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In the Name of God بسم الله

We Shouldn't Label Ourselves As "sunni" Or "shia&qu

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What is the best way to achieve unity amongst the Muslims? A good start is to stop fueling sects by saying that you are "Sunni" or "Shia" or "Salafi" or "Sufi", etc etc

3:103 in the Quran clearly says to not be divided.

6:159 in the Quran clearly says that anyone who creates division in Islam has nothing to do with Allah.

Making sects in Islam is clearly haraam

And being a part of such sects helps fuel them and may even be considered haraam, depending on how far you take it

That's like being a brewer, despite alcohol is haraam.

What do you all think of this topic?

Please don't think I am a member that will post one topic to cause trouble then leave. I love reading the posts of this forum, because they seem to be refreshingly free of the wahabi corruption that plagues many other online Islamic communities

Peace be upon you all.

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You are completely right to a certain point. When the Khawarij deviated from the ummah of Islam, then who was the Muslim? If a Khawarij called himself a Muslim but rebelled, then what was he? How would we know who is who? That is the reason for the "Ahlus Sunnah wal Jammah."

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You are completely right to a certain point. When the Khawarij deviated from the ummah of Islam, then who was the Muslim? If a Khawarij called himself a Muslim but rebelled, then what was he? How would we know who is who? That is the reason for the "Ahlus Sunnah wal Jammah."

A name that came after a looong time and was used to imply "bigger is better" which isn't necessarily true.

But yeah, I just say I'm muslim when someone asks.

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I don't think there's anything wrong with calling ourselves shia. Allah even described in the Holy Qur'an (Surah Saaffat) about literally "shia" of Nabi Ibrahim (as), as well as another prophet, I think either Nabi Nuh (as) or Nabi Musa (as). It simply means the followers of that person or whatever it is. Not trying to create division, even Rasullallah (as) said "Ya Ali, verily you and your shia will be among the inhabitors of paradise".

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That is the reason for the "Ahlus Sunnah wal Jammah."

you have divided yourself into the sect that follows sunnah and has formed a jamaah on that premise. What if someone starts a sect that follows Quran and calls itself Ahlul Quran wal Jamaah? Quranists do exist.

Wasalaam.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

The muslim ummah is too big for everyone to agree on everything and so people have been catagorised according to their beliefs. However somewhere along the way it has been forgotten that we are all part of the same ummah.

If any person from another religion came to us with the beliefs of any of the other islamic sects we would call them our brothers. We might not entirely agree with them on everything but they would be closer to us than any other faith. Their belief in God would please us and their support for islam and muslims would encourage us.

However we cannot have that outlook among ourselves. In the meantime Islam is being attacked on all sides and we cant do a thing about it because our view is too small even to unite against a common enemy and leave our differences to mature discussion.

Therefore i say that there is nothing wrong with naming sects as differences in belief are natural, we just must all be mature enough not to let that get in the way of things that danger Islam and muslims.

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I think it is necessary for people to identify the path they are on. I dont think its wise to quote ayas from the Quran and give your own tafsir on them. You must be careful with that. The verse you picked has a context and we must see the context before we start to give tafsir.

wabillahi tawfiq.

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I don't think there's anything wrong with calling ourselves shia. Allah even described in the Holy Qur'an (Surah Saaffat) about literally "shia" of Nabi Ibrahim (as), as well as another prophet, I think either Nabi Nuh (as) or Nabi Musa (as). It simply means the followers of that person or whatever it is. Not trying to create division, even Rasullallah (as) said "Ya Ali, verily you and your shia will be among the inhabitors of paradise".

100% agreed... the other prophet was Hazrat Musa (as) in surah Baqra, there is a story that wen Hazrat Musa (as) entered in a city he (as) saw that two persons are fighting with each other. One was "SHIA OF THE MOSA".

And moreover when a non-Muslim ask that who are you then you can say "I am Muslim". But remember that there is a huge difference between "Muslim" & "Momin". Why Allah (azzawajal) didnt send the Surah "MUSLIMOON"??? why he said to his holy prophet "O Muhammad (SAW) yeh peth pechy tumhen bura bala kehty hen aor inhon nay sirf aopri dil say islam qabool kia hai".

aor inhee jesy logon k liay surah "MUNAFIQON" nazil hoi hai.... because remember my dear brothers n sister .... k ... jesay Muslim hony k liay Kalma parhna lazmi hai usi tarh Munafiq hony k liay b kalma parhna lazmi hai... to kesay pata chaly ga k kalma parh k koi Muslim howa hai ya Munafiq?.... pas Muslim but Momin he Allah aor US k RASOOL (SAW) aor AHL-E-BYT ki nazar mein mehboob hai.

ILTIMAS-E-DUA

Edited by YaZahraa`
Edited font.
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you have divided yourself into the sect that follows sunnah and has formed a jamaah on that premise. What if someone starts a sect that follows Quran and calls itself Ahlul Quran wal Jamaah? Quranists do exist.

Wasalaam.

hello there, first of all we never named ourselves quranists, ppl named us, and i ALWAYS tell them "never give me a sect name there is enough sects out there we do not need another one" , second, everyone who knows me here knows that i go by muslima mo2mina, and i will NOT and forbid myself of giving myself a sect name because as he said in the beginning god is not of those who divide.i definitely want my god, especailly in this devilish world.

my duty in life as a muslima mo2mina is to try to unite not just the muslims but all those who have faith as one ibrahim was a muslim he was the one who named us muslimin and since he is the father not literally but religiously, of moses and jesus and mohamad means that they were all muslims and that my friends you will find in the quran. if you look at the word itself it means to surrender or submit your soul to god and i beleive for the chritians and jewish ppl who are true to god are in there own way muslims for they have submitted themselves to god and they are of the faithful and we must unite as a ppl of faith, as for shia and sunna, ever heard of the movie NEVERENDING STORY looooooooool god love you all

maybe we should start looking at the similiarites and stopping bashing each other with the differences. look at the positives and not the negatives. even a good muslim or mo2min can always turn negatives to positives, always try to be a perfectionist in gods eye you cant go wrong, dont matter what religion or sect, if you try to please god, youll always be in the right.

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hello there, first of all we never named ourselves quranists, ppl named us, and i ALWAYS tell them "never give me a sect name there is enough sects out there we do not need another one"

You do deny hadiths outright so that makes you a Quranist.

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What is the best way to achieve unity amongst the Muslims? A good start is to stop fueling sects by saying that you are "Sunni" or "Shia" or "Salafi" or "Sufi", etc etc

assalamu `alaykum

I think that his is an overly simplistic approach to Islam today. We are now to the point where some of us fold our hands in salat while others among us consider it as haram and an invalidator of salat, where some of us say "amin" after Surah Fatihah while others among us consider it as haram and an invalidator of salat, where some of us consider the fast to be haqq if one enters the tim for fajr while yet in janabat without ghusl, while others among us consider that as a invalidator of the fast, where some of us consider it required to do tawaf an-nisa as part of hajj while others among us do not, etc. Some of us consider as required the belief that Imam `Ali was the rightful successor of Prophet Muhammad and that he is higher in rank than other companions of Porhet Muhammad; others consider Abu Bakr to be the rightful successor and the highest ranking among the companionss of Prophet Muhammad. Most of us consider it haram to interpret literally any passage that would imply body parts for Allah, while others consider it haram t interpret such passages allegorically. Most of us acknowledge the permissibility of intercession, while others consider it to be shirk. Most of us consider taqlid to be required; some of us think it to be haram.

Sectarian differences exist among the Muslims today as an existential fact. No amount of wishful thinking or whimsical slogans will change that fact. We cannot be expected to come together as one jama`ah and worship thus regularly. We cannot be expected to read and accept each other's texts. We cannot be expected to follow the rulings of each other's scholars. We cannot turn a blind eye to that which makes some of us Shia, some of us Sunni, some of us Salafi, etc.

Rather than insisting on pretending that we are united in belief and practise, we should rather attempt a unity of goal - a more political kind of unity. We can come together on those occasions which make it possible for us to come together and speak with one voice to those who oppose us collectively. We can condemn those who would sully our name and religion. We can make common efforts in union to promote a common understanding and tolerance or to establish institutions or projects that would benefit all Muslims collectively.

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you have divided yourself into the sect that follows sunnah and has formed a jamaah on that premise. What if someone starts a sect that follows Quran and calls itself Ahlul Quran wal Jamaah? Quranists do exist.

Wasalaam.

I do think that there are lines that need to be drawn; and this is one of them. Qur'aniyun are not Muslims.

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I do think that there are lines that need to be drawn; and this is one of them. Qur'aniyun are not Muslims.

1 They believe in ONE GOD

2 They believe in FINALITY OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD (pbuh)

That makes them muslims.

19ers deny the integrity of Quran by removing few verses to complete their 19 number formula but the Quranists do not.

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1 They believe in ONE GOD

2 They believe in FINALITY OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD (pbuh)

That makes them muslims.

19ers deny the integrity of Quran by removing few verses to complete their 19 number formula but the Quranists do not.

My apologies. I had been equating the two of them.

I know that the belief of Sunni Islam is that one who denies the Sunnah as a Shari`ah source has essentially denied Prophet Muhammad and is therefore not a Muslim. I do not know the position of SHiah Islam on this yet.

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Salam to all,

æóÇÚúÊóÕöãõæÇú ÈöÍóÈúáö Çááøåö ÌóãöíÚðÇ æóáÇó ÊóÝóÑøóÞõæÇú

[Yusufali 3:103] And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you),

Qur'an is very clear on how the unity should be. Hold fast to the rope of Allah swt.

Let all the muslims get the clear definition on "the rope of Allah swt" and let us unite and hold on to it. Then we will have the unity.

Why are many muslims are blinded to the message from Qur'an?

Layman

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(salam)

I agree that we should not be labeled or labeled someone using racist and bad labeled...e.g "jerk", "some racist name"..etc

But I don't see what is disgraceful with the label "Shia" or "Sunni" or using your nationality..such as Najafi, Seestani, Bahgdadi., lebanese, Iraqi..etc

It is to describe some specific part of someone. It's not something bad or racist.

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SENIOR VICE-PRESIDENT of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) Dr Kalbe Sadiq at Lucknow did the Eid namaz after Sunni Imam two days back just to strengthen Shia-Sunni relations by giving a very logical point when we can do Haj prayer after Sunni Imam why not Eid prayers!

I feel this kind of efforts will reduce the hate between us. If in our daily life we can smile, if we can be peaceful and happy, not only we, but everyone will profit from it. This is the most basic kind of peace work done by Dr. Sadiq.

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Salaam

Ya Ali Madad

I personally believe that we must call ourselves Shia or Sunni. If we come under one bracket then that means that in one group we have some people believing in Ahlul Bayt where as others will be believing in the ones who are to blame for the torture and harships that the Ahlul Bayt faced.

When the Quran talks about unity it is talking about unity between TRUE believers. Instead of trying to create unity between shias and sunnis we should try and make sure that sects do not emerge in our own Shia sect.

Wassalam

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Salaam

Ya Ali Madad

I personally believe that we must call ourselves Shia or Sunni. If we come under one bracket then that means that in one group we have some people believing in Ahlul Bayt where as others will be believing in the ones who are to blame for the torture and harships that the Ahlul Bayt faced.

When the Quran talks about unity it is talking about unity between TRUE believers. Instead of trying to create unity between shias and sunnis we should try and make sure that sects do not emerge in our own Shia sect.

Wassalam

So much for that idea.

Yes we do need unity between Sunnis and Shi'a - to attain that we must acknowledge each other as brothers and stop calling each other names (Rafidha and Nawasibs <-- these two words are flung around much too lightly)

Call yourself Sunni. Call yourself Shi'i. It's all under the umbrella of Islam and being a Muslim.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Hello guys and girls? One thing astounds me everytime I come to this site and read peoples posts and how much people over rely on hadith and Quran and I feel that people are only and not actually understand what they are writing about. every one posts prophet said this and imam said this and that and they all lack a sense of deep contemplation on the topic. There two type of schalors, those who memories ed alot of books and those memorised less but understand what they know.

And how this connect to this topic is simple. I had an sunni friend who was very friendly with me once he he asked me whether I was Shia or Sunni. well i said shia and he smilingly said to me "oh you the one that say gabriel made a mistake with Vahii and gave it to Ali AS". It was like someone spat at my face even thou I have heard this stupid criticism it was really stupid. So you want me to call a person who does not even have a basic idea of what I believe a BROTHER. Well let us say I call him a brother and he calls me a brother (for unity's sake and ulama in modern era want), this relationship is an illusion that can break apart at any moment and prove to be catastrophic.

I believe one thing always come before unity and that is UNDERSTANDING, and not just knowing the basic principles but an in depth knowledge. I want to encourage my fellow Muslims before solving a religious question alway try to contemplate one the question first without think about the tradition to form a personal opinion and the take into account the tradition you already know so you get to understand them more and at the end go to books and other sources and see what you thought is true or not and if true you can feel proud that you thought of a solution by yourself and if you were false find out the reason while and when that answer does not satisfy you continue hold on to your view and at the same time look deeper for answers.

When people ask me about my religion I always say Muslim because I can't be bother saying shia because they might me the difference i get bored of explaining the whole thing. :!!!:

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I do not understand this kind of questions. I do not even consider Twelver Shiism to be a sect. The word "sect" is viable when talking about Christianity but not Islam. Because there is only one christianity lived differently by the various sects. However, in the case of Islam, in my opinion it is way more complicated.

We of course do agree on some points with the Sunnis. But our beliefs, our school of thought, our history, our traditions and our practice differ significantly. It is easy to talk about unity. But in my case, I refuse to be associated with the Sunni muslims. I have nothing against them but I am just NOT a Sunni muslim. And when you introduce yourself by saying you're Muslim only, people assume that you're part of mainstream Islam.

There is nothing wrong with confirming one's specificity. On the opposite, I consider it to be a duty for me to spread awareness about Shia Islam. For instance, many foreign students come to study at my university, and I always try to explain to them about our beliefs, scholars and traditions. To say the least, they are always more intriguided with Shia Islam than with mainstream Islam.

When you are a minority, you do not have the privilege of "playing unity" because in this kind of unity you're preaching, the specific entity you form disappears. Diversity is a richness, not a threat. If Sunnis consider it to be a threat (check youtube shia videos and see how at least one sunni comments with endless insults - without being asked for his opinion!), our Shia brothers have the duty to bring it out to the world, with pride.

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What is the best way to achieve unity amongst the Muslims? A good start is to stop fueling sects by saying that you are "Sunni" or "Shia" or "Salafi" or "Sufi", etc etc

3:103 in the Quran clearly says to not be divided.

6:159 in the Quran clearly says that anyone who creates division in Islam has nothing to do with Allah.

Brother to answer this question unity must be divided into 2 parts:

1-unity in political, social... aspects.

2-unity in beliefs.

political and social unity should not be mistaken with unity in belief.

Unity in political and social aspects can easily be obtained, i will not elaborate on this.

Unity in beliefs is not achievable unless the correct belief in all aspects of islam is shown and everyone abides by it. History has shown that even if the the truth is shown clearer and brighter than the sun there will always be people who stick with it and there will always be people who oppose it. These differences in beliefs will always exist until imam Mahdi comes (plz pray for his arrival).

We should NOT to put aside our beliefs in the name and for the sake of unity.

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The word "sect" is viable when talking about Christianity but not Islam.

While there are significant schisms in Christianity, none of them are labelled "sects." Most are labelled "url=http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/denomination]denominations." When I went from being a Baptist to a Catholic, I said that I had joined the Catholic church, not that I had switched sects. In fact, not even scholars use the term "sect" when referring to the divisions in Christianity. This does not indicate that deep divisions do not exist in Christianity, just that the word "sect" has not been used to describe those divisions.

We of course do agree on some points with the Sunnis. But our beliefs, our school of thought, our history, our traditions and our practice differ significantly.

Actually, most of our beliefs and practises are the same; and we share the same perspective for a significant part of Islamic history - significant because of the import that it has to the devlopment of the basic Islamic beiefs and practises. Both Shia and Sunni Muslims believe in Allah. We both believe in His Oneness. We both have lists of 99 famous attributes of Allah. We both believe in Prophethood. We share the same Prophets in our traditions; and we both affirm the finality of Prophethood with Prophet Muhammad. We assert the sinlessness of the Prophets and the superiority of Prophet Muhammad over the entirety of the rest of creation. We both believe in the Hereafter, the Resurrection, Judgement Day, Paradise and Hellfire, and intercession. We both believe that salat, siyyam, zakat, and hajj are required. Sunni Muslims even affirm other required practises that we hold as furu ad-din. They acknowledge the existence of Imams, even though their definition of an Imam is different from our own; and they believe in a system of Islamic leadership after Prophet Muhammad. I think that Shia and Sunni Islam have much in common.

It concerns me to see so much fitnah spread under the guise of maintaining our identity. I think that it is possible for us to maintain our identity while keeping good relations with our Muslim brothers and sisters. I already know the effects of a family not associating with people who do not believe and act exactly was one does. It breeds extremism. I feel that extremism is an expression of one's lack of certainty in his beliefs not a certainty in one's beliefs.

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While there are significant schisms in Christianity, none of them are labelled "sects." Most are labelled "url=http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/denomination]denominations." When I went from being a Baptist to a Catholic, I said that I had joined the Catholic church, not that I had switched sects. In fact, not even scholars use the term "sect" when referring to the divisions in Christianity. This does not indicate that deep divisions do not exist in Christianity, just that the word "sect" has not been used to describe those divisions.

Thank you for this clarification. What I actually meant by the word "sect" is "denomination" - a denomination being one of the "recognized branches of a religion" (askoxford.com).

This is why you misunderstood my point of view. I do not consider Shiisim to be a mere branch of Islam. On the contrary, I see it as a version of Islam. Because if Islam is the best religion there is, its division into branches would not make sense to me.

Actually, most of our beliefs and practises are the same; and we share the same perspective for a significant part of Islamic history - significant because of the import that it has to the devlopment of the basic Islamic beiefs and practises. Both Shia and Sunni Muslims believe in Allah. We both believe in His Oneness. We both have lists of 99 famous attributes of Allah. We both believe in Prophethood. We share the same Prophets in our traditions; and we both affirm the finality of Prophethood with Prophet Muhammad. We assert the sinlessness of the Prophets and the superiority of Prophet Muhammad over the entirety of the rest of creation. We both believe in the Hereafter, the Resurrection, Judgement Day, Paradise and Hellfire, and intercession. We both believe that salat, siyyam, zakat, and hajj are required. Sunni Muslims even affirm other required practises that we hold as furu ad-din. They acknowledge the existence of Imams, even though their definition of an Imam is different from our own; and they believe in a system of Islamic leadership after Prophet Muhammad. I think that Shia and Sunni Islam have much in common.

Everything you mentionned is correct. However, in my opinion, all the other aspects and beliefs that you omitted are the fundamentals that make Islam complete.

It concerns me to see so much fitnah spread under the guise of maintaining our identity. I think that it is possible for us to maintain our identity while keeping good relations with our Muslim brothers and sisters. I already know the effects of a family not associating with people who do not believe and act exactly was one does. It breeds extremism. I feel that extremism is an expression of one's lack of certainty in his beliefs not a certainty in one's beliefs.

Why do you automatically associate diversity with fitna? I think this is a medieval way of thinking.

Claiming overtly that one is a Shia Muslim is neither a declaration of war against other Muslims, nor a form of extremism. I do not see how you came to such conclusions. Although I do agree with your definition of extremism, I do not think it's relevant in this respect.

Salam

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assalamu `alaykum

Actually, we agree on more than what I originally though.

I do not consider Shiisim to be a mere branch of Islam. On the contrary, I see it as a version of Islam. Because if Islam is the best religion there is, its division into branches would not make sense to me.

While the fact that divisions exist in Islam does not bother me, I do find your use of the wor "version" intriguing; it makes sense to me, as well.

Claiming overtly that one is a Shia Muslim is neither a declaration of war against other Muslims, nor a form of extremism.

I also agree with you here.

Barakallahu bikum, wassalam.

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We assert the sinlessness of the Prophets

That is not true.

The Sunni scholars do not speak in one voice on this subject. Some Sunnis claim that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) is sinless or infallible ONLY in the delivery of Allah's message. Other than that, he (PBUH&HF), just like others, sins and makes mistakes in many things.

This faction of Sunnis base their opinion on the traditions narrated in their books about how the Prophet (PBUH&HF) falls asleep and forgets the prayer time, and even forgets to perform the necessary ablution (Wudu) for prayer (Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic version, v1, p37,44,171). Furthermore, they claim that he (PBUH&HF) used to sit with Aisha and watch a dance with music (Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic version, v3, p228). They also claim that he (PBUH&HF) was affected by a magical spell that caused severe episodes of hallucination on his part (Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic version, v7, p29; and v4, p68). These are but a FEW of the most heinous of acts that these "scholars" attribute to the Mercy to Mankind, the Messenger of Allah, Muhammad (PBUH&HF).

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter1b/2.html

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We assert the sinlessness of the Prophets
That is not true.

The Sunni scholars do not speak in one voice on this subject. Some Sunnis claim that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) is sinless or infallible ONLY in the delivery of Allah's message. Other than that, he (PBUH&HF), just like others, sins and makes mistakes in many things. ...

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter1b/2.html

assalamu `alaykum wa rahmatillah

I am a Shia Muslim. "We" most certainly do assert the sinlessness of the Prophets.

The vast majority of the `ulama of the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama`ah also assert the sinlessness of the Prophets [Qadi `Iyad's Shifa`]. Most Shia books that make claims about Sunni beliefs and practises are widely off the mark. This is why I check with scholarly texts or rulings from traditional Sunni `ulama, or ask learned (when possible) traditional Sunni Muslims about their beliefs and practises.

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(salam)

Just changing our label to something else like "Muslim No Sect" is not going to fix the real problem in the muslim community.

There is an historical aspect to this problem regardless if you call yourself Sunni or Shia. I know it is unfortunate that we have this division but we have to live with it. I don't see the Sunni ever going to accept that Ali(as) was the successor of the Holy Prophet(sa). And I don't think the Shia will ever accept the Sunni view-point about their caliphs.

My belief is that people will always be labeled something as long as they accept one view point and rejected another.

Edited by Zareen
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I have never believed that we are so devided but it is a healthy sign to speak out our minds.

I was born in a sunni community in Tunisia and we were taught from childhood to adore Sahabah and to belittle Immam Ali (pbuh)'s role.

I lately discovered his merits and I'm sorry for every day I lived without his love in my heart.

My point is : KEEP ON CALLING YOURSELVES SHIA AND SUNNA that will encourage people to ask about the difference (as I did) and enshallah they will recognise the right path,, the path of Ahlul Bayt (PBUT).

There is nothing wrong is speaking out the differences it allows more people to make the right choice. If we start saying that everything is ok and that we are all good then nobody will care about adjusting his religion and correcting his faith. Every shi' person is responsible of making his faith public and of explaining it to everyone especially to our brothers from other schools. We are all Du'at to Allah's right path and we don't need to be scholars to say this is right and thins is wrong. We must all recognize our responsibilities and stop blaming our failure on the others. I am shi'i today and I proudly made that choice and I hope that more and more Muslims will recognize the beauty of Iman.

Wassalam.

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I come from a Sunni family and after researchin of Shiism i am more of a Shia now.. but due to my family i cannot convert now.. I will Inshallah when i ll settle down and will be responsible for my actions.. I agree with Zahraa85.. u need to research on both the sects n think about it and the one u find right u can follow that path because both lead to Allah's Raza..

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