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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Tableegh-e-Wilayat

Shia In Usa Amry

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to prevent other Shias from joining imperialist forces and justify it by their "good intentions"..His intentions might be good but his actions were bad..

What about the Pakistani army? Same actions, same front, same allies, same targets and same activities/same intentions?

Afghan army? Azerbaijani army? Turkish---many of them....

What is the rulings on those Muslims who join their countries' armies and then fight alongside imperialism?

Many of their armies are equipped for free in order to fight the local Muslims or to keep agreeing on recognizing Israel and bowing down to its demands.

Why it not forbidden to join the Egyptian, Paki, Turkish, Jordanian,...and...armies? And what about central Asian countries whose armies are run by Russian Mafias and safeguarded by them?

At least when you are in the US army you have to listen to one, and are independent. The Muslim ones must listen to 30+ countries orders and follow their leads,, especially nowadays when NATO is fighting.

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^

Let's see who is pissing on the corpse of this soldier who fell in this phony war on terror.

I would say it is the British and the French and the Saudis (and the stooge Karzai) who are all itching to talk to the Taliban and even install a friendly dictator so they can get the hell out of this hellhole.

Shias are in for another betrayal. Mark my words. The west cannot sustain this war.

Naqvi died in vain. Pure and simple.

In urdu his death would be labeled 'haram mott'

Edited by ShahLatif

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^

Let's see who is pissing on the corpse of this soldier who fell in this phony war on terror.

I would say it is the British and the French and the Saudis (and the stooge Karzai) who are all itching to talk to the Taliban and even install a friendly dictator so they can get the hell out of this hellhole.

Shias are in for another betrayal. Mark my words. The west cannot sustain this war.

Naqvi died in vain. Pure and simple.

In urdu his death would be labeled 'haram mott'

Let us not call it so, Shah bhai.

You can call it "halaakat ki maut" as opposed to "shahadat ki maut".

A "halaakat ki maut" may or may not be for a just cause but it isn't shahadat, of course.

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Let us not call it so, Shah bhai.

You can call it "halaakat ki maut" as opposed to "shahadat ki maut".

A "halaakat ki maut" may or may not be for a just cause but it isn't shahadat, of course.

a 'haram mott' is what you achieve when you are killed by oppressors while fighting for oppressors..

this war is NOT for Afghani people or the shias. Please get this illusion out of your head.

Edited by ShahLatif

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a 'haram mott' is what you achieve when you are killed by oppressors while fighting for oppressors..

this war is NOT for Afghani people or the shias. Please get this illusion out of your head.

Nah, I'm not doubting the basis on which this war was waged. I am trying to take the religious factor out of the death of this and other soldiers. A non-jihad worldly war may or may not be for a just/right cause and since it is not Jihad and the dead cannot have "shahaadat ki maut", so what they can have is a "halaakat ki maut", which again, can be either right or wrong. In the case of this young man, according to your opinion, it was a death for an unjust cause, hence "halaakat ki maut".

Edited by Jibran Haider

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As a former soldier in the US Army (before I was Muslim), I would definitely not recommend joining to anyone for any reason, even not considering the current tyranny of the Bush & Co regime. However, the young man did what he did, and the article says his intentions were for good. What benefit is there to think ill of him?

Agree, if you can, we should refrain in joining an oppressor's army.

Personally, I don't agree with the decision of the young man in joining the army & that's mainly because I don't know the reason behind it. As you can see, there's an ulama who leads the prayer, so I think maybe his reason was well understood by his community. Example: maybe he took a scholarship which obligated him to serve the army & if he refrained to do this, it would complicate himself & his family & also Islamic community as a whole.

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^

joining the Army does not mean you HAVE to go to war.

look up the term 'conscientious objector'.

he joined this immoral and pointless war of terror on terror. If he did it with the conviction he was doing something good, he was stupid and brainless. If he did it because he feared retribution for not objecting to it, he was being a coward.

Edited by ShahLatif

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Assalaamu Alaikumm,

Sorry to say this but it's not quite so simple as you make it out to be. Yes, the Taliban deserved to be taken out of power and fought as they were savages. But the Afghans are proud people, the majority don't like the occupation forces in their land and this is why it's doomed to fail.

I will also inform you that it's not only the Taliban fighting the occupation, there are groups that were with the Northern Alliance that supported the overthrowing of the Taliban who have no switched sides to fight the occupation due to the increasing attacks on civilians by occupation forces and with the corruption of the Central Government.

Herat itself no longer answers to the Central Government and enjoys huge support from their closest ally, Iran.

So it's far more complex than to say it's worth fighting.

There will never be a military solution for Afghanistan because their pride would not allow it. Had the US learnt from the Soviets who should have learnt from the British who should have learned from the Greeks they'd have understood that this land is not one you can occupy and you can not pacify the Afghans.

A political solution is needed and Afghans need education regarding Islam and it will be a slow process. In the mean time the Hazara should build their forces to be strong and prepare to protect themselves and fight once the occupation forces leave then engage in finding a political solution for the problems Afghanistan has, I think you'll find that the Taliban in general have changed somewhat and perhaps this war is what was needed to make them realize they didn't have the peoples support so they are changing their policies.

Massalaama,

Adonis

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^agreed!

This war on terror became a farce the moment G dubya decided to invade Iraq.

Anyone who joined this war from that point onwards was a stupid tool.

Edited by ShahLatif

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I think the notion that terrorism and extremism can be defeated with force by an occupier is ridiculous.

War is the worst thing you can do because it only rallies people to their cause. Counter guerrilla and counter insurgency warfare are impossible to win if you are behaving the way the West seems to.

I wish I could slap them all in the head and show them how stupid they are really being.

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Can sum mod close this thread plz... some of the posts on this thread are so disrespectful!!!

Ya'll can disagree with his decision.... but for god sake, dont mock a dead person !!!!

give him the benefit of doubt and let Allah be the judge !

it is not like u always make the right choices..

WS

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Can sum mod close this thread plz... some of the posts on this thread are so disrespectful!!!

Ya'll can disagree with his decision.... but for god sake, dont mock a dead person !!!!

give him the benefit of doubt and let Allah be the judge !

it is not like u always make the right choices..

WS

Let's see if you take that stance the next time a thread is opened about members of the Taliban being killed in Afghanistan.

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iA Pakistani military will continue killing as many Talibans as possible; those Talibans who are blowing up schools, hospitals and, other government buildings inside pakistan. They deserve to be killed.

They may have good intentions. They may think they're doing the right thing.

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It was Imam Hussein who said:

Do you not see how righteousness is not enjoined, and evilness is not forbidden, so that the Believers may strive in pleasing their Lord? Verily, I do not see death as anything but happiness, and life amongst oppressors as anything but destitute.

Edited by Learned

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he is still better than u... how? well, go figure!

What a childish little roast you are.

Skylight1 and undercoverbrother have it right.

First thing i thought when i saw this was 'the nawasib are going to have an absolute field day with the pictures'. Propaganda own goals are our specialty.

I can see it now, 'ma hum bi ummati ahmadi' playing in the background:

"Here we see the rawafidh mourning their filthy soldier who fell in the cause of the mushrik crusaders, in one of their magi temples".

And for once they will be right.

American muslims (both sunni and shia) are more house than hugh laurie. I was living there for 7 months and the place has a magical affect on people. Its like they put something in the water that makes monotheists proudly pledge their allegiance to pagans.

May Allah (swt) judge his intentions. I am more worried about the innocent shia mumins who will be blown up by some nasibi dog who sees this and is pushed to fight us.

Lots of hypocracy on this here board. when the nawasib do it we rightfully hate them, but when the shia do it we all make excuses. I used make excuses for those [Edited Out]s in the green zone but no more. let us all agree to call a spade a spade and a traitor a traitor.

Cant wait for the provincial elections and the sadrists to clean up iraq InshAllah!

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(salam)

I'd like to reiterate what Br Dan Rafi said, and that is, let us respect the dead. We do not have to agree with the decision that we made; we disagree with many people who have lived before us. However, we should use polite language when we discuss him. If we condemn his decision to join the army, let's do it in a way that is respectful, not rude.

Also, please remember to use publicly appropriate language that demonstrates good akhlaq while online here.

Additionally, no personal attacks please.

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(salam)

I'd like to reiterate what Br Dan Rafi said, and that is, let us respect the dead.

you mean the dead on either side? cuz I think that is the point being made lately.

Edited by ShahLatif

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Assalaamu Alaikumm,

Sorry to say this but it's not quite so simple as you make it out to be. Yes, the Taliban deserved to be taken out of power and fought as they were savages. But the Afghans are proud people, the majority don't like the occupation forces in their land and this is why it's doomed to fail.

I will also inform you that it's not only the Taliban fighting the occupation, there are groups that were with the Northern Alliance that supported the overthrowing of the Taliban who have no switched sides to fight the occupation due to the increasing attacks on civilians by occupation forces and with the corruption of the Central Government.

Herat itself no longer answers to the Central Government and enjoys huge support from their closest ally, Iran.

So it's far more complex than to say it's worth fighting.

There will never be a military solution for Afghanistan because their pride would not allow it. Had the US learnt from the Soviets who should have learnt from the British who should have learned from the Greeks they'd have understood that this land is not one you can occupy and you can not pacify the Afghans.

A political solution is needed and Afghans need education regarding Islam and it will be a slow process. In the mean time the Hazara should build their forces to be strong and prepare to protect themselves and fight once the occupation forces leave then engage in finding a political solution for the problems Afghanistan has, I think you'll find that the Taliban in general have changed somewhat and perhaps this war is what was needed to make them realize they didn't have the peoples support so they are changing their policies.

Massalaama,

Adonis

Adonis, I suggest you speak to Hazaras in Melbourne on their view of the occupation if you think ALL Afghans oppose it. I assure you, from speaking to Hazaras in Dandenong, that it is not the case.

You're right though that it is more complex than just assuming that it is solely the Taliban attacking the occupational forces, but not a single Hazara to date has attacked them.

the dude fought for America, died for America, and his coffin was covered in an American flag ... enuff said.

Yet you still live in America, shamelessly reaping the benefits your American hosts provide you with while advocating the destruction of the country.

Enough said of your hypocrisy. No wonder why Americans hate Muslims.

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May Allah bless Mohsin Naqi............But he was fighting for the wrong people..........!!!!! I am surprised Can Shias join The military of the 'Greater Satan'...the ones famous for killing innocent muslims around the world...very wrong..I personally know a person who worked for US government in Washington left the job in protest against the American war against Iraq he was not a shia.

Non-Shia showed a sense of hatred for the US goernment why not............!!!!!

Edited by rambo007

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Yet you still live in America, shamelessly reaping the benefits your American hosts provide you with while advocating the destruction of the country.

There is an absolute world of a difference between fighting an imperialist war for a country, and living in that country.

"Reaping the benefits" - you sould like Bill O'Reilly.

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There is an absolute world of a difference between fighting an imperialist war for a country, and living in that country.

"Reaping the benefits" - you sould like Bill O'Reilly.

I don't go around hating a country that I live in, and unfortunately many Muslims are guilty of it.

There are even a minority of US Muslims who endorse the views of al-Qaeda yet still live there. How's that for hypocrisy?

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I don't go around hating a country that I live in, and unfortunately many Muslims are guilty of it.

Nobody here to my knowledge has voiced any hatred towards the US or it's people - the problem is with US servicemen in Iraq, Afghanistan and all over the world occupying other sovereign nations. This man actively, consciously and willingly took part in the invasion of a defenseless country in which the population were of the same faith as him. What we are arguing is that people on this site - the Shia on this site - view this man just as they would any other soldier who is currently occupying sovereign lands - be they Muslim, Christian or whoever. There are many that want to make excuses for him on purely emotive grounds - yet are unwilling to do so for 'Wahhabis', Israeli-Arab collaborators or Baathists.

There are even a minority of US Muslims who endorse the views of al-Qaeda yet still live there. How's that for hypocrisy?

I agree - they're hypocrites. But theres a difference between condemning the country that you live in - something that has been advocated in our religion since it's birth - and downright biting the hand that feeds you. I can understand in a system like the UK where there is a welfare-system of some sort to abuse - but how can someone "reap the benefits" of dog-eat-dog capitalism in the US, with a welfare-state so miniscule that it's surpassed by many nations with but a fraction of it's GDP? Do these same people that support Al-Qaeda play the stock market aswell - do they pocket shareholder profits? What "benefits" do these Al-Qaeda supporters take advantage of?

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May he rest in peace.

Personally, I would rather have the US military comprised of Muslims than non-Muslims. In fact, there are an estimated 10,000 Muslims in the US military. And I bet every single one of them is thinking of how to save Muslim lives in this war and not how to target them. They are the translators that prevent misunderstandings between soldiers and foreign civilians or translate intelligence about where the next car bomb may be right next to a mosque, or the chaplains that tend to not only dawa in the military community but to the surrounding community as well, or educators that can dispel the common American misconceptions about Islam.

I've met Muslims in the military (some who became Muslim because they had a chance to interact with the Islamic world due to the military) and none of them have a burning urge to "work for the great satan against Islam." Their intention is to change the system for the good from within, to save lives, and to combat ignorance.

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though his intention cannot be judged, but indeed its apparent that his made a mistake. if his intention were for Allah, then I hope and pray he is rewarded for his effort.

Edited by RezaAbideen

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