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BULB

[Closed/Review]Jan Ali Kazmi

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^^

Definitely, Nicely said !!

That's what i tell people always !! Let everything aside, this Maulana is a Syed: the Royal Family. I'm not so sure brothers if Bibi Fatima Zehra (S.A.) would be very pleased by this group. That's all I have to say !! so hypocritic, these guys claim to love the family of the Prophet YET they curse the Syeds !! This is what you guys are doing in the name if Imam Hussain (A.S.). Very ignorant to think that Imam Hussain, let alone be happy, would be OKAY with this behavior. He speaks nothing from himself and follows whatever he gets from the Mujtahids. He is one of the Greatest Maulanas in Pakistan right now !! I can certainly understand why his stuff is unbearable to 'malangs' since they don't want to follow any part of the Fru !! but believe me.. no namaz/roza and just Ya Ali probably wouldn't help !!

Ya Ali Madad !!

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Salam,

The problem is people do not recognize the difference between cursing and critisizing. It is even haram to humiliate or dimeen a momin let alone degrade him. If you got something against him then fine but there are ways to express it.

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Salam to all Believers and followers of Prophet Muhammad (saw)

All those people who cursed mawlan Jan Ali Shah Kazmi and used abusive language and also said horrible and disgracefull things to him in Idara Jafriya must keep in mind that they have actually cursed and used abusive langauge for a descendant of Imam Musa Kazim (as)

Shame on all those who cant even respect a scholar despite the fact that it is obligatory on muslims to respect a religious scholar because an alim is the heir of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his progeny)

I wonder how these men and women will face the 12th Imam on the day of his reappearance after disrespecting and hurting a Mawlana who has devoted his entire life to spread the word of Allah

Ws wrwb,

Are you able to tell me who cursed him and used bad language, used horrible and disgraceful language? If you are merely refering to criticism and calling a wrongful act 'wrong' then should we now STOP practising our Faru E Deen because he is a Syed?

I truly can not understand why you people are putting soo much emphassis on J A Kazmi? I get the feeling you place him higher then ANY other scholar... You make it sound like he is unique and is the ONLY maullana who (in your words) 'devoted his entire life' for Islam. How is he different from other scholars in that respect and what does that have to do with the obvious mistakes he is making?

What do you mean by 'heir of Raool Allah (saws)?

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

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^^

Definitely, Nicely said !!

That's what i tell people always !! Let everything aside, this Maulana is a Syed: the Royal Family. I'm not so sure brothers if Bibi Fatima Zehra (S.A.) would be very pleased by this group. That's all I have to say !! so hypocritic, these guys claim to love the family of the Prophet YET they curse the Syeds !! This is what you guys are doing in the name if Imam Hussain (A.S.). Very ignorant to think that Imam Hussain, let alone be happy, would be OKAY with this behavior. He speaks nothing from himself and follows whatever he gets from the Mujtahids. He is one of the Greatest Maulanas in Pakistan right now !! I can certainly understand why his stuff is unbearable to 'malangs' since they don't want to follow any part of the Fru !! but believe me.. no namaz/roza and just Ya Ali probably wouldn't help !!

Ya Ali Madad !!

Your comments perurb me somewhat! I always ask this question and never seem to get a reply, who are 'this group' or 'the malangs' how does one join them? Do they have a members list or is it just the Azadar/Matami in general?

Could you tell me (name names if you have to) who curses Syeds? If someone does then that is wholly wrong so could you provide any proof for this?

If he speaks nothing but the words of Mujtahids, why is he the ONLY scholar to say such things? Why do we not hear this from the Mujtahid/Marja's? Can you get me a reply from Ayotullah Sistani's office claiming Matami's are CIA agents? ???

How do you claim he is 'one of the greatest' Maullana's in Pakistan? How do you meausure that or is it simply the one who instigates the most fitna is the greatest in your opinion?

The last part of your post is the one I am having most difficulty in understanding... These 'malangs' Azadar/Matami do not follow any part of the Faru??? What the hell is all that about? Can you prove that or have the words of J A Kazmi (nauzobillah) suddenly become Faru for you?

Matami/Azadar do not like what he says because rather then stating Fazail and Musaib of the Aima Masomeen (as) he uses this time to malign the Matami/Azadar as a whole and singles them out as devients. THAT is why he is not liked by certain people. What a wonderful use of the Mimber E Rasool (saws).

The no Namaz/Roza and just 'say Ya Ali' (as) argument is really wearing thin... Namaz/Roza are Wajibat and who ever does not believe in them is not Muslim let alone Azadar. Again, get me proof for this as it seems like a load of tripe laced with ignorance and hearsay.

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

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Your comments perurb me somewhat! I always ask this question and never seem to get a reply, who are 'this group' or 'the malangs' how does one join them? Do they have a members list or is it just the Azadar/Matami in general?

Could you tell me (name names if you have to) who curses Syeds? If someone does then that is wholly wrong so could you provide any proof for this?

If he speaks nothing but the words of Mujtahids, why is he the ONLY scholar to say such things? Why do we not hear this from the Mujtahid/Marja's? Can you get me a reply from Ayotullah Sistani's office claiming Matami's are CIA agents? ???

How do you claim he is 'one of the greatest' Maullana's in Pakistan? How do you meausure that or is it simply the one who instigates the most fitna is the greatest in your opinion?

The last part of your post is the one I am having most difficulty in understanding... These 'malangs' Azadar/Matami do not follow any part of the Faru??? What the hell is all that about? Can you prove that or have the words of J A Kazmi (nauzobillah) suddenly become Faru for you?

Matami/Azadar do not like what he says because rather then stating Fazail and Musaib of the Aima Masomeen (as) he uses this time to malign the Matami/Azadar as a whole and singles them out as devients. THAT is why he is not liked by certain people. What a wonderful use of the Mimber E Rasool (saws).

The no Namaz/Roza and just 'say Ya Ali' (as) argument is really wearing thin... Namaz/Roza are Wajibat and who ever does not believe in them is not Muslim let alone Azadar. Again, get me proof for this as it seems like a load of tripe laced with ignorance and hearsay.

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

Brother, it's not "us" who call that group a 'malang' group. In fact, they always categorize themselves in this name. There's even a facebook page that openly curses at JASK. In the description, it says "for all the malangs who think JASK is......." so my reply was basically to them. As a matter of fact I asked them the same question there. WHAT'S THE REQUIREMENTS OF BEING A MALANG? Matam? Shab Bedaris, Juloos? I do all of these. The namaz/roza that I said...I don't know where you live brother but where I live...there are people and we can't be ignorant of them..they are a threat to Shia Islam !! What do u need a proof of? That there are people like these? Sorry man..can't help u...if you really can't see it then i can't help u !!

And if u read my post clearly..i talked about THOSE people who curse him openly...the 'greatest' maulana was MY OPINION. And nobody can do anything about it. What BASICALLY my point was what you failed to notice...about swearing at an Aalim who is a descendant of the 7th Imam !! He's a Syed !!

and now that you have brought me to the topic...Brother whenever there are two different opinions there is fitna..what can we do about it? You want him to stop saying the truth which YOU CLEARLY said right now too? That No namaz/roza will NOT help? I have heard him many times but never seen him saying that matamis are CIA agents, but i'm pretty sure he didn't say all matamis are CIA agents !! im sure he probably categorized them in some level and if you're really saying that he said something like that then i'm afraid you have to provide some proof !! If he's really against matam as in dead end, then i surely won't stop doing matam because of it. BUT that STILL does NOT give me the right to curse at him and give him death threats !! My whole point, basically !!

Now, the last part...by Fru-e-Din i meant Namaz/Roza....Tawalla/Tabarra. You might say it's wrong of me to say that there are people like that, supposedly 'malangs' (named by them), but we, at least I, have to beware of them. What I do not understand is, who the hell said JASK became a Fru? or where did that even come from? I tried reading my post several times and still couldn't figure out where you got that info from. Listening to Jan Ali or other Aalims is obviously not obligatory but what they say i.e. Read namaz, Perform Roza, is what they gather from the Quran. THAT is what I was talking about. You make me laugh man !!

What you said about the stuff he says from Mimbar and what SHOULD be said..Brother he was probably one of the first Maulanas i have known...he used to read at IRC which was like 10-15 minutes from my place !! and I can tell you for sure that he did a great job in stating fazail and masaib...no idea what you're talking about !! I'm sure you have heard a LOT more majalis of his than I have, and of course, you have heard him criticizing the matami/azadar..but i still don't think this gives anyone the right to openly curse at him !! BTW give me some of his audio/video that he's saying this stuff...i have seen all on youtube and still haven't seen a thing like that !! as a matter of fact, there is a video in which he clearly says that he's not against any type of azadari !! I know it doesn't make him right since anyone can say that, so i'll just need some audio/video !!

"Matami/Azadar do not like what he says because rather then stating Fazail and Musaib of the Aima Masomeen as.gif he uses this time to malign the Matami/Azadar as a whole and singles them out as devients." Either you're trying to say that I'm not a matami/azadar or that I dislike the things Maulana say. Both are incorrect and i'm sure u didn't mean it that way...u meant 'certain matami/azadar' !! See how things can be interpreted wrong, brother? Same is the case with him...again, he is not against matam, azadari, Nara etc etc. If he says that IF at certain times there is an act "BETTER" than matam then we should leave matam and perform that act. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS? People criticizing Maulana Zaki Baqri too that he said nara was like clapping..too much for them he was trying to present an analogy !! While clapping you're appreciating what's been said, but to be like the one appreciated (Aiimma Masumeem) you have to do MUCH, MUCH more !! Same with the nara..you can Praise Imam Ali (A.S.) and for sure, it's in their best interest but it is definitely better to PERFORM ACTIONS like HE adviced. But of course, some brains took it as 'Nara is like clapping'.. Seriously, normally I would laugh at this but this topic is so delicate and important that I feel like crying !!

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I am not making Jan Ali Kazmi higher than any other scholar. I never wrote 'ONLY mawlana' . I wrote 'a mawlana'. Only Allah knows best who is higher than who. But there is a hadeeth that it is ibada to look at the face of a scholar, and we cannot regard our selves at the same level as that. No scholar is perfect or infallible so ofcourse there may be some shortcomings , but we have to respect them hugely as they are doing a great Jihad by spreading message of Ahlul Bayat (alahaysallm).

The way people have been talking about him is shocking to say the least. Just here you can read what people have called him... I dont want to say any names all those who have called him what they have they know who they are, they may be here on shia chat or may not be. But any ones accusing attitude towards such an alim is quite shocking to say the least.

Jan Ali is a brave scholar mashAllah as he is able to talk about some issues which have been in our community but not addressed enough. If some one promotes the idea of prioritising salah over matam, or when its salah time going to salah instead of continuing with matam, thats a pefectly logical and good thing by our deen. Now we know that some people dont do that, dont pray or dont know importance of prayer on time. Aaima (alahaysallm) always regarded prayer superior to other things. their way of girya or azadari is best, so whts wrong in purifying our ways to they way practiced by Aima (alahaysallm) rather than what they have become now (qama zani etc). But some people find such tings 'boring' they just want to hear tabarrah as that is 'exciting' and makes an alim a real one. Result is that in palces like pakistan you can see for you self so many people who are there in juloos but hardly a few praying . I am taking about Shia of Imam Ali (alhasallam).

This is really deploable and shia there have also been criticised for not praying by sunnis, so earning bad reputation. I mean when Imam e Zaman (AF) comes then wont every one pray on right time and not prioritise matam over salah? Isnt it obvious that Iman e Zaman would prioritise some actions which are wajib over any others ( some of them which Aalima alhaysallma didnt even do themselves but which are so common now)?

I have even heard of a girl saying she would go to shaam without hijab as Bibi Zaynab's chadder was taken away from her there. Does this make sense? We cant let sentiments take better of us we have to go back to teaching and practice of Aaima (alahaysallm) in every way whether its wajaibaats, azadari, tabarrah, matam etc only then can we have a true shia life. The schoars are the fountain of that as they have deep knowledge of Aaima (alahasallm) ways and are there to guide us so they are the 'hiers' in that sense . So we should have huge respect for them.

Even if someone dosnt agree with a scholar( which can happen), to say the kind of negative stuff about him as has been said is alone quite sad, leave alone the accusations ..threats ... astagfirullah its hard to imagine ....

Now I wouldnt be surprized if near qimat most people turn against scholars who spread love of Ahlul bayat! Its so deploable how poeple treat our prized alims and behave towards them.

Really may Allah hasten the reappearance of our Imam e Zaman and give us ability to follow him in every way now and then AMeen!

(wasalam)

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Salaams

I sincerely request for people to use their own AKL and not just go on defending JAK because he is a Maulana wearing an Aba and Qaba. I myself request Maulana's but Allah has given me a brain and I have tried and am still trying to gain knowledge so that I can judge which Maulana's are on the right path and those who are not.

Jan Ali Kazmi had no right to send a list of demands so that he could recite in Idara. There is no argument saying that we shouldnt curse him because he is a Syed because someone who does not remain on the right path whether they are Syed or not shouldnt be left alone just because they are descendants of the Imams. We will be held in account by the Imams for not putting him in his place just because of his family. We shouldnt curse his family which I am sure no one has done but where he has gone wrong he must be taken a stand against.

I completely agree that there has been filth put into Shiaism stating not to pray namaz etc. However this is for the destruction of Shiaism so dont you think for those who are trying to destroy the religion they would try and infiltrate from both extreme's. One of these we know about being no namaz etc. What about those who are telling us not to curse the enemies of the Ahlul Bayt and those who class Juloos as muba.

I am not calling anyone agents on either side as I perosnally do not see JAK as an agent nor do I see any matami's as agents however the ideas they are practicing have been brought from outside.

I am completely for trying to change these people towards the true Shiaism. However by slagging them off and targetting them and only speaking of their bad actions are they going to come closer or run further and further away from the religion. The way to change these people is to be close to them so that when you say something they actually think before accepting or disregarding the suggested item. If they are already far away from you then they wont even think about anything you say to them and disregard it almost instantly.

I have a question to ask whcih is that what should we think of a maulana who has recited about Ghusl Janabat on Shaam-e-Ghariba?

Please answer honestly

Wassalaam

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Salaams

I sincerely request for people to use their own AKL and not just go on defending JAK because he is a Maulana wearing an Aba and Qaba. I myself request Maulana's but Allah has given me a brain and I have tried and am still trying to gain knowledge so that I can judge which Maulana's are on the right path and those who are not.

Jan Ali Kazmi had no right to send a list of demands so that he could recite in Idara. There is no argument saying that we shouldnt curse him because he is a Syed because someone who does not remain on the right path whether they are Syed or not shouldnt be left alone just because they are descendants of the Imams. We will be held in account by the Imams for not putting him in his place just because of his family. We shouldnt curse his family which I am sure no one has done but where he has gone wrong he must be taken a stand against.

I completely agree that there has been filth put into Shiaism stating not to pray namaz etc. However this is for the destruction of Shiaism so dont you think for those who are trying to destroy the religion they would try and infiltrate from both extreme's. One of these we know about being no namaz etc. What about those who are telling us not to curse the enemies of the Ahlul Bayt and those who class Juloos as muba.

I am not calling anyone agents on either side as I perosnally do not see JAK as an agent nor do I see any matami's as agents however the ideas they are practicing have been brought from outside.

I am completely for trying to change these people towards the true Shiaism. However by slagging them off and targetting them and only speaking of their bad actions are they going to come closer or run further and further away from the religion. The way to change these people is to be close to them so that when you say something they actually think before accepting or disregarding the suggested item. If they are already far away from you then they wont even think about anything you say to them and disregard it almost instantly.

I have a question to ask whcih is that what should we think of a maulana who has recited about Ghusl Janabat on Shaam-e-Ghariba?

Please answer honestly

Wassalaam

I dont know about the majalis or indeed the context. However proof needs to be supplied before allegations are made. Again not defending these circumstances. But very often maulanas can recite innapropriate things which may puzzle the general population however they maybe targetted at an individual who has trnsgressed.

I remember one Ramadhan a community member tried to 'rape' his wife whilst she was fasting. When she resisted he beat her black and blue. Regardless to say drugs addiction was a compounding aspect.

Though this didnt happen because it was all hushed up. If a maulana heard about this asnd was due to recite the following day I can imagine him mounting the mimbar and talking about rape and whatever no matter how innapropriate it is.

The general population would be unaware and think the maulana had lost it. However the guilty party would know.

so lets not condemn without thinking why that topic has been touched upon.

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I dont know about the majalis or indeed the context. However proof needs to be supplied before allegations are made. Again not defending these circumstances. But very often maulanas can recite innapropriate things which may puzzle the general population however they maybe targetted at an individual who has trnsgressed.

I remember one Ramadhan a community member tried to 'rape' his wife whilst she was fasting. When she resisted he beat her black and blue. Regardless to say drugs addiction was a compounding aspect.

Though this didnt happen because it was all hushed up. If a maulana heard about this asnd was due to recite the following day I can imagine him mounting the mimbar and talking about rape and whatever no matter how innapropriate it is.

The general population would be unaware and think the maulana had lost it. However the guilty party would know.

so lets not condemn without thinking why that topic has been touched upon.

For once I find myself in agreement with you here, although I would like to ask, how many times did the Maullana bring up the topic of 'rape'? Was it in every other Majlis for years and years or just the one Majlis?

Also, I would like to know why he only singles out Matamis for not reading Namaaz? I am sure 100% of the balig male Shia population does not attend Namaz prayers yet I never hear anything about the silent masses from him.

I am not for a second claiming total moral highground but there does seem to be issues with J A Kazmi that no other Maullana has. I am sure that is not just due to his alleged 'bravery' too.

Ya Ali (as) Madad.

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Salaams

On Shaam Ghariba to recite Ghusl Janabat? Im not too sure they should be a reason to recite this. On Shaam Ghariba there is usually only masaib.

In my eyes I understand True Sunni's point of view but Shaam Ghariba is different to the days of Ramadhan and whatever the situation no one is in the state of mind to hear these sorts of things and it is very lucky those who sat in the majlis and disagreed with what he was reciting did not get angry and do anything stupid. But they walked out without causing trouble on such a sad night.

I also know of 4 people who had gone to listen to masaib and when asking why this topic was chosen the volunteers defended it saying that this is part of our religion too and has too be mentioned.

Id also like to add that I am very glad Syed Mohsin that although you are defending JAK you are using your AKL and not defending him blindly as well as acknowledging where he has gone wrong.

Wassalaam

Edited by BULB

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Salam,

My mom said I dont have any akl :'( :P

I propose that this thread be closed. I think everything has been discussed and to avoid any dissing of anyone I feel this thread can be closed. If there are any more queries please try to contact Maulana himself. What do you all say?

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Salaam, again not referring to Maulana JAK . I have asked this question of a Maulana who I felt had veered onto inaproprite topics during a Majalis.

His defence was that very often the comment or discussion is targetted to an individual . The transgression mentioned is very often just the tip of the iceberg. It is serious enough that it cannot be ignored. In addition it is being said on the Mimbar because the individula concerned will not appear until the following Moharram, or indeed will not recieve the information given 1 to1 graciously.

I agreed with his sentiments but he persisted . He said as a maulana if he didnt highlight the issue that person would continue to transgress for another year. I had no reply to this.

salaam

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Salam

Ya Ali Madad

I also heard that on 10th muharam last year or year b4.. he was crying about jesus instead of imam hussain (as) :|:|:|... IN A CHURCH!!!!

GEO MALANGO MOMINO

MARO WAHABIO MUNAFIQO

HAQ HAIDERRR

YA ALI MADAD

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Salaam, again not referring to Maulana JAK . I have asked this question of a Maulana who I felt had veered onto inaproprite topics during a Majalis.

His defence was that very often the comment or discussion is targetted to an individual . The transgression mentioned is very often just the tip of the iceberg. It is serious enough that it cannot be ignored. In addition it is being said on the Mimbar because the individula concerned will not appear until the following Moharram, or indeed will not recieve the information given 1 to1 graciously.

I agreed with his sentiments but he persisted . He said as a maulana if he didnt highlight the issue that person would continue to transgress for another year. I had no reply to this.

salaam

we live in the 21st century. maybe he should learn to get someones freakin email or mobile number so they CAN talk about it.

god almighty arent there ENOUGH fazail of the masomeen that maulvis and fake-maulvis have to resort to these topics on the mimbar? relate some fazail, read a masayib, eat ur niaz in the maulvi room (cos we cant have you mixing with the commoners oh no) and get lost home man! stop trying to stir up a revolution!

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I m not sure why Mawlana Jan Ali Kazmi is being judged in such an extreme light. Its one thing not to agree with some one but its quite another level of using inapproporiate langage and resorting to threats and abuses. I cant imagine the attitude of momineen to curse any other momineen leave alone a scholar. We are supposed to give benefit of doubt to even each other rather than be so judgemental about an Aalim just because we may not have understood some of his actions/ speeches or disagreed with their context in the light of our limited knowledge. There are somethings we should either clear up with the person in question especially when its as high ranking as an aalim rather than backbite or threaten him and legitimise all this as this is against practice of Masomeen (alahaysallam) and more like 'gangster' pactices.

Personally I think what he said in that majlis was just so true and correct. I also like the fact that it was in public to no one thought there are any closed door deals. I think according to circumstances he did the right thing and made right demands as his life was being threatened. Astagfirullah, to even imagine some people making threats and curses to an aalim is unbelivable!

Even when Iman Hussain and Imam Hassan (alahaysallam) saw a sahabi of Prophet (S.A.W) was doing wudhu wrongly they didnt tell him off on his face. Rather they said to each other demonstrating it and the sahabi got the message indirectly. This was because they didnt want to embarass the sahabi as he was older than them and they were kids. But they were still Imams , knew they were 100% right and they could have upper hand and yet they dealth with it in the most subtle of ways. Not abusive language, or saying that sahabis all prayers wont be accepted with the wrong wudhu or being judegmental.

In case of JAK we have to exercise caution as we are at lower level of knowledge than him so we cant just treat him as we would other momeneen ( and we should treat all momineen in the best of ways as per practice of Aima (alahaysallam)).

Its best as some one mentioned on this thread to have a meeting arranged with him in a peaceful and harmonious way and then ask all questions which have been put here many of which are gossip and allegations.To make such towards an Aalim or a scholar is inappropriate and could even be sinful. So as he himself said that the way through dialogue is best , you produce your aya/hadeeth/waqiyah from practices of Masommen (alahysallm) to make your case and he will produce his. In the end if you still disagree then pray Allah guides evey one to right path inshAllah and leave it to Him the Master of Universe to make judement.

Allah knows best and He is the best judge of all our actions and all of his actions/words. So it dosnt suit momineen to attack him or curse him as this could be seen as an action much disliked by Allah and Masomeen (alahasallm) as its regarding a man who really wants to speads true message and has true love of Masomeen (alahaysallm).

May Allah guide us all towards His path Ameen

(wasalam)

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(wasalam) sister how are you?

i find it very interesting that people like yourself mention the fact that, for example:

(bismillah)

(salam)

I cant imagine the attitude of momineen to curse any other momineen leave alone a scholar. We are supposed to give benefit of doubt to even each other rather than be so judgemental about an Aalim just because we may not have understood some of his actions/ speeches or disagreed with their context in the light of our limited knowledge.

surely this applies in reverse, with jaani german himself? he things that zanjeer zani is for tableegh and not gham e hussain, how can he speak with any authority when he doesnt even know the basics?

and when has he given matami the benefit of the doubt that their intentions are right, and left them alone?

and why do it in front of sunni tv shows thats going to be shown to a majority sunni audience?

all this rubbish he talks about "unity", why doesnt he start with unity between shias? how about talking about supporting zanjeer zans any way you can, whether you agree with them or not because they are your shia brothers and they are doing it out of love for imam hussain, if you can, give them first aid. if you cant do that then at least offer them water or some food, if not that then at least give a DUA for them!

but no. lets all run after the sunnis trying to impress them and put our own people down.

There are somethings we should either clear up with the person in question especially when its as high ranking as an aalim rather than backbite or threaten him and legitimise all this as this is against practice of Masomeen (alahaysallam) and more like 'gangster' pactices.

Personally I think what he said in that majlis was just so true and correct. I also like the fact that it was in public to no one thought there are any closed door deals. I think according to circumstances he did the right thing and made right demands as his life was being threatened. Astagfirullah, to even imagine some people making threats and curses to an aalim is unbelivable!

sister remove this thought from your head that he is an aalim. he is no alim, he is a zakir. a glorified one, but a zakir nontheless.

in a way he is more "gangster" then matami, since he abuses the power of the mimbar to serve his own interests. this is what gangsters do.

....Not abusive language, or saying that sahabis all prayers wont be accepted with the wrong wudhu or being judegmental.

sister again, jaani german would do well to take this advice himself. he calls people wearing karay "jahaliyyat", he says we do hindu practices and god knows what else. yet no one speaks up against that, because matami are just the butt of everyones jokes right? who cares who insults us.

In case of JAK we have to exercise caution as we are at lower level of knowledge than him so we cant just treat him as we would other momeneen ( and we should treat all momineen in the best of ways as per practice of Aima (alahaysallam)).

i would treat him with respect, its a no brainer. however he is a liar, a fraud and an abuser of his rights while on the mimbar. for that he does not deserve respect any more. a zakirs role is SOLEY fazail/ masayyib of the ahlebeyt. he has no position or authority to impose his beliefs on anyone or anything.

Its best as some one mentioned on this thread to have a meeting arranged with him in a peaceful and harmonious way and then ask all questions which have been put here many of which are gossip and allegations.To make such towards an Aalim or a scholar is inappropriate and could even be sinful. So as he himself said that the way through dialogue is best , you produce your aya/hadeeth/waqiyah from practices of Masommen (alahysallm) to make your case and he will produce his. In the end if you still disagree then pray Allah guides evey one to right path inshAllah and leave it to Him the Master of Universe to make judement.

sister, if you find me his number, PM me, i guarantee i will contact him myself, and i will speak with him, and i will share everything with this forum. my word of honour upon this. having heard his arguments for a few years now i am convinced that even tho i am pretty much deficient in all forms of knowledge...i still have more than him.

Allah knows best and He is the best judge of all our actions and all of his actions/words. So it dosnt suit momineen to attack him or curse him as this could be seen as an action much disliked by Allah and Masomeen (alahasallm) as its regarding a man who really wants to speads true message and has true love of Masomeen (alahaysallm).

May Allah guide us all towards His path Ameen

(wasalam)

maybe jaani german should have thought of that before he started this little revolution then.

i hope i havent offended you, that wasnt my intention.

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we live in the 21st century. maybe he should learn to get someones freakin email or mobile number so they CAN talk about it.

god almighty arent there ENOUGH fazail of the masomeen that maulvis and fake-maulvis have to resort to these topics on the mimbar? relate some fazail, read a masayib, eat ur niaz in the maulvi room (cos we cant have you mixing with the commoners oh no) and get lost home man! stop trying to stir up a revolution!

maybe these 'freakin' individuals dont want to hear about their transgressions because they are 10 day shia. Islam is a revolution that is the responsibility for everyone to uphold that.

i am surprised that someone like you (and i mean it seriously) would want majalis to be just limited to fazail and masail. The day our sermons are just limited to fazail and masail will be the eath of Islam. It is essential the message taht is embodied in the masial and fasial is transmitted and its application to todays problems is discussed.

salaam

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maybe these 'freakin' individuals dont want to hear about their transgressions because they are 10 day shia. Islam is a revolution that is the responsibility for everyone to uphold that.

i am surprised that someone like you (and i mean it seriously) would want majalis to be just limited to fazail and masail. The day our sermons are just limited to fazail and masail will be the eath of Islam. It is essential the message taht is embodied in the masial and fasial is transmitted and its application to todays problems is discussed.

salaam

well....surely the islamic perspective is to give those individuals the benefit of the doubt and not talk bad about them?

i think theres a limit to speaking about these things from the mimbar, and more specifically WHO does the speaking. he is a zakir, its not his PLACE to "fight the good fight" or whatever it is he wants to do. leave that to the scholars who actually know their arses from their elbows.

however ive been a distant observer of JAKs majalis for many years now, i even remember the first time he came to 404, way back in the mid 90's, he relates few fazail and speaks more about things which interest him. like sex, women and mallang-bashing lol.

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Wait wait wait sorry to interupt your discussing but if you just want someone to recite fazail and masaib, hire a story teller. A job of anyone who comes onto the minbar is to present to us Islam, that means everything, unles you obviously believe Islam does nto equal everything. First of all you should no better then to call him names such as jaani german. Secondly, just because you dont agree with him and his methods are not the greatest does not mean he is not an aalim. We all agree he did somethings which were wrong but it is going on another level to insult or degrade him. If this is your akhlaq and this is what you want to do then may Allah help us all.

well....surely the islamic perspective is to give those individuals the benefit of the doubt and not talk bad about them?

i think theres a limit to speaking about these things from the mimbar, and more specifically WHO does the speaking. he is a zakir, its not his PLACE to "fight the good fight" or whatever it is he wants to do. leave that to the scholars who actually know their arses from their elbows.

however ive been a distant observer of JAKs majalis for many years now, i even remember the first time he came to 404, way back in the mid 90's, he relates few fazail and speaks more about things which interest him. like sex, women and mallang-bashing lol.

define and explain who a zakir is, who an alaim is. thank you.

May Allah guide us all. Brother, tell me, is it not important for everyone to know thier obligations and how to carry them out. If no maulana speaks of these things, which are inside Islam, then hardly anyone would be following it correctly.

Edited by SyedMohsin

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brother a zakir IS a "story teller", of sorts. he is an unqualified man, a poet, someone who recites poetry and qaseedas in fazail of the ahlebeyt. they do not have sufficient knowledge to be able to speak about islamic issues but they are respected and treated well. JAK was well known for his dua kumayls, but as his fame grew he somehow wrapped himself in the stolen abakaba of scholars and presented himself as more than a fanous recitor of dua kumayl.

an aalim is someone who has QUALIFIED after years of study at a recognised hawza ilmiyya such as najaf or qum, and who has been granted the authority to call himself a scholar, or "maulana" by his teachers upon graduation.

scholars - alims - have every right to discuss these things. and if you notice i have never insulted any qualified scholar no matter what their views (dhakko doesnt count).

im sorry for calling him jaani german, i will stick to JAK.

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Salam to all Believers and followers of Prophet Muhammad (saw)

All those people who cursed mawlan Jan Ali Shah Kazmi and used abusive language and also said horrible and disgracefull things to him in Idara Jafriya must keep in mind that they have actually cursed and used abusive langauge for a descendant of Imam Musa Kazim (as)

What about HIS use of disgraceful language what about when he keeps using B*****D ON the mimbar. Why does that not shock you or is it OK for him to do so because he is an 'ALLEGED SCHOLAR'.

He once again in Babul Murad on saturday night accused people in Karachi of taking bottlesof blood from the slaughtered goat with them when they returned home as tabarruk.

What about these OUTRAGEOUS claims he makes where is the PROOF why does not anyone question his sources?

He also CLAIMED that this muharram on the 7th in London Hazrat Qasims (as) walimah was celebrated. What a load of B*******. What the **** is he on and before you ask I WAS there and heard it firsthand.

Had i been a man i would have got up and protested at this.

It is exactly these types of AALIMS who will have their heads cut off by the 12th IMAM(as) as they had gone astray and leading the followers astray aswell.

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well....surely the islamic perspective is to give those individuals the benefit of the doubt and not talk bad about them?

i think theres a limit to speaking about these things from the mimbar, and more specifically WHO does the speaking. he is a zakir, its not his PLACE to "fight the good fight" or whatever it is he wants to do. leave that to the scholars who actually know their arses from their elbows.

however ive been a distant observer of JAKs majalis for many years now, i even remember the first time he came to 404, way back in the mid 90's, he relates few fazail and speaks more about things which interest him. like sex, women and mallang-bashing lol.

The majalis is an open one to the general public. The benefit of the doubt is accorded because it is not openly directed to an individual. However from the maulanas point of view this person will not appear gain for the next 350 days so he has to make sure he gets the message.

Having said that if the individual attends the istitution for 355 days of the year but still wont listen to you on a 1:1 basis then you have no choice but to tackle it from the mimbar.

As to the point of Ghusl Jannabat. If the individual is reading salaat without Ghusl obviously his salaat is invalid. If a maulana knowingly leaves him in this state of ignorance surely the maulana will share some of the blame.

From your point of view Maulana JAK is not an alim, but it appears from the audience he commands that your opinion is in the minority.

Therefore from the majority point of view he is qualified to read and is a scholar.

salaam

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From your point of view Maulana JAK is not an alim, but it appears from the audience he commands that your opinion is in the minority.

Therefore from the majority point of view he is qualified to read and is a scholar.

salaam

sorry cant reply properly...but me being minority doesnt change the truth.

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brother a zakir IS a "story teller", of sorts. he is an unqualified man, a poet, someone who recites poetry and qaseedas in fazail of the ahlebeyt. they do not have sufficient knowledge to be able to speak about islamic issues but they are respected and treated well. JAK was well known for his dua kumayls, but as his fame grew he somehow wrapped himself in the stolen abakaba of scholars and presented himself as more than a fanous recitor of dua kumayl.

an aalim is someone who has QUALIFIED after years of study at a recognised hawza ilmiyya such as najaf or qum, and who has been granted the authority to call himself a scholar, or "maulana" by his teachers upon graduation.

scholars - alims - have every right to discuss these things. and if you notice i have never insulted any qualified scholar no matter what their views (dhakko doesnt count).

im sorry for calling him jaani german, i will stick to JAK.

What is your proof that he has not studied in qum..

You do realize MAulana JAK has studied in Qum and so are all his sons.......

What about HIS use of disgraceful language what about when he keeps using B*****D ON the mimbar.

100% He should not have said that.

Why does that not shock you or is it OK for him to do so because he is an 'ALLEGED SCHOLAR'.

Prove he did not study in Qum.

He once again in Babul Murad on saturday night accused people in Karachi of taking bottlesof blood from the slaughtered goat with them when they returned home as tabarruk.

What about these OUTRAGEOUS claims he makes where is the PROOF why does not anyone question his sources?

Did you? Did you ask him what his sources for this information are, did you ask him what prrof he has?

He also CLAIMED that this muharram on the 7th in London Hazrat Qasims (as) walimah was celebrated. What a load of B*******. What the **** is he on and before you ask I WAS there and heard it firsthand.

Had i been a man i would have got up and protested at this.

A man is not someone who stands up in the middle of the majalis and stops it. A man is someone who goes to the Maulana and talks to him about his claims and sources.

It is exactly these types of AALIMS who will have their heads cut off by the 12th IMAM(as) as they had gone astray and leading the followers astray aswell.

No one knows whos head will be cut off when the Imam comes back. However you better get ready for when the Imam says to you...Who gave you the right to judge whos head I will cut of....

May Allah forgive us all. I completely understand the ehtiram of the minbar and how he should not have used an offensive term such as the b word.

However I speak to you as a brother, your language is vulgar, if you dont want to change the negativity inside you do not polute the air with around you by swearing. Would you swear if the Prophet or the Imam himself was infront of you? There is no place other then Allah so how could you even think about using that language?

Edited by SyedMohsin

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brother the question isnt whether hes spent time in qom or not, its what he studied, who under, for how long and IS HE QUALIFIED AND GRADUATED.

he claims he is a scholar. its up 2 him to prove it. until then, he is a glorified zakir.

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(wasalam) sister how are you?

i find it very interesting that people like yourself mention the fact that, for example:

surely this applies in reverse, with jaani german himself? he things that zanjeer zani is for tableegh and not gham e hussain, how can he speak with any authority when he doesnt even know the basics?

and when has he given matami the benefit of the doubt that their intentions are right, and left them alone?

and why do it in front of sunni tv shows thats going to be shown to a majority sunni audience?

all this rubbish he talks about "unity", why doesnt he start with unity between shias? how about talking about supporting zanjeer zans any way you can, whether you agree with them or not because they are your shia brothers and they are doing it out of love for imam hussain, if you can, give them first aid. if you cant do that then at least offer them water or some food, if not that then at least give a DUA for them!

but no. lets all run after the sunnis trying to impress them and put our own people down.

sister remove this thought from your head that he is an aalim. he is no alim, he is a zakir. a glorified one, but a zakir nontheless.

in a way he is more "gangster" then matami, since he abuses the power of the mimbar to serve his own interests. this is what gangsters do.

sister again, jaani german would do well to take this advice himself. he calls people wearing karay "jahaliyyat", he says we do hindu practices and god knows what else. yet no one speaks up against that, because matami are just the butt of everyones jokes right? who cares who insults us.

i would treat him with respect, its a no brainer. however he is a liar, a fraud and an abuser of his rights while on the mimbar. for that he does not deserve respect any more. a zakirs role is SOLEY fazail/ masayyib of the ahlebeyt. he has no position or authority to impose his beliefs on anyone or anything.

sister, if you find me his number, PM me, i guarantee i will contact him myself, and i will speak with him, and i will share everything with this forum. my word of honour upon this. having heard his arguments for a few years now i am convinced that even tho i am pretty much deficient in all forms of knowledge...i still have more than him.

maybe jaani german should have thought of that before he started this little revolution then.

i hope i havent offended you, that wasnt my intention.

What about HIS use of disgraceful language what about when he keeps using B*****D ON the mimbar. Why does that not shock you or is it OK for him to do so because he is an 'ALLEGED SCHOLAR'.

He once again in Babul Murad on saturday night accused people in Karachi of taking bottlesof blood from the slaughtered goat with them when they returned home as tabarruk.

What about these OUTRAGEOUS claims he makes where is the PROOF why does not anyone question his sources?

He also CLAIMED that this muharram on the 7th in London Hazrat Qasims (as) walimah was celebrated. What a load of B*******. What the **** is he on and before you ask I WAS there and heard it firsthand.

Had i been a man i would have got up and protested at this.

It is exactly these types of AALIMS who will have their heads cut off by the 12th IMAM(as) as they had gone astray and leading the followers astray aswell.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Brother Molla dha malang i m alhamdulillah well. Hope you are well too inshAllah.

Brother I still have huge respect for Jan Ali Kazmi and I have heard him aside from the Moharram lectures on other topics and I do believe that he has a good insight into spritual guidance and my self and those who I know benefit greatly from that. i also belive he has very good intentions n he eanestly wants people to follow the orinignal path of Alah ul Bayat (alahaysallm). But he does do a great deal of good wheather you call him a 'zakir' or 'alim' , I will have huge respect for him nonetheless. Yes he isnt perfect but than none of us are. Aalims learn too and are constantly striving to improve their knowledge and practices.

What I am most sadenned about is that any disageement with him does not warrent abuse, curse, threats. that behaviour is just unacceptable in any civilised society leave alone among momineen. The other brother Gullam e Panjataan makes some very harsh and rude remarks, all I can say is astagfirullah- it really is beyond my imagination what I am reading here!

You say that Jan Ali Kazmi doesnt do that which I gave an example of. Ok if for argument sake I take him as same level as us ( even though i belive hes above us due to his Iilm and his love and effort to spread message of Alhul Bayat (alahaysallam)), even then the attitude from people on this thread is nothing like what should be from momineen towards another. If you think hes not giving others benefit of doubt then at least it shoudnt mean every one gives him a worse deal by all those threats and trying to sort him out- thats just not justifiable. Even if you think you are right the attitude seems to me to be far from the very subtle, forgiving, rather than so harsh as it has been.

You may acknowlegde that over the years our practices in sub continent have taken on various beliefs of other faiths which was never part of the oringinal practice of Aaima (alahaysallm). Indeed their practice was the best for us to emulate but as time went on people added things to practices which then became permanent. Weather its compulsory dowry from girls side in case of marriage, forced mariages, types practices of azadai, our attitude and akhlaq with other momineen( which is pretty bad now) etc its all become extremely messed up if you like and gone way far from what our pure Islam taught us. Loads of time people's intention is good but practices are not so in line with the way of Masoomeen (alahasysallm)'s way. So, sure Allah is the best jugde but at least some one can question how come there are new practices in our faith which may be allowed but which masommen (alahsysallm) did not do themselves.

Thats an imminent problem with in our communities and you will understand its no easy task to deal with such sensitive and complex issues. Those who dare question any thing are labelled as going back on them and 'wahabist' or 'westernized' though they are just going back to purify us to practice of Aaimma (alahysallam). I m just thinking out a loud,you may disagree with some of what I am saying but you cannot deny that as a community we are not living our lives in many ways Masomeen(alahysallam) lived or what they taught people to practice and prioritise. I dont think its soley with way of azadari but akhlaq, wajibaat, segregation issues (say in weddings) etc and much much more.

JAK being on member not every one has to agree with him and ofcourse no one has right to judge any ones intentions but its just mentioning some issues can be important inorder to purify our practices. It could have been in a better way you could argue but not go to an extreme in the words that have been used.

I do think that a lot of stuff he has been called is quite harsh and WAllah i leave it to Him to judge as it is beyond me. But looking at ourselves as a community we have to truthfully ask if we are really follwing the way and practice of Aaima (alahaysallm). How would they have dealth with this issue at hand? Cusing, bad languge, threats, extreme judgements are not the way of Masomeen (alahaysallm) - Their way is the best, pure and most merciful. I think we need to go back esp in even an atom of the good ness of the love of ahlul Bayat an Aalim/zakir/schoa has- Allah has a high level for them and only He or His Masommen ( alahay sallam) can know of , and we may err in a big way if we audaciously say something so big as accusing an Allim or zakir.

' And those who remain patient, seeking their Lord's Countenance, perform As-salat and spend out of that which Allah have bestowed on them, secretely and openly and defend evil with good, such there is a good end (Q13:22)

May Allah hasten us to do all the above AMEEN.

If some one can arrange meeting with him that would be much good, or I will try ask my friend if some thing can be arranged with JAK inshAllah lets see.

(wasalam)

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Every discussion on religion has always led to this, however, after many countless years trying to put sense in to people, i have come to the conclusion that these uneducated scum are the true munafiq of shiaism, who use uncivilised ways to live their lives. They ahve no respect, no manners for others, no even for themselves. Therefore it is a waste of time trying to educate these janglis, let them astray, and let them face the truth on the day of judgement.

PS as you send laanat on people you dont like (eg JAK), we are civilised and do not retaliate, why? because we do not see the point of stooping to a level as low as yours, we have dignity, im sure we could all send a few laanats on that saddah guy n hassan abid

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GHULAM - lol why do u attend jak majlises if u hate him so much....im sooo shocked u go!!!

Imam zain ul abideen was known for being the 'adornment of the worshippers' and the 'chief of those who do sajda'....he used to tremble before praying salat and turn pale when doing wudhoo....despite being an infallible....he spent all his time praying and doing tableegh through writing supplications....a hindu became a shia by doing a phd on the sahifa sajjadiya....we need to focus on the ilm of our imam eg his treatise on rights, dua makhrimal akhlaq, his speeches, his ahadith, his duas etc....this was the man who gave food to the poor in the middle of the night with his face disguised....his most famous hadith being that he would forgive his fathers killer....thats wat makes him IMAM....thers more to him then being sick in karbala and being chained....yes we should cry for his losses and remember his grief/pain/torture but we need to focus on other aspects of this imams life too ie how he worshipped god and wat he taught us about islam and the path of the ahlulbayt....if we fail to do this we are the ones who are truely missing out

i have karrey....but if we truely want to follow his sunnat should we not attempt to pray the way he did and display the akhlaq he did? we could never even meet a fraction....but we can try to please him by praying etc

i hope i have not offended anyone

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Every discussion on religion has always led to this, however, after many countless years trying to put sense in to people, i have come to the conclusion that these uneducated scum are the true munafiq of shiaism, who use uncivilised ways to live their lives. They ahve no respect, no manners for others, no even for themselves. Therefore it is a waste of time trying to educate these janglis, let them astray, and let them face the truth on the day of judgement.

PS as you send laanat on people you dont like (eg JAK), we are civilised and do not retaliate, why? because we do not see the point of stooping to a level as low as yours, we have dignity, im sure we could all send a few laanats on that saddah guy n hassan abid

and ur any better than these janglies? naming people U dont like?

JAK has proved himself to be a troublemaker in Islam.. He sits on the mimbar and talks about stuff HE wants without backin up his points.. during muharam fazail and masaib should be read on Ahlulbayt.. not on himself, not on jesus and nefin like that.. and he shouldnt be sittin on mimbar-e-rasool and gunnin people that do more azadari den he ever has (which is proved from his shti chattin on the mimbar)... every culture has their own lifestyle and their own way of ibadat.. Majalises make sense, jaloos make sense, matam and zanjeer make sense.. but JAK shias dont realise that causing trouble from mimbar-e-rasool doesnt promote islam but make people think bad of it

GEO MALANGO KHUSH RAHO SALAMAT RAHO

MARO MUNAFIQO

haq haider

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I was showing how i could name, and im sure you yourself have never seen anyone retaliate to the laanats on JAK and other scholars, i was showing you a way people could react.

I think people are misinterpreting the message given by JAK, be that by misunderstanding him or by pure ignorance. You should understand that in Muharram you have a large audience of people, therefore it also the duty of Islam to spread the religion, as much as it is to remember Karbala. As there is a large turnout, JAK uses the opportunity to educate people on Islam, just cos he doesnt make u scream and shout and act like animals doesnt mean hes not saying anything useful.

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