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In the Name of God بسم الله

[MERGED] Sanads And Rijal

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(bismillah)

After the most recent queries on the Fiqhi Hadiths thread inquiring about the status on the sanads on some hadiths, and in response to the numerous questions folks have asked me in this regard, I thought it would be good, in sha Allah, to start a separate thread for this. In this thread, the intent would be for folks to post hadith (on any topic, but so long as it is from a Shi`a book) where they might ask me (or whoever can do it) to check up on the status of the sanad. A few ground rules though:

- Post the hadith with reference. (No "I heard a speaker say during a majlis that the Imam said "...", is this true?") Best thing is if you can find the Arabic, with sanad, and post that directly here. If not that, try to at least provide what book it's from (preferably with chapter, page number, etc.)

- My comments on the sanad should not be taken as a statement on the authenticity of the hadith itself. A hadith with a weak sanad might be in fact authentic, and a hadith whose sanad appears to be ok might not be authentic (or have been said in taqiyya, be missing some context, etc.)

- My method is to analyze the individual narrators, and basically look for problems, particularly on the look out for weak narrators.

- Sometimes I may not be able to make more definitive statements. Perhaps there isn't anything said for good or bad about a narrator. Or, perhaps there's ambiguity in the identity of the narrator, like when several different narrators share the same name.

- Finding the status of hadiths in al-Kafi (per al-Majlisi) is easiest to do (for me). Finding the status of hadiths in Man La Yahdhuruhu al-Faqih (per al-Hilli) is perhaps second easiest. Requiring more work is researching hadiths from the more secondary works.

- I'm not an expert in this. I do have some idea and experience in looking stuff up though. Take this as a research exercise, not an authoritative series of statements.

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In that chain, it's from the supposed Musnad of Zayd b. `Ali as reported by Abu Khalid `Amr b. Khalid. The work is likely a forgery of the latter though. It is only reported through this latter, and

^It that 'thiqah' for him or his brother? There seems be controversies regarding his tawthiq. . . هذا بالنسبة للمتن وأما سند الرواية ففيه الحسين بن علوان وهو عامي كما قال الطوسي نفسه في كتاب الا

^Not biased at all and clearly in accordance with the principles of ilm ar-rijaal. w/s

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Ahsant. JazakAllah khayr, brother.

Finding the status of hadiths in al-Kafi (per al-Majlisi) is easiest to do (for me). Finding the status of hadiths in Man La Yahdhuruhu al-Faqih (per al-Hilli) is perhaps second easiest. Requiring more work is researching hadiths from the more secondary works.

I know you can check the status of ahadith in al-Kafi from Miraat al-Uqul; but for Man la Yahdhuruhu al-Faqih, which book are you going to refer to, of Allamah Hilli? Is it online or downloadable?

Thanks.

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Ahsant. JazakAllah khayr, brother.

I know you can check the status of ahadith in al-Kafi from Miraat al-Uqul; but for Man la Yahdhuruhu al-Faqih, which book are you going to refer to, of Allamah Hilli? Is it online or downloadable?

Thanks.

The majority of Shaykh Saduq's Man La Yahdhuruhu al-Faqih's narrations will either list only the first narrator or two in the chain, or it does not list the narrators at all. For the former, we refer to his Mashyakha to see what the more complete chain is. In that, he lists the various narrators he's mentioned in al-Faqih, laying out what his path to the narrator was. So, it's then a matter of verifying that path. In the eighth fa'ida at the end of `Allama Hilli's Khulasat al-Aqwal, which is a book of rijal of his, he lists those various narrators and says whether the Shaykh's path to them is sahih, dha`if, etc. (This is for those paths that he feels he can say something on, if the narrators are unknown then he hasn't listed them, so far as I can tell). As to those that have no isnad, then we have to see if that narration is listed in another book but with isnad (and then check on that). If not, it is mursal.

As to `Allama Hilli's book, here's some links to it:

http://www.yasoob.com/books/htm1/m020/23/no2327.html

http://www.u-of-islam.net/uofislam/maktaba...0alaqwal/a1.htm

The copy I like to use though is from the downloadable zip file here:

http://www.maktabalevi.com/Ar/rijal/index.html

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I have a question about isnad in general. I've read some things in al-Kafi and many of the hadith have "from a group of reliable narrators" or something of the sort. Are any of those hadith actually sahih within themselves or just because they conform to another hadith that has an actually person by person chain or that they satisfy logic? I can't the example of where I read it from. I'll try to find one and get back to here asap.

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WOW nice thread.

Brother Can u locate that from where I can find Rijal Al-Kashi?

Let me quote this hadith:

Úäå Úä ÇáÚÈÇÓ Úä Úáí Èä ÇÓãÇÚíá Úä ãÍãÏ Èä Íßíã ÞÇá: ÇáãíËãí áÇ ÃÚáãå ÅáÇ ÞÇá ÑÃíÊ ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã Ãæ ãä ÑÂå ãÊÌÑÏÇ æÚáì ÚæÑÊå ËæÈ ÝÞÇá: Çä ÇáÝÎÐ áíÓÊ ãä ÇáÚæÑÉ

Narrated from him from Al-'Abbas from Ali b. Ismaïl from Muhammad b.

Hakim he said: Al-Maythamee said I never saw Abu Abdallah undressed

or not covering his 'awra with a cloth; He said: thigh is not part of

'Awra.

"Tahzib al ahkam" vol 1, p 374, narration (8) 1150.

Brother I was unable to understand this tradition so I hope u may confirm its authenticity along with some explanation.

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WOW nice thread.

Brother Can u locate that from where I can find Rijal Al-Kashi?

Let me quote this hadith:

Brother I was unable to understand this tradition so I hope u may confirm its authenticity along with some explanation.

The last part of narration is mentioned in Man La Yadharul Faqeeh Vol. 1, h. 253.

It means thighs doesn't comes under 'private parts'[awrah].

"- æÞÇá ÇáÕÇÏÞ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã: " ÇáÝÎÐ áíÓ ãä ÇáÚæÑÉ .

w/s

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I have a question about isnad in general. I've read some things in al-Kafi and many of the hadith have "from a group of reliable narrators" or something of the sort. Are any of those hadith actually sahih within themselves or just because they conform to another hadith that has an actually person by person chain or that they satisfy logic? I can't the example of where I read it from. I'll try to find one and get back to here asap.

When Thiqqat al-Islam al-Kulayni (ar) would start his isnad with "a group of our companions", this is a known group that he would be quoting from. In the third fa'ida at the end of Allama Hilli's book, we read:

ÇáÝÇÆÏÉ ÇáËÇáËÉ

ÞÇá ÇáÔíÎ ÇáÕÏæÞ ãÍãÏ Èä íÚÞæÈ Çáßáíäí Ýí ßÊÇÈå ÇáßÇÝí Ýí ÇÎÈÇÑ ßËíÑÉ ÚÏÉ ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚíÓì ÞÇá æ Èä ÇÏÑíÓ æÚáì Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã Èä åÇÔã æÞÇá ßáãÇ ÐßÑÊå Ýí ßÊÇÈí ÇáãÔÇÑ Çáíå ÚÏÉ ãä ÇÕÍÇÈäÇ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÎÇáÏ ÇáÈÑÞí Ýåã Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã æÚáí Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚÈÏÇááå Èä ÇÐíäå æÃÍãÏ Èä ÚÈÏÇááå Èä ÇãíÉ æÚáí Èä ÇáÍÓä ÞÇá æßáãÇ ÐßÑÊå Ýí ßÊÇÈì ÇáãÔÇÑ Çáíå ÚÏÉ ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ Úä Óåá Èä ÒíÇÏ Ýåã Úáì Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚáÇä æãÍãÏ Èä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå æãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÍÓä æãÍãÏ Èä ÚÞíá Çáßáíäí.

"The truthful Shaykh, Muhammad b. Ya`qub al-Kulayni, in his book al-Kafi said in many narrations "a group of our companions" from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa. He said: And the meaning of my saying "a group of our companions" is Muhammad b. Yahya, `Ali b. Musa al-Kamandani, Dawud b. Kurah, Ahmad b. Idris, and `Ali b. Ibrahim b. Hashim. And he said: Whenever I have referred in my aforementioned book to "a group of our companions" from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Khalid al-Barqi, then they are `Ali b. Ibrahim, `Ali b. Muhammad b. `Abdulllah b. Udhaynah, Ahmad b. `Abdullah b. Umayya, and `Ali b. al-Hasan. He said: Whenever I have referred in my aforementioned book to "a group of our companions" from Sahl b. Ziyad, then they are `Ali b. Muhammad b. `Alan, Muhammad b. Abu `Abdillah, Muhammad b. al-Hasan, and Muhammad b. `Aqil al-Kulayni."

Now, this is when the first link to al-Kulayni himself is being mentioned as a "group of our companions." Otherwise, if you read it for instance later in the chain like X from Y from a group of our companions from Z, then unless it was otherwise known who that was referring to, then the chain would be considered mursal.

In and of itself, the fact that that al-Kulayni says "a group of our companions" at the beginning of his isnad is not a guarantee of the sihhat of the chain. For instance, in the last one cited above, a group of our companions from Sahl b. Ziyad, many `ulama have considered Sahl to have been weak (he's the subject of much discussion in rijal).

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assalam-o-allaikom

brother i would just like to ask if books of rijal are available in english as well......and in urdu ,though i dont think any is available in urdu.....

may Allah reward you for your help...amin

wa `alaykum as-salam,

Urdu I wouldn't know, but as Jondab has mentioned, there's nothing of this sort available yet in English. In sha Allah, it's something I'd like to see get addressed and am hoping that this thread might be a step in collecting some of this together.

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Brother Can u locate that from where I can find Rijal Al-Kashi?

There was a decently readable online copy on al-shia.com, but that's been down since the attacks on the Shi`a websites. I'm not sure where else it might be in terms of online copies.

EDIT: Ah, excellent. I see they've brought the site back up but as al-shia.org now instead. al-Kashshi's work can be found in this section:

http://www.al-shia.org/html/ara/books/?mod=rejal

(note however, as important a source it is, al-Kashshi's work has long been known to contain many errors in it)

Úäå Úä ÇáÚÈÇÓ Úä Úáí Èä ÇÓãÇÚíá Úä ãÍãÏ Èä Íßíã ÞÇá: ÇáãíËãí áÇ ÃÚáãå ÅáÇ ÞÇá ÑÃíÊ ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã Ãæ ãä ÑÂå ãÊÌÑÏÇ æÚáì ÚæÑÊå ËæÈ ÝÞÇá: Çä ÇáÝÎÐ áíÓÊ ãä ÇáÚæÑÉ

Unlike the more common view among Sunnis (correct me if I'm wrong on that), it is not an uncommon view amongst Shi`i fuqaha that the thigh is not a part of the `awra. But this thread is not really to get into the fiqh of the hadiths. As to the sanad though, let's break it down. I'd like to go in somewhat more detail on this one as to how I've found these, so folks might get an idea how it works.

First it says `anhu, from him. So who is this "him" that's being referred to? For that, I looked up the hadith in at-Tahdhib, and looked at the hadith that preceded it. That also said `anhu, so I kept going up till I reached a narration in the chapter that started with an actual name, and it was Muhammad b. `Ali b. Mahbub. This same narrator also narrated from an al-`Abbas in a number of other narrations, so I figured we had the correct one. Anyhow, regarding him, `Allama Hilli states:

107 - ãÍãÏ Èä Úáí Èä ãÍÈæÈ ÇáÇÔÚÑí ÇáÞãí¡ ÃÈæ ÌÚÝÑ¡ ÔíÎ ÇáÞãííä Ýí ÒãÇäå¡ ËÞÉ Úíä¡ ÝÞíå¡ ÕÍíÍ ÇáãÐåÈ.

Muhammad b. `Ali b. Mahbub al-Ash`ari al-Qummi, Abu Ja`far, Shaykh of the Qummis in his time. Thiqqa `Ayn. Faqih. Sahih al-Madhhab.

So from this we can see that he was a shaykh of Qum and a faqih, that he was of the Ash`ari family (who were a very prominent family in Qum at the time), that he was thiqqa `ayn (so someone that's considered trustworthy, the narrator being listed as thiqqa is very key in determining the sihhat of the chain), and that his beliefs were correct (i.e. he was an Imami, not a Sunni, a Waqifi, a Zaydi, a Ghali, etc.). All in all, this narrator would be considered reliable.

As to the next narrator, this narration simply says al-`Abbas. Of course, there are many al-`Abbas'es that have narrated hadiths, so how to know which one this is? Well for that, I looked through the narrations that preceded this, where Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Mahbub narrated from al-`Abbas, hoping that eventually I might find his more full name (i.e. with mention of who his father was.) And, indeed I seem to, where going up some, I found a narration from Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Mahbub from al-`Abbas b. Ma`ruf, so I figured this was the one. As to him `Allama writes:

4 - ÇáÚÈÇÓ Èä ãÚÑæÝ¡ ãæáì ÌÚÝÑ Èä ÚãÑÇä Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå ÇáÇÔÚÑí¡ Þãí¡ ËÞÉ¡ ÕÍíÍ.

al-`Abbas b. Ma`ruf, Client (mawla) of Ja`far b. `Imran b. `Abdullah al-Ash`ari, Qummi, Thiqqa, Sahih.

So here we see he was a client of Ja`far b. `Imran, who was a part of that al-Ash`ari family I mentioned. He was also a Qummi. In fact, one will find that perhaps the majority of our hadiths, especially if narrated by either Shaykh Kulayni or Shaykh Saduq, will have come via a Qummi chain. As to this narrator, he is listed as thiqqa, and sahih. So again, another reliable narrator.

Next is `Ali b. Isma`il. Here `Allama lists two of them, both are counted amongst the reliable narrators, but still, which one was it? Well the hadith mentions al-Maythami in it, so I figure it's this one:

Úáí Èä ÇÓãÇÚíá Èä ÔÚíÈ Èä ãíËã Èä íÍíì ÇáÊãÇÑ¡ ÃÈæ ÇáÍÓä ÇáãíËãí¡ Çæá ãä Êßáã Úáì ãÐåÈ ÇáÇãÇãíÉ æÕäÝ ßÊÇÈÇ Ýí ÇáÇãÇãÉ¡ ßÇä ßæÝíÇ æÓßä ÇáÈÕÑÉ¡ æßÇä ãä æÌæå ÇáãÊßáãíä ãä ÇÕÍÇÈäÇ¡ ßáã ÃÈæ ÇáåÐíá ÇáÚáÇÝ æÇáäÙÇã.

`Ali b. Isma`il b. Shu`ayb b. Maytham b. Yahya at-Tammar, Abu 'l-Hasan al-Maythami, the first one who did kalam upon the Imami madhhab and wrote a book on Imamate. He was Kufan, and resided in Basra. He was from amongst the prominent mutakallims of our companions. He did kalam (i.e. he debated with) Abu 'l-Hudhayl al-`Allaf and an-Nidham.

Now, this doesn't mention that he was thiqqa specifically, but nonetheless `Allama has included him amongst the reliable narrators (his books is largely divided in two, reliable narrators and those that are not relied upon). Shaykh Tusi in his description of him writes:

[ 374 ] 1 - Úáí Èä ÇÓãÇÚíá Èä ãíËã ÇáÊãÇÑ 1¡ æãíËã ãä ÇÌáÉ ÇÕÍÇÈ ÇãíÑ ÇáãÄãäíä Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã¡ æÚáí åÐÇ Çæá ãä Êßáã Úáì ãÐåÈ ÇáÇãÇãíÉ¡ æÕäÝ ßÊÇÈÇ Ýí ÇáÇãÇãÉ ÓãÇå ÇáßÇãá¡ æáå ßÊÇÈ ÇáÇÓÊÍÞÇÞ ÑÖí Çááå Úäå.

`Ali b. Isma`il b. Maytham at-Tammar. Maytham was from the esteemed companions of Amir al-Mu'mineen (as), and this `Ali was the first one who did kalam upon the Imami madhhab, and he wrote a book on Imamate he called al-Kamil, and he has the book al-Istihqaq, may Allah be pleased with him.

So from this we can see that Shaykh Tusi thought highly of him. (Notice however though Tusi has skipped or missed the name of his grandfather though, Shu`ayb? Same person however.)

So the final person in the chain, Muhammad b. Hakim. `Allama writes:

65 - ãÍãÏ Èä Íßíã. Ñæì ÇáßÔí Çä ÇÈÇ ÇáÍÓä (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) ßÇä íÑÖì ßáÇãå ÚäÏ ÐßÑ ÇÕÍÇÈ ÇáßáÇã

Muhammad b. Hakim, al-Kashshi narrated that Abu 'l-Hasan (as) was pleased with his kalam (i.e. his debate) with the ashab al-kalam.

More details on this can be found in other books, but it seems from his description he is also someone who is well-thought of amongst us.

One more thing to consider here though is: what's the connection between Muhammad b. `Ali b. Mahbub and Shaykh Tusi (compiler of at-Tahdhib)? And how reliable is that chain? So, turning to `Allama's work, he says that the path between Tusi and Muhammad b. `Ali b. Mahbub is sahih. (this is listed in the same eighth fa'ida I mentioned above in reference to the paths in Shaykh Saduq's al-Faqih).

Now, what I'm not seeing though is specific mention on some of these being explicitly referred to as thiqqa, however, I've not found anything negative on them, and `Allama has listed each of them amongst his reliable narrators. So would this hadith meet the standard of being sahih? Well to be sahih, all the narrators must be thiqqa and Imami, all known and connected. So I don't know whether the lack of some being explicitly called thiqqa would prevent that. However, my point in this thread is not actually to declare any hadith as sahih, but to give an analysis of the elements. Now if someone such as al-Majlisi has said such and such narration is sahih, hasan, etc., then I'd feel more comfortable quoting their verdict of its status (rather than me doing so myself).

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Salam bro masiaac,

I have a question. I remember skimming through this book by Ahmad al-Katib, and he claimed that Allamah al-Hilli believed that we have no sahih hadith that reach up to the Imams.

I was wondering if you could elaborate on this insh'Allah because for one, he doesn't give a source so I can't check myself, and two, it doesn't make sense because he narrated sahih hadiths himself that went up to the Imams.

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Here is the quote from the translation of the book (although its a very bad translation):

It's been said that Allama Al Hulai denies the presence of shahih hadiths that are traced back to the infallible Imam through just Imamates. In any case, Allama Al Hulai wrote a new book where he compiled in it the sahih and hasan hadiths from all four books. He gave his book the title "Pearls and Corals" (sic).
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I have a question. I remember skimming through this book by Ahmad al-Katib, and he claimed that Allamah al-Hilli believed that we have no sahih hadith that reach up to the Imams.
It's been said that Allama Al Hulai denies the presence of shahih hadiths that are traced back to the infallible Imam through just Imamates. In any case, Allama Al Hulai wrote a new book where he compiled in it the sahih and hasan hadiths from all four books. He gave his book the title "Pearls and Corals" (sic).

Al Hilli didn't say there is no sahih ahadith, but that there is no ahadith that have an adl imami in every part of it's sanad.

ÇáÑÇÈÚ ÚÔÑ : Ãäå íÓÊáÒã ÖÚÝ ÃßËÑ ÇáÃÍÇÏíË ¡ ÇáÊí ÞÏ Úáã äÞáåÇ ãä ÇáÃÕæá

ÇáãÌãÚ ÚáíåÇ ¡ áÃÌá ÖÚÝ ÈÚÖ ÑæÇÊåÇ ¡ Ãæ ÌåÇáÊåã ¡ Ãæ ÚÏã ÊæËíÞåã ¡ Ýíßæä ÊÏæíäåÇ ÚÈËÇ ¡ Èá ãÍÑøãÇ ¡ æÔåÇÏÊåã ÈÕÍÊåÇ ÒæÑÇ æßÐÈÇ .

æíáÒã ÈØáÇä ÇáÅÌãÇÚ ¡ ÇáÐí Úáã ÏÎæá ÇáãÚÕæã Ýíå Ü ÃíÖÇ Ü ßãÇ ÊÞÏã .

æÇááæÇÒã ÈÇØáÉ ¡ æßÐÇ ÇáãáÒæã .

Èá íÓÊáÒã ÖÚÝ ÇáÃÍÇÏíË ßáåÇ ¡ ÚäÏ ÇáÊÍÞíÞ ¡ áÃä ÇáÕÍíÍ Ü ÚäÏåã Ü : « ãÇ ÑæÇå ÇáÚÏá ¡ ÇáÅãÇãíø ¡ ÇáÖÇÈØ ¡ Ýí ÌãíÚ ÇáØÈÞÇÊ » .

æáã íäÕæÇ Úáì ÚÏÇáÉ ÃÍÏ ãä ÇáÑæÇÉ ¡ ÅáÇ äÇÏÑÇð ¡ æÅäãÇ äÕæÇ Úáì ÇáÊæËíÞ ¡ æåæ áÇíÓÊáÒã ÇáÚÏÇáÉ ¡ ÞØÚÇ ¡ Èá ÈíäåãÇ Úãæã ãä æÌå ¡ ßãÇ ÕÑÍ Èå ÇáÔåíÏ ÇáËÇäí ¡ æÛíÑå .

æÏÚæì ÈÚÖ ÇáãÊÃÎÑíä : Ãä « ÇáËÞÉ » ÈãÚäì « ÇáÚÏá ¡ ÇáÖÇÈØ » .

ããäæÚÉ ¡ æåæ ãØÇáÈ ÈÏáíáåÇ .

æßíÝ ¿ æåã ãÕÑÍæä ÈÎáÇÝåÇ ¡ ÍíË íæËÞæä ãä íÚÊÞÏæä ÝÓÞå ¡ æßÝÑå ¡ æÝÓÇÏ ãÐåÈå ¿ !

æÅäãÇ ÇáãÑÇÏ ÈÇáËÞÉ : ãä íæËÞ ÈÎÈÑå ¡ æíÄãä ãäå ÇáßÐÈ ÚÇÏÉ ¡ æÇáÊÊÈÚ ÔÇåÏ Èå ¡ æÞÏ ÕÑÍ ÈÐáß ÌãÇÚÉ ãä ÇáãÊÞÏãíä ¡ æÇáãÊÃÎÑíä .

æãä ãÚáæã Ü ÇáÐí áÇÑíÈ Ýíå ¡ ÚäÏ ãäÕÝ Ü : Ãä ÇáËÞÉ ÊÌÇãÚ ÇáÝÓÞ ¡ Èá ÇáßÝÑ .

æÃÕÍÇÈ ÇáÇÕØáÇÍ ÇáÌÏíÏ ÞÏ ÇÔÊÑØæÇ Ü Ýí ÇáÑÇæí Ü ÇáÚÏÇáÉ ÝíáÒã ãä Ðáß ÖÚÝ ÌãíÚ ÃÍÇÏíËäÇ ¡ áÚÏã ÇáÚáã ÈÚÏÇáÉ ÃÍÏ ãäåã º ÅáÇ äÇÏÑÇ .

ÝÝí ÅÍÏÇË åÐÇ ÇáÇÕØáÇÍ ÛÝáÉ ¡ ãä ÌåÇÊ ãÊÚÏÏÉ ¡ ßãÇ ÊÑì .

æßÐáß ßæä ÇáÑÇæí ÖÚíÝÇ Ýí ÇáÍÏíË áÇ íÓÊáÒã ÇáÝÓÞ ¡ Èá íÌÊãÚ

http://www.rafed.net/books/hadith/wasael-30/30011.html#10

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/\ That's from Shaykh Hurr al-`Amuli (who was Akhbari and believed in the general sihhat of our narrations in our established books and rejected the validity of dirayat as such), so what does that have to do with `Allama Hilli (whose book on rijal I've been using here, and who used the fourfold classification (sahih, hasan, qawi, dha`if))? Anyhow, I'm not sure the quote you've listed has anything to do with this. He's rejecting the criteria for each narrator being listed as `adil as being a false criterion, as he's saying that what's been reported about them is their tawthiq (which he says being thiqqa means that they don't lie in their reporting, and that they can be trusted in that), which he says does not necessitate being `adil. He's not saying that no hadith exists which has been reported by narrators who were thiqqa, Imami, `adil, but he's saying that they're being "`adil" is not something that is generally reported, unlike they're having been reported to be Imami and/or thiqqa.

As to what Ahmad al-Katib has written, I'm not sure what he means. "It's been said"? By whom? `Allama Hilli certainly believed we have sahih hadiths, but as to what his criterion was in terms of how that got defined, I don't have that handy.

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Brother Massiac is this tradition authentic

80 - ÔÇ : Ñæì ÃÈæÈÕíÑ ( ÞÇá : ) ÞÇá ÃÈæÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã : ÅÐÇ ÞÇã ÇáÞÇÆã åÏã ÇáãÓÌÏ ÇáÍÑÇã ÍÊì íÑÏå Åáì ÃÓÇÓå æÍæá ÇáãÞÇã Åáì ÇáãæÖÚ ÇáÐí ßÇä Ýíå ¡ æÞØÚ ÃíÏí Èäí ÔíÈÉ ¡ æÚáÞåÇ Úáì ÈÇÈ ÇáßÚÈÉ ¡ æßÊÈ ÚáíåÇ : åÄáÇÁ ÓÑÇÞ ÇáßÚÈÉ

Bihar vol 52 pg 338 narration no 80 taken from this version:

http://al-shia.org/html/ara/books/lib-hadi...ar52/index.html

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Salaamun `alaikum

Copy-pasting from the other thread:

I am providing the complete Hadith itself (with the chain) in all cases from the following link:

http://yasoob.org/books/htm1/m012/09/no0996.html

Although I found another Hadith in `Ilal al Sharaa'e` that attributes the reason for this to the Prophet (pbuh) 's mi`raj and the way he was commanded to pray over there - when angels were asked to follow his lead, the prayers were to be recited loudly (maghrib, `ishaa', jum`ah); and as for fajr Salah that his (saww) great rank be manifest to the angels. Could you comment on the SiHat of this narration.

(ÈÇÈ 12 - ÇáÚáÉ ÇáÊí ãä ÃÌáåÇ íÌåÑ ÈÇáÞÑÇÁÉ Ýí ÕáÇÉ ÇáÙåÑ) íæã ÇáÌãÚÉ æÕáÇÉ ÇáãÛÑÈ æÇáÚÔÇÁ ÇáÂÎÑÉ æÇáÛÏÇÉ æáÇ) (íÌåÑ Ýí ÇáÙåÑ æÇáÚÕÑ Ýí ÓÇÆÑ ÇáÇíÇã¡ æÇáÚáÉ ÇáÊí ãä ÃÌáåÇ) (ÕÇÑ ÇáÊÓÈíÍ Ýí ÇáÑßÚÊíä ÇáÇÎíÑÊíä ÃÝÖá ãä ÇáÞÑÇÁÉ) 1 - ÍÏËäÇ ÍãÒÉ Èä ãÍãÏ ÇáÚáæí ÑÍãå Çááå ÞÇá: ÃÎÈÑäÇ Úáí Èä ÇÈÑÇåíã ÇÈä åÇÔã Úä ÇÈíå Úä Úí Èä ãÚÈÏ Úä ÇáÍÓä Èä ÎÇáÏ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÍãÒÉ ÞÇá: ÞáÊ áÇÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã áÇí ÚáÉ íÌåÑ Ýí ÕáÇÉ ÇáÝÌÑ æÕáÇÉ ÇáãÛÑÈ æÇáÚÔÇÁ ÇáÂÎÑÉ æÓÇÆÑ ÇáÕáæÇÊ ãËá ÇáÙåÑ æÇáÚÕÑ áÇ íÌåÑ ÝíåÇ æáÇí ÚáÉ ÕÇÑ ÇáÊÓÈíÍ Ýí ÇáÑßÚÊíä ÇáÇÎíÑÊíä ÃÝÖá ãä ÇáÞÑÇÁÉ¿ ÞÇá: áÇä ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå áãÇ ÃÓÑí Èå Åáì ÇáÓãÇÁ ßÇä Ãæá ÕáÇÉ ÝÑÖåÇ Çááå Úáíå ÕáÇÉ ÇáÙåÑ íæã ÇáÌãÚÉ ÝÇÖÇÝ Çááå ÊÚÇáì Åáíå ÇáãáÇÆßÉ ÊÕáì ÎáÝå æÃãÑ Çááå ÚÒæÌá äÈíå Ãä íÌåÑ ÈÇáÞÑÇÁÉ áíÈíä áåã ÝÖáå Ëã¡ ÇÝÊÑÖ Úáíå ÇáÚÕÑ æáã íÖÝ Åáíå ÃÍÏÇ ãä ÇáãáÇÆßÉ æÃãÑå Ãä íÎÝí ÇáÞÑÇÁÉ áÇäå áã íßä æÑÇÁå ÃÍÏ Ëã ÇÝÊÑÖ Úáíå ÇáãÛÑÈ Ëã ÃÖÇÝ Åáíå ÇáãáÇÆßÉ ÝÃãÑå ÈÇáÇÌåÇÑ æßÐáß ÇáÚÔÇÁ ÇáÂÎÑÉ¡ ÝáãÇ ßÇä ÞÑÈ ÇáÝÌÑ ÇÝÊÑÖ ÇáÇáå ÊÚÇáì Úáíå ÇáÝÌÑ ÝÃãÑå ÈÇáÇÌåÇÑ æáíÈíä ááäÇÓ ÝÖáå ßãÇ Èíä ááãáÇÆßÉ ÝáåÐå ÇáÚáÉ íÌåÑ ÝíåÇ¡ ÝÞáÊ áÇì ÔÆ ÕÇÑ ÇáÊÓÈíÍ Ýí ÇáÇÎíÑÊíä ÃÝÖá ãä ÇáÞÑÇÁÉ¿ ÞÇá: áÇäå áãÇ ßÇä Ýí ÇáÇÎíÑÊíä ÐßÑ ãÇ íÙåÑ ãä ÚÙãÉ Çááå ÚÒæÌá ÝÏåÔ æÞÇá: ÓÈÍÇä Çááå æÇáÍãÏ Çááå æáÇ Åáå ÅáÇ Çááå æÇááå ÇßÈÑ ÝáÐáß ÇáÚáÉ ÕÇÑ ÇáÊÓÈíÍ ÃÝÖá ãä ÇáÞÑÇÁÉ

In the Hadith about covering oneself to the maximum extent possible, since everything prays to Allah along with the person, it is given that the Holy Prophet (saww) donned footwear while praying. ?

(ÈÇÈ 33 - ÚáÉ ÇÓÊÍÈÇÈ ÇáÂáÇÊ æÇáÇßËÇÑ ãä ÇáËíÇÈ Ýí ÇáÕáÇÉ) 1 - ÃÈí ÑÍãå Çááå ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ Úáí Èä ÇÈÑÇåíã Úä ÃÈíå Úä ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ãíãæä ÇáÞÏÇÍ Úä ÌÚÝÑ Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÃÈíå ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã ÞÇá Çä ßÇä ÔÆ Úáíß ÊÕáì Ýíå íÓÈÍ ãÚß ÞÇá æßÇä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ÅÐÇ ÇÞíãÊ ÇáÕáÇÉ áÈÓ äÚáíå æÕáì ÝíåãÇ

Then there's another which states that it is necessary to recite the adhan in the fajr and maghrib prayers, and especially so for an ailing person, even if he not be able to recite it audibly. ?

(ÈÇÈ 25 - ÇáÚáÉ ÇáÊí ãä ÃÌáåÇ áÇ íÌæÒ ááÑÌá Ãä íÕáì ÈÞæã) (Ãæ æÍÏå æåæ ãÊæÔÍ æÇáÚáÉ ÇáÊí ãä ÃÌáåÇ áÇ íÌæÒ) (ááãÑíÖ ÊÑß ÇáÇÐÇä æÇáÇÞÇãÉ) 1 - ÃÈí ÑÍãå Çááå ÞÇá ÍÏËäÇ ÓÚÏ Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå Úä ÇÍãÏ Èä ÇáÍÓä Èä Úáí ÇÈä ÝÖÇá Úä ÚãÑæ Èä ÓÚíÏ Úä ãÕÏÞ Èä ÕÏÞÉ Úä ÚãÇÑ ÇáÓÇÈÇØíì ÞÇá ÓÃáÊ ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏ Çááå (Ú) Úä ÇáÑÌá íÄã ÈÞæã íÌæÒ áå Ãä íÊæÔÍ ÞÇá áÇ áÇ íÕáì ÇáÑÌá ÈÞæã æåæ ãÊæÔÍ ÝæÞ ËíÇÈå æÅä ßÇä Úáíå ËíÇÈ ßËíÑÉ áÇä ÇáÇãÇã áÇ íÌæÒ áå ÇáÕáÇÉ æåæ ãÊæÔÍ æÞÇá áÇ ÈÏ ááãÑíÖ Ãä íÄÐä æíÞíã ÅÐÇ ÃÑÇÏ ÇáÕáÇÉ æáæ Ýí äÝÓå Åä áã íÞÏÑ Úáì Ãä íÊßáã Èå ÈÓÈíá ÝÇä ßÇä ÔÏíÏ ÇáæÌÚ ÝáÇ ÈÏ áå ãä Ãä íÄÐä æíÞíã áÇäå áÇ ÕáÇÉ ÅáÇ ÈÇÐÇä æÅÞÇãÉ. ÞÇá: ãÍãÏ Èä Úáí ãÄáÝ åÐÇ ÇáßÊÇÈ íÚäì ÕáÇÉ ÇáÛÏÇÉ æÕáÇÉ ÇáãÛÑÈ

An uncircumcised man cannot lead a congregation in prayer, nor should his testimony ever be taken, nor should the Salat al mayyit be recited over him.

?

(ÈÇÈ 22 - ÇáÚáÉ ÇáÊí ãä ÃÌáåÇ áÇ íÌæÒ ááÇÛáÝ Ãä íÄã ÇáäÇÓ) 1 - ÃÈí ÑÍãå Çááå ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÓÚÏ Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå Úä ÃÈí ÇáÌæÒÇÁ ÞÇá: ÇáÇÛáÝ áÇ íÄã ÇáÞæã æÇä ßÇä ÇÞÑÃåã áÇäå ÖíÚ ãä ÇáÓäÉ ÃÚÙãåÇ æáÇ ÊÞÈá áå ÔåÇÏÉ æáÇ íÕáì Úáíå ÅÐÇ ãÇÊ ÅáÇ Ãä íßæä ÊÑß Ðáß ÎæÝÇ Úáì äÝÓ

^ This doesn't look like a Hadith to me; it's not leading upto a ma`Sum.

Neither the guest nor the host should keep a mustaHabb fast without the permission of the other. ?

(ÈÇÈ 115 - ÇáÚáÉ ÇáÊí ãä ÃÌáåÇ áÇ íäÈÛí ááÖíÝ Ãä íÕæã ÊØæÚÇ ÅáÇ) (ÈÇÐä ÕÇÍÈå æáÇ áÕÇÍÈå Ãä íÕæã ÊØæÚÇ ÅáÇ ÈÇÐä ÖíÝå) 1 - ÍÏËäÇ ãÍãÏ Èä ãæÓì Èä ÇáãÊæßá ÑÍãå Çááå ÞÇá ÍÏËäÇ Úáí Èä ÇáÍÓíä ÇáÓÚÏ ÂÈÇÏí Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå ÇáÈÑÞí¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ ÇáÓíÇÑí¡ Úä ãÍãÏ ÇÈä ÚÈÏ Çááå ÇáßæÝí Úä ÑÌá ÐßÑå ÞÇá: ÓãÚÊ ÇÈÇ ÌÚÝÑ (Ú) íÑæí Úä ÃÈíå Úä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ÞÇá: ÅÐÇ ÏÎá ÇáÑÌá ÈáÏÉ Ýåæ ÖíÝ Úáì ãä ÈåÇ Ãåá ãä Ïíäå ÍÊì íÑÍá Úäåã æáÇ íäÈÛí ááÖíÝ Ãä íÕæã ÅáÇ ÈÇÐäåã áÆáÇ íÚãáæÇ áå ÇáÔÆ ÝíÝÓÏ Úáíåã æáÇ íäÈÛí áåã Ãä íÕæãæÇ ÅáÇ ÈÇÐä ÖíÝåã áÆáÇ íÍÊÔãåã ÝíÔÊåì ÇáØÚÇã ÝíÊÑßå áãßÇäåã. 2 - ÍÏËäÇ Úáí Èä ÈäÏÇÑ Úä ÇÈÑÇåíã Èä ÇÓÍÇÞ ÈÇÓäÇÏå Úãä ÐßÑå Úä ÇáÝÖá ÇÈä íÓÇÑ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ (Ú) ÞÇá: ÞÇá ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ÅÐÇ ÏÎá ÑÌá ÈáÏÉ Ýåæ ÖíÝ Úáì ãä ÈåÇ ãä Ãåá Ïíäå ÍÊì íÑÍá Úäåã æáÇ íäÈÛí ááÖíÝ Ãä íÕæã ÅáÇ ÈÇÐäåã áÆáÇ íÚãáæÇ áå ÇáÔÆ ÝíÝÓÏ Úáíåã æáÇ íäÈÛí áåã Ãä íÕæãæÇ ÅáÇ ÈÇÐä ÇáÖíÝ áÆáÇ íÍÊÔãåã ÝíÔÊåí ÇáØÚÇã ÝíÊÑßå áãßÇäåã

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Adding to the above is the following Hadith on the creation of the pig and the cat. They are the result of the sneezing of the elephant and the lion, respectively?!

(ÈÇÈ 248 - ÚáÉ ÎáÞ ÇáåÑ æÇáÎäÒíÑ) 1 - ÃÎÈÑäÇ ÃÈæ ÚÈÏ Çááå ãÍãÏ Èä ÔÇÐÇä Èä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÚËãÇä ÇáÈÑÇæÐí¡ ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈæ Úáí ãÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÍÇÑË Èä ÓÝíÇä ÇáÍÇÝÙ ÇáÓãÑÞäÏí ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÕÇáÍ Èä ÓÚíÏ ÇáÊÑãÐí Úä ÚÈÏ ÇáãäÚã Èä ÇÏÑíÓ Úä ÃÈíå Úä æåÈ Èä ãäÈå ÇáíãÇäí ÞÇá: áãÇ ÑßÈ äæÍ (Ú) ÇáÓÝíäÉ ÇáÞì Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÇáÓßíäÉ Úáì ãÇ ÝíåÇ ãä ÇáÏæÇÈ æÇáØíÑ æÇáæÍÔ Ýáã íßä ÔÆ ãäåÇ íÖÑ ÔíÆÇ ßÇäÊ ÇáÔÇÉ ÊÍÊß ÈÇáÐÆÈ¡ æÇáÈÞÑÉ ÊÍÊ ÈÇáÇÓÏ¡ æÇáÚÕÝæÑ íÞÚ Úáì ÇáÍíÉ ÝáÇ íÖÑ ÔÆ ÔíÆÇ¡ æáÇ íåíÌå æáã íßä ÝíåÇ ÖÌÑ æáÇ ÕÎÈ æáÇ ÓÈ æáÇ áÚä ÞÏ ÇåãÊåã ÃäÝÓåã æÃÐåÈ Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÍãÉ ßá Ðí ÍãÉ Ýáã íÒÇáæÇ ßÐáß Ýí ÇáÓÝíäÉ ÍÊì ÎÑÌæÇ ãäåÇ æßÇä ÇáÝÃÑ ÞÏ ßËÑ Ýíå ÇáÓÝíäÉ æÇáÚÐÑÉ ÝÃæÍì Çááå ÊÚÇáì Åáì äæÍ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã Ãä íãÓÍ ÇáÇÓÏ ÝÚØÓ ÝÎÑÌ ãä ãäÎÑíå åÑÇä ÐßÑ æÇäËì ÝÎÝÝ ÇáÝÃÑ æãÓÍ æÌå ÇáÝíá ÝÚØÓ ÝÎÑÌ ãä ãäÎÑíä ÎäÒíÑÇä ÐßÑ æÇäËì ÝÎÝÝ ÇáÚÐÑÉ

And also the dog, which was created from the saliva of the Satan to guard Adam and Hawwa (`alaihima al salaam)?!

(ÈÇÈ 250 - ÚáÉ ÎáÞ ÇáßáÈ) 1 - ÍÏËäÇ ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚíÓì ÇáÚáæí ÇáÍÓíäí ÑÖí Çááå Úäå ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ãÍãÏ Èä ÇÈÑÇåíã Èä ÇÓÈÇØ ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ ÇáÞØÇä ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈæ ÇáØíÈ ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå ÞÇá ÍÏËäí ÚíÓì Èä ÌÚÝÑ ÇáÚáæí ÇáÚãÑí Úä ÂÈÇÆå Úä ÚãÑ Èä Úáí Úä ÃÈíå Úáí Èä ÃÈí ØÇáÈ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã: Çä ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ÓÆá ããÇ ÎáÞ Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÇáßáÈ¡ ÞÇá: ÎáÞå ãä ÈÒÇÞ ÇÈáíÓ¡ Þíá: æßíÝ ÐÇß íÇ ÑÓæá Çááå¿ ÞÇá: áãÇ ÃåÈØ Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÂÏã æÍæÇÁ Åáì ÇáÇÑÖ ÃåÈØåãÇ ßÇáÝÑÎíä ÇáãÑÊÚÔíä¡ ÝÚÏÇ ÇÈáíÓ ÇáãáÚæä Åáì ÇáÓÈÇÚ æßÇäæÇ ÞÈá ÂÏã Ýí ÇáÇÑÖ ÝÞÇá áåã: Çä ØíÑíä ÞÏ æÞÚÇ ãä ÇáÓãÇÁ áã íÑ ÇáÑÇÄä ÇÚÙã ãäåãÇ¡ ÊÚÇáæÇ ÝßáæåãÇ ÝÊÚÇÏÊ ÇáÓÈÇÚ ãÚå æÌÚá ÇÈáíÓ íÍËåã æíÕíÍ æíÚÏåã ÈÞÑÈ ÇáãÓÇÝÉ ÝæÞÚ ãä Ýíå ãä ÚÌáÉ ßáÇãå ÈÒÇÞ ÝÎáÞ Çááå ÊÚÇáì ãä Ðáß ÇáÈÒÇÞ ßáÈíä ÃÍÏåãÇ ÐßÑ æÇáÂÎÑ ÇäËì ÝÞÇãÇ Íæá ÂÏã æÍæÇÁ¡ ÇáßáÈÉ ÈÌÏÉ¡ æÇáßáÈ ÈÇáåäÏ Ýáã íÊÑßæÇ ÇáÓÈÇÚ Çä íÞÑÈæåãÇ¡ æãä Ðáß Çáíæã ÇáßáÈ ÚÏæ ÇáÓÈÚ¡ æÇáÓÈÚ ÚÏæ ÇáßáÈ

Interestingly, I found out that the fever of a single night is a compensation for a YEAR's sins because its effects remain in the body that long :excl:

(ÈÇÈ 233 - ÇáÚáÉ ÇáÊì ãä ÃÌáåÇ ÕÇÑÍãì áíáÉ ßÝÇÑÉ ÓäÉ) 1 - ÃÈì ÑÍãå Çááå ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÓÚÏ Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå¡ Úä ÇáÞÇÓã Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÓáíãÇä Èä ÏÇæÏ Úä ÓÝíÇä Èä ÚííäÉ Úä ÇáÒåÑí ÞÇá: ÓãÚÊ ÇÈÇ ÚÈÏ Çááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã íÞæá: Íãì áíáÉ ßÝÇÑÉ ÓäÉ¡ æÐáß áÇä ÃáãåÇ íÈÞì Ýí ÇáÌÓÏ ÓäÉ.

http://yasoob.org/books/htm1/m012/09/no0995.html

Comments (on the sanad of course)?

^ This has already been answered by Jondab but I don't know whose classification you would be using, so might be worth another analysis.

There's one question pertaining to fiqh in the other thread that I put up, which I have obviously let remain there.

Thank you.

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Salaamun `alaikum

wa `alaykum as-salaam,

Let me start with the easiest one:

Adding to the above is the following Hadith on the creation of the pig and the cat. They are the result of the sneezing of the elephant and the lion, respectively?!

(ÈÇÈ 248 - ÚáÉ ÎáÞ ÇáåÑ æÇáÎäÒíÑ) 1 - ÃÎÈÑäÇ ÃÈæ ÚÈÏ Çááå ãÍãÏ Èä ÔÇÐÇä Èä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÚËãÇä ÇáÈÑÇæÐí¡ ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈæ Úáí ãÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÍÇÑË Èä ÓÝíÇä ÇáÍÇÝÙ ÇáÓãÑÞäÏí ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÕÇáÍ Èä ÓÚíÏ ÇáÊÑãÐí Úä ÚÈÏ ÇáãäÚã Èä ÇÏÑíÓ Úä ÃÈíå Úä æåÈ Èä ãäÈå ÇáíãÇäí ÞÇá: áãÇ ÑßÈ äæÍ (Ú) ÇáÓÝíäÉ ÇáÞì Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÇáÓßíäÉ Úáì ãÇ ÝíåÇ ãä ÇáÏæÇÈ æÇáØíÑ æÇáæÍÔ Ýáã íßä ÔÆ ãäåÇ íÖÑ ÔíÆÇ ßÇäÊ ÇáÔÇÉ ÊÍÊß ÈÇáÐÆÈ¡ æÇáÈÞÑÉ ÊÍÊ ÈÇáÇÓÏ¡ æÇáÚÕÝæÑ íÞÚ Úáì ÇáÍíÉ ÝáÇ íÖÑ ÔÆ ÔíÆÇ¡ æáÇ íåíÌå æáã íßä ÝíåÇ ÖÌÑ æáÇ ÕÎÈ æáÇ ÓÈ æáÇ áÚä ÞÏ ÇåãÊåã ÃäÝÓåã æÃÐåÈ Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÍãÉ ßá Ðí ÍãÉ Ýáã íÒÇáæÇ ßÐáß Ýí ÇáÓÝíäÉ ÍÊì ÎÑÌæÇ ãäåÇ æßÇä ÇáÝÃÑ ÞÏ ßËÑ Ýíå ÇáÓÝíäÉ æÇáÚÐÑÉ ÝÃæÍì Çááå ÊÚÇáì Åáì äæÍ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã Ãä íãÓÍ ÇáÇÓÏ ÝÚØÓ ÝÎÑÌ ãä ãäÎÑíå åÑÇä ÐßÑ æÇäËì ÝÎÝÝ ÇáÝÃÑ æãÓÍ æÌå ÇáÝíá ÝÚØÓ ÝÎÑÌ ãä ãäÎÑíä ÎäÒíÑÇä ÐßÑ æÇäËì ÝÎÝÝ ÇáÚÐÑÉ

Simple, that's not a hadith, at least, it's not written as such in the above. Rather it's a report from Wahb b. Munabbih (not reporting from an Imam) who is telling a story about Nuh (as), and the creation of two cats and two pigs from the sneezing of lion and elephant. Regarding Wahb there's actually a wiki article on him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahb_bin_Munabbih

So apparently he was a taabi`i (I know of no indication that he was Shi`i) who is well known for having recorded a number of Isra'iliyyat (such as the above I imagine). For those who don't know, the Isra'iliyyat is a term used to refer to the various Jewish and Christian stories that were in circulation which Muslims eventually got to recording in their books in order to try to explain the stories of former prophets and such. Wahb and Ka`b b. al-Ahbar are both famous for their associations with this.

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And also the dog, which was created from the saliva of the Satan to guard Adam and Hawwa (`alaihima al salaam)?!

(ÈÇÈ 250 - ÚáÉ ÎáÞ ÇáßáÈ) 1 - ÍÏËäÇ ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚíÓì ÇáÚáæí ÇáÍÓíäí ÑÖí Çááå Úäå ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ãÍãÏ Èä ÇÈÑÇåíã Èä ÇÓÈÇØ ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ ÇáÞØÇä ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈæ ÇáØíÈ ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå ÞÇá ÍÏËäí ÚíÓì Èä ÌÚÝÑ ÇáÚáæí ÇáÚãÑí Úä ÂÈÇÆå Úä ÚãÑ Èä Úáí Úä ÃÈíå Úáí Èä ÃÈí ØÇáÈ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã: Çä ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ÓÆá ããÇ ÎáÞ Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÇáßáÈ¡ ÞÇá: ÎáÞå ãä ÈÒÇÞ ÇÈáíÓ¡ Þíá: æßíÝ ÐÇß íÇ ÑÓæá Çááå¿ ÞÇá: áãÇ ÃåÈØ Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÂÏã æÍæÇÁ Åáì ÇáÇÑÖ ÃåÈØåãÇ ßÇáÝÑÎíä ÇáãÑÊÚÔíä¡ ÝÚÏÇ ÇÈáíÓ ÇáãáÚæä Åáì ÇáÓÈÇÚ æßÇäæÇ ÞÈá ÂÏã Ýí ÇáÇÑÖ ÝÞÇá áåã: Çä ØíÑíä ÞÏ æÞÚÇ ãä ÇáÓãÇÁ áã íÑ ÇáÑÇÄä ÇÚÙã ãäåãÇ¡ ÊÚÇáæÇ ÝßáæåãÇ ÝÊÚÇÏÊ ÇáÓÈÇÚ ãÚå æÌÚá ÇÈáíÓ íÍËåã æíÕíÍ æíÚÏåã ÈÞÑÈ ÇáãÓÇÝÉ ÝæÞÚ ãä Ýíå ãä ÚÌáÉ ßáÇãå ÈÒÇÞ ÝÎáÞ Çááå ÊÚÇáì ãä Ðáß ÇáÈÒÇÞ ßáÈíä ÃÍÏåãÇ ÐßÑ æÇáÂÎÑ ÇäËì ÝÞÇãÇ Íæá ÂÏã æÍæÇÁ¡ ÇáßáÈÉ ÈÌÏÉ¡ æÇáßáÈ ÈÇáåäÏ Ýáã íÊÑßæÇ ÇáÓÈÇÚ Çä íÞÑÈæåãÇ¡ æãä Ðáß Çáíæã ÇáßáÈ ÚÏæ ÇáÓÈÚ¡ æÇáÓÈÚ ÚÏæ ÇáßáÈ

Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Muhammad b. `Isa al-`Alawi al-Husayni I can find no reference for, though evidently Shaykh Saduq thought highly of him (going his saying ÑÖí Çááå Úäå after his name).

Muhammad b. Ibrahim b. Asbat, likewise I'm coming up with nothing (I'm not even seeing an entry in Sayyid al-Khoe'i Mu`jam...)

Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Ziyad I do find some entries for, but I'm unsure that any of these are al-Qattan (it doesn't look like it.)

Abu Tayyib Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Abdullah, nothing.

And finally `Isa b. Ja`far al-`Alawi al-`Umari, nothing, though I’d think his titles and the way the narrations chain is written, it’s saying he was a descendent of `Umar b. `Ali b. Abu Talib. I do note though that Shaykh Saduq has ÑÖì Çááå Úäå written after his name in another narration with this same chain in `Ilal ash-Shara`I (there appears to be seven of these in the book). There is an Ahmad b. `Isa b. Ja`far al-`Alawi al-`Umari mentioned, who was a companion of al-`Ayyashi and considered thiqqa, but I don’t know if this is this narrator’s son or what.

So from what I’ve seen here, it looks like this sanad is majhool.

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Here is some stuff I found:

Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Ziyad:

583- ÃÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ Èä ÌÚÝÑ ÇáåãÏÇäí:

ÃÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ. ÃÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ ÇáåãÏÇäí. ãä ãÔÇíÎ ÇáÕÏæÞ- ÞÏÓ ÓÑå- Ñæì Úä Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã¡ æ Ñæì Úäå ÇáÕÏæÞ¡ æ ÊÑÖì Úáíå Ýí ÇáãÔíÎÉ Ýí ÚÏÉ ãæÇÑÏ¡ Ýí ØÑíÞå Åáì ÃÈí ÒßÑíÇ ÇáÃÚæÑ¡ æ Åáì ÅÈÑÇåíã Èä ãÍãÏ ÇáåãÏÇäí¡ æ Åáì ÈáÇá ÇáãÄÐä¡ æ Åáì ÍãÏÇä ÇáÏíæÇäí¡ æ Åáì ÒßÑíÇ Èä ÂÏã¡ æ Åáì Óåá Èä ÇáíÓÚ¡ æ Åáì Úáí Èä ãØÑ¡ æ Åáì ãÍãÏ Èä ÚãÑæ Èä ÃÈí ÇáãÞÏÇã¡ æ Åáì ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáæáíÏ ÇáßÑãÇäí¡ æ Åáì ãÚãÑ Èä ÎáÇÏ. æ Ñæì Úäå Ýí ØÑíÞå Åáì «ÚíÓì Èä íæäÓ»¡ ßÐÇ Ýí ÇáØÈÚÉ ÇáÞÏíãÉ¡ æ åæ ÇáÕÍíÍ. ÅáÇ Ãä Ýí ÇáØÈÚÉ ÇáÍÏíËÉ: «ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ» æ åæ ãä ÛáØ ÇáãØÈÚÉ. æ ÞÇá ÇáÕÏæÞ: «æ ßÇä ÑÌáÇ¡ ËÞÉ¡ ÏíäÇ¡ ÝÇÖáÇ¡ ÑÍãÉ Çááå Úáíå æ ÑÖæÇäå». ÓãÚ ãäå ÈåãÏÇä¡ ÚäÏ ãäÕÑÝå ãä ÍÌ ÈíÊ Çááå ÇáÍÑÇã. ßãÇá ÇáÏíä: ÈÇÈ ãÇ Ñæí Úä ÃÈí ÇáÍÓä ãæÓì Èä ÌÚÝÑ Ú Ýí ÇáäÕ Úáì ÇáÞÇÆã Ú 34¡ Ðíá ÇáÍÏíË ÇáÃÎíÑ. æ ßäÇå ÈÃÈí Úáí. ÇáÃãÇáí: ÇáãÌáÓ 70¡ ÇáÍÏíË 10. æ Ñæì Úäå ÃÍãÏ Èä ÚÈÏæä. ÝåÑÓÊ ÇáÔíÎ (5) ÊÑÌãÉ: ÅÈÑÇåíã Èä ÑÌÇÁ ÇáÌÍÏÑí.

692- ÃÍãÏ Èä Úáí Èä ÒíÇÏ:

ÃÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ. ÃÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ ÇáåãÏÇäí. ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ. ãä ãÔÇíÎ ÇáÕÏæÞ. Ñæì Úä Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã. ÐßÑå Ýí ÇáãÔíÎÉ: Ýí ØÑíÞå Åáì ÅÏÑíÓ Èä ÒíÏ. ßÐÇ Ýí åÐå ÇáØÈÚÉ¡ æ áßä Ýí äÓÎÉ ÇáæÓÇÆá¡ æ ÇáãÓÊÏÑß: «ÃÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ» ÈÏá «ÃÍãÏ Èä Úáí Èä ÒíÇÏ»¡ æ åæ ÇáÕÍíÍ¡ ßãÇ

ãÚÌã ÑÌÇá ÇáÍÏíË¡ Ìþ2¡ Õ: 179

ÊÞÏã.

868- ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ:

Ñæì Úä Úáí Èä ÇáÍÓíä Ú. æ Ñæì Úäå ãÍãÏ Èä ÃÈí ÚãíÑ. ÐßÑå ÇáßÔí¡ Ýí ÊÑÌãÉ: ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÚÈÇÓ Èä Úáí¡ Úáì ãÇ Ýí äÓÎÉ Çáãæáì ÇáÞåÈÇÆí¡ æ ÓíÌíþÁ.

869- ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ:

ÃÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ. ÃÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ Èä ÌÚÝÑ ÇáåãÏÇäí. ÇÈä ÌÚÝÑ ÇáåãÏÇäí: ãä ãÔÇíÎ ÇáÕÏæÞ¡ ÐßÑå ãÊÑÖíÇ Úáíå¡ Ýí ÇáãÔíÎÉ¡ Ýí ØÑíÞå Åáì: ÚíÓì Èä íæäÓ. ÃÞæá: ßÐÇ Ýí ÈÚÖ ÇáäÓΡ æ Ýí ÈÚÖåÇ ÇáÂÎÑ: ÃÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ¡ æ Úáì ÊÞÏíÑ ÕÍÉ ÇáÃæáì ÝÇáÙÇåÑ Ãäå åæ: ÃÍãÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ Èä ÌÚÝÑ ÇáåãÏÇäí ÇáãÊÞÏã.

But again, it's weird, not sure if its referring to the man in the hadith.

As for asbat etc. I couldn't find them either.

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/\ Yeah, I saw those as well, but I have doubts that any of them are referring to the right one. None of them refer to him as being al-Qattan. In terms of the one(s) that is said to be of the mashayakh of Shaykh Saduq, why then would he have two intermediary links between them if that was the one? And as to the one that narrated from Imam `Ali b. al-Husayn, that would seem to place him too early for it to be this one judging by his position in the chain in relation to Saduq, though since it says Muhammad b. Abi `Umayr narrated from him, I'd guess that one did live a long life considering that Muhammad b. Abi `Umayr was contemporaneous with Imams al-Kadhim (as), ar-Ridha (as), and al-Jawad (as), though he is known to have narrated mursal narrations (though his mursal narrations are considered (by some at least) to be somewhat of a special case, i.e. this does not render them dha`if according to this thought, he was that thiqqa). Still, I doubt it's him, and overall it looks like this chain (which in all seven narrations I found in `Ilal looks to be exactly like this, if I read it right) is a unique one composed of unknown (to us) narrators.

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Brother Massiac is this tradition authentic

80 - ÔÇ : Ñæì ÃÈæÈÕíÑ ( ÞÇá : ) ÞÇá ÃÈæÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã : ÅÐÇ ÞÇã ÇáÞÇÆã åÏã ÇáãÓÌÏ ÇáÍÑÇã ÍÊì íÑÏå Åáì ÃÓÇÓå æÍæá ÇáãÞÇã Åáì ÇáãæÖÚ ÇáÐí ßÇä Ýíå ¡ æÞØÚ ÃíÏí Èäí ÔíÈÉ ¡ æÚáÞåÇ Úáì ÈÇÈ ÇáßÚÈÉ ¡ æßÊÈ ÚáíåÇ : åÄáÇÁ ÓÑÇÞ ÇáßÚÈÉ

Bihar vol 52 pg 338 narration no 80 taken from this version:

http://al-shia.org/html/ara/books/lib-hadi...ar52/index.html

Brothers here too?:D

Brother Massiac have u heard of narrator Qais ibne Hafs?

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A person approached Imam Hussain (a.s.) requesting him ‘Enumerate for me those virtues that Allah (the Glorified) has specifically bestowed on you.’ Imam (a.s.) cautioned, ‘You shall find it difficult to digest our virtues’.

However that man did not desist and Imam (a.s.) yielded to his demands

by narrating only one tradition. Imam had not yet finished with his narration, that the man’s condition metamorphosed radically and his hair and beard turned completely white. Immediately, he was made to forget that tradition. Later Imam (a.s.) said,

“It was only with Allah’s mercy that my narration was erased from his memory.’ (Al Kharaaej vol 6 page 795, Behaar al Anwaar vol 25 page 379 Had. 27, Isbaat al-Hudaat, vol. 5 page 195 Had. 35)

good morning brother we are having a discussion in another thread we need your assistance on.... can you verify and tell us the authenticity of this hadeeth? it is being said by Jonab (whom i have little faith in sorry) that this is daif... i dont believe it however, can you verify this? all three chains please? sorry i am lacking the isnad.....

this one also please......

Imam Sadiq (a.s.) narrates “Some men approached Imam Hussain (a.s.) beseeching ‘O Aba Abdillah! Enlighten us with your virtues through which Allah has made you eminent’ Imam (a.s.) warned,

‘You will not be able to understand these merits nor do you have the capacity to digest them.’

However they persisted in their demands till Imam (a.s.) relented and said

‘Okay, if you consider yourselves capable of comprehending our position, then one of you may stay with me while the other two may stand at a distance. I will relate our virtues to the one with me. If he is indeed able to grasp it, I will willingly repeat it before the others.’

In accordance with Imam (a.s.)’s request, two persons distanced themselves while one of them remained with Imam (a.s.). Imam (a.s.) then began enumerating the superiority of the Ahle Bayt (a.s.), so much so that that man was stupefied. His countenance changed dramatically, turning pale, shock and disbelief written all over it. Later when his companions inquired from him, he, in his bewilderment, could evoke no response. (Al Kharaaej wa al-Jaraeh, vol 2 page 795 by Qutbuddin Raawandi, Muntakhab al- Basaaer, p. 108 by Saffar and Isbaat al-Hudaat, vol 5 p 194, hadith 34 by Shaykh Hurr Aamili )

and without reference or isnad can you also fine this one please and authenticate it for me?????

you are a wonderful brother and may Allah bless you and your family in this life and in the hereafter inshaAllah amin.....

Imam Sajjad (a.s.) has claimed

“I am afraid that if I reveal (to you) the treasures of my knowledge, you may declare my murder to be admissible.” This is precisely why Imam (a.s.) has declared “Short ofGodhood, you may attribute us with anything.

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Brother Massiac have u heard of narrator Qais ibne Hafs?

I hadn't, and he does not appear to be a narrator in our books of rijal. However, a little searching found that he's a narrator in the Sunni books (such as Bukhari) and that they consider him to be thiqqa. This doesn't mean anything to us though in terms of whether he was or not.

ÞíÓ ÇÈä ÍÝÕ ÇáÊãíãí ÇáÏÇÑãí ÃÈæ ãÍãÏ ÇáÈÕÑí ËÞÉ áå ÃÝÑÇÏ ãä ÇáÚÇÔÑÉ ãÇÊ ÓäÉ ÓÈÚ æÚÔÑíä Î ÕÏ

from http://www.al-eman.com/Islamlib/viewchp.as...=402&CID=28 (a Sunni work of rijal)

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Brother Massiac is this tradition authentic

80 - ÔÇ : Ñæì ÃÈæÈÕíÑ ( ÞÇá : ) ÞÇá ÃÈæÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã : ÅÐÇ ÞÇã ÇáÞÇÆã åÏã ÇáãÓÌÏ ÇáÍÑÇã ÍÊì íÑÏå Åáì ÃÓÇÓå æÍæá ÇáãÞÇã Åáì ÇáãæÖÚ ÇáÐí ßÇä Ýíå ¡ æÞØÚ ÃíÏí Èäí ÔíÈÉ ¡ æÚáÞåÇ Úáì ÈÇÈ ÇáßÚÈÉ ¡ æßÊÈ ÚáíåÇ : åÄáÇÁ ÓÑÇÞ ÇáßÚÈÉ

Bihar vol 52 pg 338 narration no 80 taken from this version:

http://al-shia.org/html/ara/books/lib-hadi...ar52/index.html

Took some digging on this one, but here's what I found. Majlisi quoted the narration from Shaykh Mufid's Kitab al-Irshad, where like the above it simply says it is narrated by Abu Basir. This wasn't enough info though, as there are a number of different narrators with the kunya of Abu Basir, and the link between him and Shaykh Mufid (obviously much later than someone who could be narrating from Imam Sadiq (as)) was not laid out.

However, the same narration with somewhat different wording is also found in Shaykh Tusi's al-Ghayba like so:

492 - Úäå¡ Úä ÚÈÏ ÇáÑÍãÇä¡ Úä ÇÈä ÃÈí ÍãÒÉ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÈÕíÑ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ÞÇá: ÇáÞÇÆã íåÏã ÇáãÓÌÏ ÇáÍÑÇã ÍÊì íÑÏå Åáì ÃÓÇÓå¡ æãÓÌÏ ÇáÑÓæá Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå Åáì ÃÓÇÓå¡ æíÑÏ ÇáÈíÊ Åáì ãæÖÚå¡ æÃÞÇãå Úáì ÃÓÇÓå¡ æÞØÚ ÃíÏí Èäí ÔíÈÉ ÇáÓÑÇÞ æÚáÞåÇ Úáì ÇáßÚÈÉ

From him from `Abdur-Rahman from Ibn Abi Hamza from Abu Basir from Abu `Abdillah (as). He said: The Qa’im will tear down the Masjid al-Haram until he restores it to its foundations, and the Masjid of the Messenger (Allah bless him and his family) to its foundations, and restore the House to its place and establish it upon its foundations. And he will cut off the hands the Bani Shayba, the thieves, and hang them upon the Ka`ba.

The `anhu in the above looks to be Fadhl b. Shadhan. In fact, this and the other narrations here appear to be taken from a book that Fadhl wrote on this subject. As to Fadhl himself, he was contemporaneous with a number of the later Imams, was himself a scholar, and is highly respected by us. `Allama writes:

(ÇáÝÖá) Èä ÔÇÐÇä ÈÇáÔíä ÇáãÚÌãÉ æÇáÐÇá ÇáãÚÌãÉ æÇáäæä ÇÈä ÇáÎáíá ÈÇáÎÇÁ ÇáãÚÌãÉ ÃÈæãÍãÏ ÇáÇÒÏì ÇáäíÓÇÈæÑí ßÇä ÃÈæå ãä ÃÕÍÇÈ íæäÓ¡ æÑæì Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ ÇáËÇäí Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã.

æÞíá: Úä ÇáÑÖÇ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ÃíÖÇ " æßÇä ËÞÉ ÌáíáÇ ÝÞíåÇ " ãÊßáãÇ " áå ÚÙã ÔÃä Ýí åÐå ÇáØÇÆÝÉ.

Þíá: Çäå ÕäÝ ãÇÆÉ æËãÇäíä ßÊÇÈÇ " æÊÑÍã Úáíå ÃÈæãÍãÏ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ãÑÊíä¡ æÑæì ËáÇËÇ " æáÇÁ.

æäÞá ÇáßÔí Úä ÇáÇÆãÉ Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã ãÏÍå¡ Ëã ÐßÑ ãÇ íäÇÝíå¡ æÞÏ ÃÌÈäÇ Úäå Ýí ßÊÇÈäÇ ÇáßÈíÑ.

æåÐÇÇáÔíÎ ÃÌá ãä Ãä íÛãÒ Úáíå¡ ÝÇäå ÑÆíÓ ØÇÆÝÊäÇ¡ ÑÖí Çááå Úäå

Fadhl b. Shadhan, Abu Muhammad al-Azadi an-Naysaburi. His father was from the companions of Yunus. He narrated from Abu Ja`far the Second (as), and it is said from ar-Rida (as) also. He was thiqa, venerable, a faqih, a mutakallim. He is of great importance in this denomination. It said he wrote one hundred and eighty book. Abu Muhammad (as) (asked Allah for) mercy upon him twice, and it is narrated thrice in friendship. Al-Kashshi related his praise from the Imams (as), then he mentioned what contravened it. We have responded to this in our large book. This Shaykh is more venerable than that he should be disparaged, for he is a head of our denomination. May Allah be pleased with him.

As to `Abdur-Rahman, looking at other narrations this apprears to be `Abdur-Rahman b. Abi Hashim, who in turn appears to be `Abdur-Rahmad b. Muhammad b. Abi Hashim. Regarding him, `Allama writes:

(ÚÈÏÇáÑÍãÇä) Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÃÈí åÇÔã Èä ÃÈí åÇÔã ÇáÈÌáí ÃÈæãÍãÏ Ìáíá ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ ËÞÉ ËÞÉ.

`Abdur-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Abi Hashim b. Abi Hashim al-Bajli, Abu Muhammad, venerable amongst our companions, thiqa thiqa.

Next is Ibn Abi Hamza, who would appear to be `Ali b. Abi Hamza. Here we find someone very different from the narrators above... `Allama writes:

(Úáí) Èä ÇÈí ÍãÒÉ æÇÓã ÇÈí ÍãÒÉ ÓÇáã ÇáÈØÇíäì ÇÈæÇáÍÓä ãæáì ÇáÇäÕÇÑ ßæÝí æßÇä ÞÇíÏ ÃÈí ÈÕíÑ íÍíì Èä ÇáÞÇÓã æáå ÇÎ íÓãì ÌÚÝÑ Èä ÇÈí ÍãÒÉ Ñæì Úä ÇÈí ÇáÍÓä ãæÓì Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã æÚä ÇÈí ÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã æåæ ÇÍÏ ÚãÏ ÇáæÇÞÝÉ ÞÇá ÇáÔíÎ ÇáØæÓí ÑÍãå Çááå Ýí ÚÏÉ ãæÇÖÚ Çäå æÇÞÝì¡ æÞÇá ÃÈæÇáÍÓä Úáì Èä ÇáÍÓä ÇÈä ÝÖÇá Úáì Èä ÇÈí ÍãÒÉ ßÐÇÈ æÇÞÝì ãÊåã ãáÚæä æÞÏ ÑæíÊ Úäå ÇÍÇÏíË ßËíÑ æßÊÈÊ Úäå ÊÝÓíÑ ÇáÞÑÂä ßáå ãä Çæáå Åáì ÇÎÑå Åáì Çäì áÇÇÓÊÍá Çä ÇÑæì Úäå ÍÏíËÇ æÇÍÏÇ " æÞÇá ÇÈä ÇáÛÖÇíÑí Úáì Èä ÇÈí ÍãÒÉ áÚäå Çááå ÇÕá ÇáæÞÝ æÇÔÏ ÇáÎáÞ ÚÏÇæÉ ááæÇáì ãä ÈÚÏ ÇÈí ÇÈÑÇåíã Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã.

`Ali b. Abi Hamza, and Abi Hamza's name was Salim, al-Bata'ini, Abu 'l-Hasan, client of the Ansar, Kufan. We was tied (?) with Abu Basir Yahya b. al-Qasim, and had a brother named Ja`far b. Abi Hamza. He narrated from Abu 'l-Hasan Musa (as) and from Abu `Abdillah (as). He was one of the pillars of Waqifis. Shaykh Tusi (may Allah have mercy on him) said in a number of places that he was a Waqifi. Abu 'l-Hasan `Ali b. al-Hasan b. Faddal said: `Ali b. Abi Hamza (was a) lier, a Waqifi, accused, accursed, and many hadiths have been narrated from him, and a tafsir of the Quran from its beginning to its end written from him except that I do not regard it lawful to narrate a single hadith from him. And Ibn al-Ghada’iri said: `Ali b. Abi Hamza, may Allah curse him, a root of the Waqf, and the strongest in enmity of the people to the Wali after Abu Ibrahim (as).

(If you’re not familiar with the Waqifis, this was an extinct sect that broke off from the Imamis after the death of Imam Musa al-Kadhim (as), claiming that he had not died but was in ghayba, rejected the Imamate of his son (as), and that he was the expected Qa’im.)

So from the above, it would then appear that the Abu Basir that is being referred to in this chain is Yahya b. al-Qasim. Regarding him, `Allama has this:

íÍíì Èä ÇáÞÇÓã ÇáÍÐÇÁ ÈÇáÍÇÁ ÇáãåãáÉ ãä ÃÕÍÇÈ ÇáßÇÙã Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã æßÇä íßäì ÃÈÇ ÈÕíÑ ÈÇáÈÇÁ ÇáãäÞÙÉ ÊÍÊåÇ äÞØÉ æÇáíÇÁ ÈÚÏ ÇáÕÇÏ æÞíá Çäå ÃÈæãÍãÏ ÇÎÊáÝ Þæá ÚáãÇÆäÇ Ýíå ÞÇá ÇáÔíÎ ÇáØæÓí ÑÍãå Çááå Çäå æÇÞÝí æÑæì ÇáßÔí ãÇ íÊÖãä Ðáß ÞÇá æÃÈæÈÕíÑ íÍíì Èä ÇáÞÇÓã ÇáÍÐÇÁ ÇáÇÒÏí åÐÇ íßäì ÃÈÇ ãÍãÏ ÞÇá ãÍãÏ Èä ãÓÚæÏ ÓÃáÊ Úá Èä ÇáÍÓä Èä ÝÖÇá Úä ÃÈì ÈÕíÑ åÐÇ åá ßÇä ãÊåãÇ ÈÇáÛáæ ÝÞÇá ÃãÇ ÈÇáÛáæ ÝáÇ æáßä ßÇä ãÎÊáØÇ æÞÇá ÇáäÌÇÔí íÍíì Èä ÇáÞÇÓã ÃÈæÈÕíÑ ÇáÇÓÏì æÞíá ÃÈæãÍãÏ ËÞÉ æÌíå Ñæì Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ æÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã æÞíá íÍíì Èä ÃÈí ÇáÞÇÓã ÇÓÍÇÞ æÑæì Úä ÃÈí ÇáÍÓä ãæÓì Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã æãÇÊ ÇÈæÈÕíÑ ÓäÉ ÎãÓíä æãÇÆÉ æÞÇá Úáí Èä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÇáÚÞíÞì íÍíì Èä ÇáÞÇÓã ÇáÇÓÏì ãæáÇåã æáÏ ãßÝæÝÇ ÑÃì ÇáÏäíÇ ãÑÊíä ãÓÍ ÃÈæÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã Úáì Úíäíå æÞÇá ÇäÙÑ ãÇÊÑì ÞÇá ÃÑì ßæÉ Ýí ÇáÈíÊ æÞÏ ÃÑÇäíåÇ ÃÈæß ãä ÞÈáß æÇáÐí ÃÑÇå ÇáÚãá ÈÑæÇíÊå æÇä ßÇä ãÐåÈå ÝÇÓÏÇ ".

Yahya b. al-Qasim, the shoe-maker, from the companions of al-Kadhim (as). His kunya was Abu Basir, and it is said he was Abu Muhammad. Our `ulama have differed on their opinion of him. Shaykh Tusi (may Allah have mercy on him) said that he was a Waqifi. al-Kashshi narrated what implies that. He said: And Abu Basir Yahya b. al-Qasim the shoe-maker al-Azadi. This one has the kunya of Abu Muhammad. Muhammad b. Mas`ud said: I asked `Ali b al-Hasan b. Faddal this about Abu Basir: Was he accused of ghulw? So he said: As to ghulw, then no, however he was mukhtalit (mixed, confused, indiscriminate). An-Najashi said: Yahya b. al-Qasim Abu Basir al-Asadi, and it is said Abu Muhammad, thiqa, notable. He narrated from Abu Ja`far and Abu `Abdillah (as). It is said (he was) Yahya b. Abi ‘l-Qasim Ishaq. And he narrated from Abu ‘l-Hasan Musa (as). Abu Basir died in the year one hundred and fifty. `Ali b. Ahmad b. al-`Aqiqi said: Yahya b. al-Qasim al-Asadi, their client. He was born blind, and saw the world twice. Abu `Abdillah (as) wiped upon his eyes and said: Look at what you see. He said: I see an aperture in the house, and your father made me see it before you. That which I regard is acting upon his riwaya, even if his madhhab was corrupt.

Edited by macisaac
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Well what about Ali ibne Abi Hamza. What is the opinion of scholars over him? I have seen many people have done Jarah over him but still he is notable narrator with many traditions narrated via him and same goes Saad ibne Dhareef?

Replying in this thread to keep these together. For `Ali b. Abi Hamza, see above. As to Sa`d b. Tarif (Sa`d b. Zharif ash-Sha`ir appears to be same person):

1 - (ÓÚÏ) Èä ØÑíÝ ÈÇáØÇÁ ÇáãåãáÉ ÇáÍäÙáí ÇáÇÓßÇÝ ãæáì Èäí Êãíã ÇáßæÝí æíÞÇá ÓÚÏ ÇáÎÝÇÝ Ñæì Úä ÇáÇÕÛ Èä äÈÇÊÉ ÞÇá ÇáÔíÎ æåæ ÕÍíÍ æÞÇá ÇáßÔí Úä ÍãÏæíå Çä ÓÚÏ ÇáÇÓßÇÝ æÓÚÏ Èä ØÑíÝ æÇÍÏ æßÇä äÇææÓíÇ æÞÝ Úáì ÇÈí ÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã æÞÇá ÇáäÌÇÔí Çäå íÚÑÝ æíäßÑ Ñæì Úä ÇáÇÕäÛ æÑæì Úä ÇáÈÇÞÑ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã æÇáÕÇÏÞ (Ú) æßÇä ÞÇÖíÇ æÞÇá ÇÈä ÇáÛÖÇíÑí Çäå ÖÚíÝ.

Sa`d b. Tarif, al-Handhali al-Iskaf (the shoe maker), client of the Bani Tamim, and it is said Sa`d al-Khaffaf. He narrated from al-Asbagh b. Nabatah. Ash-Shaykh (Tusi) said: And he is sahih. Al-Kashshi said from Hamdawayh that Sa`d al-Iskaf and Sa`d b. Tarif are one (i.e. the same person). He did waqf upon Abu `Abdillah (as) (i.e. he did not believe in the Imams after him). And-Najashi said that he was known and denied (yu`raf wa yunkar), narrated from al-Asbagh and narrated from al-Baqir (as) and as-Sadiq (as), and he was a qadhi. Ibn al-Ghada'iri said that he was dha`if.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Salaam Brother macisaac.

Akhi can u help me to answer this allegation that is made against us by Sunnis.

Úä ÌÚÝÑ Èä ãÍãÏ Ú ÞÇá ßÇä ÑÓæá Çááå Õ áÇ íäÇã ÍÊì íÖÚ æÌåå ÇáßÑíã Èíä ËÏíí ÝÇØãÉ Úþ

"From Jafar ibn Muhammad (a.s): "Prophet , sallalahu alayhi wa salam, didn't sleep until he put his honourable face between breasts of Fatima (a.s)".

http://dhr12.com/images/w_b/1-25-1.jpg

http://dhr12.com/images/w_b/1-25-2.jpg

This I have copied from an Anti Shia forum and I hope that u would answer it.

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æÚä ÍÐíÝÉ ÞÇá : ßÇä ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÇáå áÇ íäÇã ÍÊì íÞÈá ÚÑÖ æÌäÉ ÝÇØãÉ

ÚáíåÇ ÇáÓáÇã Ãæ ÈíÊ ËÏííåÇ .

æÚä ÌÚÝÑ Èä ãÍãÏ ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã ÞÇá ßÇä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÇáå áÇ íäÇã ÍÊì íÖÚ æÌåå

ÇáßÑíã Èíä ËÏíí ÝÇØãÉ ÚáíåÇ ÇáÓáÇã

^I think it's mursal. Allahu Alam.

w/s

Edited by Jondab_Azdi
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(salam) Brother...

This is a wonderful thread.

Thank you for starting it and thank you for helping us find our answers.

At this point, I am wondering about a few hadiths.

They are:

Imam Sadiq [pbuh], the sixth infallible Imam, has said:

"Perhaps you think God has not created a humanity other than you. No! I swear to God that He has created thousands upon thousands of mankinds and you are the last among them."

"Like this world there are 70,000 other planets with each of their peoples believing they are alone in the universe."

"I cannot say that there are human beings in other worlds, but I can say that there are living beings, whom we cannot see because of the great distance between us."

-Bihar al Anwar, vol 14, p 79

Imam Sadeq [pbuh] has said:

"The angels could not know what they said (Wilt Thou place in it such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood), if they had not (earlier) seen someone who had made mischief in it and shed blood."

At-Tafsir, al-Ayyashi

and

O Commander of the Faithful! Let me know about the name of the first tree planted on the Earth.”

The Imam (s) replied, “It was called ‘Al-Osaje. The cane of Moses (s) was also made of the same tree.”

The man asked about the first plant that grew on the Earth?” The Imam (s) said, “It was pumpkin that is a gourd.”

The man asked, “Who was the first of the people of the heavens and the Earth who performed the Hajj pilgrimage?”

The Imam (s) said, “It was Gabriel.”

The man asked about the first part of the Earth that was leveled during the flood?”

The Imam (s) said, “It was the location of the Kaaba that was fresh chrysolite green in color.”

The man asked about the noblest valley on the Earth.

The Imam (s) said, “It is a valley called “Sarandib” where Adam descended to from Paradise.”

The man asked about the worst valley on the Earth.

The Imam (s) said, “It is a valley in Yemen called “Barahut” and it is one of the valleys of Hell.”

The man asked about the prison which carried its own prisoner.

The Imam (s) said, “It was the fish which carried Yunus ibn Matta (Jonah) with it.”

The man asked about the six creatures which were not born from the womb.

The Imam (s) answered, “Adam, Eve, the sheep of Abraham, the cane of Moses, the she-camel of Salih,

and the bat which Jesus (s) - the son of (the Blessed Lady) Mary (s) - made and it flew with the permission

of the Honorable the Exalted God.”

Ref :Uyun Akhbar Al Reza

Thank you once again.

I know answering all of our questions is not an easy task.

God Bless

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Imam Sadiq [pbuh], the sixth infallible Imam, has said:

"Perhaps you think God has not created a humanity other than you. No! I swear to God that He has created thousands upon thousands of mankinds and you are the last among them."

"Like this world there are 70,000 other planets with each of their peoples believing they are alone in the universe."

"I cannot say that there are human beings in other worlds, but I can say that there are living beings, whom we cannot see because of the great distance between us."

-Bihar al Anwar, vol 14, p 79

I couldn't find these narrations at the given reference.

w/s

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O Commander of the Faithful! Let me know about the name of the first tree planted on the Earth.”

The Imam (s) replied, “It was called ‘Al-Osaje. The cane of Moses (s) was also made of the same tree.”

The man asked about the first plant that grew on the Earth?” The Imam (s) said, “It was pumpkin that is a gourd.”

The man asked, “Who was the first of the people of the heavens and the Earth who performed the Hajj pilgrimage?”

The Imam (s) said, “It was Gabriel.”

The man asked about the first part of the Earth that was leveled during the flood?”

The Imam (s) said, “It was the location of the Kaaba that was fresh chrysolite green in color.”

The man asked about the noblest valley on the Earth.

The Imam (s) said, “It is a valley called “Sarandib” where Adam descended to from Paradise.”

The man asked about the worst valley on the Earth.

The Imam (s) said, “It is a valley in Yemen called “Barahut” and it is one of the valleys of Hell.”

The man asked about the prison which carried its own prisoner.

The Imam (s) said, “It was the fish which carried Yunus ibn Matta (Jonah) with it.”

The man asked about the six creatures which were not born from the womb.

The Imam (s) answered, “Adam, Eve, the sheep of Abraham, the cane of Moses, the she-camel of Salih,

and the bat which Jesus (s) - the son of (the Blessed Lady) Mary (s) - made and it flew with the permission

of the Honorable the Exalted God.”

Ref :Uyun Akhbar Al Reza

That's from this narration:

http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/l...a_1/29.htm

However as to it's narrators, it's looking like the sanad would be graded as majhool, I can't seem to find anything for instance about ÃÈæ ÚÈÏ Çááå ãÍãÏ Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÌÈáÉ ÇáæÇÚÙ . Some of the contents are difficult to reconcile as well, such as:

The man asked, “What is the width and length of the sun and the moon?” The Imam (s) said, “It is nine-hundred farsakhs in (by?) nine-hundred farsakhs”

The man asked, “What is the width and length of the stars?” The Imam (s) said, “Twelve farsakhs in (by?) twelve farsakhs.”

which seems to be making the sun and the moon the same size for one... and that the stars are much smaller than the moon... The footnote from the translation reads:

[417] The word Farsakh in Arabic means extended and uninterrupted. It is only used in Persian to denote a unit of distance. It is not clear why the talk that is being carried out in Arabic is mixed up with Persian words. This points out to the weakness of this tradition and its unreliability.

Edited by macisaac
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