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avjar7

42:52

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And thus have We, by Our Command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and what was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will; and verily thou dost guide (men) to the Straight Way,- 42:52

Please discuss in light of the Shia belief that Prophets are infallible and born as believers.

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isnt this proof FOR the shia stance? :huh:

we already know that whatever the prophets said or did was by the command of Allah. theres loads of other ayats that show this, check it out:

[34.50] Say: If I err, I err only against my own soul, and if I follow a right direction, it is because of what my Lord reveals to me; surely He is Hearing, Nigh.

does that mean if the prophet was on the right path (which he was), it was because of allahs revelations? and if the prophet was on the same path as ALL prophets. then they recieved revelation also?

[53.2] Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray;

[53.3] Nor does he speak out of desire.

[53.4] It is naught but revelation that is revealed,

[53.5] The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him,

[53.6] The Lord of Strength; so he attained completion,

[53.7] And he is in the highest part of the horizon.

[53.8] Then he drew near, then he bowed

[53.9] So he was the measure of two bows or closer still.

[53.10] And He revealed to His servant what He revealed.

does that leave anyone in any doubt? how about this:

[55.1] The Beneficent God,

[55.2] Taught the Quran.

[55.3] He created man,

[55.4] Taught him the mode of expression.

doesnt that say that it was Allah who was the teacher of the prophets?

how about this:

[2.78] And there arc among them illiterates who know not the Book but only lies, and they do but conjecture.

so is this Allah saying those who have NOT been taught by Allah, only speak lies and conjecture? (*cough* kulafa e rashideen *cough*)

is there any doubt that Allah is the teacher of the prophets? now look at the ayat again and its surrounding ones (which are talking about hazrat musa) in light of these ayats:

[42:51] And it is not for any mortal that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind a veil, or by sending a messenger and revealing by His permission what He pleases; surely He is High, Wise.

[42:52] And thus did We reveal to you an inspired book by Our command. You did not know what the Book was, nor (what) the faith (was),but We made it a light, guiding thereby whom We please of Our servants; and most surely you show the way to the right path:

[42:53] The path of Allah, Whose is whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth; now surely to Allah do all affairs eventually come.

so my conclusion is that these ayats are simply backing up the other ones, in that the prophets were not taught, nor did they know anything EXCEPT what Allah commanded, if they talked or acted outside the command of Allah, then they would have been lying and using conjecture, which as we know is impossible for a divinely inspired prophet of Allah.

what do you think?

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Apparently, the entire Qur`an was revealed to the Prophet [sAWS] all in one go from the beginning..

Proof?

Qur'an was revealed in stages to the Prophet (S):

The Qur'an in Islam - Allamah Tabataba'i

  • That the chapters and verses were not revealed in one place but rather in stages over a period of twenty-three years during the Prophet's mission is authenticated not only by historical evidence but also from evidence from the various verses.

To the OP, you may want to look at this thread: http://www.aimislam.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5092

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And thus have We, by Our Command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and what was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will; and verily thou dost guide (men) to the Straight Way,- 42:52

Please discuss in light of the Shia belief that Prophets are infallible and born as believers.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 42:52]

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Whatever the Holy Prophet did or said was as directed by Allah. He never let his own desire or inclination give any other colour to the divine plan. Refer to Saba: 50. All his deeds were in the highest degree of submission to the will of Allah as mentioned in Najm: 2 to 10. Rahman: 1 to 4 confirm that he did not learn anything from any mortal but was taught and educated by Allah Himself. Refer to Baqarah: 78. So there is no doubt that whatever Allah willed His prophet put into practice, as also indicated in Qasas: 56.

His likes and dislikes were a true mirror of Allah's likes and dislikes. Refer to Anfal: 17.

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Proof?

Qur'an was revealed in stages to the Prophet (S):

The Qur'an in Islam - Allamah Tabataba'i

  • That the chapters and verses were not revealed in one place but rather in stages over a period of twenty-three years during the Prophet's mission is authenticated not only by historical evidence but also from evidence from the various verses.

To the OP, you may want to look at this thread: http://www.aimislam.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5092

Actually bro Persian Shah was the correct one here.

I believe Allamah Tabataba'i was referring to the ayas being revealed to the Muslims in stages, not Rasoul (pbuh) ?!?!!?

The tafsir of suratil qadr - [LINK]

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

The night of qadr is in the month of Ramadan. See Baqarah: 185 and Dukhan: 1 to 3 wherein it is stated that the whole Quran was revealed in this night. The descension of the angels and the spirit is a regular occurrence since the creation of Allah till the day of resurrection, and the place of descent is a thoroughly purified heart (Ahzab: 33). Therefore there should be such a purified heart in existence at all times.

Imam Muhammad bin Ali al Baqir said:

"Present this surah as a decisive argument for the continuity of the divine vicegerency on the earth."

The 19th, 21st, 23rd, 25th, 27th or 29th night of Ramadan is the night of qadr.

The whole Quran was revealed to the Holy Prophet in this night but he used to recite or convey to the people only such passages or verses as he was commanded by Allah through Jibrail. It is known as gradual revelation. Refer to the commentary of Baqarah: 2 and Aqa Puya's essay "The Genuineness of the Holy Quran".

.... and Baqarah 2:185 "The month of Ramadan, in which was sent down the Qur’an ..." from Al-Mizan can be found here - [LINK]

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^Okay, that makes sense; but what about the fact that when certain events would occur, it is said the Jibra`il would appear to the Prophet (S) and reveal the verses at that moment?

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Thanks for stepping in for me Ya Aba. I was writing that message just on my way out, so didn't have time to back it up..

^Okay, that makes sense; but what about the fact that when certain events would occur, it is said the Jibra`il would appear to the Prophet (S) and reveal the verses at that moment?

I don't see how that would neglect the fact that it was revealed entirely to the Prophet [sAWS] first. The appearance of Jibraa`il [AS] relates only to when a certain ayah should have been revealed to the Ummah. Also, if you had read all of Ya Aba's post properly:

The whole Quran was revealed to the Holy Prophet in this night but he used to recite or convey to the people only such passages or verses as he was commanded by Allah through Jibrail. It is known as gradual revelation.

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^Okay, that makes sense; but what about the fact that when certain events would occur, it is said the Jibra`il would appear to the Prophet (S) and reveal the verses at that moment?
mmmmm take ayat at-tatheer (33:33) as a simple example sis. Was it only when Malik jibra'eel (as) descended and made the revelation (Hadith Al-Kisaa') that the Ahlul Bayt (as) became tahireen? Or were they already pure before that aya was revealed during the event of the cloak?

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mmmmm take ayat at-tatheer (33:33) as a simple example sis. Was it only when Malik jibra'eel (as) descended and made the revelation (Hadith Al-Kisaa') that the Ahlul Bayt (as) became tahireen? Or were they already pure before that aya was revealed during the event of the cloak?

Thanks. That example explains.

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Seems the topic has diverged, but regards to the question of whether the Quran was sent down all at once or not, there is some difference of views on this. Shaykh Saduq evidently believed that it had, as he says in his I`tiqad:

CHAPTER 31

THE BELIEF CONCERNING THE REVELATION OF THE QUR'AN IN THE NIGHT OF POWER

Says the Shaykh Abu Ja'far: Our belief concerning this is that the Qur'an was sent down in one lot, in the month of Ramadan, on the Night of Power (laylatu'l-qadr) (first) to al-Baytu'l-Ma'mur.And then it was revealed in the space of twenty years from the Baytu'l-Ma'mur (to the Prophet). And verily Allah the Glorious and Mighty bestowed knowledge in its totality on His Prophet, on whom be the blessings of Allah and His peace, and then said to him: "... And hasten not (0 Muhammad) with the Qur'an ere its revelation hath been perfected unto thee, and say: My Lord! Increase me in knowledge" [20, 113], and He said: "Stir not thy tongue herewith to hasten it. Lo! upon Us (resteth) the putting together thereof and the reading thereof. So when We read it, follow thou its reading. Then lo! upon Us (resteth) the explanation thereof" [75,16-20].

http://www.sicm.org.uk/index.php?page=suduk/Suduk31

Shaykh Mufid however in his Tashih of said work disagrees, saying that Shaykh Saduq has relied on a single hadith for this, and that as such is does necessitate knowledge or action based on this. He also points out how the Quran will refer to events in time, such as æó ÞÇáõæÇ áóæú ÔÇÁó ÇáÑøóÍúãäõ ãÇ ÚóÈóÏúäÇåõãú ãÇ áóåõãú ÈöÐáößó ãöäú Úöáúãò which is a report of a past event "(they) said" which would not be allowed had it been revealed prior to them having said it (that is, prior to their saying it it would be something in the future, i.e. they will say, not they said). Or for instance, he cites ÞóÏú ÓóãöÚó Çááøóåõ Þóæúáó ÇáøóÊöí ÊõÌÇÏöáõßó Ýöí ÒóæúÌöåÇ which refers to an event that happened in Madina, so how could it be revealed in Makkah.

As to the report of it descending on Laylat ul-Qadr, it says it might be interpreted to mean that what had been revealed up till then would descend, and that this continued until the passing of the Prophet (pbuh) . That it would all be completely revealed though all at once as such though, he considers it distant from the zhahir of the Quran, the mutawatir narrations, and the ijma` of the `ulama.

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http://al-shia.com/html/ara/books/lib-aqae.../t04.htm#link42

Edited by macisaac

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As to the report of it descending on Laylat ul-Qadr, it says it might be interpreted to mean that what had been revealed up till then would descend, and that this continued until the passing of the Prophet (pbuh) . That it would all be completely revealed though all at once as such though, he considers it distant from the zhahir of the Quran, the mutawatir narrations, and the ijma` of the `ulama.

Yeah, that is what Allamah Tabataba`i has apparently explained in his tafseer in the link given by the bro. He explains that the Reality of the Qur'an revealed on the night of Qadr is different from the apparent Qur'an which was gradually revealed to the Prophet (S) in stages over a period of time.

Edited by SpIzo

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The point of posting the ayat was that it seems to intimate that prior to the revelation of the Qur'an the Prophet did not know what full faith was. It indicates he lacked full knowledge or experience in faith.

And thus have We, by Our Command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and what was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will; and verily thou dost guide (men) to the Straight Way,- 42:52

This would contradict the Shia belief that Prophets are believers from birth.

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^Did you go through the thread posted? Because it addresses this question as to what exactly 'faith' implies in that verse.

http://www.aimislam.com/forums/index.php?s...ost&p=27117

it is important to note that the verse starts with a conjunction (æßÐáß) that is not as explicit in the English translation. The verse in question is clearly related to the previous verse and both should be read together to attain the full meaning of the verse in question.

And it is not for any mortal that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind a veil, or by sending a messenger and revealing by His permission what He pleases; surely He is High, Wise.

And thus did We reveal to you an inspired book by Our command. You did not know what the Book was, nor (what) the faith (was), but We made it a light, guiding thereby whom We please of Our servants; and most surely you show the way to the right path: - Holy Qur'an, Ch. 42: Vs. 51-52

The verses are clearly speaking about Revelation. In this context, the Book is in reference to the Qur'an and Faith is in reference to the detailed injunctions and practices of Islam [iman or Faith is used in the context of acts in 2:143], which through the phrasing of the verse makes it evident that the teachings that the Prophet (s) preached were not his but rather they were revelations from the Almighty. The Holy Qur'an and the religion of Islam in its entirety, is thus through this verse, established to be Divine.

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