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khaibershikan

a question for 4 imames followers

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The Holy Prophet (saaws) had said

"I swear by the one who controls my life

that this man (Ali) and his Shi'a shall secure

deliverance on the day of resurrection".

Do any hadith exist in which the Prophet (saaws)

had guaranteed paradise for Imams Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi, Hanbal and their followers?

Tafsir Durr al Manthur, by al Hafidh Jalaladeen Suyuti in his commentary of verse 98:7

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I am curious to know why Sunnis say only these four scholars have the right to ijtehad. Why not others? Why only these four? Why not the scholars today? Are the ijtehad standards of these four perfect and have no room for improvement? If so then why are there four scholars and not one?

Edited by dingdong

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I am curious to know why Sunnis say only these four scholars have the right to ijtehad. Why not others? Why only these four? Why not the scholars today? Are the ijtehad standards of these four perfect and have no room for improvement? If so then why are there four scholars and not one?

hehehe

thanks brother

i think it is a BIG ?mark on sunnies

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I am curious to know why Sunnis say only these four scholars have the right to ijtehad. Why not others? Why only these four? Why not the scholars today? Are the ijtehad standards of these four perfect and have no room for improvement? If so then why are there four scholars and not one?

People don't say that, there is differences in the level of ijtihaad - a basic primer on taqleed would cover that...

Do any hadith exist in which the Prophet (saaws)

had guaranteed paradise for Imams Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi, Hanbal and their followers?

Inauthentic and deliberatly taken out of it's full context. What does it say in the later part of the narration on the difference between Shi'a and Rawafid :)

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People don't say that, there is differences in the level of ijtihaad - a basic primer on taqleed would cover that...

Inauthentic and deliberatly taken out of it's full context. What does it say in the later part of the narration on the difference between Shi'a and Rawafid :)

Why only 4 Imams for Taqleed as you sunnis do? Why isn't Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq(as) listed as one of your Madhabs? Why do sunnis not accept making Taqleed to Imam al-Sadiq(as); as Shi'a Muslims do. Especially since sunnis Abu Hanifa (leader of Hanafis) and Malik ibn Anas (leader of Malikis) were students of Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq(as);

link: www.answering-ansar.org Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq(as) taught sunnis

Edited by Abdul-Rahman Brent

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It's not about following the Imam, it's about following the Quran and Sunnah. However, for fiqh issues where everything is not clear-cut, we need a methodology of fishing out the proper way of following Allah (swt) and his Messenger (sw).

I don't remember the "Jafari school" being anything related to Sunni Islam.

"The fiqh of Jafari is somewhat different from that of Sunni schools, in which it does not employ qiyas, but uses the intellect, caql. Another difference is of course, that it doesn't use the same hadiths. Many Sunni hadiths are excluded due to being attributed to enemies of Shi'ism, like what is the case with Aisha's hadiths. Also they have a rich collection of their own unique hadiths, related to the imams, which by Shi'i definition could not commit sin or err."

http://www.mb-soft.com/believe/txw/jafari.htm

Does that sound acceptable to orthodox Muslims?

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I don't remember the "Jafari school" being anything related to Sunni Islam.

We have a several of the verdicts of Hazrat Jafar (rah), but his usool is dead like some of the other schools (like Awzai, Zahiri, etc.)

Does that sound acceptable to orthodox Muslims?

This is just misinformation because they came to call their religion is "Jafari". We can find from what little evidence we have left, of what Imaam Jafar (rah) taught in Sunna' texts, some later Zaydi mentions of him and Waqifis also.

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The Holy Prophet (saaws) had said

"I swear by the one who controls my life

that this man (Ali) and his Shi'a shall secure

deliverance on the day of resurrection".

Do any hadith exist in which the Prophet (saaws)

had guaranteed paradise for Imams Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi, Hanbal and their followers?

Tafsir Durr al Manthur, by al Hafidh Jalaladeen Suyuti in his commentary of verse 98:7

Ali is with Quran and Quran is with Ali, they will never be separated …..’

Ali died more than a thousand years ago . Now in this era how will you follow him ? The answer is simple : hold fast the Quran only because the Quran is the perfect reflection of Ali’s life .

Ali is one of the best Quranist among the Ummah of the Prophet . May Allah (swt) grant him honor and pomp that he deserved .

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People don't say that, there is differences in the level of ijtihaad - a basic primer on taqleed would cover that...

Inauthentic and deliberatly taken out of it's full context. What does it say in the later part of the narration on the difference between Shi'a and Rawafid :)

u think it was the answer of this ??

Do any hadith exist in which the Prophet (saaws)

had guaranteed paradise for Imams Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi, Hanbal and their followers?

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We have a several of the verdicts of Hazrat Jafar (rah), but his usool is dead like some of the other schools (like Awzai, Zahiri, etc.)

This is just misinformation because they came to call their religion is "Jafari". We can find from what little evidence we have left, of what Imaam Jafar (rah) taught in Sunna' texts, some later Zaydi mentions of him and Waqifis also.

So Sunnis/we believe that Imam Sadiq was actually a Sunni, but that Shias forged his works and made him into a Shia imam?

Ali is with Quran and Quran is with Ali, they will never be separated …..’

Ali died more than a thousand years ago . Now in this era how will you follow him ? The answer is simple : hold fast the Quran only because the Quran is the perfect reflection of Ali’s life .

Ali is one of the best Quranist among the Ummah of the Prophet . May Allah (swt) grant him honor and pomp that he deserved .

Are you saying the Quran is meant more for Ali than the Prophet (sw)?

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So Sunnis/we believe that Imam Sadiq was actually a Sunni, but that Shias forged his works and made him into a Shia imam?

Are you saying the Quran is meant more for Ali than the Prophet (sw)?

:)

Prophet(s) was sunni

Ali(a) was sunni

Imam sadiq(a) was sunni

Imam Hussain was sunni - lol

ok baby now tell me any ayat where

Ahl' ul Sunnah or Ahl'ul Sunnah wa al Jamaah. Direct us towards any such verse of the Qur'an wherein any of these names have been indicated.

ok now just tell me any sahi hadith of bukhari etc ... on this title "SUNNI"

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u think it was the answer of this ??

Why would I answer a question when the basis of the question itself is wrong:

- Contextually, it can not refer to Rawafid. See the other traditions like this one, but it refers either to Ummah Jam'a or to Zaydiya (or other Shi'i groups) depending on interpretation.

- The narration isn't authentic - tafseer durr al manthur doesn't even include isnaad. I don't need to find forged narrations to confirm my acceptance of men who's confirmation is on their scholarship and not false prophecies related to them.

So Sunnis/we believe that Imam Sadiq was actually a Sunni, but that Shias forged his works and made him into a Shia imam?

He was a Muslim of great knowledge, and definitely not a 12er. Shi'as don't have any works from him that they accept, instead, they supposedly narrated from him just as did the Sunna', Ismailis, Waqifis, etc. InshaAllah I'll send you a copy (when I'm finished) of a short work on the 12 men they say are their Imaams.

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Do any hadith exist in which the Prophet (saaws)

had guaranteed paradise for Imams Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi, Hanbal and their followers?

Why would I answer a question when the basis of the question itself is wrong:

ok leave the basis :)

so u r saying there is no single hadith exist in which the Prophet (saaws)

had guaranteed paradise for Imams Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi, Hanbal and their followers

but i Believe in tehreer e yaman of shaheed agha dastagheeb quoted the same words

The Holy Prophet (saaws) had said

"I swear by the one who controls my life

that this man (Ali) and his Shi'a shall secure

deliverance on the day of resurrection".

He was a Muslim of great knowledge, and definitely not a 12er. Shi'as don't have any works from him that they accept, instead, they supposedly narrated from him just as did the Sunna', Ismailis, Waqifis, etc. InshaAllah I'll send you a copy (when I'm finished) of a short work on the 12 men they say are their Imaams.

ok acording to ur sect our 12 Imames(a) r ok just men right

so wht about your gurus who even was not human acording to ur own bookes - mAvIaH

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ok leave the basis smile.gif

so u r saying there is no single hadith exist in which the Prophet (saaws)

had guaranteed paradise for Imams Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi, Hanbal and their followers

but i Believe in tehreer e yaman of shaheed agha dastagheeb quoted the same words

The Holy Prophet (saaws) had said

"I swear by the one who controls my life

that this man (Ali) and his Shi'a shall secure

deliverance on the day of resurrection".

What do you mean, leave the basis? That's the most important part of a question. If I asked you "Is Jesus God or a madman", would I be worthy of a reply in this constricted manner? Quite frankly, your question is stupid..

As for quoting the same narration/genre from another secondary source, what does that prove? The narration in it's full form condemns your religion, why do you hide this fact? I mean, how low does a person's IQ have to be for him to say "well, somebody else also wrote down this same narration without isnaad several hundred years later as well - so I should believe it"?

ok acording to ur sect our 12 Imames(a) r ok just men right

(1) As Sunna', we don't have it as part of our aqeedah to believe anything regarding your "12" except 'Ali (ra) and Hassan (ra).

so wht about your gurus who even was not human acording to ur own bookes

SubhanAllah, don't know why I was wasting my time with somebody at your intellectual level...

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errr

3 questions on ur head now :(

wud u give me answer only of my 3rd question plsssssssssssssssssssssss

as u r draging any 1 into sunnis sect:)

will u tell me

Ahl' ul Sunnah or Ahl'ul Sunnah wa al Jamaah. Direct us towards any such verse of the Qur'an wherein any of these names have been indicated.

If these titles cannot be located in the Qur'an could you produce this title even from any hadith of the holy prophet (s)? Produce any such 'mutawatir' 'marfuu' or 'saheeh' narration from your books with a complete source ?

or r u going to say again this

Why would I answer a question when the basis of the question itself is wrong

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or r u going to say again this

Of course. Do you honestly expect a reply to a retarded question? If I ask you is 'Isa (as) a madman or is he god in one word, you'd be a kaafir to merit it a response in one of those categories. The first question is inherently flawed, with an understanding based on narrations that actually condemn your religion.

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Of course. Do you honestly expect a reply to a retarded question? If I ask you is 'Isa (as) a madman or is he god in one word, you'd be a kaafir to merit it a response in one of those categories. The first question is inherently flawed, with an understanding based on narrations that actually condemn your religion.

What are you speaking of? It is agreed by both Shi'a Muslims and Sunnis that the Shi'a of Ali(as) will be in heaven! You sunnis are lovers of the demon pig scum muawiyah ibn abi sufyan(la) who rebelled against Imam Ali(as) the rightful Imam; at the Battle of Siffin. Even your Sunni sources tell us whoever rebels against the Imam (leader) of his age dies a death of jahiliyyah (or days of ignorance). Also in the battle of Siffin; the deviant rebel army of the demon pig scum muawiyah ibn abi sufyan(la) killed the great righteous sahabi Ammar ibn Yasir(ra); again on the orders of their demon leader muawiyah(la). Even the Sunni alleged "Sahih" sources tells us the following about those kaafirs that would kill Ammar ibn Yasir(ra)

Sahih al-Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Number 438:

Narrated 'Ikrima:

Ibn 'Abbas said to me and to his son 'Ali, "Go to Abu Sa'id and listen to what he narrates." So we went and found him in a garden looking after it. He picked up his Rida', wore it and sat down and started narrating till the topic of the construction of the mosque reached. He said, "We were carrying one adobe at a time while 'Ammar was carrying two. The Prophet saw him and started removing the dust from his body and said, "May Allah be Merciful to 'Ammar. He will be inviting them (i.e. his murderers, the rebellious group) to Paradise and they will invite him to Hell-fire." 'Ammar said, "I seek refuge with Allah from affliction."

end quote.

You have a chose to either follow Imam Ali(as) who is the path to Paradise; or to be a nasibi and follow the demon pig scum muawiyah ibn abi sufyan(la) who is the path to hellfire.

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Of course. Do you honestly expect a reply to a retarded question? If I ask you is 'Isa (as) a madman or is he god in one word, you'd be a kaafir to merit it a response in one of those categories. The first question is inherently flawed, with an understanding based on narrations that actually condemn your religion.

I must say you do have good comand of grammar, but the rest of you argument's our as you put inherently flawed!!

Edited by power

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I must say you do have good comand of grammar, but the rest of you argument's our as you put inherently flawed!!

There's nothing to argue here. Your co-religionist is using an unreliable narration, which (if he posted the entire riwayah) actually explicitly condemns Rawafid. And the question itself is just a game of semantics, none of scholars from Ahlus Sunnah have ever said that following the four Imaams (rah) has been explicitly commanded. A real comparison (as opposed to this baseless idiocy) would be to say "Show us a hadeeth where Rasul (saw) says to follow Sistani". Quite frankly, this is a flawed question - you are comparing a (weak) narration about the merits of a "sect" to a question about the merits of following a particular mujtahid.

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There are much difference among four Sunni schools even. They do not even feel reluctance in cursing each other. Basically Sunnis have to close the door of Ijtehad because more than seventy Sunni sects came into existance and all of them had separate scholors and Imams then it was decided that the door of Ijtehad be closed and that is not re opened again. These four schools of thoughts interpreted Islam in such a way that there created huge differences among them and also with the real Quran and Sunnah. Due to such contradictions among them a new sect "Ghair Muqalideen" came into existance in Sunni islam. Ofcourse contradictions have such results. This was the declaration of Holy Prophet (sawaw) that "if you will follow Quran and Ahl ul bait (as) after me (sawaw) then you will succeed and both of them will remain side by side and never separate from each other and if you will leave them you will never prosper". THEY LEFT QURAN AND AHL UL BAIT A.S AND THEN LOST THEMSELVES IN THE HELL OF DARKNESS AND DESTRUCTION AND DIVISION. THE ULTIMATE RESULT OF REFUSING THE ORDER OF HOLY PROPHET (pbuh)

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There are much difference among four Sunni schools even. They do not even feel reluctance in cursing each other. Basically Sunnis have to close the door of Ijtehad because more than seventy Sunni sects came into existance and all of them had separate scholors and Imams then it was decided that the door of Ijtehad be closed and that is not re opened again. These four schools of thoughts interpreted Islam in such a way that there created huge differences among them and also with the real Quran and Sunnah. Due to such contradictions among them a new sect "Ghair Muqalideen" came into existance in Sunni islam. Ofcourse contradictions have such results. This was the declaration of Holy Prophet (sawaw) that "if you will follow Quran and Ahl ul bait (as) after me (sawaw) then you will succeed and both of them will remain side by side and never separate from each other and if you will leave them you will never prosper". THEY LEFT QURAN AND AHL UL BAIT A.S AND THEN LOST THEMSELVES IN THE HELL OF DARKNESS AND DESTRUCTION AND DIVISION. THE ULTIMATE RESULT OF REFUSING THE ORDER OF HOLY PROPHET (pbuh)

...and they lived happily ever after.

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There are much difference among four Sunni schools even. They do not even feel reluctance in cursing each other. Basically Sunnis have to close the door of Ijtehad because more than seventy Sunni sects came into existance and all of them had separate scholors and Imams then it was decided that the door of Ijtehad be closed and that is not re opened again. These four schools of thoughts interpreted Islam in such a way that there created huge differences among them and also with the real Quran and Sunnah. Due to such contradictions among them a new sect "Ghair Muqalideen" came into existance in Sunni islam. Ofcourse contradictions have such results. This was the declaration of Holy Prophet (sawaw) that "if you will follow Quran and Ahl ul bait (as) after me (sawaw) then you will succeed and both of them will remain side by side and never separate from each other and if you will leave them you will never prosper". THEY LEFT QURAN AND AHL UL BAIT A.S AND THEN LOST THEMSELVES IN THE HELL OF DARKNESS AND DESTRUCTION AND DIVISION. THE ULTIMATE RESULT OF REFUSING THE ORDER OF HOLY PROPHET (pbuh)

The four main Sunni scholars have differences, yes, but they are all valid opinions based upon their methodologies. For example, some companions prayed with their hands on their side. One famous companion who strictly followed sunnah, Abdullah ibn Umar (ra), prayed with his hands on his chest. Ali (ra) narrated in a sahih chain that it is from the sunnah to pray with the hands below the navel. So which one is right if all of them are true narrations?

The thing is that we look at the TEACHINGS before making a JUDGEMENT.

Your 70 sects argument is weak, because the Shias have dozens of sects, as well. We all know that many of them worship Ali (ra), as well.

The Quran strictly said to follow Allah (swt) and His Messenger. Therefore, that is what we follow.

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