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[Closed/Review]Jan Ali Kazmi

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Examples can be found in Jan Ali Kazmi’s Majlis, of when he goes on about the randomest thing--CIA Agents. Other mullah’s supposedly holding dinners with Saddam Hussein. Clarification of one’s own personal actions during Majlis-e-Hussain (a.s.), And other irrelevant things that do not need to be mentioned in a Majlis. A lot of other random things have been mentioned in the majlis that I heard, and I don`t know if you know this or not, but Majlis isn’t the place to be holding topics like those.

W'salaam

salaam

I havent heard his political non-Islamic Majalis, however I did catch part of his majalis on unity. I am puzzled why you should think discussions about CIA and Saddam Hussain are irrelevant .

This is just an observation but I would imagine that Moaviya and in particular Yazid were always keen to restrict political discussions by labelling them anti-Islamic.

Islam does not differentiate between politics and religion. This is an artificial western seperation.

However so I that i dont misconstrue what you are saying can you give me specific examples of what political subjects have no Islamic dimension.

Both examples you have given have strong Islamic dimensions particulary for Shias. I am surprised why you should wish to stop the open discussion of these subjects.

salaam

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salaam

I havent heard his political non-Islamic Majalis, however I did catch part of his majalis on unity. I am puzzled why you should think discussions about CIA and Saddam Hussain are irrelevant .

This is just an observation but I would imagine that Moaviya and in particular Yazid were always keen to restrict political discussions by labelling them anti-Islamic.

Islam does not differentiate between politics and religion. This is an artificial western seperation.

However so I that i dont misconstrue what you are saying can you give me specific examples of what political subjects have no Islamic dimension.

Both examples you have given have strong Islamic dimensions particulary for Shias. I am surprised why you should wish to stop the open discussion of these subjects.

salaam

Ya Ali Madad

Unity? First of all, let’s talk about what Unity is True Sunni. Unity means the state of being one; oneness. So then are you telling me that then for the sake of unity, you will leave your appraisals of the first 3 caliphs (LA)? Does it mean that you are willing to sacrifice certain beliefs just to unify with us? And why should it have to be the shias? Why are the shias always expected to be the ones to compromise their beliefs? Why can’t the sunnis stop appraising the 3 caliphs (LA) first!? Along with Yazid(LA) or Mauwiya(LA), or any cursed one? Why don’t they come to terms with history and accept the even of Ghadeer and Wilayat-e-Imam Ali (as)? Why don’t sunnis/wahabis accept who were at Haq and who were at Batil. I mean if we’re all for unity in this, then everyone should sacrifice, not just one sect abandoning their acts/beliefs due to another. Unity should be equal on both ends. Unity shouldn’t be a forced compromise. You see, we’re from the west, and in the west when you hear of unity, it means that two unique individuals are living in harmony even if they hold different beliefs. Not that one should leave certain acts or beliefs due to someone else. Acceptance of another’s belief is what the sunni/wahabi’s need to understand. I mean they can deal with having water at a hindu’s house, but I’ve seen sceanrios where extreme sunnis/wahabis think it’s haram to drink water in a shia’s house? Great Unity I must say! If unity means an unnecessary sacrifice of one’s beliefs to please another being, I’d say lanat on that sort of a unity.

I’m not telling anyone to stop open discussion of those sort of topics, but as I stated before, those sort of topics hold NO place in Majlis-e-Hussain (as). They can be held on other days in the mosque, just NOT during Majlis-e-Hussain (a.s) in Muharram/safar. But other than that, bring topics like these out, bring em out on “discussion days“! You’re not shia, you may not understand. And for the shia’s that do not understand when I say that, May Allah guide you to the right path. Ilahee Ameen.

And you do not need to be puzzled when I say that topics like the CIA or Saddam Hussain hold no place in Majlis-e-Hussain(as). Let me think of a way to explain this to you. It would be like going in to a Masjid during Milad-e-Nabi(as) and instead of the Fazail of Prophet Mohammed (as.) {Hoping that‘s what you guys do during Milad-e-Nabi(as)}, the molvi talks about how bad Pakistan/Muslims look due to the shootings that occurred in the cricket Stadium in Lahore where they tried to gun down Sri Lankan players. Yes, one should address that problem openly, but not during Milad-e-Nabi(as). Do you get what I’m saying? That’s how irrelevant it is to hold topics like those during Majlis-e-Hussain. The topics should be held openly during DISCUSSIONS, not during Majlis-e-Hussain(as). I hope that’s removed that puzzled look on your face.

W'salaam

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Ya Ali Madad

Unity? First of all, let’s talk about what Unity is True Sunni. Unity means the state of being one; oneness. So then are you telling me that then for the sake of unity, you will leave your appraisals of the first 3 caliphs (LA)? Does it mean that you are willing to sacrifice certain beliefs just to unify with us? And why should it have to be the shias? Why are the shias always expected to be the ones to compromise their beliefs? Why can’t the sunnis stop appraising the 3 caliphs (LA) first!? Along with Yazid(LA) or Mauwiya(LA), or any cursed one? Why don’t they come to terms with history and accept the even of Ghadeer and Wilayat-e-Imam Ali (as)? Why don’t sunnis/wahabis accept who were at Haq and who were at Batil. I mean if we’re all for unity in this, then everyone should sacrifice, not just one sect abandoning their acts/beliefs due to another. Unity should be equal on both ends. Unity shouldn’t be a forced compromise. You see, we’re from the west, and in the west when you hear of unity, it means that two unique individuals are living in harmony even if they hold different beliefs. Not that one should leave certain acts or beliefs due to someone else. Acceptance of another’s belief is what the sunni/wahabi’s need to understand. I mean they can deal with having water at a hindu’s house, but I’ve seen sceanrios where extreme sunnis/wahabis think it’s haram to drink water in a shia’s house? Great Unity I must say! If unity means an unnecessary sacrifice of one’s beliefs to please another being, I’d say lanat on that sort of a unity.

W'salaam

W/Salams,

You have hit the nail on the head in this post! There should be no compromise in our faith!

Also, these people fail to understand the difference between 'tolernace' and 'unity'. Once they can overcome their language barriers and understand this difference the quicker we will progress.

Ya Ali (as) Madad. :yaali:

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'SipaheMehdi' date='Mar 2 2009, 08:22 PM' post='1843432'

That is actually a very good point never thought of that. Found something to ask maulana :D. I guess a reply would be that you can curse any enemiy as much as you want but just be carefull how you do it. so recite ziarat e ashura but in an atmosphere where it does not create a problem.

Ya Ali Madad

But as you said, you can never be sure when the sunnis/wahabis are recording us to send the tapes back to the eastern world to promote shia killings. So we can't ever really recite Ziyarat-e-Ashura where it won't create a "problem", astaghfiruallah as you've put it (we've been reading it for centuries! and it's never been a Problem astaghfirullah!). So are you actually saying that if they give fatwa to take out the verses where it sends lanat upon the cursed ones, you would be alright with it and change the way you recite ziyarat-e-ashura? I have nothing more to say than FEETAY MOU to the whole idea. Either you understand that, or you don�t. But those are the ONLY words that come to mind and your �idea� has really killed the whole aspect of replying back to any thing else. Because if it was a matter of security, then again, we should ALL GO IN TAQAYYA. But to change our beliefs and compromise with THAT!? NO THANK YOU!

W'salaam

Salam,

You seem a bit keen for sister Zahra to answer true sunni's question? It is entirely your decision but it surprises me that when someone says Ya Ali (as) Madad you do not reply to that even if you just say Maula (as)'s name for blessings?

Forgive me if i'm mistaken but judging by your posts it looks as if you are purposefuly refraining from saying our Paak Imam (as)s name due to some kind of rival stubborness?

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

Thank you brother for stating the obvious. I was refraining myself from doing so lol, but I guess Haq always speaks out eh? One way or another :angel: :yaali:

Haq Haaaiider!

Edited by Zahra_Naqvi110

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[quote name='Zahra_Naqvi110' date='Mar 4 200If unity means an unnecessary sacrifice of one’s beliefs to please another being, I’d say lanat on that sort of a unity.

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[quote name='Zahra_Naqvi110' date='Mar 4 200If unity means an unnecessary sacrifice of one�s beliefs to please another being, I�d say lanat on that sort of a unity.

Its not compromising nor is it sacrificing, Ive already told you this in the other thread, so stop going on like a blind parrot, its about duniyadaari, thats what shiaism teaches. Being generous to family is the best zakat (imam ali as)

Lol for duniyadaari, I'm not willing to leave my deen. Maybe you are brother, but that's your own choice. Being generous to the family you said? What does that have to do with anything? And even if it does, one shouldn't associate with the family that is on the Batil side (against deen). Maybe your shiaism teaches duniyadaari, but as far the real shiaism is concerned, it's all about Hube-Ahle-Bayt(as)

Edited by Zahra_Naqvi110

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ALL GO IN TAQAYYA. But to change our beliefs and compromise with THAT!? NO THANK YOU!

yeah orite luv, follow youre yazeedi malang friends then, im sure theyll show you how to put karas on, I suggest you sit down and be quiet, and learn to respect for what shiaism is, where are you from? south of usa? pffff gimme a break, youre coming all the way from south of usa and telling us how to follow our deen, LOSER.

Lol for duniyadaari, I'm not willing to leave my deen. Maybe you are brother, but that's your own choice. Being generous to the family you said? What does that have to do with anything? And even if it does, one shouldn't associate with the family that is on the Batil side (against deen). Maybe your shiaism teaches duniyadaari, but as far the real shiaism is concerned, it's all about Hube-Ahle-Bayt(as)

LOL yea ok...you have no deen, so youre leaving nothing, what do you believe in anyway? a bunch of crazy majzoob/malangs/peers jumping from one side of the world to the other, oh wow they should be in the olympics LOL......

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yeah orite luv, follow youre yazeedi malang friends then, im sure theyll show you how to put karas on, I suggest you sit down and be quiet, and learn to respect for what shiaism is, where are you from? south of usa? pffff gimme a break, youre coming all the way from south of usa and telling us how to follow our deen, LOSER.

LOL yea ok...you have no deen, so youre leaving nothing, what do you believe in anyway? a bunch of crazy majzoob/malangs/peers jumping from one side of the world to the other, oh wow they should be in the olympics LOL......

Excuse me? Are you wahabi or something? Because I've met many shias, "liberals" and all, but none of them are as disrespectful towards the shia deen as you are.

and oh yeah, MY "yazidi friends?" Oh you mean the ones that say BER YAZID LANAT! BER MUAWIYAH LANAT! BER ABU BAKAR LANAT! BER UMER LANAT! BER USMAN LANAT! BER ABU SUFYAN LANAT! JINNAY NAI PAYJEE ODAY JEEN TAY LANATTTTT!!! BESHUMARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

And a reality check for you, all this time I've been AGAINST yazidiyat wheras YOU'VE been protecting it ! And asking us all not to be open about lanats and stuff, Ummmm I'm Syed Alhumdulillah so in no way am I related to any of them cursed "sahabas" or yazid's family, BUT it makes me wonder...why are YOU so defensive about Yazidiyat!? Even a SUNNI should be able to say BER YAZID LANATTTTTTT!!!!

Edited by Zahra_Naqvi110

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but as far the real shiaism is concerned, it's all about Hube-Ahle-Bayt(as)

Hub e Ahlul Bayt (as) is not following peers/faqirs/majzoobs unforunately :( Can you find me one hadith with the name of any peer/faqir/majzoob? Id love to hear youre answer. :)

Excuse me? Are you wahabi or something? Because I've met many shias, "liberals" and all, but none of them are as disrespectful towards the shia deen as you are.

and oh yeah, MY "yazidi friends?" Oh you mean the ones that say BER YAZID LANAT! BER MUAWIYAH LANAT! BER ABU BAKAR LANAT! BER UMER LANAT! BER USMAN LANAT! BER ABU SUFYAN LANAT! JINNAY NAI PEEJAY ODAY JEEN TAY LANATTTTT!!!

And a reality check for you, all this time I've been AGAINST yazidiyat wheras YOU'VE been protecting it ! And asking us all not to be open about lanats and stuff, Ummmm I'm Syed Alhumdulillah so in no way am I related to any of them cursed "sahabas" or yazid's family, BUT it makes me wonder...why are YOU so defensive about Yazidiyat!? Even a SUNNI should be able to say BER YAZID LANATTTTTTT!!!!

LOL....stick to cowboys hun

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Hub e Ahlul Bayt (as) is not following peers/faqirs/majzoobs unforunately :( Can you find me one hadith with the name of any peer/faqir/majzoob? Id love to hear youre answer. :)

LOL....stick to cowboys hun

As I can see, you make no sense! And nor do you have any base to what you're saying! Do YOU follow peers/faqirs/majzoobs!? I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE!!! I follow the teachings of Ahle-Bayth (a.s). Don't know about you and nor will I make any assumptions. I guess all I can say now is, you can follow your version of duniyadari shiasm associating with the yazidi lovers and not speak about haq, just don't bother to worry about what I follow.

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Hub e Ahlul Bayt (as) is not following peers/faqirs/majzoobs unforunately :( Can you find me one hadith with the name of any peer/faqir/majzoob? Id love to hear youre answer. :)

LOL....stick to cowboys hun

Why bring peer/fakirs etc into this? Hub-e-Ahlul Bayt is following the Ahlul Bayt so if a begger on the street follows the Ahlul Bayt and follows them blindingly sacrificing their whole life for them, is that wrong? Would we not love for that to be us but we are restricted by the goings-on in our lives ie. family commitments, work commitments etc.

Malangi is not drinking bhang and shaking your head while saying Imam Ali's name but following the Ahlul Bayt with a shred of doubt. The biggest malang was Hazrat Salman Al-Farsi, the guy who went against the establishment and followed Imam Ali, just like the Prophet told the 124000 gathered at Khumm, yet only a select few listened to him. He was the one who followed Imam Ali unreservedly.

Also lets not bring petty attitudes into a discussion. Calling someone a cowboy is pretty stupid considering she has already mentioned that she is a Syedzadi. You know what Syedzadi means right? In parts of the world, people bow in front of Syedzaday. Like I said, pretty stupid. Shows your intelligence that you can't come up with an argument but have to resort to insults.

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yeah orite luv, follow youre yazeedi malang friends then, im sure theyll show you how to put karas on, I suggest you sit down and be quiet, and learn to respect for what shiaism is, where are you from? south of usa? pffff gimme a break, youre coming all the way from south of usa and telling us how to follow our deen, LOSER.

LOL yea ok...you have no deen, so youre leaving nothing, what do you believe in anyway? a bunch of crazy majzoob/malangs/peers jumping from one side of the world to the other, oh wow they should be in the olympics LOL......

Lahore, there was no need for such comments and quite frankly I find your attitude disgusting! How exactly did you attribute the title yazeedi to Azadars of Imam Hussain (as) and where has Kara'a even come into this?

You talk about respect for Shia-ism yet by your above comments you show none yourself, do you know what that makes you?

Also, what does ones location have to do with their knowledge of Islam? Would it have made you more comfortable if sister Zahra came from Iraq as opposed to America? Your argument is not only silly but laced with huge amounts of ignorance.

Even though your reply was directed at sister Zahra it annoyed me so much I had to speak out, please pray the Aima Masomeen (as) forgive you for your disrespectful attitude.

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

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Ya Ali Madad

Unity? First of all, let’s talk about what Unity is True Sunni. Unity means the state of being one; oneness. So then are you telling me that then for the sake of unity, you will leave your appraisals of the first 3 caliphs (LA)? Does it mean that you are willing to sacrifice certain beliefs just to unify with us? And why should it have to be the shias? Why are the shias always expected to be the ones to compromise their beliefs? Why can’t the sunnis stop appraising the 3 caliphs (LA) first!? Along with Yazid(LA) or Mauwiya(LA), or any cursed one? Why don’t they come to terms with history and accept the even of Ghadeer and Wilayat-e-Imam Ali (as)? Why don’t sunnis/wahabis accept who were at Haq and who were at Batil. I mean if we’re all for unity in this, then everyone should sacrifice, not just one sect abandoning their acts/beliefs due to another. Unity should be equal on both ends. Unity shouldn’t be a forced compromise. You see, we’re from the west, and in the west when you hear of unity, it means that two unique individuals are living in harmony even if they hold different beliefs. Not that one should leave certain acts or beliefs due to someone else. Acceptance of another’s belief is what the sunni/wahabi’s need to understand. I mean they can deal with having water at a hindu’s house, but I’ve seen sceanrios where extreme sunnis/wahabis think it’s haram to drink water in a shia’s house? Great Unity I must say! If unity means an unnecessary sacrifice of one’s beliefs to please another being, I’d say lanat on that sort of a unity.

I’m not telling anyone to stop open discussion of those sort of topics, but as I stated before, those sort of topics hold NO place in Majlis-e-Hussain (as). They can be held on other days in the mosque, just NOT during Majlis-e-Hussain (a.s) in Muharram/safar. But other than that, bring topics like these out, bring em out on “discussion days“! You’re not shia, you may not understand. And for the shia’s that do not understand when I say that, May Allah guide you to the right path. Ilahee Ameen.

And you do not need to be puzzled when I say that topics like the CIA or Saddam Hussain hold no place in Majlis-e-Hussain(as). Let me think of a way to explain this to you. It would be like going in to a Masjid during Milad-e-Nabi(as) and instead of the Fazail of Prophet Mohammed (as.) {Hoping that‘s what you guys do during Milad-e-Nabi(as)}, the molvi talks about how bad Pakistan/Muslims look due to the shootings that occurred in the cricket Stadium in Lahore where they tried to gun down Sri Lankan players. Yes, one should address that problem openly, but not during Milad-e-Nabi(as). Do you get what I’m saying? That’s how irrelevant it is to hold topics like those during Majlis-e-Hussain. The topics should be held openly during DISCUSSIONS, not during Majlis-e-Hussain(as). I hope that’s removed that puzzled look on your face.

W'salaam

to summarise what you are saying. Basically you would prefer politico-religio topics discussed when no-one is around to hear them. Interesting concept.

Moaviya and Yazid probably had the same great idea. You should be very careful whose sunnat you folow when you call yourself Shia-e-Ali.

There were supposedly many Shia-e-Ali in Kufa during the martyrdom of Imam Hussain. I wonder whose sunnat they followed.

salaam

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to summarise what you are saying. Basically you would prefer politico-religio topics discussed when no-one is around to hear them. Interesting concept.

Moaviya and Yazid probably had the same great idea. You should be very careful whose sunnat you folow when you call yourself Shia-e-Ali.

There were supposedly many Shia-e-Ali in Kufa during the martyrdom of Imam Hussain. I wonder whose sunnat they followed.

salaam

AssalaamuAlaikum and Ya Ali Madad

So to “summarize” how your mind works, I can see that you like to make your own assumptions as you read my posts. “Interesting concept.”

Lol you see True sunni, I can act just as arrogant as you if I wanted, but I shall not, since at least one of us needs to remain logical and should try to explain what they really mean to avoid any misunderstandings.

Not once in any of my posts have I said that those topics should not be talked about openly or talked about “when no-one is around to hear them“ . I just have a difference of opinion when it comes to when those topics are being held at ie Majlis-e-Hussain(as). Again, as a reminder, I just believe that Muharram and Safar should be solely devoted to Fazail-e-Ahle-Bayth

You see, the mosque can let the momins know that there will be a discussion about so and so on this date and at this time. And we also have regular Thursday Majlis’s throughout the whole year, where a local maulana can bring those topics up since I guess people are absolutely dying to hear about it.

And yes I’m aware of which sunnats I follow. I know that most of my sunnats aren’t from any second source, but from the main source itself. Since you may know that most of the Hadith that the Shia follow are MOSTLY from the Alay Mohammed (as) directly.

Lol if you want to bring up sunnat-e-rasool (as), lol brother, don’t get me started on certain things in Sunnism that aren’t Sunnat-e-Rasool, but yet people take those acts as wajib even though the Prophet Mohammed (as) told the people not to. So makes me wonder, who’s sunnat are you following? The Prophet’s(a.s) or the self voted Caliphs?

I’m glad to inform you that I do not praise a tyrant like Yazid/Mauwiya, nor do I try to hide their blasphemous acts to cover up the truth (as some do). So do not associate me with them, for they are not on the side of whom I’m associated to.

It would be appreciated if you did not try to twist and turn my words to your own liking.

:yaali:

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AssalaamuAlaikum and Ya Ali Madad

So to “summarize” how your mind works, I can see that you like to make your own assumptions as you read my posts. “Interesting concept.”

Lol you see True sunni, I can act just as arrogant as you if I wanted, but I shall not, since at least one of us needs to remain logical and should try to explain what they really mean to avoid any misunderstandings.

It would be appreciated if you did not try to twist and turn my words to your own liking.

:yaali:

I have to frame this post lol... :yaali:

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Lahore, there was no need for such comments and quite frankly I find your attitude disgusting! How exactly did you attribute the title yazeedi to Azadars of Imam Hussain (as) and where has Kara'a even come into this?

You talk about respect for Shia-ism yet by your above comments you show none yourself, do you know what that makes you?

Also, what does ones location have to do with their knowledge of Islam? Would it have made you more comfortable if sister Zahra came from Iraq as opposed to America? Your argument is not only silly but laced with huge amounts of ignorance.

Even though your reply was directed at sister Zahra it annoyed me so much I had to speak out, please pray the Aima Masomeen (as) forgive you for your disrespectful attitude.

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

Ya Ali (a.s.) Madad

I agree with the fact that his attitude is just disgusting. And yes it also brought confusion to myself when he mentioned "kara", I also don't see what that has ANYTHING to do with this. Ignorance is totally NOT a bliss. Anyway, thanks for speaking out.

Maula Waris!

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Why bring peer/fakirs etc into this? Hub-e-Ahlul Bayt is following the Ahlul Bayt so if a begger on the street follows the Ahlul Bayt and follows them blindingly sacrificing their whole life for them, is that wrong? Would we not love for that to be us but we are restricted by the goings-on in our lives ie. family commitments, work commitments etc.

Malangi is not drinking bhang and shaking your head while saying Imam Ali's name but following the Ahlul Bayt with a shred of doubt. The biggest malang was Hazrat Salman Al-Farsi, the guy who went against the establishment and followed Imam Ali, just like the Prophet told the 124000 gathered at Khumm, yet only a select few listened to him. He was the one who followed Imam Ali unreservedly.

Also lets not bring petty attitudes into a discussion. Calling someone a cowboy is pretty stupid considering she has already mentioned that she is a Syedzadi. You know what Syedzadi means right? In parts of the world, people bow in front of Syedzaday. Like I said, pretty stupid. Shows your intelligence that you can't come up with an argument but have to resort to insults.

Ya Ali Madad

Thanks brother Askari Jafri, and I love the way that you've put history out there as well for them to understand that the sunni's aspect of looking at Islam isn't complete since they haven't accepted Wilayat-e-Imam Ali (as), as we all know of the Quranic Ayats that came and the "Sahih" Hadiths which can bear witness to the fact, since they regard those Sahih books as 2nd authentic next to the Holy Quran Paak.

Haq Haiider!

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AssalaamuAlaikum and Ya Ali Madad

So to “summarize” how your mind works, I can see that you like to make your own assumptions as you read my posts. “Interesting concept.”

Lol you see True sunni, I can act just as arrogant as you if I wanted, but I shall not, since at least one of us needs to remain logical and should try to explain what they really mean to avoid any misunderstandings.

Not once in any of my posts have I said that those topics should not be talked about openly or talked about “when no-one is around to hear them“ . I just have a difference of opinion when it comes to when those topics are being held at ie Majlis-e-Hussain(as). Again, as a reminder, I just believe that Muharram and Safar should be solely devoted to Fazail-e-Ahle-Bayth

You see, the mosque can let the momins know that there will be a discussion about so and so on this date and at this time. And we also have regular Thursday Majlis’s throughout the whole year, where a local maulana can bring those topics up since I guess people are absolutely dying to hear about it.

And yes I’m aware of which sunnats I follow. I know that most of my sunnats aren’t from any second source, but from the main source itself. Since you may know that most of the Hadith that the Shia follow are MOSTLY from the Alay Mohammed (as) directly.

Lol if you want to bring up sunnat-e-rasool (as), lol brother, don’t get me started on certain things in Sunnism that aren’t Sunnat-e-Rasool, but yet people take those acts as wajib even though the Prophet Mohammed (as) told the people not to. So makes me wonder, who’s sunnat are you following? The Prophet’s(a.s) or the self voted Caliphs?

I’m glad to inform you that I do not praise a tyrant like Yazid/Mauwiya, nor do I try to hide their blasphemous acts to cover up the truth (as some do). So do not associate me with them, for they are not on the side of whom I’m associated to.

It would be appreciated if you did not try to twist and turn my words to your own liking.

:yaali:

salaam

obviously sarcasm is beyond you. Or it that you attend some mystical Idare / Mosque where it is full of people all year around and not just for 2 eids and 10 days of Moharram.

logic dictates if an issue is iportant discuss it when people are around.

My comment about sunnat obviously alluded you. Even Moaviyah had some nice things to say about Hz Ali(as). Hoever he made sure when the mosques were full he cursed him and when he had a few select people around him he spoke the truth.

Truth is for the masses not the select few. If you wish to higlight issues highlight them when people are around. No use spouting the truth in an empty hall.

So as I said whose sunnat are you following when you wish to spout the truth to the few not the many.

salaam

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Salaams

True Sunni

Fazail-e-Ahlul Bayt is the TRUTH. So you should speak about it when the crowd is full.

If you listen to the truth about the Ahlul Bayt you will learn everything.

Wassalaam

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Salaams

True Sunni

Fazail-e-Ahlul Bayt is the TRUTH. So you should speak about it when the crowd is full.

If you listen to the truth about the Ahlul Bayt you will learn everything.

Wassalaam

:yaali: The quicker people understand that, the better!

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

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Salaams

True Sunni

Fazail-e-Ahlul Bayt is the TRUTH. So you should speak about it when the crowd is full.

If you listen to the truth about the Ahlul Bayt you will learn everything.

Wassalaam

Yes and Moviya apparently spoke the truth in empty halls and cursed in full ones. In Islam you cannot seperate politics and religion this being very much a Moaviya trait.

I would guess that mosques were full in Sham and the soldiers belly full of blood lust to fulfill Islams dstiny.

But their 'religion' was hollow because they only folowed the shadow of Islam not Islam

Why are you afraid of discussion of the truth in full halls what are you trying to hide. Hazarding a guess the reason why you are so against discussion of politics and religion is because currently Iran is the major topic of discussion when it comes to Shia Islam. I notice all the anti-politics brigade are by and large the malang lobby or the anti-Iran shia group.

By discussing politics from the mimbar you discuss Irans role and thus Iran would win more followers from the Shia.

Therefore the malangs and anti-Iran lobby would prefer to keep the majority of shias ignorant because only in a atmosphere of ignorance can they hope to succeed

Be careful whose sunnat you follow when you chose to seperate politics and religion.

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Salaams

True Sunni im afraid you didnt speak any sense. Muawiyah spoke the truth in the empty halls and if we speak the fazail e Ahlul Bayt in full halls then we are against the sunnat of Muawiyah.

Please explain to me how Muawiyahs tradition link in as he spoke true and false however our aalims SHOULD only speak the truth so there is no way we can be compared to Muawiyahs sunnat.

Wassalaam

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salaam

obviously sarcasm is beyond you. Or it that you attend some mystical Idare / Mosque where it is full of people all year around and not just for 2 eids and 10 days of Moharram.

logic dictates if an issue is iportant discuss it when people are around.

My comment about sunnat obviously alluded you. Even Moaviyah had some nice things to say about Hz Ali(as). Hoever he made sure when the mosques were full he cursed him and when he had a few select people around him he spoke the truth.

Truth is for the masses not the select few. If you wish to higlight issues highlight them when people are around. No use spouting the truth in an empty hall.

So as I said whose sunnat are you following when you wish to spout the truth to the few not the many.

salaam

Ya Ali Madad and W’salaam

Fortunately, Shia Idara’s always have regular Thrusday night majlis throughout the whole year, not only that but some also hold Du’a-e-Tawassul on every Tuesday Night. And then of course we all can’t forget Friday prayers. So you know what, I don’t know about YOUR Idara’s but Alhumdulillah, Shias always have the mosque flowing with people. And no it’s not just 2 eids, it’s 5 eids. And I know that you most probably missed the following three out:

Eid-al-Mubahalah - When a verse from the Quran was revealed enjoining upon the Prophet(a.s) to call the Christians to Mubahalah. The verse is as follows from Chapter 3 Verse 61 :And unto him who disputeth with thee therein after the knowledge hath come unto thee, Say ! ( O' Our Apostle Muhammad ! ) ( Unto them ) come ye, let us summon our sons, and ( ye summon ) your sons, and ( we summon ) our women and ( ye ) your women, and ( we summon ) ourselves and then let us invoke the curse of God on the liars !

And When the Prophet (a.s) went at the appointed hour, a huge crowd (Christians), standing in wait, saw the Holy Prophet (a.s) coming with Imam Hussain (a.s) in his arms, Imam Hasan(a.s) holding his index finger walking beside him, Bibi Fatimah Zahra(a.s) close behind him and Imam Ali (a.s) just behind her-as his sons, women, and selves.

The Prophet(a.s) on reaching the appointed spot stationed himself with his daughter, her two sons and her husband, raising his hands towards the heaven said : Lord these are the People of my House (Ahle-Bayt). The Christians of Najran were awestruck and spellbound when they saw the five (pbut) together.

Abdul Haris lbne Alqama, the greatest scholar among them, addressed his people:

"Verily I see a divine light on the face of our combatants, I am beholding such faces among them as can make the mountains move from their spots if they pray to God. So beware! Never try to contest with them, otherwise you will perish and the entire nation of Christians will succumb to extinction!"

Hence the Christians of Najran people readily agreed to the advice counseled by their Leader. They beseeched the Holy Prophet ( pbuh&f ) to give up the idea of the agreed Mubahalah and requested for themselves to be allowed to continue their faith, offering to pay ' Jizya.

This historic event of a unique triumph of Islam is taken by the Shias as a religious thanksgiving festival of the triumph against falsehood. It also clarifies once again without any doubt to who the members of the Ahle-Bayt (a.s) are.

Eid-e-Zahra(as) - One of the great companions and true followers of Ahlul Bayt (A.S.), took revenge from killers of Imam Hussain (A.S.) by killing them all in the same manner as they did, and then he sent to Beemar-e-Karbala Hazrat Imam Zain-ul Abideen (A.S.) the heads of the slaughterers of Imam Hussain (A.S.) including Ibne Ziyad(LA) and Umer bin Sa'ad(LA).

Hence, we the Shias also celebrate the day on which justice was brought (somewhat) when the heads of the cursed tyrants were brought.

And of course as muslims, we can not forget about the Eid which completes our Deen, known as:

Eid-e-Ghadeer- Ghadeer is the anniversary commemorating the holy Prophet Muhammad's(a.s) last sermon at Ghadir Khumm, which occurred on 18th of Dhu al-Hijjah of 10 AH in the Islamic calendar. It is an event celebrated by Shias, and is the basis of our confirmation of Ali ibn Abi Talib's (a.s) succession to our Holy Prophet Muhammad (a.s). Sunni Muslims do not deny that a last sermon took place.

Revelation of Qur'anic Verse 5:67

In this place, the following verse of the Qur'an was revealed: "O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)

So when the event of Ghadeer took place, where Hazrat Jibraeal (a.s) came with a message from Allah for the Holy Prophet (a.s) stating that give out the message today, that if you do not give, Islam will not be completed. That's when The Prophet (a.s) told THOUSANDS of people "MAN KUNTO MAULA, FAHAZA ALI-UN MAULA" ...meaning " JISKA MAIN MAULA, USKA ALI (as) MAULA" also another Sahih Hadith is where the Prophet (a.s) said, "If i'm the city of Knowledge, Ali (a.s) is the gate to that city".

Revelation of Qur'anic Verse 5:3

Immediately after the Prophet (a.s) finished his speech, the following verse of the Qur'an was revealed: "Today I have perfected your religion and completed my favour upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion." (Qur'an 5:3)

The above verse clearly indicates that Islam without clearing up matter of leadership after Prophet (as) was not complete, and completion of religion was due to announcement of the Prophet (as) successor Imam Ali (as).

Oath of Allegiance

After his speech, The Holy Prophet(as) asked everybody to give the oath of allegiance to Imam Ali (as) and congratulate him. Among those who did so was 'Umar b. al-Khattab, who said: "Well done Ibn Abi Talib(as)! Today you became the Leader (mawla) of all believing men and women."

As quoted from,-Ibn Hanbal, Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Hanbal b. Hilal b. Asad, Abu `Abd Allah al-Shaybani al-Marwazi-Affan b. Muslim b. `Abd Allah, Abu `Uthman al-Saffar al-Basri al-Ansari(d. 219 AH/834 CE)

And Many more History books :)

So hmm, I wonder why after the Prophet (as) left this world, some people went against the teachings of The Prophet (as) and made their own worldly government. Known as the event of SAQEEFA. Where they met up in secrecy to plot who will become the successor even though the Prophet (a.s) had already appointed a legit one before he (as) left the world.

So Anyways, Shia Muslims tend to celebrate those certain Eids as well, of course not forgetting the day that marks the completion of our own Deen-e-Islam as declared by Allah (swt). So, True Sunni, if I put my mind into it, MAYBE I might understand why SUNNI’s don’t celebrate Eid-e-Mubahalah or Eid-e-Zahra(s), but Why don’t the sunni’s celebrate Eid-e-Ghadeer? Isn’t Islam their deen as well? Do they not care to celebrate the auspicious day of when Islam was completed by Allah(swt)!?

And another thing, it’s not just 10 days of Muharram, it’s 2 months and 8 days, and Alhumdulillah we have a Majlis every one of those days at my Local Mosque. And no we’re not living in a Mythical Land. It actually Happens. Aside from all those of course, we have MANY more days! The sacred month of Ramadan, every Wiladat of our Imam (as), Holy Prophet(as), Bibi Fatima Zahra (as) etc, and then there’s every shahadat date where we go to the mosques at for a Majlis.

So Alhumdulillah, again, I don’t know about your Idara’s, but God Bless, we always have a Majlis or a Milad happening and even besides just Majlis or Milad, we have other days on which discussions take place. It’s usually easy passing out word if there’s an event happening at the Idara(seeing that it‘s the 21st century now and we have technology), something called posting flyers, calling, emailing or announcing those “discussion day” dates after a Majlis or Milad.

I hope that’s cleared your assumption of how you thought that Shia’s only show up at a Mosque when it’s the first ten days of Muharram or when it’s Eid-ul-Fitr or Eid-al-Aza. So NO, it’s NOT empty in our Idara’s when it’s not Muharram or Eid-ul-Fitr/Eid-al-Aza. Please do get your facts straight. The “empty” hall that you had referred to might be in your own sect where people are seasonal only (Ramadan to pray the blessed tarawees that Umar left for you guys as nearly as a wajib act as some people take it of course), but not in ours.

And as far as who follows Mauwiya’s traits comes…lol do you really want me to go into that now as well? Atleast we say Lanat to him out in the open ….AND NOT ONLY THEN but also when we’re in the comfort of our own homes. So, NO, we aren’t following Mauwiya’s traits. And we do bring issues out in the open, we don’t hide the truth, we say it blatantly.

And yes we speak the truth in the company of many beliefs, not just ours. And then it’s a personal choice of whether one accepts the truth, or refuses to believe.

Maula (as) Waris!

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Ya Ali Madad and W’salaam

Fortunately, Shia Idara’s always have regular Thrusday night majlis throughout the whole year, not only that but some also hold Du’a-e-Tawassul on every Tuesday Night. And then of course we all can’t forget Friday prayers. So you know what, I don’t know about YOUR Idara’s but Alhumdulillah, Shias always have the mosque flowing with people. And no it’s not just 2 eids, it’s 5 eids. And I know that you most probably missed the following three out:

Eid-al-Mubahalah - When a verse from the Quran was revealed enjoining upon the Prophet(a.s) to call the Christians to Mubahalah. The verse is as follows from Chapter 3 Verse 61 :And unto him who disputeth with thee therein after the knowledge hath come unto thee, Say ! ( O' Our Apostle Muhammad ! ) ( Unto them ) come ye, let us summon our sons, and ( ye summon ) your sons, and ( we summon ) our women and ( ye ) your women, and ( we summon ) ourselves and then let us invoke the curse of God on the liars !

And When the Prophet (a.s) went at the appointed hour, a huge crowd (Christians), standing in wait, saw the Holy Prophet (a.s) coming with Imam Hussain (a.s) in his arms, Imam Hasan(a.s) holding his index finger walking beside him, Bibi Fatimah Zahra(a.s) close behind him and Imam Ali (a.s) just behind her-as his sons, women, and selves.

The Prophet(a.s) on reaching the appointed spot stationed himself with his daughter, her two sons and her husband, raising his hands towards the heaven said : Lord these are the People of my House (Ahle-Bayt). The Christians of Najran were awestruck and spellbound when they saw the five (pbut) together.

Abdul Haris lbne Alqama, the greatest scholar among them, addressed his people:

"Verily I see a divine light on the face of our combatants, I am beholding such faces among them as can make the mountains move from their spots if they pray to God. So beware! Never try to contest with them, otherwise you will perish and the entire nation of Christians will succumb to extinction!"

Hence the Christians of Najran people readily agreed to the advice counseled by their Leader. They beseeched the Holy Prophet ( pbuh&f ) to give up the idea of the agreed Mubahalah and requested for themselves to be allowed to continue their faith, offering to pay ' Jizya.

This historic event of a unique triumph of Islam is taken by the Shias as a religious thanksgiving festival of the triumph against falsehood. It also clarifies once again without any doubt to who the members of the Ahle-Bayt (a.s) are.

Eid-e-Zahra(as) - One of the great companions and true followers of Ahlul Bayt (A.S.), took revenge from killers of Imam Hussain (A.S.) by killing them all in the same manner as they did, and then he sent to Beemar-e-Karbala Hazrat Imam Zain-ul Abideen (A.S.) the heads of the slaughterers of Imam Hussain (A.S.) including Ibne Ziyad(LA) and Umer bin Sa'ad(LA).

Hence, we the Shias also celebrate the day on which justice was brought (somewhat) when the heads of the cursed tyrants were brought.

And of course as muslims, we can not forget about the Eid which completes our Deen, known as:

Eid-e-Ghadeer- Ghadeer is the anniversary commemorating the holy Prophet Muhammad's(a.s) last sermon at Ghadir Khumm, which occurred on 18th of Dhu al-Hijjah of 10 AH in the Islamic calendar. It is an event celebrated by Shias, and is the basis of our confirmation of Ali ibn Abi Talib's (a.s) succession to our Holy Prophet Muhammad (a.s). Sunni Muslims do not deny that a last sermon took place.

Revelation of Qur'anic Verse 5:67

In this place, the following verse of the Qur'an was revealed: "O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)

So when the event of Ghadeer took place, where Hazrat Jibraeal (a.s) came with a message from Allah for the Holy Prophet (a.s) stating that give out the message today, that if you do not give, Islam will not be completed. That's when The Prophet (a.s) told THOUSANDS of people "MAN KUNTO MAULA, FAHAZA ALI-UN MAULA" ...meaning " JISKA MAIN MAULA, USKA ALI (as) MAULA" also another Sahih Hadith is where the Prophet (a.s) said, "If i'm the city of Knowledge, Ali (a.s) is the gate to that city".

Revelation of Qur'anic Verse 5:3

Immediately after the Prophet (a.s) finished his speech, the following verse of the Qur'an was revealed: "Today I have perfected your religion and completed my favour upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion." (Qur'an 5:3)

The above verse clearly indicates that Islam without clearing up matter of leadership after Prophet (as) was not complete, and completion of religion was due to announcement of the Prophet (as) successor Imam Ali (as).

Oath of Allegiance

After his speech, The Holy Prophet(as) asked everybody to give the oath of allegiance to Imam Ali (as) and congratulate him. Among those who did so was 'Umar b. al-Khattab, who said: "Well done Ibn Abi Talib(as)! Today you became the Leader (mawla) of all believing men and women."

As quoted from,-Ibn Hanbal, Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Hanbal b. Hilal b. Asad, Abu `Abd Allah al-Shaybani al-Marwazi-Affan b. Muslim b. `Abd Allah, Abu `Uthman al-Saffar al-Basri al-Ansari(d. 219 AH/834 CE)

And Many more History books :)

So hmm, I wonder why after the Prophet (as) left this world, some people went against the teachings of The Prophet (as) and made their own worldly government. Known as the event of SAQEEFA. Where they met up in secrecy to plot who will become the successor even though the Prophet (a.s) had already appointed a legit one before he (as) left the world.

So Anyways, Shia Muslims tend to celebrate those certain Eids as well, of course not forgetting the day that marks the completion of our own Deen-e-Islam as declared by Allah (swt). So, True Sunni, if I put my mind into it, MAYBE I might understand why SUNNI’s don’t celebrate Eid-e-Mubahalah or Eid-e-Zahra(s), but Why don’t the sunni’s celebrate Eid-e-Ghadeer? Isn’t Islam their deen as well? Do they not care to celebrate the auspicious day of when Islam was completed by Allah(swt)!?

And another thing, it’s not just 10 days of Muharram, it’s 2 months and 8 days, and Alhumdulillah we have a Majlis every one of those days at my Local Mosque. And no we’re not living in a Mythical Land. It actually Happens. Aside from all those of course, we have MANY more days! The sacred month of Ramadan, every Wiladat of our Imam (as), Holy Prophet(as), Bibi Fatima Zahra (as) etc, and then there’s every shahadat date where we go to the mosques at for a Majlis.

So Alhumdulillah, again, I don’t know about your Idara’s, but God Bless, we always have a Majlis or a Milad happening and even besides just Majlis or Milad, we have other days on which discussions take place. It’s usually easy passing out word if there’s an event happening at the Idara(seeing that it‘s the 21st century now and we have technology), something called posting flyers, calling, emailing or announcing those “discussion day” dates after a Majlis or Milad.

I hope that’s cleared your assumption of how you thought that Shia’s only show up at a Mosque when it’s the first ten days of Muharram or when it’s Eid-ul-Fitr or Eid-al-Aza. So NO, it’s NOT empty in our Idara’s when it’s not Muharram or Eid-ul-Fitr/Eid-al-Aza. Please do get your facts straight. The “empty” hall that you had referred to might be in your own sect where people are seasonal only (Ramadan to pray the blessed tarawees that Umar left for you guys as nearly as a wajib act as some people take it of course), but not in ours.

And as far as who follows Mauwiya’s traits comes…lol do you really want me to go into that now as well? Atleast we say Lanat to him out in the open ….AND NOT ONLY THEN but also when we’re in the comfort of our own homes. So, NO, we aren’t following Mauwiya’s traits. And we do bring issues out in the open, we don’t hide the truth, we say it blatantly.

And yes we speak the truth in the company of many beliefs, not just ours. And then it’s a personal choice of whether one accepts the truth, or refuses to believe.

Maula (as) Waris!

Well congratulations you live in Utopia . Not only do you have a large attendence throughout the year but you also manage to invite high calibre speakers to all these weekly events.

And i also commend all your audience who re fully conversant in English and Urdu and regularly go on the internet to followw arguments

However for us lesser mortals who have to live in the real world we have to access high calibre speakers when we can.

As I said the in the real world the 'truth' should not be limited to those who have an interest in the subject already.

The resposibility of the truth holders is to spread the message of the truth as far and as wide as possible.

All I can see is that you continue to folow Moaviyas sunnat by limiting politics to special occasions and thus effectively seperating politic and religion.

Seperating politics and religion was on of the foundations of Moaviya success.

The problem is a lot of Shias have become infected by Moaviyas sunnat and the reason is their 'hatred' of Iran.

Perhaps the 'malangs' should search in their hearts and clearly think whose sunnat they are following not allowng their 'blind hatred' of Iran to contaminate their minds.

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Salaams

True Sunni im afraid you didnt speak any sense. Muawiyah spoke the truth in the empty halls and if we speak the fazail e Ahlul Bayt in full halls then we are against the sunnat of Muawiyah.

Please explain to me how Muawiyahs tradition link in as he spoke true and false however our aalims SHOULD only speak the truth so there is no way we can be compared to Muawiyahs sunnat.

Wassalaam

What I was saying should not have been taken literally it was taking poetic licence. Let me explain, Shias regularly post hadith to show that even Moaviya praised Hz Ali (as). If indeed he did praise Hz Ali(as) he didnt praise very loud or very far. Otherwise why the cursing from the mimbar.

So what I meant by following the sunnat of Moaviya is if you want to hide the truth say it when no-one is around or distract people from the truth.

So how the question is how do you follow the sunnat of Moaviya in the Shia setting.

Well for a start you discuss politics in isolation without the religous element

You discuss politics to a very limited audience ie keep the masses ignorant. and finally here is the clever bit

You focus people attention purely on an aspect of religion without taking the discussion to its logical conclusion.

ie You discuss Fazael Ahlul-bait but do not show people how this is to applied in real life and indeed how it is being applied in real life.

Moaviya rule would have been at risk if people ha started to question his politics So he focused peoples attention on just the actions of religion, not the application of religion.

So a I said if you seperate politics from religion or try to limit its discussion you folow the Sunnat of moaviya

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Well congratulations you live in Utopia . Not only do you have a large attendence throughout the year but you also manage to invite high calibre speakers to all these weekly events.

And i also commend all your audience who re fully conversant in English and Urdu and regularly go on the internet to followw arguments

However for us lesser mortals who have to live in the real world we have to access high calibre speakers when we can.

As I said the in the real world the 'truth' should not be limited to those who have an interest in the subject already.

The resposibility of the truth holders is to spread the message of the truth as far and as wide as possible.

All I can see is that you continue to folow Moaviyas sunnat by limiting politics to special occasions and thus effectively seperating politic and religion.

Seperating politics and religion was on of the foundations of Moaviya success.

The problem is a lot of Shias have become infected by Moaviyas sunnat and the reason is their 'hatred' of Iran.

Perhaps the 'malangs' should search in their hearts and clearly think whose sunnat they are following not allowng their 'blind hatred' of Iran to contaminate their minds.

Ya Ali Madad

Well congratulations to me for living in Uthopia! God Bless Uthopia! We have such a beautiful community of “malangs”, that it brings joyous tears to the eye. Not only do we get to invite high calibre speakers to our weekly gatherings (where of course the malangs go round and round in circles with drums in their hands chanting blasphemous lanats away and then after the ritual sitting down quietly and humming “Ali da malang main tay Ali daaa, Ali da Malang main tay Ali da….Haq haq haq haq!”), but we also have youngsters who let the non-Urdu and non-English speakers know of when these events are taking place (ie if they found out from an internet source)! And oh yeah, not forgetting that the malangs are also following mauwiya‘s (LA) sunnat by sending lanat upon mauwiya and his true companions.

It’s so sad knowing that in the real world, you guys don’t get such personalities..like myself and certain others.. The “malangs”.

Now..coming back to the ACTUAL reality of things. Yet again, I’ll take the responsibility of trying to be logical even though my self-control speaks against it (as you can tell from the paragraph above).

So what were you saying again? Most of the stuff that you’ve said makes no sense.

Oh yeah, the responsibility of spreading the truth as far and wide as possible is totally agreed upon. That’s why as I stated before we are always stating the truth in our mosques, whether the other sect likes it or not.

Earth to you, True Sunni, but everyone doesn’t live in a hole under the ground like you do. It is VERY much possible for mosques to be flowing with people throughout the year. It’s sad to know that you think it’s only a myth and not possible.

I still don’t understand how you’re stating that shia’s are adapting to muawiya’s (LA) traits. It utterly and sincerely makes no sense to me. You fail to make any sense. I don’t know if you understand when I say that. It’s like as if I have to repeat myself over and over again, since you fail to understand. Have I made myself clear enough? I’m serious.

But let me try once again. No we do not follow the sunnat of Mauwiya(LA). We always have a big crowd come to the mosque when it’s a Wiladat of an Imam(as), our Holy Prophet Mohammed(as) etc, or when it’s Eid-e-Mubahala, Eid-e-Zahra or Eid-e-Ghadeer or any other events that I’ve mentioned earlier in the other post. And Alhumdulillah, we talk straight forward about things and don’t try to dodge around ideas.

We do follow the teachings of the Ahle-Bayt and we do practice them as well. We’re not all perfect human beings, but we all try our best.

Not only have you failed to understand what BULB, Nastynas or myself have been trying to explain to you, but you also refuse to answer or even acknowledge certain questions.

But have no fear, since Zahra Naqvi is here! She shall repeat one certain question!

“So, True Sunni, if I put my mind into it, MAYBE I might understand why SUNNI’s don’t celebrate Eid-e-Mubahalah or Eid-e-Zahra(s), but Why don’t the sunni’s celebrate Eid-e-Ghadeer? Isn’t Islam their deen as well? Do they not care to celebrate the auspicious day of when Islam was completed by Allah(swt)!?

I mean forget about the event of Saqeefa and all that other jazz for now :)

Maula (as) Waris!!

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Ya Ali Madad

Well congratulations to me for living in Uthopia! God Bless Uthopia! We have such a beautiful community of “malangs”, that it brings joyous tears to the eye. Not only do we get to invite high calibre speakers to our weekly gatherings (where of course the malangs go round and round in circles with drums in their hands chanting blasphemous lanats away and then after the ritual sitting down quietly and humming “Ali da malang main tay Ali daaa, Ali da Malang main tay Ali da….Haq haq haq haq!”), but we also have youngsters who let the non-Urdu and non-English speakers know of when these events are taking place (ie if they found out from an internet source)! And oh yeah, not forgetting that the malangs are also following mauwiya‘s (LA) sunnat by sending lanat upon mauwiya and his true companions.

It’s so sad knowing that in the real world, you guys don’t get such personalities..like myself and certain others.. The “malangs”.

Now..coming back to the ACTUAL reality of things. Yet again, I’ll take the responsibility of trying to be logical even though my self-control speaks against it (as you can tell from the paragraph above).

So what were you saying again? Most of the stuff that you’ve said makes no sense.

Oh yeah, the responsibility of spreading the truth as far and wide as possible is totally agreed upon. That’s why as I stated before we are always stating the truth in our mosques, whether the other sect likes it or not.

Earth to you, True Sunni, but everyone doesn’t live in a hole under the ground like you do. It is VERY much possible for mosques to be flowing with people throughout the year. It’s sad to know that you think it’s only a myth and not possible.

I still don’t understand how you’re stating that shia’s are adapting to muawiya’s (LA) traits. It utterly and sincerely makes no sense to me. You fail to make any sense. I don’t know if you understand when I say that. It’s like as if I have to repeat myself over and over again, since you fail to understand. Have I made myself clear enough? I’m serious.

But let me try once again. No we do not follow the sunnat of Mauwiya(LA). We always have a big crowd come to the mosque when it’s a Wiladat of an Imam(as), our Holy Prophet Mohammed(as) etc, or when it’s Eid-e-Mubahala, Eid-e-Zahra or Eid-e-Ghadeer or any other events that I’ve mentioned earlier in the other post. And Alhumdulillah, we talk straight forward about things and don’t try to dodge around ideas.

We do follow the teachings of the Ahle-Bayt and we do practice them as well. We’re not all perfect human beings, but we all try our best.

Not only have you failed to understand what BULB, Nastynas or myself have been trying to explain to you, but you also refuse to answer or even acknowledge certain questions.

But have no fear, since Zahra Naqvi is here! She shall repeat one certain question!

“So, True Sunni, if I put my mind into it, MAYBE I might understand why SUNNI’s don’t celebrate Eid-e-Mubahalah or Eid-e-Zahra(s), but Why don’t the sunni’s celebrate Eid-e-Ghadeer? Isn’t Islam their deen as well? Do they not care to celebrate the auspicious day of when Islam was completed by Allah(swt)!?

I mean forget about the event of Saqeefa and all that other jazz for now :)

Maula (as) Waris!!

Look its quite simple really let me sum it up. I say be honest to whose sunnat you are following.

If you wish to hide the truth and follow Moaviyas Sunnat at least be honest about it.

If you wish to follow the sunnat of your Hindu forebears /fellow land mass peple at least be honest about it.

By being honest about whose sunnat you follow you will probably find a lot more acceptance.

Instead you try and dress up your practices in pseudo-religious mumbo jumbo in order to confuse the masses.

Beacuse you cannot answer simple questions about seperation of religion and politics and aknowledging whose sunnat you follow you try and confuse the issue by talking about Rid-Mubahila. What has Eid-e-Mubahila to do with seperation of Politiics nd religion.

My view is simple you should follow the sunnat of The Holy Prophet (pbuhahp) and the Ahlul-Bait and not the sunnat of Moaviya.

Politics and religion should not be seperated . The Holy Prophet (pbuhahp) never did it. The Ahlul-bait never did it . What gives you the right or arrogance to support this action.

We know Moaviya seperated religion from politics. So I say again desist from following Moayiyas sunnat. Or if you do at least have the courage and call yourself Shia-e-Moaviya not Shia-e-Ali

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Look its quite simple really let me sum it up. I say be honest to whose sunnat you are following.

If you wish to hide the truth and follow Moaviyas Sunnat at least be honest about it.

If you wish to follow the sunnat of your Hindu forebears /fellow land mass peple at least be honest about it.

By being honest about whose sunnat you follow you will probably find a lot more acceptance.

Instead you try and dress up your practices in pseudo-religious mumbo jumbo in order to confuse the masses.

Beacuse you cannot answer simple questions about seperation of religion and politics and aknowledging whose sunnat you follow you try and confuse the issue by talking about Rid-Mubahila. What has Eid-e-Mubahila to do with seperation of Politiics nd religion.

My view is simple you should follow the sunnat of The Holy Prophet (pbuhahp) and the Ahlul-Bait and not the sunnat of Moaviya.

Politics and religion should not be seperated . The Holy Prophet (pbuhahp) never did it. The Ahlul-bait never did it . What gives you the right or arrogance to support this action.

We know Moaviya seperated religion from politics. So I say again desist from following Moayiyas sunnat. Or if you do at least have the courage and call yourself Shia-e-Moaviya not Shia-e-Ali

Salams,

True_sunni,

from my previous discussion with yourself I see you are equally ignorant with every discussion and every person. Not that I am agreeing or disagreeing with anything you stated but just due to the fact that you are not open to reason and will never admit when you are wrong.

The issue was about J A Kazmi's allegations about who are CIA members whilst he recites Majalis along with many of his other fitna mongering statements. Let us accept your notion momenterily that talking about CIA agents is indeed important enough to stop discussin fazail e Ahlul Bait (as) on the Mimber E Rasool (Saws), doesn't your argument loose ground after the 6000th time he gives that contervertial speech during Majlis?

You went waaaay off and started talking about politics and Islam and when the sister replied in her post why we have 5 Eids when you mentioned 2 then you ask HER why she is talking about Eid E Mubahila? Subhanallah brother may if your perseverance was as strong in other areas you may get somewhere in life.

If it really was THAT important an issue then does no other Maullana, Alim Scholar, Mujtahid, Ayotullah or Marja knows about or talk about this issue? Did JA Kazmi have some kind of divine intervention?

If you are saying that politics and Islam are indeed as you suggest 'one' then why does our role model 'Iran' have a president? Sure if your idea was as flawless as you are implying then there would be no need for Ahmadinajed right?

Ya Ali (sa) Madad.

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Salams,

True_sunni,

from my previous discussion with yourself I see you are equally ignorant with every discussion and every person. Not that I am agreeing or disagreeing with anything you stated but just due to the fact that you are not open to reason and will never admit when you are wrong.

The issue was about J A Kazmi's allegations about who are CIA members whilst he recites Majalis along with many of his other fitna mongering statements. Let us accept your notion momenterily that talking about CIA agents is indeed important enough to stop discussin fazail e Ahlul Bait (as) on the Mimber E Rasool (Saws), doesn't your argument loose ground after the 6000th time he gives that contervertial speech during Majlis?

You went waaaay off and started talking about politics and Islam and when the sister replied in her post why we have 5 Eids when you mentioned 2 then you ask HER why she is talking about Eid E Mubahila? Subhanallah brother may if your perseverance was as strong in other areas you may get somewhere in life.

If it really was THAT important an issue then does no other Maullana, Alim Scholar, Mujtahid, Ayotullah or Marja knows about or talk about this issue? Did JA Kazmi have some kind of divine intervention?

If you are saying that politics and Islam are indeed as you suggest 'one' then why does our role model 'Iran' have a president? Sure if your idea was as flawless as you are implying then there would be no need for Ahmadinajed right?

Ya Ali (sa) Madad.

Again in your desire to prevent discussion of politics you try and justify it by saying it is not politics you are against per se but you wish to focus the attention on fazail and masail.

What better to prevent discussion of politics. You set up the argument that what you wish is discussion to Fazail and masail and thus you have no time for politics. This is an old trick of smoke and mirrors. Again a old trick of Moaviyas.

This is an old principle that you adhere to when you wish to hide the truth you raise the 'religious element' which on the surface appears to reasonable but prevents discussion of real issues.

May I draw your attention to Jang Siffeen when Moaviya fought Hz Ali (as). Before he could lose the battle he raised copies of the Quaaran on spears and said let us arbitrate and hav the Quaran between us. This was quite clearl a ruse but a lot of people fell for it

Similarly when the anti-politics people wish to prevent the discussion of politics you raie the fazail and masial of The ahlul-bait. Saying you cannot discuss them together.

So as i said before if you wish to follow the sunnat of Moaviya at least be honest about it.

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Again in your desire to prevent discussion of politics you try and justify it by saying it is not politics you are against per se but you wish to focus the attention on fazail and masail.

What better to prevent discussion of politics. You set up the argument that what you wish is discussion to Fazail and masail and thus you have no time for politics. This is an old trick of smoke and mirrors. Again a old trick of Moaviyas.

This is an old principle that you adhere to when you wish to hide the truth you raise the 'religious element' which on the surface appears to reasonable but prevents discussion of real issues.

May I draw your attention to Jang Siffeen when Moaviya fought Hz Ali (as). Before he could lose the battle he raised copies of the Quaaran on spears and said let us arbitrate and hav the Quaran between us. This was quite clearl a ruse but a lot of people fell for it

Similarly when the anti-politics people wish to prevent the discussion of politics you raie the fazail and masial of The ahlul-bait. Saying you cannot discuss them together.

So as i said before if you wish to follow the sunnat of Moaviya at least be honest about it.

It humours me to see you resort to personal insults when you can no longer provide a valid argument. Bear in mind YOU are the one who has the confusing name. We are simply Shia of Amir al Mo'mineed (as) and it is YOU who wishes to add the Ahlul Sunna aspect so who is actually misguided and who is following the sunah of muawiya I will let others decide.

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

ya guyz...at least be honest abt it!

Ok salman bhoj umar!

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Politics and religion should not be seperated . The Holy Prophet (pbuhahp) never did it. The Ahlul-bait never did it . What gives you the right or arrogance to support this action.

We know Moaviya seperated religion from politics. So I say again desist from following Moayiyas sunnat. Or if you do at least have the courage and call yourself Shia-e-Moaviya not Shia-e-Ali

You are deliberately subverting the issue by being far too vague. Define what politics and religion mean to you, then we can proceed with this discussion.

Until then, it is fairly clear that the Fazail of Ahlul Bait contain everything including religion, politics, social issues, matters within the home, youth issues - the list is endless.

What you are basically doing is provoking people by labelling them as following Muawiya's sunnat. Muawiya's sunnat was to eliminate the followers of Ahlul Bait in such a way that no one could point the finger at him. He spread propoganda against Ahlul Bait in Shaam in order to make people their enemies, so recounting the Fazail is in reality OPPOSING Muawiya's practise.

As for separating Muawiya's politics (which is what is in operation at this moment in time around the world) from religion, that is exactly what Imam Hasan did by signing the peace treaty. He made sure that people knew that Islam was free from Muawiya's style of rule by brilliantly trapping him into a treaty. As he broke all the conditions, history can judge him for his reality.

Again in your desire to prevent discussion of politics you try and justify it by saying it is not politics you are against per se but you wish to focus the attention on fazail and masail.

What better to prevent discussion of politics. You set up the argument that what you wish is discussion to Fazail and masail and thus you have no time for politics. This is an old trick of smoke and mirrors. Again a old trick of Moaviyas.

This is an old principle that you adhere to when you wish to hide the truth you raise the 'religious element' which on the surface appears to reasonable but prevents discussion of real issues.

May I draw your attention to Jang Siffeen when Moaviya fought Hz Ali (as). Before he could lose the battle he raised copies of the Quaaran on spears and said let us arbitrate and hav the Quaran between us. This was quite clearl a ruse but a lot of people fell for it

Similarly when the anti-politics people wish to prevent the discussion of politics you raie the fazail and masial of The ahlul-bait. Saying you cannot discuss them together.

So as i said before if you wish to follow the sunnat of Moaviya at least be honest about it.

Again you are being dishonest and then accusing other of being liars, how ironic.

Tell me, which kind of politics should be discussed in the majalis? That Iran is awesome? What else? That Palestinians are dying?

Come on, stop beating around the bush, and bring some substance to the table.

Edited by Socrates

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