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Abdul-Rahman Brent

The Myth Of Unity Is Dangerous

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Salamu alaikum sadly to me it seems true Shi'a Islam is being followed less and less as some misguided Shi'a Muslims attempt to appease the majority sunnis in a misguided attempt at a myth of alleged "unity". We are the minority as true Shi'a Muslims, thus any attempt at fake "unity" will be us compromising our beliefs to fit in with the misguided majority (sunnis). Sadly, the rules on this forum reflect this. Apparently you can't say the truth about abu bakr, umar, uthman, aisha, etc. I wish to put the correct ending after all their names it's the same as the two letters short name for Los Angeles, not to get in trouble with unity mongering "mods"! We are just suppose to allegeldy bite our tongues on our OWN message boards! Some claim that we allegedly need "akhlaq" and they believe this means kissing up to sunnis. This is our board if any bakri comes here and speaks we have every right to say the truth even if it's hard on them. Taqiyyah is to protect one's life not to attempt to make fake alleged "unity" with the oppressive sunni majority. The threat of this fake "unity" is very clear in my eyes. As many Shi'a Muslims seem to be sadly moving to a sick hybrid with sunnism. This hybrid would take one outside the fold of true Shi'a Islam. Again as a famous hadith tells us "whoever refrains from cursing those whom Allah(SWT) himself has cursed, is themselves cursed". This is most important in regards to the 3 idols of Quraysh. I want to put the correct ending after this but the alleged "unity" myth mongering mods might not like that! So again what is the 2 word code for Los Angeles, and then you know what I mean!

Edited by Abdul-Rahman Brent

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ive said this all along...we dont need unity in the sense of some sick parody of an amalgamation of our paths, we just need everyone to stop killing each other and let the other side live in peace. apart from wahabbis. those guys need to go DOWN man.

we are muslims second and humans first, people would do well to remember that.

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Salaam allaikum,

There is no need for open cursing of any of the people you mentioned. Its unsanctioned behavior which our imams never did. If we are true shias we should follow in their example.

If someone dearly loved even a statute of a moon goddess you don't go and insult the moon goddess no matter how wrong they are. If your goal is to hurt them and make fun of them yes by all means. But if your intentions are pure and you wish to help them then you would be gentle and kind with them and slowly show them the way.

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First of all the Admins/Mods are individuals with different opinions. Hence, don't lump them up together.

Second, you can tell the truth about Abu Bakr etc., nobody is stopping you from doing that. The only restriction is that you don't curse them - that does not equal taqiyyah.

Third, I agree with you that theological unity etc. is a mirage and a myth. But secular cooperation is desirable.

The philosophy behind not cursing the idols of a people has been expressed in the Qur'an: Do not insult those [gods] to whom they pray lest they curse God wrongfully through lack of knowledge.' [Qur'an 6:108]

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Absolutely bro. It is also much deeper than that from what i understand. This is the quran after all.

Psychologically when you curse something someone loves then he will react with a knee-jerk reaction and either curse you, your loved ones, or at the very least reject your argument.

If you want someone to listen to what you have to say the very least is to respect his beliefs and be gentle with him.

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I just wanted to add, unity in the sense of being able to live side by side with each other. Not harming each others Masjids, etc. This is all fine and is unity I endorse but true religious "unity" I do not and never will endorse.

Just out of interest, can you answer the following questions, and I mean no harm by any of them.

1. are you asian?

2. do you agree with zanjeer?

3. have you had any formal islamic education?

4. would you call yourself a malang?

5. do you believe the quran is distorted?

6. do you think taqleed is wrong?

thanks bro, its just for my own interest. You can reply by PM if you want.

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it seems true Shi'a Islam is being followed less and less

Sorry , but what is the basis for this claim ??? If anything , it is sunnis who are becoming Shi'ites at an unprecedented rate , and not us Shi'ites giving up on our beliefs to appease anyone . So i suggest that you stop this hate-mongering against us Shi'ites and attempts to divide us and create in-fighting . That is the biggest crime anyone can commit ,worse than some alleged "appeasement" of Sunnis .

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Salamalaikum,

I agree with brother brent.

Amir-ul-Momineen as what will be the identity of a momin in future?

Amir-ul-Momineen as replied, ‘He would like to stay close to Vali Allah, he will establish friendship upon seeing him but would disassociate himself from the enemies of Allahswt even if they are his close relatives.

Abu Hamza narrates from Imam Mohammed Baqira.s. that Imam a.s. said, ‘Only that would worship Allah swt who acquires His swt. recognition (Marafat) but the one who does not recognise Allah swt, only humiliates himself while worshiping. I asked, what is the recognition of Allahswt? Imam a.s. replied, ‘Marafat’ of Allah swt is to substantiate Him and His Prophet a.s., love of Imam Ali as and acceptance of his master-ship (Immamat) along with guardianship of other (masoom) Imams as’ as well as rejection of their enemies. That’s how one gets to recognise Allahswt. (Usool-e-Kafi, vol. 2, Kitabul-Hujjat, tradition 1, pp. 30)

The Apostle of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "The best deeds are love for the sake of Allah and hate for the sake of Allah." He (PBUH&HF) also said in another Hadith: "Love for the sake of Allah is a duty (Faridha) and hate for the sake of Allah is a duty."

- Mustadrak al-Wasa'il, v12, p221, Hadith 13934, p226, Hadith 13948; Bihar al-Anwar, v66, p252, Hadith 32.

Imam al-Ridha said, "The perfection of religion is: accepting our Wilaya and keeping aloof from our enemy."

-Bihar al-Anwar, v27, p58, Hadith 19.

Abu Jarud narrated: About the verse "Allah has not assigned unto any man two hearts within his body (33:4)", Imam al-Sadiq said, Ali Ibn Abi Talib, peace be upon him said, "Allah does not gather our love and the love of our enemy within a human's heart. Certainly, Allah did not give two hearts to man ... Thus, he who (really) loves us will purify his love for us like the purification of gold by fire, which does not leave any dirt in it. Therefore, if you want to know how much you love us, you should test your heart; if you have shared the love our enemies in your heart, you are not of us and we are not of you. Allah is their enemy, and so are 'Gabriel and Michael, and Allah is the enemy of the disbelievers. (2:98)'"

- Tafsir, Ali Ibn Ibrahim al-Qummi, v2, pp 171-172; Bihar al-Anwar, v27, p51, Hadith 1.

Imam Baqir said: "... Is religion other than love and hate?" He then recited: "but Allah has made you love the Faith and has made it beautiful in your hearts, and He has made you hate disbelief, wickedness, and rebellion. Such indeed are those who grow in righteousness (49:7)", and "they love those who migrate towards them (59:9)", and "Say, If ye truly love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (3:31)"

- al-Tafsir, Furat al-Kufi, p428, Hadith 567; Mustadrak al-Wasa'il, v12, p226, Hadith 13950; Bihar al-Anwar, v65, p63, Hadith 114.

Imam al-Sadiq said:

"Whoever doubts in the disbelief of our enemies and those who have wronged us, is a disbeliever."

- Wasa'il al-Shia, v28, p345, Hadith 34923; Bihar al-Anwar, v27, p62.

Hanan Ibn Sadir narrated:

I asked Imam al-Baqir about those two. He replied: "O Aba al-Fadhl! Do not ask me about them for, by Allah, none among us (Ahlul-Bayt) would die except that he is displeased with those two. No day passes to us except that we are angry

with them. Indeed, they oppressed us and denied our rights and they were the first and foremost people who imposed themselves over us and opened the stream of injustice against us that does not stop until our Qa'im rises... By Allah! No affliction was set up against us and no trouble faced us Ahlul-Bayt except that those two founded its root. Thus upon those two 'are the curse of Allah and the angels and Momineen.

(2:161).'"

- al-Kafi, v8, p245, Hadith #340

- Bihar al-Anwar, v30, p269, Hadith #138

- Ta'wil al-Ayat al-Dhahira, p128, Hadith #4

A man asked Imam Zain Al-Abedin ( peace be upon him )About the prayer. He said what is its completeness ?

He (sws) said : the prayer for Muhammad ( peace be upon him ) and the Muhammad's Family ( peace be upon him ). What caused its acceptance? He (sws) said : Our (sws) Wilayat and renounce from our enemies.

ãÓÊÏÑß ÇáæÓÇÆá Vol-4 Page-112

Ya Ali Madad

Just out of interest, can you answer the following questions, and I mean no harm by any of them.

1. are you asian?

2. do you agree with zanjeer?

3. have you had any formal islamic education?

4. would you call yourself a malang?

5. do you believe the quran is distorted?

6. do you think taqleed is wrong?

thanks bro, its just for my own interest. You can reply by PM if you want.

This according to him means they are all ignorant. Atleast, we asians haven't left Imam Hussain a.s as your Iraqi Kafirs and Mushriks did in Kerbala. Instead, Indians came to help Imam Hussain a.s. and fought with Hazrath Mukhtar against Yazeed l.a.*Is that what Los Angeles is, If so I hate those who are Los Angeles.

Ya Ali Madad

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Just out of interest, can you answer the following questions, and I mean no harm by any of them.

1. are you asian?

2. do you agree with zanjeer?

3. have you had any formal islamic education?

4. would you call yourself a malang?

5. do you believe the quran is distorted?

6. do you think taqleed is wrong?

thanks bro, its just for my own interest. You can reply by PM if you want.

Salamu alaikum

1. No

2. Yes I agree with Zanjeer for a good link on this I recommend the Shirazi website shirazi.org.uk that has whole pages of info, hadith, etc. showing that Zanjeer is the Sunnah of the Holy Ahlul-Bayt(as).

3. No I'm a revert.

4. No, I simply call myself a Shi'a Muslim.

5. The Holy Qur'an has had it's meanings distorted and the true Tafseer is with Holy Imam al-Mahdi(as) who will bring it along with Mushaf Fatimah(as)

6. Taqleed is a difficult question, it could go either way as both have arguments. Usoolis say we need a Mujtahid to interpet Islamic sources for us. I agree that we need Sheikhs and teachers. However, Akhbaris have a point when saying that nothing a Mujtahid says should ever contradict a clear saying of the Holy Ahlul-Bayt(as). Also Akbharis make some good points about using "logic" too much. For example remember that even sunni sources tell us Imam Ali(as) said that if wudu was by what seemed most logical to us we'd wash the bottom of the feet as they get the most dirty. Yet Allah(SWT) in his infinite wisdom only wants us to wipe the top of the feet in Wudu. Also Akbharis have a strong case in showing that they were around longer then Usoolis. Famous scholars like Sheikh al-Kulani(ra), Sheikh Hur al-Amili(ra) who wrote the great "Wasail al-Shia", and tons others were clear Akhabri Shi'a Muslims and were against fatwas and people claiming to be Mujtahids for the Imam(as).

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Sorry , but what is the basis for this claim ??? If anything , it is sunnis who are becoming Shi'ites at an unprecedented rate , and not us Shi'ites giving up on our beliefs to appease anyone . So i suggest that you stop this hate-mongering against us Shi'ites and attempts to divide us and create in-fighting . That is the biggest crime anyone can commit ,worse than some alleged "appeasement" of Sunnis .

Shi'a Islam is standing with truth and standing against falsehood. This includes cursing the enemies of Allah(SWT) and the Holy Ahlul-Bayt(as). There are clear traditions from our Holy Imams(as) telling us that those 2 Abu Bakr and Umar are cursed. Yet whenever I read an alleged Shi'a Muslim/sunni dialogue it is mostly Shi'a Muslims going "oh abu bakr wasn't bad, he was a loyal sahabi and just was wrong when it came to taking caliphate away from Imam Ali(as)". This makes me want to vomit, we all know that even sunnis sources tell us abu bakr angered Lady Fatimah(as) and whoever does this angers the Prophet(SAWW) and Allah(SWT). We are to hate abu bakr and tell the truth about him, and as fars cursing there are tons of Ayahs in the Holy Qur'an were curses are sent. I think problems come from misunderstanding Taqiyyah, Taqiyyah should be done to protect our lives and property not to create fake "unity" with bakris. Not to mention on the Shi'a Muslims telling the sunni masses "oh Matam is just done by a few misguided people", etc. NO! Imam(as) clearly tells us Matam is Wajib. Go even to Shirazi website, shirazi.org.uk

It's better to have no bakris come to the truth of Shi'a Islam, if this allegedly acceptance of Shi'a Islam is really only some absurd Shi'a Muslim-bakri hybrid; you know those who claim to love both Imam Ali(as) and the tyrant killer abu bakr (again Los Angeles on him!). Or rephrase that even claim to have an ounce of respect for someone like abu bakr (Los Angeles on him)

Stand up against misguided bakrism.

Ya Ali Madad

Edited by Abdul-Rahman Brent

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Salamu alaikum

1. No

2. Yes I agree with Zanjeer for a good link on this I recommend the Shirazi website shirazi.org.uk that has whole pages of info, hadith, etc. showing that Zanjeer is the Sunnah of the Holy Ahlul-Bayt(as).

3. No I'm a revert.

4. No, I simply call myself a Shi'a Muslim.

5. The Holy Qur'an has had it's meanings distorted and the true Tafseer is with Holy Imam al-Mahdi(as) who will bring it along with Mushaf Fatimah(as)

6. Taqleed is a difficult question, it could go either way as both have arguments. Usoolis say we need a Mujtahid to interpet Islamic sources for us. I agree that we need Sheikhs and teachers. However, Akhbaris have a point when saying that nothing a Mujtahid says should ever contradict a clear saying of the Holy Ahlul-Bayt(as). Also Akbharis make some good points about using "logic" too much. For example remember that even sunni sources tell us Imam Ali(as) said that if wudu was by what seemed most logical to us we'd wash the bottom of the feet as they get the most dirty. Yet Allah(SWT) in his infinite wisdom only wants us to wipe the top of the feet in Wudu. Also Akbharis have a strong case in showing that they were around longer then Usoolis. Famous scholars like Sheikh al-Kulani(ra), Sheikh Hur al-Amili(ra) who wrote the great "Wasail al-Shia", and tons others were clear Akhabri Shi'a Muslims and were against fatwas and people claiming to be Mujtahids for the Imam(as).

I love your signature.

I request not to make this thread another Usooli Akhbari debate. I am sick of people who always want to debate on this however there are many things which can be though about, like the signature of brother brent.

Ya ALI you are my Rabb too and how can I do shirk in your Love and Itaat moula and How can I stop myself from disassociating your enemies. Is it not hypocrisy if I do that?

Ya Ali Madad

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Ghulat

The right word would be Mushrik if anyone calls anybody Rabb other than Allah swt however with marefath Imam Ali a.s. is Rabb. It is the terminology which is the cause of concern to you so expand your horizons and pray that Allah swt expands your breast for His swt's marefath.

Ya Ali Madad

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Shi'a Islam is standing with truth and standing against falsehood. This includes cursing the enemies of Allah(SWT) and the Holy Ahlul-Bayt(as).

I wonder where you came up with that bolded part from. I mean, I would understand if you just wanted to curse them, but to say that this is equivalent to "standing with truth and standing against falsehood" is ridiculous. Likewise, would you curse at a woman who does not wear a Hijab , and how is that likely to stand with the truth that the Hijab is a Wajib ?? Will the woman being cursed think that way ? In contrast, would that woman think about it if she was approached and guided to the right path with reasoning and even debate ? Which one is likely to lead to better results ? There is a difference between not cursing Sunnis and appeasing them!!! Know what you are talking about before you spew your fitna on here in the name of Shi'at Imam Ali (a.s) and the Infallible Imams (a.s.) !! :angry:

What you are doing , especially in this time , at the month of Ramadan , is a very wrong deed . May Allah forgive you and guide you to the right path .

Edited by AshrafN

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(salam)

(bismillah)

And (remember) when We took your covenant (saying): Shed not the blood of your people, nor turn out your own people from their dwellings. Then, (this) you ratified and (to this) you bear witness. (2:84)

(bismillah)

And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allâh (i.e. this Qur'ân), and be not divided among yourselves, and remember Allâh's Favour on you, for you were enemies one to another but He joined your hearts together, so that, by His Grace, you became brethren (in Islâmic Faith), and you were on the brink of a pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus Allâh makes His Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.,) clear to you, that you may be guided. (3:103)

(bismillah)

And be not as those who divided and differed among themselves after the clear proofs had come to them. It is they for whom there is an awful torment. (3:105)

(bismillah)

And Allâh did indeed fulfill His Promise to you when you were killing them (your enemy) with His Permission; until (the moment) you lost your courage and fell to disputing about the order, and disobeyed after He showed you (of the booty) which you love. Among you are some that desire this world and some that desire the Hereafter. Then He made you flee from them (your enemy), that He might test you. But surely, He forgave you, and Allâh is Most Gracious to the believers. (3:152)

(bismillah)

O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination. (4:59)

(bismillah)

As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou has no part in them in the least; their affair is with Allah: he will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did. (6:159)

(bismillah)

And He has united their (i.e. believers') hearts. If you had spent all that is in the earth, you could not have united their hearts, but Allâh has united them. Certainly He is All-Mighty, All-Wise.(8:63)

(bismillah)

The Unbelievers are protectors, one of another: unless you do this (protect one another), there would be tumult and oppression on earth, and great mischief." (8:73)

(bismillah)

Mankind were but one community (i.e. on one religion - Islâmic Monotheism), then they differed (later), and had not it been for a Word that went forth before from your Lord, it would have been settled between them regarding what they differed (10:19)

(bismillah)

The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him). (42:13)

(bismillah)

And verily this Ummah of yours is One Ummah and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore fear Me (and no other). (23:52)

800px-Flag_of_Taliban.svg.png

Edited by Qa'im

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the issue is quite simple.

ask yourself who do you aim to please in this life? Allah or people on Shichat.com?...if you wish to send Laanat...go for it...why do you have to write it? why not make a mental note when you type it?

at the end of the day if you are doing it out of genuine love (for the ahlul bayt) then Allah will know what you have done you dont need to show Shiachat.com members whther or not you feel that way.

problem solved.

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Unity doesnt mean compromise on principles......but on aggressive attitude towards one another.........!!!!!!

If that is controlled and you become a tolerant person.Unity shall prevail...

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"iraqi" shia? are you not asian?

thanks :D

FYI i am european, since i am Turk. Thank you again :!!!:

just because you were born in london dont make you european. you are a fob from iraq and forever be one. deal with it.

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Unity doesnt mean compromise on principles......but on aggressive attitude towards one another.........!!!!!!

If that is controlled and you become a tolerant person.Unity shall prevail...

Yes, the alleged "unity" that some people fantasize about would entail compromising with sunnis. This is the simple reality of dealing with a minority versus majority relationship, even though the miniority is in the truth here.

Ghulat

I take your charge of Ghulat as a badge of honor. Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib(as) is the Rabb of the Momineen! Imam Ali(as) is Islam, Imam Ali(as) is Salat, Imam Ali(as) is Hajj, Imam Ali(as) is Ramadan, Imam Ali(as) is Zakat, etc. Ya Rabb Ali(as) Madad!

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Yes, the alleged "unity" that some people fantasize about would entail compromising with sunnis. This is the simple reality of dealing with a minority versus majority relationship, even though the miniority is in the truth here

There is a thing called being sensible as well......this rule is irrespective of you being a minority or majority.....

In some places Shias are majority and most places sunnis are ....ok......

If you are in the majority place why do you want to create problems for the people in minority........

for if you are in minority place I am sure you wont like this thing to happen.

You need to view the broader scope of things

And what do you mean by calling Imam Ali(a.s) as Rabb can you please explain...!!!!thanks

Edited by rambo007

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It is our duty as Shias to curse the enemies of Allah (swt) and the Ahlul Bayt (as), but I think that intentionally pinpointing people for cursing, especially ones that are revered by our Sunni brothers/sisters, does more harm than good. I think we should simply curse enemies of Ahlul Bayt in the most general of terms possible, without mentioning specific people. Allah knows who they are anyway, so it should all work out in the end.

To simply say "May Allah curse all enemies of the Ahlul Bayt" is sufficient for me. Bringing up the names of people and cursing them in a non constructive way only leads to fitna.

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