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Abdul-Rahman Brent

Defending The Blessed Persian People

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Salamu alaikum this article will refute some common “sunni” nasibi wahhabi (so-called “salafi”) attacks on the proud Shi’a Muslims of Iran (aka Persia). This article will list and refute common nasibi wahhabi “sunni” claims on this issue. First I want to just give 2 authentic hadiths from Sunnis hadith book; Sahih Muslim

Chapter 59: THE MERITS OF THE PEOPLE OF PERSIA

________________________________________

Book 031, Number 6177:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: If the din were at the Pleiades, even then a person from Persia would have taken hold of it, or one amongst the Persian descent would have surely found it.

________________________________________

Book 031, Number 6178:

Abu Huraira reported: We were sitting in the company of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) that Sura al-Jumu'a was revealed to him and when he recited (these words):" Others from amongst them who have not yet joined them," a person amongst them (those who were sitting there) said: Allah's Messenger! But Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) made no reply, until he questioned him once, twice or thrice. And there was amongst us Salman the Persian. The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) placed his hand on Salman and then said: Even if faith were near the Pleiades, a man from amongst these would surely find it.

Now on to the heart of this article:

1. Sunni wahhabis claim that umar ibn al-khattab allegedly did a selfless “jihad” to bring Islam into Persia.

Answer- In reality the illegal dictator umar ibn al-khattab used his army to invade lands (including Persia) not to spread Islam but for gaining personal economic benefits via stealing “booty” and taking over more land. The fact that umar and his ilk were not interested in spreading Islam can be seen from umar’s racist policies. Quote from answering-ansar.org; quote- Imam Abdulrazaq al-San’ani records in his authority work Al-Musanaf, Volume 5 page 474:

ÚÈÏÇáÑÒÇÞ Úä ãÚãÑ Úä ÇáÒåÑí ÞÇá : ßÇä ÚãÑ Èä ÇáÎØÇÈ áÇ íÊÑß ÃÍÏÇ ãä ÇáÚÌã íÏÎá ÇáãÏíäÉ

Abdulrazaq – Mu'amar – Al-Zuhari said: ‘Umar bin al-Khatab didn’t allow any one of the non Arab to enter Madina.’

Abdulrazaq: Dahabi said: ‘Thiqah’ (Mizan al-Etidal, v2 p609), Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p599). Mu'amar: Dahabi said: ‘Hujja’ (Tazkirat al-Hufaz, v1 p190), Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah Thabt’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p202). Al-Zuhari: Dahabi said: ‘Hujja’ (Mizan al-Etidal, v4 p40), Ibn Hajar said: ‘There is an agreement on his magnificence’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p133).

end quote.

Going to Madinah the capitol of the Muslim nation at that time and the place of burial of the Prophet(SAWW); was something every Muslim should’ve been allowed to do. The fact umar ibn al-khattab in his panarab racism forbid this to some non-Arab Muslims (note not non-Muslims, just non-Arabs) shows that he was interested only in building an empire with Arabs on top and all others as at the very best being second class citizens. The Iranians would only truly accept authentic Islam; delievered with the guidance of the Masoom Holy Ahl a-Bayt(as).

2. Sunnis and wahhabis claim that Iran (aka Persia) was allegedly “all” or “mostly” Sunni before the Safavid dynasty that started in 1502 C.E.

Answer- This is not true. Most sources will show you that Iranians remained members of the Ahlul-Kitab faith of Zoroastrianism for quite a while after the Arab invasion ordered by umar ibn al-khattab. This actually reutes anti-Islamic speakers who claim that early “Arab conquests” were allegedly Muslims “forcing others to convert at the point of the sword.” In reality, umar and his people considered the largely Zoroastrian Iranians as Ahlul-Kitab and only made them pay the Jizyah taxes paid by all non-Muslims.

As for when the Iranians did accept Islam they didn’t not “completely” or even “largely” become Sunnis. In Persia at this pre-Safavid time there were many Sufi Muslim orders. As is the case with some Sufi orders even today; many of these Persian Sufi Muslim orders had extremely close conncetions to Shi’a Islam. In some cases one could say these Persian Sufi Muslim orders were Shi’a Muslims in all but name; via their love and devotion to the Masoom Holy Ahl al-Bayt(as). Lastly, it must be known that there was always a sizeable Shi’a Muslim presence in Iran; especially after Imam Musa al-Kazim(as) lived and died in Mashad, Iran. Iranian cities like the Holy City of Qom, the Holy City of Mashad, etc. had huge populations of Shi’a Muslims long before the Safavids came to power in Iran (aka Persia).

3. Regarding Zoroastrianism some Sunnis and wahhabis claim that they are allegedly “pagans” and most commonly assert that they are allegedly “fire worshippers”!

Answer- Regarding the first issue, it’s clear that Zoroastrianism is a monotheistic religion that is among the Ahlul-Kitab religions (Ahlul-Kitab religions include- Christianity, Judaism, and Zoroastrianism). As said before; link: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28714

Quote- May Allah (swt) increase our faith and strengthen our will to advance His causes.

Many scholars regard Zoroastrians as People of the Book because Zoroastrianism was originally a monothesitic religion. Allah (swt) sent them a prophet, who some say his name was Zoroaster or "Zardosht." They also have a sacred book which was revealed to them commonly called the "Avesta." Therefore, since Zoroastriansm had a divine origin, even though it has now been significantly changed and adulterated, some classify its followers as part of the People of the Book. In the history of Islam, for some time the Muslims treated them as the part of the People of the Book and imposed the jizya on them.

Wassalam.

M. Baqer Al-Qazwini

end quote.

Also read from the Holy Qur’an Surah 2:62 [Yusufali 2:62] Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 2:62]

Sabeans belonged to Chaldean religion. Their religion was much modified at various times and places by Jewish, Gnostic and Zoroastrian influences, and so there are conflicting accounts of them in various Muslim authors. Star-worship was the distinctive feature of their religion, otherwise they were monotheists.

And to remove misunderstanding, it should be noted that this verse refers to those Sabeans, Jews and Christians who, as sincere faithful, followed the original teachings of their respective prophets, without ever corrupting the true message, and believing in the prophecy of the advent of Muhammad made known by Musa, Isa and other prophets (see Baqarah: 40), and also those of them who lived in the days of the Holy Prophet but died before the news of his proclamation of the promised prophethood could reach them, because surely they would have come into the fold of Islam if they had known about it. Belief in the unity of Allah and the day of judgement and doing good is the spirit of Islam. This was the religion all the messengers of Allah preached to their people.

end quote.

Also their exists in sunnis book “Muwatta of Imam Malik”; a hadith that has a companion informing Umar that Zoroastrians are people of the book (Ahlul-Kitab). Dealing with “blood money” payment for a death;

Section: The Blood-Money of the People of Protection (Dhimma)

Book 43, Number 43.15.8b:

Malik said, "The blood-monies of the jew, christian, and magian in their injuries, is according to the injury of the muslims in their blood-moneys. The head wound is a twentieth of his full blood-money. The wound that opens the head is a third of his blood-money. The belly-wound is a third of his blood-money. All their injuries are according to this calculation."

end quote.

Lastly, on this topic is refuting the tired claim that Zoroastrians are (or were) allegedly “fire worshippers”. On this topic read about the Zoroastrian belief system; from link: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/zoroastrianism/FAQ/

Quote- Zoroastrian worship involves prayers and symbolic

ceremonies said before a sacred fire. This fire, which was a God-

symbol even before Zarathushtra, was used by the Prophet and by

his followers ever after as the ideal sign of God, who is light,

warmth, energy. Zoroastrians do NOT worship fire, as some people

believe. They use Fire as a symbol, or an icon, the focus of their

worship.

end quote.

So in a sense Zoroastrians use “fire” as their “Qibla”; they believe fire represents Good deeds, Good thoughts, Good actions. That is they believe their ceremonial fire is a representation of Noor meaning Goodness and thus a symbol for Allah(SWT).

It in many respects similar to the Holy Kaaba in Islam. We as Muslims don’t worship the Kaaba it is only a holy symbol and something we show reverence to. The fire temple functions in much the same way for Zoroastrians it’s a symbol (that is they do NOT worship the fire); a symbol of Ahura Mazda (The Wise Lord).

4. Also attacking Zoroastrianism; some secular western scholars and some Sunni wahhabi propagandists claim that Zoroastrians are allegedly “dualists”. That is they claim Zoroastrians believe that there are two equal forces, a God of Good and a Satanic figure of evil that are battling and it is allegedly not clear who is stronger or will win.

Answer- Refuting this is simple. The true Zoroastrians (that is Mazdaic Zoroastrians) believed (and believe) there is one All-Powerful God: Ahura Mazda (The Wise Lord). The forces of evil put up a fight but they will be defeated as only Ahura Mazda is All-Powerful. Speaking on this topic read from this link from the main Zoroastrian archive and website (note that Ohrmazd is just another spelling of Ahura Maza (aka the Wise Lord, meaning God): http://www.avesta.org/dhalla/history6.htm

Quote- The goodness of Ohrmazd demands that he could on no account be the author of evil. One of the essential requisites of the godhead is goodness. If evil arises from him as the deity, he is imperfect in goodness, and consequently could not be de¬serving of praise and sacrifice from men.8

end quote.

On this similar topic read from answering-ansar.org refuting wahhabi nasibis; link: http://www.answering-ansar.org/wahabis/en/chap5.php

Quote- The Nasibis slander against Allah (swt)

The Salafi/Nasibi belief that Allah (swt) is the root source of acts of polytheism, fornication and homosexuality

In the recognised Ahl'ul Sunnah work "Fiqa-e-Akbar" we read:

"To become Muslim it is obligatory that one believes that all good and evil, pious and bad deeds all come from Allah (swt)".

"Fiqa-e-Akbar" page 13 by Imam 'Abu Hanifa

May Allah (swt) forgive us! This means that Man is helpless and has no control over his actions, all acts are from Allah (swt) man is just a tool like a pen, sword or bike. It is left to Allah (swt) to use these tools and man has absolutely no discretion. Taking this to its logical conclusion, this Fatwa means that Allah (swt) murdered Hadhrath Uthman; Allah (swt) issued Hadhrath Hafsa with the utterance of 'first' divorce. Furthermore, it means that every brothel in the world is run by Allah (swt), and that acts of kufr, polytheism, fornication, homosexuality, child abuse, robbery, theft, drinking etc are all arranged by Allah (swt). This likewise also means that Allah (swt) also wills chants raised against the Sahaba. This is the faith of the Nasibis.

end quote.

May Allah(SWT) bless and protect all my Persian Shi’a Muslim brothers and sisters, Insha Allah.

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I don't see the need to defend any zoroastrian or their belief.. may Allah curse everyone of them

And nobody's degrading them.. you will find that the most learned sunni ulema were infact persian

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I don't see the need to defend any zoroastrian or their belief.. may Allah curse everyone of them

And nobody's degrading them.. you will find that the most learned sunni ulema were infact persian

Zoroastrians are Ahlul-Kitab; in fact in some respects Zoroastrianism is one of the better Ahlul-Kitab religions and is on monotheism. It doesn't believe in human sacrifice like Trinitarian Christians, etc. Zoroastrians are clearly Ahlul-Kitab as is confirmed in the Holy Qur'an and hadith (including sunni hadith). Also there were some sunni scholars (possibly Arab imports) in Persia; but overall the majority of the population was always close to the Holy teachings of the Masoom Holy Ahl al-Bayt(as) either via Shi'a Islam or via very pro-Shi'a Sufi Muslim orders that flowed through Persia.

Very good post Br. Abdul-Rahman. Seems like you've done some good research on the matter.

Jazak Allah Khayr.

Edited by Abdul-Rahman Brent

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Oh hell yeah......we Persians or Iranians are ARYANS....understand ?? ARYANS ?? A-R-Y-A-N-S ?/

That means we are goddamn S-U-P-E-R-I-O-R to low class Semites like Jews and Arabs.....burn them all in gas chambers....we;re bloody A-R-Y-A-N-S.

Oh yeah , Islam is not for us , it is a Semitic religion....Oh yeah , we're A-R-Y-A-N-S again. Who cares about a religion that preacjes brotherhood and equality ?? Aryans don't believe in equality , coz we're goddamn S-U-P-E-R-I-O-R.

After all , we're all blond and blue-eyed.

Iran Zamin belongs to A-R-Y-A-N-S like Shah Baz , Darius , Cyrus , Ardeshir , Reza ShahPahlevi and of course , H-I-T-L-E-R , the Aryan God.

Remember , Aryans anre NOT Arabs , Iskam is a Arab religion.....again , we;re P-E-R-S-I-A-N-S , not Muslims.

For those reading this , I hope they understood my sarcasm...it was intended , well at....Mr.Brent - again , a true A-R-Y-A-N and P-E-R-S-I-A-N and Z-O-R-O-A-S-T-R-I-A-N.

He*l Hitler and He*l Pahlavi and He*l Darius - the Aryan Gods.

Edited by Brave_Muslim_Soldier

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brave muslim soldier, .. you disgust me.

Since Sabaens don't exist nowadays, i assume whenever Quran talks about Sabaens it is talking about Majuusi Zoroastrians.

002.062

YUSUFALI: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

PICKTHAL: Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

SHAKIR: Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the f Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

005.069

YUSUFALI: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

PICKTHAL: Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

SHAKIR: Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

This was before i came across across this ayah

022.017

YUSUFALI: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for Allah is witness of all things.

PICKTHAL: Lo! those who believe (this revelation), and those who are Jews, and the Sabaeans and the Christians and the Magians and the idolaters - Lo! Allah will decide between them on the Day of Resurrection. Lo! Allah is Witness over all things.

SHAKIR: Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabeans and the Christians and the Magians and those who associate (others with Allah)-- surely Allah will decide between them on the day of resurrection; surely Allah is a witness over all things.

Allah will decide between them on the day of resurrection. Let him judge them instead of forming your own judgments.

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Oh hell yeah......we Persians or Iranians are ARYANS....understand ?? ARYANS ?? A-R-Y-A-N-S ?/

That means we are goddamn S-U-P-E-R-I-O-R to low class Semites like Jews and Arabs.....burn them all in gas chambers....we;re bloody A-R-Y-A-N-S.

Oh yeah , Islam is not for us , it is a Semitic religion....Oh yeah , we're A-R-Y-A-N-S again. Who cares about a religion that preacjes brotherhood and equality ?? Aryans don't believe in equality , coz we're goddamn S-U-P-E-R-I-O-R.

After all , we're all blond and blue-eyed.

Iran Zamin belongs to A-R-Y-A-N-S like Shah Baz , Darius , Cyrus , Ardeshir , Reza ShahPahlevi and of course , H-I-T-L-E-R , the Aryan God.

Remember , Aryans anre NOT Arabs , Iskam is a Arab religion.....again , we;re P-E-R-S-I-A-N-S , not Muslims.

For those reading this , I hope they understood my sarcasm...it was intended , well at....Mr.Brent - again , a true A-R-Y-A-N and P-E-R-S-I-A-N and Z-O-R-O-A-S-T-R-I-A-N.

He*l Hitler and He*l Pahlavi and He*l Darius - the Aryan Gods.

What? The Persians have a right to be proud of their civilization but that doesn't mean they look down on others. Just look at a hero like President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad(ha); he is always striving for friendship and brotherhood with other Muslims (Iranians and non-Iranians alike). The Persians have been monotheist for longer then just about almost any other people. To in a sense "flip the script" on you it is mostly some Arabs today (largely panarabs and wahhabis) that basically act as if Arabs are allegedly Allah(SWT)'s "chosen people". In fact the Masoom Holy Prophet(SAWW) and the Masoom Holy Ahl al-Bayt(as) was only sent to the Arabs because of how bad they were at that time; they were the very worst of people. Also the Prophet Muhammad al-Mustafa(SAWW) and the Masoom Holy Ahl al-Bayt(as) was created from Allah(SWT)'s own Noor (light) before Adam(as), meaning in his true state he(SAWW) has no set race; but of course he was Arab as a human on this earth.

Also Persians have more reason to be proud in that every one of our Imams(as) after Imam Hussain(as) has some Persian origin. That is because Imam Hussain(as) married the Persian Lady Shahrbanu(as) and their(as) blessed son was the 4th Imam; Imam Ali ibn al-Hussain; Zayn al-Abidin(as).

Edited by Abdul-Rahman Brent

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and soldier... aren't you the one who was raised as shia but are willing to forsake your religion for the sake of a sunna girl and her father?

I on the other hand forsook my family for the sake of my reliigon..... maybe you should inquire as to why....

I invite you to study further the religion you were born to and why we should be following it rather than to follwo the house of the ahl al-biddah......

just a thought, before you critisize others.....

PS, im arab decent so can we keep the insults to a minimun as i do feel we are all shia here.......

Edited by Imed14

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and soldier... aren't you the one who was raised as shia but are willing to forsake your religion for the sake of a sunna girl and her father?

Bro this guy is faking it. He is not Shi'i. He's a Sunni, which is apparent if you read his posts.

May God Reward you immensely, we are indeed Shi'is and like the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) stated: "There is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab or a white man over a black man, except in righteousness".

White, Black, Yellow, Arab, non-Arab, etc. are irrelevant in the eyes of God.

In this respect, let me quote something I heard in a lecture during this blessed month.

Ayat. Khomeini was sitting in a bus with Ayat. Saanei. Saneei then said something along the lines, that Qum will attract the most promising scholars because Najaf is under the occupation of the Ba'ath party (or something like that). Ayat. Khomeini then spent - according to Sheikh Saanei - the remaining four hours of the bus trip explaining to him how it is wrong to feel this way, because it's some type of 'asabiyyah (not really racism as such, because the ethnic distribution is the same in both cities, but more like "regionalism").

Point being - we should be like our rolemodels, Imam Ali (as). Shahid Mutahari narrates:

"Once when a dispute arose between an Arab and an Iranian woman and they referred the case to `Ali(A), he did not allow any discrimination between the two. His judgement invited the protest of the Arab woman. Thereupon, 'Ali(A) stretched his hands and gathered two fistfuls of soil. Then looking at the dust in his hands he declared, `So far as I can see, I cannot make any distinction between these two handfuls of dust.'"

http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/Iran/mutual.htm

Edited by waiting

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Also Persians have more reason to be proud in that every one of our Imams(as) after Imam Hussain(as) has some Persian origin. That is because Imam Hussain(as) married the Persian Lady Shahrbanu(as) and their(as) blessed son was the 4th Imam; Imam Ali ibn al-Hussain; Zayn al-Abidin(as).

hmm, sure about this? Any reliable evidence? What better way to make the religion of the uncivilised lizard-eaters easier to stomach than to infuse the Prophet's bloodline with Royal Persian haemoglobin?

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hmm, sure about this? Any reliable evidence? What better way to make the religion of the uncivilised lizard-eaters easier to stomach than to infuse the Prophet's bloodline with Royal Persian haemoglobin?
does it matter? If we're talking genes, islamicly, the line of siyyed is passed through the father's side. Khomeini was an Arab.

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Also Persians have more reason to be proud in that every one of our Imams(as) after Imam Hussain(as) has some Persian origin. That is because Imam Hussain(as) married the Persian Lady Shahrbanu(as) and their(as) blessed son was the 4th Imam; Imam Ali ibn al-Hussain; Zayn al-Abidin(as).

Isn't the persian blood impuring the bloodline of imams because the father of Shehrbano was a fire worshipper?

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Sabaens do exist. They are a small community in Iraq.

Isnt it weird that Quran mentions a small community Sabaens at least twice but Magians, a far greater a community in size, only once as far as i know?

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does it matter? If we're talking genes, islamicly, the line of siyyed is passed through the father's side. Khomeini was an Arab.

Then imams should not be Ahl-e-Bayt as you are depending on Fatma (r.a) in this case, you should depend on the line of Ali and Abu Talib.

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Isn't the persian blood impuring the bloodline of imams because the father of Shehrbano was a fire worshipper?

Hey Quranist, why do you ignore Quran?

022.017

YUSUFALI: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for Allah is witness of all things.

There is clearly a distinction between polytheists and magians set forth by the Holy Quran.

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does it matter? If we're talking genes, islamicly, the line of siyyed is passed through the father's side. Khomeini was an Arab.

No of course it doesn't matter who his mother actually was. I read it might have infact been a slave from Sindh (modern Pakistan). Who it actually was is irrelivent.

But the point is, that having fairy tails in our traditions is very damaging. To give you an example of the consequences of these fairy tales, apparantly at the battle of Karbalah, Imam Hussein told the Persian Princess (his wife and mother of Zainul Abideen) to return to Persia because "you are not one of us". She returned to her homeland and she and her horse were swollowed up by the Earth. Now anyone with a slight understanding knows that an Imam would never say to a person "you are not one of us" on the basis of her race (which is what is implied by the fairy tale), let alone his wife and mother of his successor Imam, but that is a common story, and I bet there is some "shrine" in Iran on the spot where she was supposedly engulfed by the Earth.

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Also Persians have more reason to be proud in that every one of our Imams(as) after Imam Hussain(as) has some Persian origin. That is because Imam Hussain(as) married the Persian Lady Shahrbanu(as) and their(as) blessed son was the 4th Imam; Imam Ali ibn al-Hussain; Zayn al-Abidin(as).

I have to disagree with you on this part. One cannot be "proud" of things that has no achievement aspect to it, i.e. just because you are born into a particular group, then you are proud of it.

Additionally, from our religious (Shi'i) perspective, the Imams (as) are part of the Light of God, that were incarnated into human bodies, and viewed from that angle, tribalistic pride would seem feeble.

The Imams (as) were mixed Arab, Persian, Nubian, Roman, etc. and God knows how many different ethnic groupings, but our "pride" in them is not because of this but rather their position in the eyes of God.

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Then imams should not be Ahl-e-Bayt as you are depending on Fatma (r.a) in this case, you should depend on the line of Ali and Abu Talib.
The greatest of the Imams was Imam Ali (as) who isn't from Fatima (as). The case of Imam Hasan & Hussain (as) is the same for Nabi Isa (as) being from Maryam (as). And plus, Fatima (as) was an Arab, which still means, Khomeini is an Arab. And so are Sistani and Khoe'i and Khamana'i and Tabtaba'i and Shirazi and and and.

Bunch of filthy low life Arabs.

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Hey Quranist, why do you ignore Quran?

022.017

YUSUFALI: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for Allah is witness of all things.

There is clearly a distinction between polytheists and magians set forth by the Holy Quran.

Do you mean we will find out on the day of judgment whether the bloodline of infallible imams was pure or not since the advent of persian blood?

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But the point is, that having fairy tails in our traditions is very damaging. To give you an example of the consequences of these fairy tales, apparantly at the battle of Karbalah, Imam Hussein told the Persian Princess (his wife and mother of Zainul Abideen) to return to Persia because "you are not one of us". She returned to her homeland and she and her horse were swollowed up by the Earth. Now anyone with a slight understanding knows that an Imam would never say to a person "you are not one of us" on the basis of her race (which is what is implied by the fairy tale), let alone his wife and mother of his successor Imam, but that is a common story, and I bet there is some "shrine" in Iran on the spot where she was supposedly engulfed by the Earth.

:huh: what the hell? Source please ...

Bunch of filthy low life Arabs.

How are arabs involved here in this thread?

Do you mean we will find out on the day of judgment whether the bloodline of infallible imams was pure or not since the advent of persian blood?

Allah expects you to deny the rightful caliphate/imamate/kingdom of Talut of this era because as Allah puts it in Quran that most of the people will not accept the truth.

Edited by 12344321

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The greatest of the Imams was Imam Ali (as) who isn't from Fatima (as). The case of Imam Hasan & Hussain (as) is the same for Nabi Isa (as) being from Maryam (as). And plus, Fatima (as) was an Arab, which still means, Khomeini is an Arab. And so are Sistani and Khoe'i and Khamana'i and Tabtaba'i and Shirazi and and and.

Bunch of filthy low life Arabs.

But Ali became purified through his wife, Fatma (remember his being Ahl-e-bayt?).

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Do you mean we will find out on the day of judgment whether the bloodline of infallible imams was pure or not since the advent of persian blood?

Why do you keep using the word "pure"? There is no such thing as "Impure" blood. Please explain yourself.

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Imam Ali got purified through the verse of purification when he came under the 'kisa' of Prophet (pbuh) who was father of Ali's wife, Ali didn't get this purification through his own father Abu Talib, this is shia's own version of purification, not made up by me.

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Imam Ali got purified through the verse of purification when he came under the 'kisa' of Prophet (pbuh) who was father of Ali's wife, Ali didn't get this purification through his own father Abu Talib, this is shia's own version of purification, not made up by me.

He didn't get "purified" when he came under the 'kisa'. He was always pure, and existed thousands of years before the Creation of this world, as part of the Light of God.

The same belief is held by Sunnis, except they only believe this about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and not the Ahlul Bayt (as).

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He didn't get "purified" when he came under the 'kisa'. He was always pure, and existed thousands of years before the Creation of this world, as part of the Light of God.

The same belief is held by Sunnis, except they only believe this about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and not the Ahlul Bayt (as).

Then why the need of 'Ahl-e-bayt', why you argue with sunnis over this issue? Be happy with the purification millions of years ago.

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Isn't the persian blood impuring the bloodline of imams because the father of Shehrbano was a fire worshipper?

There you go with your "fire worshipper" garbage! Fire is a cermonial symbol in Zoroastrianism: meaning light i.e. Noor; so it's meant to be a symbol for closeness to God! It is a symbol when worshipping God in the Zoroastrian faith. Using your ignorant logic a Zoroastrian could easily counter againt you noumenon by calling you a "black box worshipper". Of course in Islam we don't worship the Holy Kaaba it's only a symbol; but if one is going to be ignorant and rude (as you apparently are to Zoroastrians) they could simply say "you bow facing that direction so you must worship it". It (fire for Zoroastrians) is again sybmolic just like our Holy Kaaba and the black stone, etc. are symbolic.

Edited by Abdul-Rahman Brent

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Then why the need of 'Ahl-e-bayt', why you argue with sunnis over this issue? Be happy with the purification millions of years ago.

Because they are part of the Light of God, and inseparable from the Prophet (pbuh).

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There you go with your "fire worshipper" garbage! Fire is a cermonial symbol in Zoroastrianism: meaning light i.e. Noor; so it's meant to be a symbol for closeness to God! It is a symbol when worshipping God in the Zoroastrian faith. Using your ignorant logic a Zoroastrian could easily counter againt you noumenon by calling you a "black box worshipper". Of course in Islam we don't worship the Holy Kaaba it's only a symbol; but if one is going to be ignorant and rude (as you apparently are to Zoroastrians) they could simply say "you bow facing that direction so you must worship it". It (fire for Zoroastrians) is again sybmolic just like our Holy Kaaba and the black stone, etc. are symbolic.

Does it mean it is halaal to marry their women?

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Then why the need of 'Ahl-e-bayt', why you argue with sunnis over this issue? Be happy with the purification millions of years ago

So that literalists and Quranists have no arguments left since now its permanently mentioned in Quran forever :D

Does it mean it is halaal to marry their women?

Its halal to slap a salafi.. or a fitnah-monger..

Edited by 12344321

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