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Binte.Ali

Discussing Religious Views

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(salam)

One of the biggest challenges for me regarding 'Marriage' is discussing my religious views with a prospective spouse. Just being Shia isn't enough for me, and I find it important to know what his views are regarding certain areas in Islam.

It should be simple to talk about such things under other circumstances, but for a person who is part of the 'Arranged Marriage' Culture, its hard to discuss these issues with the family, parents (esp if you think they don't match your views), and eventually the prospective spouse.

My main concerns are regarding cultural influence, and how much of it effects the guy and his family. Do they do things the way they do because its what Society has been doing for all these years? Does he know Islam for himself, or is he just doing what his parents have taught him? Does he question things he doesn't understand; his views regarding Zanjeer Zani; is he open minded towards other sects in Islam (e.g: Sunni) . . . these kinds of things can change I suppose, but a lot of times they dont, and it can become a huge issue to deal with after marriage (esp once you have kids).

I remember my father once telling me that these kinds of things need to be adjusted to (by me). It's not something that can be openly and easily discussed with the other side (i.e. the guy's family). I really don't think that is fair. My faith is something that that I am definitely not willing to compromise.

What can a person do in a situations like these?

Edited by Binte.Ali

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:blink: you cant discuss these? Like that makes no sense to me. You SHOULD be discussing these. You dont want to marry some Tom Richard Harry. you should know the person. Just ask him directly. Is he trying to hide his religious beliefs? I dont understand why you cant discuss your beliefs with a person.

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^

I haven't been put into such a situation yet . . . I just think it would good if I had some ideas if I end up in a situation like this.

And you'd be surprise what the Khoja community is capable of :dry: . . . especially if a girl has views that don't match the masses.

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What can a person do in a situations like these?

Listen ....... all you need to do is open your mouth....throw some questions and get the answers......then either say 'yes' or 'no' to the proposal..........OR ELSE PLAY BLUFF AND TAKE RISK.......

But you really need to have the gall to ask all this in our society....!!!!

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So, let me guess... ur quite liberal in ur views.... and u dont wanna end up with someone who is hard core shia nor with someone who doesnt care much abt religion!

Actually, not quite. It's more about the different types of beliefs. For example, a person may be against Zanjeer Zani/Matam. They don't believe that it is the proper way to grieve for Imam Hussain (as) 's Martyrdom, whereas another person feels that the only way to repay Imam Hussain (as) 's blood is to shed their own in this manner. This can end up being a huge issue for a couple, if say the husband wants his kids to do Zanjeer Zani/Matam and the mother does not (or vice versa).

This is just one thing. There are plenty of other things. Like how much they believe in Unity among Muslims, or do they enjoy 'Bashing the Sunni Beliefs'. The boy and girl may both be 'Hard Core Shia', but with just different takes on things.

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But you really need to have the gall to ask all this in our society....!!!!

That's what I'm sayin! Our messed up society makes it seem like it's haram to have different thoughts from theirs. I remember mentioning to one of my family members back home that the Ayatul Kursi is only the first ayat (255), and the following two verses are recommended... and they were like ... OMG you're reciting the Sunni version! They only recite half of it, we recite the 'full' three verses. I was like wha? :huh: .. I tried explaining things, but ended up being called Anti-Shia :dry:

Edited by Binte.Ali

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That's what I'm sayin! Our messed up society makes it seem like it's haram to have different thoughts from theirs. I remember mentioning to one of my family members back home that the Ayatul Kursi is only the first ayat (255), and the following two verses are recommended... and they were like ... OMG you're reciting the Sunni version! They only recite half of it, we recite the 'full' three verses. I was like wha? .. I tried explaining things, but ended up being called Anti-Shia

Thats where we need to be a bit careful.In my view I would definetly stand against any wrong notion within our society.No matter what.I really dont care.But once again it all depends on how you approach your people to make them feel their mistake.It has to be done in such a way that the message is conveyed nicely and they are able to grasp it.

In researching any issue or case I look at both the sides of the coin before drawing any conclusions.

But remember one thing that never compromise on principles.......and get the facts right........the rest what ever people say show your resistence but with logic and reasoning so its more effective.

;)

In your issue of Ayat-ul-Qursi well I will never protray you as an anti-shia .But you will agree on one thing that any act of good or Zikr should be done maximum(in the best recommended way told by the Infallibles{a.s}).So that we get the best Sawab out of it.Now by you not reciting the (I would call) shia version of Ayat-ul-Qursi doesnt make you non-believer or a sinner or a weird person but at the end you are missing the sawab of the Ayats you dont recite.Its as simple as that.............If you are lookin for more sawab and correct way or i would say the proper way of doing things then better follow the ways and traditions of the Infallibles.I hope you agree to my view.....?

Edited by rambo007

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Assalamalaikum,

If you don't get at least 50 marriage proposals after that post the brothers are stupid.

seconded. -_-

Look, this happens to be a serious dilemma for me. I don't have a lot of time to figure out this problem on my own, which is why I'm asking for some help. If you've got some advice, share it.

Thats where we need to be a bit careful.In my view I would definetly stand against any wrong notion within our society.No matter what.I really dont care.But once again it all depends on how you approach your people to make them feel their mistake.It has to be done in such a way that the message is conveyed nicely and they are able to grasp it.

In researching any issue or case I look at both the sides of the coin before drawing any conclusions.

But remember one thing that never compromise on principles.......and get the facts right........the rest what ever people say show your resistence but with logic and reasoning so its more effective.

;)

In your issue of Ayat-ul-Qursi well I will never protray you as an anti-shia .But you will agree on one thing that any act of good or Zikr should be done maximum(in the best recommended way told by the Infallibles{a.s}).So that we get the best Sawab out of it.Now by you not reciting the (I would call) shia version of Ayat-ul-Qursi doesnt make you non-believer or a sinner or a weird person but at the end you are missing the sawab of the Ayats you dont recite.Its as simple as that.............If you are lookin for more sawab and correct way or i would say the proper way of doing things then better follow the ways and traditions of the Infallibles.I hope you agree to my view.....?

I know, I need to be extra careful in these things. I never say anything unless I know my stuff. I try not to deal with the extremely narrow-minded pple but its hard when some of them exist within ur family.

As for the Ayatul Kursi, yeah of course its more Thawab to recite the extra verses, and everyone should recite all three. I myself recite all three as well, but it shouldn't be because I'm Shia :squeez:

Some Shias say that the 'Ayatul Kursi is only complete if all three verses are recited' .. that's wrong, because that is not what is in the Ahadeeth. (Would you happen to have any ahadeeth regarding this issue? : :unsure:) Sayed Ammar's lecture about the Ayatul Kursi tells us that Imam Ali (as) has said that 'Within the 50 words of the Ayatul Kursi, there are 50 lessons to be learned' ... so obviously thats got to be only the 255.

Reciting ALL of the Verses is most beneficial, and Alhamdulillah, that is what I've always done, and will continue doing InshaAllah.

Fee Amaan Allah

Edited by Binte.Ali

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assalam-o-allaikom

having read all about your problem,what i can make out is that you are just thinking of a problem which is not there.ok fine you may be having some different views than your father,but he is your father after all and you can always tell him what do you want in your husband.he must be that much mature that he understands that it is not he but you who has to spend life with the husband.so i dont think so that your father will not keep your wishes.he is after all your father,and he cares about you the most.my humble advice would be to get help from your father and mother rather then posting here....may Allah solve your problem..and give you a good life,,,amin

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Salaam allaikum,

Sister in all honesty do these things matter that much in a marriage? Its fine to know but i doubt zanjeer is going to cause a divorce lol.

Then again i'm not from the subcontinent so take my advice with a grain of curry. :)

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As for the Ayatul Kursi, yeah of course its more Thawab to recite the extra verses, and everyone should recite all three. I myself recite all three as well, but it shouldn't be because I'm Shia

I dint get your point.......but it shouldn't be because I'm Shia ...Then how it should be?Obviously you need to see what right and wrong....But I dont get it in Ayat-ul -Qursi case......Do you have any reference....NO I Guess..so how do you justify that.

And if you agree to recite all the 3 ayats as well then where is the problem.

you see the sunni muslims dont recite the 3 ayats..OK but the shia muslims do...now the thing is if you are reciting the three ayats obviously means you are one of the shias...And if you dont you myt be known as shia or sunni.....infact a sunni tag is more certain.

Now if you are mixing tradition with a (recommended) law ,may be.........you better clear your notion.

You are trying to justify that -3 ayats is also ok to recite......I dont have any reference of Sayings or the Tradition of the Infallibles(a.s) to be anti or pro to your thinking.

Why dont you check with a Religious scholar and i will ask as well lets see what the answer is..........then we shall share....simple

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(salam)

One of the biggest challenges for me regarding 'Marriage' is discussing my religious views with a prospective spouse. Just being Shia isn't enough for me, and I find it important to know what his views are regarding certain areas in Islam.

It should be simple to talk about such things under other circumstances, but for a person who is part of the 'Arranged Marriage' Culture, its hard to discuss these issues with the family, parents (esp if you think they don't match your views), and eventually the prospective spouse.

My main concerns are regarding cultural influence, and how much of it effects the guy and his family. Do they do things the way they do because its what Society has been doing for all these years? Does he know Islam for himself, or is he just doing what his parents have taught him? Does he question things he doesn't understand; his views regarding Zanjeer Zani; is he open minded towards other sects in Islam (e.g: Sunni) . . . these kinds of things can change I suppose, but a lot of times they dont, and it can become a huge issue to deal with after marriage (esp once you have kids).

I remember my father once telling me that these kinds of things need to be adjusted to (by me). It's not something that can be openly and easily discussed with the other side (i.e. the guy's family). I really don't think that is fair. My faith is something that that I am definitely not willing to compromise.

What can a person do in a situations like these?

(wasalam)

I have the same problem! My father and I also share different views and I am afraid that he will not accept it if I marry someone according to my beliefs. Also, in my culture, the girl and boy don't usually talk to each other till after they say yes, which is something I am extremely against. It is not enough to know what family he is from and what degree he holds! I want to know his personality, I want to discuss what he thinks about culture and Islam and if he follows everything in culture just because. What does he think about women, where does he want to live? It is not fair that the girl should always change her beliefs to match her husband, why doesn't Arab culture allow the woman to speak with the man so there will not be any problems later on?

It's may not lead to divorce, but to me, a large part of how much I love my husband and how close I am to him, depends on his values, beliefs and understanding.

I hate how, if we take on just slightly different beliefs, or if we believe in unity with the Sunnis, we are called Anti-Shia. Why is it that this soceity is so restricting, so uncreative, everyone has to believe in the same hard core beliefs or you're branded as not religious, or against the teachings of Islam?

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assalam-o-allaikom

having read all about your problem,what i can make out is that you are just thinking of a problem which is not there.ok fine you may be having some different views than your father,but he is your father after all and you can always tell him what do you want in your husband.he must be that much mature that he understands that it is not he but you who has to spend life with the husband.so i dont think so that your father will not keep your wishes.he is after all your father,and he cares about you the most.my humble advice would be to get help from your father and mother rather then posting here....may Allah solve your problem..and give you a good life,,,amin

walaikum as salaam

It may seem non-existent right now, but I have seen and know of many cases in which the girl has had to compromise her faith because of her In-laws. The only difference with me is that I don't know the exact situation I'm going to be in. Insha'Allah, it won't be, but seeing as how my culture and family tradition works, I don't think I'm going to be able to find out for myself his points of views until after I give my consent. Its a twisted work of culture.

I know he cares about me most, and please don't assume that I'm disrespecting him in any way. I care for him more than anything in the world, which has almost made me bend my beliefs. I have my mother's help, Alhamdulillah, but sometimes even mothers can't have a say when fathers have said what they want to say.

Jazak'Allah for the duas. And to you too. :)

Salaam allaikum,

Sister in all honesty do these things matter that much in a marriage? Its fine to know but i doubt zanjeer is going to cause a divorce lol.

Then again i'm not from the subcontinent so take my advice with a grain of curry. :)

(wasalam)

Do these things matter? lol you're joking right?

If you mean does Zanjeer Matam matter, well that was just an example I was giving. But actually, sometimes even the most minute things can ruin a marriage, especially if they touch upon Faith.

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I dint get your point.......but it shouldn't be because I'm Shia ...Then how it should be?Obviously you need to see what right and wrong....But I dont get it in Ayat-ul -Qursi case......Do you have any reference....NO I Guess..so how do you justify that.

And if you agree to recite all the 3 ayats as well then where is the problem.

you see the sunni muslims dont recite the 3 ayats..OK but the shia muslims do...now the thing is if you are reciting the three ayats obviously means you are one of the shias...And if you dont you myt be known as shia or sunni.....infact a sunni tag is more certain.

Now if you are mixing tradition with a (recommended) law ,may be.........you better clear your notion.

You are trying to justify that -3 ayats is also ok to recite......I dont have any reference of Sayings or the Tradition of the Infallibles(a.s) to be anti or pro to your thinking.

Why dont you check with a Religious scholar and i will ask as well lets see what the answer is..........then we shall share....simple

Wait wait wait... you're making an omelet of what I'm trying to say:

What I'm trying to say is that WHY IS IT A SUNNI SHIA THING?! Why does a person who recites the 3 Verses HAVE TO BE SHIA? and why does a person who recites only the first verse automatically have to tagged as a Sunni? This is what I'm trying to say. I don't care if I'm tagged as either, because I don't care about what people judge me as. Allah swt is the Ultimate Judge of everything. I just wish people would stop using certain things as trademark Sunni or Shia acts: a most common thing in the East which has found its way to the West too! Its so frustrating and WRONG!

Check out this majalis/lecture. Its by Sayyed Ammar Nakshawani, in English. I hope it is of use to you, InshaAllah.

I am not knowledgable enough to be arguing anything, really. I am plainly giving my point of view.

Fee Amaan Allah.

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(wasalam)

I have the same problem! My father and I also share different views and I am afraid that he will not accept it if I marry someone according to my beliefs. Also, in my culture, the girl and boy don't usually talk to each other till after they say yes, which is something I am extremely against. It is not enough to know what family he is from and what degree he holds! I want to know his personality, I want to discuss what he thinks about culture and Islam and if he follows everything in culture just because. What does he think about women, where does he want to live? It is not fair that the girl should always change her beliefs to match her husband, why doesn't Arab culture allow the woman to speak with the man so there will not be any problems later on?

(salam)

THANK YOU!! Finally someone who knows where I'm coming from! :cry:

I am totally at a loss of words at ur post. You've really explained my thoughts, Sis. I wanna know these things, before I give my consent. I mean, say I agree to marry this "Doctor" or whatever, and he ends up being someone who doesn't understand or even know the Rights of Women in Islam? I mean, there are SO many people out there, who are set in their Cultural ways and consider the women inferior to men. The other day I was talking to my father about the Rights of Women, and how a woman in Islam has the right to earn her own money and support her own family even after marriage. The husband should support her in this decision should she decide to take such a step, and if her parents need her help, then she has that right. My father's reply was that 'Yes, she can, but its not something that is really approved of or liked in our Culture." I was just talking generally, and wasn't really saying that I would keep my money seperate from my husbands, ever. But should the occasion ever arise that I had to do such a thing, would my husband understand? Would he allow me (culturally, since religiously he doesn't have to)?

I find it hard for guys to relate to something like this, because its not often that the guy has to change his ways after marriage. Its usually the girl that has to make herself accept her 'fate' as some call it, and 'live with it', because 'heaven forbid' that she should come back to her parents home divorced :rolleyes: . . .

It's may not lead to divorce, but to me, a large part of how much I love my husband and how close I am to him, depends on his values, beliefs and understanding.

So true, and thats why its so important to me. I wouldn't allow myself to let an Issue get out of hand that it would lead to divorce. Views can change after marriage, and I can always hope that he would see my ways. But I think that the core of our relationship would be based on the level of our understanding.

I hate how, if we take on just slightly different beliefs, or if we believe in unity with the Sunnis, we are called Anti-Shia. Why is it that this soceity is so restricting, so uncreative, everyone has to believe in the same hard core beliefs or you're branded as not religious, or against the teachings of Islam?

Isn't that the truth! If we learn something beneficial for our soul and spirit, but if its from a Sunni source (a friend, a site, whatever) . . . Haram! We can't step foot into a Sunni Masjid and we can't believe in Unity at all, because the word isn't even in the Islamic dictionary anymore. We have to do as we've been taught by our parents, who in turn learned it from their parents, and on and on. . . if we go out looking for our own take on things, we're labelled Anti-Shia :dry:

I follow the teachings of the Ahlul-Bayt (as), and will continue doing so Insha'Allah. I've only recently started to ponder over the why's and what's, after so many years of being told that 'this is the way we do it'.

The amazing thing is not a lot of people take the time to learn what our Imams (as) have truly taught us. In the East, we are following our faith blindly. We don't take the time to understand what we are doing, what we are practicing, why we are practicing it. It's unfortunate.

And Allah (swt) Knows Best

JazakAllah Sis Sukayna866. :wub: May Allah (swt) Bless your soul.

Edited by Binte.Ali

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assalam-o-allaikom

sister just have faith in Allah and HE will do the best,inshallah.

i just have a concept and i dont know what you would think about it but the point is why should one not go for ISTIKHARA for marriage.i mean that will give the best result.

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Goodness sister, I'd never considered a situation like yours before. I'm new to Islam and have much to learn apparently! I thought my situation was bad in that my parents aren't muslim at all and obviously would highly disapprove a marriage to a Muslim man (and probably wouldn't attend the wedding, along with the rest of my relatives), but at least I can still CHOOSE who I marry, since I'm from the West. I'd never thought about situations like yours, in which you have little control over finding a spouse - your future is left in the hands of your parents, who may very well not believe the same way you do! It must be so frustrating and agonizing that you've been left so powerless with regard to your future. That doesn't only affect you, but your future children as well! It's frustrating to me that I'll lose the support and favor of my family in my marriage choice, but at least I still have control over my life and my future. This serves as an important reminder for me to be thankful for that and to not get so caught up in the negative aspects of my life!

Don't lose hope though; I'm sure God hears your prayers and understands your frustration and will make a way for you.

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What I'm trying to say is that WHY IS IT A SUNNI SHIA THING?! Why does a person who recites the 3 Verses HAVE TO BE SHIA? and why does a person who recites only the first verse automatically have to tagged as a Sunni? This is what I'm trying to say. I don't care if I'm tagged as either, because I don't care about what people judge me as. Allah swt is the Ultimate Judge of everything. I just wish people would stop using certain things as trademark Sunni or Shia acts: a most common thing in the East which has found its way to the West too! Its so frustrating and WRONG!

The reason who recities the 3 verses has to be shia thing because this thing is found only in Shia school thought.The sunnis dont recite till that.

Secondly............The things which are strongly pursued by shias only has the shia trade mark and not sunni....and vice versa....there is nothing wrong in that......

But in general issues like for eg.......Prayers,fasting,hajj....etc etc its wrong to make shia sunni thing because everyone has to do prayers....fasting ,hajj etc etc so the furoh-i-din has to followed irrespective of your sect.Till here to tagg someone as shia or sunn is wrong but the way they perform the furoh-i-din acts, thats where the shia-sunni ways come in.Thats because we follow different school of thought.You need to call water as water only and milk as milk only but you need to accept both as liquids

Well as long as you dont care what people tagg you as....its ok...there is nothing wrong in that.But yes you r right that Allah is the judge not the people.So if you think you are on the right than be it.............

And lastly....I took up the Ayat-ul-Qursi issue with the Cleric here and he said according to the religious scholars that the complete version is till 'Hom Fee Ha Kalidoon' but till 'Ali-al-azeem' is also correct.there is no harm in reciting till that Word also.Now what he replied is obviously supported by Quran And Hadith.

LIVE FOR NOTHING,DIE FOR SOMETHING...!!!

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Do these things matter? lol you're joking right?

If you mean does Zanjeer Matam matter, well that was just an example I was giving. But actually, sometimes even the most minute things can ruin a marriage, especially if they touch upon Faith.

Ask him who his marja is.

I know this sounds divisive but the fact is that we have various camps. So if he follows Ayatullah XYZ his view on zanjeer/Shia Sunni "unity" will be different from someone who follows Ayatullah ABC.

You can find out a lot about a person from the marja he follows.

Edited by Whizbee

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Ask him who his marja is.

I know this sounds divisive but the fact is that we have various camps. So if he follows Ayatullah XYZ his view on zanjeer/Shia Sunni "unity" will be different from someone who follows Ayatullah ABC.

You can find out a lot about a person from the marja he follows.

That's a bit stereotypical. Yes, there are some people who have turned the marjaiyyah into some sort of a fan club, and see themselves as being in some sort of camp to the extent where the belief in the marja seems to be more important than the belief in the Imam (as), or the belief in Allah (swt) Himself. Such people give more respect to the kuffaar and to other schools of thought than they do to somebody who happens to follow another jurist.

It's a psychological problem more than anything else. I put it down to insecurity.

On the other hand, there are those of us who refuse to turn the institution of taqleed into a dividing factor. In fact, with such a person you will often not even KNOW who they follow, simply because they respect all the fuqaha and don't view it as a dividing factor, and SECONDLY, because they've kept the taqleed to fiqh rather than to drag it into other unrelated issues.

In fact, most of the division seems to be on issues that aren't even from the furoo-ud-deen.

Edited by Asadollah

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That's a bit stereotypical. Yes, there are some people who have turned the marjaiyyah into some sort of a fan club, and see themselves as being in some sort of camp to the extent where the belief in the marja seems to be more important than the belief in the Imam (as), or the belief in Allah (swt) Himself. Such people give more respect to the kuffaar and to other schools of thought than they do to somebody who happens to follow another jurist.

It's a psychological problem more than anything else. I put it down to insecurity.

I am not talking about asking random people who their marja is. We are talking about marriage here and so you will inquire as to who the marja of your potential spouse is. We are talking about some serious issues here, things that can make or break your faith.

On the other hand, there are those of us who refuse to turn the institution of taqleed into a dividing factor. In fact, with such a person you will often not even KNOW who they follow, simply because they respect all the fuqaha and don't view it as a dividing factor, and SECONDLY, because they've kept the taqleed to fiqh rather than to drag it into other unrelated issues.

Respecting *real* scholars is very important. Even if you disagree with them.

Like I can disagree with things that say, Ayatullah Mutahhari, has said but still have a lot of respect for him as he was a pious, learned man.

However we are in the akhir uz zaman and ahadith warn us about people being outwardly the most respected and considered the most pious but they will actually be corrupt and evil.

I want my children to get the best of everything when it comes to their faith because they will be born in a time of deceit and corruption. And that includes a father who has got the right values and way of thinking.

In fact, most of the division seems to be on issues that aren't even from the furoo-ud-deen.

I could give you examples about how people's view on things affect their rulings but that will lead to fitna so I desist.

Salam.

Edited by Whizbee

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I am not talking about asking random people who their marja is. We are talking about marriage here and so you will inquire as to who the marja of your potential spouse is. We are talking about some serious issues here, things that can make or break your faith.

Again, ideally this wouldn't matter because the beliefs are not taken from the marja (or not supposed to be, at least). Of course you can ask who the marja is, but it won't necessarily give you a concrete conclusion on the beliefs of the person. Like I said, there are people who do not divide into ideological camps based on taqleed.

I could give you examples about how people's view on things affect their rulings but that will lead to fitna so I desist.

No what I mean is, a lot of the issues people squabble over are not directly related to fiqh, and even if they are it isn't really the fiqhi aspect that's being argued over. Furthermore, a lot of people manipulate the apparent rulings of the jurists to make them fit their own views.

In short what I'm saying is, despite the sad fact that a considerable amount of people seem to have distorted taqleed, there are still people who are trying to do things correctly, so determining a person's marja is not necessarily ALWAYS an indicator.

Edited by Asadollah

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* * * *

Why Shia women feel most loved and respected

Shia faith women feel most loved women in the world.

They feel most respected of all women.

Despite life's difficulties, women of Shia faith live the most fulfilled and happy lives.

They have least amount of depression. Why?

The answer is the attitude of men towards these women.

Shia Faith has given women what they were looking for.

Respect. Love. Dignity and Honour.

They receive genuine respect from believing men.

They also have perfect faith in God, and this satisfies their soul's spiritual needs.

Women of Shia Faith, being true believing ladies, they have recieved the Light of God.

This is a special blessing of our Holy Lady - Fatima Al Zahra. Peace be upon her, on her children, on her parents and on all those who respect her and follow her.

The Lady of Light has, through her love and admiration of women of Shia Faith, granted them truly honourable life.

These pious women feel that they are loved more than life itself. They feel cherished more than treasure.

They are nearest to God, and they are nearest to men's hearts.

Their sons revere them. Their husbands love them, and fulfil all their dreams. Their parents are proud to call them true daughters.

These graceful ladies protect their honour with clothes of purity. They speak justly. They strive to make better place. They show love fellow human beings. They act wisely. They are generous. They are patience in difficulty.

These believing ladies live with honour, and they leave with honour when their time comes.Their existence is one of joy and contentment. And in the next life, Lord's Angels bow before their feet.

They enter Garden of Paradise to be with Holy Ones for ever.

Women of Shia Faith are the greatest women in this world.

They are the honourable ladies whom God created.Whom men love to make their wives. Whom brothers love to call their sisters. Whom fathers are proud to call their daughters. And whom sons cherish as their mothers.

President declared before the world leaders at UN that our women are freest in the world. They are the most independent of all women.

Thank you, O Fatima Zahra, for granting grace and glory to women.

* * * *

By: Saklayn Shah

Manchester, U.K.

saklayn@yahoo.com

http://ukshias.blogspot.com/

---

Edited by malik

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(salam)

THANK YOU!! Finally someone who knows where I'm coming from! :cry:

I am totally at a loss of words at ur post. You've really explained my thoughts, Sis. I wanna know these things, before I give my consent. I mean, say I agree to marry this "Doctor" or whatever, and he ends up being someone who doesn't understand or even know the Rights of Women in Islam? I mean, there are SO many people out there, who are set in their Cultural ways and consider the women inferior to men. The other day I was talking to my father about the Rights of Women, and how a woman in Islam has the right to earn her own money and support her own family even after marriage. The husband should support her in this decision should she decide to take such a step, and if her parents need her help, then she has that right. My father's reply was that 'Yes, she can, but its not something that is really approved of or liked in our Culture." I was just talking generally, and wasn't really saying that I would keep my money seperate from my husbands, ever. But should the occasion ever arise that I had to do such a thing, would my husband understand? Would he allow me (culturally, since religiously he doesn't have to)?

I find it hard for guys to relate to something like this, because its not often that the guy has to change his ways after marriage. Its usually the girl that has to make herself accept her 'fate' as some call it, and 'live with it', because 'heaven forbid' that she should come back to her parents home divorced :rolleyes: . . .

EXACTLY!! It's so unfair. I mean, it's not like I'm going to be constantly disobeying my husband, but they put so much empahsis on it. These men don't just want a women who's not disobedient, the want a woman who's obedient 24/7, if she does one thing wrong, they begin to say that she has modern ideas and that she's hasn't been raised properly!

I had heard about something put in the marriage contract that says women can place the right to be able to divorce. So I was talking to my mom about it the other day, and she said that in her country, the girls that did that had done something inappropriate! Had she done something haram? She further said that if a girl chose properly, she wouldn't need it, but I believe in choosing properly as well as taking precaution.

They say we're "of western mentality" because we want to work, but we don't want to work, we just want a man who is accepting, who doesn't go crazy if he hears that I want my own bank account.

Most Muslim women don't want to work, or file for divorce, etc. they just want to know that their husband will want to accept that, its a test, unfortunatly in these "arranged marriages" its always the girl that loses. The man is the head of the house, and he cares less if the women has different beliefs, but for women, its different, but we have to "put up with it" and "be patient" because you can't expect the man to change, so you just have to get used to it!

I've wondered and wondered so much about this sis...and it's a relief to find that I'm not the only one. You shouldn't be thanking me, I should be thanking you! I've always wanted to start this topic but didn't know how to place it in words. May Allah find everyone the perfect spouse, and may Allah bless you for starting this topic! It's good to talk to someone who understands!

Isn't that the truth! If we learn something beneficial for our soul and spirit, but if its from a Sunni source (a friend, a site, whatever) . . . Haram! We can't step foot into a Sunni Masjid and we can't believe in Unity at all, because the word isn't even in the Islamic dictionary anymore. We have to do as we've been taught by our parents, who in turn learned it from their parents, and on and on. . . if we go out looking for our own take on things, we're labelled Anti-Shia :dry:

I follow the teachings of the Ahlul-Bayt (as), and will continue doing so Insha'Allah. I've only recently started to ponder over the why's and what's, after so many years of being told that 'this is the way we do it'.

I know! If you don't believe in cursing the the Sunni Sahaba, you don't love the ahululbayt, if you love your sunni friends, you're straying to their path....if we even begin to speak of "close-minded or extreme" we're labeled as "Western"--a term that they use as an insult! Dislike tatbeer, and you aren't passionate about Imam Hussain...why? Why is it that they pressure us so much to follow one creed, and if we don't follow it, we're not considered as good, or as Mumin, why is it that they pressure us soo very much to become like them, while if they had left us to our own, we might've even been better than them? They pressure us--and in doing so, they make us hate whatever it is they're teaching and whatever is related to it. Sometimes this pressure does way more harm than good, it doesn't give us room to grow at all, I'm not saying they should leave us at all times, but they should encourage us to follow our own instincts, and if we err, then they should be there to advise us, but not to disown you if you disagree with them!

I follow the teachings of the Ahlul-Bayt (as), and will continue doing so Insha'Allah. I've only recently started to ponder over the why's and what's, after so many years of being told that 'this is the way we do it'.

The amazing thing is not a lot of people take the time to learn what our Imams (as) have truly taught us. In the East, we are following our faith blindly. We don't take the time to understand what we are doing, what we are practicing, why we are practicing it. It's unfortunate.

God bless you!! I have discussed this over and over with my parents, but of course, born and raised in the East, they have different views.

"True worship is not to pray and to fast excessively, rather true worship is to ponder on God, the Most High." -Imam Ridha

Don't you feel that the Eastern Soceity--Iran, Iraq, Syria etc.---it raises the child in a way that it is near impossible for the child to become anything but a practicing Muslim? There is no diversity, your family is Muslim, your neighbors are Muslim, the whole City is Muslim, why should you be anying else? A Muslim girl goes out of her house, all her friends are wearing hijab, there has been no one to ask her why she is wearing it, why shouldnt' she wear it? Note that I am not praising the Western soceity who raises children to be immoral and indecent, but there has to be a moderate view of things--why does it have to be either East or West? Both soceities are wrong, there needs to be a moderate, diverse soceity, in which there is room for a child to choose when he grows up, he needs to know about the rest of the world, his mind will never grow trapped in one place! And with internet services not up to top shape in the East, the problem is only getting worse.

I wonder if people in the East, ever stop and think why they are Muslim, I am not saying they follow without proof, because they have hawzas and masjids, but they have never really had much thought into it, it is almost automatic. People who are raised there, including my parents, love it over there, and I can understand that, they feel the spirituality that goes on with the matams, and mosques, and Ayatullahs, but maybe it is too spiritual? Maybe people have forgotten, maybe they don't really know Islam...here my parents feel like strangers , they don't feel any spirituallity and they have gotten restless--all that I understand-- I have encouraged them to go back, it is better for them, but now that I know how they feel, why do I have to believe in the East as well? Why do I have to love it, and get married there, and live there, and raise children there! Why can't the understand I was raised in another time, in another place...

"Do not force your children to behave like you, for surely they have been created for a time which is different to your time."

"People resemble the people of their time more than the do their fathers."

-Imam Ali

We are leaving for Syria in around two weeks, please keep me in your prayers, it will be a very new experience.

Jazakum Allah Khair,

Wasalam

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