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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why?

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Salam Alaikoam

Why is it a law that it is okay to chop off someones hands and feet, behead them , whip them or stone them when true justice is about being accountable and recieving preventative excellent Education, Counseling, Consultation and Medical Attention?

Jesus forbid the stoning of people why did Mohammed PBUH refute the wisdom of Jesus?

In this day and age it is only stone age people that do such things.

Just my thoughts.

Salam

Edited by amlh2000
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Jesus forbid the stoning of people why did Mohammed PBUH refute the wisdom of Jesus?

w/s

are u muslim because this doesn't sound islamic at all?????????? are you an agent or something here to cause confusion on this website?

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Bigger question: Why did God bring down the laws telling us to carry out these punishments? He specifically told such things to Prophet Moses (pbuh) too, if you care to take a look in your bible.

You're talking to us about something in the New Testament, which, for your information, is a book neither we nor the Jews believe in. How do you know for sure that this event happened?

If this story is true then the likely reason that Jesus (pbuh) forbade her stoning was the lack of evidence for it. Just because a gang of people and some rabbis come to you with a story that's not solid evidence.

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Salam Alaikoam

Why is it a law that it is okay to chop off someones hands and feet, behead them , whip them or stone them when true justice is about being accountable and recieving preventative excellent Education, Counseling, Consultation and Medical Attention?

Jesus forbid the stoning of people why did Mohammed PBUH refute the wisdom of Jesus?

In this day and age it is only stone age people that do such things.

Just my thoughts.

Salam

Who told you the Islamic system does not advocate preventative education, counselling, medical attention? You seem to be missing a few pieces of the puzzle.

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first i want you to think of a few things here my brother.......

IF (and this is an if) the story is true then it only confirms our beliefs my brother... elhumdolillah...... allow me to explain......

the Prophet Isa (as) said and I quote..... " whoever is without sin cast the first stone" now, the words were thus..... he did not forbade it.... he did not tell the people it was wrong to have stoned the woman he only say to the people that this is a punishment (the hudud punishments) that ONLY a Ma'sum (as) can carry out...... the Prophet Isa (as) did not himself carry this punishment out simply on the basis that this was not what he was sent by Allah for..... the prophet Isa (as) said he did not come to change the law but to fulfill the law...... well, the hudud punishments were in the old testement..... and he was not changing them but only convicting the people of what they had been in error of..... he only said the hudud has to be carried out by a Mas'sum.....this was one place where the people had been in error obviously...... if the text and story is to be believed......

we also believe the same...... at least a good portion of the ulema feel the hudud punishments such as stoning for adultry and apostacy has to have the approval of a Ma'sum......so this teaching of the Prophet Isa (as) does seem to fall into line with our teachings as well.......

I hope this was of some help to you.;.... if you care to discuss the hudud punishments further and why our beliefs are thus then we can continue and learn further.....

Imed14

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amlh2000, you're refering to pericope adulterae at Gospel of John 7:53 - 8:11 right?

Do you know that majority Biblical scholars today consider it as spurious because early codex such as Codex Vaticanus & Codex Sinaitus didn't contain it?

So, according to Biblical scholars themselves, there was no solid proof that this incident really happened.

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Salam Alaikoam

Why is it a law that it is okay to chop off someones hands and feet, behead them , whip them or stone them when true justice is about being accountable and recieving preventative excellent Education, Counseling, Consultation and Medical Attention?

Jesus forbid the stoning of people why did Mohammed PBUH refute the wisdom of Jesus?

In this day and age it is only stone age people that do such things.

Just my thoughts.

Salam

Regardless if this person is Christian, Jew, Hindu or an Israeli agent it doesn't take away from the fact that this is a good question. He was respectful and did not approach anyone in a negative way however the responses from some of you Muslims are silly. If someone stopped you out in public and asked you this question would you respond in the same way? LOL I think its a great question and I a Muslim, would like to read a responsible and logical response to this brother's question because I too would like to know. Just because Allah (swt) said so in the Quran doesn't take away from the fact that we are curious as to WHY? I know there are some questions we wont have answered until Qiyamat, but we can still wonder and those who may have some insight can offer better responses than "Are you an agent?"

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Regardless if this person is Christian, Jew, Hindu or an Israeli agent it doesn't take away from the fact that this is a good question. He was respectful and did not approach anyone in a negative way however the responses from some of you Muslims are silly. If someone stopped you out in public and asked you this question would you respond in the same way? LOL I think its a great question and I a Muslim, would like to read a responsible and logical response to this brother's question because I too would like to know. Just because Allah (swt) said so in the Quran doesn't take away from the fact that we are curious as to WHY? I know there are some questions we wont have answered until Qiyamat, but we can still wonder and those who may have some insight can offer better responses than "Are you an agent?"

well.... brother i myself only answered on what i know as regards laws etc...... why is often times conjecture....... but i will add my 2 cents in conjecture and opinion as to why there is punishment of any kind......

we should think of it this way.... there are laws..... however, without any consequence for breaking those laws then what is the point of making laws to begin with if, no matter what the people do, it makes no difference.

then we must ask ourselves why are there laws of any kind,..... well... one must then think of what any lawless society would be..... rape murder incest stealing.... these things hurt others and society at large has to pay the consequences of a bad persons actions.... so how does Allah prevent this kind of thing, (as we are agents of free will), answer... he makes laws, then gives consequence of breaking such laws as a deterrent to breaking them.....Allah is all merciful.... but also is He completely just..... one cannot separate one aspect form the other......and in Justice you judge in accordance to action, and punish or not punish accordingly......these punishments may seem barbaric to you..... but what are the consequences of not having any punishment in society.?.... and how much the better if the punishment is enough to act as a real deterrent to crime........?

now one must look to the justice also of the Imams (as) as an example as well..... they showed mercy more often than not.... they were never quick to punish but rather quick in forgiveness........ any punishment was only ever used as a last resort and never was anything left out.......

once a man he masterbated .... he went to the Imam (as) and the and told of what he had done.... the Imam (as) asked him why he did this thing knowing it was wrong.... so the man explained how he was a poor man and could not afford a wife and he worked very hard but still could not afford to marry...... in the end.... the Imam (as) thus hit him on the back of his hands til they were red and then ordered the state to pay for the dowery for this man a wife and set them up in a house.......

there are many many many stories like this where there was nothing but forgiveness and charity form the Imams (and im sorry but this was the only one i remembered word for word from heart)...... but there is more forgiveness and education and working towards a solving of problems in islam than anything else.......

the more we study of ahadeeth and look at how the infallible Imams (as) lived and ruled the more you will see the beauty of islam...... it is not just punishment.... it is much much more......

many they liek to point out of context things without ever giving you the clear and whole picture,..... but, when one looks deeper he will find they speak in half truths.... especially as he discovers True Islam..... the reliigon of the Prophet (pbuh) made perfect on the plains of ghadeer....... elhumdolillah we are Shia and we follow the Pure Imams (as) and the Prophet of Allah (pbuh)

and ..... the only stupid question is the one unasked.,..... the way we learn is to question the ones of knowledge..... machallah you are doing only what Allah has taught us........ may Allah guide you to all truth inchallah amin....

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well.... brother i myself only answered on what i know as regards laws etc...... why is often times conjecture....... but i will add my 2 cents in conjecture and opinion as to why there is punishment of any kind......

we should think of it this way.... there are laws..... however, without any consequence for breaking those laws then what is the point of making laws to begin with if, no matter what the people do, it makes no difference.

then we must ask ourselves why are there laws of any kind,..... well... one must then think of what any lawless society would be..... rape murder incest stealing.... these things hurt others and society at large has to pay the consequences of a bad persons actions.... so how does Allah prevent this kind of thing, (as we are agents of free will), answer... he makes laws, then gives consequence of breaking such laws as a deterrent to breaking them.....Allah is all merciful.... but also is He completely just..... one cannot separate one aspect form the other......and in Justice you judge in accordance to action, and punish or not punish accordingly......these punishments may seem barbaric to you..... but what are the consequences of not having any punishment in society.?.... and how much the better if the punishment is enough to act as a real deterrent to crime........?

now one must look to the justice also of the Imams (as) as an example as well..... they showed mercy more often than not.... they were never quick to punish but rather quick in forgiveness........ any punishment was only ever used as a last resort and never was anything left out.......

once a man he masterbated .... he went to the Imam (as) and the and told of what he had done.... the Imam (as) asked him why he did this thing knowing it was wrong.... so the man explained how he was a poor man and could not afford a wife and he worked very hard but still could not afford to marry...... in the end.... the Imam (as) thus hit him on the back of his hands til they were red and then ordered the state to pay for the dowery for this man a wife and set them up in a house.......

there are many many many stories like this where there was nothing but forgiveness and charity form the Imams (and im sorry but this was the only one i remembered word for word from heart)...... but there is more forgiveness and education and working towards a solving of problems in islam than anything else.......

the more we study of ahadeeth and look at how the infallible Imams (as) lived and ruled the more you will see the beauty of islam...... it is not just punishment.... it is much much more......

many they liek to point out of context things without ever giving you the clear and whole picture,..... but, when one looks deeper he will find they speak in half truths.... especially as he discovers True Islam..... the reliigon of the Prophet (pbuh) made perfect on the plains of ghadeer....... elhumdolillah we are Shia and we follow the Pure Imams (as) and the Prophet of Allah (pbuh)

and ..... the only stupid question is the one unasked.,..... the way we learn is to question the ones of knowledge..... machallah you are doing only what Allah has taught us........ may Allah guide you to all truth inchallah amin....

B) B) B) B) B) B) B) B)

Alaikoam Salam everyone!

I amlh2000 am a sister! LOL

When I studied Islamic traditions at university Dr. Jamal Badawi said that really these laws are a last resort and the forgiveness is best.

Also in the class it was said that an educated person in this day would not do such punishments because this is a new day and we are a wiser, kinder people.

Myself I believe that Education, Counseling, Consultation and Medical Attention are the true keys to justice next to understanding, forgiveness and accountability.

I am not trashing the laws but just saying are we not more civilized in this day and have more options to consider rather than inflicting more suffering, pain and grief.

Everyone has a story and each year is a chapter and each day is an ayat in the Quran of Life.

Salam

Anne Marie Elderkin

Edited by amlh2000
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well we most certainly as shi3a (please not we have different laws and traditions than the sunnah peoples) are more interested in the betterment of society through education and care and we are always the ones to stand against any and all kinds of oppression!!!!!!!!!!

we are not backwards in any way..... but we are a religious people and we do follow the laws of Allah sister..........

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well we most certainly as shi3a (please not we have different laws and traditions than the sunnah peoples) are more interested in the betterment of society through education and care and we are always the ones to stand against any and all kinds of oppression!!!!!!!!!!

we are not backwards in any way..... but we are a religious people and we do follow the laws of Allah sister..........

Alaikoam Salam

Brother so what exactly are Shia Laws? I have never read a hadeath or any passage in the Quran that says this is Shia and this is Sunni???

I am aware there are 140 different versions of Islam depending what sect you are.

So obviously Islam does accept innovations.

Brother where is an online lybrary to see these texts?

I am not here to quarrel but to share how I understand Islam and learn how you understand Islam.

The Islam I believe in has core beliefs and in the rest of it there is room for personal and spiritual growth.

Islam is not caste in stone it is ever evolving according to my understanding and belief.

All the Best!

Salam

Anne Marie Elderkin

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Salam Alaikoam

Why is it a law that it is okay to chop off someones hands and feet, behead them , whip them or stone them when true justice is about being accountable and recieving preventative excellent Education, Counseling, Consultation and Medical Attention?

Jesus forbid the stoning of people why did Mohammed PBUH refute the wisdom of Jesus?

In this day and age it is only stone age people that do such things.

Just my thoughts.

Salam

There are a number of conditions that must be met before a person can be stoned, beheaded, fingers cut off, etc.

However, if these conditions are met, I have no problem with lashing someone if it will lower the amount of fornication in the land. Why? Because fornication does far more damage to society than lashing. Fornication destroys trust and tears families apart, so what happens when you destroy the household? Look at the social situation in America.

etc etc

Salam

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