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Noumenon

Why The Need Of An Imam?

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We know that there hasn't been any shia Imam for centuries and shias have been without any guidance and leadership that is infallible. So if you are ok without it, then why any infallible imam? Why we needed any infallible Imam such as Imam Ali after the Apostle of Allah, Muhammad (pbuh)?

Isn't relying on the teachings of Imam Hasan Askari the same as to rely on that of Muhammad (pbuh)?

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We know that there hasn't been any shia Imam for centuries and shias have been without any guidance and leadership that is infallible. So if you are ok without it, then why any infallible imam? Why we needed any infallible Imam such as Imam Ali after the Apostle of Allah, Muhammad (pbuh)?

Salams

We do have an Imam, who is in occultation. In this period of ghaibah, we tend to follow the teachings of the Prophet and the Infallible Imams and spiritually connect ourselves to our current Imam and seek His guidance regarding affairs of religion.

Fi-Amanillah

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How do you get guidance on your modern masail from somebody who isn't there (to answer back)?

I reffered to spiritual guidance which is not alien to Islam. Take the example of a momin who works hard to achieve something but is aware that spiritually He received the assistance of Allah. This example is not mean't to compare the last Imam to Allah, Nauzbillah. But the purpose of this example is to show that we all connect ourselves to the spiritual world and are confident of receiving aid. In case of Imam Mahdi, we consider Him to be one of the Authorities of Allah whose role is to assist momineen and guide them towards the religion of Allah. So we spiritually connect ourselves to Him and seek His guidance. Consider the example of Khizr and other Awliya e Allah who are also not present among us at all times but they assist people as per the hukm of Allah.

Salams

Edited by inshaAllah

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If it is not about the material world then you could maintain this spirit and spirituality even after Muhammad (pbuh), there was no need of Imam Ali then, was it?

The way you are connected to Imam al Mahdi, you could as well get connected to the Apostle of Allah, Muhammad (pbuh).

What's the need of an Imam then?

What's the difference between the spirituality you would get from Muhammad (pbuh) today from that you think you get from Imam al Mahdi?

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Even sunnis regularly narrate a hadith (not sure of their sunni source) that says the "scholars are the inheritors of the knowledge of the Prophet Muhammad al-Mustafa(SAWW)". We believe the same thing; that the Masoom Prophet(SAWW)'s knowledge was inherited by the Masoom Holy Imams of Ahl al-Bayt(as)' and today our scholars are the inheritors of the knowledge of the Holy Imam(as) which is directly from the Prophet Muhammad al-Mustafa(SAWW). So via our Marjas we have access to those who have inherited the knowledge of the Holy Prophet(SAWW) and the Holy Ahl al-Bayt(as).

Edited by Abdul-Rahman Brent

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Even sunnis regularly narrate a hadith (not sure of their sunni source) that says the "scholars are the inheritors of the knowledge of the Prophet Muhammad al-Mustafa(SAWW)". We believe the same thing; that the Masoom Prophet(SAWW)'s knowledge was inherited by the Masoom Holy Imams of Ahl al-Bayt(as)' and today our scholars are the inheritors of the knowledge of the Holy Imam(as) which is directly from the Prophet Muhammad al-Mustafa(SAWW). So via our Marjas we have access to those who have inherited the knowledge of the Holy Prophet(SAWW) and the Holy Ahl al-Bayt(as).

If so then be content with your scholars and Marjas, why the need of any Holy Imams?

The scholars and marjas are already inheriting knowledge from Muhammad (pbuh) or not?

Ok if not from Muhammad (pbuh) then at least from Imam Hasan Askari, then there is no need of Imam al Mahdi?

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Yeah, Brother Noumenon speaks the truth. There is really no actual basis for Imamah... I mean, you bring some ambigous evidence here and there, but you need to think:

Would the average person think: Okay, based on this hadeeth/verse, we must appoint 12 Imams after the Prophet (sw) who are Masoom?

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QUOTE (Waqas 411 @ Sep 27 2008, 11:20 PM)

Okay, based on these very random Ayats and Ahadith , we must follow the appointed 12 Imams (even though follow and 12 and Imams was never a phrase of the PRophet sw) after the Prophet (sw) who are Masoom.

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May I see the holy verses that appoint the 12 holy Imams, from Imam Ali to Imam al Mahdi?

AoA all,

I think you are judging others faith....you are actually arguing for the sake of argument. Imams are not shia or sunnis........its only their followers who distinct themselves from each other. I am a sunni but i firmly believe that thw 12 imams have the highest integrity. But i am a firm believer that Imamas are not limited to the number of 12 only, there is a top Imam e waqt for all times,....living, present and in personified form. Tareeqat, salasil and Awlia Allah do follow a qutub e waqt and even today it is said that some imam-e-waqt is ruling authority from Allah.

He (SAW) IS Rahmatulil Aalimeen........ and Iblees is Zehmat....How is it possible that Zehmat is personified till qayama and rehmat only stays for 63 years.......

Rahmat personifies in the form of imam e waqt who is the Mazhar ul Attm of Muhemmed (Alayh e Salaat o wassalam) Imam Ali was one, Followed by Imam Hassan, Imam Hussain, Imam Hasan Askari.......But then it continued in the form of Khawaja Moin uddin Chishti, Shams Tabrez, Baba Fareed, Mujaddid Alif Thani,....and today as well His blessings are completely and truly personified.

These living imams are paving way and preparing grounds for the arrival of Imam Mahdi (who will be one of them; with the same reality).

The only difference is that His role will be of an announced Imam with greater performing duties. The perfect and optimal Rahma will be in confrontation with top and complete ibleesiyat.

the best analogy i could think of is that All imams had the same rank but it was only Imam Hussain who had the honour of exemplary Shahadat e Karbala. Even waqaiya e Karbala change faces.....happens in every era. But Original has the previlage to be an announced Shahdat e Azim.

Brothers we all belong to the same root.... its just another way of looking at things that differentiates us, please try to understand each other, respect each others faith. We must look at the form (WHICH ALWAYS IS THE SAME: THOUGH IT CHANGE FACES AND NAMES) and not the substance which is temporary. The body of imam is a substance.... the form is the ONE and ONLY...... same NOOR. rest is histroy.

May Allah bless us all with His Noor (SAW)

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They will bring a narration about Musa (as)...

And than somebody will come and explain to us about how it doesn't mean they are men from Banu Yisrael but actually the 12 Imaams (Sahaba must have changed the position of the ayah - wa nauzubillah)

I reffered to spiritual guidance which is not alien to Islam. Take the example of a momin who works hard to achieve something but is aware that spiritually He received the assistance of Allah. This example is not mean't to compare the last Imam to Allah, Nauzbillah. But the purpose of this example is to show that we all connect ourselves to the spiritual world and are confident of receiving aid. In case of Imam Mahdi, we consider Him to be one of the Authorities of Allah whose role is to assist momineen and guide them towards the religion of Allah. So we spiritually connect ourselves to Him and seek His guidance. Consider the example of Khizr and other Awliya e Allah who are also not present among us at all times but they assist people as per the hukm of Allah.

I honestly still don't get it. I'm not quite as well aware about the whole Khidr and Ilyas (as) stories, but if they are helping people out, than they are not in ghayba - they are actually present to help people. i.e. People can see them, they help out in reality. As for the Mehdi in ghaybat, the narrations condemn people who claim to see him (according to 12er shurooh, this means seeing him in reality, not dreams). So I must ask, is this how you believe he is guiding you (i.e. in dreams) or do you mean something else when you say "spiritually"?

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The problem is that the sources come first, then the beliefs. You make beliefs, and then justify them by saying it does not go against the sources.

hmmm...it reminds me of one thing which you might not agree though but it actually explains the style of Quraan and Allah's divine wisdom. Sura- Rahman: (Quotes) "Al Rahman. Gave Ilm of Quran. Created Insaan. Taught him Explanation."

Can you ask Allah that if sourse was not created first, how come ILM was taught to Insaan. and if insaan was not created at the time of creation.....waho was taught the Ilm. Insaan (the sourse) was only taught Bayaan (Explanation) ILM was given to HIS SOUL.

Its a beautiful ayat and i think it should answer your contention.

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(Ar-Rahman! He has taught the Qur'an. He created man. He taught him Al-Bayan.) Al-Hasan said: "Eloquent speech.'' This refers to Allah teaching the Qur'an, that is, teaching the servants how to recite it by making it easy for them to speak and pronounce letters with the various parts of the mouth, such as the alveolar bridge, the tongue and the lips (Ibn Kathir)

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If it is not about the material world then you could maintain this spirit and spirituality even after Muhammad (pbuh), there was no need of Imam Ali then, was it?

The way you are connected to Imam al Mahdi, you could as well get connected to the Apostle of Allah, Muhammad (pbuh).

What's the need of an Imam then?

What's the difference between the spirituality you would get from Muhammad (pbuh) today from that you think you get from Imam al Mahdi?

We are confusing the idea of Imamat with the idea of Occultation, both of which have their own context. Our physical existence does require guidance which is why the Prophet and other Imams were sent to us on the first place and they were a necessity. But just like Imamat is a God given status and a will of Allah, the ghaybah of the last Imam is also the will of Allah. Thus we do not challenge Allah's will of bringing occultation upon us. Rather, we realise occultation to be a form of test for us and that we do not have this physcial connection with the last Imam like we had with others. So we make an effort to seek guidance from the teachings of the Prophet and all of our Imams in jurisprudential or ideological affairs of our religion. And we also connect ourselves to our Last Imam who is still alive in our pysical world, although in occultation, and is to re-appear (by the Hukm of Allah) to save humanity from corruption.

Salams

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(Ar-Rahman! He has taught the Qur'an. He created man. He taught him Al-Bayan.) Al-Hasan said: "Eloquent speech.'' This refers to Allah teaching the Qur'an, that is, teaching the servants how to recite it by making it easy for them to speak and pronounce letters with the various parts of the mouth, such as the alveolar bridge, the tongue and the lips (Ibn Kathir)

Ar Rahman. Taught Qura'an......(there is no expression of "HAS" in it; it has a divine and deliberate continuity in it)

Ok even if we take it as He has taught Quran.......... then do you think he came \himself and started dictating. Yes He actually did but through some form and medium. Actually the reality is that the ILM was given by the SUBSTANCE TO THE SUBSTANCE and then a promise was taken from the soul (Ahd-e-Alast).

Insaan in the form of Human was created afterwards and he was actually taught elocution and explanation through Jibrael.

Look at the correct literal transalation and order of the ayaa mubarika. just see the continuity and enjoy the wisdom.

Quraan explains itself. Truly

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Look at the correct literal transalation and order of the ayaa mubarika. Quraan explains itself. Truly

I'm afraid I'll trust the tafsir of Imaam al Hasan (ra) over trying to interpret the Qur'aan using my own ray of Qur'aan itself. I don't see how a literal translation is "correct" and one based on narrations (which are used for the purpose of interpretation...) is incorrect - when the literal translation (depending on the translator) can take a different meaning without elucidation from narrations.

Edited by MohammadMufti

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We are confusing the idea of Imamat with the idea of Occultation, both of which have their own context. Our physical existence does require guidance which is why the Prophet and other Imams were sent to us on the first place and they were a necessity. But just like Imamat is a God given status and a will of Allah, the ghaybah of the last Imam is also the will of Allah. Thus we do not challenge Allah's will of bringing occultation upon us. Rather, we realise occultation to be a form of test for us and that we do not have this physcial connection with the last Imam like we had with others. So we make an effort to seek guidance from the teachings of the Prophet and all of our Imams in jurisprudential or ideological affairs of our religion. And we also connect ourselves to our Last Imam who is still alive in our pysical world, although in occultation, and is to re-appear (by the Hukm of Allah) to save humanity from corruption.

Salams

Agreed to a gr8er extent. A messanger is known to send Allahs message accross. But if Quraan was enough for the spiritual up bringing then Quraan could have been sent on a piece of rock. Physical demonstration was meant neccessary for the people to understand it comprehend it. Imams physical presence is absolutely required for the continuation till qayamt. If the physical presence for demonstartion was only suffficient for 63 years ...1400 yrs ago, then qayamat shd have been brought upon 1400 years back. RA (SAW) taught Quraan to some one else and made him into one, that someone taught to somebody, and that silsila is still raaij today. The personification physically demonstrates True Quraan, which is not just a book to read dear. Roohaniyat/ spirituality can only make one enjoy the delicacies. Physical presence makes us Quraan: (Allama Iqbal): "Yeh raaz kisi ko nahin maloom ke momin;.....qaari nazer ata hai, haqeeqat mein hai quraan"

A medicine related book written by an autor is not enought to make you a doctor. Only a doctor is able to teach you the subject. And you have to physically and practically follow him to become a doctor. We always need a physical presence of Quraan with us, wali with us....Imam with us.

We must enjoy quraan in reality not in dreams. To be quraan we need physical quraan........we cannot just close our eyes and satiate our thirst by imagining. We have to have a glass of water so that we could physicall hold it and drink to kill our thirst.

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I'm afraid I'll trust the tafsir of Imaam al Hasan (ra) over trying to interpret the Qur'aan using my own ray of Qur'aan itself. I don't see how a literal translation is "correct" and one based on narrations (which are used for the purpose of interpretation...) is incorrect - when the literal translation (depending on the translator) can take a different meaning without elucidation from narrations.

I dont remember any imam including Hz Ali (ra) writing a tafseer or translation.....is there any??? if yes then i am not aware of that. true Quraan is not just interpretation. I am not jusging the reliability of the source you mentioned. But dear Allah has in simplest manner explianed his aya-e-mubarika and has asked several times in quraan that He has explained (khol khol ke) to us then why dont we think...?????

Take a mionute out of the box and see..... aisa ho bhee to sakta hai....... if tafaseer were all having same explanation i wd have not said that. But there are few distortions in text meanings and various tafaseer. Everybody takes his own share from Quraan.

Salam

There is no basis for imams, yet there is a need for an imam in every mosque in every other prayer, including the unislamic taravih?

you must be having a laugh.

True....indeed

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Why the need for caliphs? Why was Abu bakr chosen as a caliph/leader as soon as Prophet passed away? Why? Because there was a need for a leader.

Imamate is that leadership, but its legitimate and theocratic. YA DIG?

I wd like to elaborate.....theres not just a need of a leader but for a TEACHER as well . If one isnt a teacher how can he teach

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If so then be content with your scholars and Marjas, why the need of any Holy Imams?

The scholars and marjas are already inheriting knowledge from Muhammad (pbuh) or not?

Ok if not from Muhammad (pbuh) then at least from Imam Hasan Askari, then there is no need of Imam al Mahdi?

What? Masoom Imam al-Mahdi(as) will return to earth with Prophet Jesus(as) at the time Allah(SWT) has decreed. Then justice will be brought to earth; and those who practice evil will be defeated. In the meantime while Masoom Imam al-Mahdi(as) and Masoom Prophet Jesus(as) are in occultation; we have our Marjas to help guide us. These Marjas are those who study the Holy Qur'an and the Sahih hadith of the Holy Ahl al-Bayt(as); meaning they are the "inheritors" of the knowledge of the Masoomeen(as) while Imam al-Mahdi(as) is still in occultation.

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In the meantime while Masoom Imam al-Mahdi(as) and Masoom Prophet Jesus(as) are in occultation; we have our Marjas to help guide us. These Marjas are those who study the Holy Qur'an and the Sahih hadith of the Holy Ahl al-Bayt(as); meaning they are the "inheritors" of the knowledge of the Masoomeen(as) while Imam al-Mahdi(as) is still in occultation.

wow, so in fact you don't need an infallible imam to be around in order to find guidance. now that's interesting.

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The necessity of having a political leader is common sense. The claim that the universe cannot exist without the presence of an infallible human being is not.

i think we shall consult quraan, where Allah said that He is appointing Human as his Naaib as Calif, and that calif is not only a political leader and teacher but also the leader of the universe....... remember that hadith "Who takes bayet on Imams hands, he takes bayet on my hands"

and it was only iblees who argued........... :blush:

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The necessity of a guide/political leader is DIVINE sense. Read it up in Quran. Accept Quran whom you defend or get lost worshipping omari worships.

Oh really? Last time I checked it wasn't there. I read a lot about Tauhid, belief in angels, divine books, prophets, the Day of Judgment,...but Imaamat? Isn't it strange that even wudu' is described in more detail than the concept of Imaamat?

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Oh really? Last time I checked it wasn't there. I read a lot about Tauhid, belief in angels, divine books, prophets, the Day of Judgment,...but Imaamat? Isn't it strange that even wudu' is described in more detail than the concept of Imaamat?

Imamate(as) is found all throughout the Holy Qur'an. Also Imam al-Mahdi(as) is still guiding us via the Marjas who do their best to continue on his Masoom path. One example:

Holy Qur'an Surah 5:55

ÅöäøóãóÇ æóáöíøõßõãõ Çááøåõ æóÑóÓõæáõåõ æóÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇú ÇáøóÐöíäó íõÞöíãõæäó ÇáÕøóáÇóÉó æóíõÄúÊõæäó ÇáÒøóßóÇÉó æóåõãú ÑóÇßöÚõæäó {55}

[shakir 5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 5:55]

All the commentators unanimously hold, as Qushaji admits in the Sharh al Tajrid on the subject of imamat, that this verse refers to Ali when he gave his ring to a beggar while bowing down in the course of his prayers. Nasa-i has also recorded this tradition in his Sahihah al Nasa-i, and so has the author of Al Jama Bayn al Sihah al Sittah (corroboration of the six authentic books) in discussion of the commentary on al Ma-idah, and so does Tha-labi in his Tafsir Kabir, and al Balakhi in his Yanabi has copied it from Ahmad bin Hanbal's Musnad, vol. 5, margin of p. 38. Please refer to the commentary on this verse in Wahidi's book Asbab al Nuzul (the circumstances of descent) which contains the tradition related by Ibn Abbas. Al Khatib has recorded the tradition in Al Muttafiq, and Ibn Marduwayh and Abu Shaykh in their Musnads. It is mentioned in Kanz al Ummal, vol. 6, p. 391, tradition no. 5991. In Ghayah al Maram, chapter 18, there are twenty four traditions from sources other than the Ahl ul Bayt, all supporting the above statement about the descent of this verse.

When Abi Ishaq Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Ibrahim Naysaburi al Tha-labi reached this verse he recorded the following in his Tafsir al Kabir on the authority of Abu Dharr al Ghifari, who said "Both of my ears may turn deaf and both my eyes may become blind if I speak a lie. I heard the Holy Prophet saying, 'Ali is the guide of the righteous and the slayer of the infidels. He who has helped him is victorious and he who has abandoned him is forsaken'. One day I said my prayers in the company of the Holy Prophet; a beggar came to the masjid and begged for alms, but nobody gave him anything. Ali was in a state of ruku in the prayer. He pointed out his ring to the beggar, who approached him and removed the ring from his finger. Thereupon the Holy Prophet implored Allah, saying: 'O Allah! My brother Musa begged You saying: My Lord, delight my heart and make my task easy and undo the knot in my tongue so that they may understand me, and appoint from among my kinsmen, Harun, my brother, as my vizier, and strengthen my back with him and make him participate in my mission so that we may glorify You and remember You more frequently. Certainly You see us-and You inspired him: O Musa! All your requests have been granted. (The Holy Prophet continued) Delight my heart and make my task easy and appoint from among my kinsmen Ali as my vizier and strengthen my back with him'. (Abu Dhar proceeds) By Allah, the Holy Prophet had not yet finished his supplication when the trustworthy Jibril descended to him with this verse". (Ibn Khallikan says that Al Tha-labi was unique as a commentator of the Quran and his Tafsir al Kabir is superior to all other Tafsirs).

In this verse the word wali has been used in the meaning of guardian or master or who holds authority superior to others. Please refer to the origin of the word wali in Sihah or Mukhtar al Sihah or any other good dictionary. The lexicographers have explained that he who manages the affairs of and exercises authority for another person is the wali of that person. This verse, therefore, means that those who manage the affairs of the people (mankind) are superior to all men, and certainly they are Allah, His messenger, the Holy Prophet, and Ali, who possesses all the qualifications enumerated in this verse. Allah has simultaneously confirmed His wilayah (superior authority), that of His prophet and his wali (Ali) in unbroken succession. Allah's wilayah is universal, so likewise, the wilayah of the Holy Prophet and his wali (Ali) must be so. It is not possible to assign to the word wali in this verse the meaning of a helper or a friend, etcetera, for help and friendship are not confined to these three only. All the faithful men and women, according to the holy book, are friends and helpers of one another. It is as obvious as can be that the word wali in this verse means, guardian, ruler, possessor of superior authority. It is in this sense that the word wali has been used by the Holy Prophet in the abovenoted tradition related by Al Tha-labi in his Tafsir al Kabir on the authority of Abu Dharr al Ghifari whom the Holy Prophet had given the title of siddiq (the truthful). There are other authentic traditions, given below, in which the word wali indicates its true meaning:

(i) Abu Dawud al Tayalisi has recorded in Isti-ab on the authority of Ibn Abbas, who said: "The Holy Prophet said to Ali, 'You are the master (wali) of the faithful after me'."

(ii) After an expedition, under the command of Ali, some of the men, who went with him, complained to the Holy Prophet about Ali's refusal to oblige them favourably. The Holy Prophet turned to them with signs of displeasure on his face and said: "What do you want to do to Ali? Surely Ali is from me and I am from him, and after me he is the master (wali) of all the faithful."

Nasa-i has recorded it in his Khasa-is al Alawiyyah, p. 17, Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, vol. 4, p. 438; Hakim in Mustadrak, vol. 11, p. 11; Al Dhahabi in his Talkhis al Mustadrak; Ibn Shaybah and Jarir both have recorded it from whom Muttaqi of India has copied it in his Kanz al Ummal, vol. 6, p. 400; Tirmidhi has recorded it from Asqalani, mentioned in his account of Ali in his Isabah; Ibn Hadid has copied it from Tirmidhi in his Sharh al Nahj al Balagha, vol. 2, p. 450.

(iii) The Holy Prophet said to Buraydah:

"Am I not a more privileged master (mawla or wali) of the lives of the faithful than the faithful themselves? Ali is the master (wali or mawla) of those who believe me to be their master."

Ahmad ibn Hanbal has recorded it in his Musnad, vol. 5, p. 356, Hakim has recorded it in his Mustadrak, vol. 3, p. 110, besides many other traditionists.

(iv) The Holy Prophet said:

"O Ali! After me you are the master of all the faithful."

Hakim has recorded this tradition as reported by Ibn Abbas in his Mustadrak, vol. 3, p. 134; and Dhahabi in his Talkhis; Nasa-i in Khasa-is al Alawiyyah p. 6; Ahmad ibn Hanbal in Musnad vol. 1, p. 331.

"Ali is your wali after me", means that Ali and none else will be the master of the faithful after the Holy Prophet. It confines in Ali the authority to manage the affairs of the ummah after him. It is, therefore, necessary to attach the same meaning to the word wali and to understand it in the same sense as has been pointed out above. Help, affection, love, friendship are not confined to any one person. All faithful men and women love and are friends of one another. If the meaning of wali is taken as helper or friend, then why the Holy Prophet took so much interest in, and attached so much importance to, clarifying emphatically what was obvious and evident, so as to repeat the declaration off and on? His perfect wisdom, his thorough impeccability and termination with him of the prophethood make him far above the indulgence of explaining the self-evident, emphasising the obvious and making unnecessary repetitions. Besides, the traditions lay down clearly that Ali is or will be master of the nation after the Holy Prophet, and this makes it all the more necessary to understand the word wali in the same sense and fix for it the same meaning as has been stated above. The abovenoted traditionists, commentators and historians also deal with the word wali or mawla as the "more privileged master of the lives of the faithful than the faithful themselves."

"Those who believe" is in the plural form. How can it be applicable to an individual?

All the annotators, traditionists and historians agree that it was Na-im ibn Mas-ud al Ashja-i, whom Abu Sufyan gave ten camels for discouraging the Muslim, said to them: "Fear your enemies who have united against you and gathered in large numbers to attack you" (Ali Imran: 173), but in this verse "people said to them" (a plural form) has been used.

It was Ghawrath from the tribe of Banu Maharib, some scholars say, while others say that it was Umar ibn Jahash of the tribe of Banu Nadir, (a single man) single man) who drew out his sword to strike the Holy Prophet, but verse 11 of al Ma-idah describes it as "when a group of persons became so bold as to stretch their hands to you"-in plural form. Verse 120 of al Nahl says: "Ibrahim was certainly a people obedient to Allah".

There are plenty of other examples of using the plural form for an individual.

Tabrasi, while commenting on this verse in his Majma al Bayan, says: "The plural form has been used for Ali in order to express his glory and eminence ."

Zamakhshari, in his Tafsir al Kashshaf, says:

"If you inquire how this plural word is applicable to Ali, who is an individual, I shall say that though this verse is about Ali, an individual, the plural form is used in order to persuade others to act similarly and give alms as readily as Ali did."

The Imams among the Ahl ul Bayt have frequently referred to this verse as a proof of their rightful imamat and have assigned the same meaning to the word wali as we have stated.

The word innama makes the decision of Allah (that He, the Holy Prophet and Ali alone are the masters of the believers) final and decisive. The construction of the sentence and the word wali, used in singular for all the three, means that wilayah of all the three is essentially one in nature as well as in effect. Therefore, obedience to the Holy Prophet must be as it should be to Allah, and obedience to Ali and his successors (the Imams among the Ahl ul Bayt) must be as it should be to the Holy Prophet.

Wa hum raki-un is an adverbial clause qualifying the manner in which the alms were given. If it is taken as a conjunctive clause, then yuqimunas salat or this clause becomes an unnecessary repetition.

In fact this verse points out the highest state of spiritual attainment-fully absorbed in witnessing the glory of the absolute Lord and at the same time alive to the needs of His servants so as to solve them at once to their full satisfaction- which alone entitles a man to be a master like the eternal master, the almighty Allah. The Quran a asserts this possibility for such a man, not for all the followers because they have been addressed in

second person (kum). The plural term "those who believe" is used to include the Imams among the Ahl ul Bayt in the same way as has been done in verse 61 of Ali Imran (Mubahilah).

Please also refer to verse 67 of this surah for the event of Ghadir Khum where the Holy Prophet openly declared Ali as the wali or mawla of the faithfuls just as the Holy Prophet himself is. The entire Muslim nation is unanimous that when the verses of the Quran were collected they were not arranged in the same order in which they descended. There is many a verse occurring in an irrelevant context, for instance, the verse of purification, which occurs in the account of the wives of the Holy Prophet, but actually is in praise of the five persons of al kisa, as has been universally admitted. All Muslims are agreed that arguments are to be preferred to the context, and whenever the implication of the context was opposed to the implication of arguments they ignored the context and yielded to the arguments, because they were doubtful about the context in which a certain verse occurs.

Edited by Abdul-Rahman Brent

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i think we shall consult quraan, where Allah said that He is appointing Human as his Naaib as Calif, and that calif is not only a political leader and teacher but also the leader of the universe....... remember that hadith "Who takes bayet on Imams hands, he takes bayet on my hands"

And I think we should stop playing lego with verses and stop interpreting them according to our whims.

Imam Mahdi helps those who need him the most. He is like Khizr as.gif, whomsoever is lost in the way, he helps them out.

Al-Khidr is dead. There is no authentic proof to suggest something else. And even if he weren't, then obviously not being in occultation but helping people cannot be compared to someone who..well..is in occultation.

Edited by Muhawir

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And I think we should stop playing lego with verses and stop interpreting them according to our whims.

Al-Khidr is dead. There is no authentic proof to suggest something else. And even if he weren't, then obviously not being in occultation but helping people cannot be compared to someone who..well..is in occultation.

You seem to be trying to ridicule the belief in occultation; yet you hold this same belief about Prophet Jesus(as).

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Imamate(as) is found all throughout the Holy Qur'an. Also Imam al-Mahdi(as) is still guiding us via the Marjas who do their best to continue on his Masoom path.

Allright, tell me, what happens if you gave the noble Qur'an to someone who has never heard of Islam before and after reading it, ask him what Islam is about? What are the odds of him telling you:

"Muslims have to believe that at any time there is an infallible Imam who is guiding them. I guess there were twelve after Muhammad."

I'd say precisely zero.

Edited by Muhawir

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Allright, tell me, what happens if you gave the noble Qur'an to someone who has never heard of Islam before and after reading it, ask him what Islam is about? What are the odds of him telling you:

"Muslims have to believe that at any time there is an infallible Imam who is guiding them. I guess there were twelve after Muhammad."

I'd say precisely zero.

I'll quote from a scholar who wrote on this website earlier regarding this general topic; quote- The Holy Qur'an, in numerous passages, has asserted that everything has been explained in it. It is the most complete and comprehensive divine book. However, Allah (swt) Has also left room for us to use our intellect and mental capabilities to arrive at the correct path. A professor explains everything that is related to the course he/she is teaching, but when it comes to the time of testing the students, the professor is usually keen on leaving room for critical thinking to determine the bright and diligent student from the lazy and dull. The professor usually explains the general concepts and ideas, but it is up to the students to apply them to specific cases. The Qur'an has explained the principal concepts, but it does not address every specific issue. It is up to us to use our intellect to arrive at the true path. Not everything is so cut-clear at a first glance. Where's the test if everything were to be laid out for us? The truth is always surrounded with ambiguous and unclear elements. If a professor gives out all the answers on a final exam, he's defeated the purpose. However, Islam has given us the answers; we just have to search for them.

In addition, it is not accurate to say that the Qur'an has clear instructions with regards to all matters of faith, and that there is no ambiguity. For instance, the Qur'an simply commands us to pray, but it does not teach us how. It instructs us to fast and perform Hajj, but there are no specific details. The details are explained by the Prophet and the Imams . So even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that Ahlul-Bayt are not explicitly mentioned in the Holy Qur'an, it does not change anything, simply because the traditions of Ahlul-Bayt have explained the Holy Qur'an and those verses which are not "clear" instructions. So for instance, the Qur'an has instructed us to obey Allah (swt), the Prophet , and those "who have authority" over us. While such verse (4:59) is not so clear in stating the details of those who have authority over us, the traditions of Ahlul-Bayt, who explain the Qur'an to us, have made it clear what is meant by such verses.

We believe that Ahlul-Bayt have been clearly mentioned in the Holy Qur'an. There are two ways to refer to someone. You can just simply bring his name, or you can refer to his descriptions and attributes. Clearly, by referring to his characteristics, you are giving him more importance and weight than by simply mentioning his name. So for example, let's say you have a professor who is very dear to you, and you want to refer to him. You can either simply bring his name, or you can say, "I have a professor who's very bright, he has the best of morals, he always has a bright smile on his face, he never derides anyone, he's punctual and on time, etc..." Of course, the second way is far more effective, especially if you assume that only this professor have this attributes. So the one who wants to know who he us, we will do his research to figure out which professor fits these descriptions. The Qur'an is full with references to Ahlul-Bayt, and the descriptions it gives only apply to them. It does not need to mention their specific names. The traditions of the Prophet and Imams have clearly explained who Ahlul-Bayt are and that it is mandatory to follow them. So there are many reasons why the Qur'an does not mentioned them, such as to test us (so we go and do our homework to figure out who they are), or to point out that it is their attributes and merits which are important to look at and be concerned with, not their names.

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