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surfinjo

Iran arrests birds

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This story, in a very sensationalist UK newspaper was brought to may attention:

Iran Arrests Pigeons spying on Nuclear facility

I immediately responded that the story is utter tosh. I know for fact that Iran is an advanced industrial state with an intellectual tradition dating centuries.

Then this link was brought to my attention:

Iran busts spy pigeons near Nuclear site

My first reaction was that this Tehran Times is a silly fraud. But the About Us page claims:

Ayatollah Seyyed Mohammad Beheshti realized the need and the English-language Tehran Times was born concurrently with the revolution. The daily’s general policy was based on Ayatollah Beheshti’s statement: “The Tehran Times is not the newspaper of the government; it must be a loud voice of the Islamic Revolution and the loudspeaker of the oppressed people of the world.”

Is Iran really arresting birds? :!!!:

Have any animals been arrested for relations outside marriage? :!!!:

Do these animals have a fair trial? :!!!:

Are they permitted to speak in their own defence? :!!!:

I apologise of these questions seem to mock Iran or Iranian people. But if Iran is really arresting birds for spying then perhaps it isn't as intelligently led as I supposed.

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This story, in a very sensationalist UK newspaper was brought to may attention:

Iran Arrests Pigeons spying on Nuclear facility

I immediately responded that the story is utter tosh. I know for fact that Iran is an advanced industrial state with an intellectual tradition dating centuries.

Then this link was brought to my attention:

Iran busts spy pigeons near Nuclear site

My first reaction was that this Tehran Times is a silly fraud. But the About Us page claims:

Ayatollah Seyyed Mohammad Beheshti realized the need and the English-language Tehran Times was born concurrently with the revolution. The daily’s general policy was based on Ayatollah Beheshti’s statement: “The Tehran Times is not the newspaper of the government; it must be a loud voice of the Islamic Revolution and the loudspeaker of the oppressed people of the world.”

Is Iran really arresting birds? :!!!:

Have any animals been arrested for relations outside marriage? :!!!:

Do these animals have a fair trial? :!!!:

Are they permitted to speak in their own defence? :!!!:

I apologise of these questions seem to mock Iran or Iranian people. But if Iran is really arresting birds for spying then perhaps it isn't as intelligently led as I supposed.

I didn't read, so tell me...Did these pigeons have recording cameras? Nowadays it's all possible.

Is there a PETA lawyer in Iran? For the sake of all here, I hope not.

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I also have no idea about the authenticity of the 'Tehran Times'.

However, if I were administering a military sensitive area, I would also remove animals that came onto the premises with electronic equipment attached to them.

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The U.S navy has trained dolphins to use as spies. Seriously. They also have traied them to be able to capture enemy personel underwater.

It may be the oddest tale to emerge from the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Armed dolphins, trained by the US military to shoot terrorists and pinpoint spies underwater, may be missing in the Gulf of Mexico.Experts who have studied the US navy's cetacean training exercises claim the 36 mammals could be carrying 'toxic dart' guns. Divers and surfers risk attack, they claim, from a species considered to be among the planet's smartest. The US navy admits it has been training dolphins for military purposes, but has refused to confirm that any are missing.

Dolphins have been trained in attack-and-kill missions since the Cold War. The US Atlantic bottlenose dolphins have apparently been taught to shoot terrorists attacking military vessels. Their coastal compound was breached during the storm, sweeping them out to sea. But those who have studied the controversial use of dolphins in the US defence programme claim it is vital they are caught quickly.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/sep/25/usa.theobserver

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I have heard, near Pakistan's nuclear facility (the most protected thing in Pakistan), any thing gets closer to the 12th security layer (farthest from the actual plant) they kill it. No questions asked.... In modern ages, you never know what is taking your pics or recording :!!!:

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You are probably not 'into technology' are you? All kinds of animals are used these days for espionage.
I also have no idea about the authenticity of the 'Tehran Times'.

However, if I were administering a military sensitive area, I would also remove animals that came onto the premises with electronic equipment attached to them.

Pigeons were used in the World War 2 I have heard. So how difficult would it be to use them in todays world?
The U.S navy has trained dolphins to use as spies. Seriously. They also have traied them to be able to capture enemy personel underwater.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/sep/25/usa.theobserver

I have heard, near Pakistan's nuclear facility (the most protected thing in Pakistan), any thing gets closer to the 12th security layer (farthest from the actual plant) they kill it. No questions asked.... In modern ages, you never know what is taking your pics or recording

Al of these statements make perfect sense in the spirit of the paranoia that comes with military obsecession.

But none deal with the issue of Arresting an Animal.

So, the question remains.

Does Iran arrest animals. Does Iran believe that an animal can have the same conscience as a human?

To be quite honest, I was expecting a straight forward response here.

Either a claim that the Tehran Times is not what it claims, or even the old faithful, a mistranslation.

But it seems that Iran does indeed arrest animals. Hopefully these creatures get a decent trial.

But on a more serious note, if the Iranians do indeed believe that an animal can have personal culpibility then perhaps Bush was right, after all, that Iranians are really not nearly developed enough to take responsibility for such a dangerous technology as nuclear power.

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(salam)

That's what happens when as a nation you have scientists building machines like these:

A bird like that equiped with a camera would go unnoticed. I guess you can't blame Iranians for being over cautious even though this has its funny side.

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Al of these statements make perfect sense in the spirit of the paranoia that comes with military obsecession.

But none deal with the issue of Arresting an Animal.

So, the question remains.

Does Iran arrest animals. Does Iran believe that an animal can have the same conscience as a human?

To be quite honest, I was expecting a straight forward response here.

Either a claim that the Tehran Times is not what it claims, or even the old faithful, a mistranslation.

But it seems that Iran does indeed arrest animals. Hopefully these creatures get a decent trial.

But on a more serious note, if the Iranians do indeed believe that an animal can have personal culpibility then perhaps Bush was right, after all, that Iranians are really not nearly developed enough to take responsibility for such a dangerous technology as nuclear power.

What does capturing or killing animals for the purpose of espionage prevention have to do with anything else you have said? "Arrest" in English means 'to take into custody', which in turn means 'to bring under your care/guardianship'. Does that clear up things for you?

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What does capturing or killing animals for the purpose of espionage prevention have to do with anything else you have said? "Arrest" in English means 'to take into custody', which in turn means 'to bring under your care/guardianship'. Does that clear up things for you?

Nice try.

I was wondering when a claim of mistranslation would pop up.

The article was written in an Iranian English Language newspaper.

Their stated aim is to reach an audience that reads English.

If you're going to fall back on the old 'mistranslation' excuse then almost anything can be excused.

But wait, please don't be offended by anything I have said, it's all a mistranslation!!!!!

I have to say that I have always taken the line that Iran should be given maximum leaway.

But we would take matches away form a child. I can't in all conscience disagree with the west's intention of removing nuclear capability from a country that thinks birds can be culpable for their actions.

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Surfinjo wrote:

A Mechanical bird???

Are you suggesting that Iran would hold a machine culpable for its actions?

You make no sense. Catching a suspicious bird flying around nuclear facilities that could be equiped with cameras has nothing abnormal about it.

You made your "point",you were yet again shown to be a fool, what now? clap clap clap ...

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guys anyone whose ever watched any richard attenborough documentary on birds knows that they fit cameras onto birds to watch their flights and paths for the shows, and have been doing so for 10 - 20 years. its no great leap to think that if you wanted to spy on something on the ground to just fit the same cameras on a homing pigeon cos they have some crazy in built mental maps.

as for the "arresting", i doubt they read the bird the miranda rights lol :D maybe confiscated would have been a better term?

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What's so funny about this action? Not only pigeons and dolphins but cats and bats have also been used in warfare in WWII.

Perhaps, you haven't heard the latest that Pentagon's scientists want to create an army of cyber-insects that can be remote-controlled to send transmissions. It was on BBC if I remember right. There's no harm in being extra cautious if you know who your enemy is and the means with which it plays its game.

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in iraq they are already controlling small unmanned spy craft using the controller from an XBOX! spy technology is helluva lotta advanced than people think.

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...perhaps Bush was right, after all, that Iranians are really not nearly developed enough to take responsibility for such a dangerous technology as nuclear power.

If Bush was right, it would be a historic first. You should call the New York Times!

Your next statement is a non-sequitor. I hate to break this to you...but the Iranians ALREADY have nuclear power and developed it without the help of the U.S.A. So what is the point of saying they are not developed enought to take responsiblity for this technology when they already possess it?

If your point is to say that the benevolent U.S. is going to act as the worlds policeman and deprive them of this technology you are mistaken. Then have been trying (and failing miserably) to do that for years now. The next step after denial and rage is acceptace.

When you see your friend W tell him to look behind him when he leaves so the door doesn't hit him on the way out (but, wait, don't tell him...what a great photo opportunity! :!!!: )

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^lol

how could the birds have been caught? as in, dont they just like fly away if anyone goes near them?

you have to sneak up to them very VERY very stealthily and catch them with one abrupt movement in a flash :D

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You make no sense. Catching a suspicious bird flying around nuclear facilities that could be equiped with cameras has nothing abnormal about it.

You made your "point",you were yet again shown to be a fool, what now? clap clap clap ...

Using pigeons for espionage is nothing new.

If some has fitted these birds with cameras or such then it is probably not surprising.

If these birds have been captured then all well and good.

There is certainly nothing wrong or surprising about any government producing a foreign language news paper to put forward its point of view.

The issue here is that an English language news paper, set up to put the Iranian point of view, run by the Iranian government, is clearly so badly run that it employs people who use such inappropriate terminologies that make Iran a laughing stock.

And a dangerous laughing stock if it has access to nuclear technology.

We could almost assume that the writer used electronic translation to create the English text.

What sort of idiots are running Iran that someone so incompetent can be put in charge of such an important post as editing the Tehran Times who can't speak English and lacks the humility to allow someone who can to do the job?

Was the Editor appointed because of his connections?

This comes not so very long after some other idiot in Iran distributed a translation of one of the Iranian President's speeches to imply that he wanted to see the destruction of Israel and all the people in it.

I have to say, I am utterly astonished that, at a time when the US/Israel are attempting to find any excuse to attack Iran, causing the deaths of millions of decent innocent people, that the Iranian government is so utterly incompetent and clearly corrupt that it allows such important information outlets to be run by utter idiots.

There is something very seriously wrong in the Iranian government. It is facing dangerous foes and its friends are being made to look like utter fools.

If Iran is attacked, the government of Iran will have a heavy culpability for every single death.

But sadly, I suppose, those of you actually living in Iran don't have the same freedom as I enjoy to criticise yours or any other government.

Apparently this whole topic is about the word, 'arrests'. The things people keep themselves busy with these days

Actually, it's about the implications of Iran being apparently run by idiots and the failure of anyone on this board to see the real implications here.

And please, let's not get into a round of finger pointing at the idiots who run other countries.

Other countries are not currently faced with attack and utter destruction by two of the most powerful military forces in the history of the world.

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surfinjo, lemme get this straight.. you think iran is being run by idiots because the newspaper editor used the word "arrested" instead of some other word like "captured" for example?

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Surfingjo, as someone holding an Iranian presscard I am afraid you are over generalising. There is no doubt that when I see some of the people working in the press I ask myself how on earth they got the job. But I asked myself the same question about many people in important positions in other countries. It is probable that the guy who wrote the article has a mastery of English that makes him say that "yestarday dee Iraanian autority has arrested a burd dat vas feleying over dee nooklear facility." And yes maybe they should improve the competence of their personel. But to over generalise and call everyone working in the Iranian press a bunge of moronic idiots is an exageration to say the least. There are very competent people in the Iranian elites and unfortunately idiots as well, like in many countries. But to blame a possible attack on Iran by the US/Israel on the incompetence of a newspaper editor is a [Edited Out] far fetched. In any case there is no official regime newspaper in Iran and the only pressgroup that is allowed to represent the Rahbar's opinion is Etelaat.

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And please, let's not get into a round of finger pointing at the idiots who run other countries.

So you're admitting that Bush is an idiot...Good. Acknowledging your problem is the first step to recovery. Bravo!

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surfinjo, lemme get this straight.. you think iran is being run by idiots because the newspaper editor used the word "arrested" instead of some other word like "captured" for example?

No.

This paper is the Iranian government's media for portraying itself to the English speaking world.

These are uncertain times for Iran. It is faced with two of the most powerful and fanatical foes in the history of the world.

Iran desperately needs as many friends as it can get.

To allow itself to be portrayed in its official media as a nation that arrests animals, therefore holding animals culpable for for their actions, makes Iran look like a backward, primitive culture that can no more be trusted with advanced technology than a child can with matches.

What is especially sad here is the inability of any of you to seemingly comprehend just how serious the situation is and how much potential trouble all of Iran is facing.

So you're admitting that Bush is an idiot...Good. Acknowledging your problem is the first step to recovery. Bravo!

I and I believe most people in western Europe do not believe Bush is an Idiot.

Bush and Blair are liars, mass murderers, profiteers and war criminals.

To dismiss Bush as an idiot is to allow an excuse for his despicable and disgraceful acts.

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Do people here actually believe that Iran physically arrested birds? Put them in tiny handcuffs? Threw them into a jail? Let them see an Imam before execution?

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Surfinjo wrote:

This paper is the Iranian government's media for portraying itself to the English speaking world.

WRONG!!!

The only pressgroup in Iran that is allowed to voice the official opinion of the Rahbar is Etelaat not the Tehran Times.

Get your facts right!

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This paper is the Iranian government's media for portraying itself to the English speaking world.

So, you mean to say that a naive sub-editor who used an inappropriate word in a headline will lead to a Third World War? And in case that happens, what do you suggest the headline in Washington Post would be? Let me guess... "US attacks Iran to bail out birds"

English is not the native language of Iran. For that matter it's not the native language of any of the countries in the East. These mistakes happen regularly in the newspapers. I can show you erroneous headlines given by those very native English speakers in the West. They are downright ridiculous!

These are uncertain times for Iran. It is faced with two of the most powerful and fanatical foes in the history of the world.

Is that new? I thought they were at loggerheads from the time of the revolution two decades ago. If you remember Ayatollah Khomeini had openly declared America, "The great Satan, the wounded snake." Did it make a difference then?

News is not static. Headlines change daily. Today's newspaper is tomorrow's wastepaper. Treat this like that and move on.

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