Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Maula Dha Mallang

Am I A Fitnah Monger If I Do Not Want Unity?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

See the image, I hope that clears the issue. He is not stating it is haram rather it is discouraged.

fatwa.jpg

Yes bro I agree. I was dubious about the fatwa saying it was haram, as per usual it looks like someone made a "mistake" when bringing that info to us.

Khameini's site:

- Wearing ties and bow ties

Q: Occasionally, the wearing of ties and bow ties is noted while attending a wedding, or, simply while walking down the street. What is the religious (shar'i) ruling on wearing such accouterments?

A: It is not permissible to wear such items on the basis that it is an imitation of and propagation for the cultural assault against Muslims.

http://www.khamenei.de/fatwas/29questions....nd%20bow%20ties

Your eminence has stated that it is not permissible to wear the clothing of the aggressors, or propagate their cultural attack against the Muslims. You have also clarified the issue in stating that for Muslims born and who live in the West, it is permissible to wear Western clothing as long as it also doesn't actively promote cultural aggression against the Muslims. (These questions have been asked relating some other fatwas about western clothes, see: 29 Questions)

http://www.khamenei.de/fatwas/further.htm

Since these are also from him, noting his fatawa in context - this is not a casual declaration of it being makruh.

This is the problem when you have someone who is a marja and at the same time "supreme leader" of his country, you cannot trust his rulings as being based on sound religious sources, they will be tainted by political considerations.

Even those marja who are not part of a political establishment, but have ideological objectives when passing out fatawa will have their verdicts "tainted by political considerations"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
salams, ya ali madat and lanat on the enemies of the ahlebeyt everyone

i want to know, am i the only one who has the following thoughts:

sayed shaheed al sadr (may Allah grant him the highest place in jannat) was a big factor in sunni/ shia unity in iraq and the wider world during his too short life. i remember reading his works on unity (where he refers to sunnis as "sons of abu bakr" and shias as "sons of ali" i think), it was good and everything. i understand the need for unity in the sense he was talking about in that day and age and place. look now at iraq, god knows we need unity. but what, exactly, IS "unity"? is it living peacefully side by side in brotherhood, or is it something else?

more and more aalims are talking about unity, but they see unity (in the sense that haramis such as sipah e sahaba/ tali tubbies stop killing us) as only being achieved by somehow "watering down" our faith so as not to offend mainstream sunni sentiments, and i think this is way the hell wrong.

plenty of examples to choose from - for example people now questioning whether umar, qunfath (LA :mad:) and the rest really did attack bibi paak, or whether its a dodgy chain or over exaggerated or something, which means shias feel insecure and cannot now talk to sunnis about this tragedy which their heroes committed so thats one less certainty most shias now have of their evil. they are chipping away at what makes us who we are.

but the one that really gets to me is tabarra.

people forbidding us, or saying we should avoid cursing those who deserve to be cursed is forbidding us from doing that what we MUST do. if it offends sunnis, then tough. i live in the uk, most of us live in the west. our lives are not in danger so taqiyya is not allowed. if you are in iraq or afganis[Edited Out] then of course the rules are different you do what you have to, to stay alive. im talking about the west.

cursing is a part of tabarra, some things you HAVE to do publicly. we are not living in taqiyya so do not need to keep anything private. by cursing i mean "lanats". when a sunni asks you why you curse for example abu bakr, umar or usman, then why dont we tell them, instead of hiding away like frightened chickens around a fox? ive been telling sunnis all my life i curse their peers. and you know what? now every sunni ive spoken to knows what their role models got up to.

why cant we as shias say "if you want unity, prove to us the caliphate was halal, or testify to the superiority of maula ali and reject 1, 2 and 3". if they cannot, and expect us to fit our religion to their views, then as i always seem to say, unity be damned.

Keep peace with them.. we cant be friends with the people who killed prophets family.. if someone killed your dad you wouldnt be all up tight with them.. I personally dont hate sunnis but do not believe friendship with those who follow or praise the one that bothered or hurt ahlul bayt.. Allah couldnt come up with a punishment fitting the killers of ahlul bayt that could be done with this worlds weapons and animals.. So he waited till they went to there grave.. Then he added punishements beyond the imaginable for them.. (WARNING: not a real quote.. probably not true.. just what i wrote down..)

Edited by ShiaSoldier@2007

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Khameini's site:

http://www.khamenei.de/fatwas/29questions....nd%20bow%20ties

http://www.khamenei.de/fatwas/further.htm

Since these are also from him, noting his fatawa in context - this is not a casual declaration of it being makruh.

He has not deemed it haram mutlaqan. He says for work purposes as my question was posed it should be avoided if possible but when the question is in regards to social gatherings he has deemed it haram.

Just another point from the passage you have quoted from his website: 'You have also clarified the issue in stating that for Muslims born and who live in the West, it is permissible to wear Western clothing as long as it also doesn't actively promote cultural aggression against the Muslims.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quran [3:61] If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge Hath come to thee, say: "Come! let us gather together,- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie!"

If you get a chance, you should bring your point of view in front. Don't go in for a scuffle or something, just do it in a dignified manner. Do Mubahela. Indulge in active discussions. You are lucky that you can speak your mind in some countries. In the Middle-East, you can't say openly that you are a shia. You won't get jobs and there are times that you can be thrown out of prayer rooms for possessing sajdagah!

Co-operation is always better than conflict. If you know that saying something will lead to destruction than it's better to avoid it. But, no you mustn't abandon it. Tabbarra is wajib. So, if you are getting a chance to speak up then you should. But, choose your words carefully. What you say and how you say it is important.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
QUOTE (MohammadMufti @ Oct 18 2008, 11:44 PM)

Khameini's site:

http://www.khamenei.de/fatwas/29questions....nd%20bow%20ties

http://www.khamenei.de/fatwas/further.htm

Since these are also from him, noting his fatawa in context - this is not a casual declaration of it being makruh.

Assalamu Alaykum

Wether we are Shia or Sunni,Is there any western power propagating Muslims culture? They are Preventing our Women and girls to Wear the Hijab ( Islamic veil) even in our muslim Countries like Turkey.

Can Someone Bring us any Johnny Walker Bush, Gin Tonic Blair, Gordon's Dry BROWn, Nicolas champagne Sarkozy or Merkel's bavaria wearing a JILBAB, or any muslim or Arab clothing ?

Prince Harry, Jean Sarkozy... suffice it for this lady Diana to approach muslims and She was forced to Swallow Her Birth cirtificate.

No it is Not permissible , It is FORBIDDEN for them to Wear muslim Clothings or names Like this BARACK OBAMA, there is a Complete Blackout about his "HUSSEIN" they all avoid. We don't mind if it is unwritten Rule, as a true muslim, I would like to retaliate the same and Our marja's Fatwas are fitting the purpose. There is no Constraint in Religion, if you are compelled then you better do what you can to secure your life, job ...

Maa Salaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

salams bro follower, how are you?

what therefore happens to "unity" every time iranians up and down iran start sending lanats on our country after every namaz? dont the rules you listed apply there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
salams bro follower, how are you?

what therefore happens to "unity" every time iranians up and down iran start sending lanats on our country after every namaz? dont the rules you listed apply there?

Salaams,

Alhamdolilah. Inshallah you are well.

So now you are going from Unity on Religious grounds to Political grounds? Why the change? And that Unity also with the non muslim countries such as UK, US and Israel?

Secondly, after every namaz they recite this:

Khodaya Khodaya ta Engalabe Mahdi

Az Nehzate Khomeini

Mohafezaf befarmaa

Khamenei-e-rahbar, be lotfe khod neghdar

Razmande-gaane eslam, nosrat ataa befarmaa

Didare roye Mahdi, nasibe maa begardan

Ziarate Karbala, nasibe ma befarma

Ameen, ya rabbal alameen.

Can you tell me where is the lanat in the above passage?

Thirdly, what you are referring to is the slogans that are done during Friday Namaz mainly regarding US, UK and Israel. Since when are those 'our' countries? Moreover, are they not tahgut? so we should unite with the Tahgut?

Edited by A follower

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got one simple argument.

If (anyone who would like to be identified as a) Sunni honestly want unity with Shia, then they should, atleast, condemn the killers of Shias (Taliban, Anjuman Sipah Sahaba, Al Quaida, etc.) and they should certainly NOT sympathize for those organizations....

I haven't even mentioned NATO military because they're actually our common enemy, intoxicated in self confidence of power, like a mad elephant they've become a scourge for the peace loving world regardless of religions.

The previously mentioned organizations of extremist "Wahabies" or whatever are the ones that need to be banned, shut down and cleaned out with whatever means necessary. And a Sunni should hold that view and help achieve that objective so there may be sanity among our ranks, and so the fire starters, violent interrupters and these deceptive agents of the enemy may be put away for advancement towards peace and solution of the problems of our blessed Ummah. So we may actually find what works for us, while these violent satanic fools are absent and not there to distract, incite, rouse, misguide and deceive us all.

If you want them in it as attendants, then you're dishonest and what you really want is submission from us and that we compromise on your core beliefs. This may be the truth about most such individuals and "peace and unity activisits", even some "shia" ones....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've got one simple argument.

If (anyone who would like to be identified as a) Sunni honestly want unity with Shia, then they should, atleast, condemn the killers of Shias (Taliban, Anjuman Sipah Sahaba, Al Quaida, etc.) and they should certainly NOT sympathize for those organizations....

Salaams bro

its not simple bro. If we are shia and believe in Imamate then its what the Imams want. If the Imams want unity regardless of whether the other side denigrates us, then we must atleast not be averse to the possibility of unity. If they reject our overtures, then we stand on Qiyamat day with our obligations fulfilled and they the guilty ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unity cannot happen i will never compromise the sahaba and im a moderate. Respect tolerence ,coexistence yes we should be peacefull but to unify this cannot and will never occur. The prophet told us islam will divide into 73 sects and 72 will be in hellfire. They asked him who is this saved group the prophet said they will be the jammaa ( the majority). also i dont believe yr scholers when they say not to curse sahaba this is just a trick to decieve sunnis and infiltrate them with their system. its like cheese for the mouse. everyones entitled to their belief and lakum dinukum walia deen. You keep your faith and i have mine. sorry for being blunt to the point. i prefer to be honest than sneaky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unity cannot happen i will never compromise the sahaba and im a moderate. Respect tolerence ,coexistence yes we should be peacefull but to unify this cannot and will never occur. The prophet told us islam will divide into 73 sects and 72 will be in hellfire. They asked him who is this saved group the prophet said they will be the jammaa ( the majority). also i dont believe yr scholers when they say not to curse sahaba this is just a trick to decieve sunnis and infiltrate them with their system. its like cheese for the mouse. everyones entitled to their belief and lakum dinukum walia deen. You keep your faith and i have mine. sorry for being blunt to the point. i prefer to be honest than sneaky.

Assalamu Alaykum

Thank you very much for your clarifications but as a former Sunni, ( though Muhammad mufti started Doubting but when asked to make a Mubahala he flew away), I would like you to READ your Books First and foremost; IQRA is the First verse ever Revealed, READ please; Secondly if youfinish reading the 6 SIHAH BOOKS ( Bukhari, muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, ibn majeh and AL Nasai) Please bring us not 1,2,3 Hadiths BUT ONE, ONLY ONE in the 6 SIHAHS Were Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is reported to have said What you mentionned Above i.e the Jamaa ( the majority)

Secondly The Qur'an verse says :

If You Follow the majority... For GOD's sake! Do you remember this verse ?

So why are you stating facts that are in contradiction with The holy Qur'an and more pitiful with your Own Saheeh Books?

Guess again...

Maa Salaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wil provide u with a few hadiths and there are many. Secondly u say were were a former sunni i have doubts as many shia in forums use this taqia to confuse. Lastly the verse in the koran u want me to read has no relevance to the subject?? here are the hadith and im sure youll not be satisfied but read them enjoy

Hadith 1

"Awf ibn Malik reported that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, 'The Jews split into 71 sects: one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 sects: 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose hand is my soul, my Ummah will split into 73 sects: one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.' Someone asked, 'O Messenger ofAllah (Peace be upon him), who will they be?' He replied, 'The main body of the Muslims (al-Jama'ah).' Awf ibn Malik is the only one who reported this Hadith, and its isnad is acceptable." And in another version of this Hadith the Prophet (Peace be upon him) goes onto say that the saved sect, "...Are those who follow my and my Sahaba's path" (Tirmidhi, vol. 2, pg. 89)

Hadith 2

Imam's Ahmad and Abu Dawood (Allah's mercy be upon them) said that Abu Dharr (Allah be pleased with him) reported the Prophet (Peace be upon him) as saying:

"He who separates from the main body (of the Ummah) by even a hand's breadth from the Community he throws off Islam from his neck." (Mishkat-ul-Masabih, 1/185 & Sunan Abu Dawood, 3/4740)

Hadith 3

'Umar (Allah be pleased with him) reported that on one occasion Allah's Messenger (Peace and blessings be upon him) stood up among them and said, "Whoever among you desires the centre of paradise should keep close to the Jama'ah for the Devil closely accompanies the solitary individual and is more distant from two." (Collected by Imam Tirmidhi)

Hadith 4

'Arfajah (Allah be pleased with him) reported (Allah's Messenger, peace be upon him, as saying): "that Allah's hand is over the Jama'ah and the Devil is with whoever deviates from the Jama'ah." (Collected by Imam al-Tabarani)

Hadith 5

Mu'adh ibn Jabal (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) said, "The Devil is like a wolf among humans as a wolf is among sheep; it snatches the stray sheep. So beware of the paths which branch off and adhere to the Jama'ah, the masses and the Masjid." (Collected by Imam Ahmad; NB- The version given in Mishkat, 1/184, also on the authority of Imam Ahmad does not have the addition 'the masses and the masjid.')

Hadith 6

Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) as saying:

"Follow the great mass (as-Sawad al-Azam) for he who kept himself away from it, in fact would be thrown in Hell Fire." (Ibn Majah; vide: Mishkat, 1/174, by A.H. Siddiqui).

It is clear from the above Hadiths that we must stick to the Main Body of Muslims, as for who are the Majority well if you look around the world you will see the Mjority are those that follow a Madhab for Fiqh, Follow the Ashari/Maturidi for Aqeedah etc....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wil provide u with a few hadiths and there are many. Secondly u say were were a former sunni i have doubts as many shia in forums use this taqia to confuse. Lastly the verse in the koran u want me to read has no relevance to the subject?? here are the hadith and im sure youll not be satisfied but read them enjoy

Hadith 1

"Awf ibn Malik reported that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, 'The Jews split into 71 sects: one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 sects: 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose hand is my soul, my Ummah will split into 73 sects: one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.' Someone asked, 'O Messenger ofAllah (Peace be upon him), who will they be?' He replied, 'The main body of the Muslims (al-Jama'ah).' Awf ibn Malik is the only one who reported this Hadith, and its isnad is acceptable." And in another version of this Hadith the Prophet (Peace be upon him) goes onto say that the saved sect, "...Are those who follow my and my Sahaba's path" (Tirmidhi, vol. 2, pg. 89)

Hadith 2

Imam's Ahmad and Abu Dawood (Allah's mercy be upon them) said that Abu Dharr (Allah be pleased with him) reported the Prophet (Peace be upon him) as saying:

"He who separates from the main body (of the Ummah) by even a hand's breadth from the Community he throws off Islam from his neck." (Mishkat-ul-Masabih, 1/185 & Sunan Abu Dawood, 3/4740)

Hadith 3

'Umar (Allah be pleased with him) reported that on one occasion Allah's Messenger (Peace and blessings be upon him) stood up among them and said, "Whoever among you desires the centre of paradise should keep close to the Jama'ah for the Devil closely accompanies the solitary individual and is more distant from two." (Collected by Imam Tirmidhi)

Hadith 4

'Arfajah (Allah be pleased with him) reported (Allah's Messenger, peace be upon him, as saying): "that Allah's hand is over the Jama'ah and the Devil is with whoever deviates from the Jama'ah." (Collected by Imam al-Tabarani)

Hadith 5

Mu'adh ibn Jabal (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) said, "The Devil is like a wolf among humans as a wolf is among sheep; it snatches the stray sheep. So beware of the paths which branch off and adhere to the Jama'ah, the masses and the Masjid." (Collected by Imam Ahmad; NB- The version given in Mishkat, 1/184, also on the authority of Imam Ahmad does not have the addition 'the masses and the masjid.')

Hadith 6

Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) as saying:

"Follow the great mass (as-Sawad al-Azam) for he who kept himself away from it, in fact would be thrown in Hell Fire." (Ibn Majah; vide: Mishkat, 1/174, by A.H. Siddiqui).

It is clear from the above Hadiths that we must stick to the Main Body of Muslims, as for who are the Majority well if you look around the world you will see the Mjority are those that follow a Madhab for Fiqh, Follow the Ashari/Maturidi for Aqeedah etc....

You Win lol ! I am talking about the most uttered the most reverred one that you avoided or don't have ..., anyway can you give us Arabic texts of The Above mentionned hadiths so that every one can be sure of your Proofs here ?

then why Qaradawi is so worried about Shia invasion If he knew it is the majority that is the real believers ? why all the sunnis are worried and dubious about ex-sunnis reverting to SHIA islam? do you care about Kuffars? come on 10% cannot frighten 90% ? it is impossible or i really do miss something like wordings with FOLLOWERS of KITABULLAH and SAHABAS ( BOOK OF Allah and MY COMPANIONS are 1 of the 73 sects and those who are on the sirat al mustaqeem).

Bring it And I revert to SUNNA again. promissed !

Maa Salaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Asalaam Alekium,

Two points:

1. Read posts made by "A Follower" carefully and try and understand what he is saying because its simple logic.

2. Unity does Not mean Uniformity

Ayatullah Khomeini declared unity week because sunni and shia have different dates for the Birth of the Prophet pbuh. Start there.

Ma'salaama

light.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assalamu Alaykum Dear Aisha 999

Walaa kin Aksharannas ...

Wa minhuùm muhtadi Wa KATHIRUNN MINHUM FASEQUNE

...

You Still talking about Majority ? What the Majority of QUR'AN VERSES SAY ABOUT MAJORITY

Let's Come back to your first Assumption about SAHABAS and their SUNNA.

Please just quote, not 6 or "numerous hadeeths", but just one and Only ONE hadeeth with the expression kitâb Allâh wa sonnatî to be Followed after the Demise of HOLY PROPHET (pbuh) in any of the 6 fundamentals books (which are Bokhârî, Moslim, Tirmidhî, Ibn Mâdjah, Abou Dâwoud and Nasâ'î). You can call to your support all your friends and knowledges amongst Humans and Jinns to achieve this task.

As I told Muhammad Mufti, The Grand father of My Grandfather Knew Your Numerous Hadeeths mentionned Above century ago!. And Today, My Family, father and mother with brothers and Sisters are Still being SUNNI, but not like You, They Are not Worshipping Quraysh "GRAND SAHABAS" Idols. ( they are SUNNI because they are not even aware of SHIA, at least what they know by Hearsay is that SHIAS are ALI Worshippers, Angel Gabriel Was Mistaken ...)

Also, By The Time of The SHAH, All SUNNI, mostly Arabs Were portraying Persians ( SHIAS) as DEVILISH People Due to His Friendship with Israelis and Americans. Surprisingly When Imam Khomeyni Destroyed The SHAH Regime, They Sent SATAN of TIKRIT To Erase the Islamic Revolution of Iran !!!.

The Antagonism of SUNNI ideology where they are at the same time for and Against one thing is amazing. they do the same in religion, They Reckon the values Of Imam ALI (as), They Do Reckon the Evil Deeds of Grand SAHABAS but they Prefer Considering GRAND SAHABAS as The BEST OF all Creatures, They Are Forgiven the Day of BADR by Allah ( Astaghfirullah). is it not contradictory ? A SAHABA Worshipper Cannot See Any contradiction in their misleading Beliefs.

If UNITY Means Compromising With SAHABAS Worshippers , then Let us together Send UNITY itself to The HELL.

Maa Salaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bro Follower do you not see political unity and religious unity as similar enough in this day and age to be interchangeable? arent the reasons we cannot do tabarra openly mostly political? the days when politics was for the politicians and fiqah for the marjas have been over for a very long time.

can i just make this point again, im not saying sunnis and shias shouldnt live side by side. but i DO think theres a hell of a lot of double standards going on, which involves shias doing all the "integrating". when was the last time there was an organised drive from sunnis to help out in things like niaz or first aid during muharram for example?

theres 2 examples right here on this thread - look. you tell me sending public lanats in front of people who might be offended is wrong and gives a bad impression. yet we see in iran (the country which has the most people talking about "unity", they do more lanats in public than anyone else!!

of course i see the uk as "my" country, im proud to live here. i find it odd that you call it a taghut when its given you everything, your free education, free healthcare, safety from persecution for your religion, your language, a (former) stable economy....you owe this country a hell of a lot more than you owe any other muslim country (apart from maybe pakistan :P). it may have plenty of problems but no country on earth is perfect. and if i had to choose between here and anywhere in the muslim world - shining beacon of shiaism or not - id choose here. simply because ironically im more free to practice my faith here than i am there! how can you study here in university and benefit from its resources then put it down in the same breath?

iranians arent saying "marj bar *insert iranian for "uk/us foreign policy"*" or "marj bar *insert iranian for corrupt ministers*" theyre saying uk - and that includes the people. and that includes me and you whether you deny it or not. actually i just thought forget sunnis why should i have unity with IRANIANS that send lanats on people they dont even know?

lets see iranians say "barr bakr lanat" in public one time. considering its what, a 90% shia country? what have they got to be scared of?

secondly - wheres the "unity" with anyone telling your muqallids not to wear neckties cos it symbolises western opression! what do you think of mohammedmuftis fatwas? i get the impression that the iranian regime doesnt really know itself what unity is or means

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bro Follower do you not see political unity and religious unity as similar enough in this day and age to be interchangeable? arent the reasons we cannot do tabarra openly mostly political? the days when politics was for the politicians and fiqah for the marjas have been over for a very long time.

Religious Unity and Political Untiy are different. Political Unity with non muslims has nothing to do with the religious unity we have or seek with other sects. Political Unity is done where there is mutual benefit for both states through economical deals etc or where two parties work for each other's benefit, can you put the same for Religious Unity?

The reasons for doing open Tabarra are not political, you seem to think they are but find me where the Imams [a] encouraged such an action openly? Moreover, the reasoning for political grounds is minimal much of it comes from the lifes of the Imams [a], that is the main basis of this stance from the Marjas as to why they say it is not to be done openly.

can i just make this point again, im not saying sunnis and shias shouldnt live side by side. but i DO think theres a hell of a lot of double standards going on, which involves shias doing all the "integrating". when was the last time there was an organised drive from sunnis to help out in things like niaz or first aid during muharram for example?

Why do we have to seek that from the Sunnis? Is it necessary?

Look at the life of Imam Ali [a] where he speaks about how he had to apply patience for the sake of Islam after the Caliphate was taken away. Look at how he went as far as giving advice to Umar when Umar wanted it and in return he did not ask for anything. Why do we in return for unity with the Sunnis want them to do something? For us to ask them to do something makes us no different that their version of Unity. They when proposing Unity ask us to compromise and by us asking something we put them in the same situation.

Remove these expectations just as the Imam [a] had no expectation when advising Umar when he came to ask him abt the battles.

theres 2 examples right here on this thread - look. you tell me sending public lanats in front of people who might be offended is wrong and gives a bad impression. yet we see in iran (the country which has the most people talking about "unity", they do more lanats in public than anyone else!!

You are twisting the statements to suit you. Firstly, you have to accept you were wrong in your statement when you said that Iran sends lanat on everyone after every namaz.

Secondly, is Marg barg which means Death equal to Lanat? Again you are twisting the meaning here to suit your thoughts. They are two different things, one is calling for the downfall while other is invoking Allah to remove His mercy and dissociating from them. Clear distinctions are between two concepts.

Thirdly, there is no might be offensive in doing tabarra in front of Sunnis. They are offended by it period. When you explain your reasoning to someone and then do the action it is better than just doing the action because to the other person he is ignorant of your reasoning and he is put off by it. You gave the example yourself that the Sunnis respect you more because you explain to them why you do it. Remember action without knowledge of it just seems like a blind action to an outsider.

Fourthly, explaining to an average Sunni is different than explaining to one who is well versed about his religion. You try and put the explanation and he will bring his sources to refute you so the explanation does not even help there because neither of you are open minded. You are saying I wish to do open tabarra on these personalities and he is refuting you saying how can you because of this and that and it becomes a circular arguement which gets no where. So in this case what would you do given that the explanation has failed?

of course i see the uk as "my" country, im proud to live here. i find it odd that you call it a taghut when its given you everything, your free education, free healthcare, safety from persecution for your religion, your language, a (former) stable economy....you owe this country a hell of a lot more than you owe any other muslim country (apart from maybe pakistan :P). it may have plenty of problems but no country on earth is perfect. and if i had to choose between here and anywhere in the muslim world - shining beacon of shiaism or not - id choose here. simply because ironically im more free to practice my faith here than i am there! how can you study here in university and benefit from its resources then put it down in the same breath?

Given that I have only lived here 10 years and my family paid fees for healthcare, education and everything I find no hesitant in calling it a tahgut. It is a tahgut, given the atrocities it has committed against my brothers in faith and humanity. Look at the oppression in Iran before the revolution, look at Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon to name a few examples against muslims. Just because I have this so called 'freedom' which in itself is not freedom btw as you are the slave of their system does not mean that I give up the rights I have over my other muslim brothers. Remember the hadith of the Prophet [p] which says that 'One who gets up in the morning and is not concerned about the affairs of the Muslim Ummah is NOT a muslim' For me, those rights come before anything else. I would not compromise on that regardless of how much a country pays for my healthcare, my education.

I studied at the University by paying fees which inturn gives me the right to use the resources, it is not as like they are a doing a favour upon me. Moreover, preceptions differ, I would say practising your faith in this environment is not that great due to the lack of spirituality here. I find Iran great in that aspect or even Iraq. You are implying just because there is restriction on open tabarra you are easy to practise your faith here however for me faith does not equal to tabarra rather my faith is everything that is in furu ie my prayers, my fasts, my zakaat etc.

iranians arent saying "marj bar *insert iranian for "uk/us foreign policy"*" or "marj bar *insert iranian for corrupt ministers*" theyre saying uk - and that includes the people. and that includes me and you whether you deny it or not. actually i just thought forget sunnis why should i have unity with IRANIANS that send lanats on people they dont even know?

First get the terminology right. I really hate to say this but you keep doing this throughout where you twist a meaning or apply another terminology mixing the concepts.

Secondly, have you ever heard the slogans? They are not done to people they do not know. They are done to the Government/Policies rather than the people of UK, US and Israel. If you really think it applies to the people then again its your assumption.

lets see iranians say "barr bakr lanat" in public one time. considering its what, a 90% shia country? what have they got to be scared of?

Is population a factor in doing the Lanat? And just to put your mind to ease and I am sure Ali Imran can verify this too, while we were in Mashad on Tuesday morning after Fajr when we were leaving in the courtyard of the Shrine of Imam Al Ridha [a] there were lanats being done and the roar could be heard even inside. Whether it was done with 'barr bakr lanat' or 'aik do teen pe lanat' I am not sure but it was for good 10 mins that this was happening and not even the guards objected.

secondly - wheres the "unity" with anyone telling your muqallids not to wear neckties cos it symbolises western opression! what do you think of mohammedmuftis fatwas? i get the impression that the iranian regime doesnt really know itself what unity is or means

Quite funny how you forget to read the context of the Fatwas. Ayatollah Khamenai allows wearing it within an environment where it is a necessity but he deems it non-permissible in social aspect, read the fatwas from MM and notice the question it relates to gatherings and weddings. And why is tie such a big issue if he give this ruling? In his opinion, it symbolises cultural oppression from the West so what is the big deal about it?

Furthermore from the quoted fatwa I highlighted this bit: 'You have also clarified the issue in stating that for Muslims born and who live in the West, it is permissible to wear Western clothing as long as it also doesn't actively promote cultural aggression against the Muslims.'

----------------------------------

On another note, here is a good speech by Sheikh Hamza Sodagar on the issue of Unity. Have a listen, it is one of the best speeches I have heard from him.

Edited by A follower

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...