader of all Syed women-as well as Islam, having Father Amir-Ul-Momineen, having Brothers Savior of Islam, having Grandfather Founder of Islam - no Syed woman can be better than her) was married to Non-Syed Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Ja'far Tayyar Aleh Salam.

(salam)

yes, but to get around this, people say a sayed is anyone from the banu hashim, as such bibi Zeynab's (as) husband Abdullah, was in fact a sayed.

The bottom line is, for those who actually think it is haram for such a marriage to occure, it would be best not too marry into such a family, leave them to their superstitions, because there is no doubt they would talk down to, and mistreat the non-sayed who has married into their family.