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skylight1

Hezbollah condemns SOFA pact

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http://www.almanar.com.lb/NewsSite/NewsDet...amp;language=en

Al-Manar TV reports that while the Iraqi parliament was likely to approve a "suspicious" pact with the US occupation forces allowing them to stay in the country for another three years, Hezbollah finally broke its silence on Thursday and denounced the pact as harmful and called on all Iraqi MPs to assume their responsibilities and reject it as soon as possible.

In a statement it released, Hezbollah emphasized that the US occupation of Iraq actually represents a big crime and an international terrorism against the Iraqi people as well as the region's people "who are still suffering from the occupation's various repercussions at all levels."

The Resistance movement, known to oppose the occupation and haughtiness policies, went on to affirm that all pressures the US was seeking to exert in order to "polish" its picture have actually failed in their mission. "All pressures would lead to more damages and disadvantages for the occupation," Hezbollah's statement read, adding that the security pact, in its actual form, will lead, in its turn, to additional negative impact on Iraq and its people.

Hezbollah pointed out that the pact under question would, if adopted, give the US occupation a supplementary opportunity to organize its domination and plunder the generous country's fortunes.

"What's required at this moment is not to reward the occupation and give it presents or legitimacy," Hezbollah's statement stressed, explaining that "regardless of all the justifications that anyone could give to legalize the occupation, the US withdrawal without conditions remains the major interest for the Iraqi people."

"Iraqis have suffered a lot and paid big sacrifices, they fought against occupation at the most difficult circumstances and strived to achieve the sovereignty and independence of their country," Hezbollah pointed out, recalling how Iraqis have also rejected foreign tutelage.

The Resistance group concluded its statement by calling on members of the Iraqi parliament to reject the pact, drawing their attention to its negative effects on the Iraqi sovereignty, unity as well as fate and future.

Hezbollah called upon the MPs to take such a "courageous" and "historic" position, assuring them of its positive effects on the country "that deserves stability, unity and honorable life."

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please remind me what hezbullah has got to do with iraq and iraqis?! the iraqis do whatever that is in their interest and this doesnt concern any foreigners. one more time this is the same hezbullah that its leader said before the american "occupation" in iraq: the iraqis should fight alongside saddam against the americans. this is politics and in politics everyone looks for his own interests only and this includes iran and hezbullah too!

wallahu a3lam

Edited by Najafi.

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The entire region has everything to do with Iraq, because the puppet regime over there wants to invite the barbaric imperialist power to stay in Iraq. The same people who are part and parcel of the zionist entity, and who are intent on disrupting the entire region. Such a decision is everyone's business, not just of the Iraqis, especially given that the US will and has used Iraq as a staging ground to attack others.

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iraq belongs to iraqis and it is only the iraqis who decide what happens in iraq. have you seen the iraqi government for example interfering in the lebanese governtment's issues or telling iran what to do regarding its nuclear bomb (nuclear power as the iranians say). wouldnt this concern the region? i am sorry to tell you this but us already has enough bases and forces in middle east and im afraid you cant do nothing about it. if they are going to stay or leave iraq build or demolish their bases has nothing to do with hezbullah because it is simply in iraq. if hezbullah is very unhappy about this then maybe this time they can take two american soldiers as hostages and start another war.

wallahu a3lam

Edited by Najafi.

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If I became rich after the US invasion of Iraq, I'd support them even if they made Iraq the 51st State and annexed half of it to Russia.

I wonder what the Iraqi people think of the SOFA, and not those ones being paid to jump infront of cameras in favor of it, rather the Iraqis who were tortured for no reason, the Iraqis who lost their husband or father at the hands of the US, and the Iraqi children who died of US sanctions.

I don't care what the elites think, that's irrelevant, personal interests have no place in this equation.

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remember that iraq has a democratic government. so logically whatever the government and parliament decides is similar to what the people will decide.

wallahu a3lam

Edited by Najafi.

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please remind me what hezbullah has got to do with iraq and iraqis?! the iraqis do whatever that is in their interest and this doesnt concern any foreigners. one more time this is the same hezbullah that its leader said before the american "occupation" in iraq: the iraqis should fight alongside saddam against the americans. this is politics and in politics everyone looks for his own interests only and this includes iran and hezbullah too!

wallahu a3lam

everything is soooo interrelated. it is about domination and controlling the middle east and every single one of us regardless of where we live have to see the zionist enterprise and the american enterprise as two fangs of the same beast.

robert fisk has the discourse down. he sees through the ruse. below is an excerpt of an interview he gave. you will find this interview here:

FISK: It was a baker in Baghdad who asked me this very obvious question. He said, “Why are you”—“you” meaning Western military—“Why are you in Kazakhstan and Tajikistan, French air base at Dushanbe running close as support for the British in Helmand province in Afghanistan? Why are your people going into Pakistan? Why are you in Afghanistan and Iraq? Why are you in Turkey? Why are you in Jordan and Egypt and Algeria? US Special Forces have a base outside Tamanrasset in the southern Sahara. Why are you in Bahrain? Why are you in Oman? Why are you in Yemen? Why are you in Qatar? Biggest US air base.” I didn’t have a reply.

But I was struck when I was having lunch on the West Coast a few days ago, by a very educated lady sitting next to me, saying, “But the Muslims wanted to take over the world, and they had already taken over France.” I mean, how does this happen? I mean, she might have told me that Martians had landed in New Mexico, only thing you could do to counter that kind of argument. It looks like somehow we’re on a brainwashing trip. And we’ve all bought the narrative. You know, we even have Mrs. Palin talking about victory in Iraq. It doesn’t feel it if you go to Iraq. It doesn’t feel it if you live there.

AMY GOODMAN: She also has talked about Iraq as being God’s war.

ROBERT FISK: Yeah, well, we’ve had some generals who’ve talked about that, too—haven’t we?—and kept their uniform on in church when they said it. You know, more and more, I look back on the early statements by bin Laden, statements we never actually read. Th....

here is some more fisk. fisk's address starts aprox. 1/3 into the program. this is really good, he gave this address at MPAC a couple years ago. iraq certainly needs to act in its self interest, but you can hardly look at it in isolation.

here is an excerpt:

FISK: I’m going to read you a very brief paragraph by Winston Churchill, not about the Battle of Britain. It is Churchill prophesying the future from 1937, eleven years before the Nakba. This is Winston Churchill writing in a totally forgotten essay. He reflected upon the future and wrote of the impossibility of a partitioned Palestine. And he talked of how, I quote—this is Winston Churchill in 1937—“The wealthy, crowded, progressive Jewish state”—see, it doesn’t exist yet, but he’s already getting it right—“lies in the plains and on the sea coast of Palestine. Around it, in the hills and the uplands, stretching far and wide into the illimitable deserts, the warlike Arabs of Syria of Transjordania, of Arabia, backed by the armed forces of Iraq, offer the ceaseless menace of war. To maintain itself,”—1937, remember,—“To maintain itself, the Jewish state will have to be armed to the teeth and must bring in every able-bodied man to strengthen its army. But how long will this process be allowed to continue by the great Arab populations in Iraq and Palestine? Can it be expected that the Arabs would stand by impassively and watch the building up, with Jewish world capital and resources, of a Jewish army, equipped with the most deadly weapons of war until it was strong enough not to be afraid of them? And if ever the Jewish army reached that point, who can be sure,” Churchill asked, “that, cramped within their narrow limits, they would not plunge out into the new undeveloped lands that lay around them?”

“Ouch,” I said when I read that. 1937.

absolutely hezbollah has something to say about iraq.

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what you need to understand is the fact that in politics everyone is looking for his own interests only. i can remember a while ago when sayed khamenei the supreme leader of iran said he will be the first person to open the negotiations with "america" (which is regarded as the great satan in iran) when the "right time" comes and is in the "interest of iran".

likewise in iraq the iraqis will agree or disagree with sofa depending on the interest of iraq and iraqis.

and when hezbullah condenms sofa, looking at it politically they must be concerned only because their interests are in danger. so why should iraqis care about the interest of those who prefered saddam to be in power and said that we should fight alongside him against the americans! if they dont care about the interest of iraq and iraqis then i dont see a reason for iraqis to care about their interests.

wallahu a3lam

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To the Najafi!

Iraq is not for IRAQIS alone. Shias have affiliation to the name due to holy shrines of Imams and sons of Imams from north to south. Do you think , you can contain Najaf within the so-called present geography of Iraq?

Personally I don't bother about the SOFA topic as the pact already undergone several changes and will continue to be amended and there is no guarantee US is going to leave geography of PRESENT Iraq, whether its being signed or not signed , they will be sitting in 30 Major Bases/550 other bases.

Even if they will be pushed out of Arabstan/Sistan , Kurdistan is happy to make WHOLE of it into a huge American base, so forget about they will leave Iraq anytime in our life.

If Iraq is for WHITE HOUSE ADMIN, BLACK WATER & OIL CARTELS ; WAR & TRIBAL LORDS why not it is for Shias who have heartiest attachment due to sanctuaries. Do you think I need Iraqi visa to land in Najaf? Are you to STOP my entrance to Najaf & Karbala? Are you the custodian?

And you know how much Ayatollah is happy of your democracy and MPs who have left Iraq at this critical moment. We should not discuss SOFA , we are discussing sovereignty.

SOFA is a done deal, its signed off DEAL and already stamped by much happy Kurdish FM of a fragile democracy. IRAQ as drumpeated democratic state is bound to its clauses and if yoour entire parliament will reject it, we are not gonna STOP.

I hope OBAMA to topple and hang present dictators of dictated democratic imprisoned IRAQ within GZ State of STATE DEPARTMENT.

2008-11-21T141142Z_01_BAG327_RTRIDSP_2_IRAQ_articleimage.jpg

A demonstrator slaps an effigy of U.S. President George W. Bush with a sandal during a rally at Firdos square in Baghdad

In Firdos Square, the Sadrist protesters erected an effigy of the outgoing U.S. president, carrying a briefcase with the words "The pact of subservience and shame." They hurled bottles at it, toppled it, tore it to pieces and set it on fire.

Asked about the protests, U.S. State Department spokesman Robert Wood said, "Iraq is really becoming a democracy, this is the kind of stuff that happens in democracies."

Edited by iraqi-4-lyf

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what you need to understand is the fact that in politics everyone is looking for his own interests only.

wallahu a3lam

the most terse statement yet about politics in 20th C arabia. the purchase of individual short term security in exchange for giving up the claim to long-term national sovereignty.

there are166,000,000 arabs in Egypt, KSA, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon. there are 7,300,000 israelis. that's a difference of nearly 160 MILLION! if everyone could just get on the same page...

if israel were not having it's existential crisis, the US would have no need to fully and completely dominate the middle east. if oil was the singular concern, there are ways other than domination to continue its free flow. afterall, the middle east needs to sell oil every bit as much as the world economy needs to buy it.

therefore, israel is THE concern. israel's power is inversely related to iraq's power. the USA will not intentionally act in a way that will negatively effect isreal's relative power (the emergence of the so-called shia crescent was an unintended, even if predictable, consequence). therefore SOFA in some way benefits israel or in some way buys time for israel. ironically, i think it also buys time for the solidification of shia power in iraq. let's pray to Allah that they (our shias) are responsible with that power. the iraqis need to look at everything with an eye towards a broader middle east strategy that will favor the muslims regardless of nationality, and this necessarily entails looking beyond the regime's or even the nation's interest. this is where hizbollah has a legitimate right to interject. let their voice be heard.

Edited by Photi

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Najafi: Explain how legitimizing America's illegal occupation of Iraq is in the Iraqi people's interests.

illegal? as far as i remember it was the iraqi oppositions outside the iraq who sat down so many times with the americans till they convinced them to remove saddam. and as for after removing the saddam i believe the democratic iraqi government has allowed the troops to be in iraq for a while.

To the Najafi!

Iraq is not for IRAQIS alone. Shias have affiliation to the name due to holy shrines of Imams and sons of Imams from north to south. Do you think , you can contain Najaf within the so-called present geography of Iraq?

Personally I don't bother about the SOFA topic as the pact already undergone several changes and will continue to be amended and there is no guarantee US is going to leave geography of PRESENT Iraq, whether its being signed or not signed , they will be sitting in 30 Major Bases/550 other bases.

Even if they will be pushed out of Arabstan/Sistan , Kurdistan is happy to make WHOLE of it into a huge American base, so forget about they will leave Iraq anytime in our life.

If Iraq is for WHITE HOUSE ADMIN, BLACK WATER & OIL CARTELS ; WAR & TRIBAL LORDS why not it is for Shias who have heartiest attachment due to sanctuaries. Do you think I need Iraqi visa to land in Najaf? Are you to STOP my entrance to Najaf & Karbala? Are you the custodian?

And you know how much Ayatollah is happy of your democracy and MPs who have left Iraq at this critical moment. We should not discuss SOFA , we are discussing sovereignty.

SOFA is a done deal, its signed off DEAL and already stamped by much happy Kurdish FM of a fragile democracy. IRAQ as drumpeated democratic state is bound to its clauses and if yoour entire parliament will reject it, we are not gonna STOP.

I hope OBAMA to topple and hang present dictators of dictated democratic imprisoned IRAQ within GZ State of STATE DEPARTMENT.

i am saying this one more time so concentrate hard so you may start to understand because i am really not bothered to repeat my self one more time. iraq is for iraqis. if the rest of the shias are not iraqis then i guess they are not lucky enough and that doesnt give them an excuse to interfere in the iraqi affairs. if some shias are very concerned about the shrines in iraq then i suggest them to take their concern to iran (as we have shrines in iran too) and do something about the nuclear activities of iran. as for iraq we have the marja3eeya of najaf to take care of such things.

iraq is not for white house nor is it for the private contractors you mentioned! :S;

just like you need a visa to enter iran if you are not iranian then if you are not iraqi then yes you need a visa to enter iraq otherwise you will be stopped at the border by the iraqi officer.

which ayatullah are you talking about?

"Iraq's most influential Shiite cleric indicated Friday he would not stand in the way a long-term U.S. security deal if it's approved by the country's democratic institutions, the prime minister said."

http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=1&id=14358

sofa is a done deal!? yea right thats why it took them 7 months to come to an agreement!

i hope god guides some people!

the most terse statement yet about politics in 20th C arabia. the purchase of individual short term security in exchange for giving up the claim to long-term national sovereignty.

there are166,000,000 arabs in Egypt, KSA, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon. there are 7,300,000 israelis. that's a difference of nearly 160 MILLION! if everyone could just get on the same page...

if israel were not having it's existential crisis, the US would have no need to fully and completely dominate the middle east. if oil was the singular concern, there are ways other than domination to continue its free flow. afterall, the middle east needs to sell oil every bit as much as the world economy needs to buy it.

therefore, israel is THE concern. israel's power is inversely related to iraq's power. the USA will not intentionally act in a way that will negatively effect isreal's relative power (the emergence of the so-called shia crescent was an unintended, even if predictable, consequence). therefore SOFA in some way benefits israel or in some way buys time for israel. ironically, i think it also buys time for the solidification of shia power in iraq. let's pray to Allah that they (our shias) are responsible with that power. the iraqis need to look at everything with an eye towards a broader middle east strategy that will favor the muslims regardless of nationality, and this necessarily entails looking beyond the regime's or even the nation's interest. this is where hizbollah has a legitimate right to interject. let their voice be heard.

as said before whatever hezbullah is saying is because they are looking for their own interests only. so why should iraqis care about the interest of hezbullah when hezbullah didnt care about the interest of iraqis pre-war.

and regarding israel just like sayed khamenei would have relations with the us if it is in the interest of iran then why cant iraq have relations with isreal if it is in the interest or iraq!? oh and please care to tell me how the us war in iraq has benefitted the israeli state?! hypocrisy!!

wallahu a3lam

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Najafi

You look like sectarian guy. You are discriminating us on grounds of nationalities. Sad to say

160K US Forces don't need any visa to enter, stay and leave present Maliki Iraq.

100K Mercenaries/Pvt defence contractors don't need any sort of Iraqi visa, they don't line up with Iraqis and they can check your baggage , ask you to line up, and the dog handlers can check you at any of check point from Najaf to BIAP with multinational dogs.

Is that all suits to your Najafi ISLAM. Don't label you as Najafi, I doubt you are Najafi by way of your thinking.

SOFA is a dead deal which has undergone several changes even before its implementation and one can ascertain that 18 pages doc is not gonna chnage your fate.

In Iraq the US will keep the Bases and there will be about two American Armored Divisions in Kurdistan ten years from now.... long after Obama/Bush sponsored shi`iete dictators is gone.

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please remind me what hezbullah has got to do with iraq and iraqis?! the iraqis do whatever that is in their interest and this doesnt concern any foreigners. one more time this is the same hezbullah that its leader said before the american "occupation" in iraq: the iraqis should fight alongside saddam against the americans. this is politics and in politics everyone looks for his own interests only and this includes iran and hezbullah too!

wallahu a3lam

Narrow-minded, petty nationalism prevails once again. We're all brothers in the Shia ummah - that is, of course, until Nasrallah talks about Iraq. At that point - HOW DARE HE AND HEZBOLLAH VOICE THEIR OPINION! You're probably one of the people who shouted anti-Israeli and pro-Hezbollah slogans during the 2006 war as well - yet they're not good enough to voice concerns against neo-colonial efforts by the US in Iraq. The twisted logic of nationalists in Iran, Iraq or wherever is that they can be heroic Hezbollah spokespeople only when their national interests are served - as soon as Hezbollah prevail, their opinion is null and void because they are not Iraqi.

I wish I could find the post made by a brother on here a while back, where he compared Iran, Lebanon and Iraq with each other. He probably summed it up better than anyone ever could.

Edited by Iqra

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A little search shows Hizabollah mentor Ayatollah went so far in condemning the SOFA deal that he used words of "Harram", while the last stand by the GRAND Ayatollah is thae he left it to Parliament but later he became sad as most of MPs fled the country , I hope Iraq must get courageous MPs like Najafo who can stand like a rock whetehr they are positive or negative in their approach.

How can MPs say yes to a deadly deal which is already proclaimed as "Harram" by Ayatollah? Where is the dividing line between Hallal and Harram-HAQ & BATIL? ZAHIR /BATIN?

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Najafi

You look like sectarian guy. You are discriminating us on grounds of nationalities. Sad to say

160K US Forces don't need any visa to enter, stay and leave present Maliki Iraq.

100K Mercenaries/Pvt defence contractors don't need any sort of Iraqi visa, they don't line up with Iraqis and they can check your baggage , ask you to line up, and the dog handlers can check you at any of check point from Najaf to BIAP with multinational dogs.

Is that all suits to your Najafi ISLAM. Don't label you as Najafi, I doubt you are Najafi by way of your thinking.

SOFA is a dead deal which has undergone several changes even before its implementation and one can ascertain that 18 pages doc is not gonna chnage your fate.

In Iraq the US will keep the Bases and there will be about two American Armored Divisions in Kurdistan ten years from now.... long after Obama/Bush sponsored shi`iete dictators is gone.

discriminating?! dont be silly for example this is like saying britain rquires me to get a visa to enter the country but the british dont need one. therefore britain is discriminating. that is just stupid!!

regarding the foreign forces as said before the democratic iraqi government has allowed them to stay so they are not doing anything illegal.

as for the dogs sorry but you are very narrow minded and childish. even iran which is a so called "islamic state" uses dogs for the police.

i cant care less about what you think or what you doubt!

like it or not the ever more powerful iraqi government can kick out the americans when they want. whether they do it or not and when they do it all depends on the situation in iraq.

Narrow-minded, petty nationalism prevails once again. We're all brothers in the Shia ummah - that is, of course, until Nasrallah talks about Iraq. At that point - HOW DARE HE AND HEZBOLLAH VOICE THEIR OPINION! You're probably one of the people who shouted anti-Israeli and pro-Hezbollah slogans during the 2006 war as well - yet they're not good enough to voice concerns against neo-colonial efforts by the US in Iraq. The twisted logic of nationalists in Iran, Iraq or wherever is that they can be heroic Hezbollah spokespeople only when their national interests are served - as soon as Hezbollah prevail, their opinion is null and void because they are not Iraqi.

I wish I could find the post made by a brother on here a while back, where he compared Iran, Lebanon and Iraq with each other. He probably summed it up better than anyone ever could.

what you dont understand is that the religion is different to politics. shias are my brothers but if they are corssing their limits i wouldnt keep quiet just for the sake of them being shias.

i wish your brain could figure the difference between "voicing your opinion" and "dictating your opinions to others".

and dont worry i wasnt one of the ones who were shouting anti israeli and pro hezbullah slogans during the hezbullah-israel war. i guess you need to refer to the ayah in quran which says:

[49:12] O you who believe, avoid most of suspicion, for surely suspicion in some cases is sin!

Again, how exactly does this serve the interests of Iraqi people? I never got an answer.

sofa? it allows the american troops to stay in iraq for another 3 years and help the iraqi army to fight the terrorists as well as training them. if i am not mistaken at the same time sofa states that the troops should leave the cities and towns by mid 2009 which is an improvement.

A little search shows Hizabollah mentor Ayatollah went so far in condemning the SOFA deal that he used words of "Harram", while the last stand by the GRAND Ayatollah is thae he left it to Parliament but later he became sad as most of MPs fled the country , I hope Iraq must get courageous MPs like Najafo who can stand like a rock whetehr they are positive or negative in their approach.

How can MPs say yes to a deadly deal which is already proclaimed as "Harram" by Ayatollah? Where is the dividing line between Hallal and Harram-HAQ & BATIL? ZAHIR /BATIN?

what you seem to miss is that the conditions in sofa have changed so much since 7 months ago so obviously i wouldnt be surprised if sayed sistani or anyone else changes his mind. plus may i remind you that the same ayatullah believes in no political role for himself!

as said the conditions of sofa have changed alot!!

wallahu a3lam

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Its now more then 2075 days that US forces invaded and training, arming so-called Iraqi security forces, awakening councils. Do they and your local servants/agents have a majic stick that they will stand on their own united on Dec31st/2011-mid night.

If your MODEL can't stand even with direct US spport , how can you face after their leaving as being feared by the so-called Defence Minister.

What Americans have done in these 2075 days:

Change the titile of ex Saddam marauders, Ba`athist to work under the name of Awakening Councl.

They gave full freedom to Kurdistan and they are doing deals in various industries i/c recent arm deal with Romania.

Maliki is creating his own lethal strong Militia of Arab Shi`iete WAR/TRIBAL lords, who have recently raised voices in Karbala in favour of him.

Ex popular most strong Mehdi Militia will continue to work under the new name.

It will be much better to announce to annex Baghdad with Washington as TODAYS Iraq is not yet soverighn , independent and free nation.

As long as your model minister will be fearing and scaring of rival militants , Americans will continue rule over you guys. This is exactly what State Department's intelligence analysts have planned for you.

Iraq will remain a fragile, a weaker broken nation and they will continue calling pentagon long time after Obama finish his 2nd term.

Either accept American monopoly . hegemony due to your weaknesses or ask them to leave.

Iraqis are smart, sober and brave nation but they are being ruled by dictators, agents. Enmass resignation is the best option as was in 1948.

Lets hope a good day. Drink a bitter poison rather then do suicidal so-called sovereign decisions to keep associate with American Masters.

I will be more happy if these dictators leave IRAQ name aside and annouce Baghdad's annexure with Washington for ever as thats the ground reality and their internal desires and their personal interests can be fulfilled more comfortably.

I will support you and will be first one to join your SOLDIERS OF HEAVEN for last battle.

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as said before whatever hezbullah is saying is because they are looking for their own interests only. so why should iraqis care about the interest of hezbullah when hezbullah didnt care about the interest of iraqis pre-war.

and regarding israel just like sayed khamenei would have relations with the us if it is in the interest of iran then why cant iraq have relations with isreal if it is in the interest or iraq!? oh and please care to tell me how the us war in iraq has benefitted the israeli state?! hypocrisy!!

wallahu a3lam

i am not trying to say that iraq should not act in its interest. i am saying that its interest is fundamentally tied into the regional interest. given the arab world's central importance to the islamic world, we can by extension say that iraq's interest is intertwined with the islamic interest generally. the islamic interest, as i perceive it, should be sovereignty, genuine sovereignty, for all muslim nations even if (oh no!) those musim nations have to work together to achieve that end. on this basis, it is not just iraq who has something to say about iraq.

as for how israel has benefitted, it is quite clear that saddam as a nationalist pan-arabist (pan-arabist of couse as long as the arabs saw him as their leader) was an open enemy to israel. getting rid of him got rid of a powerful albeit neutered enemy of israel. as long as the new regime is "responsible" with their status as leaders of iraq, israel is more secure, where 'responsible' means that iraq can have no political position outside of itself.

if you read the SOFA document, the only true sovereignty is given to the United States forces on official duty regardless of where on Iraqi soil they may be. in a sense, it is like a fluid sovereign united states enclave that moves in tandem with and is intrinsic to "official US duty." sounds to me like iraq remains a client state.

from here:

The United States shall have the primary right to exercise jurisdiction over members of

the United States Forces and of the civilian component for matters arising inside agreed

facilities and areas; during duty status outside agreed facilities and areas; and in

circumstances not covered by paragraph 1.

At the request of either Party, the Parties shall assist each other in the investigation of

incidents and the collection and exchange of evidence to ensure the due course of justice.

Members of the United States Forces and of the civilian component arrested or detained

by Iraqi authorities shall be notified immediately to United States Forces authorities and

handed over to them within 24 hours from the time of detention or arrest. Where Iraq

exercises jurisdiction pursuant to paragraph 1 of this Article, custody of an accused

member of the United States Forces or of the civilian component shall reside with United

States Forces authorities. United States Forces authorities shall make such accused

persons available to the Iraqi authorities for purposes of investigation and trial.

SOFA does give power to Iraq to demand 100% withdrawal of US forces at any time. it remains to be seen whether the US will honor that. i have my doubts.

here is what Syed Fadlullah says about the attempts at colonialism and imperialism in the region and why it should be everyone's business:

[this is from his biography on his official website]

The Sayyid realized early on the central role of the Palestinian cause and considered the Zionist occupation of Palestine a prelude to the invasion of other Muslim and Arab countries. The Sayyid sees the Glorious Quran as a unifying book and a book of unity. He believes that the threat against the Arabs and Muslims is one and the same. His strategy in this field is based on his belief that the enemy tries to prevent any political social or even cultural attempts to draw Muslims closer. Thus the cause of Islamic unity is, in his view, as important as the liberation from the hegemony of certain arrogant international powers, since any kind of strength the Muslims acquire will undermine the latters` vital interests.

assuming iraq is an independent iraqi concern whose national interest is limited to the borders of iraq is petty nationalism, given the history and the reality. i don't trust the imperial powers. they give no reason to believe they have anything but their own interests at heart.

Edited by Photi

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what you dont understand is that the religion is different to politics. shias are my brothers but if they are corssing their limits i wouldnt keep quiet just for the sake of them being shias.

Alot of Marjae would disagree with you there.

i wish your brain could figure the difference between "voicing your opinion" and "dictating your opinions to others".

You seem to have a problem doing that yourself.

and dont worry i wasnt one of the ones who were shouting anti israeli and pro hezbullah slogans during the hezbullah-israel war. i guess you need to refer to the ayah in quran which says:

[49:12] O you who believe, avoid most of suspicion, for surely suspicion in some cases is sin!

That Aya has been taken totally out of context. Do a better job of rationalising your chauvanistic approach to life.

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Najafi probably belongs to this ultra-pro-American puppet faction -wants to place the entire population of Iraq under American rule, one way or the other.

Starkly pro-American minister threatens Iraqi parliament

The Raw Story

"Iraq's defense minister Abdul Qadir Muhammed Jassim threatened to declare a state of emergency if Iraq's parliament refused to sign an accord allowing US troops to stay in the country for three more years.

His rhetoric was eerily in tune with Bush Administration officials' comments on domestic security and Iran, echoing language used by the Administration to bolster support for the Iraq war.

If the US withdraws, he said, "we shall wait for a strike against us, in our midst." He added that foreign intelligence services may be attempting to infiltrate Iraqi affairs -- a shot at Iran -- an identical charge made by US officials. A state of emergency could allow Iraq's government to dissolve parliament.

Jassim was a general in Saddam Hussein's army who was demoted after opposing a 1980 invasion of Kuwait and spent several years in jail. Serving under Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki , His recent comments have suggested an unusual sycophancy toward US policy and General David Petraeus in particular. In October, Jassim floated the idea of naming the first tank delivered to the Iraqi army after General Petraeus."I think it would be suitable to name the first tank to arrive in General Petraeus’s name," he said at a recent ceremony honoring America's senior Iraqi general. "When they have M1 tanks working with them and supporting them they will remember General Petraeus.”......"

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Najafi is right. This is a decision for the Iraqi people to make ultimately even though it concerns so many others.

In my opinion, the SOFA in itself isn't that bad, although there are some things left to be desired, such as on the issue of Iraqi jurisdiction on Occupation soldiers and security contractors.

However, I doubt the US will really honor it and will twist arms behind the scenes to try to get what they want. It is possible that if the politicians held out longer and bargained a little harder, they may've been able to get more in the contract.

However, on the positive side, a timetable is in writing and so is the matter of bases and attacking neighbors using Iraqi territory; and, that is in the interest of Iraq and its neighbors.

so-called "Najafi" in this thread is a Zionist mossad agent, May Allah(SWT) curse this evil scumbag. He openly is against the Mujahideen in Hizbullah, the only person who would hold such views is a Zionist punk that wants to start drama on this site.

This is a lie and exaggeration. You should refrain from this kind of talk.

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Its now more then 2075 days that US forces invaded and training, arming so-called Iraqi security forces, awakening councils. Do they and your local servants/agents have a majic stick that they will stand on their own united on Dec31st/2011-mid night.

do you want to count the minutes too im sure you will be able to get a bigger figure! :)

if you use your brain you will realise that the iraqi government and army is getting stronger day by day. and they proved this well during the battle with the illigal mehdi army in basra.

If your MODEL can't stand even with direct US spport , how can you face after their leaving as being feared by the so-called Defence Minister.

as i said they are getting stronger day by day segat!!

What Americans have done in these 2075 days:

Change the titile of ex Saddam marauders, Ba`athist to work under the name of Awakening Councl.

They gave full freedom to Kurdistan and they are doing deals in various industries i/c recent arm deal with Romania.

Maliki is creating his own lethal strong Militia of Arab Shi`iete WAR/TRIBAL lords, who have recently raised voices in Karbala in favour of him.

Ex popular most strong Mehdi Militia will continue to work under the new name.

It will be much better to announce to annex Baghdad with Washington as TODAYS Iraq is not yet soverighn , independent and free nation.

As long as your model minister will be fearing and scaring of rival militants , Americans will continue rule over you guys. This is exactly what State Department's intelligence analysts have planned for you.

Iraq will remain a fragile, a weaker broken nation and they will continue calling pentagon long time after Obama finish his 2nd term.

Either accept American monopoly . hegemony due to your weaknesses or ask them to leave.

Iraqis are smart, sober and brave nation but they are being ruled by dictators, agents. Enmass resignation is the best option as was in 1948.

Lets hope a good day. Drink a bitter poison rather then do suicidal so-called sovereign decisions to keep associate with American Masters.

I will be more happy if these dictators leave IRAQ name aside and annouce Baghdad's annexure with Washington for ever as thats the ground reality and their internal desires and their personal interests can be fulfilled more comfortably.

I will support you and will be first one to join your SOLDIERS OF HEAVEN for last battle.

with all due respects you are very childish. what america has achieved (removing saddam hussain) could not be done by anyone else. and this is what most of if not all the iraqis wanted. iran tried to topple saddam and the war took 8 years and millions of dead people but at the end iran failed.

america has given iraq and iraqis a new democratic government to iraq and iraqis. obviously it was a war so things will not change to better in a few seconds. specially when the former ruler was someone like saddam who ruled and ruined the country for about 3 decades! and lets not forget our beloved neighbouring countries who kept training and sending terrorists to iraq which obviously makes the job harder for the iraqis and foreign troops. whatever has happened in iraq was surely supervised by the democratic iraqi government. you want to call them agents or dictators or whatever that please you by all means do so but dont forget the fact that these are the same people that the iraqis chose to rule their country and voted for.

i am not trying to say that iraq should not act in its interest. i am saying that its interest is fundamentally tied into the regional interest. given the arab world's central importance to the islamic world, we can by extension say that iraq's interest is intertwined with the islamic interest generally. the islamic interest, as i perceive it, should be sovereignty, genuine sovereignty, for all muslim nations even if (oh no!) those musim nations have to work together to achieve that end. on this basis, it is not just iraq who has something to say about iraq.

as for how israel has benefitted, it is quite clear that saddam as a nationalist pan-arabist (pan-arabist of couse as long as the arabs saw him as their leader) was an open enemy to israel. getting rid of him got rid of a powerful albeit neutered enemy of israel. as long as the new regime is "responsible" with their status as leaders of iraq, israel is more secure, where 'responsible' means that iraq can have no political position outside of itself.

if you read the SOFA document, the only true sovereignty is given to the United States forces on official duty regardless of where on Iraqi soil they may be. in a sense, it is like a fluid sovereign united states enclave that moves in tandem with and is intrinsic to "official US duty." sounds to me like iraq remains a client state.

from here:

SOFA does give power to Iraq to demand 100% withdrawal of US forces at any time. it remains to be seen whether the US will honor that. i have my doubts.

here is what Syed Fadlullah says about the attempts at colonialism and imperialism in the region and why it should be everyone's business:

[this is from his biography on his official website]

assuming iraq is an independent iraqi concern whose national interest is limited to the borders of iraq is petty nationalism, given the history and the reality. i don't trust the imperial powers. they give no reason to believe they have anything but their own interests at heart.

i fully disagree. for example if it is in the interest of iraq to make deals with israel and cooperate with them then why shouldnt they? because they are fighting some terrorists wahhabis who call saddam a "shaheed" and help fatiha for him. why should iraqis care about palestinians as because of them saddam took away their houses kicked them out of iraq and gave their life to the palestinians. as i said we need to look at this from a political point of view not a religious point of view. and according to our well known maraji'3 politics and religion should be kept away from each other untill the reappearance of our 12th imam who will bring justice and has the authority to establish an "islamic state".

by the way for your information israel is regarded as an enemy by the iraqi government.

if you read sofa clearly you will see that it states the foreign troops nee to pull out of city and towns by mid 2009 (in 6 month) and that they will leave iraq by end of 2011. it also says that the americans can not arrest anyone unless given permission and authority by iraqis. i suggest you to do more research next time.

Alot of Marjae would disagree with you there.

are you up for counting because i am sure most of them actually agree and there is a minority who for obvious reasons disagree!

You seem to have a problem doing that yourself.

again i wish you could use your brain to realise that mentioning a simple logical fact is different to dictating your opinion to others

That Aya has been taken totally out of context. Do a better job of rationalising your chauvanistic approach to life.

looool your funny please care to put it into context. the ayah says avoid assumptions. do you want it to be any more clearer?!

Najafi probably belongs to this ultra-pro-American puppet faction -wants to place the entire population of Iraq under American rule, one way or the other.

please refer to the ayah posted before.

Najafi is right. This is a decision for the Iraqi people to make ultimately even though it concerns so many others.

thank you bro but watch out you might as well be called cia/mossad agent. lol

wallahu a3lam

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are you up for counting because i am sure most of them actually agree and there is a minority who for obvious reasons disagree!

Considering that all the Imams (as), our Holy Prophet (pbuh), much of Ahlul-Bayt (as), and most of the Sahaba all used politics as a means to spread Islam - you'd find it hard to name any of our Ulema that thinks Islam and politics are not correlated. I'm not talking about the stupid WF debate which has been done over and over again between braindead 10 year olds on this forum - I'm talking about the basic link between our religion and politics which is undeniable.

again i wish you could use your brain to realise that mentioning a simple logical fact is different to dictating your opinion to others

*Sigh*. You don't get it do you. You've confused even yourself.

looool your funny please care to put it into context. the ayah says avoid assumptions. do you want it to be any more clearer?!

Perhaps it was talking about...oh, I don't know; something more important than presumptions of political affinity? TAKFIR, maybe?

If everyone took that ayat the way that you do, we would have no discussion of any thought on this site out of fear of "presuming" things.

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do you want to count the minutes too im sure you will be able to get a bigger figure! :)

These are memorable golden moments for you to see kufr military boots around shrines.

if you use your brain you will realise that the iraqi government and army is getting stronger day by day. and they proved this well during the battle with the illigal mehdi army in basra.

1- No one agree they are stronger, whatever they work is as forefront manpower for US/UK dual onslaught both by military and airforce.

If your army is stronger and capable of accepting challenges then a Sunni(ex- Ba`thist general) Defence Minister will not cry and ask their lords not to leave him alone.

as i said they are getting stronger day by day segat!!

That is still to be seen the day Americans will announce demobilizing army, I hope you should reply back here.

with all due respects you are very childish. what america has achieved (removing saddam hussain) could not be done by anyone else. and this is what most of if not all the iraqis wanted. iran tried to topple saddam and the war took 8 years and millions of dead people but at the end iran failed.

It will take years for you to have an in-deph analysis on historical events. Saddam was insatlled, ruled and funded by Americans. Americans have silenced his sin voice fearing he may leak years long secets like who were behind his barbaric rule. They have pushed Iraqis too hang him by running trials for just one of his act. Not SAD-DAMN alone but his entire generation/chain of his sponsors/funders should be punished for war and humanity crimes.

Another Bush and another invasion required to punish those who hanged Saddam without detail trial and without exposing real culprits and demons behind his rule.

america has given iraq and iraqis a new democratic government to iraq and iraqis. obviously it was a war so things will not change to better in a few seconds. specially when the former ruler was someone like saddam who ruled and ruined the country for about 3 decades! and lets not forget our beloved neighbouring countries who kept training and sending terrorists to iraq which obviously makes the job harder for the iraqis and foreign troops. whatever has happened in iraq was surely supervised by the democratic iraqi government. you want to call them agents or dictators or whatever that please you by all means do so but dont forget the fact that these are the same people that the iraqis chose to rule their country and voted for.

Senconds-Minutes, Hours, Days and now Years passed, soon it will be decades, where can you find democracy in Iraq? Who is beloved neighbor, those who have given refuge to sitting ministers. Have you checked who are mercenaries army fighting war for Bush neocons, how they arming , equiping locals to work for their intelligence work.

Iraq democractic system is indirect on party basis and even an elctric pole can be nominated depending on your party proportion. If your lovely democratic ministers are so happy for their agent work, why they are building and arming support councls (Tribal WAR Lords Militias ) by disbanding public militias.

If Maliki and his coaward army has courage , ask him to do a BASRA type operation in Arbil/Kirkuk , send trbal militia to take over Iraqi cities and hang Iraqi flag on Kurdistan Parliament.

As long as Kurdistan will continue to be free of Baghdad and do oil/arms deal directly , any other Militia has the rights to establish their local governments in the jungle rule.

i fully disagree. for example if it is in the interest of iraq to make deals with israel and cooperate with them then why shouldnt they? because they are fighting some terrorists wahhabis who call saddam a "shaheed" and help fatiha for him. why should iraqis care about palestinians as because of them saddam took away their houses kicked them out of iraq and gave their life to the palestinians. as i said we need to look at this from a political point of view not a religious point of view. and according to our well known maraji'3 politics and religion should be kept away from each other untill the reappearance of our 12th imam who will bring justice and has the authority to establish an "islamic state".

Israelies are already infiltrated from Kurdish north and they are signing deals from Kurdish north. They don't care you are shi`iete/sunni.

Being an Islamic brother, you don't have to forget Palestinians/any other righteous Mujahideens cause.

Politics without religion environment is shaitanic , why Iraqi MPs kept moving to and fro from Najaf to Baghdad? Do they change their political dress while enetring sanctuaries or Ayatollahs home?

by the way for your information israel is regarded as an enemy by the iraqi government.

And the ground reality is they are sitting in the heart of Baghdad and Arbil.

if you read sofa clearly you will see that it states the foreign troops nee to pull out of city and towns by mid 2009 (in 6 month) and that they will leave iraq by end of 2011. it also says that the americans can not arrest anyone unless given permission and authority by iraqis. i suggest you to do more research next time.

When will you wake up?

are you up for counting because i am sure most of them actually agree and there is a minority who for obvious reasons disagree!

Mass demonstration in Baghdad's Firdaus sqaure was not by a minority. Maliki's funded demos were mostly attened by few tribal residents mostly from his home town. Can you show how many youths were in pro-Maliki demos.

again i wish you could use your brain to realise that mentioning a simple logical fact is different to dictating your opinion to others

We are expecting the same and watch your views when will you be a matured guy.

Edited by iraqi-4-lyf

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Considering that all the Imams (as), our Holy Prophet (pbuh), much of Ahlul-Bayt (as), and most of the Sahaba all used politics as a means to spread Islam - you'd find it hard to name any of our Ulema that thinks Islam and politics are not correlated. I'm not talking about the stupid WF debate which has been done over and over again between braindead 10 year olds on this forum - I'm talking about the basic link between our religion and politics which is undeniable.

sorry but as much as you dont like it to be linked to wf indeed it is. yes islam and politics are linked but the question is who can bring them together. according to almost all of our great maraji3 it could be done by only the prophet and imams (ma3soomin) and there is no strong evidence that anyone else could do that during the occultation of our imam (including maraji3). thus they say we must keep these two (religion and politics) seperated untill his reappearance.

*Sigh*. You don't get it do you. You've confused even yourself.

lool actually go back and read the posts again and i hope you confusion is solved. regarding me being confused refer to the ayah.

Perhaps it was talking about...oh, I don't know; something more important than presumptions of political affinity? TAKFIR, maybe?

If everyone took that ayat the way that you do, we would have no discussion of any thought on this site out of fear of "presuming" things.

perhaps? you dont even know what it was about and you tell me i had taken it out of context?! you are baffled!

the ayah says: O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful.

the ayah is commanding the believers and i guess that includes you too unless you are not one. and the ayah doesnt say when to not be suspicious hence it means always. if you want more explanation pick up a tafseer of quran and let me know how it goes!

These are memorable golden moments for you to see kufr military boots around shrines.

lol "kufr military"? was it not the so called muslim saddam who fired at the shrine in najaf? was it not the sadrists who shot the dome of the shrine in najad during their battle with the iraqi/american army and then tried to blame it on the poor americans?!

1- No one agree they are stronger, whatever they work is as forefront manpower for US/UK dual onslaught both by military and airforce.

If your army is stronger and capable of accepting challenges then a Sunni(ex- Ba`thist general) Defence Minister will not cry and ask their lords not to leave him alone.

read properly! i said they are "growing" stronger day by day. for example during the battle in basra if you had done your homework you would have knew that they only used the america's air force other than that it was all the iraqi army.

That is still to be seen the day Americans will announce demobilizing army, I hope you should reply back here.

inshallah :D

It will take years for you to have an in-deph analysis on historical events. Saddam was insatlled, ruled and funded by Americans. Americans have silenced his sin voice fearing he may leak years long secets like who were behind his barbaric rule. They have pushed Iraqis too hang him by running trials for just one of his act. Not SAD-DAMN alone but his entire generation/chain of his sponsors/funders should be punished for war and humanity crimes.

Another Bush and another invasion required to punish those who hanged Saddam without detail trial and without exposing real culprits and demons behind his rule.

whatever was done to saddam was by iraqis and according to iraqi law. stop the rumours and grow up.

Senconds-Minutes, Hours, Days and now Years passed, soon it will be decades, where can you find democracy in Iraq? Who is beloved neighbor, those who have given refuge to sitting ministers. Have you checked who are mercenaries army fighting war for Bush neocons, how they arming , equiping locals to work for their intelligence work.

Iraq democractic system is indirect on party basis and even an elctric pole can be nominated depending on your party proportion. If your lovely democratic ministers are so happy for their agent work, why they are building and arming support councls (Tribal WAR Lords Militias ) by disbanding public militias.

If Maliki and his coaward army has courage , ask him to do a BASRA type operation in Arbil/Kirkuk , send trbal militia to take over Iraqi cities and hang Iraqi flag on Kurdistan Parliament.

As long as Kurdistan will continue to be free of Baghdad and do oil/arms deal directly , any other Militia has the rights to establish their local governments in the jungle rule.

everywhere. you see all these people who cant do nothing better but criticise the iraqi government, where were they at the time of saddam? did they have the guts to speak out? didnt the people elect the mps? if this is not democracy then god know what is!

since you have done your good research, you must know who find financially and in terms of weapons the famous mehdi army. and many other militias. you must know who pays these suicide bombers to blow themselves up!

obviously then who do you want them to vote for? they vote for the parties and know the name of all the members of that party. and then in parliament these mps who represent the people vote for president, pm and ministers. obviously this is democratic!

dont jump too fast. let them deal with the terrorists first and then they will go to kurdistan too.

Israelies are already infiltrated from Kurdish north and they are signing deals from Kurdish north. They don't care you are shi`iete/sunni.

Being an Islamic brother, you don't have to forget Palestinians/any other righteous Mujahideens cause.

Politics without religion environment is shaitanic , why Iraqi MPs kept moving to and fro from Najaf to Baghdad? Do they change their political dress while enetring sanctuaries or Ayatollahs home?

palestinians? wahhabis? terrorists? the ones who see saddam as their father and regard him as "shaheed"? loool

as said israel is still regarded as an enemy by iraqi law.

lool no wonder why islam doesnt let women to be leaders and not even ayatullahs. you lot make your own fatawa as if you are a ma3soom. as a matter of fact the same ayatullah that the politicians meet in najaf doesnt believe in a political role for himself.

And the ground reality is they are sitting in the heart of Baghdad and Arbil.

rumours again?

When will you wake up?

when you grow up!

Mass demonstration in Baghdad's Firdaus sqaure was not by a minority. Maliki's funded demos were mostly attened by few tribal residents mostly from his home town. Can you show how many youths were in pro-Maliki demos.

loool why do you have to be nosy and get involved and interfere in everything?! we are talking about ayatullahs what has got do with mass demonstrations?! looooooool you are too funny!

We are expecting the same and watch your views when will you be a matured guy.

refer to the reply of the second last quote :)

wallahu a3lam

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sorry but as much as you dont like it to be linked to wf indeed it is.

Why? Because you suddenly think it is? By what osmosis does Hezbollah condeming SOFA implicate Wilyat e Faqih? What in the slightest does WF have to do with anything?

yes islam and politics are linked but the question is who can bring them together.

Nobody - because, as you said - they're already linked. There is no middle-man required.

according to almost all of our great maraji3 it could be done by only the prophet and imams (ma3soomin) and there is no strong evidence that anyone else could do that during the occultation of our imam (including maraji3). thus they say we must keep these two (religion and politics) seperated untill his reappearance.

Again, your fixation with WF is clouding your judgement. I'm not talking about religious government - you can have a political religion without necessarily involving government.

lool actually go back and read the posts again and i hope you confusion is solved. regarding me being confused refer to the ayah.

Your confusion has nothing to do with the aya. I say you're confused because you claimed that Hezbollah were forcing their opinions onto the Iraqi people. Are the Iraqi people stupid or something - do they absorb everything that Seyed Nasrallah or Ayatollah Fadlallah say? Are they devoid of any rational thinking themselves? Do Hezbollah somehow brainwash Iraqis by issuing a condemnation of SOFA?

Give me a Nationalist answer to those questions, and I will be very surprised.

perhaps? you dont even know what it was about and you tell me i had taken it out of context?! you are baffled!

You just keep revealing your immaturity, don't you?

the ayah says: O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful.

Again - what does that have to do with criticism within the Ummah? Did I backbite, or spy on you?

By your logic, to be suspicious of some guy nosing around your front door would be considered Haram.

the ayah is commanding the believers and i guess that includes you too unless you are not one.

I'm not the one using Kufr rationale to justify the exclusion of the Shia Ummah in a decision that will have repercussions all over the Islamic world - not just (what you perceive to be) an Iraqi bubble.

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i fully disagree. for example if it is in the interest of iraq to make deals with israel and cooperate with them then why shouldnt they? because they are fighting some terrorists wahhabis who call saddam a "shaheed" and help fatiha for him. why should iraqis care about palestinians as because of them saddam took away their houses kicked them out of iraq and gave their life to the palestinians. as i said we need to look at this from a political point of view not a religious point of view. and according to our well known maraji'3 politics and religion should be kept away from each other untill the reappearance of our 12th imam who will bring justice and has the authority to establish an "islamic state".

by the way for your information israel is regarded as an enemy by the iraqi government.

if you read sofa clearly you will see that it states the foreign troops nee to pull out of city and towns by mid 2009 (in 6 month) and that they will leave iraq by end of 2011. it also says that the americans can not arrest anyone unless given permission and authority by iraqis. i suggest you to do more research next time.

i saw the provisions that give iraq jurisdicition. despite that, i see the US forces as the entity with power in the country, and given their power the US forces are in a better position to exploit the articles of the agreement.

in order for israel to remain in existence in the absence of a comprehensive regional peace treaty, it is necessary for them to be the regional hegemon. they accomplish this in two ways. first, they increase their absolute power by arming themselves with america's best weapons. secondly, they increase their relative power by keeping ALL other nations in the region weak and ineffectual, even the ones with whom they have "peace."

look at egypt, the cultural hub of the arab world and the most populous nation in the region. despite this, egypt is poor, they have a high illiteracy rate, and their economy cannot absorb those who are already educated, not to speak of those whom the government should be educating. and their military is 100% dependent on the USA. do you think the US sells egypt the same kind of weapons (purchased with bribe aid money from the US) that they sell to the israelis? why do 'we' americans call egypt, clearly a police state, our moderate ally? because we know damn well that that police state may as well be a failed state when it comes to comparing its power to that of israel.

this policy of destabilizing nations or making them dependent on US protection (e.g. the Gulf States, including KSA) is designed to keep Israel on top and oil in control of the imperialists. were israel not there, i don't think the oil mongers could get away with all these wars, as it is the propaganda system put in place by the american zionists that sells this policy to the american people. don't for a moment think that iraq is not included in this scheming, because it is.

all of that said, i didn't mean to come across sounding as thought iraq should not act in its national interest. what i was saying is that its interest lies beyond the national borders of iraq. iraq's enemies are formidable and conniving. therefore iraq needs regional allies and you can safely assume that hizbollah is a regional ally. much more so than iraq's american conquerors.

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(bismillah)

so-called "Najafi" in this thread is a Zionist mossad agent, May Allah(SWT) curse this evil scumbag. He openly is against the Mujahideen in Hizbullah, the only person who would hold such views is a Zionist punk that wants to start drama on this site.

hes just putting out the facts how they are, will you please relax and evaluate yourself.. refrain from speaking such foolish talk.

so-called "najafi" is a zionist butt kisser and a zionist agent. Someone ban this punk.

do you feel proud of yourself? you havent made any progress in this discussion nor have you professed an intellectual opinion.

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Why? Because you suddenly think it is? By what osmosis does Hezbollah condeming SOFA implicate Wilyat e Faqih? What in the slightest does WF have to do with anything?

hezbullah is trying to link religion and politics under the supervision of wali faqih and "islamic republic of iran".

Nobody - because, as you said - they're already linked. There is no middle-man required.

so what was the point of the prophet and imams?! who is going to apply it if there is no middle man needed.

Again, your fixation with WF is clouding your judgement. I'm not talking about religious government - you can have a political religion without necessarily involving government.

it is not my "fixation" but rather the view of our great ulema. :)

Your confusion has nothing to do with the aya. I say you're confused because you claimed that Hezbollah were forcing their opinions onto the Iraqi people. Are the Iraqi people stupid or something - do they absorb everything that Seyed Nasrallah or Ayatollah Fadlallah say? Are they devoid of any rational thinking themselves? Do Hezbollah somehow brainwash Iraqis by issuing a condemnation of SOFA?

Give me a Nationalist answer to those questions, and I will be very surprised.

loool if you had actually gone and read the ayah you would have understood what i mean. the ayah is regarding assumptions and i am not sure how exactly you worked out that im confused other than assumption.

if you had read the first paragraoh of the first post only you would have realised how hezbullah is dictating its own agenda/opinion to others. "Hezbollah finally broke its silence on Thursday and denounced the pact as harmful and called on all Iraqi MPs to assume their responsibilities and reject it as soon as possible".

however this doesnt necessarily mean that the iraqis will listen to him.

You just keep revealing your immaturity, don't you?

you just keep revealing how baseless and weak your arguments are.

Again - what does that have to do with criticism within the Ummah? Did I backbite, or spy on you?

By your logic, to be suspicious of some guy nosing around your front door would be considered Haram.

lool funny how you ignore the first part and only quoted the second part. i only posted the whole ayah for you to understand what the context was.

I'm not the one using Kufr rationale to justify the exclusion of the Shia Ummah in a decision that will have repercussions all over the Islamic world - not just (what you perceive to be) an Iraqi bubble.

as i said i am looking at it from a political view. and honestly i dont see a threat to the shias except iran which i would only blame themselves for whatever happens to them. they can not do whatever they want and expect us to always support them just because they are so called shias.

i saw the provisions that give iraq jurisdicition. despite that, i see the US forces as the entity with power in the country, and given their power the US forces are in a better position to exploit the articles of the agreement.

in order for israel to remain in existence in the absence of a comprehensive regional peace treaty, it is necessary for them to be the regional hegemon. they accomplish this in two ways. first, they increase their absolute power by arming themselves with america's best weapons. secondly, they increase their relative power by keeping ALL other nations in the region weak and ineffectual, even the ones with whom they have "peace."

look at egypt, the cultural hub of the arab world and the most populous nation in the region. despite this, egypt is poor, they have a high illiteracy rate, and their economy cannot absorb those who are already educated, not to speak of those whom the government should be educating. and their military is 100% dependent on the USA. do you think the US sells egypt the same kind of weapons (purchased with bribe aid money from the US) that they sell to the israelis? why do 'we' americans call egypt, clearly a police state, our moderate ally? because we know damn well that that police state may as well be a failed state when it comes to comparing its power to that of israel.

this policy of destabilizing nations or making them dependent on US protection (e.g. the Gulf States, including KSA) is designed to keep Israel on top and oil in control of the imperialists. were israel not there, i don't think the oil mongers could get away with all these wars, as it is the propaganda system put in place by the american zionists that sells this policy to the american people. don't for a moment think that iraq is not included in this scheming, because it is.

all of that said, i didn't mean to come across sounding as thought iraq should not act in its national interest. what i was saying is that its interest lies beyond the national borders of iraq. iraq's enemies are formidable and conniving. therefore iraq needs regional allies and you can safely assume that hizbollah is a regional ally. much more so than iraq's american conquerors.

after reading all that you expect iraq to be ally with with those who fund and train illegal militias in iraq who fight the iraqi government? you expect iraq to be ally of those who send terrorists to iraq to blow themselves up?! as i said before it is up to iraqis to decide and surely they will decide according to the interests of iraq not hezbullah, not palestine and not the region. i wonder where were all these people when saddam was killing iraqis and ruining the country!

capt.67445b35df6f401296f80c82da0ff08a.iraq_army_xpg106.jpg

Day by Day-2075 Days

i suggest you to look up the word "war" in dictionary and hope that will make you realise things such as the picture above are very normal to happen.

so-called "najafi" is a zionist butt kisser and a zionist agent. Someone ban this punk.

loool. before labeling me i suggest you to change your signature as it is clear shirk! i hoped shiachat had edited it by now.

Their core belief is Israel and Washington do not pose a threat to Middle East security, and that the Shia should ally with them against Wahhabism; though they forget the fact that Washington's greatest ally in the region is Riyadh, the nest of Wahhabis.

looooool and where did you get this from? obviously if it is in the interest of shias or my country i dont see anything wrong with allying with america or israel. as far as i know there are no ahadeeth or islamic proof against these two countries and those who do oppose them and call them the "great satan" i believe it is very clear as to why they say such things.

mashallah your akhlaq is very much like those who you seem to support and i ask Allah to place you next to them in the here after!

i am very disappointed with shiachat admin team and the fact that you are part of them is very upsetting. i pray to god almighty to help you to grow up faster and may he guide us all.

p.s. guess what you are acting against the rules and guidelines of this forum. its amazing that you are an admin as well!

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this site to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this site. "

i urge shiachat to choose its admins more carefully.

My Salams and Salute to the entire family tree. May Allah bless us , unite us and guide us to the straight path. Let us allow him until his thoughts are matured.

thanks but i am still waiting for you to grow up.

wallahu a3lam

Edited by Najafi.

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thanks but i am still waiting for you to grow up.

We will continue respecting Al-e-Khoei at all costs, you are free to condemn us which is our pleasure. Its clearly written in Quaran Yahood and Nosara can never be our friends. Islam is a complete system of living and politics is part of its chapter, separating religion out of syasah is just Shaitanic.

We will continue stoning 7 Shaitans this eid and we will hang /slaughter another dictator of Baghdad on this Eid Al Adha.

YAHOOd

HUNOOd

AL-e-Saud

Ale-Malick Abdullah

Ale-Bin La Deen

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You can fill it

Happy Christmas to all of you and a bloody 2009>>>

Edited by iraqi-4-lyf

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