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Zara28

Thinking Of Moving To Canada...

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Salams.

Hubby and I are considering(and I emphasise considering) moving to Canada as we have had many positive things about this country.

I am told there is a sizable Shia community and seem to be more practising than they are here in the UK(sorry fellow Britons, but you know what I mean :P )

The health care appears to be good, which is vital as both my husband and I have health complaints and so this is one of the things we are looking into before moving any where.

Does any one have any advice for a british muslim wanting to move to Canada..?

Example: how are Muslims treated in Canada?

Which city/province is most suitable for a Shia Muslim?

What are job prospects like..are there many opportunities for employment?

What is the school system like..are there many Shia schools there?

Are the Shia communities organised and do they actively help one another and arange regular meetings at the mosque/centres etc?

Sorry for the lengthly questionare, lol, but would like to know as much as posiible before making any decision.

JazzakAllah.

wassalam and Ramadan mubarek!

:)

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(salam)

I wrote a really long reply and I usually copy my reply while I go along the way but I was copying this URL to post here and I don't know what I did but I closed this browser and I lost my whole reply :(. I'm going to try and write word for word what I wrote previously [this time I'm copy pasting it on Notepad as I go :dry:]:

~~~~~~~~~~

Sure Canada is a decent country and all, but I wouldn't big up the health system too much. I had heard that the British health system is better than Canada's but I was just in London a few months ago and saw how my cousin was getting treated and realized that it's pretty much the same thing as Canada. But I don't know, I don't remember ever having to go to the hospital here for anything serious, Alhamdolillah, so maybe I'm not the best person to answer this. But I remember when my bro dislocated his wrist a number of years back, he had to wait about 4/5 hours for a doctor to come and fix his wrist.

The job situation, I say it depends on the field and what your education qualifications + experience is. Your education really matters here in Canada [alongside experience]. But I think it's safe to say that they prefer those who have received education from Western countries. I know people who have worked years in the Middle East with top notch companies and have their education qualifications from South Asia and when they come here they have to struggle really hard and for years they might have to just work in factories, call centres or driving taxis.

How are Muslims treated in Canada? When was the last time you personally heard Canada in the news in regards to any issue related to Muslims :Hijabi:? I don't know, depends on the area I guess. There are a lot of Muslims in Canada and in the city that I live in (Toronto). Obviously not as many as there are in London but the general notion of Canada is that people are usually nice and this seems to be the case for the most part. I personally haven't experienced much lash-back of any sort since 9/11, maybe because I live in an area which has mostly South Asians and people from East Asia. My high school was also heavily populated with Muslims. Presently at university (it is a Jewish university), there are a lot of Zionists but the 2nd highest population @ uni is of Pakistanis. We do have protests and tabling sessions by certain groups that are at times supporting Israel but then you also have counter-protests in response to them. All in all, everything for the most part is done in an academic manner. Generally most people are educated and are immigrants from different parts of the world and it is a very multicultural society. Also at various universities, just like there is a MSA (Muslim Students Association), there is also a TMA (Thaqalayn Muslim Association) which is a Shia organization at North American universities (their website: http://www.thaqalayn.org).

Anyways, since I'm from Toronto I can tell you about the Shia centers in Toronto. Though there are Shia communities in Montreal, Ottawa, Windsor (where the hawzah is) and Vancouver, I think it's pretty safe to say that the hub is Toronto (not saying this cuz' I live here and cuz' Toronto is just cool anyways :P, but because we do in fact have a lot of Shias and a lot of centers which are active).

I'll just make a quick list of the different centers that are here in Toronto:

The above are more in the Central/Eastern region of Toronto. Coming towards the West end you have:

Most of the mosques also have youth organizations that are affiliated with the centre. So for example the Jaffari Centre has the Jaffari Youth, the Al Mahdi Centre has the Al Mahdi Youth, Al Hussain Centre has the Al Fajar Youth, Masumeen Youth, Afghan Youth. . .

Though most of these mosques do events in language other than English, we still do have a lot of English events in these mosques. Though I've noticed that the Khoja based centres cater for non-English speakers the best. Regardless, on Thursday nights, [talking about the mosque I go to:] besides the prayers, Dua-e-Kumail and the Ziyarah Waritha; the speech itself will be half English and then half Urdu. The Jummah sermon in the two places that I've attended Jummah in (Al Mahdi and Jaffari Centre) is in English. Also since there are youth organizations for these big centres, they take responsibility for catering the youth and holding events for them both academic and recreational (and they are in English). For example, I am on the Al Mahdi Youth Society, we hold events like speech competitions, Musabaqah (Islamic quiz competition), we have held ski trips in the past and one of our big events is the summer camp. We also hold discussion nights on certain nights like Friday night from time to time or on Tuesday after Dua-e-Tawassul we have discussions. There is another event we hold called Dusk till Dawn during Ramadhan and on New Years Eve. Almost all the big centres get an English speaker/scholar to speak in English for at least the first 10 days of Muharram. So last year we had Sheikh Hamza, Syed Modarrasi and Sheikh Hussain in town for the first 10 days of Muharram. We also have converts that come to the mosques who do not speak languages other then English for example and some of them are there at the mosque more often than others, MashAlah. Presently during the month of Ramadhan there is iftar + dua-e-Iftitah + speech every single day and the amaal are also done at the mosques in congregation.

All in all, if you are attending mosques regularly; like on Thursday nights and on events such as wiladat and shahadat nights and get into the community, get to know people, you will feel as if a lot is going on in terms of a community being active and since the community is fairly small (compared to London i.e), it feels a lot like a family-like community. Okay before I make it sound all like heaven where Shias are living in a utopia, let me tell you that yes there are a lot of negative things that go on as well as no community is perfect and I believe you would understand that just like positives exist, so do the negatives exist in every community.

We have two Madrassah (Sunday School), one in the East end and one in the West end.

East End Madrassah: http://eemadrassah.ca

West End Madrassah: http://www.madrasah.ca

We have two Shia schools:

As-Sadiq Islamic School (goes up till grade 6): http://www.as-sadiqschool.com/

Wali-ul-Asr Academy (recently opened): http://wali.ca/

There is also a general Muslim school called Madinatul Uloom Academy: http://www.mua.ca/ It is also a very good school and has the important part of high school [grade 9 till 12] in it and most of their students that graduate end up in universities. Since these are private schools, you obviously have to pay for them.

Just a personal vibe I have received from people generally. People who have lived in London for a while will have to get used to the quiet and at times boring environment of Toronto as it is not that populated and people who come from London say that there isn't much to do. I personally don't like London at all (I've been there tons of time, ever since 1994) and I don't understand how people even live there. It's too populated and congested for me to survive there and for some reason I feel as if people have a major attitude problem and are gangsta' wannabes. Not to mention the fact, people care a bit too much about the way you look and dress - as in your image is really what matters at the end of the day - and judge you accordingly! [i'm not saying that you should dress in ugly clothes, but it's more like some sort of a competition going on in London]. I have noticed that it is a lot harder to practice Islam in London than it is here in Toronto, though both are Western countries and exposure to haram is normal but there is a lot more exposure to it in London. Pubs in literally every corner - you will not find that many pubs here, most of them are in the Downtown region which is an expensive area to live in and I don't know of many Shias that live there. Also the display of R-rated images on bill-boards and phone booths and what not, you do not see such things in Canada. But then again, it would really depend which area you would live in. I guess I was just lucky to have come to this part of Toronto that I am in currently, where there were many Muslims in high school and in the neighboring area it self and there still are. The mosques are also not that far, 15 minute drive which is really nothing and it is easy to attend mosque regularly on Thursday nights which is vital.

Anyways, those were just my thoughts and experiences.

Wassalam

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Well my aunt who lives in Canada says that the health system is quite bad there. Even third world countries like India are in a way better. This is because of the public health system. Sometimes when you need to have a test, you are put on waiting lists and your doctor can get into trouble if he gives you another test too soon. But if you live somewhere near the border to USA, you can go there on a short visit and go to a private hospital there if you need to.

I will request one of the members on SC to post over here as she has lived both in Canada and in Britain.

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Well my aunt who lives in Canada says that the health system is quite bad there. Even third world countries like India are in a way better.

Now you are exagerrating! :lol:

Why don't move to Holland lol... here the insurance companies are obliged to accept everyone without exceptions, and eventough they have waiting list.. (who hasn't when you need some other people's kidney/heart) but everyone is being treated, and the insurance company basically pay everything that cost above 150 euro per year.

but they don't have shia mosque :( and small small comunity spreading all over holland.....

it's funny, I was thinking about moving to London because I heard a shia convert moved there and they are happy with the muslim community there

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Well my aunt who lives in Canada says that the health system is quite bad there. Even third world countries like India are in a way better. This is because of the public health system. Sometimes when you need to have a test, you are put on waiting lists and your doctor can get into trouble if he gives you another test too soon. But if you live somewhere near the border to USA, you can go there on a short visit and go to a private hospital there if you need to.

I will request one of the members on SC to post over here as she has lived both in Canada and in Britain.

I am said hubby in question. :)

Both my wife and I are completely against private healthcare. We both find it morally repugnant that such systems discriminate between people who can afford to be sick and an underclass who cannot.

Also, I would rather die than step foot on American soil. :P

Edited by IsaHassan

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(salam)

I wrote a really long reply and I usually copy my reply while I go along the way but I was copying this URL to post here and I don't know what I did but I closed this browser and I lost my whole reply :(. I'm going to try and write word for word what I wrote previously [this time I'm copy pasting it on Notepad as I go :dry:]:

~~~~~~~~~~

Sure Canada is a decent country and all, but I wouldn't big up the health system too much. I had heard that the British health system is better than Canada's but I was just in London a few months ago and saw how my cousin was getting treated and realized that it's pretty much the same thing as Canada. But I don't know, I don't remember ever having to go to the hospital here for anything serious, Alhamdolillah, so maybe I'm not the best person to answer this. But I remember when my bro dislocated his wrist a number of years back, he had to wait about 4/5 hours for a doctor to come and fix his wrist.

The job situation, I say it depends on the field and what your education qualifications + experience is. Your education really matters here in Canada [alongside experience]. But I think it's safe to say that they prefer those who have received education from Western countries. I know people who have worked years in the Middle East with top notch companies and have their education qualifications from South Asia and when they come here they have to struggle really hard and for years they might have to just work in factories, call centres or driving taxis.

How are Muslims treated in Canada? When was the last time you personally heard Canada in the news in regards to any issue related to Muslims :Hijabi:? I don't know, depends on the area I guess. There are a lot of Muslims in Canada and in the city that I live in (Toronto). Obviously not as many as there are in London but the general notion of Canada is that people are usually nice and this seems to be the case for the most part. I personally haven't experienced much lash-back of any sort since 9/11, maybe because I live in an area which has mostly South Asians and people from East Asia. My high school was also heavily populated with Muslims. Presently at university (it is a Jewish university), there are a lot of Zionists but the 2nd highest population @ uni is of Pakistanis. We do have protests and tabling sessions by certain groups that are at times supporting Israel but then you also have counter-protests in response to them. All in all, everything for the most part is done in an academic manner. Generally most people are educated and are immigrants from different parts of the world and it is a very multicultural society. Also at various universities, just like there is a MSA (Muslim Students Association), there is also a TMA (Thaqalayn Muslim Association) which is a Shia organization at North American universities (their website: http://www.thaqalayn.org).

Anyways, since I'm from Toronto I can tell you about the Shia centers in Toronto. Though there are Shia communities in Montreal, Ottawa, Windsor (where the hawzah is) and Vancouver, I think it's pretty safe to say that the hub is Toronto (not saying this cuz' I live here and cuz' Toronto is just cool anyways :P, but because we do in fact have a lot of Shias and a lot of centers which are active).

I'll just make a quick list of the different centers that are here in Toronto:

The above are more in the Central/Eastern region of Toronto. Coming towards the West end you have:

Most of the mosques also have youth organizations that are affiliated with the centre. So for example the Jaffari Centre has the Jaffari Youth, the Al Mahdi Centre has the Al Mahdi Youth, Al Hussain Centre has the Al Fajar Youth, Masumeen Youth, Afghan Youth. . .

Though most of these mosques do events in language other than English, we still do have a lot of English events in these mosques. Though I've noticed that the Khoja based centres cater for non-English speakers the best. Regardless, on Thursday nights, [talking about the mosque I go to:] besides the prayers, Dua-e-Kumail and the Ziyarah Waritha; the speech itself will be half English and then half Urdu. The Jummah sermon in the two places that I've attended Jummah in (Al Mahdi and Jaffari Centre) is in English. Also since there are youth organizations for these big centres, they take responsibility for catering the youth and holding events for them both academic and recreational (and they are in English). For example, I am on the Al Mahdi Youth Society, we hold events like speech competitions, Musabaqah (Islamic quiz competition), we have held ski trips in the past and one of our big events is the summer camp. We also hold discussion nights on certain nights like Friday night from time to time or on Tuesday after Dua-e-Tawassul we have discussions. There is another event we hold called Dusk till Dawn during Ramadhan and on New Years Eve. Almost all the big centres get an English speaker/scholar to speak in English for at least the first 10 days of Muharram. So last year we had Sheikh Hamza, Syed Modarrasi and Sheikh Hussain in town for the first 10 days of Muharram. We also have converts that come to the mosques who do not speak languages other then English for example and some of them are there at the mosque more often than others, MashAlah. Presently during the month of Ramadhan there is iftar + dua-e-Iftitah + speech every single day and the amaal are also done at the mosques in congregation.

All in all, if you are attending mosques regularly; like on Thursday nights and on events such as wiladat and shahadat nights and get into the community, get to know people, you will feel as if a lot is going on in terms of a community being active and since the community is fairly small (compared to London i.e), it feels a lot like a family-like community. Okay before I make it sound all like heaven where Shias are living in a utopia, let me tell you that yes there are a lot of negative things that go on as well as no community is perfect and I believe you would understand that just like positives exist, so do the negatives exist in every community.

We have two Madrassah (Sunday School), one in the East end and one in the West end.

East End Madrassah: http://eemadrassah.ca

West End Madrassah: http://www.madrasah.ca

We have two Shia schools:

As-Sadiq Islamic School (goes up till grade 6): http://www.as-sadiqschool.com/

Wali-ul-Asr Academy (recently opened): http://wali.ca/

There is also a general Muslim school called Madinatul Uloom Academy: http://www.mua.ca/ It is also a very good school and has the important part of high school [grade 9 till 12] in it and most of their students that graduate end up in universities. Since these are private schools, you obviously have to pay for them.

Just a personal vibe I have received from people generally. People who have lived in London for a while will have to get used to the quiet and at times boring environment of Toronto as it is not that populated and people who come from London say that there isn't much to do. I personally don't like London at all (I've been there tons of time, ever since 1994) and I don't understand how people even live there. It's too populated and congested for me to survive there and for some reason I feel as if people have a major attitude problem and are gangsta' wannabes. Not to mention the fact, people care a bit too much about the way you look and dress - as in your image is really what matters at the end of the day - and judge you accordingly! [i'm not saying that you should dress in ugly clothes, but it's more like some sort of a competition going on in London]. I have noticed that it is a lot harder to practice Islam in London than it is here in Toronto, though both are Western countries and exposure to haram is normal but there is a lot more exposure to it in London. Pubs in literally every corner - you will not find that many pubs here, most of them are in the Downtown region which is an expensive area to live in and I don't know of many Shias that live there. Also the display of R-rated images on bill-boards and phone booths and what not, you do not see such things in Canada. But then again, it would really depend which area you would live in. I guess I was just lucky to have come to this part of Toronto that I am in currently, where there were many Muslims in high school and in the neighboring area it self and there still are. The mosques are also not that far, 15 minute drive which is really nothing and it is easy to attend mosque regularly on Thursday nights which is vital.

Anyways, those were just my thoughts and experiences.

Wassalam

Thank you for your very detailed reply. :)

We have heard that Vancouver and Winnipeg have quite sizable Shia populations can anyone verify this?

We currently live in London(UK) and we are keen to leave the big city and live somewhere with proper countryside and wide open spaces for our children to play in. I grew up in Lancashire and I feel quite bad that my own children do not have the benefit of being able to play in fields and forests in safety.

Any recommendations?

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Now you are exagerrating! :lol:

How do you know I am exaggerating or not? The Indian health care system is quite good (from what I have heard) because of the amount of patients they have and its cheap. My aunt might be traveling to India because her husband and she herself have developed some problems this year which the Canadian are being lazy about so they are going to travel to India to have a peace of mind and not live under the constant fear of having developed cancer without any way out. :angry:

Both my wife and I are completely against private healthcare. We both find it morally repugnant that such systems discriminate between people who can afford to be sick and an underclass who cannot.

You can use the private health care when the public health care isnt living up to your standards.

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We currently live in London(UK) and we are keen to leave the big city and live somewhere with proper countryside and wide open spaces for our children to play in. I grew up in Lancashire and I feel quite bad that my own children do not have the benefit of being able to play in fields and forests in safety.

Any recommendations?

I don't know that you'd find that in Toronto, which is a huge sprawling place (it's not like London though, it's more spaced out than crammed in so there might be some improvement in that regard). I'm from Canada myself, though it's been years since I've lived there. Never much cared for Toronto though, too big for my taste (I grew up in New Brunswick, born on Prince Edward Island, so I grew up as a Maritimer). That said, there are a lot of Shi`a communities there and a large population, so it depends on balance what you're looking for. In terms of Canada itself, what can one say. It has it's good points and lesser points. Between the UK and Canada though, I think I'd choose to live in the latter. Actually quite happy where I am right now though, which is in Pittsbugh, PA, in the US. Nice sized city (not too big, not too small), with decent amenities, affordable cost of living, nice natural surroundings with largely agreeable, moderate weather (though with four distinct seasons) and interesting architecture, and a good (though not huge) Shi`a community as well. Actually, if it's country living you're looking for, the Shi`a center is located out of the city in area that's more country-esque (Plum, PA).

Edited by macisaac

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How do you know I am exaggerating or not? The Indian health care system is quite good (from what I have heard) because of the amount of patients they have and its cheap. My aunt might be traveling to India because her husband and she herself have developed some problems this year which the Canadian are being lazy about so they are going to travel to India to have a peace of mind and not live under the constant fear of having developed cancer without any way out. :angry:

You can use the private health care when the public health care isnt living up to your standards.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2233762.stm

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You can use the private health care when the public health care isnt living up to your standards.

No we can't as we have principles derived from Islamic justice that we stand by and will not either for the same reason.

The exploitation of the poor is completely at odds with the teachings of RasulAllah(SAWS) and Imam Ali(AS).

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(salam)

We have heard that Vancouver and Winnipeg have quite sizable Shia populations can anyone verify this?

Yes, Vancouver also has Shia communities and though I've not been there I know that it is more 'spaced out' than Toronto. Obviously where there is a less population you will feel more freedom of space. So compared to London (7 million), Toronto (2 million) feels all spaced out; compared to Toronto, Vancouver (6 hundred thousand) and where brother macisaac said (province of New Brunswick) would feel more spaced out. Since I've been to London, Toronto doesn't feel all that crammed for me at all. I know there is a TMA at the University of Manitoba (Winnipeg) so I'm assuming there are decent number of Shias in that city.

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AssalaamuAlaykum,

Im sorry sister, i havent read the other replies and so if i repeat or contradict, i apoligise. Infact someone pmd to post on here and so that why i will.

I am a BRIT who moved to CANADA and so i shall talk about the differences and similarities i found:

1) sister the muslims are more practicing here in the UK. Alot of shia do not wear HIJAB and some regard you as backward if you do!!! Its big and little things. il give some exmaples. In muharam the youth girls were carrying the alams so roughly in leparc that i actually got so upset on ASHURA that i told one of them to have some respect cos i couldnt take what i was seeing. So many girls just stand outside bayview without even a dupata. Masid is a fashion show at times even amongst the elderly who give other elderly the 'look up and down'. VERY STRANGE i thought. You are judged on ur education and i experienced this first had when the smiles came out and the 'hey, salaams , how are you?' when they found my educational background, family name and my english accent. When previously i was judged as something quite different of who i used to hang out with who were poor, lived in the 'complex' (an area where they bung the 'on benfit' shia iraqi/khoja/iranians). Funny i even experienced the same among the poor and ud think they wouldnt be as judgemental. Ofcourse that happens here too sometimes.

2) As a housewife: BORING..I felt like the living dead. there is nothing to do. its not like london where you see people all over the place. Some like the serene but i grew up in city of london and so so it was a huge shock to my system and i often just wanted to sleep time away cos there was literally nothing to do. Highlights included WALMART and masid.

3) Social life: I was often the only hijabi in the mall. The malls are DEAD. Theres more shop assistants than costomers ....AND THINGS ARE SOOOOOOOOOOO EXPENSIVE. I paid more in the canada version of lidl than i would in sainsbury here. For example a packet of digestives is about 3 dollars!!! A loaf of white bread is close to 3 dollars. ONE cumcumber is 3 dollars!!!!!! I HARDLY EVER SHOPPED FOR CLOTHES there cos they were too expensive and out of fashion and plus u cant really find hijab stuff there. This dell laptop cos me 1400 dollars in canada when i couldve got it for 500 pounds here. Thats why i have the dollar $$$$$ instead of the pund sign on the keys. And the @ is in a different place! But some things are cheaper like...um....gas/petrol but u need more there.

4) Get used to experiencing F words. Its normal! The airport is so RACIST. I always was interegated even with a small baby and i was travelling alone. I hated it.

5) Mutah is common in teens. there was a huge amount of wife abuse in khoja community.

6)Amazing it seemed like a lot of the shia community had no clue about issues in palatine and iraq....they were so out of touch! shocking. It was like theres too much in their own lives to occupy them.

7) Im gonna stop at the negatives so i could go on and ive pobably offended every canadian here and so here are the plus's:

1) THE MOST BEAUTIFUL HOMES: They are HUGE and dirt cheap. You can have a huge 6 bedroom house (and thats amerian size rooms) for like $500,000-00 CA.

2) Nice spring and auntum weather but the extremelties of the summer and winter is so bad that i couldnt take my little girl outside. You need AC.

3) Nice big roads and nice scenary. I like the way there were racoons in the garden!!!! But the skunks are bad.....very unsual scent they give off...its not like a fart but not like petrol either.

what else was good....I met some LOVely people and also some dreadful but i love my friends there.

btw i lived in richmond hill toronto and im sure curruption is verywhere and im sure here in uk too but in two years that i lived there i saw what i hadnt seen here in 25.

Salaam....and sorry my canadian bro's and sisters but you guys on SC make me think twice that people there arnt all bad.

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I am not interested in debating on health care systems as I ahvent even studied basic biology :squeez: .... :P but I am just telling you what I have heard from people and atleast one doctor who knows both the systems somewhat. And this article talks about the PUBLIC health care system. There is the oublic and private sector in India and I guess theres a balance. But I am not Indian so I dont really know much about India. But I do know that in Canada you will probably have problems sometimes. The image of Canadian health care isnt good in my eyes based on the experience of those who I think are reliable and trustable people.

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(salam)

1) Sis Veiled from what I can read in your post, it seems like you haven't had much experience outside the Khoja community. Saying that Masjid is a fashion show in Muharram for the girls - you are saying it as if it only happens in Toronto. And yes for sure you are judged on your education (instead of how you look and what you wear), I kinda' mentioned it in my first post as well (I know you didn't read it but just thought I'd let you know that I agree).

2) Agree, if you have lived in UK all your life and move to Toronto for sure it will be boring for you - two totally different life styles. I mentioned this in my post as well, that people who have lived in London for a while will have to get used to the quiet and at times boring environment of Toronto as it is not that populated and people who come from London say that there isn't much to do.

3) Which malls did you go to? Richmond Hill, Scarborough, Missisauga and Brampton have a lot of Muslims and hijabis. In fact I've seen niqabis in the Thorncliffe and Richmond Hill area. I went Square One a few months ago for the first time and I had never seen that many hijabis in a mall at the same time - a lot of them even working at the stores. Once again, you can't really compare the Muslim population of London to the Muslim population in Toronto. There are a lot more Muslims in London so you will tend to see a lot more hijabis as well as compared to Toronto. Though I don't know what's there to be proud about, I've seen many hijabis down Edgware Road and Southall as well and I don't see what's so special about their 'so-called' hijab. And things expensive compared to London :mellow:, what?! I was in London in July the gas price was like 1.37, and it was 1.30 in Toronto when I left! Half the price buddy B). And the tube it costs a couple of pounds depending on who it is (child or adult) and if it's like a one-way travel and to which zone you need to go; however you know that the fare for adults using the bus/train while traveling in a straight route with or a straight route with one transfer is only $2.75, that's almost like 1 pound 40. And don't mess with our cucumbers, have you seen the size of those cucumbers :!!!:? And you guys have the @ at the different place, not us. We are standard, the @ goes above the 2 :P. And are you forgetting the cheap yet amazing Tim Hortons and Dairy Queen (which is so much cheaper compared to the prices of Baskin Robbins in London, DQ is like more than half the price cheaper).

4) First time I heard the F-word was from a 4 year old Muslim girl in London @).

5) Woah, where :P? Tell me these areas too, before I go past my teenage years :Hijabi:!

6) Did you ever attend the Al-Quds protests, the rallies against Iraq war, rallies against Shia brutality in Pakistan, against US occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq - right in front of the U.S consulate or at Queens Park downtown? Everything takes place, including seminars and conferences with even the Sunni community (particularly with Br. Zafar Bangash) it's a matter of how much a certain community is advertising it and who is willing to come. We have protests @ university against the Israeli apartheid, you can probably search on YouTube [ http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=CEDxPojHmZM ]. I won't lie though, I feel as if the Khoja community here doesn't really come out to these events-protests anyways. We have even held conferences at Bayview in the past (since it is a big mosque and can encompass more people), regarding such related events but I've not seen the presence of the Khoja community in such type of events. As for the protests themselves, if you attended them, obviously you are not going to get the same turn out as you would get in Marble Arch, but I don't think it's fair to say that Shia community has no clue about Palestine and Iraq.

Richmond Hill is a known upper-class higher income community. No doubt money can corrupt easily, perhaps that's why generally you have felt the way that you have expressed in your post - I haven't lived there to experience it. Did you by any chance live in that Shia-complex at Richmond Hill?

Wassalam

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Salam

I just wanted to say a few things regarding your post. I understand where you're coming from but your harsh judgments are mostly bias. Anyone who moves from their home town is obviously going to experience a culture shock wherever they go.

1)Its very unfair of you to say that muslim sisters are not practicing the religion. Canada has a very wide variety of cultures of people, and so with this variety comes a variety in ideologies. That doesn't necessarily mean its any less good to live here, you just have to prove that you can beat the ignorance and find a unity with all the people. I know in the Uk, places where there are not many muslims or none at all. My cousin goes to Kings College Uni and he tells me there barely any arabs there, does that mean he should hate on it? No he doesnt mainly because London is his home town. So I think you arent being fair with us, you need to give it a chance. No place is the same, we are jsut finding it hard to cope with these changes. And I think its also to your benefit to be living in the area where you must experience a different bag of culture. Allah has a test for everyone, you need to stay strong and instead of thinking what you're missing in london, look at this as an opportunity for you to be the real flag of islam.

2) Canada is the second largest country in the world, isit really a surprise that it isnt as convenient to go to your favourite places as is in london? No because london is so tiny it takes like an hour to go from the north part of the city to the south. Maybe you should get a car, toronto and especially rhill is not dead at all. As Br Ali Imran said, shopping centres such as Square One, Eaton Centre, Vaughan Mills Mall, and Yorkdale are places where youl will find great cultural variety. Also, you said that Canadian shopping is expensive? Um, Oxford street really puts that argument to shame. The only cheap place in London is Primark or the Sunday market shopping. You know that high fashion in london is more expensive... Harrods made me feel so poor, but here i can shop at Holt Renfrew. I found that a bit odd... And whats with the 2 pounds for a bus ride? Transportation/gas prices and dining in london can drain your pockets!

4)While vacating in london I really did not enjoy my bus rides in the afternoons when youth start riding, I felt like I was in a cursing fest.

5) Mutah is common in teens? Where are these parameters coming from? Ive lived here for 20 years and I know only 1 person who has done mutah

6) About our ignorance to political issues, I think Ali Imran has explained fully our standpoint.

Sister, you cant go around pointing fingers, to me it seems like you think you londoners are somewhere high up there...

I assume you've lived in london for the majority of your life, isit really fair to pass this kind of judgment on toronto when you've lived here only 2 yrs?

Wss.

Edited by Ardent

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(salam)

4)While vacating in london I really did not enjoy my bus rides in the afternoons when youth start riding, I felt like I was in a cursing fest.

Cheapest place in London was the market that runs beside Wembley stadium on the weekend :P. And too many bullies and gangstas in London as I said. These guys will stab you for 5 pounds. Heck, even less than that @). This Sardar Jee had a fight with my cousin's friend at Southall. The Sikh was drunk (which is not surprising since they got a pub like in every corner :P) and messing with the shopkeeper, so my cousin's friend tries to be the hero and pushes him away and gets into a fight and literally knocks the Sikh out. Then the Sikh guy runs towards his car and this friend runs after him to knock him out some more but this Sardar Jee pulls out a sword from his car (his car window was open) and with his sword he cuts the friend's wrist and slashes his shoulder and then he splits open his forehead. The friend survived some how, despite so much loss of blood. I just saw the friend this July again and he had scars on his forehead and wrist.

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786

Salaam Alaikum,

What different types of competitons have you held, we are planning to have a Quran competition for my classes in Madrassa to encourage them to memorise Surahs and prep for the Exams, any ideas for effective fair competition?

Musabaqah (Islamic quiz competition),

ws

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(salam)

What different types of competitons have you held, we are planning to have a Quran competition for my classes in Madrassa to encourage them to memorise Surahs and prep for the Exams, any ideas for effective fair competition?

Musabaqah (Islamic quiz competition),

We have had this competition annually called the Hafiz Challenge where boys and girls of different age groups are to memorize certain surahs and translation of those surahs. They are judged based on their recitation of the Qur'an - with a panel consisting usually of a scholar and a qaari. The hall has a projector set and on the screen there is a display of a program (which is programmed by one of the community programmers) and it will choose a random surah and the kid has to recite the surah that they get. After the first round, kids who were unable to recite a certain surah are removed. Second round is based on your Arabic pronunciation of the Surah (and of course the memory of the Surah). Third round it is both of those combined plus you have to say the translation of the surah. The kids are given the list of Surahs months before hand - usually it is about 12 surahs or so and Ayat ul-Kursi (when I took part last time - which was a few years ago - I lost on Ayat ul-Kursi in the last round cuz' of my Arabic and this other kid had better makhraj, it took bare long to memorize the translation :dry: but it was fair at the end of the day). So yes, at the end we have first, second and third - and gifts are usually something quite valuable.

As for Musabaqah, it is more of an inter-youth-organization thing (however it started off with just us doing it in our mosque). So all the various mosques that have youth societies gather 4-5 boys/girls from their respective mosques and the various TMA's at the universities gather individuals and basically there are a number of teams. Once again, it takes a lot of effort to come up with this program, you need to come up with at least 2000 questions based on various topics, like Qur'an, Aqaid, History etc. and then once again a programmer makes the program with the questions set in it and to randomly pick certain question. I believe I have the whole set-up for how the competition works, rules and everything some where saved, I can look for it and send it to you if you want.

We have also had this play 2 years ago on Ghadeer (not to be confused with the Ghadeer Banquet held by the TMA - which also has a play), this play was held at my mosque [pic 1, pic 2, pic 3, pic 4, pic 5, pic 6, pic 7] and it was based on the historical event after the death of Uthman and how Ali (as) was chosen. There were tickets that were to be bought that helped us cover the cost of the play, the food and also some savings which we were able to use for future events. We set up the mosque with a stage and set decoration and worked out costumes, memorize the script and had a qaseeda in the start and in the end with a head-set mic system (hiding under our turbans :P). It was also a packed house Alhamdolillah. After that the young kids of the madrassah also got interested in doing such a thing so they did a little skit on their Madrassah recognition day [pic]. Alongside that, we also have a youth Shab-e-Dari which is an annual thing, where kids from as young as you can imagine till the elder youths recite nohas and since it's Shab-e-Dari it starts late in the night with a majlis for the youth in English and ends with Fajr prayers.

Wassalam

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Salaams,

Jazakallah for the comprehensive reply, sounds like alot of Fun and energyyy...inshallah need to get the kidddies utilising it here in the right way! the rules for the competition will be handy :)

ws

Edited by Aal-e-Imran
Just got rid of the long quote

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yehhhhhh i disagreee big time on the shopping part

sure london may have some better quality when it comes to clothes..but you guys are madd expensive.

my cousin from england here comes and she comes here with 1 suitcase and leaves with 2...not including the carry on bag she takes with her...

oh and the best city is mississauga (city part of the greater toronto area) :D...trust me Zara98, its the most multicultural and accepting ever...+ we got the biggest mall in ontario here :)

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I love love love Canada! I've been living here for 3 years and I'm already active and no lots of people.

1) You're not talking about a masjid, you're talking about an elite social club that happens to cater to Khojas of the Muslim shia variety. But at least the resident 'alim is pretty cool. Come to Bilal centre and you'll see us chillaxin in sweats. haha There's more to Toronto then JIC country club.

2) You've must have been living in a cave in Toronto. I went every where with my little one in tow. We joined civil liberties group, Ontario Early Years Centre, North York Women's Centre, membership to the Ontario Science Centre, drop-in centres, women's centre, etc. Most recently we got a member ship to the art gallery. There's loads of places to go and see in Toronto and for all different budgets. There's so many parks in Toronto, festivals every weekend in the summer, free places, and places that aren't free have free days. I love the Riverdale farm. There's so many walking/hiking trials. Parks& recreation offer free women-only swim times, swim lessons, and other things. There's plenty of things to do in Toronto! I'm back in uni now and the things to do on campus alone are numerous.

3) Were you living around Bayview? That's a Jewish neighbhorhood. Come to Parliment street, Lawrence avenue. When I'm driving down Lawrence I think I'm in Lebanon. There's loads of great tasting Arab restaurants and stores. There's also alot of Afghan, Indian, Somali, and African Muslims. If your social life was that dry, I dunno what to tell you! There's just so many people here. I see Muslims all the time...so many constantly. I'm never the only hijabi in my town, and I regularly see Niqabis too.

3.B) Where were you buying bread? Bread is 1.30$ plain white at No Frills. The Arab pita breads are 2 for 1.99 at Nasr foods. I buy cucumbers for 1.00 out of season or 3 for 1.00 in season. Most of the produce in Loblaws and No Frills is local from Ontario.

3.c) What have you ever been to Eaton centre??? That's just ridiculous. I'm beginning to think you lived in suburb. Eaton centre is huge and Yorkdale mall isn't so bad either. I prefer Town Centre in Scarb though. There's loads of hijab stuff, even in the regular retail stores. Long sweaters, tops, jackets, monteou style tops, skirts, everything. Again, I 'm not sure where you were shopping because they're not that expensive depending on your budget. My budget is extremely low so I only shop clearance. Of course i'm not that OCD on fashion either. www.tigerdirect.ca for laptops. I'm thinking ppl saw you coming and raised the prices. lol I lived without a car for 2 years and didn't need much petro. A metro pass is 96$ at the student union office. I get to school in about 40 minutes. I live at the end of the train line and a bus away. That's a pretty good distance to get to the heart of downtown in such time.

4) Canadians are laid back and multiculturalism is enshrined in our country. Unlike Britain, most immigrants to Canada become a part of society, find jobs, and live a good life. Canadians are pro-immigration and welcoming and in particular Ontario. We are not like European countries or the usa that wants assimilation. You're free to be you here and Canadian at the same time. I've gone to so many organizations and they cater to Muslims. Even the Salvation army offers EID GIFTS to poor Muslim children. Most all organizations offer accommodation to Muslim needs.

5) lol are u serious?

6) Maybe in the country club you attended. The VP of equity at York is a SHIA muslima. There's Quds day of course but also alliances with other groups. While I do agree that the masajid are silent too much...I know SOOO MANY sisters who are very well knowledgeable on these issues and in Toronto itself there's sooo many groups fighting for these causes. There's the Stop the War Coalition, Food Not Bombs, No One Is Illegal, several Palestinian organizations, several student organizations, THERE ARE SOOO MANY ORGANIZATIONS!! There was a task force on the needs of Muslim students and it was published widely and one of the Canadian Federation of Students campaigns centres around Islamophobia!!

1) THE MOST BEAUTIFUL HOMES: They are HUGE and dirt cheap. You can have a huge 6 bedroom house (and that's American size rooms) for like $500,000-00 CA.

That's cheap to you? lol And you're complaining about the cost of clothes here?? lol

2) Nice spring and auntum weather but the extremelties of the summer and winter is so bad that i couldnt take my little girl outside. You need AC.

I grew up with A/C and have never had A/C here. You do not need a/c. Majority of apartment buildings (except those in affluent places) dont' have a/c. Everyone goes out in winter. You just need to get adapted. Alot of ppl come here and they're like omg its snowing I can't go outside. If you dress appropriately, you'll be just fine. I used to be a apart of a mom and baby group and we'd meet for stroller walks as long as the weather wasn't bellow -14C. Granted that was in Fort McMurray, Alberta. Usually here though people manage just fine in the snow. Like I said I didn't have a car for 2 years and I managed the winters just fine and with my daughter also. They make plastic covers for the strollers, baby bunting bags or blankets, snow suits, hat, gloves, yall be just fine!!

3) Nice big roads and nice scenary. I like the way there were racoons in the garden!!!! But the skunks are bad.....very unsual scent they give off...its not like a fart but not like petrol either.

Toronto has loads of trees. That's true. And the raccoons are soo cute. they remind me of little old men the way they walk. lol One time Iwoke up and saw some baby raccoons in my green bin. I made a noise and one of the raccoons so young and naive came to the glass!! It was the cutest thing ever.

And Richmond hill is not even Toronto. It's part of York Region. There's a different transit and different people and different lifestyle.

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AssalaamuAlaykum My canadian Brothers and Sisters.

My intention was not to offend but i did know that there woukd be backlash since well u are CANADIAN! Joke btw.

I also said that the SC members suprised me but i think a lot of u guys are mostly pakistani and although i was khoja my best friends were pakistani shia and they are the good folk i speak off. They still kept their culture. The khoja community havent and the Most of the Iranian shia havent and The iraqis i came accross were not like the iraqi here. I had a chance to mix with the poor and the rich, the educated and the not so, the beautiful and the not so, the youth and the not so. I came from one background and the people i lived with came from another. My friends came from another. I do not speak of ignorance since I LIVED in canada for two years. people commenting have only visited england. When i first visited canda, i loved it but then when i lived there i saw it was just a country with polished smiles and no atmosphere. I have travelled all over the world and canada was the most lacking in 'life'. Im sorry guys but if u can tell me uve lived in both countries, il take ur word seriously but u have just visited england.

Ali Imara: the cucumbers were smaller than here!

I said gas is MUCh cheaper but u guys travel more than twice the distance to get anywhere

Your public transport system is simple but most people dont use it. WHY? maybe cos its limited?

If u shop in walmart or the dollar store, yes clothes are cheaper but im talking about highstreet fashion. Canada is expensive. I think the only thing i bought there from a mall was a pair of maternity trousers and they set me back 70 dollars and they wernt even what u could say were high street standard. And hello we live in London and so fashion in Canada is just not upto scratch. I would find much better in primark than i would in any store there. Infact i often send clothes as gifts to my friends over there, i dont care about the postage cos i just want them to have nice things.

Cream cheese is 4 dollars a tub at No frills. Please do not tell me things have changed. BUTTER is $4. Sis OP the 24 hour store called dominion will set u back upto $5 for a red bell pepper!!!! But its cos its 24 HOUR!!!! Guys, nearly all our supermarkets are 24 hour here.

I could go on and on comparing costs and if anyone want to dispute feel free and we can discuss costs and which store.

HIJAB in canada. Are u serious. I lived in richmond hill and yet still was at many many many times the only hijabi at hillcrest. There were malls outside of richmond hill, where i was the only ASIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont think u get that anywhere in England. People i knew worked in placed that had never seem a muslim in their lives apart from the one they worked with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You cant compare hijab in the two countries by looking at engware road (full of oil rich saudis on the holidays who wear hijab for fashion) or southhall (equivalent of gerrard street there). Have u been to cricklwood or kilburn brother Imran? Have u seen how the Iraqis and iranians wear CHADOR in the streets? I never saw that in Canada dispite living among thousands of Iranians.

Brother imaran to be judged on ur status and education or country of residence is just as bad as being judged on your looks.

I dont know where the brothers from here have been going to school if u dont know that mutah is popular in the youth. It seems that contrary to what u are saying i mustve seen in two years what u guys have been protected from or are just nieve to. maybe it was just my luck to see this side of a country.

But even though i did see so much filth, i still saw the beauty of the landscape and the homes.

This sister wants to move there and so like u guys im giving my input and so far i think that no one have come up with facts like me and who can talk from my exerience of living in two countries.

For the poster who said i got culture shock i think it was a lack of culture shock that i got. I mentioned i have travelled a lot and my family consists of a mixture of races and religions and i prefer to mix outside of my own culture. I have not always practiced. I really dont think it was my lack of open mindedness.

Salaam!

Edited by Veiled

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I love love love Canada! I've been living here for 3 years and I'm already active and no lots of people.

1) You're not talking about a masjid, you're talking about an elite social club that happens to cater to Khojas of the Muslim shia variety. But at least the resident 'alim is pretty cool. Come to Bilal centre and you'll see us chillaxin in sweats. haha There's more to Toronto then JIC country club.

2) You've must have been living in a cave in Toronto. I went every where with my little one in tow. We joined civil liberties group, Ontario Early Years Centre, North York Women's Centre, membership to the Ontario Science Centre, drop-in centres, women's centre, etc. Most recently we got a member ship to the art gallery. There's loads of places to go and see in Toronto and for all different budgets. There's so many parks in Toronto, festivals every weekend in the summer, free places, and places that aren't free have free days. I love the Riverdale farm. There's so many walking/hiking trials. Parks& recreation offer free women-only swim times, swim lessons, and other things. There's plenty of things to do in Toronto! I'm back in uni now and the things to do on campus alone are numerous.

3) Were you living around Bayview? That's a Jewish neighbhorhood. Come to Parliment street, Lawrence avenue. When I'm driving down Lawrence I think I'm in Lebanon. There's loads of great tasting Arab restaurants and stores. There's also alot of Afghan, Indian, Somali, and African Muslims. If your social life was that dry, I dunno what to tell you! There's just so many people here. I see Muslims all the time...so many constantly. I'm never the only hijabi in my town, and I regularly see Niqabis too.

3.B) Where were you buying bread? Bread is 1.30$ plain white at No Frills. The Arab pita breads are 2 for 1.99 at Nasr foods. I buy cucumbers for 1.00 out of season or 3 for 1.00 in season. Most of the produce in Loblaws and No Frills is local from Ontario.

3.c) What have you ever been to Eaton centre??? That's just ridiculous. I'm beginning to think you lived in suburb. Eaton centre is huge and Yorkdale mall isn't so bad either. I prefer Town Centre in Scarb though. There's loads of hijab stuff, even in the regular retail stores. Long sweaters, tops, jackets, monteou style tops, skirts, everything. Again, I 'm not sure where you were shopping because they're not that expensive depending on your budget. My budget is extremely low so I only shop clearance. Of course i'm not that OCD on fashion either. www.tigerdirect.ca for laptops. I'm thinking ppl saw you coming and raised the prices. lol I lived without a car for 2 years and didn't need much petro. A metro pass is 96$ at the student union office. I get to school in about 40 minutes. I live at the end of the train line and a bus away. That's a pretty good distance to get to the heart of downtown in such time.

4) Canadians are laid back and multiculturalism is enshrined in our country. Unlike Britain, most immigrants to Canada become a part of society, find jobs, and live a good life. Canadians are pro-immigration and welcoming and in particular Ontario. We are not like European countries or the usa that wants assimilation. You're free to be you here and Canadian at the same time. I've gone to so many organizations and they cater to Muslims. Even the Salvation army offers EID GIFTS to poor Muslim children. Most all organizations offer accommodation to Muslim needs.

5) lol are u serious?

6) Maybe in the country club you attended. The VP of equity at York is a SHIA muslima. There's Quds day of course but also alliances with other groups. While I do agree that the masajid are silent too much...I know SOOO MANY sisters who are very well knowledgeable on these issues and in Toronto itself there's sooo many groups fighting for these causes. There's the Stop the War Coalition, Food Not Bombs, No One Is Illegal, several Palestinian organizations, several student organizations, THERE ARE SOOO MANY ORGANIZATIONS!! There was a task force on the needs of Muslim students and it was published widely and one of the Canadian Federation of Students campaigns centres around Islamophobia!!

1) THE MOST BEAUTIFUL HOMES: They are HUGE and dirt cheap. You can have a huge 6 bedroom house (and that's American size rooms) for like $500,000-00 CA.

That's cheap to you? lol And you're complaining about the cost of clothes here?? lol

2) Nice spring and auntum weather but the extremelties of the summer and winter is so bad that i couldnt take my little girl outside. You need AC.

I grew up with A/C and have never had A/C here. You do not need a/c. Majority of apartment buildings (except those in affluent places) dont' have a/c. Everyone goes out in winter. You just need to get adapted. Alot of ppl come here and they're like omg its snowing I can't go outside. If you dress appropriately, you'll be just fine. I used to be a apart of a mom and baby group and we'd meet for stroller walks as long as the weather wasn't bellow -14C. Granted that was in Fort McMurray, Alberta. Usually here though people manage just fine in the snow. Like I said I didn't have a car for 2 years and I managed the winters just fine and with my daughter also. They make plastic covers for the strollers, baby bunting bags or blankets, snow suits, hat, gloves, yall be just fine!!

3) Nice big roads and nice scenary. I like the way there were racoons in the garden!!!! But the skunks are bad.....very unsual scent they give off...its not like a fart but not like petrol either.

Toronto has loads of trees. That's true. And the raccoons are soo cute. they remind me of little old men the way they walk. lol One time Iwoke up and saw some baby raccoons in my green bin. I made a noise and one of the raccoons so young and naive came to the glass!! It was the cutest thing ever.

And Richmond hill is not even Toronto. It's part of York Region. There's a different transit and different people and different lifestyle.

Madre, there is weird going ons in that bayview place. I know i am just speaking of one society on the mosque issue but even that, people dont see the faults. I often attended rallies in London and i never ever saw that sense of islamic unity in richmond hill and yes the jewish Atmosphere was strong but what was worse was the constant modern iranian atmosphere hurled at you everywhere u went. I couldnt find many hala resaurants and they the Indian ones were very expensive and a rip off. Lucky for my i like chelo kebab and pizza and even so there was only one or two places for these that i felt was totally halal but even one of them played pop music.

Also i felt the youth males were very sexist in terms of not taking womens opinions seriously. I found this shocking even about a convert i knew of.

It was too hot in the summer. I was told not to take my baby out until after 6 pm. In winter i was snowed in for weeks cos i didnt drive and it was FREEZING.

I found driving ther terrible even though i had 8 years of experience and was a pretty good driver. The straight roads drove me dizzy and often places are very hazardous even on good days of weather.

I often tried to do things with my little un but found so many obstcals and lack of facilities.

I think i wouldve searched everywhere to find someone like you there. I often held events in my small home there and i tried really hard to settle but the women were so different. All they wanted to talk about was what the moque was holding for ladies. Even though i was the host, i would sit and wonder at my guests and inside i would feel like SCREAMING about how boring they were. I would often walk and think "Is this my life?". I just couldnt go from city life to the suburbia there.

I often found educated people from overseas had bad jobs there. I would have had to requalify to do the same job even though i was educated in England. I used to look into the practices and really i wouldnt have wanted to work there cos it seemed so boring. Nothing like the practices here. Everything was empty. England is a very cosy place. People care. I care about my neighbours and they care about me even though they are not muslim. I would help my friends as much as i could and in canada i found a lot of 'turning a blind eye' cos they didnt wanna get involved. I saw a bit of curruption with my own eyes with well known person involved in a sensitive part of community work. No one does anything.

Why is it so hard to get residency there? Amazing. The country needs a culture boom and they need to stop limiting imigrants to only iranians. Where are are our african brothers and sisters? And our Malaysians? Where are our south americans? I think the somialians wear their hijab well there.

I have heard scarbourough is better but when i visted there, i felt very sad for the people.

Basically i found canada was like england 20 years ago when there were very few immigrants here. So for OP if u remember cricklwood 20 years ago when it was only engliah and irish and the odd black person and the odd pakistani, then that basically was my experience of canada. What i would advise it that u go and trial the country for a few months. You might love it but you might not. Dontget me wrong when i left canada i missed a few things like the fact that i could drink water from the taps and that the strrets were clean and its was 'beautiful' in the people and the land asthetically. I am not a huge fan of england and can find loads and loads of faults but i find it better than canada in terms of religious and cultural atmosphere.

Salaam

Edited by Veiled

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(salam)

As I said I have been frequently visiting London for usually 1 month stays ever since 1994/5, at times even alone - and every time I go there the place just seems to get worse and worse. Fortunately for me I have more than enough family that has been living in London for more than 3 decades to tell me that it is not what it used to be and in fact is getting worse and worse. They are always talking about how they have had enough of the city and not just family but also friends who reside in London suggest the same remarks and would be more than happy to leave the city. You seem to be the odd case to be bigging up London to this extent and defaming Toronto to such an extent on the contrary. The city isn't bad at all, the country is still ranked around #4 in the human development index ratings while the UK is down at #17. Not to mention Canada had ranked #1 for 7 straight years in a row.

We may travel more than twice the distance but the amount of time you guys have to stay on the roads to travel half the distance due to traffic and tiny roads wastes just as much gas if not more. Oh yes, don't forget those congestion charges either. Transportation is limited (though it covers all of the main parts of the Greater Toronto Area) maybe because the city is still new and not prehistoric like London; at least it's not ugly and stinky like the London transportation and not confusing either - everything is in straight lines here. It also seems that the female species is confused. First you have some who are demanding PhD and won't get married if the men don't have a PhD as the minimum education qualification and then all of a sudden education is not worth something that a man or woman should be judged by. And god cucumbers are not $3, where on earth where you buying your cucumbers from! They are the size of my arm and they cost perhaps a dollar (like 79 cents per pound) from NoFrills.

As for your Hijab paragraph; I really have doubts as to whether you were living in Toronto or in Aalm-e-Misal. And surely if you can compare the Shias of Toronto based on one community (which isn't all that bad as you have made it out to be as I've been there many times besides Muharram) then why can't I judge the hijabis based on Edgware and Southall. Also I've been to Stanmore and Islamic Centre many times and I didn't see much difference in the way programs are set up and the kind of people that were attending the mosques and the way the females were dressed, in contrast to the mosque I attend or the various other mosques in Toronto.

As for Mutah, once again I don't know where you are getting your Mutah information from. I've been living here for almost a decade and people other then me have been living here a lot longer and we haven't felt this "mutah-vibe" that you seem to be describing. Anyhow, if that seems to be the case from your experience, I don't see how it's a bad thing considering Mutah is halal.

At the end of the day, you are over-rating London way too much and under-rating Toronto and it's Shia community way too much. London is not a city that many of us are not familiar with. A lot of us have visited there many times and also have many, many relatives and family members living there from whom we can receive ground reality as well. Seems that you were just unlucky, demanding too much at times and/or perhaps even being too judgmental; while you know very well that London isn't all that either.

I think if anything, the OP should just come and check the city for themselves for two weeks or so and decide for themselves, which is what many people do before they decide to officially immigrate over.

Wassalam

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'Aal-e-Imran'

As I said I have been frequently visiting London for usually 1 month stays ever since 1994/5, at times even alone - and every time I go there the place just seems to get worse and worse. Fortunately for me I have more than enough family that has been living in London for more than 3 decades to tell me that it is not what it used to be and in fact is getting worse and worse. They are always talking about how they have had enough of the city and not just family but also friends who reside in London suggest the same remarks and would be more than happy to leave the city. You seem to be the odd case to be bigging up London to this extent and defaming Toronto to such an extent on the contrary. The city isn't bad at all, the country is still ranked around #4 in the human development index ratings while the UK is down at #17. Not to mention Canada had ranked #1 for 7 straight years in a row.

Brother ive lived here for almost three generations. My dad has been here for 6 generations. yes london is not the best of cities but way better than toronto. Again visiting or a month every year is not the same as living there day to day. You were probably a guest and tourist. I never bigged up London in anyway that its not known for worldwide. Everyone knows London is more islamically aware than canada and everyone knows that we have heritage and are very muslitcultural and everyone knows that london is one of the top places for trends.

We may travel more than twice the distance but the amount of time you guys have to stay on the roads to travel half the distance due to traffic and tiny roads wastes just as much gas if not more. Transportation is limited (though it covers all of the main parts of the Greater Toronto Area) maybe because the city is still new and not prehistoric like London; at least it's not ugly and stinky like the London transportation and not confusing either - everything is in straight lines here. It also seems that the female species is confused. First you have some who are demanding PhD and won't get married if the men don't have a PhD as the minimum education qualification and then all of a sudden education is not worth something that a man or woman should be judged by.

yes parts of london is dirty but so are parts of canada. Even in richmond hill had unswept roads. I like the way u use prehistoric. I like the way toronto tries and builds buildings to try and have some culture (when their natural culture and heritage has been stripped and wiped out). The place looks weired. That russian temple looks odd. The churches look odd? Where do u get ur architects from???? Dont even get me started on FM cuture there.

As for your Hijab paragraph; I really have doubts as to whether you were living in Toronto or in Aalm-e-Misal. And surely if you can compare the Shias of Toronto based on one community (which isn't all that bad as you have made it out to be as I've been there many times besides Muharram) then why can't I judge the hijabis based on Edgware and Southall. Also I've been to Stanmore and Islamic Centre many times and I didn't see much difference in the way programs are set up and the kind of people that were attending the mosques and the way the females were dressed, in contrast to the mosque I attend or the various other mosques in Toronto.

I already told u why u cant compare unlike streets with eachother. You are comparing bayview ISLAMIC centre with Southhall which is predominatntly SHEIKH. Islamic centre is known for the place where anyone can go and even i have heard that the iranians come in miniskirts. I was talking about a khoja mosque. And are you saying that i imagined being the only asian or hijabi? What are you trying to suggest? Maybe what u and i call hijab are different. maybe u found a place chaper than nofrills.

As for Mutah, once again I don't know where you are getting your Mutah information from. I've been living here for almost a decade and people other then me have been living here a lot longer and we haven't felt this "mutah-vibe" that you seem to be describing. Anyhow, if that seems to be the case from your experience, I don't see how it's a bad thing considering Mutah is halal.

Then why say its not happening? Be proud of it. I lived in Richmond hill. maybe it was just the shia there. I didnt find it amonsgt the pakistani people that i knew. You probably didnt know the youth i knew. My information is from personal experience of friends and family.

At the end of the day, you are over-rating London way too much and under-rating Toronto way too much. Seems that you were just unlucky, demanding too much at times and/or perhaps even being too judgmental; while you know very well that London isn't all that either.

Not really cos i just said im not a huge fan of london either. And i already realised i was unlucky to be involved in that part of candian life.

I think if anything, the OP should just come and check the city for themselves for two weeks or so and decide for themselves which is what many people do before they decide to officially immigrate over.

A couple of months at least.

Salaam

Edited by Veiled

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(salam)

Everyone knows London is more islamically aware than canada and everyone knows that we have heritage and are very muslitcultural and everyone knows that london is one of the top places for trends.

Man, did you watch Ahmedinijad on Larry King Live. Larry King said to Ahmedinijad that the world thinks Iran is a threat and he replied back saying what world are you talking about. So really, who is this everyone that knows London is more Islamically aware than Canada :blink:. The place is swarming with poisonous Wahabis, a very huge population of uneducated ignorant ulema bashing Malangs, confused souls and gangsta wannabe Shias in the midst, Shia Sheesha Hijabis and then some where you have your chadar wearing sisters of CYC. MashAllah @ them, they should keep it up. If I was to move to London and got associated with any of the former groups I mentioned I would have came back and stated the same thing that you are saying while perhaps ignoring another major part of the community that is not what I think they are. In other words, the world doesn't revolve around a certain area or certain people. And just because London has more Shias - you will naturally see more activities - doesn't mean they are more religious than Canadian Shias. But I'm glad you at least realize that you may have just been a bit unlucky on what you experienced in Canada.

when their natural culture and heritage has been stripped and wiped out

That is our culture; the fact that we are the most multicultural city in the world as ranked by the UN, we don't have one culture (where you get fined for removing certain bricks or for painting over a wall that represents the apparent heritage). And man, cucumbers are not $3, where on earth where you buying your cucumbers from! My dad doesn't live in the country and my mom leaves the country all the time and I have to do the grocery shopping so I know that the cucumbers are the size of my arm and they cost perhaps a dollar (like 79 cents per pound) from NoFrills. Anyways, food may be a expensive to a limited and manageable extent, how ever I don't recall anything else being cheaper. Living, accommodation, transportation, clothing: they are all a lot more expensive in London.

Then why say its not happening? Be proud of it. I lived in Richmond hill. maybe it was just the shia there.

I'm not saying anything, but in the past I've realized that a lot of these stories just happen to be rumors. You claim that it's happening so I said where is it happening as I've not felt this notion. If it is happening I have nothing against it, but for some reason you put it as one of the negatives in your initial post. Pakistani Shia do not usually know about Mutah in the first place and once they learn about it, it's not a topic that is usually discussed in the homes or in the community in general. But I have not only been living around Pakistani or Indian Shias and their youth and being a youth, having gone through not only the secondary education system in schools but also presently in a post-secondary environment and fairly active among the youths of the community, would give me an edge in knowing what exactly is going on amongst the youth or not - just like you have an edge of having lived in both cities. Reality is, people love to talk and want something to talk about, people love to hype things up, love to spread rumors and most of all people love to gossip. Regardless, if you have received valid information about teens doing Mutah then once again I don't see what's so wrong about it. I'm sure you don't want them to be doing whatever it is that they are doing with Mutah, without a Mutah.

Wassalam

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I'd rather live in a country where people will also pray Jumma instead of doing matam at Jumma Namaz time. Experienced in Blackburn when I visited that country. How racist? You could have named a city Black or DarkChocolate but instead you gotta name it BlackBURN? wah

Besides even though gas prices are high everywhere Id rather pay $1.19 than like 2pounds which is seriously dumb.

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Canada has the best quality of life. In fact, Canada is ranked the best place to live by the United Nations for 7 years in a row now. We also have the best reputation in the world for welcoming immigrants.

P.s Canadian invented the blackberry!

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Canada has the best quality of life. In fact, Canada is ranked the best place to live by the United Nations for 7 years in a row now. We also have the best reputation in the world for welcoming immigrants.

P.s Canadian invented the blackberry!

I found canada very behind technoligically. Things that were out in london 2 years were still rare to find in canada. i remember when someone i knew was amased with my bros mobile that took pics! My bro told him that he took his old one with him and his new one takes videos ( this was 2004) and he was like "woah man, really'?"

I'd rather live in a country where people will also pray Jumma instead of doing matam at Jumma Namaz time. Experienced in Blackburn when I visited that country. How racist? You could have named a city Black or DarkChocolate but instead you gotta name it BlackBURN? wah

Besides even though gas prices are high everywhere Id rather pay $1.19 than like 2pounds which is seriously dumb.

Yeah i found stingyness too there..JOKE well 1/2 joke.

YYou think thats racist. i like the way indians from INDIA have to be called "BROWN". yet its offensive to canadians when i say black or white. Cos to them it African American. not all black people are from america. You think londons racist, have you been through pearson international lately?

Id rather do azardari in a place that doesnt have a bar in it.

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Aal e imran

Man, did you watch Ahmedinijad on Larry King Live. Larry King said to Ahmedinijad that the world thinks Iran is a threat and he replied back saying what world are you talking about. So really, who is this everyone that knows London is more Islamically aware than Canada :blink:. The place is swarming with poisonous Wahabis, a very huge population of uneducated ignorant ulema bashing Malangs, confused souls and gangsta wannabe Shias in the midst, Shia Sheesha Hijabis and then some where you have your chadar wearing sisters of CYC. MashAllah @ them, they should keep it up. If I was to move to London and got associated with any of the former groups I mentioned I would have came back and stated the same thing that you are saying while perhaps ignoring another major part of the community that is not what I think they are. In other words, the world doesn't revolve around a certain area or certain people. And just because London has more Shias - you will naturally see more activities - doesn't mean they are more religious than Canadian Shias. But I'm glad you at least realize that you may have just been a bit unlucky on what you experienced in Canada.

CYC : I live in Cricklewood. U really dont know london at all as a resident.

I dont have a habit of watching larry king, so no i didnt see it. I found it amusing when i watched fareignheit 911 with some shia and they were shocked at the graphic images and they didnt realise the behaviour of soldiers was so cruel. What planet do they live on. I had to get BBC news installed there and even that was highly sensored. There was a period wher i didnt have Tv and Internet and i felt totally alientated. I tried listening to radio and that was no use as to what was happening outside of canada.

Okay i dont know what part of canada you live in but the people i knew had done drugs and time and a whole lot of other stuff.

That is our culture; the fact that we are the most multicultural city in the world as ranked by the UN, we don't have one culture (where you get fined for removing certain bricks or for painting over a wall that represents the apparent heritage). And man, cucumbers are not $3, where on earth where you buying your cucumbers from! My dad doesn't live in the country and my mom leaves the country all the time and I have to do the grocery shopping so I know that the cucumbers are the size of my arm and they cost perhaps a dollar (like 79 cents per pound) from NoFrills. Anyways, food may be a expensive to a limited and manageable extent, how ever I don't recall anything else being cheaper. Living, accommodation, transportation, clothing: they are all a lot more expensive in London.

really by the UN? Funny i didnt witness much multiculturism. I didnt see any culture that was on public display except the yonge street santa parade and the isreali flag on people cars and ofcourse freemasonry signs.

I did the shopping too. No frills, the local guy who sells out of his van and occasionally lablaws (when i felt like shopping like normal people). The cucumbers were three dollars in NO frills many times. Wonderbread white id 2.69 at nofrills. tell me that cream cheese isnt 4$ at nofrills. You can pay 6 or 7 dollars for a box of kellogs cereal. I also found in canada, there wasnt as much choice in foodstuffs.

But yes rent is very cheap. CLOTHING IS MORE EXPENSIVE.

I'm not saying anything, but in the past I've realized that a lot of these stories just happen to be rumors. You claim that it's happening so I said where is it happening as I've not felt this notion. If it is happening I have nothing against it, but for some reason you put it as one of the negatives in your initial post. Pakistani Shia do not usually know about Mutah in the first place and once they learn about it, it's not a topic that is usually discussed in the homes or in the community in general. But I have not only been living around Pakistani or Indian Shias and their youth and being a youth, having gone through not only the secondary education system in schools but also presently in a post-secondary environment and fairly active among the youths of the community, would give me an edge in knowing what exactly is going on amongst the youth or not - just like you have an edge of having lived in both cities. Reality is, people love to talk and want something to talk about, people love to hype things up, love to spread rumors and most of all people love to gossip. Regardless, if you have received valid information about teens doing Mutah then once again I don't see what's so wrong about it. I'm sure you don't want them to be doing whatever it is that they are doing with Mutah, without a Mutah.

yeah i got this with my pakistani friends. I found a mutah trend rather than nikah thrend even in guys in their mid twenties. And a lack of maturity. Isnt the divorce rate high their high too? My experience is from just that PERSONAL experience. It was a part of my life. Thats why i know its not all romours. I witnessed it. Actually if they were doing mutah to mutah standards it would be fine but im talking about going into a bar on laylatul on the most holy nights of ramadhan and chatting up a persian woman mutah....see the difference? I have many more personal experiences than just this one.

Salaam

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yaaras Toronto is a much better place...clean...nice weather...not much crime at all no baare of keyness and wa the hek allow mutah over there...good community ...Tim Horton or wtver that place is called...only reason the londoners say that London is better is coz we live here and were used to it? otherwise lol it doesnt beat it!

Look yeah... Allow London

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Windsor (where the hawzah is)

(salam)

Windsor is in Ontario right....close to Toronto? What is the hawza like? How is the quality of teaching there? Judging by the website, it seems to be pretty bad lol. Do you know roughly how many people are enrolled in the hawza and whether there are many females who do it? I hear there are some hawza's in the UK aswell...perhaps you've seen those...how does the hawza in Windsor compare to the hawza's in the UK? Your answers would be appreciated yaar.

Canada has the best quality of life. In fact, Canada is ranked the best place to live by the United Nations for 7 years in a row now. We also have the best reputation in the world for welcoming immigrants.

P.s Canadian invented the blackberry!

Really? You got a source for that buddy? :P I mean the best place to live thing, not the migrant thing lol. But yeah, I've always found Canada very appealing, & have been thinking about moving there lately.....if only I can get my whole family to move over there with me :donno:

wasalaam

Edited by ~RuQaYaH~

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