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Ibn al-Hussain

By Ibn al-Hussain,
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Jabir ibn Hayyan Newbie

Jabir ibn Hayyan

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me too mashAllah, look at how we guard the alam with diamonds around... we have elephants running in the hood, wut now pakis

you guys cant touch our superior matam style and look at those knives wah mashAllah

Masha Allah Matami, jeo Azadaron..... Mola Salamat Rakhain :cry:

Muharram Jaloos (Karachi, Pakistan)

Aazan Mola Ali Akber a.s Ashura Morning Lahore, pakistan

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Edited by Dr_Asad_77
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zainab_ Newbie

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:mad:

May the curse of Allah be upon the killers (la) of Imam Hussein ibn Ali (as), Ali Asghar (as) and Hadhrat Abbas Ibn Ali (as) and all those who died in the plains of Karbala, and curse those who humiliated our Bibi Zaynab (sa) as well as the rest of the family of our Imam (as) who lived, Allah I ask that the evil tyrants (la) be given not one single drop of mercy, for the crimes they committed upon Those (as) whom I love, and Those (as) whom You (awj) love the most, the Masumeen (as) You are All Justice, All Mighty.

May our lives be sacrificed for Them (as) and let not one single tear shed that is not shed for love of the Ahlul Bayt (as)

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Ya Aba 3abdillah Newbie

Ya Aba 3abdillah

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I never knew Imam Hussain (a.s) told you his view upon azadari.

It's a given. If your child went and smacked a helpless old lady across the face, even if he's not concious of his act due to his age, won't you as the parent feel embarrassed? And won't others know you're embarrassed?

OH HUSSAIN, I LOVE YOU MY IMAM, I LOVE YOU SO MUCH THAT THAT, OH I'M GOING TO BLEED, YEH, I'M GOING TO CUT MYSELF UP AND SLASH MY HEAD AND BACK AND MUTILATE MYSELF AND MAKE PEOPLE THINK THAT YOUR SHIA ARE SAVAGES, THAT IS ENOUGH PROOF THAT I AM A MAN AND THAT I LOVE YOU YES.

Give me a break. If someone wants to really prove their love, attempt to read zyarat warith every fajr for 6 months in a row or something, or pay half your wages to send some poor elderly person to hajj.

Imam Sadiq (as) "Be representatives of us, do not be a burden upon us."

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zainab_ Newbie

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brother, why not all of this? why not reading extra dua and saying all the nafl prayers and giving to the poor all you can as well as zanjeer?

I know someone who does the absolute best they can to be a shia of Ali a.s. yet also they do zanjeer (granted they do this at home, rather in a street), soley for love of Imam Hussein a.s.

I do not see any problem with this.

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Ya Aba 3abdillah Newbie

Ya Aba 3abdillah

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^ because the harm outweighs the benefits. What do you benefit from cutting yourself up? Closeness to the Imam? More religious? There are plenty of other ways to attain those without the negative baggage that comes with mutilating ones body and shaming Imam Hussain (as).

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zainab_ Newbie

zainab_

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I do not see the shame, I have seen a couple arguments that it gives a bad impression of Islam but I am an ex-christian and seeing zanjeer and matam never made me think badly of those who do this in anyway, and it most certainly was not off-putting in my decision to follow our most perfect faith, to be honest I can fully understand someone doing this.

so, how is this somehow a shame?

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Jaffa_Shia Newbie

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I do not see the shame, I have seen a couple arguments that it gives a bad impression of Islam but I am an ex-christian and seeing zanjeer and matam never made me think badly of those who do this in anyway, and it most certainly was not off-putting in my decision to follow our most perfect faith, to be honest I can fully understand someone doing this.

so, how is this somehow a shame?

(salam)

Ya Ali Madad

Same here, I am also a convert to shi,ism (from a jewish background) and think that zanjir/tatbir is one of the most beutifull things anyone can do from there love

of Imam Hussein (a.s.) in fact its one of the things which brought me to shi,ism because after i became muslim i saw the tatbir mawakib on the TV ( after the downfall of

saddam (LA) in Iraq) This made me understand how important the event of Karbala was and i went and read about it as i did not know much about islamic history at all

at the time.

Another thing, so many on this board are saying things like "the marjas do not allow it" as if sayed khamenei and sayed fadlallah are the only maraja. For your information

my marja, sayed sadiq al-shirazi says tatbir/qama zani is very mustahab, whether in public or in private.

In my opinion, it is no shame, in fact it is a great honour to shed ones blood for love of Imam Hussein.

:yaali:

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Jaffa_Shia Newbie

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I feel insulted that these people are claiming to be shias.

They are hijacking the religion and turning it into some kind of hindu cult.

Also note, the lack of beards.

I feel insulted when i see ultra-nationalistic and racist people claiming to be shias.

Why is it that those who are anti-azadari always seem to be political extremists and often racist, especialy towards Indians and Pakistanis ?

People with these kinds of attitudes would be better off becoming wahhabi, there are no lack of beards among them.

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iraqi_shia Newbie

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loool they wonna die for Imam Hussain (as)? Show it in real life. Go fight in Palestine. Go get whipped in Israeli jails. Try getting pain inflicted on yourself completely at the mercy of the enemy.

Good point.

Also note how its always in public with their shirts off. Looks like they are trying to impress their own community rather than do a decent deed.

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zainab_ Newbie

zainab_

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^^^

no its not always in public, I know someone who does this inside their house when no one is around.

some people do it because they love their Imam (as).

Imam Hussein shed His blood and gave His (as) life for us, so we could have the right to call ourselves shia today, if Imam Hussein can do that for us whats a few cuts for Him a.s.?

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ali01 Newbie

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imam shed his blood in battle...they should do the same if they want to so bad

wouldn we of had the right to cal ourselves shia anyway?? cause we beleive imam ali should of bin khalif...no mater wat

a few cuts??

they cut themselvs wen and til its good for them to do so...when it gets seirous, cry lik [Edited Out]es n need medical attention......pfffffffft

y dn they use the miracle of husayn to get em outa medical treatment?

i feel sick...i had to stop drinkn my protein shake...puddle of najis blood.........beatin ur chest with an inovative blade between ur fingers?? nice...we not alowed to use foreign objects for certain things lol but for this....ye no worries....imam wil apreciate us buyin blades to put between our fingers....get a life u scum bags

go train urslves to b soldiers so wen ur kids can tc of the family u can go to afghanistan n fight the opresors n do somthn useful with ur blood

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awaitingyou1 Newbie

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Salaam,

i remember in one of the battles Rasoolallah's teeth broked and this news reached a believer Ovais e Karni who in prophets love broke all of his teeth. tht was harmfull too but it was nt a sin bcos he did out of love. so if we cut and shed our blood out of love for imam husain as , i dont think thts shame or bad. imam husain as and his fly has shed more blood than all of those shias together do. just bcos they do in public tht doesnt mean they r trying to shw off. if thts the thing then from tommorrow everyone will sit at home and cry for imam ..no one will attend majalis and cry in public. in a way we r also trying to give a message to non muslims abt karbala and huge sacrifice of our imam like 2 of our bros/sis already said above. their wordings shw how much mustahab and imp this act is.

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zainab_ Newbie

zainab_

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ali101 said:

....get a life u scum bags

because the men practice zanjeer, I want to point out, that as you all are supposed to be repectful of all the ayatollahs, a few fatawa here:

Fatwa of Ayatollah al-Udhma Muhammad Sadiq Rouhani

To do Qama-Zani is a very good act indeed, and to perform Qama-Zani in public enhances the excellence of this act, and if one is harmed in the process, the reward (Thawab) for this act will be increased even further.

One of the things that I regret not doing is that I did not have the honour to perform this great practice, and now that I am old and frail, I am unable to perform it.

In any case, from all the people who have had the honour to perform this religious symbol I wish to ask them to pray for me after performing Qama-Zani.

Signature and seal of

Ayatollah al-Udhma Muhammad Sadiq Rouhani

Fatwa of Ayatollah al-Udhma Langaroudi

Salaam upon the Lovers of Imam Hussain

In our opinion since Aba-Abdillah al-Hussain alayhis-salam is Thar-Allah, the Blood of Allah, then it would be appropriate, but in fact imperative that for the Blood of Allah, the blood of the creatures of Allah is shed. Therefore not only Qama-Zani is permissible, but it is also regarded as one of the Sha'a'er and it has great, and extensive Thawab (reward).

It is honour and good for the Hussaini Lovers who participate in this beautiful and honourable act, since Qama-Zani is one of the Sha'a'er.

Needless to say that to practice this Sha'a'er in public is better.

Salaam be upon the Righteous Lovers (of Imam Hussain) and upon all the Righteous servants of Allah.

Signature and seal of

Abd-el-Saheb Sayyid Muhammad Mahdi Murtadhawi Langaroudi

Fatwa of Ayatollah al-Udhma Sayyid Sadiq Shirazi

Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim

To perform Qama-Zani, whether in secret or in public, and other kinds of Azadari for Sayyid al-Shuhada Aba-Abdillah al-Hussain - may my soul be his sacrifice and peace and blessings of Allah be upon him - brings about the pleasure of Allah Almighty as well as Imam Mahdi - may Allah hasten his reappearance - InSha'Allah.

{And he who glorifies the Sha'a'er of Allah, surely it is from the piety of the hearts.} [The Holy Qur'an: Ayah 32 of Surah al-Hajj].

are these men scum bags also? do these men not have more knowledge in Islam than you? or are you an ayatollah who is calling other ayatollahs scum bags? if so, does this not present to the world a bad image of Islam, I think if all the religious leaders are calling each other names it is veiwed much worse than some men bleeding for love of their Imam (as) dont you?

the men who perform this rite don't call you a scum bag for not loving your Imam (as) enough to do this, so why can't you also refrain from calling them names because they do.

Edited by zainab_
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syedshahkazmi Newbie

syedshahkazmi

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salam to all my brother and sisters,shia or sunni.As ive got older my opinion on zanjeer and matam with razor blades has got stronger,i think this should be banned all over the world,and i think the people who say masallah and talk about how big zanjeer etc,should realy need to be taught islam.Many of you are probarly thinking what kind of shia iam,or that iam talking rubbish,but i think,well i dont think i know zanjeer give's a bad look into our sect of islam,especialy coming from another religion its freaky and scary.I think 50% or more of people that take part in this type of matam dont even pray 5 times a day,people should be ashamed of themselve's,they stnad thier cryin and saying this is our devotion for imam hussain,at the end day we are meant to be shia muslim's,the muslim's that are meant to be on the correct path,the shia's who follow the traditions of the prophet pbuh and his family pbut.Let me make it clear and give you brother's a bit of opinion,and dont be arrogant and not even think what iam talking about,ive list them down as follow

WE ARE SHIA MUSLIM,WE ONLY BELIEVE IN ONE GOD WHICH Allah AND MUHAMMED IS HIS MESSANGER

WE BELIEVE ALI IS THE THE FIRST CORRECTLY CHOSEN IMAM AND IMAM MAHDI IS THE LAST

WE BELIEVE THAT AHYLULBHAYT IS MADE UP OF 5 PEOPLE,MUHAMMED,ALI.FATIMA,HASSAN,HUSSAIN

THERE ARE 12 IMAMS IN TOTAL

WE SHIA MUSLIM BELIEVE THE 12 IMAMS HAVE BEEN EDUCATED AND AND TAUGHT OF THE CORRECT TRADITIONS ALL FROM THE PROPHET MUHAMMED PBUH

WE BELIEVE THAT ASHOORA SHOULD BE HELD EVERY YEAR TO REMEMBER THE GREAT SACRIFISE OF IMAM HUSSAIN AND HIS COMPANIONS,EVERY YEAR TILL THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT.

THESE ARE THE BASICS,JUST SO WE HAVE A CLEAR IMAGE OF WHAT US SHIA MUSLIM ARE AND BELIEVE,NOW IVE GOT TO THAT,YOU CAN SEE FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY LIST IS REMEMBERANCE OF KARBALA,NOW I AGREE WITH MATAM AND MAJLIS AND FASTING AND GIVIN CHARITY AND ETC,BUT I DONT AGREE WITH ZANJEER ON THIS DAY.PEOPLE TALE ABOUT ITS SACRIFISE THIER SHOWING,YOUR NOT SHOWING US NOTHING BROTHER,YOUR HOWING PEOPLE A BAD IMAGE,IF YOU WANA HOW SACRIFISE FOR IMAM HUSSAIN AND ISLAM ON THE BATTLEFIELD OF KARBALA,WELL THROW YOUR ZANJEER IN THE BIN,AND START PRAYIN 5 TIMES A DAY,DONT GO CLUBBING,DONT DRINK,STOP ALL YOUR HARAM ACTS,AND BE A BETTER MULIM AND THANK Allah THAT THE DAY OF ASHOORA HAS GIVEN YOU THE STRENGTH TO BECOME A BETTER MUSLIM,IMAM HUSSAIN DIDNT SACRIFISE HIS LIFE FOR POPLE TO CUT THEMSELVE'S,WHAT WILL WE ACHIEVE,HE LOST HIS LIFE AND COMPANIONS,AND HIS FAMILY,SO WE COULD HAVE OUR RELIGION ISLAM IN SAFE HANDS,SO START PRAYING AND BECOME A MUSLIM,THATS HOW YOU SHOULD SACRIFISE IF YOU WANT TO.

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ali01 Newbie

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its ali01 not 101............js to break it dwn faw ya

Fatwa of Ayatollah al-Udhma Muhammad Sadiq Rouhani

To do Qama-Zani is a very good act indeed, and to perform Qama-Zani in public enhances the excellence of this act, and if one is harmed in the process, the reward (Thawab) for this act will be increased even further.

wher do they get it from that performing in public enhances the excellence?? and if ur harmed the reward is greater ??? but u become a BURDEN to comunity by havnig doctor who could b treating sumone with a real urgent need of treatment...........

One of the things that I regret not doing is that I did not have the honour to perform this great practice, and now that I am old and frail, I am unable to perform it.

SO HE ADMITS not doin it himself. ok so maybe he should make a fatwa after he has experience doing it himself......otherwise....na im not gna b rude il leav that at that

omg so that means its not fair for an older lover of the imam because he cant get the same amount of sawab as a younger lover of the imam because when ur older ur more frail n can't do it.

Fatwa of Ayatollah al-Udhma Langaroudi

Salaam upon the Lovers of Imam Hussain

In our opinion since Aba-Abdillah al-Hussain alayhis-salam is Thar-Allah, the Blood of Allah, then it would be appropriate, but in fact imperative that for the Blood of Allah, the blood of the creatures of Allah is shed. Therefore not only Qama-Zani is permissible, but it is also regarded as one of the Sha'a'er and it has great, and extensive Thawab (reward).

appropriate and imperative?? absolutely necessary or required; unavoidable: It is imperative that we leave. lol does anyone belelive in this??

yes dear sir it is imperative that i slash myself because i love the imam ...........oh imam look at me look at me

brings about the pleasure of Allah Almighty as well as Imam Mahdi

oh ok....we diddn't know that if it makes Allah happy it will make the imam happy...thnx for letting us knw

i dnt love my imam enough to do this??? hahahhhahaaha ye ok

no i cnt refrain.....the doctor could b out helpng somone with an URGENT need and these ppl do this

how do u knw sum of these ppl won't think of me as scum for not doin what they doin???? mybe im callng em scum as an obligatory precaution

(dat last part was jst jkz but the doctor part was seirous n its pisses me off that they use up doctors time wen ppl who need it r without medical attention)

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Zanjeer is by no means wajib at all, and it is simply a cultural practice that has really gone too far and serves no purpose in the advancement of Islam. It only fuels the Wahhabi propaganda machine and also gives a bad name to the Shia to many non-religious people, who already are skeptical of all things religious. These people are simply lighting the fire, and many enemies of Shia Islam are more than happy to help spread it.

Edited by Shia Engineer
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khuram Newbie

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i m sure thousands of people will accept shia islam as " the best religion" after watching these videos

Wassalam

Edited by Beloved
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ibrahim1088 Newbie

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(bismillah)

(salam)

salamu alaikum all,

this is my first post....

when i saw the first few minutes of the first vid, and the first few replies, i felt that i have to do something...

the first point is, doing "nadb" (the arabic word for hitting yourself on the chest), if it is done in a way that hurts the body, it is HARAM, this is a fatwa from most of our dear maraje'... i guess the best way to learn the right way of nadb is to watch our shikhs and learn that it is not about how hard you hit yourself... have seen shikhs doing nadb as in 0:29 of the first vid...

- having said that... there is nothing worse than saying that it is HARAM to ppl cutting open their heads and beating on their heads (sometimes with knives).... the very least they can do is donate that blood, that is flooding out of their bodies then to streets, and from streets to sinks.... (i mean surely Allah wants us to cut ourselves open and bleed (while hitting ourselves) for the sake of what?

- what about what people do in ashura as well, such as getting blessed from "the horse of imam hussein (as)", in which people play dress up with the horse and the horse walks around in the streets and "getting blessed" by it... another is the hand with piece of cloth with people going around it and kissing it.... another one is the celebration of the Kassim (the son of imam hassan (as....

this comes from ignorance about our imams (as)

so, in summary, shias have mastered making up stuff to get "blessed or rewarded" in ashura for crying on how Imam Husseein (as) died... but the real questions, are

how many of us shia really know imam hussein (as)?

if a non shia asks you, why do you do this to yourself, what is your answer? is your answer, for the reward of commemorating the event of karbala?

is your answer, so that Allah is happy with us? is it, for imam hussein (as) to accept us as one of his followers?

reallllly??????

well, the reward for every drop of tear counts for thousands and thousands of rewards like castles, high ranks in the hereafter...etc, that we hear and read about. for imam hussein to accept us as his followers, dont we have to do actions that imam hussein have emphasized on.

but the real heaven is being a real shia of ahlul beit (as), as one of the shias asks imam sadiq (As): ask Allah for me to grant me heaven, imam sadiq (as) replies ( i cant really remember the exact quote but the what is the core of the reply is) ask Allah to keep you in heaven...

so the real heaven is the true following of ahlul beit (As...

the first thing we want to know is our imams, this will set our feet on stable grounds...

let's ask ourselves, how much do we know about our imams,

since we are on the doors of muharram, let's start with imam hussein (as)

imam hussein is greater than we think, the real questions are

why is ziyarat of imam hussein a must (it is essential for a person to be mu'min to do ziyarat of imam hussein on the 40th day) (one of the five signs of what mu'mins are known for, other signs are wearing a ring in the right hand, mark on the forehead (becasue of sojood), praying 51 raka's a day (wajibs+ mustahab), and saying bismillah arahman arraheim loudly in all prayers (loudly as in as loud as you say the fatiha and other surahs in fajr, maghrib ,and isha) (the hadeeth is from imam ali (as), imam sadiq (as), imam askary(as)?

why do we do ziyarat of imam hussein in all ceremonies (all eids, almost every event)?

why is imam hussein thar Allah (as is ziyarat warith :"ya thar Allah wa ibn tharih"?

why is imam hussein the "sacrifice for Allah" (why wasn't it prophet ismaeil (as), or any other prophet, or any other imam)?

why are the 9 imams (as) descendants of imam hussein not imam hassan (as)

why is imam hussein reffered to as the boat of survival (imam sadiq replies to one of the questions and refers to imam hussein as the boat of survival then the asker replies arent you all (referring to imams (As) boats of survival, imam replies by that imam hussein in the faster one.

why is imam hussein from ahlul kissa'

why is imam hussein "sayed shababi ahlil janna"

why is imam hussein warith ( as in ziyarat warith ( warith of the 5 prophets that are anbiya'ol azm (prophets are ranks, anbiya' ahlul azm are the greatest prophets, which are 5, our prophet (s.a.a.w.w), ibrahim, nooh, issa, mousa (as))

why is it that from the light of the face of imam hussein Allah has created the board and the pen (as he has created from our prophet's face's light everything, from the light of the face of imam ali (the arsh of Allah, and the chair), from the the most modest Fatima's face's light (the hoor ein)...a part of a long hadeeth)

and the question that we should have an answer to, is why when imam mahdi (as) comes out, his rayat (the flag, the sign...) is "ya litharatil hussein" ( the translation of it (the apparent one) is the revenge of those who stood against imam hussein) and not for example the ones that stood against imam ali, imam hassan, imam sadiq, imam kathim....

what do we really know about imam hussein?????

if we stand up in front of imam hussein and he asks us, what have you done to commemorate what happened to me, will our answer be, we beat ourselves so that we couldnt breathe, we ran out of our blood, we kissed the piece of cloth.... i swear upon you by god, what do yo think his answer would be...

imam hussein doesnt ask us to to beat ourselves, he asks us to live islam the real islam, to love for others what you love for yourself, to love our religion, to be guided by our religion (not to guide religion and use it for our needs and greed)....

let us learn about our imams (as) and learn from them how to live (say do you count the ones that know as equal as the ones that do not know)

let us not be ignorant (in a hadeeth, when Allah created the brain, he created against it ignorance), in one of the most important researches done by our scholars ( there are seven doors for hell, eight for heaven, because every person that becomes knowledgeable, he has used his brain to overcome the other seven factors ( where the number of 8 doors come from), if ignorance overcomes the other seven factors control him (where the number of 7 doors came from) .....

one of the most important factors of doing ziyarat is knowing the imam that you are doing ziyarat to ( in tenths of hadiths, whoever does a ziyarat for an imam ( knowing who the imam is), is a wajib upon him to be granted heaven...}

so not knowing our imams and doing stuff (just because we so other "so-called shia's "doing it, that are haram (referred to haram by our maraj') will lead us to be ignorant and going away from the right path...

as for the hadeeths i referred to, it may not be a 100% accurate due to me not bring perfect and memorizing everything i read, to translation, or to other factors... but take the point of the hadeeth, as it is iftira' (accusing imams of saying things that they havent said) as it is a form of lying... on last hadeeth about lying ( lying is one the worse deeds, as it is equivalent to 72 types of bad deeds, the lowest one is zina)...

so we brag and brag about us avoiding zina (which is referred to fahisha in the quran), but we still lie...

imam hussein denies us from lying, as well as other stuff, but let's focus on lying which is spread everywhere....

let's plan not to lie for one day, one day only, and during that day, force ourselves not to lie, and at the end of the day look back and see if what what we aimed for has been fulfilled, of yes, try another day, and so on and so forth, let's build ourselves (in sura shams , Allah (s.w.t) swears by the son, and the duha of the son, the moon, the day, the night, the sky and what has built the skies, the earth and what lays the earth, and soul and what has made a soul, he swears by all that to tell us that (in the aya that follows), that he who builds his nafs (his own self) with good deeds is one of the winners, and a loser is the one that builds it on bad deeds) (my translation might be off, but it is what i understood from a lecture, so again dont take my ttranlsation word by word, rather by the meaning)

lastly a funny story, i once went to see a play to commemorate the battle of the event of karbala in south lebanon and some of the people that were hitting themselves on the head were the gangster in my town, i mean please gangsters and following the path of imam hussein, they do it as a show off....

let's build ourselves as what imam hussein and the 11 other imams (as) want us to build ourselves on...

and

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Abu_Zahra Mentor

Abu_Zahra

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(bismillah)

(salam)

There is a certain way to convey a message, and it is sad to see that some of our brothers and sisters have forgotten how this is done.

God what an embarrassment to Imam Hussain (as)
OH HUSSAIN, I LOVE YOU MY IMAM, I LOVE YOU SO MUCH THAT THAT, OH I'M GOING TO BLEED, YEH, I'M GOING TO CUT MYSELF UP AND SLASH MY HEAD AND BACK AND MUTILATE MYSELF AND MAKE PEOPLE THINK THAT YOUR SHIA ARE SAVAGES, THAT IS ENOUGH PROOF THAT I AM A MAN AND THAT I LOVE YOU YES.

This is disappointing coming from somebody like yourself, brother. Having watched the videos, I believe the brothers are sincere and don't do what they do for manlihood. Mockery is not going to resolve the issue, and definitely isn't from the ways of the Prophet (pbuh) and his progeny (as).

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I feel insulted that these people are claiming to be shias.

They are hijacking the religion and turning it into some kind of hindu cult.

Also note, the lack of beards.

Since when did the Hindus practice any form of bloodletting?

As for the beards, I only watched one of the videos, in which 2 of the 3 men interviewed had a beard (and out of them it was the non-bearded one who wasn't doing tatbeer).

Disagreeing with a practice is one thing. Coming in and making completely irrelevant (and inaccurate) statements is another.

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loool they wonna die for Imam Hussain as.gif? Show it in real life. Go fight in Palestine. Go get whipped in Israeli jails. Try getting pain inflicted on yourself completely at the mercy of the enemy.

One question, my respected brother:

do you want to die for Imam Hussain (as) ?

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I feel insulted when i see ultra-nationalistic and racist people claiming to be shias.

Seconded.

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minimadmonkey Newbie

minimadmonkey

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Thank you so much for your post Ibrahim. I was about to post something along the similar lines.

Please, I wish no one takes offense at my words. I understand that your mujtahids allow zanjeer and thats fine. It is perfectly fine to follow your mujtahids in this manner. No one has the right to degrade your mujtahids or their representatives. That is not good adab. And my point is not to attack anyone's taqlid. This is not the case at all. I just wish to analyze this particular phenomenon of zanjeer matam and come to a better conclusion. It is not my wish, at least at this point, to condemn a particular form of azadari. I only wish to understand.

From my understanding of Islam, the ultimate purpose of creation is to worship Allah(SWT) because He alone is worthy of worship. All of creation worships Allah(SWT). Humans are Allah's(SWT) vicegerents on Earth. We have been gifted with aql(the intellect)and also with free will to reject Allah(SWT)'s existence. Thus, we understand that life is not without meaning and that we as humans have a definite role to play. We may choose to become Allah's slaves and be free of all needs and desires or we may become slaves of our nafs and desires and be in a state of unhappiness. Allah has created this whole world as a sign of His existence. He has sent to us Prophets(PBUT) to reveal His Law unto the people so that mankind would not be in the dark. He has sent us the Imams(AS) to facilitate mankind's journey towards Him. We shall certainly die and be raised again on the day of Qiyamat so that Allah's justice takes its full course. But the afterlife is not the goal. The goal in the afterlife is the same as the goal in this life, it is kurbatan Il-Allah, to get closer to Allah(SWT).

Imam Hussain(AS)'s sacrifice at Kerbala was to show the Ummah of that time, and indeed the people coming later in history, the true Islam. The Islam based on Tawheed and Nabuwaat. Imam Hussain(AS) reaffirmed the Unity of Allah(SWT) and the Messengership of Muhammad(AS). Imam Hussain(AS)'s mission could not have been a source for atonement because atonement is a Christian and pagan concept. In Islam, there is only Tauba, (genuine repentence).

Whenever we commemorate Ashura we should ALWAYS keep in mind our ultimate purpose of creation and life. We must come closer to Allah(SWT). Ashura is a shining example of Tawheed. Ashura's message cannot be understood properly without focusing on Tawheed and the ultimate purpose in life. We must achieve closeness to Allah(SWT) through our acts and intentions.

My following questions may turn some of you off. I apologize in advance, but please try to give me a chance. << that actually rhymes :) . But seriously, if anyone can provide me with straight answers, I promise not to raise an objection on certain Ashura rituals.

There can be no doubt that hearing the tale of Ashura evokes within us sympathy for Imam Hussain's cause and animosity towards his enemies. This naturally causes people to spontaneously shed tears and spontaneously beat their chest and head in disbelief. There can be no doubt about the permissibility of such actions as they are innate human nature. I have read traditions where poets would come to visit Imam as Sadiq(AS) to recite elegies for Imam Hussain. The Imam would weep during the recitation. This certainly lies within the realm of possibility and reason. The weeping would most probably be due to recognizing Imam Hussain's noble mission and feeling solidarity with him and sadness at the trials that Hussain(AS) faced. So there is no doubt in the permissibility of weeping for Hussain because it is a human act that is a manifestation of realizing Hussain's virtues against those of Yazid ibn Muawiah. As such, weeping can be said to bring people closer to Allah(SWT) because of weeping for Hussain reminds people of Hussain's ideals. And Hussain's ideals are Islam's ideals.

Does zanjeer zani really bring the believer closer to Allah(SWT). Does it improve our moral standards? Pardon me for bringing up the next visual. Would Imam Hussain hug the bloodied person doing zanjeer zani, hold the bloodied hand of this person in his, and raise it towards the world and say, "This is my Shia."

I am looking for a straight answer. Try not to point me to some arbitrary hadith which may or may not apply to this situation. The situation being a ritualized ceremony, not spontaneous, where men shed blood using improvised blades with the hopes of earning thawab.

(wasalam)

Thank you for hearing me out. I look forward to this matter being cleared up for me and everyone else who wonders about this ritual.

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minimadmonkey Newbie

minimadmonkey

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On a similar note, would it not be more productive if an individual decided to give up one harmful behavior for the love of Imam Hussain. First, he/she could try it for the first ten days. Then he/she could renew the pledge on Ashura and keep it until arbaeen. Then the next year, they could try giving up something else. Interestingly, 50 days from abstaining a behavior is almost sure to get it out of someone's system for good. Some examples could include, bur are certainly not limited to:

1. lying

2. backbiting

3. drinking

4. hijab(I emphasize this more for the men, meaning keeping one's glance low. its not fair to dump hijab solely on women)

5. beard (if possible)

6. gambling/games of chance

7. protecting one's private parts from other than one's lawful partner(I leave you all to interpret this Quranic injunction)

8. memorizing Suras

9. memorizing and acting upon hadith

10. excessive and harmfulvideo game playing, tv watching, and internet surfing

11. exercising

12. eating better portioned meals

13. something similar to masticating but which goes on in private(masticating means chewing)

14. learning new fiqh rulings

15. music/ghina

etc.

Edited by minimadmonkey
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