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In the Name of God بسم الله

Velayat-e faqih

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(bismillah)

I dont do Taqleed? what you mean Is, I dont blindly follow anyone. And lets stick to the subject.

yes , we know you dont eat the medicine prescribed by the doctor, blindly

whenever u need medicine you first go and research about the disease then u research about its cure then you research on its formula and then research on the material and quality of the medicine and then you make it by yourself and then you take it

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(bismillah)

I was curious to find out what the concept of "Velayat-e faqih " is in the eyes of previous Ayatollah like Qasim al Khoei, isit true that he opposed this? is there any proof of this? also what Are the rullings of this from other marjas across the world?

AFAIK, Ayatullah al-Khoei did believed in Wilayat al-Faqih but not Wilayat al Faqih Mutlaqa i.e Absolute authority of the faqih.

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ÓÄÇá 6: åá ÊÑì ÓãÇÍÊßã æáÇíÉ ÇáÝÞíå ÇáãØáÞÉ Ãã áÇ¿

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ÇáÊÈÑíÒí: ÇáÐí äÞæá Èå åæ ËÈæÊ ÇáæáÇíÉ ááÝÞíå ÇáÌÇãÚ ááÔÑÇÆØ Ýí ÇáÃãæÑ ÇáÍÓÈíÉ ÈÇáãÚäì ÇáÐí ÃÔÑäÇ Åáíå Ýí ÌæÇÈ ÇáÓÄÇá ÇáÃæá ßãÇ Ãä áå ÇáÞÖÇÁ Ýí ÇáãÑÇÝÚÇÊ æÝÕá ÇáÎÕæãÇÊ

Ref: http://eram.shirazu.ac.ir/www2/CD1/www.tab...sirat/1/bew.htm

w/s

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yes , we know you dont eat the medicine prescribed by the doctor, blindly

whenever u need medicine you first go and research about the disease then u research about its cure then you research on its formula and then research on the material and quality of the medicine and then you make it by yourself and then you take it

The common Usooli medicine/doctor example is not accurate for how some hardcore "Usoolis" view the issue of Taqleed to a Marja. I've read and been told by certain "Usoolis" that you are to pick one specific Marja, say for Grand Ayatullah Sistani(ha), Grand Ayatullah Fadlallah, Grand Ayatullah Khamenei(ha), etc.; and you are to then blindly follow every fatwa or ruling they give. We recognize in the world of medicine that certain doctors and professionals have certain areas of expertise; maybe "Doctor A" specializes in heart issues; whereas "Doctor B" specializes in "Ears, Nose, and throat" (ENT) issues. So scholars would as fallible human beings have areas of strength and weakness, one Marja would be better then another at one area of Islamic law and vis-a-versus. Also how are you to know who is the "most knowledgable" Marja?! Can you actually tell me with 100% certainty that Sayyed Sistani(ha) is more knowledgable about the Deen of al-Islam then Sayyed Khamenei(ha) or Sayyed Fadlallah? Or in the past can you say honestly say you know who was the more knowledgable Marja and scholar Sayyed al-Khoe'i(ra) or Sayyed Ruhollah Khomeini(ra)?

Also the Akhbari position in Twelver Shi'a Islam says that we should only do certain actions like pay the Khums tax, have Salaat al-Jummah, go out on religious mandated Jihad (different then self-defense which is a natural human right permitted in Islam but not the same as the Holy edict of Jihad in al-Islam), etc. when commanded by a Masoom Imam(as). Today, our Masoom Holy Imam is Imam al-Mahdi(as) who is in Occultation (Ghaybah). During the Occultation (Ghayba) we are not to make demi-Mahdi's for ourselves! Some Usoolis believe a fallible human scholar is allegedly our "stand-in" for Imam(as) during his Ghayba! They allege we are to give Khums (which belong only to the Imam(as) to a fallible non-Masoom human scholar! Same goes with Salat al-Jummah, calling for Jihad (different then just natural self-defense that doesn't need the Masoom's edict of Jihad under Islamic Shari'ah), etc. Many of the great scholars of the past and most Shi'a Muslims in general were Akhbaris, before Wahid Behbahani and his people took over Karbala after the 1760s C.E.

Of the Shi'a Muslim Ulama of the past who were clear Akhbaris were Shaykh Muhammad Ya'qub Kulayni(ra) the compiler of "Kitab al-Kafi", Shaykh Hurr al-Amili(ra) who compiled the book "Wasail al-Shia", and tons of others.

Ya Ali(as) Madad!

Edited by Abdul-Rahman Brent
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The common Usooli medicine/doctor example is not accurate for how some hardcore "Usoolis" view the issue of Taqleed to a Marja. I've read and been told by certain "Usoolis" that you are to pick one specific Marja, say for Grand Ayatullah Sistani(ha), Grand Ayatullah Fadlallah, Grand Ayatullah Khamenei(ha), etc.; and you are to then blindly follow every fatwa or ruling they give. We recognize in the world of medicine that certain doctors and professionals have certain areas of expertise; maybe "Doctor A" specializes in heart issues; whereas "Doctor B" specializes in "Ears, Nose, and throat" (ENT) issues. So scholars would as fallible human beings have areas of strength and weakness, one Marja would be better then another at one area of Islamic law and vis-a-versus. Also how are you to know who is the "most knowledgable" Marja?! Can you actually tell me with 100% certainty that Sayyed Sistani(ha) is more knowledgable about the Deen of al-Islam then Sayyed Khamenei(ha) or Sayyed Fadlallah? Or in the past can you say honestly say you know who was the more knowledgable Marja and scholar Sayyed al-Khoe'i(ra) or Sayyed Ruhollah Khomeini(ra)?

Also the Akhbari position in Twelver Shi'a Islam says that we should only do certain actions like pay the Khums tax, have Salaat al-Jummah, go out on religious mandated Jihad (different then self-defense which is a natural human right permitted in Islam but not the same as the Holy edict of Jihad in al-Islam), etc. when commanded by a Masoom Imam(as). Today, our Masoom Holy Imam is Imam al-Mahdi(as) who is in Occultation (Ghaybah). During the Occultation (Ghayba) we are not to make demi-Mahdi's for ourselves! Some Usoolis believe a fallible human scholar is allegedly our "stand-in" for Imam(as) during his Ghayba! They allege we are to give Khums (which belong only to the Imam(as) to a fallible non-Masoom human scholar! Same goes with Salat al-Jummah, calling for Jihad (different then just natural self-defense that doesn't need the Masoom's edict of Jihad under Islamic Shari'ah), etc. Many of the great scholars of the past and most Shi'a Muslims in general were Akhbaris, before Wahid Behbahani and his people took over Karbala after the 1760s C.E.

Of the Shi'a Muslim Ulama of the past who were clear Akhbaris were Shaykh Muhammad Ya'qub Kulayni(ra) the compiler of "Kitab al-Kafi", Shaykh Hurr al-Amili(ra) who compiled the book "Wasail al-Shia", and tons of others.

Ya Ali(as) Madad!

Good reply.

Who Opposes Velayat Faghih?ý

They call me, and others like me, anti-Velayat Faghih (Velayat Faghih in Shiite political ýterminology means the rule of the cleric, the cleric as the head of state). This is true, but ýif “melting” in Velayat (a term used by die-hard supporters of clerical rule in Iran) means ýwhat President Mahmud Ahmadinejad is showing us, the true followers of Velayat ýFaghih, which includes the top cleric (i.e. Faghih, ayatollah Khamenei) himself, then we ýmust be revered. Why? Read on.ý

Right from the day of the founding of the Islamic Republic in 1879, the most important ýimage that the theoreticians of Velayat Faghih have been hard trying to portray to the ýpublic is that the top cleric is like the main pole of a tent that constitutes the Islamic state, ýand not a member of a party, and not a supporter of this or that particular view. He is a ýfather figure who is just and free who is supposed to have a high-level supervision of ýsociety. Whenever he sees the government deviating from the main path, he would ýintervene to arbitrate. He is a cleric who understands the various political forces in the ýcountry he wisely supports one group at one time, while supporting another one at a ýdifferent time. When time comes for difficult decisions, he listens to all sides and makes ýa decision based on the views of the majority. And like a father, he protects everybody in ýthe family, from the mother to the youngest member. The very thing that Mr. Khomeini ýdid in the family of the “insiders” (insiders, or “khodiha” means those who are trusted ýand form the inner group of loyalists). ý

It was understood that the top cleric’s domain was not the battleground between this or ýthat cabinet minister or governor. It was understood that the top cleric (i.e. the Velayat ýFaghih) would not support one group to the complete detriment of another. He is ýsupposed to be above the battles, and issues his judgment using wisdom, justice, and ýreason.ý

During the 16 years of the Hashemi Rafsanjani and Mohammad Khatami administrations ýthis image was preserved, even though the events behind the scene were different. Even ýtoday, both of them talk of being in love with the top cleric and speak of the top cleric ýwith respect.ý

But those days have gone. Mahmud Ahmadinejad has brought the top cleric down from ýhis high eminent position. He has been dragged into every dispute. Ahmadinejad brings ýthe word of the Faghih to support a disgraced cabinet minister. Ahmadinejad brings the ýperspective of the Faghih to win the Majlis support for a billionaire Minister of Interior. ýHe quotes the Faghih to justify cracking down on ordinary citizens who complain about ýinflation. To suppress students who challenged the crackdown of para-military forces he ýbrings news that the Faghih - and not the president - would come to a gathering of ýstudents from Elm va Sanaat University. In other words, if the original Faghih planned to ýshove a fist in the mouth of the government (a term used by Mr. Khomeini in reference to ýthe Shah’s last government in 1978), the fist of his successor would end up in the mouth ýof students who have been born in the Islamic Republic, trained by it, went to its ýuniversities and carry the “Islamic” adjective in the title of their associations.ý

These loyal supporters of the executive even justify their school-type letters they write to ýworld leaders and claim them to be approved by the Faghih. So much is attributed to the ýFaghih by the President and the establishment that one should expect news that the ýFaghih’s views have been pipelined to all the offices of the government. ý

With this state of affairs, the true followers of the top cleric should really ask this ýquestion: Can a Faghih who is present in the streets, the Majlis, in homes, in government ýministries, in moral enforcement offices, in ward 209 of Evin prison, in Keyhan ýnewspaper, in the growing prisons of the country, etc, remain a leader who is supposed to ýbe the pillar of the Islamic Republic? Is the stature of the Faghih the same as that of ýPresident Ahmadinejad? Can someone who has been at the helm of affairs for years as a ýleader have the same standing as someone who is expected to be in charge of executive ýaffairs for a mere 4 or at best 8 years - despite gaining this position through fraud or ýinstalling a billionaire General - and who will finally leave office with a good name or ýmerely as Ahmadinejad? ý

Does Mr. Khamenei and his closest advisors, and all those who have melted in the ýFaghih, view the position of the leader (i.e. Faghih) of the Islamic Republic today to be ýthat of the “leader of the deprived world” and the deputy of the 12th Shiite Imam (two ýterms used for the supreme leader of Iran)? Is associating ayatollah Khamenei’s name ýwith a Hezbollah leader, or a party, or a group supporting the government, etc add to the ýstature of the leader of the Islamic Republic?ý

Ask yourself: Can the Faghih be stooped to the level of a writer at Keyhan newspaper? ýCan the Faghih be of the same stature as a prosecutor who has Zahra Kazemi’s (the ýCanadian-Iranian photojournalist who was killed in Evin prison in 2003) blood on his ýhands? Can the name of the Faghih be on the letter-head carrying the exile order for the ýmembers of the One Million Signature Campaign (a women’s group advocating equality ýof gender laws in Iran) who have gathered signatures to protect women’s rights? Can ýstudents be beaten in the name of the Faghih simply because they are demanding the right ýto return to their classes? In short, if the key pillar - i.e. the top cleric - is turned into little ýbeams that support small tents that in turn support the main structure of the regime, will ýthe house remain standing? An honest response to this question, if it does not come from ýthe likes of Keyhan newspaper editors or blind-supporters, can throw light on many ýissues.ý

You should ask these questions of yourself. And don’t even bother to tell us what the ýresponses are. Because we are, after all, anti-Velayat Faghih and our punishment has ýalready been long decided by the operatives of these very small tents that constitute the ýIslamic Republic.ý

montazeri847.jpg

Velayat Faghih is ‘Shirk’, not Islamic !

In what is probably his most startling attack on the authority of the concept of Velayat ýFaghih (rule of the clerics), Iran’s critical senior cleric, ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri ýwho is also viewed as the theoretician for the Velayat Faghih concept and the deputy for ýayatollah Khomeini until a year before the latter died in 1989, declared that Velayat ýFaghih was ‘shirk’, meaning it was completely un-Islamic and a major sin of polytheism. ýIn short, ‘shirk’ in Islam means belief that there is a god other than God or Allah, which ýin Islam is among the most serious sins.ý

He made this astonishing declaration to a group of Freedom Movement of Iran leaders ýwho were visiting him as a continuation of a discussing he has been having over the ýscope of the authority of the faghih, i.e. the cleric ruler, and said, “The views of the ýfaghih have priority over the views of other people only on religious matter and talking ýabout other issues, such as relations with the US or having political relations with other ýcountries, are not the business of the faghih and therefore must be resolved by ýprofessional experts.”ý

According to the public relations office of the Iran Freedom Movement, in this gathering, ýayatollah Montazeri also said, “When the discussions for amending the Iranian ýConstitution were formally going on, opposition was raised over the increased powers ýand authority of the faghih, and I believe that even the Prophet Mohammad did not have ýabsolute authority, and so absolute faghih is a shirk.”ý

These unusual remarks by an ayatollah who is considered by many to be the highest ýsource of emulation among Shiites in Iran, is viewed to be important by political ýobservers because he is recognized as a juridical and legal theoretician of the concept of ývelayat faghih. He is the author of a famous book on the subject, Darshayi dar Babe ýVelayat Faghih (Lessons on the Subject of Velayat Faghih) in Arabic who was also the ýperson who introduced the idea into the Iranian constitution when its provisions were ýbeing debated by the Experts Assembly in 1979. ý

Montazeri’s remarks come just a week after Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, the head of the ýpowerful Experts Assembly on Leadership (which elects the supreme of Iran and ýmonitors his activities) who is said to have played the key role in persuading the ýmembers of the Assembly to vote for ayatollah Khamenei as the successor to Khomeini ýwhen the latter died in 1989, again talked of the necessity of creating the “Council of ýClerics” (Shoraye Foghaha) - instead of a single clerical leader that is the current practice ýý– and said, “The management of the country should be based on the Council of Clerics.”ý

Rafsanjani further stressed that, “Today, every accepts that one cleric cannot be an expert ýon all the aspects of people’s life and for this reason fegh (Islamic jurisprudence) requires ýexpertise and if we accept the expert faghih (cleric ruler) then we must accept the council ýof clerics.”ý

These words by Rafsanjani are not new, and just a few days earlier when he was on a trip ýto the religious city of Mashhad he made similar public remarks. At the Jame Razavi ýUniversity in Mashhad he raised the question about how to bring in new ideas and ýinterpretations and said, “There is no cleric who is an expert in all the sciences and ýknowledge.”ý

In his talk, he also criticized the religious schooling system and said, “Today universities ýacross the world are discovering new things about the world but what have we done in ýour religious schools?” “If we want to have new ideas in religious schools, then we must ýgo the same way that universities across the world have gone.”ý

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I don't agree with your criticisms which seem to be against the Islamic Republic of Iran. I love the Islamic Republic of Iran and I love Sayyed Khamenei(ha) and recognize him as the rightful leader of the Iranian state. I simply just don't believe in the concept of blinding following a fallible human scholar; I agree that scholars are needed and know more then us; this includes Usooli scholars who are some of the best in matters of Shari'ah like Fiqh, etc. As for Velayat-e Faqih I don't personally agree with it but I still love my brothers and sisters that do.

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Let us get out the way that the vast Majority of Iranian scholars adhere to WF, almost all of the Iranian scholars have supported this concept and even died to protect it (refer to the long line of clerics martyred protecting Islamic revolution). The very few clerics who actually DO oppose it have been supportive of a system only to dismiss it afterwards, they are not giving a solutions, they just complain: Some of them have desperately called for a Secular state (in a traditional and collective society, incompatible for Islam) to obviously attain more power of their own while others have called for the bombardment of Iran and its people. But yes, we are talking about a small minority who does not agree with it.

Imam Mehdi (a) commanded the Muslims to refer to Scholars when it comes to Sharia (Islamic Law of the Land, Law that was enforced by Holy Prophet, Imam Ali while ruling over Moslems) who are his representatives on earth until he returns. Islam has a lot to say about politics and has specific laws that have to be enforced among the Muslim population and cannot be put into practice with secularist idea's.

Supreme Leader (HA) is not expected to know everything, on the contrary he is a fallible human being that knows a lot about Islam, he has studied it: His whole life and with his knowledge of Islam he gives general guidelines/his advice to the various politicians. Politicians are not compelled to follow his guidelines (unfortunately many have not). Supreme leader guides Moslems just as any other scholar with general rules on behaviourism and Islamic manners. These rules were not established by him, he is gives advice based on Shari'a. I have heard from many Westerners who actually believe The Supreme Leader of Iran literally rules over every form of government and even tells Hezbollah what to do! In fact some Western journalists believe Ayatollah Khamanei tells Hezbollah how to conduct their warfare! Similarly, Some Westerners think he tells Politicians how to do their job too!

Absolutely ridiculous accusations. What the function of is of Supreme Leader in an islamic society is to guide by giving advice of Islam, what he has studied for and chosen by a council chosen by the people directly as the person with most knowledge.

since our friend "Jehad ta Fath" the Anti-IRI has returned, he can start off replying to the other posts before recycling old ones.

They call me, and others like me, anti-Velayat Faghih (Velayat Faghih in Shiite political �nology means the rule of the cleric, the cleric as the head of state). This is true

Wrong, Velayate Faqih means Guardianship of the Jurist, Just about any academic that wrote in favor of this ideology has translated it in such a way. The faqih is not a means to rule, that is for other governing bodies. He protects and looks over revolutionary principles. Most politicians in the Islamic Republic are NOT clerics, your other arguments are absolute rubbish and garbage and have nothing to do with the function of Supreme Leader.

The entire reason it has been mistranslated meaning "Rule of the Clerics" is to make cattle believe that it is indirectly modelled after the clerical rule in Europe that was eventually destroyed. By doing this there is an impression of a regime that is medieval, backwards, corrupt, uses religion for personal gains, etc. for people who have no idea what is going on in Iran. Very convenient but not here. You're better off using these kind of tricks among others who take you seriously.

Please merge this thread with the countless others that are recent in the Iranian forum, the topic "Mutahhari, Iran and Persia" discusses this concept indepth i believe

Edited by Rubaiyat
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Wilayatul Faghih was established in Islamic Rep of Iran after the Revolution just to protect Iran from the Great Satan...the USA. This is the only mean to unite the nation of Iran in facing the number one enemy of Islam.

If Islamic Iran is no longer threaten by the enemies and there is not REAL threat from the Great Satan to eliminate Islam, the institution of Wilayat Faghih is NO LONGER NEEDED.

It is due to the wilayat faghih that Islamic Iran and Hezbollah are able to stand up to Great Satan and The mother of all terrorists (The Zionist group).

Therefore, the person who is the wilayat faghih will not be necessary the most senior (in age) and most knowledgeable...he just need to be closed to Imam Hujjat (as) and prepare his nation to face the Great Satan with bravery and without fear.... in technology, skills, intelligent and hardwares.

Look at the muslim nations that not adhered to wilayatul Faghih... can they stand up to the USA or Zionist terrorist regime?

If the Great Satan wants to destroy Islamic Iran..she has to demolish the wilayatul faghih system...NOT IT IS TOO late for the Great Satan to do so.

Before Imam Khomeini (ra) handed the leadership to Ayatullah Khamenei (ha)...the concept of Wilayat al Faqih Mutlaqa was introduced...to further differenciate the past understanding of Wilayatul Faghih. The purpose is to strengthen the unity of the people in the most solid way to face the Great Satan.

Learn the lessons from Zionist atrocities to the people in Gaza and victory of Hezbollah...hopefully the concept of wilayatul faghih and why it has been introduced by Imam Khomeini (ra) will be understood.

Layman

Edited by layman
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Layman, This is the first time I as an Iranian have heard such things,

the concept of Velayate Faqih is purely an Islamic concept based on Sunnah of the Holy Prophet and commandments of the Imams to follow his representatives, the scholars for Shari'a(Islamic law) when he disappears.

Has absolutely nothing to do with whether America is no longer a hegemonic power.

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The common Usooli medicine/doctor example is not accurate for how some hardcore "Usoolis" view the issue of Taqleed to a Marja. I've read and been told by certain "Usoolis" that you are to pick one specific Marja, say for Grand Ayatullah Sistani(ha), Grand Ayatullah Fadlallah, Grand Ayatullah Khamenei(ha), etc.; and you are to then blindly follow every fatwa or ruling they give. We recognize in the world of medicine that certain doctors and professionals have certain areas of expertise; maybe "Doctor A" specializes in heart issues; whereas "Doctor B" specializes in "Ears, Nose, and throat" (ENT) issues. So scholars would as fallible human beings have areas of strength and weakness, one Marja would be better then another at one area of Islamic law and vis-a-versus. Also how are you to know who is the "most knowledgable" Marja?! Can you actually tell me with 100% certainty that Sayyed Sistani(ha) is more knowledgable about the Deen of al-Islam then Sayyed Khamenei(ha) or Sayyed Fadlallah? Or in the past can you say honestly say you know who was the more knowledgable Marja and scholar Sayyed al-Khoe'i(ra) or Sayyed Ruhollah Khomeini(ra)?

Also the Akhbari position in Twelver Shi'a Islam says that we should only do certain actions like pay the Khums tax, have Salaat al-Jummah, go out on religious mandated Jihad (different then self-defense which is a natural human right permitted in Islam but not the same as the Holy edict of Jihad in al-Islam), etc. when commanded by a Masoom Imam(as). Today, our Masoom Holy Imam is Imam al-Mahdi(as) who is in Occultation (Ghaybah). During the Occultation (Ghayba) we are not to make demi-Mahdi's for ourselves! Some Usoolis believe a fallible human scholar is allegedly our "stand-in" for Imam(as) during his Ghayba! They allege we are to give Khums (which belong only to the Imam(as) to a fallible non-Masoom human scholar! Same goes with Salat al-Jummah, calling for Jihad (different then just natural self-defense that doesn't need the Masoom's edict of Jihad under Islamic Shari'ah), etc. Many of the great scholars of the past and most Shi'a Muslims in general were Akhbaris, before Wahid Behbahani and his people took over Karbala after the 1760s C.E.

Of the Shi'a Muslim Ulama of the past who were clear Akhbaris were Shaykh Muhammad Ya'qub Kulayni(ra) the compiler of "Kitab al-Kafi", Shaykh Hurr al-Amili(ra) who compiled the book "Wasail al-Shia", and tons of others.

Ya Ali(as) Madad!

There is a reason why we say that you are to follow only one marja. It is to do with the nature of ijtehad.There are some 'rules' of ijtehad (method/process of ijtehad) which each mujtahid has. It is based on these 'rules' that they derive a ruling. So for Hajj rulings, the sources (Quran and ahadith) go through the same 'rules' as they would for Salat rulings. If you follow two marjas at once, its like you are following the 'rules' of ijtehad of one marja and at the same time following the contradictory 'rules' of ijtehad of the other marja. The notion that one marja can be better in salat rulings than another and another marja better than the first in Hajj etc is also false because of the same reason. The difference between rulings is because of a difference in these 'rules' of ijtehad. Being knowledgeable in Hajj specifically or Salat specifically etc is not valid as that is not how ijtehad works.

Can you tell me what the standard is for the level of phD? It is ambiguous. Similarly who is capable of being followed by th laymen is also ambiguous. We usoolis have differing opinions on who we can follow. For example Ayatollah Fadlullah doesnt require the marja to be the most learned as he doesnt believe such a thing exists. Its a scholarly difference.

I am not knowledgeable enough on the khums and Salat al Jumuah issue so I wont comment on it. Beiing a representative is not the same as being the person himself just like how asking Allah through Ahlul Bayt (as) is not the same as asking the Ahlul Bayt (as).

I am not sure but I dont think there was anything as usooli or akhbari in the early days.

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Layman, This is the first time I as an Iranian have heard such things,

the concept of Velayate Faqih is purely an Islamic concept based on Sunnah of the Holy Prophet and commandments of the Imams to follow his representatives, the scholars for Shari'a(Islamic law) when he disappears.

Has absolutely nothing to do with whether America is no longer a hegemonic power.

Velayatul faqih is not about the scholars of Shari'a...there are many existing scholars of shari'a or experts of shari'a (marjas) but they are not velayatul faqih. Velayatul faqih is to unite and lead the followers toward the wills of the Current Imam (as) and to face the enemies of Imam (as) in an organize way (like the lines during jamaah prayers).

Layman

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Velayatul faqih is not about the scholars of Shari'a...there are many existing scholars of shari'a or experts of shari'a (marjas) but they are not velayatul faqih. Velayatul faqih is to unite and lead the followers toward the wills of the Current Imam (as) and to face the enemies of Imam (as) in an organize way (like the lines during jamaah prayers).

Layman

And how do u conclude that in the absence of enemies of Islam, there is no need for any such leadership ?

Edited by Abbas_Zaidi
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And how do u conclude that in the absence of enemies of Islam, there is no need for any such leadership ?

Enemies of Islam will always exist until such a time when Imam Mahdi will finish them all with a final victory. The level of threats from enemies vary from times to times before the coming of Imam Hujjat (as). Once a great Islamic nation (not a perfect Islamic nation) such as Islamic Republic of Iran came into existent, it creates a revival of Islam to the whole world. Enemies of Islam see this is coming. Therefore they will crush the new born hope with greater efforts. How to protect the Islamic Iran against these greater enemies? Will the system of regular marjaiyaat help the nations to face the enemies. If that the case, then the new born Islamic nation will be ruled by many leaders...it will fail and the enemies will destroy Islamic Iran.

To protect the Islamic Iran against the greater enemies, we need to rely on the Unity of the People. It has to be based on real Islamic belief...which is total submission to the Wills of Imam Hujjat (as). This where Velayatul Faqih is needed.

The greater the level of threats from the enemies, the greater will be the velayat (authority) of the leader....

And how do u conclude that in the absence of enemies of Islam, there is no need for any such leadership ?

Let supposed that Shah of Iran was good shia muslim, and the USA was a just superpower. THEN there would be no real threat from the enemies of Islam....THEN there would be NO revolution in 1979 and also there will be NO wilayatul Faghih existing now to rule the Nation of Iran. What we will have no would be Reza Shah family continuing to rule Iran until today.

Layman

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(salam)

First of all I want to say "Thanks to Iran for the help to Hezbollah and to other Muslim around the world...

But I have many problems with the concept of Wilayatul Faqih... And i have a big problem with Iran´s political methods.

Sorry but i cant accept that some Shiite scholars are prisoned in Iran or in grounding because of some critics against the wilayatul Faqih system or against the government.

May Allah bless some of the prisoned Scholars and give them Sabr till Imam Mahdi (ajf) appears. Because many of them are unwarranted in prison or in grounding. I think that some officers of the Islamic police of Iran should be in prison and not our scholars because the iranian police do also many thinks which aren´t acceptable...

I´am with the opinion with Sayyid Al Khui and Sayyid Sistani and Sayyid Hakeem....

Sayyid Hakeem:

Q1: 1) Who is the Wilayat al-Faqih in these days?2) Is it obligatory to do

taqleed of the Wali al-Faqih?3) If someone does taqleed of a marja other

than the wali al-faqih and in a particular issue the fatwas of both differ, what

is the duty of the moqallid? Can he follow his marja, or does he have to follow

the Wilayat al-Faqih?

A: Wilayat al faqih is a branch issue that religious jurists did not agree

on.The individual had to choose the most knowledgeable jurist that is

described with all necessary conditions for imitation - Taqleed.If

determining the right religious jurist (Merji) was based on

religious evidence then the individual should follow the verdicts of the chosen

jurist whether this jurist believes in the issue of wilayat al faqih or does

not.

http://english.alhakeem.com/quearchv/Wilayat.htm

Please don´t say now that i doing Fitna, because if I discuss some topics with pro - wilayatul Faqih persons, they blame me that i´m doing fitna and so on only because i have another opinion!

Wa salam

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Absolutely amazing what people say when they are asked about this topic. But there are only a handful in prison, not because they disagree with Velayate Faqih, but because they openly call for overthrow of the system and revolution, any human being in just about any country would be in jail. Instead, these scholars are not in jail but under house arrest, some are no longer.

As you know, Iran has hundreds of thousands of scholars, and a few are filmed and interviewed by koffar so you in Germany can think Iran is a demon country that throws everyone in jail that doesn't agree with them - that is not reality. We are talking about a very tiny minority. VF is a fully Islamic theory and supported by most scholars, and highest Marjas in the Islamic Republic. If you think you know better than them, If you have not figured this out and insist on calling it a "political tool" by parroting western media, even today with internet and all other modern then i suggest you find a new hobby.

It is based on Sunnah of the Prophet who ruled with Shari'a, who had his own moral and Islamic police and served as a political/religious leader at the same time and his sayings

as well as the Imam Mahdi who called on all moslems to refer to the scholars who will represent him (his leadership position and religious guidance) until he returns.

and more

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(bismillah)

Let study the history a bit...to understand why wilayatul faghih was introduced. Again this is for the sake of discussion.

1. When Allah swt was about to introduced his khalifah on this earth.... He (swt) made Adam (as) to be the first Prophet.

2. When the earth is about to be flooded... He (swt) made Nuh (as) to save his nation.

There were so many natural disasters that can eliminate the existence of human beings such as deseases, earth quakes, rain stones, volcanos.... Allah swt send Prophets with a mission to save them and WARN them of the incoming disasters. Therefore, if they believed in Allah swt and His Prophet (as), the nation will be saved.

When the human civilization came so low in knowledge and behavior and they became JAHIL...(the arab jahilliyah), then Allah swt send in MUHAMMAD Mustafa (pbuh) with a mission to establish ISLAM to save humans from "ignorance". Therefore, Muhammad (as) was called the "CITY of KNOWLEDGE".

To further save the Muslims from enemies (the Jaahil people) and to further guide them...Imamat was Introduced to safe guard humanity.

The Human Beings were SO INGORANCE...they killed every single IMAMS until Allah swt said..."It is enough!!!...and Allah swt made the last Imam in Ghaibat". It means it will be beyond the touch of PHYSICAL enemies of Islam.

Will Allah swt and Imams stop helping the muslim ummah? The answer will absolute NO NO!

Allah swt will put new strategies to help the muslim through HIS Representative...the Current Imam (ajt).

The knowledge will still flow...the concept of Marjaiyat was introduced. And this concept is still keep going until now to educate followers of Imam.

In anticipating that the enemies of Islam have becaming so bold and so clear to destroy the very existent of the future muslim ummah....Then Imam Khomeini was instructed to rise with a mission to form an Islamic Nation with the help of Imam Zaman (ajt). Alhamdulillah, that mission succeeded.

The creation of an Islamic nation was not accidental...it is within Allah swt planning to ensure the survival of the followers of Imams in facing the Great Satan (the US and others). Why Iran was choosen and not other nations. BECAUSE, Rasul had indicated that the Persians are intelligent people who will acheived technological advancement. There so many hadiths about the virtues of Persians.

The enemies of Islam did not gave up after the success of the creation of an Islamic nation....the enemies created sunni/shia issues, sent Saddam to destroy Iran, Attacked Iran through Tabas, economic sanctions, psychological wars....you name it all ...up to nuclear bomb threat!

Why an Islamic nation will have to be created to face the Great Satan... that is the ONLY viable way to face the current and future enemies of Islam.

In order to maintain the UNITY among the people of the Nation of Islamic Iran and in anticipating the disasters planned by the enemies of Islam...the Concept of Velayat Fagih was introduced to save Islamic Iran and to face the enemies face to face, technology with technology, hardwares with hardwares...

I hope we will understand why Allah swt send Adam (as), Nuh (as)...all the Prophets and Imams and Walis to humans. They were send to give guidance to humanity, to avoid natura disasters, to defeat the Great enemies of Islam and to deliver knowledge to the ummah.

Imam Khomeini was one of those wali that Allah swt sent to us through the Current Imam (as) to face the future threats. However, to make Imam Khomeini (ra) able to direct the people, the concept of Wilayatul fagih was introduced. Other methods of saving the ummah have been introduced such as prophethood and imamate. However, there is no way Imam Khomeini can be nabi, rasul or Imam in order to lead the ummah. The answer is wilayatul fagih which will be under the supervision of Imam Zaman and under the supevision of Rasul and under the supervision of Allah swt.

Layman

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What is "wilayat al faqih"? "wilayat al faqih" in Arabic means the "authority (guardianship) of the faqih (jurist)" over the ummah (Muslim community). Many think that only certain maraji' such as Ayatullah Khomeini and Khamenei believe in this authority in order to form a government and rule the country (Iran), however as a matter of fact every single Shia marja' believes in wilayat al faqih but to different extents.

Every marja' believes in "wilayat al faqih al hisbiya" which allows that certain marja' (faqih) to issue fatawa to guide the ummah, judge, collect khums etc on behalf of the Imam until his reappearance. Most of the maraji' believe in wilayat al faqih just to this extent and believe they don't have any other roles such as doing a revolution or forming an Islamic state as these could be only done by infallibles i.e. Imams, and since Shias believe their 12th and last Imam is present and living the maraji's role is limited to wilayat al faqih al hisbiya.

However there is another ideology first introduced by Ayatullah Naraqi and then used by Ayatullah Khomeini to form "Islamic Republic of Iran". This ideology known as "wilayat al faqih al mutlaqa" says that the faqih has "absolute authority" over the Muslim ummah. This allows the faqih to be involved in every issue i.e. politics and even do a revolution and form an Islamic state. Wilayat al faqih al mutlaqa is rejected by most of the maraji' as they believe that such authority could only belong to the Imams and no other person or faqih has the same rights as them.

A few names to mention of the recent maraji' who opposed the idea of "wilayat al faqih al mutlaqa" are:

Sayed Mohsen Al-Hakim, Sayed Abulqasim Al-Khoei, Sayed Mohammad Al-Rohani, Sayed Kadhim Shari'at Madari, Sayed Hussain Borujerdi, Sayed Golpayegani, Sayed Mohammad Hadi Al-Milani, Shaikh Hussain Vahid Khorasani, Sayed Ali Sistani, Shaikh Ishaq Al-Fayadh, Sayed Mohammad Saeid Al-Hakim, Mirza Jawad Tabrizi, Sayed Taghi Ghomi and Sayed Sadiq Rohani.

Ayatullah Abulqasim Al-Khoei for example states in his books that:

"There is no proof for the absolute authority of the faqih during the occultation"

"Yes there is authority (gurdianship) for the faqih in two places and those two are issuing fatwa and judging ..... however for authority in other places there are no ahadeeth with reliable sources and proof."

"So the (absolute) authority for the faqih during the occultation is not proven because it is limited to (only) the prophet (Muhammad) and the Imams."

You can find more explanation regarding the ahdeeth and why they are weak and not reliable in his "Makasib" and "Minhaj Al-Saliheen".

After reading all the explanations and the proofs regarding wilayat al faqih al mutlaqa, one starts to wonder, why is there that "most" of the maraji' who believe in this ideology have or are somehow benefiting from it!? Was this only an "Islamic excuse" for Ayatullah Khomeini to do the revolution in Iran and appoint himself as the leader? Why is it that all the "new" Ayatullahs that have graduated from the "hawza" (Islamic seminary) in Qom, Iran believe in wilayat al faqih al mutlaqa? Is this all an excuse to gain political power? Who appoints the faqih (leader)?

I remember when speaking to Hussain Khomeini (Ayatullah Khomeini's grandson) he was telling us how much his grandfather hated the hawza of Najaf and how he used to get angry and prison Hussain in his room when Hussain talked about Najaf in front of his grandfather. Maybe wilayat al faqih al mutlaqa was only an excuse which Ayatullah Khomeini could use to gain political power, be a leader and possibly try to weaken the thousand years old hawza of Najaf (Iraq) and strengthen the two hundrad years old hawza of Qom (Iran).

Wallahu a3lam

Edited by Najafi.
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Maybe wilayat al faqih al mutlaqa was only an excuse which Ayatullah Khomeini could use to gain political power, be a leader and possibly try to weaken the thousand years old hawza of Najaf (Iraq) and strengthen the two hundrad years old hawza of Qom (Iran).

Wallahu a3lam

Wilayatal fagih al mutlaqa was not an excuse to gain political power or to weaken hawza of najaf or to strengthen hawza of Qom.... Howza is just a howza where religious students learn in detailed about Shia Islam from many perspectives.

To be a functioning marja, we don't require an Islamic State, we just NEED a muslim community. Once an Islamic state is born, there is a need to unite the entire population. If we rely to a number of marjas simultenuously to unite population in an Islamic State, then there will be problems. There are many living examples that marjas have different opinions when come to political views and how to face the enemies of Islam.

If an Islamic state don't have a supreme leader (with religious expertise) who will oversee the running of the country then the direction of the state will NOT be religiously oriented. Since Iranians after the 1979 revolution endorsed an Islamic state, a supreme leader is needed to guide the population toward religious direction and strong unity to face the forces that will try to destroy the Islamic State.

If Islamic Rep of Iran don't a wiliyatal faghih to unite the population...will Iran survive the onslaughts from the enemies, in particular the US?

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Wilayatal fagih al mutlaqa was not an excuse to gain political power or to weaken hawza of najaf or to strengthen hawza of Qom.... Howza is just a howza where religious students learn in detailed about Shia Islam from many perspectives.

That is purely your opinion. The reality is that the hawza of Najaf and hawza of Qom have been competing with each other long before the Islamic revolution in Iran. It is famous that once one of the leading maraji3 of Najaf travelled to Qom; once the marja3 got to Qom the hawza of Qom had already prepared one of the hardest fiqh questions to ask that marja3 in order ro embarrass him but when they asked the question the marja3 turned to one of his students and told him to answer the question. The answer was very good that everyone was amazed and was saying if this is the student then what would the teacher be like.

Also what was said by Hussain Khomeini also contradicts your opinion.

To be a functioning marja, we don't require an Islamic State, we just NEED a muslim community. Once an Islamic state is born, there is a need to unite the entire population. If we rely to a number of marjas simultenuously to unite population in an Islamic State, then there will be problems. There are many living examples that marjas have different opinions when come to political views and how to face the enemies of Islam.

If an Islamic state don't have a supreme leader (with religious expertise) who will oversee the running of the country then the direction of the state will NOT be religiously oriented. Since Iranians after the 1979 revolution endorsed an Islamic state, a supreme leader is needed to guide the population toward religious direction and strong unity to face the forces that will try to destroy the Islamic State.

If Islamic Rep of Iran don't a wiliyatal faghih to unite the population...will Iran survive the onslaughts from the enemies, in particular the US?

You missed the point. You can't even establish an Islamic state during the occultation. So everything above is invalid.

wallahu a3lam

Edited by Najafi.
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1 Imam Khoei's (rh) statements in Minhaj Al-Saliheen page 366 :

" Offensive Jihad is obligatory in time of occultation."

"The Muslims, if they possess the readiness equipment and power, then indeed Jihad against the faithfulness to call them to religion is obligatory upon them."

"Indeed acting upon this important order in the open requires a leader <ka'it> and a commander <amir> who the Muslim ses as an authority <amrihi> upon them."

"So most certainly is assigned to the jurist <faqih> who fulfills the required conditions"

"He conducts this important role through the issue of Hisba, on the basis that somebody else taking such a role would result in chaos and disorder."

2 In his another statements of another books he says : because al-omour al-hesbiah are everything that falls into protecting the stability of life, it is indeed a requirement of Islamic Law, and because it has not been assigned to a specific person, therefore, this Wilaya is a provision assigned to the jurist who fulfills the conditions. [Al-Tanqih, volume 1, Al mustanad, volume 2]

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