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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why did the daughter of imam Ali marry Omar?

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No such marriage took place. Astaghfirullah! She was NOT married to him, her Husband was Aun bin Ja’far, who was the son of Imam Ali’s(as) brother. Mathematically it can be proven that she was not ma

did ayatullah Khoie believe in this?

Yes he did. It's not surprising either because our hadiths indicate this.   عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ وَ حَمَّادٍ عَنْ زُرَارَةَ عَنْ أ

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I heard one book being read, which critisized islam.

In it were mentioned. Why did imam Alis daughter get married to Omar, if he is infallible.

Salam aleikum

Not everydbody believe that that is true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar%27s_marr..._to_Umm_Kulthum

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=234955080

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No such marriage took place. Astaghfirullah!

She was NOT married to him, her Husband was Aun bin Ja’far, who was the son of Imam Ali’s(as) brother.

Mathematically it can be proven that she was not married to Omar. According to the politicians, Umm Kulthum and Omar ibn al-Khattab were married in the year 17 Hijri, when Umm Kulthum was 4 or 5 years old. That means she would have been born around the year 12 or 13 Hijri. So you mean Imam Ali (as) allowed his daughter to marry at 4 or 5 years old?

If the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) died in the year 11 Hijri, and Fatimah al-Zahra (as) died 6 months later, how in the world could Umm Kuthum(as) have been born after the death of her Mother(as) ?? Even Sahih Bukhari confirms she died 6 months later. Sahih Bukhari:Volume:5 Book:59 Hadith:546, not to mention its also the hadith about Abu Bakr stealing her land that Allah(swt) gave to her. Quran: Surah:17 verse:26

Next they mark her(as) death in 50 Hijri, but how is that possible when she was present in Karbala when Imam Hussein (as) was martyred in the year 61 Hijri. Yes, she remarried her cousin Abdullah ibn Jafar ibn Abu Talib, after the death of her sister Zeinab(as), who was married to him before her. But that’s it, that is the only two times she married . So just who did Omar marry?-- > Umm Kalthum bint Abu bakr. Let me explain so it all makes sense.

Omar did not just have one wife named umm Kulthum, he had a total of FIVE wives by that name.

Umm Kulthum bint Jarwila Khizima, Umm Kulthum bint Uqba, Umm Kulthum bint Rahab, Umm Kulthum bint Asim, and then finally Umm Kulthum bint Abu Bakr.

She was born after the death of her father in the year 13 hijri, her mother is Asma bint Umays. She was pregnant with her when Abu Bakr died. They also had one more child before her, guess who, Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr. A true companion of Imam Ali(as). So just how did she get the title bint Ali.

Asma bint Umays Married Imam Ali(as) after the death of Abu bakr. Imam Ali(as) loved Muhammad ibn Abu bakr very much. So he married his mother shortly to take him in as his own. So naturally Imam Ali(as) moved them into his home. Now if you do the math that was done earlier on this Umm Kulthum, it works out according to the Sunni hadith.

Also note: Omar did not go to Imam Ali(as) to ask for her hand but he sent word to Aisha, her older sister, and she accepted. So in conclusion Umm Kulthum(as) bint Imam Ali(as) did NOT marry Omar. Thank you.

Ps. For the hypocrites that challenge this I have saved your Sunni hadith that prove this truth. I did not incorporate a lot of these references you can have a little faith I could be wrong or lying, so then you would question it and then i would drop them on you.

As Imam Ali(as) would say “Peace be upon those who deserve it”

http://www.shiacrescent.com/2008/09/12/umm...humas/#more-105

Edited by Akbar007
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I heard one book being read, which critisized islam.

In it were mentioned. Why did imam Alis daughter get married to Omar, if he is infallible.

Because umar was muslim, but not true calipha of his time and he was infallible as he can make mistakes as seen done by not giving his bay'a to Imam Ali (as).

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No such marriage took place. Astaghfirullah!

She was NOT married to him, her Husband was Aun bin Ja’far, who was the son of Imam Ali’s(as) brother.

Mathematically it can be proven that she was not married to Omar. According to the politicians, Umm Kulthum and Omar ibn al-Khattab were married in the year 17 Hijri, when Umm Kulthum was 4 or 5 years old. That means she would have been born around the year 12 or 13 Hijri. So you mean Imam Ali (as) allowed his daughter to marry at 4 or 5 years old?

If the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) died in the year 11 Hijri, and Fatimah al-Zahra (as) died 6 months later, how in the world could Umm Kuthum(as) have been born after the death of her Mother(as) ?? Even Sahih Bukhari confirms she died 6 months later. Sahih Bukhari:Volume:5 Book:59 Hadith:546, not to mention its also the hadith about Abu Bakr stealing her land that Allah(swt) gave to her. Quran: Surah:17 verse:26

Next they mark her(as) death in 50 Hijri, but how is that possible when she was present in Karbala when Imam Hussein (as) was martyred in the year 61 Hijri. Yes, she remarried her cousin Abdullah ibn Jafar ibn Abu Talib, after the death of her sister Zeinab(as), who was married to him before her. But that’s it, that is the only two times she married . So just who did Omar marry?-- > Umm Kalthum bint Abu bakr. Let me explain so it all makes sense.

Omar did not just have one wife named umm Kulthum, he had a total of FIVE wives by that name.

Umm Kulthum bint Jarwila Khizima, Umm Kulthum bint Uqba, Umm Kulthum bint Rahab, Umm Kulthum bint Asim, and then finally Umm Kulthum bint Abu Bakr.

She was born after the death of her father in the year 13 hijri, her mother is Asma bint Umays. She was pregnant with her when Abu Bakr died. They also had one more child before her, guess who, Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr. A true companion of Imam Ali(as). So just how did she get the title bint Ali.

Asma bint Umays Married Imam Ali(as) after the death of Abu bakr. Imam Ali(as) loved Muhammad ibn Abu bakr very much. So he married his mother shortly to take him in as his own. So naturally Imam Ali(as) moved them into his home. Now if you do the math that was done earlier on this Umm Kulthum, it works out according to the Sunni hadith.

Also note: Omar did not go to Imam Ali(as) to ask for her hand but he sent word to Aisha, her older sister, and she accepted. So in conclusion Umm Kulthum(as) bint Imam Ali(as) did NOT marry Omar. Thank you.

Ps. For the hypocrites that challenge this I have saved your Sunni hadith that prove this truth. I did not incorporate a lot of these references you can have a little faith I could be wrong or lying, so then you would question it and then i would drop them on you.

As Imam Ali(as) would say “Peace be upon those who deserve it”

http://www.shiacrescent.com/2008/09/12/umm...humas/#more-105

very informative, thx for the post

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Oh the sunnis say that he married her but did not done dakhla on her. The shia have statements about that are alot

If you asked about a narration we have. Our narrations state that Imam alyh alsalam was threten by Omar that he will destroy their family name and I will bring two witness to say that he stole and cut his hands.

Some other opinions like Ayashy say that he married her because of Taqeya from Imam Ali alyh Alsalam and she is as Aseya wife of Phroh.

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I heard Imam ali (as) was forced into the decision or it was a fabrication ie no such marriage took place. Some told me also it may have been another girl by another name. So its not clear what happened.

One good proof this didn't happen is the following; from: http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/umm...m/en/chap12.php

Quote- Offspring from this alleged marriage

Afriki's claim that Umme Kalthum binte Fatima (as) had two children called Zaid and Ruqayya is also a lie

We have already proven that the mother of Zaid was Umme Kalthum binte Jawal. If Nasibi such as Afriki are still going to insist that this was Umme Kalthum binte Fatima, then allow us to humiliate this supporter of Mu'awiya yet further:

Afriki claimed:

Ansar.org states:

Two children were born from this marriage, namely Zayd and Ruqayyah.

Reply One - Did Umar marry off his one-year-old daughter?

A point worthy of note is that despite Afriki's claim that Umme Kalthum binte Fatima was baligh (as we agree would be the case if this was indeed the Umme Kalthum) none of his Salaf Ulema would concur with his conclusion. If we rely on the events based on the sources of Ahl'ul Sunnah she was not baligh, and in fact was a milk fed child / not more than five years of age. Umar died in 23 Hijri, the alleged marriage was in 17 Hijri, which means that she was widowed at the age of eleven. Let us assume that at the earliest this Umme Kalthum attained puberty at the age of nine (21 Hijri). That would mean that in those two years she gave birth to Zaid and Ruqayya. Ruqayya's age would be no more than one.

This point needs to be considered for the esteemed Imam of Ahl'ul Sunnah Ibn Qutaybah in "al Maarif" page 80 (Egypt edition) states as follows:

"From the womb of Umme Kalthum, Umar became the father of a girl called Ruqayya, this is that girl whom Umar married to Ibrahim al Najm, and she died whilst living with him".

Perhaps Afriki could explain how Umar married his daughter to Ibrahim bin Najm when she was no more than one / or two years of age?

Reply Two - Umar's widow had not attained puberty when he died

Whilst we have only used guess work when suggesting that Umme Kalthum could have attained puberty at the age of nine, Imam of Ahl'ul Sunnah Allamah Zurqani in Sharh Muwwasab Volume 7 page 9 states:

"Umme Kalthum, wife of Umar did not attain puberty by the time that he had died".

When Umme Kalthum did not attain puberty whilst her husband was alive then how exactly did she conceive two Zaid and Ruqayya?

Reply three - Umar the khalifa was impotent!

Modern day Hanafi scholar Mufti Ghulam Rasul produces the following argument as proof that the marriage to Umme Kalthum (as) is a fabrication. He cites several authentic Sunni sources, we are quoting from his text Hasab aur Nasab Volume 5 page 216-217:

"Saleem narrates an episode that Umar would venture in disguise during the evenings on this occasion and overheard a woman telling her daughter to mix water into milk (selling) container. The girl said 'Mother doesn't Umar ibn al Khattab prohibit mixing water with milk? The woman replied 'He isn't watching us'. The girl said 'What is this, we openly obey him and we privately disobey him? In the morning he summoned his sons Abdullah, Ubaydullah and Asim and then called the girl and said before them 'If your father was physically capable then the first that I would do would be to marry this girl'. Asim then married the girl, and she gave birth to girl who became the mother of Umar ibn Abdul Aziz" (taken from Tarjha naza asth al majalis Volume 2 page 125). The author of Shadharath al Dhahab also narrated this in Volume 1 page 119 and Hafidh Ibn Katheer stated Umar praised the fact that he liked the girls knowledge and he married her to his son Asim and this girl became the maternal grand mother of Umar ibn Abdul Aziz (d.101 Hijri) [al Bidayah wa al Nihaya Volume 9 page 192].

This episode occurred during the Khilafath of Hadhrath Umar (ra), and the marriage of Umme Kalthum is also said to have occurred during his khilafath. If the marriage occurred with Umme binte 'Ali and Zaid and Ruqayya were born out of this relationship then offspring could have likewise been produced from marrying this girl. What is the reason that Umar was physically incapable to marry this girl (that did not mix water with milk) whilst he had the physical strength to marry Umme Kalthum binte 'Ali? When Umar did not marry the girl because he was unable to do so due on accounts of impotence, then he was likewise incapable of marrying Umme Kalthum binte 'Ali. The reality is that Umar's wife name was Umme Kalthum binte Jarwal, narrators used guesswork over the names, they replaced the name Umme Kalthum binte Jarwal with Umme Kalthum binte 'Ali, the fact is Umar Faruq did not marry Umme Kalthum binte 'Ali"

Hasab aur Nasab Volume 5 page 216-217

Now what more can we say? The reference makes it clear that:

Umar the khalifa was impotent

He refrained from marrying a woman whose qualities he liked on account of his impotence.

This being the case, then how could the same impotent Umar:

Contradict his reasons for not marrying and ask for the hand of Umme Kalthum binte 'Ali (as)?

Manage to produce two children?

If only poor Afriki had bothered to do some homework before making these stupid claims he would not have ended up looking as stupid as he does now!

Reply Four - Umar the khalifa had a phobia of sexual intercourse

We read in Izalathul Khifa Volume 1 page 373 the following testimony of Umar:

"I don't like to have intercourse since when I ejaculate the semen that I release recites Allah's tasbeeh".

Izalathul Khifa Volume 1 page 373

It seems that the Ahl'ul Sunnah are never quite sure how to praise Hadhrath Umar. In the previous narration he admits that he is impotent, but here Umar the khalifa states that his semen recites Allah (swt)'s tasbeeh. Umar was so absolved with administrative affairs during his reign that he developed a complete disdain of sexual intercourse with women. His self imposed monastic lifestyle was so extreme that his poor suffering wives also lost their sex drives - so much so that when it came to Umar seeking to determine how long a woman could live without a man (sexually) he sought the counsel of his daughter rather than his wives.

See:

Tareekh ul Khulafa, by Suyuti, page 142

Is it really believable that something as impure as semen recites Allah (swt)'s tasbeeh? We are sure that no one would ascribe to such a viewpoint, but clearly if Umar was willing to make such a filthy statement as a means of avoiding ejaculation, then why would the same Umar seek to risk spilling his 'holy' semen by marrying and producing further offspring?

Reply Five - Umar's objective was only to attain status via marriage not to benefit from conjugal relations

We read in Zakhair al Ukba page 168 that when Umar made the initial proposal and Imam 'Ali (as) rejected it, Umar pointed out:

"My intention is not that to attain those benefits connected with a wife, my intention is only to attain a closer link to Rasulullah's relatives".

When Umar's sole aim was to attain status and not to benefit from the conjugal relations that are connected with marriage then where did these two children come from? Was he lying at the time of making the proposal?

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assalamoallaikom

in addition to the article written by answering ansar, the link of which is given,,,,,

there is another very good book written in urdu by abdul kareem mushtaq (may his soul rest in peace ) by the name of

AQD E UMME KULSOOM

it can be downloaded in pdf from this site,,,,it is in urdu though

http://www.shiabooks.co.cc/

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I have doubts about Sunni mentality. But i feel sorry about those so called Shias who believe that such marriage occured. This is realy shameful for me least. She was Umm e Kulthum Bint e Abu Bakar who was married to Umer not Umme Kulthum Bint e Ali (as). How much these foolish people will degrade Muhammad (sawaw) and Ahl ul bait (as). Umer was not worthy to it. Even otherwise he was father of Hafsa who was grand mother of Hazrat Umm e Kulthum (as). So these foolish people do not think about it and just shout idiotic things how would a man of honor (if you believe Umer was) wish to marry grand daughter of his own daughter. VERY VERY FOOLISH :angry:

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The theory of taqiyyah that's presented to refute the historical marriage of Ali's (ra) daughter to Umar (ra) actually fails its purpose.

Taqiyyah is supposed to be a defense mechanism to hide certain shia beliefs in the event of blatant contradictions.

So it is interesting that some of the shi'ite narrations that prove this marriage took place actually *support* shia beliefs (while it is expected that narrations allegedly transmitted under taqiyyah should *contradict* shia beliefs).

For example, the alleged shia narration from Imam Ja'far (ra) states that she was a 'faraj' that was snatched from the Ahlul-Bayt.

So on the one hand it is showing that the marriage did indeed take place. But on the other hand, it suggests that Imam Ja'far (ra) was against the marriage since he used the word 'snatched' away. Had it been taqiyyah, he would have expressed his pleasure at the marriage.

The upshot: either the marriage did take place as per shia traditions, or it did take place. No, that wasn't a typo.

There's no two ways about it - and the shia scholars of old accepted it.

Like many other creedal matters within shi'ism, it evolved over time.

Those who deny this historical event have an inconsistent methodology. Either you follow the standard science of hadith and accept the narration, or you have to incorporate the theory of taqiyyah. If you choose the latter, there are unresolved contradictions remaining.

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Either you follow the standard science of hadith and accept the narration, or you have to incorporate the theory of taqiyyah. If you choose the latter, there are unresolved contradictions remaining.

Complete and utter nonsense !

Those who deny this historical event have an inconsistent methodology.

What makes you think it is a historical event?

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What makes you think it is a historical event?
Let's see... how about.. the fact that its authentically established in Sunni books and in Shia books?

The only escape for Shias *could* have been the excuse of taqiyyah, but as I mentioned above, it doesn't quite work in this case as you're left with inconsistencies.

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The theory of taqiyyah that's presented to refute the historical marriage of Ali's ra.gif daughter to Umar ra.gif actually fails its purpose

I have never seen anyone say that the narrations were said in taqiyyah. Those that refer to taqiyyah (including what has been mentioned in this thread) usually mean taqiyyah of Imam Ali [as] himself in allowing the marriage to occur (if it did occur), not taqiyyah in those particular hadith.

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This is what I believe and I will be honest, first, the dates dont match up, and I was taught that if a hadith goes against common sense then it is a fabicated hadith, more than likely, if we have a hadith that says sea water is palatable, yet we know sea water will kill you, then we know it is a fabricated hadith, for some reason, it seems to me that we got these fabricated hadith stating that Imam Ali (as) 's daughter married to Umar, I dont know how and I dont know why but these hadith go against all common sense, and against historical facts when it comes to the dates of the so-called marriage. So, I will say that anyone can make up sahih chains of narrations and circulate fabrications for their own evil purposes, ie: this confuses the shia as to how good or bad Umar was and makes some shia less likely to fulfill their religious obligations to curse him, and it makes the ignorant layman sunni feel better about the evil personages they follow. it is in the sunnis best interest to do this, and they are they shaytan who is bent on destoying Islam. We simply cannot base our religious beliefs upon ahadith that go against common sense and historical facts.

Edited by zainab_
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I have never seen anyone say that the narrations were said in taqiyyah. Those that refer to taqiyyah (including what has been mentioned in this thread) usually mean taqiyyah of Imam Ali [as] himself in allowing the marriage to occur (if it did occur), not taqiyyah in those particular hadith.
That would indeed be more consistent, and reduce the contradiction.

However, as you can see, some of the people in this thread believe otherwise!

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I asked my Imam yestarday about this and he said it did happen but Ali (as) was under massive political pressure at the time. Who care anyway just because Omar was bad doesnt mean their children had to be.

Edited by ImamAliwabas
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Nah, i am one of those shias who outright deny this BS allegation by the yazeedis against the Holy daughter of the Holy Imam.

Some of our ancient shia scholers wrote quite a bit about this and some said the reasons as why it happened ,so it cant be totally false. simply denying the whole event to make us feel better is cutting and hiding from history. I hate Omar but after reading and asking about it makes believe this marriage may have happened. It doesnt change my faith or my view on islam im still and always will be a shia.

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If Ladies Ruqayyah (ra) and Zainab (ra) are daughters of the Prophet (pbuh) then that particular Lady Umm al-Kulthoom (ra) was a daughter of Imam Ali (as) indeed, but not biological daughters. :)

Shia brothers and sisters should research a bit more on that and you'll find out.

Since these little anecdotes are relentlessly repeated here on SC with ever newer threads by the Sunnis, I'm sure that if you use the search feature you'll find how the last thread about this allegation got dismantled here. :D Or you can also check http://www.answering-ansar.org who have dispelled this myth decisively.

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(i am a sunni hanafi ghulam e aali mohammed(A). just to make it clear that i am not shia although i like shia brothers as they use reason unlike literalist nasibi slafis who live in the bubble of ibn taymiya and have a limited God)

however, there are many sunni ulema who have held the opinion that sayyeda Umm e kulusm bint Ali(A) never was married to hazrat Umer®. there are mant reasons but the one i would like to discuss is that if you believe in the nikah then hazrat umer's honour is badly damaged. why? just look at those narrations which mention the whole episode and you'll see.

as for taha, i dare you to bring those reports as they are in the books then we will see, what kind of image does it portray of hazrat umer®. more later when you reply. 121.

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its a complete lie....how low can people fall...???

why would imam ali (a.s) marry his daughter to omer????

out of all the people why omer???? sorry to say but doesnt make any sense...

Same reason why Imam Ali's children were named after men who are apparently boogey men according to some... hasha.

Can anyone rattle off the names of all of Imam Ali's (ra) children?

I did ask this in the other thread too.

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Same reason why Imam Ali's children were named after men who are apparently boogey men according to some... hasha.

Can anyone rattle off the names of all of Imam Ali's (ra) children?

I did ask this in the other thread too.

man u guyz keep coming here one by one and regurgitate the same nonsense ur seniors keep feeding you with. I don't blame you though...Anyways, here's a way to save your time and our time www.answering-ansar.org , all your doubts answered in detail. All the best!

masalama

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its a complete lie....how low can people fall...???

why would imam ali (a.s) marry his daughter to omer????

out of all the people why omer???? sorry to say but doesnt make any sense...

Then why would the PRophet (sw) let himself marry the "archenemy" of Islam, whose father was also an "archenemy" of Islam?

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