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[Closed/Review]Jan Ali Kazmi

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my brother, u see 100s of molvis out there.. all spreading message of Islam without causing trouble and they all have hardly any haters at all... JAK speads the message of islam but also insults many followers of Islam (Eg: Malangs) he has no right at all 2 say stuff like people shouldnt wear karey, people shouldnt take out shabbis.. if it wasnt for that stuff hed be an ite Molvi... but u tell me if his such a big scholar shouldnt he have common sense not to start fights, arguements and issues on mimbar??

For real i heard one of his majalises from back in the 90s, he was ite then coz he never sed stuff like he does now.. and iv also heard his son, his son doesnt talk about the whole malang business and his famous all over Europe.. since his started hating on malangs, thats whats got him all these haters.. and peopel think its okay for him to say that stuff on a mimbar? he is no1 2 say anything about any1... like my brother MDM has said, wheres his proof of education, who was he taught under and when?????????

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Where is your proof of education to show you can humiliate him and degrade him, surely for you to say hes not a scholar, you have to be a scholar, or atleast be educated to some level, yourself??

He does not offend you, but some of the culture and acts you call religion, he tells us why things are wrong, why not research what he says and make your opinion, rather than cursing him because he doesnt follow your way of 'life'

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Where is your proof of education to show you can humiliate him and degrade him, surely for you to say hes not a scholar, you have to be a scholar, or atleast be educated to some level, yourself??

He does not offend you, but some of the culture and acts you call religion, he tells us why things are wrong, why not research what he says and make your opinion, rather than cursing him because he doesnt follow your way of 'life'

yeah and im a zakir-e-ahlulbayt... Zikar of ahlulbayt is no lower than the tilawat of the Quran... thats enough for me to say when i see some1 saying wrong stuff on mimbar

His meant to be a zakir... then y doesnt he act like one and recite fazail, masaib and teach Islam.. instead of badmouthing followers of ahlulbayt on the mimbar of ahlulbayt?...

and this education thing.. my type of zakiri is reading fazail and masaib which Love of ahlulbayt is needed... for the type of zikar his doing (causing trouble and making huge statements regarding lovers of ahlulbayt) some sort of education is needed and some sort of solid backround as a QUALFIED scholar is needed for it to even be taken into consideration

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^^^ because my brother nobody is giving me his number lol.. people tried to talk to him tooting but he just told em 2 sit down :S

if only Molana Fazil Alvi Saab was alive today... hed sort all the JAK shias out just like he does the DHAKKU shias

but honestly bro.. if your serious about this.. how about you and i, organise an event.. you call ur molvi and malangs will call ours.. and well have a debate.. what do u say bro? itll take abit of time to prepare but it can be done

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I would'nt waste my effort and time organising it, itl end up a joke, like most of the events are, where the majorty of malangs are screaming and shouting, ive yet to see a place, which is populated by some malangs, that runs in an orderly, calm, peaceful and civilised way.

Why do you think he doesnt give his number out? because your people are intent on cursing him and abusing him, even going to lengths of threatening him, just the way they did to the moulana in manchester

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but my brother, like ive said ther are 100s of molvis here.. and only mr JAK stands out.. he gets cussed and abused because of the stuff he says.. i gotta admit SOME of this stuff he said is valid.. but then aain stuff he says like dont wear karey and dont do zanjeer.. he is absolutly NOBODY to make statements like that.. that is why he is hated thats why he gets shouted at... other shias only follow him coz his been on TV.

anyway my brother hope i have not offended you in any way

inshallah maula will forgiv us all for our sins

Ya Ali Madad

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He has never said do not do it, but has said it is better to not do it due to the society that we live in, im sure all moral people understand that we have to follow the norm of society to be liked, and if you deviate from this norm (ie do something which is seen as weird or wrong) then people will begin hating you even more, and hes trying to say that zanjeer is not appropriate within this society, so its best to avoid it, its the same view as the mujtahids, but what does that matter to you people eh?

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that is why zanjeer zani is done INSIDE our imambargahs

as for jaloos... its okay for YOU people to do jaloos on Gaza or Iraq or Iran or whatever.. but when its done for AHlulbayt u have a problem??

and mujtahids? dont even get me started... like i said in another post.. at the end of their namaz they pray that their namaz is kabool... if they dunno whether their own ibadat is kabool.. they have no right to tell any1 whether their ibadat and azadari is

my brother we do live in a society where we are the minority.. and we should keep parda whilst doing zanjeer zani... but right now the people of this society havnt complained as much as JAK shias have

Edited by tauqeer786x

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Maybe you are ignorant to the people talking, and maybe you hear us because you are within us, and we want change. And noone wants to stop the juloos, we want to stop the beating of bare chests in the middle of streets, outside houses, all you are doing is turning people way. A juloos is supposed to educate why we are opposing yazid, so why dont we educate through a peacuful procession?

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a jaloos is to educate? where does it say that.. show me Quran reference or a Hadith dat says thats the purpose of a jaloos

u want to educate people? educate who exactly? people of england.. people of england dont understand urdu or punjabi and believe me even teens of england prefer majalis in urdu or punjabi

The jalooses that are held on 10th muharam... they are the Janaza of Imam Hussain (as).. and we go along mourning with it and doing matam as it shows love.. jaloos is not to educate at all.. if people need education tell em to read books or go to the masjid

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Salam Alaikum

I think people are misinterpreting the message given by JAK, be that by misunderstanding him or by pure ignorance.

My due respect to Syed JAK, but people are not misinterpreting him, he is misinterpreting the people, due to his own ignorance or arrogance as to how to best do tableegh. People will not change their way of Azadari just because of his majalis. All that will happen is that he will cause more division, and he is an embarrassment for us who believe and trust in Ulama, and an excuse for those who are against Ulama to deepen the discord and division.

In respect of the Jaloos, it has many functions. One function is to educate, but this practically is very limited. The other function is for us to show our grief to the world and to show our allegiance to Imam Hussain [a] and Imam-e-Asr [a]. Blood-letting Matam should be done indoors, but there is absolutely no need to call it a sunnah of Yazeed. What worst insult can there be for the Azadar?

His actions in Idara-e-Jafariyyah, London, shows that unless he changes his ways and stop over-acting, his services are not necessary if not detrimental.

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I would'nt waste my effort and time organising it, itl end up a joke, like most of the events are, where the majorty of malangs are screaming and shouting, ive yet to see a place, which is populated by some malangs, that runs in an orderly, calm, peaceful and civilised way.

come to manchester, as my guest. ill take you to the thursday dua kumayl and dars, ill take you to jumma khutbah, sit with me during the muharram majalis. the mallangs are never the instigators of any panga...its always the other people doing dodgy things, and mallangs fear none but the anger of bibi paak so speak out openly against wrongdoings no matter who, and people cant handle that because you wouldnt believe the sort of things those who most hate mallangs get up to - like the treasurer stealing from the bellot street zakat for a perfect point.

mallangs arent bad people, its just that the people hating them have a better PR and bull[Edited Out] propaganda system. mallangs dont care about izzat or worldy opinions, we are nothing but slaves of the slaves of the slaves of bibi paak, we struggle our whole lives to earn a single dua from her blessed lips.

Why do you think he doesnt give his number out? because your people are intent on cursing him and abusing him, even going to lengths of threatening him, just the way they did to the moulana in manchester

er...what maulana would that be exactly? and when?

i have his number now. i propose the following:

any mallangs, or people who disagree with him, contact me by PM, we will pool our resources and daleel and form a discussion group. i will contact him, and request his email. we will have an email discussion, and i will post all the screencaps here on the thinkers forum sc for the world to see.

im a bit busy at the moment (shaam diya tayaariyan inshallah) but definately over the next month or so inshallah i suggest we finish this [Edited Out].

if only Molana Fazil Alvi Saab was alive today... hed sort all the JAK shias out just like he does the DHAKKU shias

ya shaheed...aap ko mera salam.

he muttered the immortal words

"dil kay papholay jall uthay seeneh seh daag se, iss gharr ko aag lag ghaiy ghar ke charaag se"

indeed...the man spoke the truth. those we should be proud of have burnt our house down.

may he rest in peace, in the company of those he spent his life in devotion to, and died for his love of.

ameen.

Edited by maula dha mallang

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brother the question isnt whether hes spent time in qom or not, its what he studied, who under, for how long and IS HE QUALIFIED AND GRADUATED.

he claims he is a scholar. its up 2 him to prove it. until then, he is a glorified zakir.

InshAllah when you speak to him, lets see what comes out of that :)

my brother, u see 100s of molvis out there.. all spreading message of Islam without causing trouble and they all have hardly any haters at all... JAK speads the message of islam but also insults many followers of Islam (Eg: Malangs) he has no right at all 2 say stuff like people shouldnt wear karey, people shouldnt take out shabbis.. if it wasnt for that stuff hed be an ite Molvi... but u tell me if his such a big scholar shouldnt he have common sense not to start fights, arguements and issues on mimbar??

Dear bro, that is an absolute joke. You know full well that he is not agains karey, he is not against shabis or alams or julus.

With karey he said very simply that it is not the sunnah of our Imams so it should not be worn with that intention, hoever, if you are wearing it to remind yourself of the Imam and the pains that they went through, then you can wear it.

Again with shabis he defended alams, taboots and shabis is all his majlis so I have got no idea what you are talking about.

Agreed, he should revise his methods.

For real i heard one of his majalises from back in the 90s, he was ite then coz he never sed stuff like he does now.. and iv also heard his son, his son doesnt talk about the whole malang business and his famous all over Europe.. since his started hating on malangs, thats whats got him all these haters.. and peopel think its okay for him to say that stuff on a mimbar? he is no1 2 say anything about any1... like my brother MDM has said, wheres his proof of education, who was he taught under and when?????????

MDM is finding out soon inshAllah. What effort have you made to find out?

^^^ because my brother nobody is giving me his number lol.. people tried to talk to him tooting but he just told em 2 sit down :S

Thats a lie. Many people have sat down and spoken with him and many people have phoned him. Phone Idara and ask for his contact.

but my brother, like ive said ther are 100s of molvis here.. and only mr JAK stands out.. he gets cussed and abused because of the stuff he says.. i gotta admit SOME of this stuff he said is valid.. but then aain stuff he says like dont wear karey and dont do zanjeer.. he is absolutly NOBODY to make statements like that.. that is why he is hated thats why he gets shouted at... other shias only follow him coz his been on TV.

YAWN, he did not say dont wear karey. You have no right to say he is nobody untill you prove he has not been qualified. Dont get me wrong, you could be right, but have some proof. You will be mroe credible.

that is why zanjeer zani is done INSIDE our imambargahs

as for jaloos... its okay for YOU people to do jaloos on Gaza or Iraq or Iran or whatever.. but when its done for AHlulbayt u have a problem??

Not to mention where we pray namaz ;) He is not against juloos. All he said was that the act of julus itself is mubab but the intention behind it is what makes t mustahab. You are perfect proof why this thread should be closed. We are just repeating ourselves. Read before posting.

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i believe the words he used for karay is "yeh kya jahaliyat hai", but dont hold me to that cos i didnt hear it first hand. the first i heard was allama shabeul hassan in hussainia bradford a few years ago who "refuted" JAK in his muharram majalises.

if you guys can wait till after chelum, we will do this properly. lets organise ourselves yeah?

Edited by maula dha mallang

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Salaams

In regards with the kara as far as I have heard he said that it is not the sunnah of the Imam wearing the Kara and that those who do wear kara are there because some people who go on the mimbar have a lack of knowledge where as there are hundreds of maulana's in Qum and Mashad who have loads of knowledge but dont get given a chance. As far as I see from this he is concentrating on Iran and on how great they are whilst putting others down.

In regards with Juloos. He said that juloos is muba and he did not say that it only becomes mustahab when done with the right intention. He said it as one phrase and moved on. I was sitting in the majlis and remember this.

Wassalaam

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Where is your proof of education to show you can humiliate him and degrade him, surely for you to say hes not a scholar, you have to be a scholar, or atleast be educated to some level, yourself??

He does not offend you, but some of the culture and acts you call religion, he tells us why things are wrong, why not research what he says and make your opinion, rather than cursing him because he doesnt follow your way of 'life'

Salams,

You need to prove you education to humiiate someone? Why would we want to humiliate anyone? I have seen J A Kazmi doing that to the malangs but no one else. Then you wonder why there are so much negative emotions against him.

By 'some of the acts we call religion' you mean Azadari right?

What makes you think the Azadar/Matami do not research thier acts? I do not understnd why you have such a dismissive attitude towards people who have differing views to yours and J A Kazmi. Where is YOUR research to forbid these acts?

We have discussed the 'image' argument and saddly, that does not hold much weight as there are much bigger issues to Shia Islam then Azadari and no one rushes to stop them. The word 'double standards' springs to mind.

May Maula (as) punish all those who oppose permissable forms of Azadari.

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

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Salam Alaikum

My due respect to Syed JAK, but people are not misinterpreting him, he is misinterpreting the people, due to his own ignorance or arrogance as to how to best do tableegh. People will not change their way of Azadari just because of his majalis. All that will happen is that he will cause more division, and he is an embarrassment for us who believe and trust in Ulama, and an excuse for those who are against Ulama to deepen the discord and division.

In respect of the Jaloos, it has many functions. One function is to educate, but this practically is very limited. The other function is for us to show our grief to the world and to show our allegiance to Imam Hussain [a] and Imam-e-Asr [a]. Blood-letting Matam should be done indoors, but there is absolutely no need to call it a sunnah of Yazeed. What worst insult can there be for the Azadar?

His actions in Idara-e-Jafariyyah, London, shows that unless he changes his ways and stop over-acting, his services are not necessary if not detrimental.

AHSANT!

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Salam Dear bros/sis,

I agree with you on pretty much everything there. Not that I agree with his stance on julus but could his reasoning be that the actual act is mubah but it is the intention which makes it mustahab?

Again I also agree with the fact that azadari does not equal tabligh. It can be used to bring people closer but that is not the main purpose of azadari. However, if it is taking people away then for the sake of preserving the Azadari, we should change how we express it. As I said if certain non obligatory rituals are giving Islam a bad name then we should let go of them but if someone tries to stop Azadari as a whole then as I said I would be the first one to die to save it. Imam Khomieni and Imam Khamenei stress the importance of Azadari so unbelievably much. They never say stop azadari, they just say stop those acts which are taking people away. Which I believe is a respectable viewpoint.

Dear bro,

I am not saying we should do stuff to appease others, all I am saying is that we should not do those things which are turning people away from the message of Imam Hussain. I think julus is one of the most effective forms of azadari and in this day and place, because we can express our grief and love for Imam Hussain whilst not turning people against his message, we should do everything in our power to go to all our juluses and make them as effective as we can to fulfill all the purposes.

I did not mean Zanjeer matam only I meant any non obligatory act we perform which turns people away from our religion, any non obligatory act which causes the message of the purified AhlulBayt to be ridiculed.

Regarding unity, all it means is that we should get them closer to us through debates discussions etc as long as we do not compramise our obligations. When they are closer then we can merk them :P It is stressed with our sunni brothers because we need to present a united from of Islam against others and right now we dont have that.

When people see zanjir and you tell them it is our expression of mourning and love for Imam Hussain they wont say oh thats cool now it looks less wrong. However when you explain to people that prostration on a turbah is because we believe we have to do it on something natural and the fact that if you are worshipping an idol u bow down before it not on top of it, they will say oh yes that makes more sense. I believe you can not compare the two. Secondly it is written all over in all our hadith books that prostration on something natural is prety much wajib whilst the same can not be said for zanjeer. We can never compramise the act of prostration on anything natural because we will never compramise on our obligations the same way we should never let anyone stop azadari and we should preserve no matter what happens.

Sorry if I insulted you dear bro or anyone in anything I said. I sincerely ask for your forgiveness. I hope all is cool between us.

Again I would say I respect those who do zanjeer and the amount of passion, love and greif for Imam Hussain they put into it is admirable. However, if it is not an obligatory act, for the sake of preserving Imam Hussains message, for the sake of preserving Azadari, we shoult let go of it and adopt to the day and age so people are brought clsoer to Imam Hussain message and not further away.

I do not know about other but the reason why I emphasise donating blood on that day is simply because so much of it goes down the drain. Imagine how many peoples life you could save, if you save one persons life its as if you have saved the whole of humanity. What would make Allah more happy, what would make our beloved Imams more happy, what would make Bibi Fatimah s.a more happy?

Regarding the last post, firstly Tabara is not just cursing the baddies, it is disassociating yoursself from the baddies so do not limit Tabara to certain acts. Secondly the reason why it should not be done in an imam bargah because that Imam bargah, especially Idara, has a lot of sunis that come to it. Unles you are positively sure that there are no sunnis you should refrain from cursin thier leaders. Because others wise they will just go away hating shias and god forbid even cursing our Imams.

Brothers and sisters please do forgive me if I have offended anyoen in anyway as it is sincerely not my intention to do so. From now on I wish to normalize the debate and promise no more emotions from side. :)

Ya Ali Madad

It’s really disturbing and disgusting to know that such things are happening within our own Shia community. It’s lack of knowledge and too much pride which makes one blind to the truth.

And it saddens me to see that people within our own community are so confused, and if some of us are confused now, then God help our future generations to come.

When one thinks of going to a Majlis, automatically a person (a sane one anyways) is grateful to know that they’re going to hear Fazail-e-Ahle-Bayth, Do Tawallah and give tabarra, Give pursa to the masoomeen (a.s.), feel the lamentation from the heart, mind and soul..and have hope when they walk out the Imambargha.

Now if one thinks that it’s actually NORMAL to hear the politics of this world (or talk about irrelevant things that don‘t need to be mentioned during a majlis), then in my matter of factual opinion, those people….All I can say is, may Maula (a.s.) help them.

A Majlis’s atmosphere should be different than the one that’s become of today in some Idaras. I mean if one’s a lover of the Ahle-Bayth, then it should be faithfully done.

If people want to hear about the current situations of certain propagandas, rumors, news, politics, “what he said he said”, CIA informants, ‘unity’ between us Muslims (although, unity between momins looks like a more important subject to touch on first)….But if people want to hear anything that’s irrelevant to Majlis-e-Hussain (a.s.)… Then the community mosque should hold discussion days with the maulana, a Q&A session. And the people who really want to know of those things, then they’ll show up.

In Shia Islam, we’re all for Haq. If anyone disagrees with that, then I’m sorry to see that you’re a shia and don’t know what Haq is after Imam Hussain’s (a.s.) sacrifice at Karbala. It was a fight against oppression and even though the lanti tyrant had martyred our mazloom Imam (a.s.) and his family and companions, The logical mind knows which side Haq was on and which side Zulm was at. In Ziyarat-e-ashura we curse the the lantees by name. We curse Ziyaad (LA) and the family of Marwaan, we curse the tribe of Ummayyah, one and all, altogether, we curse Marjaanah (LA), we curse Umar son of Saad (LA), we curse Shimr (LA). We curse their generations till the day of Judgment and if I missed out any lantees name, may Allah forgive me. On ashura, there’s an amal that All of us Shia’s do, by saying Allahumala’an qatalatal Husain we awlaadihee wa as’haabihee ( if you don’t then I’m sorry, you’re certainly a confused being).

Now that we’ve gotten that cleared since hopefully EVERY shia “jahil malang or not malang (liberal supposedly)’ recites Ziyarat-e-ashura, then I can’t see why one wouldn’t curse those lantees by name who were the cause of Bibi Fatima Zahra’s (a.s.) shahadat and turmoil, the people involved in the event of Saqeefa, the people who Bibi Fatima Zahra (a.s.) didn’t speak to, the people who denied to give the writing tool to the Holy Prophet (a.s.) when he asked for one and nauz bil’ah called our Holy Prophet (a.s) delirious astaghfirullah! Maybe I’m the one “malang” who’s thinking inside the box, but I’d rather be known as a jahil malang, than a “muslim” like abu sufyan.

I’ve watched a clip of where Jan Ali Kazmi blatantly pointed out that Zanjeer Zani is tool that Shia’s use to attract attention to themselves…that Shia’s use Zanjeer zani or Qama Zani as politics, a way to lure non-muslims in?

Now as a bystander, I doubt a non-muslim would want to be “lured” into something where you see a bunch of people hitting themselves. It looks more or less like as if it’s crazy people doing God knows what!

I don’t even know where this whole ‘luring’ people in idea came from or when it started!!! As far as shia FAITH is concerned, Zanjeer Zani, Qama Zani or matam are NOT done to show someone else, but offered as a condolence to masomeen (a.s), it’s done out of grief and lamentation from the heart if one feels the sorrow after hearing the tragedies which came upon our Imams (a.s.). If you don’t feel the sorrow, don’t do it then init! What’s with stopping others from doing it. “Liberal” eh? Just like how Hazrat Owais Karni had struck out all teeth upon hearing that the Holy Prophet’s (a.s.) one tooth got shaheed! And Upon seeing Imam Hussain’s (a.s.) beheaded body, bibi Zainab ( a.s) struck her head against a wooden saddle, which made her head bleed in the presence of Imam Zainul-abideen (a.s.)! When a true momin does Zanjeer Zani, Qama Zani or matam, it’s done because one feels the pain after hearing of what happened! There is NO such thing as doing any of those to attract people towards the Shia. Trust me, there are other ways that one can attract attention. It would be nice if people used common sense. And if there ARE people out there in the world who do Zanjeer, Qama or matam out of the sole reason of attracting attention, then they don’t understand nor feel the sorrow which one is supposed to feel when you hear about Hazrat Ali Asghar’s (a.s) shahadat, or about Shazada Qasim’s (a.s) shahadat or about any of the shahadats that took place in the tragedy of Karbala!

Nothing’s wrong with donating blood, that’s actually really good. But one can donate any time they want to donate. Zanjeer, Qama, or matam are done from sorrow and grief, their whole purpose is to give pursa to the masomeen (a.s.).

And speaking about how hard it is for some of our shia brothers and sisters to understand Zanjeer/Qama, I’m proud to say I have amazing white friends who understand the real meaning of our sorrow and accept our way of lamenting! They don’t get all scared or disgusted etc, it actually amazes them how much love shias have for the Ahle bayth and how shias want to give their all in their (a.s.) love.

We’re only humans, if we understood the depth of this sorrow, we’d either die of the shock of what’s happened, or just be mentally numb after hearing such tragedies. To witness such a tragedy, would have been enough to actually break the heart in trillion pieces. All we can do as humans, right now in today’s world is try to feel the sorrow. At times, one feels like it’s not enough. And now we have these Mullah’s on about how it’s not right to do Zanjeer or Qama… what’s next? Azadari is haram altogether!? Or wait, I think that’s already another case that’s been opened! Disappointing.

If the shia’s don’t teach their ACTUAL teachings in their OWN idara’s, then WHERE will they preach them? In a sunni/wahabi mosque? Today’s youngsters are the future generation, they are the voice of tomorrow. If they get confused right now, then the future is bleak my fellow brothers and sisters.

Lol Why are shia’s shia then? Seeing that it’s come to saying that there are “jahil malang” shia’s and then “liberal” shias. Becoming more ’civilized” and in the next 50 years, let’s just all sit down and talk about Karbala like a story from the books, so what if it’s sad and all those things happened 1400 years ago, why go crazy over it to an extent in today’s world!? Hello! It’s 2009! Get with the times! Might as well leave everything else that shia’s believe in as well and start following what 95% of the Muslims already follow. Everyone to their own graves eh!

It’s disappointing.

There’s so much to say and many facts need to be brought to light (within our own community). I’m just voicing my thoughts.

Anyways if anyone has Jan Ali Kazmi’s number where he can be reached at to answer certain questions, it would be appreciated.

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Anyways if anyone has Jan Ali Kazmi’s number where he can be reached at to answer certain questions, it would be appreciated.

theres alot of people on this forum that say they have his number or access to his number and keep sayin things like you should contact him yourself etc etc but no body who has this information is willing to give it. if somebody has it can you kindly private message it to me

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theres alot of people on this forum that say they have his number or access to his number and keep sayin things like you should contact him yourself etc etc but no body who has this information is willing to give it. if somebody has it can you kindly private message it to me

Easiest way is to phone Idara and ask.

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Same people who gave 'death threats' to Jan Ali are condemning the attack on Zameer Akhtar being the 'good ones'..

I do not really like Zameer Akhtar but I still believe he should not have been attacked the way he was...that was 'after' the incident when he was stopped from reading..

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Ya Ali Madad

Salam.

It’s really disturbing and disgusting to know that such things are happening within our own Shia community. It’s lack of knowledge and too much pride which makes one blind to the truth.

Agreed, ignorance breeds everything bad.

When one thinks of going to a Majlis, automatically a person (a sane one anyways) is grateful to know that they’re going to hear Fazail-e-Ahle-Bayth, Do Tawallah and give tabarra, Give pursa to the masoomeen (a.s.), feel the lamentation from the heart, mind and soul..and have hope when they walk out the Imambargha.

No one is against listening to the fazail of AhlulBayt a.s but to say that talking about other strands of knowledge inside islam has no place in a majalis, which may I remind you was, is and will always be the platform for gaining Islamic knowledge by our Masumeen, then I seriously think we need to realize and understand what the majalis of Imam Ali a.s were, what the majalis of Imam Sajjad a.s was and what the majalis of Bibi Zainab s.a was.

Going to the majalis itself is a great form of Tabara. Why? Because Tabara is disassociating yourself from the enemies of Islam. The enemies of Islam would never go to a majalis, therefore you just going there is dissasociation frm the enemy. And you dont GIVE tabara, that makes no sense, you practise Tabara. The rest, beautifully put.

Now if one thinks that it’s actually NORMAL to hear the politics of this world (or talk about irrelevant things that don‘t need to be mentioned during a majlis), then in my matter of factual opinion, those people….All I can say is, may Maula (a.s.) help them.

May Allah remind us all of the revolution brought about by the minbar of our Prophet, our beloved Aimmah and Bibi Zainab (May Allah be pleased with them all). If we think that politcs are not a part of Imam Hussains a.s message at Kerbela. Then May Maula a.s help us all.

If people want to hear about the current situations of certain propagandas, rumors, news, politics, “what he said he said”, CIA informants, ‘unity’ between us Muslims (although, unity between momins looks like a more important subject to touch on first)….But if people want to hear anything that’s irrelevant to Majlis-e-Hussain (a.s.)… Then the community mosque should hold discussion days with the maulana, a Q&A session. And the people who really want to know of those things, then they’ll show up.

Politics and current news of Shias in the world is very relevant to the Majlis of Imam Hussain as long as it is related back to his message in Kerbela. Rest I agree with.

Now that we’ve gotten that cleared since hopefully EVERY shia “jahil malang or not malang (liberal supposedly)’ recites Ziyarat-e-ashura, then I can’t see why one wouldn’t curse those lantees by name who were the cause of Bibi Fatima Zahra’s (a.s.) shahadat and turmoil, the people involved in the event of Saqeefa, the people who Bibi Fatima Zahra (a.s.) didn’t speak to, the people who denied to give the writing tool to the Holy Prophet (a.s.) when he asked for one and nauz bil’ah called our Holy Prophet (a.s) delirious astaghfirullah! Maybe I’m the one “malang” who’s thinking inside the box, but I’d rather be known as a jahil malang, than a “muslim” like abu sufyan.

Very good question. Why not? Are the people who are not cursing commiting haram? Why are they not cursing? They openly curse yazid and crew why dont they openly curse the others. Why do you think that is sis? Is it because they love the others? Think logically. Do you hate the others more because you curse and they hate them less because they dont. How do you know that after every namaz on thier tasbihs they dont send lanat to the others (the way our Imams taught us btw). Could it possibly be because us sending lanat (which is not wajib btw, Tabara is wajib), is bieng used as a weapon to kill our fellow brothers and sisters in Parachinar D.I Khan etc? Now people who do openly send lanat, they either know this is happening and dont give a hoot about thier brothers dying hence continue or they do not know and they need to be made aware of the situation there. Our shia brothers are bieng taken and cut up into parts and bieng sent back to thier families. Do people who send lanat know videos of them doing lanat is shown to these killers to motivate them to kill more shias. Ofcourse the people they follow are wrong and are cursed but you have to remember that the killers are bieng brainwashed cause at the end of the day, they have been brought up loving up thier leaders, ofcourse it will be easy to brainwash them, ofcourse it will be easy to motivate them to kill more shias, and thankfully for them, we are here to supply them with more motivation to kill shias. But obviously it is not us in our centres who are dying so why should we care. Lets keep on sending lanats and we might think about other mroe important forms of Tabara if by chance we are directly effected.

I’ve watched a clip of where Jan Ali Kazmi blatantly pointed out that Zanjeer Zani is tool that Shia’s use to attract attention to themselves…that Shia’s use Zanjeer zani or Qama Zani as politics, a way to lure non-muslims in?

Now as a bystander, I doubt a non-muslim would want to be “lured” into something where you see a bunch of people hitting themselves. It looks more or less like as if it’s crazy people doing God knows what!

That the whole point, it doesnt bring people closer to Imam Hussains a.s message it take them away at take the mic out of it. Therefore we should adopt other forms of Azadari which are much more reflective of Imam Hussains a.s message.

Just like how Hazrat Owais Karni had struck out all teeth upon hearing that the Holy Prophet’s (a.s.) one tooth got shaheed! And Upon seeing Imam Hussain’s (a.s.) beheaded body, bibi Zainab ( a.s) struck her head against a wooden saddle, which made her head bleed in the presence of Imam Zainul-abideen (a.s.)!

Can I just point out that these acts were not repeated every year. If the ones who felt the greatest sorrow did not repeat it then who are we to do it and then call it thier sunnah. They did it at the true hieght of love devotion and affection and they did not repeat it so are you telling me that you reach that level of devotion every year precisely as majalis finishes, matam is over, and the cover is laid. Are you telling me that Bibi Zainab felt less devotion then you did because she only did it once and you feel that devotion every single year?

When a true momin does Zanjeer Zani, Qama Zani or matam, it’s done because one feels the pain after hearing of what happened! There is NO such thing as doing any of those to attract people towards the Shia. Trust me, there are other ways that one can attract attention. It would be nice if people used common sense. And if there ARE people out there in the world who do Zanjeer, Qama or matam out of the sole reason of attracting attention, then they don’t understand nor feel the sorrow which one is supposed to feel when you hear about Hazrat Ali Asghar’s (a.s) shahadat, or about Shazada Qasim’s (a.s) shahadat or about any of the shahadats that took place in the tragedy of Karbala!

Agreed, i think we should all accpet the fact that we can not doubt the niyyat of a person. When they do it, thye do it for the reason they say they do it, to show love devotion etc.

Nothing’s wrong with donating blood, that’s actually really good. But one can donate any time they want to donate. Zanjeer, Qama, or matam are done from sorrow and grief, their whole purpose is to give pursa to the masomeen (a.s.).

The whole point is that your blood could be used to save the life of people yet you choose to lose it on these specific days.

And speaking about how hard it is for some of our shia brothers and sisters to understand Zanjeer/Qama, I’m proud to say I have amazing white friends who understand the real meaning of our sorrow and accept our way of lamenting! They don’t get all scared or disgusted etc, it actually amazes them how much love shias have for the Ahle bayth and how shias want to give their all in their (a.s.) love.

Alhamdulilah, that is true however no one can unfortunately compare that to the amount it is degrading the message of Imam Hussan a.s in the eyes of others. You might say oh bu why should we care we are not doing it for them. EVERY action you do will also be judged of how it was presented infront of others.

And now we have these Mullah’s on about how it’s not right to do Zanjeer or Qama… what’s next? Azadari is haram altogether!? Or wait, I think that’s already another case that’s been opened! Disappointing.

The funny thing is the mullahs who have spoken out against Zanjeer/Qama have been the biggest promoters and implementers of Azadari in the world these days. Unfortunately, for some people, Azadari means nothing more then blood letting so they start running around shouting AZADARI UNDER ATTACK. The True enemies of Azadari are those who dont understand it properly.

If the shia’s don’t teach their ACTUAL teachings in their OWN idara’s, then WHERE will they preach them? In a sunni/wahabi mosque? Today’s youngsters are the future generation, they are the voice of tomorrow. If they get confused right now, then the future is bleak my fellow brothers and sisters.

Right, so what are we suppose to teach them? That Tabara is sending lanats and Azadari is blood letting? Is that what Azadari and Tabara ACTUALLY are?

Lol Why are shia’s shia then? Seeing that it’s come to saying that there are “jahil malang” shia’s and then “liberal” shias. Becoming more ’civilized” and in the next 50 years, let’s just all sit down and talk about Karbala like a story from the books, so what if it’s sad and all those things happened 1400 years ago, why go crazy over it to an extent in today’s world!? Hello! It’s 2009! Get with the times! Might as well leave everything else that shia’s believe in as well and start following what 95% of the Muslims already follow. Everyone to their own graves eh!

Firstly, if Zanjeer/Qama is seen in good light again and is seen as not bieng derogatory to Imam Hussains a.s message in others eyes then bismillah we can start doing it. You do realize that the people who say dont do Zanjeer are someof the most CONSERVATIRE RADICAL EXTREME (whatever u wanna call it) shias around. So dont use the tag liberal.

Again for certain people Azadari is either blood letting or nothing. May Allah guide us all.

Wasalam.

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May Allah bless all the Ulma-e-Haq like Allama Hassan Zafar Naqvi (a.r), Allama John Ali Kazmi (a.r), Allama Aqeelul Gharvi (a.r) and many others and May Allah save our faith, our mission and our generation from Ulma-e-Soe and May Allah protect us from their fitnah

Ameen

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if they didnt chat cr@p.. they wouldnt get beats and threats.. simple

Following the Ahlulbayt is such a beautiful way of life, when i think of Ahlulbayt i get peace to my heart.. and to think of people like JAK causing trouble.. i can understand why extremists wana kill him

like i said early in the topic.. i would be happy to help arrange a event where JAk could answer questions, and have all the bodyguards present

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Salam.

Agreed, ignorance breeds everything bad.

No one is against listening to the fazail of AhlulBayt a.s but to say that talking about other strands of knowledge inside islam has no place in a majalis, which may I remind you was, is and will always be the platform for gaining Islamic knowledge by our Masumeen, then I seriously think we need to realize and understand what the majalis of Imam Ali a.s were, what the majalis of Imam Sajjad a.s was and what the majalis of Bibi Zainab s.a was.

Going to the majalis itself is a great form of Tabara. Why? Because Tabara is disassociating yourself from the enemies of Islam. The enemies of Islam would never go to a majalis, therefore you just going there is dissasociation frm the enemy. And you dont GIVE tabara, that makes no sense, you practise Tabara. The rest, beautifully put.

May Allah remind us all of the revolution brought about by the minbar of our Prophet, our beloved Aimmah and Bibi Zainab (May Allah be pleased with them all). If we think that politcs are not a part of Imam Hussains a.s message at Kerbela. Then May Maula a.s help us all.

Politics and current news of Shias in the world is very relevant to the Majlis of Imam Hussain as long as it is related back to his message in Kerbela. Rest I agree with.

Very good question. Why not? Are the people who are not cursing commiting haram? Why are they not cursing? They openly curse yazid and crew why dont they openly curse the others. Why do you think that is sis? Is it because they love the others? Think logically. Do you hate the others more because you curse and they hate them less because they dont. How do you know that after every namaz on thier tasbihs they dont send lanat to the others (the way our Imams taught us btw). Could it possibly be because us sending lanat (which is not wajib btw, Tabara is wajib), is bieng used as a weapon to kill our fellow brothers and sisters in Parachinar D.I Khan etc? Now people who do openly send lanat, they either know this is happening and dont give a hoot about thier brothers dying hence continue or they do not know and they need to be made aware of the situation there. Our shia brothers are bieng taken and cut up into parts and bieng sent back to thier families. Do people who send lanat know videos of them doing lanat is shown to these killers to motivate them to kill more shias. Ofcourse the people they follow are wrong and are cursed but you have to remember that the killers are bieng brainwashed cause at the end of the day, they have been brought up loving up thier leaders, ofcourse it will be easy to brainwash them, ofcourse it will be easy to motivate them to kill more shias, and thankfully for them, we are here to supply them with more motivation to kill shias. But obviously it is not us in our centres who are dying so why should we care. Lets keep on sending lanats and we might think about other mroe important forms of Tabara if by chance we are directly effected.

That the whole point, it doesnt bring people closer to Imam Hussains a.s message it take them away at take the mic out of it. Therefore we should adopt other forms of Azadari which are much more reflective of Imam Hussains a.s message.

Can I just point out that these acts were not repeated every year. If the ones who felt the greatest sorrow did not repeat it then who are we to do it and then call it thier sunnah. They did it at the true hieght of love devotion and affection and they did not repeat it so are you telling me that you reach that level of devotion every year precisely as majalis finishes, matam is over, and the cover is laid. Are you telling me that Bibi Zainab felt less devotion then you did because she only did it once and you feel that devotion every single year?

Agreed, i think we should all accpet the fact that we can not doubt the niyyat of a person. When they do it, thye do it for the reason they say they do it, to show love devotion etc.

The whole point is that your blood could be used to save the life of people yet you choose to lose it on these specific days.

Alhamdulilah, that is true however no one can unfortunately compare that to the amount it is degrading the message of Imam Hussan a.s in the eyes of others. You might say oh bu why should we care we are not doing it for them. EVERY action you do will also be judged of how it was presented infront of others.

The funny thing is the mullahs who have spoken out against Zanjeer/Qama have been the biggest promoters and implementers of Azadari in the world these days. Unfortunately, for some people, Azadari means nothing more then blood letting so they start running around shouting AZADARI UNDER ATTACK. The True enemies of Azadari are those who dont understand it properly.

Right, so what are we suppose to teach them? That Tabara is sending lanats and Azadari is blood letting? Is that what Azadari and Tabara ACTUALLY are?

Firstly, if Zanjeer/Qama is seen in good light again and is seen as not bieng derogatory to Imam Hussains a.s message in others eyes then bismillah we can start doing it. You do realize that the people who say dont do Zanjeer are someof the most CONSERVATIRE RADICAL EXTREME (whatever u wanna call it) shias around. So dont use the tag liberal.

Again for certain people Azadari is either blood letting or nothing. May Allah guide us all.

Wasalam.

Very well said...FANTASTIC arguments and points put forward

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QUOTE (SipaheMehdi @ Feb 26 2009, 07:04 PM)

Salam.

W'salaam and Ya Ali Madad brother

No one is against listening to the fazail of AhlulBayt a.s but to say that talking about other strands of knowledge inside islam has no place in a majalis, which may I remind you was, is and will always be the platform for gaining Islamic knowledge by our Masumeen, then I seriously think we need to realize and understand what the majalis of Imam Ali a.s were, what the majalis of Imam Sajjad a.s was and what the majalis of Bibi Zainab s.a was.

I didn’t say that any other knowledge about Islam shouldn’t be allowed in a Majlis. Majlis is where we get our main source of knowledge from beside the books that we read for enhancing it. But to preach knowledge is one thing, and to talk about politics is a whole different matter. You’ve misunderstood me brother. A Majlis is not a place to give out one’s own personal proof of innocence. If such matters need to be taken care of, a discussion can be held elsewhere. It’s quite sad when one hears that a Maulana from our community has to show up at a Idara with bodyguards due to safety concerns (not because of some other faith, but our own). When we sit on farsh-e-aza, It shouldn’t be about..how do I put this? What one maulana said about the other maulana or what someone called someone else..and while saying all that using the Ahle bayt (a.s.) as a tool very smartly, that where if one is listening, one doesn’t even realize that it’s all just a façade. And I do agree with you, we do need to go back and look at what the contents were of the Majlis that Bibi Zainab (a.s.) preached or Imam Zain-ul-abideen (as) preached. Maybe I’m at a lack of words and don’t know how to express what I think. And yes practice tabara then, that’s what I had meant. Leave a kid some slack J. Enemies of Islam may show up at a majlis. Everything in today’s world is very jaded. Only God and one knows their intentions.

May Allah remind us all of the revolution brought about by the minbar of our Prophet, our beloved Aimmah and Bibi Zainab (May Allah be pleased with them all). If we think that politcs are not a part of Imam Hussains a.s message at Kerbela. Then May Maula a.s help us all.

Do elaborate on how Politics were a part of Karbala. Sorry when you say that, it takes me back to Dr. Naik’s lecture on how he had referred Karbala as and how he referred to everything as just a war for politics. As far as I know Politics were a part from Yazid’s side. He wanted our Imam’s (a.s.) bayat to carry his actions, make them legit when he passed them on and to take over basically I guess . The sacrifice that our beloved Imam (a.s.) gave wasn’t due to politics, He (a.s) did it for humankind and for the sake of saving Islam. He (a.s.) doesn’t need politics, They (Ahle-bayt[a.s.]) are the rulers of Paradise. I see how politics would have been in the mind of the oppressors, but I’d never thought that politics played any other role in the tragedy of Karbala.

...our Prophet, our beloved Aimmah and Bibi Zainab (May Allah be pleased with them all).

The way you said “(May Allah be Pleased with them)”, caught my eye. I don’t know about you, but speaking for myself and many other shia’s out here in North America, we believe that Allah is Already pleased with them hence we send our salaam and durood upon them. “May Allah be pleased with them” refers to someone who is (r.a.) Razi-ulah Ta’lah Unhoo? I’m sorry but I've never heard that terminology used with our Holy Prophet (a.s.) or his Family (a.s).

Politics and current news of Shias in the world is very relevant to the Majlis of Imam Hussain as long as it is related back to his message in Kerbela. Rest I agree with.

Yes I agree with what you’re saying. But at the same time, I just find that Muharram is supposed to be solely focused on explaining Faizal-e-Ahle bayt and explaining the tragedy of Karbala and relating it to today’s events (if you want to go into the politics of things), since we have regular Thrusday majlis’s at the mosque throughout the whole year, where other matters can be elaborated on. What I don’t understand is when one is sitting in a majlis and one has to stop for a second and wonder if they’re still sitting in majlis, or if they’re at some centre of complaints. I’m just stating my opinion.

Very good question. Why not? Are the people who are not cursing commiting haram? Why are they not cursing? They openly curse yazid and crew why dont they openly curse the others. Why do you think that is sis? Is it because they love the others? Think logically. Do you hate the others more because you curse and they hate them less because they dont. How do you know that after every namaz on thier tasbihs they dont send lanat to the others (the way our Imams taught us btw). Could it possibly be because us sending lanat (which is not wajib btw, Tabara is wajib), is bieng used as a weapon to kill our fellow brothers and sisters in Parachinar D.I Khan etc? Now people who do openly send lanat, they either know this is happening and dont give a hoot about thier brothers dying hence continue or they do not know and they need to be made aware of the situation there. Our shia brothers are bieng taken and cut up into parts and bieng sent back to thier families. Do people who send lanat know videos of them doing lanat is shown to these killers to motivate them to kill more shias. Ofcourse the people they follow are wrong and are cursed but you have to remember that the killers are bieng brainwashed cause at the end of the day, they have been brought up loving up thier leaders, ofcourse it will be easy to brainwash them, ofcourse it will be easy to motivate them to kill more shias, and thankfully for them, we are here to supply them with more motivation to kill shias. But obviously it is not us in our centres who are dying so why should we care. Lets keep on sending lanats and we might think about other mroe important forms of Tabara if by chance we are directly effected.

And I never said anything like that the people who don’t curse them are any more better shia’s than the one’s who do curse them. All I’m saying is that, if one is cursing them, then that’s their own business and another shouldn’t interfere in someone else’s business and tell them to stop it by saying that it’s not jaiz. And if it’s because of us shia’s out here in the western world that shia’s in the eastern world are getting killed.. Shouldn’t we all just go in taqayya then? And I’m not being sarcastic when I’m saying that. I’m being serious and asking a question. I mean I had seen it in the news when that had happened, but I didn’t know that the reason why it happened was due to us westerners sending lanat openly. But you see, it’s one thing saying that don’t send lanats due to a legit reason than to say that don’t send lanats because at the end of the day it’s not jaiz to say it openly.

Can I just point out that these acts were not repeated every year. If the ones who felt the greatest sorrow did not repeat it then who are we to do it and then call it thier sunnah. They did it at the true hieght of love devotion and affection and they did not repeat it so are you telling me that you reach that level of devotion every year precisely as majalis finishes, matam is over, and the cover is laid. Are you telling me that Bibi Zainab felt less devotion then you did because she only did it once and you feel that devotion every single year?

So are you saying that Zanjeer/qama and matam shouldn’t be done repeatedly every year? And when I had given those examples, they were just given to state that if one does zanjeer/qama or matam, it’s not haram or “not jaiz” as some people have started saying. Because the masoomeen (a.s.) are infallible and it’s not that they stay away from uncleanness, but uncleanness stays away from them. And when Hazrat Owais Karni had broken his all his teeth, the Prophet (a.s.) had smiled and had said that indeed Hazrat Owais is their (a.s.) devoted friend. So the only reason why I brought those examples to light was to state that it isn’t haram as some put it and there are many other examples as well. And astaghfirullah brother, never would I ever think of such a thing like you’ve managed to question. I’m nothing compared to Bibi Zainab (a.s.), I wouldn’t ever in my wildest dreams think to even ever compare. You’ve taken my words and twisted them brother. Bibi Zainab (a.s.) was present at the time of when Karbala took place, we aren’t. We’re only mere human beings and many of us are sinners, but we try to do our best to give the masoomeen (a.s.) pursa and we only try and imagine the pain they must have suffered. I don’t know about you, but every Muharram/safar Alhumdulillah I come out wanting to be a better person than last year, It always refreshes one’s soul and cleanses it. Again, I would never dare compare my suffering/anguish at hearing the events to those of Bibi (a.s.) experiencing them. As you understand that we’re hundreds of years away from the actual tragedy of Karbala but Alhumdulillah I can say we are still very attached to the message and can feel the sorrow so freshly every year that it leaves a stain for the rest of the year which reminds us to better our acts/deeds. And matam doesn’t push people away, and if it does, it’s because they don’t understand the essence of it. And when they question, Alhumdulillah I can say I’ve been able to explain it to many different audiences and they’ve seen it in a new light. If our own people start getting confused about it, how will we explain it to others?

The funny thing is the mullahs who have spoken out against Zanjeer/Qama have been the biggest promoters and implementers of Azadari in the world these days. Unfortunately, for some people, Azadari means nothing more then blood letting so they start running around shouting AZADARI UNDER ATTACK. The True enemies of Azadari are those who dont understand it properly.

And even if those mullah’s are against zanjeer/qama due to thinking that people will turn away from our faith. I would like to stop and think of the time when Bibi (a.s.) struck her head against the object…keeping in mind that there was jahalat back then as well, and if her (a.s) act was something that would have had people turn away from our faith, she (a.s.) would have never done it astaghfirullah. I hope I’m keeping the reader on the right track of what I’m trying to say and forgive me if you twist my words when you read it. Aside from that, living here in North America we also have great well known renounced scholars who have brought azadari to great light amongst the non-shias and not only that, but they’ve kept zanjeer/qama with it and people actually understand what it is when they take a step to open their hearts.

Right, so what are we suppose to teach them? That Tabara is sending lanats and Azadari is blood letting? Is that what Azadari and Tabara ACTUALLY are?

And yet again, you’ve twisted my words. Tabara is not just sending lanats and Azadari is not just shedding of the blood.

You do realize that the people who say dont do Zanjeer are someof the most CONSERVATIRE RADICAL EXTREME (whatever u wanna call it) shias around. So dont use the tag liberal.

And those terms like “malang” and “liberal”, were all put in quotations in my post from before. That’s not the tag that I’ve put on anyone, they were said in sarcastic ways in case you did not realize.

Easiest way is to phone Idara and ask.

Which Idara do I call? If you have the number then please do let me know.

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QUOTE (SipaheMehdi @ Feb 26 2009, 07:04 PM)

W'salaam and Ya Ali Madad brother

I didn’t say that any other knowledge about Islam shouldn’t be allowed in a Majlis. Majlis is where we get our main source of knowledge from beside the books that we read for enhancing it. But to preach knowledge is one thing, and to talk about politics is a whole different matter. You’ve misunderstood me brother. A Majlis is not a place to give out one’s own personal proof of innocence. If such matters need to be taken care of, a discussion can be held elsewhere. It’s quite sad when one hears that a Maulana from our community has to show up at a Idara with bodyguards due to safety concerns (not because of some other faith, but our own). When we sit on farsh-e-aza, It shouldn’t be about..how do I put this? What one maulana said about the other maulana or what someone called someone else..and while saying all that using the Ahle bayt (a.s.) as a tool very smartly, that where if one is listening, one doesn’t even realize that it’s all just a façade. And I do agree with you, we do need to go back and look at what the contents were of the Majlis that Bibi Zainab (a.s.) preached or Imam Zain-ul-abideen (as) preached. Maybe I’m at a lack of words and don’t know how to express what I think. And yes practice tabara then, that’s what I had meant. Leave a kid some slack J. Enemies of Islam may show up at a majlis. Everything in today’s world is very jaded. Only God and one knows their intentions.

Do elaborate on how Politics were a part of Karbala. Sorry when you say that, it takes me back to Dr. Naik’s lecture on how he had referred Karbala as and how he referred to everything as just a war for politics. As far as I know Politics were a part from Yazid’s side. He wanted our Imam’s (a.s.) bayat to carry his actions, make them legit when he passed them on and to take over basically I guess . The sacrifice that our beloved Imam (a.s.) gave wasn’t due to politics, He (a.s) did it for humankind and for the sake of saving Islam. He (a.s.) doesn’t need politics, They (Ahle-bayt[a.s.]) are the rulers of Paradise. I see how politics would have been in the mind of the oppressors, but I’d never thought that politics played any other role in the tragedy of Karbala.

The way you said “(May Allah be Pleased with them)”, caught my eye. I don’t know about you, but speaking for myself and many other shia’s out here in North America, we believe that Allah is Already pleased with them hence we send our salaam and durood upon them. “May Allah be pleased with them” refers to someone who is (r.a.) Razi-ulah Ta’lah Unhoo? I’m sorry but I've never heard that terminology used with our Holy Prophet (a.s.) or his Family (a.s).

Yes I agree with what you’re saying. But at the same time, I just find that Muharram is supposed to be solely focused on explaining Faizal-e-Ahle bayt and explaining the tragedy of Karbala and relating it to today’s events (if you want to go into the politics of things), since we have regular Thrusday majlis’s at the mosque throughout the whole year, where other matters can be elaborated on. What I don’t understand is when one is sitting in a majlis and one has to stop for a second and wonder if they’re still sitting in majlis, or if they’re at some centre of complaints. I’m just stating my opinion.

And I never said anything like that the people who don’t curse them are any more better shia’s than the one’s who do curse them. All I’m saying is that, if one is cursing them, then that’s their own business and another shouldn’t interfere in someone else’s business and tell them to stop it by saying that it’s not jaiz. And if it’s because of us shia’s out here in the western world that shia’s in the eastern world are getting killed.. Shouldn’t we all just go in taqayya then? And I’m not being sarcastic when I’m saying that. I’m being serious and asking a question. I mean I had seen it in the news when that had happened, but I didn’t know that the reason why it happened was due to us westerners sending lanat openly. But you see, it’s one thing saying that don’t send lanats due to a legit reason than to say that don’t send lanats because at the end of the day it’s not jaiz to say it openly.

So are you saying that Zanjeer/qama and matam shouldn’t be done repeatedly every year? And when I had given those examples, they were just given to state that if one does zanjeer/qama or matam, it’s not haram or “not jaiz” as some people have started saying. Because the masoomeen (a.s.) are infallible and it’s not that they stay away from uncleanness, but uncleanness stays away from them. And when Hazrat Owais Karni had broken his all his teeth, the Prophet (a.s.) had smiled and had said that indeed Hazrat Owais is their (a.s.) devoted friend. So the only reason why I brought those examples to light was to state that it isn’t haram as some put it and there are many other examples as well. And astaghfirullah brother, never would I ever think of such a thing like you’ve managed to question. I’m nothing compared to Bibi Zainab (a.s.), I wouldn’t ever in my wildest dreams think to even ever compare. You’ve taken my words and twisted them brother. Bibi Zainab (a.s.) was present at the time of when Karbala took place, we aren’t. We’re only mere human beings and many of us are sinners, but we try to do our best to give the masoomeen (a.s.) pursa and we only try and imagine the pain they must have suffered. I don’t know about you, but every Muharram/safar Alhumdulillah I come out wanting to be a better person than last year, It always refreshes one’s soul and cleanses it. Again, I would never dare compare my suffering/anguish at hearing the events to those of Bibi (a.s.) experiencing them. As you understand that we’re hundreds of years away from the actual tragedy of Karbala but Alhumdulillah I can say we are still very attached to the message and can feel the sorrow so freshly every year that it leaves a stain for the rest of the year which reminds us to better our acts/deeds. And matam doesn’t push people away, and if it does, it’s because they don’t understand the essence of it. And when they question, Alhumdulillah I can say I’ve been able to explain it to many different audiences and they’ve seen it in a new light. If our own people start getting confused about it, how will we explain it to others?

And even if those mullah’s are against zanjeer/qama due to thinking that people will turn away from our faith. I would like to stop and think of the time when Bibi (a.s.) struck her head against the object…keeping in mind that there was jahalat back then as well, and if her (a.s) act was something that would have had people turn away from our faith, she (a.s.) would have never done it astaghfirullah. I hope I’m keeping the reader on the right track of what I’m trying to say and forgive me if you twist my words when you read it. Aside from that, living here in North America we also have great well known renounced scholars who have brought azadari to great light amongst the non-shias and not only that, but they’ve kept zanjeer/qama with it and people actually understand what it is when they take a step to open their hearts.

And yet again, you’ve twisted my words. Tabara is not just sending lanats and Azadari is not just shedding of the blood.

And those terms like “malang” and “liberal”, were all put in quotations in my post from before. That’s not the tag that I’ve put on anyone, they were said in sarcastic ways in case you did not realize.

Which Idara do I call? If you have the number then please do let me know.

salaam,

you seem to make a great deal of seperating out politics and religion. This seperation had already occured in the west where religion was consigned to the churches and politic to the 'street'. It is only in recent years that the church has attempted to reclaim the streets and the politicians the churches.

It is interesting that a Muslim should be advocating that we should seperating politic and religiion.

For the sake of clarification can you give specific examples of political subjects that have no religious dimension from the Islamic point of view.

salaam

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W'salaam and Ya Ali Madad brother

Salam once again.

Pray you are well.

A Majlis is not a place to give out one’s own personal proof of innocence. If such matters need to be taken care of, a discussion can be held elsewhere. It’s quite sad when one hears that a Maulana from our community has to show up at a Idara with bodyguards due to safety concerns (not because of some other faith, but our own).

I know what you mean :(

Do elaborate on how Politics were a part of Karbala. Sorry when you say that, it takes me back to Dr. Naik’s lecture on how he had referred Karbala as and how he referred to everything as just a war for politics. As far as I know Politics were a part from Yazid’s side. He wanted our Imam’s (a.s.) bayat to carry his actions, make them legit when he passed them on and to take over basically I guess . The sacrifice that our beloved Imam (a.s.) gave wasn’t due to politics, He (a.s) did it for humankind and for the sake of saving Islam. He (a.s.) doesn’t need politics, They (Ahle-bayt[a.s.]) are the rulers of Paradise. I see how politics would have been in the mind of the oppressors, but I’d never thought that politics played any other role in the tragedy of Karbala.

I understand where you are comming from but I feel you have misunderstood what I meant. Politics is not above religion to stand on top of it. It is not side by side with religion rather politics is under religion. Religion incapsulates every single thing in our life. If you are telling me that politics/how the people are governed/ how we should deal with a tyrant etc are not withing Islam then God Forbid our Isam is incomplete. Thing about this logically. Our complete and most beautifull faith takes inside it every branch of knowledge. Everyone seems to use politics as if it is a swear word. Like OH MY GOD they said Kerbela has Politcs astaghfirullah astaghfirullah astaghfirullah need to do my wudhu just cause of hearing that ,sort of thing. Politics, or the governance of the people is a massive part of our religion. Look at Nahjul Balagha look at the sermons of Imam Ali his letters. Look at Kerbela, the religious sacrifice of our beloved Imam Hussain a.s was the biggest political blow to yazid. By Imam Hussain a.s saving the religio of Islam through his sacrifice he provided such a massive political statement (which is religious in itself) that after a few years yazid laeens governance flopped. I would like to hear ur answer to true sunnis questions.

The way you said “(May Allah be Pleased with them)”, caught my eye. I don’t know about you, but speaking for myself and many other shia’s out here in North America, we believe that Allah is Already pleased with them hence we send our salaam and durood upon them. “May Allah be pleased with them” refers to someone who is (r.a.) Razi-ulah Ta’lah Unhoo? I’m sorry but I've never heard that terminology used with our Holy Prophet (a.s.) or his Family (a.s).

Sorry I meant Peace be upon them. :$

Yes I agree with what you’re saying. But at the same time, I just find that Muharram is supposed to be solely focused on explaining Faizal-e-Ahle bayt and explaining the tragedy of Karbala and relating it to today’s events (if you want to go into the politics of things), since we have regular Thrusday majlis’s at the mosque throughout the whole year, where other matters can be elaborated on. What I don’t understand is when one is sitting in a majlis and one has to stop for a second and wonder if they’re still sitting in majlis, or if they’re at some centre of complaints. I’m just stating my opinion.

Makes sense :)

And I never said anything like that the people who don’t curse them are any more better shia’s than the one’s who do curse them. All I’m saying is that, if one is cursing them, then that’s their own business and another shouldn’t interfere in someone else’s business and tell them to stop it by saying that it’s not jaiz. And if it’s because of us shia’s out here in the western world that shia’s in the eastern world are getting killed.. Shouldn’t we all just go in taqayya then? And I’m not being sarcastic when I’m saying that. I’m being serious and asking a question. I mean I had seen it in the news when that had happened, but I didn’t know that the reason why it happened was due to us westerners sending lanat openly. But you see, it’s one thing saying that don’t send lanats due to a legit reason than to say that don’t send lanats because at the end of the day it’s not jaiz to say it openly.

The point is you dont compramise on your wajibats. Tabara (disassociating yourself with the enemy) is a wajibat. The way you do it, or the method you adopt is not wajib. There that can be changed especially if it will save the lives of your fellow shia brothers. For there sake if you can adopt a different and better way of doing tabara then bismillah.

So are you saying that Zanjeer/qama and matam shouldn’t be done repeatedly every year? And when I had given those examples, they were just given to state that if one does zanjeer/qama or matam, it’s not haram or “not jaiz” as some people have started saying. Because the masoomeen (a.s.) are infallible and it’s not that they stay away from uncleanness, but uncleanness stays away from them. And when Hazrat Owais Karni had broken his all his teeth, the Prophet (a.s.) had smiled and had said that indeed Hazrat Owais is their (a.s.) devoted friend. So the only reason why I brought those examples to light was to state that it isn’t haram as some put it and there are many other examples as well.

So I ask you why have these great big marjas said it is haram? Can you explain it for me? They have not called theact itself hram but have said the situation which has come up makes that non wajib act haram. To me that makes perfect sense. And again we do it as a ritual, something repeated. They did not. Simple.

And astaghfirullah brother, never would I ever think of such a thing like you’ve managed to question. I’m nothing compared to Bibi Zainab (a.s.), I wouldn’t ever in my wildest dreams think to even ever compare. You’ve taken my words and twisted them brother. Bibi Zainab (a.s.) was present at the time of when Karbala took place, we aren’t. We’re only mere human beings and many of us are sinners, but we try to do our best to give the masoomeen (a.s.) pursa and we only try and imagine the pain they must have suffered. I don’t know about you, but every Muharram/safar Alhumdulillah I come out wanting to be a better person than last year, It always refreshes one’s soul and cleanses it. Again, I would never dare compare my suffering/anguish at hearing the events to those of Bibi (a.s.) experiencing them.

Thats the whole poin that I was making. You cant compare it. They suffered alot more then we did yet she did not repeat the act of making herself bleed. The rest of what you said was beautifull :'(

As you understand that we’re hundreds of years away from the actual tragedy of Karbala but Alhumdulillah I can say we are still very attached to the message and can feel the sorrow so freshly every year that it leaves a stain for the rest of the year which reminds us to better our acts/deeds. And matam doesn’t push people away, and if it does, it’s because they don’t understand the essence of it. And when they question, Alhumdulillah I can say I’ve been able to explain it to many different audiences and they’ve seen it in a new light. If our own people start getting confused about it, how will we explain it to others?

Have you ever gone to ask the representatitive of the maraja who have said you can not do it with the current scheme of things? They will explain the situation better then I ever could. And plus you can have an open talk witht hem abotu the issue.

And even if those mullah’s are against zanjeer/qama due to thinking that people will turn away from our faith. I would like to stop and think of the time when Bibi (a.s.) struck her head against the object…keeping in mind that there was jahalat back then as well, and if her (a.s) act was something that would have had people turn away from our faith, she (a.s.) would have never done it astaghfirullah.

She did it once sis do you nto see that difference between that act and what zanjeer/qama is now???

I hope I’m keeping the reader on the right track of what I’m trying to say and forgive me if you twist my words when you read it. Aside from that, living here in North America we also have great well known renounced scholars who have brought azadari to great light amongst the non-shias and not only that, but they’ve kept zanjeer/qama with it and people actually understand what it is when they take a step to open their hearts.

And yet again, you’ve twisted my words. Tabara is not just sending lanats and Azadari is not just shedding of the blood.

Im really sorry I was talking mroe in the general sense and not just you sis. Please do forgiv me:(

And those terms like “malang” and “liberal”, were all put in quotations in my post from before. That’s not the tag that I’ve put on anyone, they were said in sarcastic ways in case you did not realize.

Sorry

Which Idara do I call? If you have the number then please do let me know.

The place where he was reading. I am sure you can find their number from somewhere.

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Salam once again.

W'salaam and Ya Ali Madad once again.

Pray you are well.

Hope you are well too.

I understand where you are comming from but I feel you have misunderstood what I meant. Politics is not above religion to stand on top of it. It is not side by side with religion rather politics is under religion. Religion incapsulates every single thing in our life. If you are telling me that politics/how the people are governed/ how we should deal with a tyrant etc are not withing Islam then God Forbid our Isam is incomplete. Thing about this logically. Our complete and most beautifull faith takes inside it every branch of knowledge. Everyone seems to use politics as if it is a swear word. Like OH MY GOD they said Kerbela has Politcs astaghfirullah astaghfirullah astaghfirullah need to do my wudhu just cause of hearing that ,sort of thing. Politics, or the governance of the people is a massive part of our religion. Look at Nahjul Balagha look at the sermons of Imam Ali his letters. Look at Kerbela, the religious sacrifice of our beloved Imam Hussain a.s was the biggest political blow to yazid. By Imam Hussain a.s saving the religio of Islam through his sacrifice he provided such a massive political statement (which is religious in itself) that after a few years yazid laeens governance flopped. I would like to hear ur answer to true sunnis questions.

You see, the thing is that we`re not all living under Islamic Sharia Law. If we all were then it would be a different situation. And yeah it was a big political blow to Yazid on his end, but a person has to keep in mind that when the Imam (a.s.) sacrificed himself, along with family and friends, his intentions in mind weren’t of politics. It was purely and solely for the sake of saving Islam for mankind. And when you compare that to the politics of today’s world and religion, a person has to keep in mind that people may have intentions of politics over religion. Where they will weave irrelevant politics into religion. So one has to research and study to make sure that the ground that one stands on is firm and not wobbly. I mean, if Islam today was solidly held together, then we wouldn`t be having problems like these today, where one can`t tell if it`s a personal opinion on a matter turned into Islamic law or if it really is Islamic law. First of all, being a momin, we all have to better ourselves as human beings from the heart, mind and soul. Alhumdulillah, I can say that our faith and belief in the main message is not faltered, we all believe in Wilayat-e-Imam Ali (a.s) and the 11 beloved Imams (a.s.) following. It’s just come to a point on where some have a difference of opinion on certain things.

The point is you dont compramise on your wajibats. Tabara (disassociating yourself with the enemy) is a wajibat. The way you do it, or the method you adopt is not wajib. There that can be changed especially if it will save the lives of your fellow shia brothers. For there sake if you can adopt a different and better way of doing tabara then bismillah.

And as I said before, if the times have come to this extent where it’s due to us westerners out here that the momin brothers/sisters in the eastern world are getting slaughtered, then it should be brought to light in every idara out here in the west and the east. And we should all be going into taqayya. Because seriously, if that’s the only reason as to why they’re killing shias on the other end of the world, then we should seriously take action towards it. And we should also change the way that we recite Ziyarat-e-ashura since we say the names in there and send lanat upon the deserving lantees. Because the Omayyad’s (LA) are still held respectfully in wahabi or extremist sunni views. I’m sure it’s not just because of us sending Lanat upon their first 3 khalifas(LA). They don’t only give respect to the people who were the very cause of bibi Fatima Zahra‘s (a.s.) turmoil, but they also give respect to the people who were the cause of Bibi Zainab’s (a.s.) turmoil. If we’re going to go all the way and change the form of lanat brother, then we need to take matters seriously and make sure that we take out all forms of it from our ziyarats as well (since any one can be recording us any time and sending our tapes to the eastern world to promote killing shias).

So I ask you why have these great big marjas said it is haram? Can you explain it for me? They have not called theact itself hram but have said the situation which has come up makes that non wajib act haram. To me that makes perfect sense. And again we do it as a ritual, something repeated. They did not. Simple.

To tell you the truth, I don’t know why these Great marjas have condemned it to be haram, while others havent. They need to first sit and decide what they all agree upon first. Due to the reason of marjas differentiating on opinions and giving their opinions names of haram and halal… I don’t do taqleed of one specific marja. (Now that’ a whole different topic on how some people think that it’s wajib to do taqleed, where as others don’t think it’s wajib). A ritual is something different. We’re not kaffirs to be performing balooshga rituals like maniacs..

She did it once sis do you nto see that difference between that act and what zanjeer/qama is now???

And yes what is the act of Zanjeer/qama/matam now? You put it in such a way where a person has to stop and think like, “uhh what is it? Did something go down while I just about blinked my eye?”. The way that you’ve put it makes one think that it’s become into a fashion statement instead of azadari. As I stated before, Zanjeer/Qama or matam are not done to show someone else or done as an act of a yearly ritual that we psyche ourselves up for. It’s done from one’s own niyyat for themselves to give pursa. Some people may think that we’re crazy when they see us at first, but the non-ignorant one’s will seek to know more. And the ignorant one’s shall remain ignorant. Like the ayat in the Quran states in Surah Al-Baqarah “(16) Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindleth fire, and when it sheddeth its light around him Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them in darkness, where they cannot see, (17) Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not.” Actually, I cant even believe that there are people within our shia community who are against matam/zanjeer/qama by STATING that it’s haram or not jaiz.

And yet again some shia’s fail to realize that we are not present at the time of Karbala. We are nearly 1400 years away from the actual tragedy. But Alhumdulillah it still ignites a fire in our hearts so intense even today at hearing the name Hussain (a.s).So every year it’s as though it were a fresh wound exposed once again to the tragedy. People in this world do so many haraam acts in their daily lives, but let’s say if they try and prevent themselves from all the other haraam acts and live their life with the teachings of Ahle-Bayth and get so emotional at hearing the tragedy of Karbala and God forgive them but they wish that if they were present they would have shed their blood and offered themselves, but since they couldn’t back then, so to express that suffering they do matam/zanjeer/qama and hear fazail-e-Ahle-Bayth in today‘s world, May Allah forgive them. After all, Allah is the most forgiving wouldn‘t you say so?

May Allah keep the momins on the right path inshallah.

salaam,

you seem to make a great deal of seperating out politics and religion. This seperation had already occured in the west where religion was consigned to the churches and politic to the 'street'. It is only in recent years that the church has attempted to reclaim the streets and the politicians the churches.

It is interesting that a Muslim should be advocating that we should seperating politic and religiion.

For the sake of clarification can you give specific examples of political subjects that have no religious dimension from the Islamic point of view.

salaam

Ya Ali Madad

Examples can be found in Jan Ali Kazmi’s Majlis, of when he goes on about the randomest thing--CIA Agents. Other mullah’s supposedly holding dinners with Saddam Hussein. Clarification of one’s own personal actions during Majlis-e-Hussain (a.s.), And other irrelevant things that do not need to be mentioned in a Majlis. A lot of other random things have been mentioned in the majlis that I heard, and I don`t know if you know this or not, but Majlis isn’t the place to be holding topics like those.

W'salaam

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Salam :)

You see, the thing is that we`re not all living under Islamic Sharia Law. If we all were then it would be a different situation. And yeah it was a big political blow to Yazid on his end, but a person has to keep in mind that when the Imam (a.s.) sacrificed himself, along with family and friends, his intentions in mind weren’t of politics.

So basically you are saying politics can not be for the sake of Allah even if it is by a masoom?

It was purely and solely for the sake of saving Islam for mankind. And when you compare that to the politics of today’s world and religion, a person has to keep in mind that people may have intentions of politics over religion.

You can not compare what we know as politics today to the politics of our masooms. We can learn from how they dealt with the people they governed, how they governed them, how they spoke to thier governers, how they dealt with thier enemy, diplomacy etc etc. What is wrong with that?

First of all, being a momin, we all have to better ourselves as human beings from the heart, mind and soul. Alhumdulillah, I can say that our faith and belief in the main message is not faltered, we all believe in Wilayat-e-Imam Ali (a.s) and the 11 beloved Imams (a.s.) following. It’s just come to a point on where some have a difference of opinion on certain things.

True.

And as I said before, if the times have come to this extent where it’s due to us westerners out here that the momin brothers/sisters in the eastern world are getting slaughtered, then it should be brought to light in every idara out here in the west and the east. And we should all be going into taqayya.

Well I have a friend who is from Parachinar who managed to get to the UAE who told me that the lanatis are literally making the kids sit infront of a screen and watch shias curse the ones they love so much. We are giving them the fuel used to burn shia homes and families. So why not make sure that we do Tabara in a way which will reduce the chances of this and at the same time improve us. For example not doing those actions which the enemies of the AhlulBayt did etc.

Because seriously, if that’s the only reason as to why they’re killing shias on the other end of the world, then we should seriously take action towards it.
And we should also change the way that we recite Ziyarat-e-ashura since we say the names in there and send lanat upon the deserving lantees. Because the Omayyad’s (LA) are still held respectfully in wahabi or extremist sunni views.

That is actually a very good point never thought of that. Found something to ask maulana :D. I guess a reply would be that you can curse any enemiy as much as you want but just be carefull how you do it. so recite ziarat e ashura but in an atmosphere where it does not create a problem.

I’m sure it’s not just because of us sending Lanat upon their first 3 khalifas(LA). They don’t only give respect to the people who were the very cause of bibi Fatima Zahra‘s (a.s.) turmoil, but they also give respect to the people who were the cause of Bibi Zainab’s (a.s.) turmoil. If we’re going to go all the way and change the form of lanat brother, then we need to take matters seriously and make sure that we take out all forms of it from our ziyarats as well (since any one can be recording us any time and sending our tapes to the eastern world to promote killing shias).

Indeeed. Scary stuff. To be fair I think we should be ready to sacrifice a non wajib act (sending lanat) to preserve a wajib one (tabara). Take a different form of Tabara up which will help improve us and the rest of it as i said above.

To tell you the truth, I don’t know why these Great marjas have condemned it to be haram, while others havent. They need to first sit and decide what they all agree upon first. Due to the reason of marjas differentiating on opinions and giving their opinions names of haram and halal… I don’t do taqleed of one specific marja. (Now that’ a whole different topic on how some people think that it’s wajib to do taqleed, where as others don’t think it’s wajib). A ritual is something different. We’re not kaffirs to be performing balooshga rituals like maniacs..

What would be cool is if we could have seminars all over the world in which the isue of Taqleed and why different marajae have different verdict is discussed in an open atmosphere. Only this way we will be able to understand what true taqleed is and why us Shias do it. I guess the least you can do is take your question to a scholar who practises taqleed and maybe he can guide you with your questions about taqleed :) I know I am definately doing that, makes sense.

And yes what is the act of Zanjeer/qama/matam now? You put it in such a way where a person has to stop and think like, “uhh what is it? Did something go down while I just about blinked my eye?”. The way that you’ve put it makes one think that it’s become into a fashion statement instead of azadari. As I stated before, Zanjeer/Qama or matam are not done to show someone else or done as an act of a yearly ritual that we psyche ourselves up for. It’s done from one’s own niyyat for themselves to give pursa.

Im not undermining the act or bieng offensive in anyway but can you please explain to me how blood letting is giving pursa? I have never doubted the intentions of those that do zanjeer and the amount of love, passion and devotion shown in this act is immense. However, I just feel we should be more aware of the wider responsibility we have to the AhlulBayt and spreading thier message. I feel that we almost forget that the way we walk talk eat breath do everything, we are doing that as Shia/followers of the Masumeens (a.s) and therefore we need to make sure that we are doing it in a way that thier image is upheld. We might have to agree to disagree here I am guessing :)

Some people may think that we’re crazy when they see us at first, but the non-ignorant one’s will seek to know more. And the ignorant one’s shall remain ignorant. Like the ayat in the Quran states in Surah Al-Baqarah “(16) Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindleth fire, and when it sheddeth its light around him Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them in darkness, where they cannot see, (17) Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not.” Actually, I cant even believe that there are people within our shia community who are against matam/zanjeer/qama by STATING that it’s haram or not jaiz.

Again I see the best thing to do is actually go to a scholar which believes this or looks at zanjeer in a negative light and scrutinize his viewpoint. Alhamdulilah unlike other faiths we are able to question our to the maximum because at the end of the day we are on the right. And I mean scrutinize, do nto just ask actually debate and discuss so you understand. This has helped me understand a lot of things inside our beautifull faith and I feel it is the best way to understand it.

And yet again some shia’s fail to realize that we are not present at the time of Karbala. We are nearly 1400 years away from the actual tragedy. But Alhumdulillah it still ignites a fire in our hearts so intense even today at hearing the name Hussain (a.s).So every year it’s as though it were a fresh wound exposed once again to the tragedy. People in this world do so many haraam acts in their daily lives, but let’s say if they try and prevent themselves from all the other haraam acts and live their life with the teachings of Ahle-Bayth and get so emotional at hearing the tragedy of Karbala and God forgive them but they wish that if they were present they would have shed their blood and offered themselves, but since they couldn’t back then, so to express that suffering they do matam/zanjeer/qama and hear fazail-e-Ahle-Bayth in today‘s world, May Allah forgive them. After all, Allah is the most forgiving wouldn‘t you say so?

Obviously He is the best of judgers and He will judge everyone accordingly. He knows best :) However, I think you would agree with me to say that I wish this amount of loyalty and devotion would be given to promote the message of Imam Hussain. Imagine how many people will come close to the truth and how happy our Masumeen a.s will be with us. We would be doing exactly what Syeda Zainab s.a and our Masumeens a.s did, propagating the message of Imam Hussain a.s

May Allah keep the momins on the right path inshallah.

Ilahi Ameen

Examples can be found in Jan Ali Kazmi’s Majlis, of when he goes on about the randomest thing--CIA Agents. Other mullah’s supposedly holding dinners with Saddam Hussein. Clarification of one’s own personal actions during Majlis-e-Hussain (a.s.), And other irrelevant things that do not need to be mentioned in a Majlis. A lot of other random things have been mentioned in the majlis that I heard, and I don`t know if you know this or not, but Majlis isn’t the place to be holding topics like those.

:) That is not what we mean by politics. He tried to to do something which as you say has little place on the minbar. Can you please adress true sunnis question in the context that he meant it to be in. If you want mroe clarification can I pleaseask true sunni to rephrase the question. Thank you :)

W'salaam

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W'salaam and Ya Ali Madad once again.

Hope you are well too.

You see, the thing is that we`re not all living under Islamic Sharia Law. If we all were then it would be a different situation. And yeah it was a big political blow to Yazid on his end, but a person has to keep in mind that when the Imam (a.s.) sacrificed himself, along with family and friends, his intentions in mind weren’t of politics. It was purely and solely for the sake of saving Islam for mankind. And when you compare that to the politics of today’s world and religion, a person has to keep in mind that people may have intentions of politics over religion. Where they will weave irrelevant politics into religion. So one has to research and study to make sure that the ground that one stands on is firm and not wobbly. I mean, if Islam today was solidly held together, then we wouldn`t be having problems like these today, where one can`t tell if it`s a personal opinion on a matter turned into Islamic law or if it really is Islamic law. First of all, being a momin, we all have to better ourselves as human beings from the heart, mind and soul. Alhumdulillah, I can say that our faith and belief in the main message is not faltered, we all believe in Wilayat-e-Imam Ali (a.s) and the 11 beloved Imams (a.s.) following. It’s just come to a point on where some have a difference of opinion on certain things.

And as I said before, if the times have come to this extent where it’s due to us westerners out here that the momin brothers/sisters in the eastern world are getting slaughtered, then it should be brought to light in every idara out here in the west and the east. And we should all be going into taqayya. Because seriously, if that’s the only reason as to why they’re killing shias on the other end of the world, then we should seriously take action towards it. And we should also change the way that we recite Ziyarat-e-ashura since we say the names in there and send lanat upon the deserving lantees. Because the Omayyad’s (LA) are still held respectfully in wahabi or extremist sunni views. I’m sure it’s not just because of us sending Lanat upon their first 3 khalifas(LA). They don’t only give respect to the people who were the very cause of bibi Fatima Zahra‘s (a.s.) turmoil, but they also give respect to the people who were the cause of Bibi Zainab’s (a.s.) turmoil. If we’re going to go all the way and change the form of lanat brother, then we need to take matters seriously and make sure that we take out all forms of it from our ziyarats as well (since any one can be recording us any time and sending our tapes to the eastern world to promote killing shias).

To tell you the truth, I don’t know why these Great marjas have condemned it to be haram, while others havent. They need to first sit and decide what they all agree upon first. Due to the reason of marjas differentiating on opinions and giving their opinions names of haram and halal… I don’t do taqleed of one specific marja. (Now that’ a whole different topic on how some people think that it’s wajib to do taqleed, where as others don’t think it’s wajib). A ritual is something different. We’re not kaffirs to be performing balooshga rituals like maniacs..

And yes what is the act of Zanjeer/qama/matam now? You put it in such a way where a person has to stop and think like, “uhh what is it? Did something go down while I just about blinked my eye?”. The way that you’ve put it makes one think that it’s become into a fashion statement instead of azadari. As I stated before, Zanjeer/Qama or matam are not done to show someone else or done as an act of a yearly ritual that we psyche ourselves up for. It’s done from one’s own niyyat for themselves to give pursa. Some people may think that we’re crazy when they see us at first, but the non-ignorant one’s will seek to know more. And the ignorant one’s shall remain ignorant. Like the ayat in the Quran states in Surah Al-Baqarah “(16) Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindleth fire, and when it sheddeth its light around him Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them in darkness, where they cannot see, (17) Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not.” Actually, I cant even believe that there are people within our shia community who are against matam/zanjeer/qama by STATING that it’s haram or not jaiz.

And yet again some shia’s fail to realize that we are not present at the time of Karbala. We are nearly 1400 years away from the actual tragedy. But Alhumdulillah it still ignites a fire in our hearts so intense even today at hearing the name Hussain (a.s).So every year it’s as though it were a fresh wound exposed once again to the tragedy. People in this world do so many haraam acts in their daily lives, but let’s say if they try and prevent themselves from all the other haraam acts and live their life with the teachings of Ahle-Bayth and get so emotional at hearing the tragedy of Karbala and God forgive them but they wish that if they were present they would have shed their blood and offered themselves, but since they couldn’t back then, so to express that suffering they do matam/zanjeer/qama and hear fazail-e-Ahle-Bayth in today‘s world, May Allah forgive them. After all, Allah is the most forgiving wouldn‘t you say so?

May Allah keep the momins on the right path inshallah.

Ya Ali Madad

Examples can be found in Jan Ali Kazmi’s Majlis, of when he goes on about the randomest thing--CIA Agents. Other mullah’s supposedly holding dinners with Saddam Hussein. Clarification of one’s own personal actions during Majlis-e-Hussain (a.s.), And other irrelevant things that do not need to be mentioned in a Majlis. A lot of other random things have been mentioned in the majlis that I heard, and I don`t know if you know this or not, but Majlis isn’t the place to be holding topics like those.

W'salaam

Ya Ali (as) Madad, Very well said...FANTASTIC arguments and points put forward!

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Salam :)

can you address true sunnis question in the context that he meant it to be in. If you want mroe clarification can I pleaseask true sunni to rephrase the question. Thank you :)

W'salaam

Salam,

You seem a bit keen for sister Zahra to answer true sunni's question? It is entirely your decision but it surprises me that when someone says Ya Ali (as) Madad you do not reply to that even if you just say Maula (as)'s name for blessings?

Forgive me if i'm mistaken but judging by your posts it looks as if you are purposefuly refraining from saying our Paak Imam (as)s name due to some kind of rival stubborness?

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

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