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Marijuana Smoke

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There is this guy i know who likes to smoke marijuana, he is a practising shia muslim, prays etc...now he started the habit on the pretext that it was halal, and that men known as malungs(in his culture) smoke it and often mourn the marydom of Imam Hussein (a.s)/celebrate the bith of Imam Ali (a.s) on marijuana. Now his argument is that it is just a plant, it isn't a man made/chemical intoxicant. Secondly he doesn't get intoxicated whilst ''high'' the reason behind him smoking it is because it relaxes him in the same way cigarettes relax others. And to be honest, having been around him under the influence nobody notices any difference if he has smoked it or not,he remains perfectly in control of himself and his senses(if not more so!!!)

My argument is that any form of intoxicant is haraam, and just becuse he doesn't get affected mentally by smoking it, the same can be said of alcohol drinker who only have a 4 sips of an alcoholic beverage(the argument being it is still haraam) and remains in his senses. He refuses to accept that it is an intoxicant because he remains perfectly in control of himself, and prefers to call it a relaxant, it is evident that he is the same guy on or off it, but it cant be right....surely? he argues that anti-depressants are more intoxicating than the effect marijuana has on him.

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From what I have read from Imam Khamenei (as), it is haram because it is an intoxicant that can change your state of mind and perception of things. It can cause you to hallucinate or something. Anything like this is haram. Also tell him to talk to a sheikh. He doesn't have to confess that he himself smokes it, but tell him to ask a scholar.

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so can anti-depressants(change your state of mind and perception of things around you), the guy is honestly that same guy, he gets a little lazier, but mentally he is the same. i guess some people feel the effects more than others. its difficult to argue because its impossible to claim he is any way mentaly intoxicated

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so can anti-depressants(change your state of mind and perception of things around you), the guy is honestly that same guy, he gets a little lazier, but mentally he is the same. i guess some people feel the effects more than others. its difficult to argue because its impossible to claim he is any way mentaly intoxicated

It doesn't matter if it does or not, it still has the ability to, and it's almost entirely used just for that purpose. But anti-depressants are for an illness, in which case most scholars rule that it's ok if it is to help you or help cure your illness or whatever the case may be...

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I agree...it is so hard to define these phrases pot heads use "altered state of mind" ...what does that mean? How does one define his current state of mind? Marijuana causes your senses to be jumbled up so one "feel" a heightened sense of being when in fact many car accidents are caused by people smoking while getting high...think about that now.

Also, Marijuana causes paranoia and unnatural fear of unknown whilst Islam teaches we should only fear and love AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì

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Also remember that just because the marijuana doesn't 'affect' him (so he says), doesn't make it halal. There are people who can handle alcohol just fine and don't get drunk at all, yet since many people do fall under the intoxicating effects of alcohol and drugs, God wisely prohibited all of it - prevention is much better than picking up the pieces afterward.

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Cannabis is scientifically proven to help you focus better. Even the potheads at my school used to tell me this. They never showed up once to class and still achieve high 70's and 80's and I'm like, "how the hell do you do it :huh:?", they nod to me once, and repeat a 4 letter syllable, "WEED."

So, it may have it's negative effects, but if taken appropriately and in small doses it could really be effective for patients with ADHD or people who have trouble focusing. Ritalin isn't as effective as weed 212_animated_person_smoking_a_cigarette.gif.

Edited by Kaka Sahib

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Salaam allaikum,

Weed in the general sense does intoxicate people. It doesn't matter what specific people say because we've all seen enough crazy potheads in hs to know others. Anyone whose lived in the western society (or eastern for that matter) knows that marijuana intoxicates and makes people do crazy things.

Just like alcohol some people (a smaller minority) may not be affected as much but that does not change the islamic ban on intoxicants. The ban is of a general nature; this means that if something intoxicate 9 out of 10 people who use it then irregardless of that 1 person it still is Haram. This because it harms the vast majority of people.

Laws are made to protect the general populace; not to cater to the odd 1% who may not be harmed. Also the initial use or a few uses may not show the true extent of its power on you. The children of Alcoholics are actually known to be less effected by alcohol use, yet they have a higher chance to becoming alcoholics themselves. It may seem like a paradox but that is what studies have shown. So the initial effect or level of intoxication isn't a good measure of the harm or benefit of an object. At the end of the day its proven again and again the one who created us truly knows best.

And lastly for the poster above i would recommend that you don't encourage the use of weed. By the way you worded your post it seems like you are trying to get others to use it on the pretext that its not really harmful. Imagine if this is haram (and it is according to all marjas) and your words effect people to use it. You really don't want that on your shoulders bro.

Edited by seyedmusawi

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It can cause you to hallucinate or something.
*snicker* Dude, it does not make you hallucinate. Have you been watching Reefer Madness or something? Good heavens.

Actually, while marijuana is used for lots of valid medicinal purposes, it doesn't seem so medicinal in your friend's case.

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it sounds to me that the person who said it makes u see things was talking out of his rear end :) its a relaxant, not a stimulant. if anything it wud probably make u go to sleep.

i doubt any marja will say its halal for azadari, even tho i dont THINK its on the "najis" list like alcohol is. but if someone wants to smoke it or dring bhang then thats up 2 them. its none of our business. concentrate on your own sins before you point out the faults of others.

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*snicker* Dude, it does not make you hallucinate. Have you been watching Reefer Madness or something? Good heavens.

Actually, while marijuana is used for lots of valid medicinal purposes, it doesn't seem so medicinal in your friend's case.

There's no cure in an intoxicant, there are many Sunni and Shia hadiths on this subject.

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*snicker* Dude, it does not make you hallucinate. Have you been watching Reefer Madness or something? Good heavens.

My bad, I'm not a habitual weed smoker.

Anyway, marijuana is a psychoactive drug. It mostly affects your nervous system. It alters your brain function, and temporarily changes your perception, your mood, your consciousness and definitely your behaviour. This is why it's haram.

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Salam

Just a few quick points:

1) Don't think about others. They are (and the alleged case referred to in this thread is self-evident on this point) alright. Before you judge their behaviour judge yourselves.

2) If you don't know what's going on, keep your mouth shut and don't say a word. There have been a multitude of threads about the herb on this forum before. Why did the newcomer start a new thread about it? We can never know anything apart from what he represents, regarding his real motivations.

3) The real offence in the herb is the fact that it can't serve the interests of colonialism. People smoke it, they feel alright and there has been no competition or egotism in reaching the golden goal. The herb was lawful and widely used, and the British East India Company used to tax it. Since they discovered in the post-war society people could be healed of their need for gratuitous violence, or cured from fighting for the Queen's Penny (problems with armed forces recruitment and protests against war), and were re-examining capitalism at the height of the communist influence in the Cold War, they stopped it, and banned it throughout the British Empire. Or, well, the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation or whatever they want to call this WASP empire.

4) There are many, many people who have smoked herb their entire lives with NO ill effects at all, in body or in mind. This is because the substance itself is less than half the story. The rest is to do with the user of herb - his intentions and mindset when smoking the herb. In the western countries, herb smokers do tend to feel hungry and act stupidly, when smoking the herb. This is because they were hungry before they lit their herb, and they expected their herb to stupefy them (it's an alcoholic society and the alcoholic effect is what they want). The herb gives them exactly what they want to give themselves, and over the course of a long time they may become lazy. However, that's their own fault for being irresponsible and not channeling their intentions before hitting the herb.

5) Herb is the healing of the nation. There is a proven and acknowledged medical benefit in using the herb in treating certain conditions, or reducing symptoms in painful illnesses, or making life worth living for people who are very seriously ill and/or in much pain. What Allah has created, can never be inherently bad in all circumstances. To think so would seem to me to be tantamount to shirk.

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There's no cure in an intoxicant, there are many Sunni and Shia hadiths on this subject.
It doesn't cure anything. However, it is prescribed by doctors for pain and nausea control. My friend's mother had breast cancer twice, and the only way she could eat was by smoking marijuana. It saves lives. My old roommate has a chronic pain disease caused by a birth defect, and his doctor proscribed him some for use on days when he has severe pain, because it's the best medicine around.

Common cold medication - pseudephedrine - is an intoxicant. Most anti-anxiety medications are intoxicants. 2/3rds of all the medicines in the world, over the counter or not, are intoxicants.

Anyone who claims marijuana is a 'cure' is lying. But it has been tested just like every other drug under laboratory conditions and it is proscribed the same way for certain conditions.

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It doesn't literally mean, a "cure," it means that it is impermissible to take any substance that is inherently an intoxicant as medical treatment. It's no different than the fact that wine is haram to drink, yet has supposedly been proven to help the heart and brain. This doesn't contradict the Qur'an, as it says:

They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider- 2:219

There is some benefit in wine, whether social or health related, however, its negative effects, both real and potential, ultimately mitigate any good that it can bring. No different in this situation, you must weigh things according to the shariah and keep this verse in mind. Marijuana is haram to consume and inherently an intoxicant, if you use it in any form you are committing a great sin.

Edited by avjar7

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The real offence in the herb is the fact that it can't serve the interests of colonialism. People smoke it, they feel alright and there has been no competition or egotism in reaching the golden goal. The herb was lawful and widely used, and the British East India Company used to tax it. Since they discovered in the post-war society people could be healed of their need for gratuitous violence, or cured from fighting for the Queen's Penny (problems with armed forces recruitment and protests against war), and were re-examining capitalism at the height of the communist influence in the Cold War, they stopped it, and banned it throughout the British Empire. Or, well, the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation or whatever they want to call this WASP empire.

Come one bro...most intoxicants are a great help to colonialism. If people are being robbed blind and they're too doped up to do anything about then thats a great tool. Its just like alcohol in that regard.

Any drug is a drug. It may be prescribed in certain medical conditions to certain levels of effectiveness. Some drugs can help a wide variety of conditions some drugs may contain a compound that is only good for one subtype of cancer.

I am extremely critical of anyone who uses drugs to escape. This is shameful behavior because while you can be facing your problems in life you're only hiding away behind a smoke cloud.

Totally unacceptable and cowardly.

To anyone who does drugs "casually" i say: Man up!

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If you wanna know the true side effects of marijuana at least ask an expert like myself :dry:.

Everything mentioned here isnt' accurate.

What I stated, is. Read this.

http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/publica...roscience_E.pdf

Read the section about marijuana. You wear that banner of "expert" in this nice and proud eh? That's sad bro....

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Come one bro...most intoxicants are a great help to colonialism. If people are being robbed blind and they're too doped up to do anything about then thats a great tool. Its just like alcohol in that regard.

Yes, for sure, but that's western patterns of marijuana (ab)use. In western protestantised cultures, there is this guilt association with anything oriental or even just vaguely 'foreign' such as marijuana. A cursory examination of poetry and prose in classic English literature of Keats, Wordsworth, Milton, De Quincey, etc. reveals Protestant attitudes to the herb and opium (not recommending either to anyone) as 'Eastern', soft, decadent, weak, effeminate. All of these western attitudes are the direct opposite of our own cultural inheritance.

For example, just as it was once common for western self-indulgent fops of high society to indulge in Eastern drugs before falling into stupid reveries in their godlessness and hedonism, it was also common for Indo-Persian warriors to consume the herb before going into battle. To this day, the use of the herb persists in the pehlwani wrestling gymnasia of northern India, where typically the wrestlers will do very tough physical exercises and consume large quantities of bhang on a daily basis (sometimes, several times a day). And pehlwani wrestlers used to rule the world of wrestling.

So all of their cultural indoctrination is passed down in the attitude of the person using the herb. The herb is a hallucinogen (which doesn't mean it causes 'hallucinations' - it doesn't) so it brings what's in the subconscious out into the conscious. In other words, the user's expectations are amplified to his senses. Therefore, the self-indulgent effeminate expectations of the western user come to the fore, and the user becomes peaceful to the extent that he is totally useless.

To anyone who does drugs "casually" i say: Man up!

That's an example of exactly why it's not safe for a certain type of person (or, most people in the western countries) to use the herb. The ingrained nurtured attitudes about the herb sees it as a means of 'escapism', cowardly inwardliness and unmasculine, and are a mirror image of the Protestant outlook to all Eastern culture. Here in the UK, you can see this strange attitude towards the East, by observing English people go to Indian or Pakistani restaurants.

For some people, it is perfectly safe to smoke the herb. I used to smoke a lot of herb (I don't smoke it at all any more), in unfamiliar places, and never felt unable to fight or take care of myself as effectively as without. However, I don't recommend anyone to use the herb, and I don't say that it's halal.

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So all of their cultural indoctrination is passed down in the attitude of the person using the herb. The herb is a hallucinogen (which doesn't mean it causes 'hallucinations' - it doesn't) so it brings what's in the subconscious out into the conscious. In other words, the user's expectations are amplified to his senses. Therefore, the self-indulgent effeminate expectations of the western user come to the fore, and the user becomes peaceful to the extent that he is totally useless.

lf as effectively as without. However, I don't recommend anyone to use the herb, and I don't say that it's halal.

props bro on the well thought out argument.

for me, i don't feel in a position to argue the marjas. that said, they have not put forth a compelling argument as to why marijuana is haram. they say it is an intoxicant, but to anyone whose ever enjoyed the herb, calling it an intoxicant is a load of b.s. an intellectual stimulant and a relaxant, that is how i would describe it. i am a convert, i used to drink lots of alcohol in my initial college years before i was muslim, nothing like marijuana. alcohol you lose control, you make horrible decisions, you endanger yourself and others, and many many many lives are destroyed. even if you can "handle" your alcohol, you still get wasted and you still make bad decisions. i knew alcohol incites people to evil even before i became a muslim.

to put marijuana in the same group as alcohol is an exercise in absurdity. the only lives marijuana destroys are the lives of the people who are unfortunate enough to get persecuted, excuse me, prosecuted by the authorities because for some incredibly big money reason it is illegal in the US.

i don't smoke it anymore. i have sort of sought forgiveness from Allah because i have smoked it even after i was muslim, but the problem is that i have been unable to accept it as haram. so i don't know exactly what i am seeking forgiveness for, i am honestly unsettled by it. i cannot seek forgiveness for something i don;t think is wrong. the only thing that i see wrong, from the islamic angle, is that i smoked it in a country where it is illegal to do so. i understand, we have to follow the law. regardless, to that i say disobeying the law is part and parcel to living in a democracy. civil disobedience has its place when resisting laws that are absurd.

you don't have to convince me alcohol or gambling is wrong, that is self-evident. crack heads and tweekers? crystal meth is a thief that will rob your life. i used to drive a taxi cab at night, i saw the ruined lives. marijuana in that same category? i don't buy it. islam is supposed to be rational.

this taken from here:

Chirri: There are certain rules contained in the Holy Qur'an to be followed in religious research for the safety of any conclusion that may be reached.

1. Never embrace a doctrine when evidence stands against it, nor should one follow a principle without evidence.

If God wants a person to believe in a principle, He should make it clear and evident

nothing is clear about the prohibition of marijuana. why does the best 00hash come from the muslim countries? i seriously consider myself a decent halaal abiding muslim. i just don't see this on the rational level. on everything else in islam, i get the argument. but with this marijuana thing, it's like it is just stapled onto islam because the scholars never actually wanted to put any time into thinking about it truly. what about a person like me whose intellect developed on marijuana and who sees marijuana as a supplement to my mental activity? an added neurotransmitter if you will. islam wouldn't ban me from serotonin would it? it has been a long time since it was in my life, but without it i feel like only a portion of who i could be. you can argue addiction, but it isn't about addiction, it is about creativity and letting the ideas, pure and very nice ideas, letting those ideas flow and develop. and then i get this guilt because they say it is haram. so i stopped. i dont want to go agaist Allah. but i feel like i am blindly following a principle without any evidence.

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It does not matter if he argues that its like anti depressand. If he is not sick, then he must not take drugs that are for sick persons. And what comes to the fact that many people who use anti depressants have no brain damage or any physically wrong those kind of people should not even use them. They should seek different kind of help, because if person does not have any physical damage, then the problem is only in his own mind and can be cured by change of attitude.

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^^^^that's just it. people make all these statements that are entirely untrue. the only harm marijuana brings is the legal issue. you cannot smoke enough to kill you, there is no such thing as a 'marijuana overdose'. marijuana smokers who do not smoke tobacco do not have higher rates of cancer than non-smokers. we accept caffeine, why is that? some doctors say too much caffeine is not good for a person. i'd like to see the marjas cancel tea. the air pollution in india will kill you. is it haram to live in india? afterall it causes people harm. in islam we are not supposed to come to conclusions without thinking about them.

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^^^^that's just it. people make all these statements that are entirely untrue. the only harm marijuana brings is the legal issue. you cannot smoke enough to kill you, there is no such thing as a 'marijuana overdose'. marijuana smokers who do not smoke tobacco do not have higher rates of cancer than non-smokers. we accept caffeine, why is that? some doctors say too much caffeine is not good for a person. i'd like to see the marjas cancel tea. the air pollution in india will kill you. is it haram to live in india? afterall it causes people harm. in islam we are not supposed to come to conclusions without thinking about them.

I'm going to post something longer in this thread later, but for now I want to add that while from my personal experience, I get much of what you're saying it's a bit misleading to say there are no harms.

I'm sure you've met your share of "wastoids" who have been made into lazy, demotivated slobs through abuse. Impairment of learning with moderate to heavy use is relatively well-established, as are problems with young people whose brains are not yet fully matured using it. While it's pretty common to see A and B students at the high school level who use pot extensively, that's largely because high school is pretty easy and based on general understanding. University tends to be pretty difficult to impossible if you're regularly using it beyond a very limited level (every few weeks or once a month ).

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^^^^that's just it. people make all these statements that are entirely untrue. the only harm marijuana brings is the legal issue. you cannot smoke enough to kill you, there is no such thing as a 'marijuana overdose'. marijuana smokers who do not smoke tobacco do not have higher rates of cancer than non-smokers. we accept caffeine, why is that? some doctors say too much caffeine is not good for a person. i'd like to see the marjas cancel tea. the air pollution in india will kill you. is it haram to live in india? afterall it causes people harm. in islam we are not supposed to come to conclusions without thinking about them.

Salam Aleikum

Marijuana is not harmfullessl. It brings many things that itself are not allowed whitout medical purpouse. Such as marijuana will make you get high, and that itself is forbidden and haram and Islam does not allow humanbeings to get high, meaning make their intelligence to go low, like high I mean. Secondly, if you are compairing marjuana to other things that human beings can concume its not the way how Sharia law works. You cant use qias. meaning analogy in fiqh. Some things are haram, because they are what they are, and the thing what they bring itself is forbidden. So, to make it simple, being high is haram. After that you can continue your search if it is also phycally dangerous or harmful. Yes it is harmful. Then you can continue that will it cause mental illness in some cases. Yes it can. So on, and so fort.

Edited by Ali Askari

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H.E. Sayyed M. H. Fadlullah:

The Messenger has also told us: There will come a time, my Umma (nation) will eat something called Banj (a plant whose seeds intoxicats) I am innocent of those people and they are innocent of me – even if they pray and fast.

In another saying he says that he who finds the sin of eating Banj a small sin would disbelieve, since its prohibition is one of the necessities of religion, and who denies one of the religious necessities becomes an unbeliever.

this is from his most recent friday khutba. i looked up banj and it is the arabic for hashish. (must be lebanese dialect? i though 'hashish' was hashish in arabic) that's pretty heavy. he didn't reference the hadith, but who am i to argue that.

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you cannot smoke enough to kill you, there is no such thing as a 'marijuana overdose'.

I didnt say it kills you, I said it harms you. It is a widely known public fact that marijuana harms you, if you choose to deny that, then thats upto you.

Also, the Quran says Intoxicants are Haram. Marijuana is an intoxicant, therefore its haram. If you dont believe its an intoxicant, I will happily meet you, and film the following - You smoke as much marijuana as you can in half an hour, then after that, lets do an IQ test, or something simpler, such as "Lets see who can stand under their own power", or even "Lets see who can tell us how many legs they have".

Its Haram. As far as im concerned, its between you and The Almighty if you want to sin, but its my duty to tell you to stop it. Arguing about it wont make it Halal.

we accept caffeine, why is that? some doctors say too much caffeine is not good for a person. i'd like to see the marjas cancel tea.

Caffeine is not an intoxicant. Too much water is harmful for the body, so what, should we ban that too?

it has been a long time since it was in my life, but without it i feel like only a portion of who i could be. you can argue addiction, but it isn't about addiction

So you feel the need to take Marijuana, but you say its not an addiction? What is an additiction then?

Let me ask you something, if its such a great drug and improves mental thinking and what ever else you claim, have you heard of any of the prophets having a quick joint? Have you heard of any of the imam's having a quick spliff before giving a khutba? No? Funny that.

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whaaaaaaaat...

Cannabis can cause schizophrenia!! unless you wanna hear voices in your head telling you to do kill yourself then its okay.

Yes it does make you addicted. maybe not physiologically but psychologically addicted!

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Cannabis can not 'cause schizophrenia'. When a person has latent mental illness, it can make that illness manifest. In healthy people (the vast majority of users), it does not cause any mental health deterioration.

There is no such thing as 'psychological addiction'. This is just an oxymoron. 'Addiction' is a physical state. 'Psychological' refers to what's in the mind i.e. purely imaginary.

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